Top Mac Mini Vs. bottom iMac

[joesenior91]

Currently i'm saving up to buy a 24" iMac, should get one about the end of august. I've been waiting for about 9 months so i'll be very happy to get it. In those 9 months i've been using my mum's iBook G4, which is good, but it's too slow, and i need a computer of my own. I've also managed to convince my brother that apple's the way forward, so now he want's the family PC to be upgraded to an iMac, but mum reckons the Mac Mini is a better option because it's cheaper. So i have a few questions;

1. If they go for a mac mini what's a good screen going to cost, i live in the UK so that's gonna need to be UK specific.

2. what are the chances of apple introducing something between the mac mini and the imac sometime in 2007

3. The options they're considering are either a mac mini with these specs;

1gb ram
120gb hard drive
wired apple keyboard & mouse
2.0 ghz c2d processor
screen
overall about £650 with a screen

or the bottom of the range imac which has the same processor, memory and keyboard, but a bigger hard drive. this is for £800

is the imac worth the extra £150 just for a slightly larger hard drive, better graphics and the all-in-one-ness it offers. the computer will only be used for email, internet, music, that sort of thing, nothing to taxing

Cheers, Joe

[Jimmdean]

I'd say it is worth it.

CPU power is a wash - they're both good enough. The big difference is the size and speed of the hard drive. A 7200-RPM drive kills a 5400-RPM for your basic Media tasks. The dedicated GPU is a big upgrade too - any dedicated GPU! The GMA950 is what it is, but it is the Mini's worst feature, bar none!

[FJ218700]

I was doing the same comparisons too.

for your uses,the mini's graphics is probably sufficient.

Much of the decision may come down to how good your current monitor already is.

[Cave Man]

The Mini's a great machine and would work well for the needs you describe. I have two, one for my day-to-day work (including processing of RAW image files with Aperture) and the other as a dedicated home theater machine. Each has the 1.66 gHz core duo processor. The hardest work is by the HT machine; it can decode and play back 1080i content from Eye TV Hybrid and H.264 files without dropping frames, so that should tell you how beefy it is.

[joesenior91]

we'd need to buy a screen, where do you recommended i can get a good one in the UK. Otherwise i'm leaning towards the mini

Cheers, Joe

[Eidorian]

I suggest getting the lower end Mac mini if you can and use an external FireWire DVD burner.

[allornothing]

hello! so glad i've found this thread - i'm in *exactly* the same situation as you.

i'm a heavy software user and have used all kinds of OSs. i HAVE to get a mac again as i sold my last one (PPC processor - too sloooow) but find i hate Vista (unstable, incompatible...for now) and linux is great, but has no decent media software (and you do have to be a geek to solve ANY big problems)... but onto your topic:

As you've probably seen, Apple have TODAY just released a new iMac and MacMini! price reduction in the more powerful mac mini (£550->£500) and better processor, and a slimmer iMac with better specs.

***Before i say any more PLEASE wait until late Oct 2007 before buying any Mac. Leopard (new OS X) will be coming out and it looks AMAZING.***

If you get a iMac, benefits:
"Jimmdean" said the most useful comments - so read his comment again. I've got a new (PC) laptop that i've noticed although has high ram/processor, you'll still notice a performace improvement with a faster hard drive speed - as its the slowest device in your computer and your computer will run only as fast as the slowest device. however, i suggest trying out both iMac and MacMini in store and see what you think.

iMac looks REALLY great now with high-gloss screen, but if you were to buy a mac mini you'd be looking at:
tft Monitor prices:
20" or 22" for £150-250 (prices vary wildly on dabs.com and ebuyer.com)
24" - not many out on sale. i think they're realising that most people buy 20" or 22". you'd currenlty pay £350+ for 24". ridiculous!

And also bear in mind; playing games on a mac mini will be awful, but pretty ok on the iMac. due, obviously, to the dedicated graphics on iMac and useful-only-for-office-based-stuff integrated graphics on MacMini.

Something else to consider: if you buy a mac mini with external display, you can use that display in future for other PCs. you can't with an iMac.


I personally had my heart set on a mac mini for the longest time, but having seen the new aluminium iMac in mac stores today, i'm changing my mind and i'm searching the internet to try to see the advantages of each!!

hope this post gave you something to think about:
mac mini - cute, bad for gaming, useful as you separate the display, slightly better on the value:cost ratio.
iMac - great looking, minimalist, can't use the display for any other PC (technically you can but with specialist complicated software, but physically you can't), costs on average an extra £100 than the mini/tft combo, but you have better hard drive, graphics and compactness on your desk.

anyone else's thoughts would be helpful to me too! :)
Si
p.s by the way, make a note for the future: download VMware Fusion when you get a mac. very very very useful for running windows applications on a mac, without rebooting. reviews show it to be better than "Parallels" ..for now anyway.

[Cave Man]

Something else to consider: if you buy a mac mini with external display, you can use that display in future for other PCs. you can't with an iMac.

What are you talking about? Sure you can use it with an iMac. As long as it has VGA or DVI connection, it'll work just fine with an iMac.

[Eidorian]

What are you talking about? Sure you can use it with an iMac. As long as it has VGA or DVI connection, it'll work just fine with an iMac.They're saying that an external display would be reusable unlike the iMac's built-in one.

[doublebullout]

Wirelessly posted (Treo 650: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/hspr-H102; Blazer/4.0) 16;320x320)

Just ordered a 2ghz Mini from Powermax with Parallels 3 pre-installed for free (after rebate). I gave the Mini serious consideration for the first time ever because of the speed bump. Can't wait to get it!

[allornothing]

Can't wait to get it!
Can you let us know how you get on with it after you've got it?

I've tried them out in stores, and can't work whether photoshop is supposed to take as long as it does (30seconds) to load on such a supposed quick system (which is what i've tried out in store :apple:)!

[nlivo]

DO NOT GET THE MAC MINI!!!!! JUST DON'T!!! you will regret it!! the iMac is an amazing machine which you will love if you get it!!!

[shikimo]

DO NOT GET THE MAC MINI!!!!! JUST DON'T!!! you will regret it!! the iMac is an amazing machine which you will love if you get it!!!

That comment is going to require some explanation. :D Did you have a bad experience? It seems like most people adore their minis, maybe even a little too much from a mental health perspective. From where springs your unbridled détestation of the poor little minis??

[Sean Dempsey]

Can you let us know how you get on with it after you've got it?

I've tried them out in stores, and can't work whether photoshop is supposed to take as long as it does (30seconds) to load on such a supposed quick system (which is what i've tried out in store :apple:)!

The first time you open photoshop on a computer like a Mini, yeah, it will take 30 seconds or more. Close the program, and open it again, it will be MUCH quicker.

Just now, I opened CS3 photoshop on my Macbook CoreDuo 2.0ghz with 2 gigs of ram, 5200rpm drive, so it's slower than a new Mini. Since photoshop had already been opened (and now cached) since my last reboot, it took exactly 3 seconds.

I can't imagine the mini being any slower than a Coreduo macbook, it's probably alot faster.

[aliasfox]

As soon as you want an iMac like display, the value in the Mac Mini disappears. At least in the US, most 20 or 22" PVA displays (which is the kind that the iMac uses, last I heard) will run at least $250 - $300, which is almost the price difference between the uplevel mini and the entry level iMac.

Also, 3.5" HDs (as in the iMac) are significantly faster. Running the same OS, my PowerBook boots significantly faster using an external 3.5" 7200 RPM drive than the internal 2.5" 5400 RPM drive. Most of what you're waiting on for your computer is the hard drive - opening programs and files. Fast hard drives are the most overlooked and one of the most important aspects of computer performance. Also, with at least 3 people in the house (you, your brother, yourself), you'll fill up 120 GB worth of space in no time.

[doublebullout]

Wirelessly posted (Treo 650: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/hspr-H102; Blazer/4.0) 16;320x320)

I appreciate the concerns, but really it's OK. This was not an uninformed or impulse decision. Have a little faith, folks.

[Cassie]

I suggest the mini, because it sounds like you dont need an iMac, and on the plus side the keyboard mouse and monitor can be used with a future computer.

[joesenior91]

i think i'm leaning towards the iMac. The hard drive is something i complete over looked. all i ever thought was about the size. also the graphics card is a factor. But i think one of the main factors is the 'wow factor' an imac has, the mini seems to me like a descision i'd regret, when you sompare the two side by side the imac looks so cool! is that a good enough reason?

cheers, Joe

[jf8]

As soon as you want an iMac like display, the value in the Mac Mini disappears. At least in the US, most 20 or 22" PVA displays (which is the kind that the iMac uses, last I heard) will run at least $250 - $300, which is almost the price difference between the uplevel mini and the entry level iMac.

the 20" iMac is TN :(

it hasn't been proven yet, but if the 24" really has 178 deg viewing angles it should be S-IPS

[Aea]

My choice would be the iMac, not that great of a difference for an all-in-one system. I personally think the Mac Mini is just a waste of money.

[aliasfox]

the 20" iMac is TN :(

it hasn't been proven yet, but if the 24" really has 178 deg viewing angles it should be S-IPS

Really? Apple's putting a TN display in the 20"?

I always thought the 20" and 24" iMacs had PVA displays, sourced from the same place Dell gets their 20" and 24" panels - most likely Samsung or LG/Phillips. The 24" shouldn't be S-IPS - the only S-IPS displays on the market in that range are 23", not 24".

Maybe it changed this generation, hence the lower specs on the 20" versus the previous generation. My $200 22" Westinghouse monitor is a TN display. Hooked up to my Dual 1GHz Quicksilver it's beautiful straight on, but looks horrible more than 15 degrees off angle vertically, which is something you don't find in a PVA (or IPS) display.

[Fuzzy Orange]

I have the bottom end iMac.... (the $1200 one)
It is quite fast. As long as you aren't doing anything too GPU intensive (the graphics card sucks), it's great.

[Pigumon]

Hi, I checked out the mac mini on the store site and it had a little NEW circle next to it. But I see no mention of what is knew on Apple's site or even Mac Rumor's site.

Someone in this thread mentioned a speed boost and price drop. Are these true? If the mini's speed has been upgraded, im ready to buy one today!

EDIT: I just found a tiny mention of it

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/apple-quietly-updates-mac-minis/

I do believe I will finally buy a mini!

[d_saum]

Hi, I checked out the mac mini on the store site and it had a little NEW circle next to it. But I see no mention of what is knew on Apple's site or even Mac Rumor's site.

Someone in this thread mentioned a speed boost and price drop. Are these true? If the mini's speed has been upgraded, im ready to buy one today!

EDIT: I just found a tiny mention of it

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/apple-quietly-updates-mac-minis/

I do believe I will finally buy a mini!

I've been waiting to buy a mini for about 5 months, and when they finally refreshed them, I went to the apple store here and picked one up (I was apparently the first guy in NC to get one! Woohoo). But man... I gotta tell ya.. I LOVE IT!!! It looks awesome in my armoire thing, and my friends are all BLOWN away by front row. It was totally worth it. Oh and I'm leaving in about 10 minutes to go buy a 42 inch Vizio plasma to replace my 36 inch tube tv. :D

[joelw87]

i saw a good deal in currys the other day, a samsung 17: widescreen monitor, LCD. for £114.99 is silver and compact so it will look alright with a mini.

[WildPalms]

i saw a good deal in currys the other day, a samsung 17: widescreen monitor, LCD. for £114.99 is silver and compact so it will look alright with a mini.

Dude...seriously....just get an Apple cinema display... you wont look back.

[shikimo]

i saw a good deal in currys the other day, a samsung 17: widescreen monitor, LCD. for £114.99 is silver and compact so it will look alright with a mini.

I know stuff in England is spendy, but still: 114 pounds for a 17" monitor? How much more would you have to pay for a 19 or 20-inch? Here on the continent the 19s start around 170 Euros, including TVA.

[WizardHunt]

hello! so glad i've found this thread - i'm in *exactly* the same situation as you.


As you've probably seen, Apple have TODAY just released a new iMac and MacMini! price reduction in the more powerful mac mini (£550->£500) and better processor, and a slimmer iMac with better specs.

***Before i say any more PLEASE wait until late Oct 2007 before buying any Mac. Leopard (new OS X) will be coming out and it looks AMAZING.***

If you get a iMac, benefits:
"Jimmdean" said the most useful comments - so read his comment again. I've got a new (PC) laptop that i've noticed although has high ram/processor, you'll still notice a performace improvement with a faster hard drive speed - as its the slowest device in your computer and your computer will run only as fast as the slowest device. however, i suggest trying out both iMac and MacMini in store and see what you think.

iMac looks REALLY great now with high-gloss screen, but if you were to buy a mac mini you'd be looking at:
tft Monitor prices:
20" or 22" for £150-250 (prices vary wildly on dabs.com and ebuyer.com)
24" - not many out on sale. i think they're realising that most people buy 20" or 22". you'd currenlty pay £350+ for 24". ridiculous!

And also bear in mind; playing games on a mac mini will be awful, but pretty ok on the iMac. due, obviously, to the dedicated graphics on iMac and useful-only-for-office-based-stuff integrated graphics on MacMini.

Something else to consider: if you buy a mac mini with external display, you can use that display in future for other PCs. you can't with an iMac.


I personally had my heart set on a mac mini for the longest time, but having seen the new aluminium iMac in mac stores today, i'm changing my mind and i'm searching the internet to try to see the advantages of each!!

hope this post gave you something to think about:
mac mini - cute, bad for gaming, useful as you separate the display, slightly better on the value:cost ratio.
iMac - great looking, minimalist, can't use the display for any other PC (technically you can but with specialist complicated software, but physically you can't), costs on average an extra £100 than the mini/tft combo, but you have better hard drive, graphics and compactness on your desk.

anyone else's thoughts would be helpful to me too! :)
Si
p.s by the way, make a note for the future: download VMware Fusion when you get a mac. very very very useful for running windows applications on a mac, without rebooting. reviews show it to be better than "Parallels" ..for now anyway.


So I am in a similar situation, I wanted to go with a imac, but I don't have the $4000.00 to fix it up like I want for a 24 inch one. However if I fix up a mac mini for $1200.00 fully loaded then that is a big difference. I want to do video editing on mine, and I was wondering if this is the way to go to start with, I could always give it to my son later on if I needed to upgrade to the imac. What do you think? I need all the feedback I can get. :)

[iAlice]

Hi WizardHunt,

Here's my 2 cents:

After debating buying the nice but expensive iMac, I bought the top-of-the-line mac mini at the online Apple store last week, for $1,024.00.

The mini exceeds my expectations, and I'm having a great time with it. It's my first Intel Mac, and is much faster than the G4 1.67 PowerBook I've been using.

I even got a great printer for virtually free after the $100 rebate (I recommend the HP PHOTOSMART C4280 All-In-One: awesome color printer/copier/scanner!).

Eventually, I plan to get either an iMac, a MacPro, or the next headless desktop Apple puts out. Then my mini will still be very useful as a dining room computer or as a TV server or whatever. I certainly don't regret buying the mini now and I'm sure I won't later, either.

You probably can't go wrong with an iMac, but if you want to save some money at this point, I can recommend the mini. I am even playing CIV4 on it, a graphically intensive game, although everyone says minis ain't got game.

Mine sure does!! ;)

Best wishes,
--Alice in beautiful Portland, OR

[WizardHunt]

Hi WizardHunt,

Here's my 2 cents:

After debating buying the nice but expensive iMac, I bought the top-of-the-line mac mini at the online Apple store last week, for $1,024.00.

The mini exceeds my expectations, and I'm having a great time with it. It's my first Intel Mac, and is much faster than the G4 1.67 PowerBook I've been using.

I even got a great printer for virtually free after the $100 rebate (I recommend the HP PHOTOSMART C4280 All-In-One: awesome color printer/copier/scanner!).

Eventually, I plan to get either an iMac, a MacPro, or the next headless desktop Apple puts out. Then my mini will still be very useful as a dining room computer or as a TV server or whatever. I certainly don't regret buying the mini now and I'm sure I won't later, either.

You probably can't go wrong with an iMac, but if you want to save some money at this point, I can recommend the mini. I am even playing CIV4 on it, a graphically intensive game, although everyone says minis ain't got game.

Mine sure does!! ;)

Best wishes,
--Alice in beautiful Portland, OR

Thank you Alice for your reply. It is very helpful. I am going to buy the Mac Mini 2.0 version with 2.0 GB ram , 160 GB harddrive, with DVD rewritable. I think based upon all I been hearing it will work great. I hear that you get ilife 08 with it free. That is a great add on. I will buy the apple care too along wtih .mac so I should be all set. Thanks for your comments.

[WizardHunt]

Hi WizardHunt,

Here's my 2 cents:

After debating buying the nice but expensive iMac, I bought the top-of-the-line mac mini at the online Apple store last week, for $1,024.00.

The mini exceeds my expectations, and I'm having a great time with it. It's my first Intel Mac, and is much faster than the G4 1.67 PowerBook I've been using.

I even got a great printer for virtually free after the $100 rebate (I recommend the HP PHOTOSMART C4280 All-In-One: awesome color printer/copier/scanner!).

Eventually, I plan to get either an iMac, a MacPro, or the next headless desktop Apple puts out. Then my mini will still be very useful as a dining room computer or as a TV server or whatever. I certainly don't regret buying the mini now and I'm sure I won't later, either.

You probably can't go wrong with an iMac, but if you want to save some money at this point, I can recommend the mini. I am even playing CIV4 on it, a graphically intensive game, although everyone says minis ain't got game.

Mine sure does!! ;)

Best wishes,
--Alice in beautiful Portland, OR

How long did it take to get your Mac Mini? What drive option did you get?
It says 1 to 3 business days before shipment. I am just wondering if it took the whole 3 business days before they even shipped it out? Please include your shipping time so I can get some idea how long I will have to wait. I will be ordering the 799.00 version with 160 Gb hard drive 2 GB ram, and so on.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

[quadgirl]

The Mac mini now has a decent Core 2 Duo in it. It's fast. Unless you're gaming (and seriously, why game on a Mac?), the gma950 is fine and is Core Image/Video capable and can play Full HD videos. As for the hard drive, if you want decent speeds, get the biggest 5400 rpm drive you can - the more recent large capacity s-ata laptop drives are good performers. If you want a bit extra (and it really won't feel much difference) go for a 7200 rpm drive. I know this is not a custom option, but the minis aren't difficult to open. The other option of course is to get a matching firewire drive and boot from that - it's fast and gives you loads more space for a cheap price.

At the end of the day, the mini is an amzing piece of kit. It also has one big advantage of the iMac - your choice of screen. If you have a cinema display, a decent Dell or Samsung, it's going to look better than the 20" iMac screen with better viewing angles.

[iAlice]

How long did it take to get your Mac Mini? What drive option did you get?
It says 1 to 3 business days before shipment. I am just wondering if it took the whole 3 business days before they even shipped it out? Please include your shipping time so I can get some idea how long I will have to wait. I will be ordering the 799.00 version with 160 Gb hard drive 2 GB ram, and so on.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

I got the 160 GB internal hard drive, the exact same mini you are getting it sounds like.

But since it is 5400 RPM (slow) I also ordered an external hard drive (7200 RPM) to go with it from Other World Computing:
750 GB NewerTech miniStack FireWire/USB Hub V2, $303.94 shipped.

I am booting from the miniStack (after re-partitioning and installing Mac OS) through firewire; it's faster that way than with the mini's internal drive. Another plus is that the miniStack gives you more powered FW and USB outlets.

I ordered my mini on the Apple website on 8/8, it shipped on 8/9, and arrived at my Portland home on 8/13. The miniStack also came very quickly, fits under the mini, and they look good together and take up very little space.

You're right, the mini comes with iLife '08. :)

By the way, instead of paying for .Mac right away, why not take the free 3-month test drive, then pay for a year at a discount?

Cheers,
--Alice in OR

[marcg007]

So I am in a similar situation, I wanted to go with a imac, but I don't have the $4000.00 to fix it up like I want for a 24 inch one. However if I fix up a mac mini for $1200.00 fully loaded then that is a big difference. I want to do video editing on mine, and I was wondering if this is the way to go to start with, I could always give it to my son later on if I needed to upgrade to the imac. What do you think? I need all the feedback I can get. :)

How did you get a $4000.00 total for a 24inch iMac? Is that American dollars? Even with Apples obscene prices for memory and putting in a TB HD, it doesn't come to $4000.00. If you want to max out the RAM, order 2x2GB RAM from OWC and it won't cost you anywhere near that amount.

Also, if you are a student or associated with an educational institution, you can get a halfway decent discount on the hardware and software.

[WizardHunt]

How did you get a $4000.00 total for a 24inch iMac? Is that American dollars? Even with Apples obscene prices for memory and putting in a TB HD, it doesn't come to $4000.00. If you want to max out the RAM, order 2x2GB RAM from OWC and it won't cost you anywhere near that amount.

Also, if you are a student or associated with an educational institution, you can get a halfway decent discount on the hardware and software.

24 inch imac
4 GB ram
1 TB Hard Drive
Final Cut software ($299)
.mac
apple care
all comes to $4016.00

Yes I know I could save a bit by doing 3rd party ram but I heard people had trouble with that.

[WizardHunt]

I got the 160 GB internal hard drive, the exact same mini you are getting it sounds like.

But since it is 5400 RPM (slow) I also ordered an external hard drive (7200 RPM) to go with it from Other World Computing:
750 GB NewerTech miniStack FireWire/USB Hub V2, $303.94 shipped.

I am booting from the miniStack (after re-partitioning and installing Mac OS) through firewire; it's faster that way than with the mini's internal drive. Another plus is that the miniStack gives you more powered FW and USB outlets.


Cheers,
--Alice in OR

So let me get this straight, you hooked up the mini stack and partitioned the drive in the mini stack and reinstalled the OS/X making it your boot drive, and then you reformated your drive inside the original mini? Can you give the exact steps to do what you did, so that I understand well. I can do it on a pc but mac is new to me and you threw me when you said you did thru firewire, not sure what you meant there. Also let me know how you told the Mac Mini to boot from the external mini stack instead of the drive inside the mini? Thanks

[Cave Man]

So let me get this straight, you hooked up the mini stack and partitioned the drive in the mini stack and reinstalled the OS/X making it your boot drive, and then you reformated your drive inside the original mini? Can you give the exact steps to do what you did, so that I understand well.

1. Boot your mini off its internal drive.
2. Download the free program Carbon Copy Cloner and install it.
3. Plug in and power up your MiniStack (make sure the toggle switch is set to Firwire so it will boot from FW instead of USB2).
4. Launch Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility and format the MiniStack drive and set the number and sizes of partitions as you desire. Quit Disk Utility when done.
5. Launch Carbon Copy Cloner and clone your internal Mini's boot drive to the desired partition on the MiniStack. Make sure you set the "make bootable" option. This will take some time, depending on the size of the contents on your hard drive.
6. When done, launch System Preferences from the blue Apple. Select the Startup Disk pane and choose the bootable partion that you just cloned.
7. Restart your Mac Mini - it should boot from the MiniStack.
8. Once rebooted, launch Disk Utility and format your Mini's internal hard drive.

That's it! This is how I did mine, except that my MiniStack's drive is a single partition (now up to 500 gb) and my internal 100 gig drive has two partitions - a Mac OS install and a Win XP install.

[WizardHunt]

1. Boot your mini off its internal drive.
2. Download the free program Carbon Copy Cloner and install it.
3. Plug in and power up your MiniStack (make sure the toggle switch is set to Firwire so it will boot from FW instead of USB2).
4. Launch Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility and format the MiniStack drive and set the number and sizes of partitions as you desire. Quit Disk Utility when done.
5. Launch Carbon Copy Cloner and clone your internal Mini's boot drive to the desired partition on the MiniStack. Make sure you set the "make bootable" option. This will take some time, depending on the size of the contents on your hard drive.
6. When done, launch System Preferences from the blue Apple. Select the Startup Disk pane and choose the bootable partion that you just cloned.
7. Restart your Mac Mini - it should boot from the MiniStack.
8. Once rebooted, launch Disk Utility and format your Mini's internal hard drive.

That's it! This is how I did mine, except that my MiniStack's drive is a single partition (now up to 500 gb) and my internal 100 gig drive has two partitions - a Mac OS install and a Win XP install.

Cool Thanks for the info. I will try that.

[iAlice]

So let me get this straight, you hooked up the mini stack and partitioned the drive in the mini stack and reinstalled the OS/X making it your boot drive, and then you reformated your drive inside the original mini? Can you give the exact steps to do what you did, so that I understand well. I can do it on a pc but mac is new to me and you threw me when you said you did thru firewire, not sure what you meant there. Also let me know how you told the Mac Mini to boot from the external mini stack instead of the drive inside the mini? Thanks

Cave Man did a great job of explaining this process, thanks Cave Man!

Let me borrow and personalize your steps to show WizardHunt my slightly different (but not better) version of this process below. By the way, the reason the MiniStack repartition is necessary is that otherwise the mini OS does not recognize it as a bootable hardrive, and you get "You cannot install Mac OS X on this volume..." alert in the Installer.

1. Boot your mini off its internal drive.
2. Plug in, connect to mini through the Firewire port, and power up your MiniStack (make sure the toggle switch is set to Firewire so it will boot from FW instead of USB2).
3. Copy the software pre-installed on your MiniStack to your mini internal hard drive.
4. Launch Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility.
5. Read the following Apple page and follow its instructions carefully:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303220
Using Disk Utility, format the MiniStack drive to GUID partition scheme and set the number and sizes of partitions you desire (one partition is also an option). Quit Disk Utility when done.
6. Insert the OS install disk that came with the mini, follow the instructions to install Mac OS to the MiniStack drive.
7. When done, restart your Mac Mini -- it might already boot from the MiniStack (mine did). If not, launch System Preferences from the blue Apple. Select the Startup Disk pane and choose the bootable partition that you just formatted.
8. Once rebooted, copy the MiniStack software back over from your Mini's internal hard drive.

Same general idea as Cave Man's steps, not better, just how I did it.

I do strongly recommend reading the Apple page that I mentioned:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303220

Enjoy,
--Alice

[Cave Man]

By the way, the reason the MiniStack repartition is necessary is that otherwise the mini OS does not recognize it as a bootable hardrive, and you get "You cannot install Mac OS X on this volume..." alert in the Installer.

Hmm, that's peculiar. I've not encountered this problem on a freshly-formatted firewire hard drive.

[iAlice]

Hmm, that's peculiar. I've not encountered this problem on a freshly-formatted firewire hard drive.

Apparently it was due to the fact that it is an Intel-based mini:

"If you're trying to install Mac OS X on a hard disk that you've connected to your Intel-based Mac, you may see this alert in Installer and be unable to select the disk for installation:
'You cannot install Mac OS X on this volume. Mac OS X cannot start up from this volume.'"
--quoted from article at
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303220

[Cave Man]

"If you're trying to install Mac OS X on a hard disk that you've connected to your Intel-based Mac, you may see this alert...

I guess the operative word is "may". I had to do a fresh install 3 weeks ago because my friggin' Western Digital hard drive failed. (I'm 0/2 on those drives; and sticking to Seagate from now on.) I was able to reinstall from my Mac Mini installer DVD directly onto my MiniStack.

[WizardHunt]

1. Boot your mini off its internal drive.
2. Plug in, connect to mini through the Firewire port, and power up your MiniStack (make sure the toggle switch is set to Firewire so it will boot from FW instead of USB2).
3. Copy the software pre-installed on your MiniStack to your mini internal hard drive.
4. Launch Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility.
5. Read the following Apple page and follow its instructions carefully:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303220
Using Disk Utility, format the MiniStack drive to GUID partition scheme and set the number and sizes of partitions you desire (one partition is also an option). Quit Disk Utility when done.
6. Insert the OS install disk that came with the mini, follow the instructions to install Mac OS to the MiniStack drive.
7. When done, restart your Mac Mini -- it might already boot from the MiniStack (mine did). If not, launch System Preferences from the blue Apple. Select the Startup Disk pane and choose the bootable partition that you just formatted.
8. Once rebooted, copy the MiniStack software back over from your Mini's internal hard drive.


So Alice, after you copy the miniStack software back over from the Mini's internal hard drive, then you reformat the internal drive after one is sure it will boot up normally right? Also when copying the software from the MiniStacker did you use Carbon Copy Cloner to do the copying? Sorry for all the questions but I am very new to mac.

Also curious did you use one partition? I usually do. This is all great information for me as I now know that I will get my Mac Mini on Friday.
I ordered it Tuesday and it will be delivered on Friday. I get my MiniStacker on Thursday so I should be all set. I only got a 500 GB version instead of your 750 GB. Thanks for all the help on this subject.

By the way I am open to any opinions that read this. So don't be afraid to reply.

[iAlice]

So Alice, after you copy the miniStack software back over from the Mini's internal hard drive, then you reformat the internal drive after one is sure it will boot up normally right? Also when copying the software from the MiniStacker did you use Carbon Copy Cloner to do the copying? Sorry for all the questions but I am very new to mac.

Also curious did you use one partition? I usually do. This is all great information for me as I now know that I will get my Mac Mini on Friday.
I ordered it Tuesday and it will be delivered on Friday. I get my MiniStacker on Thursday so I should be all set. I only got a 500 GB version instead of your 750 GB. Thanks for all the help on this subject.

By the way I am open to any opinions that read this. So don't be afraid to reply.
Hi WizardHunt,

In my case:

1) I did not reformat the internal hard drive that came with my mac mini, because I saw no need to. I think people do this to have more than one partition, like to boot up from Windows which is not an attractive option for me. I have also read that some people always reformat new drives because of corruption that can occur during the jostling of shipping the drive to them. But I did not reformat my mini drive and am not aware of any problems.

2) I did not use Carbon Copy Cloner (I do not have or use that software) to do the copying of the bundled software from the MiniStack to the mini internal drive. I just dragged the software bundle icon from the MiniStack in one finder window into the mini drive in another finder window and it copied automatically, extremely easy.

3) Yes, I just set up one partition in my new MiniStack hard drive. But if you plan to boot up from Windows, then of course you need more than one partition. Not needing Windows, I do not see the need for more than one partition, speaking for myself.

4) About sleeping the mini:
You can easily sleep the mini by touching the power button on the back of it briefly (if you hold it down for 5+ seconds I think it turns off). My favorite way to sleep it, since the back of my mini is a little hard to get to (see cart description below) is to hold down on the pause/play button for several seconds on the little remote that came with the mini. That way, I can turn off my wireless keyboard and mouse, then sleep the mini. I keep my mini sleeping, not off, when not in use.

Glad to be of help. It's exciting that your mini's coming tomorrow! Please share your thoughts, impressions, and maybe some pictures of your little guy. I'll be watching for your report.

My mini is happily set up now in my dining room, where I can sit at the big table and look out over my low 20" HP lcd onto my ever-changing garden. I have a rollable cart on my right with my new "free after rebate" HP C4280 All-in-One on top, the mini on top of the MiniStack on the next shelf, another external hard drive on the shelf below that, with all the power bricks neatly on the shelves. I have everything, including a cordless phone, plugged into a surge-protected multi-outlet strip at the bottom of the cart.

I am using last year's wireless Apple keyboard and mouse, so the only cables on my dining table (besides a small phone cable) are 2 from the LCD monitor and one small one from the 2 speakers on either side of my monitor, bundled together with a Velcro strip. It's all very tidy, thanks to many Velcro-strip and short twist-wire holders keeping all the long cables folded neatly near their units at the cart.

I have the rest of the dining table to spread my project on, whether it's work documents or vinyl records and a new record player with built-in pre-amp that I'm using to digitize all my lovely old records (that's why I went with the 750GB MiniStack, each record takes at least 500MB of space).

Looking forward to hearing your mini experiences.

Cheers,
--Alice

[WizardHunt]

Hi WizardHunt,

In my case:

1) I did not reformat the internal hard drive that came with my mac mini, because I saw no need to. I think people do this to have more than one partition, like to boot up from Windows which is not an attractive option for me. I have also read that some people always reformat new drives because of corruption that can occur during the jostling of shipping the drive to them. But I did not reformat my mini drive and am not aware of any problems.
Ok, you say that you did not reformat the internal mini drive. How does the Apple software know which drive to boot from? And 2nd, how much space does the os/x take up on the drive?


2) I did not use Carbon Copy Cloner (I do not have or use that software) to do the copying of the bundled software from the MiniStack to the mini internal drive. I just dragged the software bundle icon from the MiniStack in one finder window into the mini drive in another finder window and it copied automatically, extremely easy.
That is cool. I am glad that I can drag and drop rather than install more software to do that.


3) Yes, I just set up one partition in my new MiniStack hard drive. But if you plan to boot up from Windows, then of course you need more than one partition. Not needing Windows, I do not see the need for more than one partition, speaking for myself.
I do not plan to install windows on my Mac Mini, no way, I am staying away from Windows.


4) About sleeping the mini:
You can easily sleep the mini by touching the power button on the back of it briefly (if you hold it down for 5+ seconds I think it turns off). My favorite way to sleep it, since the back of my mini is a little hard to get to (see cart description below) is to hold down on the pause/play button for several seconds on the little remote that came with the mini. That way, I can turn off my wireless keyboard and mouse, then sleep the mini. I keep my mini sleeping, not off, when not in use.
That is good information to know. Thanks for telling me.


Glad to be of help. It's exciting that your mini's coming tomorrow! Please share your thoughts, impressions, and maybe some pictures of your little guy. I'll be watching for your report.
You can count on me sending pictures, I am excited to get my Mac Mini. I messed up however and ordered a wireless mouse when I thought I ordered a wired mouse. I called apple care and asked them if I use a apple wired keyboard which I ordered the older model from Amazon.com would it work with the wireless mouse. They said once I get it configured I would have no problem. I might have to use another wired mouse to set up the blue tooth but after that I should not have any problem.


My mini is happily set up now in my dining room, where I can sit at the big table and look out over my low 20" HP lcd onto my ever-changing garden. I have a rollable cart on my right with my new "free after rebate" HP C4280 All-in-One on top, the mini on top of the MiniStack on the next shelf, another external hard drive on the shelf below that, with all the power bricks neatly on the shelves. I have everything, including a cordless phone, plugged into a surge-protected multi-outlet strip at the bottom of the cart.
My MiniStacker with the 500 GB drive came today. On the Apple site it says prepared for shipment so it should ship today, and I ordered overnight shipping so I should get it on Friday. After I get it set up I will place some pictures here for all to see.


Looking forward to hearing your mini experiences.

Cheers,
--Alice[/QUOTE]

[iAlice]

Ok, you say that you did not reformat the internal mini drive. How does the Apple software know which drive to boot from? And 2nd, how much space does the os/x take up on the drive?

You can count on me sending pictures, I am excited to get my Mac Mini. I messed up however and ordered a wireless mouse when I thought I ordered a wired mouse. I called apple care and asked them if I use a apple wired keyboard which I ordered the older model from Amazon.com would it work with the wireless mouse. They said once I get it configured I would have no problem. I might have to use another wired mouse to set up the blue tooth but after that I should not have any problem.

Here goes:
1) First, Cave Man already explained how to set which drive to boot from:
"6. When done, launch System Preferences from the blue Apple. Select the Startup Disk pane and choose the bootable partition that you just cloned."
In my case, after I installed MacOS on my MiniStack, my mini automatically booted from it, which is what I wanted and saved me the selection step. But selecting or changing the preferred boot drive is extremely easy to do, just follow Cave Man's directions.

2) I don't know exactly how much space the os/x takes up on the drive, but I will tell you my MiniStack's status now:
my MiniStack capacity = 750 GB
available now after OS install, retaining MiniStack's bundled software (2GB), and a few of my other applications = 679 GB
therefore total used now = 71 GB
Sorry this isn't what you asked for exactly but it gives you some idea.

3) As for the wireless mouse, I was wondering how I would be able to communicate with my mini the first time I turned it on, but the mini is smart enough to deal with the mouse issue immediately on boot up. Basically, it shows you a picture of 2 mice, one wired and 1 wireless, and graphically encourages you to either plug in (through USB) your wired mouse or put in batteries and turn on your wireless mouse. In my case, after a few seconds it detected my wireless mouse, then my wireless keyboard, and it was (boom) up and ready to go!

I just hope that you love the mini as much as I do; it would be a bummer if after all of this you didn't like it!;)

Have fun,
--Alice

[WizardHunt]

Here goes:

I just hope that you love the mini as much as I do; it would be a bummer if after all of this you didn't like it!;)

Have fun,
--Alice

Hi Alice,
I am sure that I will love my new Mac Mini. I really want to let you and Cave Man know that I appreciate all the help you guys gave me. Especially you Alice. I am still waiting for it to ship but hopefully it will still go out tonight on Federal Express and I will still get it on Friday so I can tinker with it all Weekend Long!!! :D I will send photos once I get it all set up. Check back later on in the weekend. Take Care.

[Cave Man]

I really want to let you and Cave Man know that I appreciate all the help you guys gave me. Especially you Alice.

Man, now I know how those Geiko commercial guys feel...:(

[FatSweatyBlldog]

Man, now I know how those Geiko commercial guys feel...:(

Don't sweat it, man. It's probably not that you're a Cave Man, it's just that you're not a woman. ;)

[WizardHunt]

Man, now I know how those Geiko commercial guys feel...:(

Oh Don't worry Cave Man, I have a great deal of respect for you. Don't be so hard on yourself, it was just that Alice wrote more than you did. ;) However I love the way your responded to that.

[Cave Man]

Yeah, I know - she spent a lot more time with you then I did. I just can't resist throwing a little humor in now and then.

Keep us posted on your progression with the mini.

[WizardHunt]

Yeah, I know - she spent a lot more time with you then I did. I just can't resist throwing a little humor in now and then.

Keep us posted on your progression with the mini.

Hi Cave Man and iAlice,
I got my Mac Mini on Friday and I have been busy all weekend playing with it and transferring files from my pc to my new Mac. It is so cool. Very happy with it. Here are a couple of pics of my setup. One is of the complete set up where I am still transferring files so the pc is in the picture as well. but if you look closely you will see my Mac Mini with the MiniStacker underneath it. I love it. Very Happy with it.

[WizardHunt]

1. Boot your mini off its internal drive.
2. Download the free program Carbon Copy Cloner and install it.
3. Plug in and power up your MiniStack (make sure the toggle switch is set to Firwire so it will boot from FW instead of USB2).
4. Launch Applications/Utilities/Disk Utility and format the MiniStack drive and set the number and sizes of partitions as you desire. Quit Disk Utility when done.
5. Launch Carbon Copy Cloner and clone your internal Mini's boot drive to the desired partition on the MiniStack. Make sure you set the "make bootable" option. This will take some time, depending on the size of the contents on your hard drive.
6. When done, launch System Preferences from the blue Apple. Select the Startup Disk pane and choose the bootable partion that you just cloned.
7. Restart your Mac Mini - it should boot from the MiniStack.
8. Once rebooted, launch Disk Utility and format your Mini's internal hard drive.

That's it! This is how I did mine, except that my MiniStack's drive is a single partition (now up to 500 gb) and my internal 100 gig drive has two partitions - a Mac OS install and a Win XP install.

Cave Man, question for you.
How much faster is it to do the above moving the main operating system from the internal drive to the MiniStacker.. I mean will I really notice a difference in performance? Or will it be just a little bit?

[Cave Man]

Cave Man, question for you.
How much faster is it to do the above moving the main operating system from the internal drive to the MiniStacker.. I mean will I really notice a difference in performance? Or will it be just a little bit?

Carbon Copy Cloner will be much faster than a fresh install followed by Migration Assistant, if that's what you mean. If you're referring to FW400/7200 rpm vs. the 5400 rpm internal SATA drive, I'm not certain. But I can tell you that my Mini performs very well using the FW400 boot drive from the MiniStack.

[WizardHunt]

Carbon Copy Cloner will be much faster than a fresh install followed by Migration Assistant, if that's what you mean. If you're referring to FW400/7200 rpm vs. the 5400 rpm internal SATA drive, I'm not certain. But I can tell you that my Mini performs very well using the FW400 boot drive from the MiniStack.

Hmmm, it is hard for me to believe that going through a fire wire connection as a boot drive is faster than a built in hardware based boot drive even though the firewire based one is 7200 rpm and the internal is 5400 rpm SATA.

I am just wondering if it is worth it for me to move to my Ministacker the whole thing on my internal drive rather than just use my ministacker as a data drive like a source to keep my movies that I would be editing and so on. What do you think?

[Cave Man]

I don't know if it's faster, but it is "fast-enough" for my purposes. You have a larger internal drive (mine's 80 gigs and partitioned for OS X and Win XP). You'd have to experiment a bit.

[iAlice]

Hi Cave Man and iAlice,
I got my Mac Mini on Friday and I have been busy all weekend playing with it and transferring files from my pc to my new Mac. It is so cool. Very happy with it. Here are a couple of pics of my setup. One is of the complete set up where I am still transferring files so the pc is in the picture as well. but if you look closely you will see my Mac Mini with the MiniStacker underneath it. I love it. Very Happy with it.

Hi WizardHunt (and Cave Man!), thanks for the photos of your set up! Love it, especially how the Mini and its Stack are so hard to find in the picture. Mine seems surprisingly small and very quiet, too. I would have commented sooner, but I've been on a trip along the beautiful Columbia River.

Now I'm busy making a trip movie using iMovie 6 HD on my mini; I ordered Final Cut Express today though because I'm not that thrilled with iMovie 6 HD (bugs and crashes and slow rendering). First I tried the new iMovie 7 but even though the skimming is cool and it's fast at rendering, it offers almost no control over things like audio clips, so I had to start again in iMovie 6 HD. At least I'll be able to import my iMovie 6 HD projects into Final Cut Express directly, whereas I was unable to import my iMovie 7 files directly into iMovie 6 HD. What we need is a stable, full-featured iMovie 8 that combines the best of both versions!

Still love my mini, plus I ordered the 16G "WiPod" (my favorite name for the new iPod Touch), and can't wait to get my hands on that, too!

Have fun, guys,
--Alice

[shoulin333]

the computer will only be used for email, internet, music, that sort of thing, nothing to taxing

Cheers, Joe

umm then why not just get the base model mac mini, and a nicer screen?