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Ball
Aug 8, 2007, 09:30 AM
My sister sent me a G3 Ibook that won't turn on. I was told that the problem may be the logic board or a CMOS battery. When I say it won't come on I mean nothing happens not even a sound. The main battery is fine.

Here is what I cannot figure out. I can't figure out how to open it up to get to the logic board I take out the screws and the back/bottom will not come off. I don't want to force it because it seems kinda flimsy.

There are no Mac Repair shops near me and I don't know if it is worth putting any money into it although I would like a Mac so I can use Garageband.

How do I take this thing apart?



shu82
Aug 8, 2007, 09:40 AM
http://www.ifixit.com

Ball
Aug 8, 2007, 10:40 AM
http://www.ifixit.com

There is nothing on that site that tells how to open it up. I have removed all the screws on the case and I still will not come apart.

Are the little feet on the bottom also screws?

Artful Dodger
Aug 8, 2007, 11:06 AM
Yes to the feet as you need to pull them out/off but be carful doing so. Also I think there is a screw where the battery is but I don't remember off hand.

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 11:12 AM
Taking the bottom case off is the biggest pain about servicing an iBook. It does require a bit of brute force, especially on the back edge.

Just be very careful around the DC-in board.

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 11:14 AM
Yes to the feet as you need to pull them out/off but be carful doing so. Also I think there is a screw where the battery is but I don't remember off hand.

There are three inside the battery compartment. One for the top-case. Two for the bottom-case.

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 11:16 AM
Really, though, if you're having this much trouble with the case, maybe servicing this thing yourself isn't the best idea.

I do this for a living, and find servicing an iBook to be, somewhat, challenging.

Ball
Aug 8, 2007, 11:16 AM
Thank you Thank you Thank You

Artful Dodger
Aug 8, 2007, 11:36 AM
There are three inside the battery compartment. One for the top-case. Two for the bottom-case.

Thanks as it took me some time to find the 12" iBook I took apart and counted the screw holes in that area. I'm glad I put everything in separate bags and labeled them to cut down on the stress :p

Yeah if your not sure or have mixed feelings about doing this I'd think twice and get some help or have someone do it for you. Just don't lose any screws and take it easy when putting them back in.
Good lucků;)

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 11:50 AM
Thanks as it took me some time to find the 12" iBook I took apart and counted the screw holes in that area.

I remembered off the top of my head.

How pathetic is that? Unfortunately, I could probably dismantle a G3 iBook with my eyes closed. I've taken these things apart more that I'd care to remember.

Ball
Aug 8, 2007, 12:08 PM
I have it opened now and I am going to try that quick fix of putting some business cards under the GPU. I hear that it becomes de-soldered.

Also, if the motherboard is fried how do I identify the speed 600 700 ect..?

I don't want to put much money into this because it's old and there are no Mac repair people nearby. The closest one charges 90 dollars just to look at it. I think a new board is 250 bucks.

I really want a Mac but I can't afford a G5 and I am a bit leary of the G4 logic board problems. I have read there is a 15% failure rate. Is this true?

shu82
Aug 8, 2007, 12:11 PM
It is an art. I can break down and reassemble a g3 ibook blind folded after drinking a pint of whiskey in under 5 minutes. (that would make a good youtube video;) )The first time is really hard. My room mate thought I was crazy.

There are screws underneath the rubber feet. Also there are 2 screws in the battery bay. After they are all out you can pop it open with a butter knife or whatever you have.

I would recommend humming the Macgyver theme song while you do it.

Make sure you're careful. Dont do it on carpet, and ground yourself during the process.

shu82
Aug 8, 2007, 12:15 PM
I have it opened now and I am going to try that quick fix of putting some business cards under the GPU. I hear that it becomes de-soldered.

Also, if the motherboard is fried how do I identify the speed 600 700 ect..?

I don't want to put much money into this because it's old and there are no Mac repair people nearby. The closest one charges 90 dollars just to look at it. I think a new board is 250 bucks.

I really want a Mac but I can't afford a G5 and I am a bit leary of the G4 logic board problems. I have read there is a 15% failure rate. Is this true?

If the Motherboard is fried it doesn't matter what speed it is. Also a cigarette box folded in half usually worked good for me.

You are rolling the dice on any ibook when it comes to logic boards. You just have to live with it/fix it. My wife loves hers.

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 12:22 PM
I have it opened now and I am going to try that quick fix of putting some business cards under the GPU. I hear that it becomes de-soldered.

That fix will not solve your problem. That solves a very specific problem that causes a loss of video, and it doesn't do it very well, I might add.

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 12:24 PM
I really want a Mac but I can't afford a G5 and I am a bit leary of the G4 logic board problems. I have read there is a 15% failure rate. Is this true?

For the G3, I'd say 15% is being a bit conservative.

Ball
Aug 8, 2007, 12:28 PM
If the Motherboard is fried it doesn't matter what speed it is. Also a cigarette box folded in half usually worked good for me.

You are rolling the dice on any ibook when it comes to logic boards. You just have to live with it/fix it. My wife loves hers.

I am only guessing that it is the logic board. When I try turning it on nothing happens at all. No light no sounds. The battery and the power supply are good.

Someone told me it could be the CMOS battery. Does this machine even have one and if so where would it be?

Why won't any thing not even the fan come one?

shu82
Aug 8, 2007, 12:35 PM
http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1329865&page=1
this guy had the same problem

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 12:36 PM
I am only guessing that it is the logic board. When I try turning it on nothing happens at all. No light no sounds. The battery and the power supply are good.

Someone told me it could be the CMOS battery. Does this machine even have one and if so where would it be?

Why won't any thing not even the fan come one?

Does the charger light up when plugged into the book?

FYI, it's not going to be the CMOS battery.

Ball
Aug 8, 2007, 01:00 PM
Does the charger light up when plugged into the book?

FYI, it's not going to be the CMOS battery.

Yep the charger lights up and the battery has juice.

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 01:21 PM
Yep the charger lights up and the battery has juice.

If it's as dead as you're saying, chances are, the only thing that will fix that iBook will be a replacement logicboard.

Ball
Aug 8, 2007, 01:42 PM
If it's as dead as you're saying, chances are, the only thing that will fix that iBook will be a replacement logicboard.

I did shim the GPU and no luck.

I read to try this: Hold down command, option, p & r keys while restarting.

This may sound dumb but which key is the command option? The key next to the control key is missing.

I'm thinking this may be a lost cause. If the logic board is fried it is not worth fixing it. Right?

It was also sugested that I leave the battery out for a week or two.

Quote from another G3 user "I had the same problem with an ibook G3 800Mhz dual USB.
It worked fine and then one day it did not want to start. I did a PMU reset but nothing. It would power up after sitting there for two days or a week. Then I took the ibook apart to check the logic board and I notice that there's a battery (like the CMOS battery on PC) soldered on motherboard. I noticed that there was some leaked black goo. I took the black plastic covering the battery off and cleaned up the goo and added solder to the points. After doing this the ibook started right up with the power adapter. THen attached battery and started to charge. I left it on all night and never turned off. Still working now. Hope this helps a little. "

I'm thinking that when that capacitor/battery on the logic board loses its charge perhaps the logic board will reset??? Does that make sense?

barr08
Aug 8, 2007, 01:46 PM
This is an incredibly common problem. There are two viable solutions, short of replacing your LB, and neither are permanent. The first is the one you are trying, wedging something in there, the second is soldering it.

I reccomend just selling it whole, or parting it out to sell it.

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 01:53 PM
This is an incredibly common problem. There are two viable solutions, short of replacing your LB, and neither are permanent. The first is the one you are trying, wedging something in there, the second is soldering it.

I reccomend just selling it whole, or parting it out to sell it.

The problem he is describing is not the common iBook, not video problem. He can shim it all he wants. It simply does not apply.

His iBook is completely dead. No chime. No power. No nothing.

Typically, iBooks without video, are actually working iBooks. If you hook it up to an external monitor, you'll see it's booting and running OSX just like any other Mac. It just can't display the video on the LCD.

Ball
Aug 8, 2007, 02:03 PM
The problem he is describing is not the common iBook, not video problem. He can shim it all he wants. It simply does not apply.

His iBook is completely dead. No chime. No power. No nothing.

Typically, iBooks without video, are actually working iBooks. If you hook it up to an external monitor, you'll see it's booting and running OSX just like any other Mac. It just can't display the video on the LCD.

That's it. It is completely dead. FOr all I know the logic board could be OK.

Does anyone know what the possible causes are for it just being dead. The battery and the power supply are fine. Is there a fuse? I doubt is it could be the switch. They rarely fail. I'm thinking it may be something simple... like a fuse?

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 02:10 PM
That's it. It is completely dead. FOr all I know the logic board could be OK.

Does anyone know what the possible causes are for it just being dead. The battery and the power supply are fine. Is there a fuse? I doubt is it could be the switch. They rarely fail. I'm thinking it may be something simple... like a fuse?

The only other thing would be the DC in Board, but if it were that, the iBook would run on battery power.

I think you may be out of luck. It really sounds like the logic board to me.

barr08
Aug 8, 2007, 02:11 PM
I remain unconvinced.

Did you try hooking it up to an external LCD?

I would still bet this is a LB problem. The symptons for this vary.

Ball
Aug 8, 2007, 02:21 PM
The only other thing would be the DC in Board, but if it were that, the iBook would run on battery power.

I think you may be out of luck. It really sounds like the logic board to me.

So then if it is the logic board there will be no fan chimes lights or anything?

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 02:27 PM
I remain unconvinced.

Did you try hooking it up to an external LCD?

I would still bet this is a LB problem. The symptons for this vary.

I never said it wasn't a logicboard problem. I've said over and over again that replacing the logicboard will fix it.

I said it wasn't the classic "no video" problem, and based on what he's described, it isn't.

The symptoms for the no video problem don't vary. It is a specific problem with specific symptoms, and specific solutions.

When it comes down to it, replacing the logicboard is the solution for most iBook problems. It, basically, is the computer.

shu82
Aug 8, 2007, 02:31 PM
I know this sound stupid but could there be a short in the power button? I would check that first. Cleaning up the internal battery may help.

Wasn't there a fix for old G3 powerbooks where you remove the internal battery, boot it, and then insert it to be charged?

barr08
Aug 8, 2007, 02:32 PM
I never said it wasn't a logicboard problem. I've said over and over again that replacing the logicboard will fix it.

I said it wasn't the classic "no video" problem, and based on what he's described, it isn't.

The symptoms for the no video problem don't vary. It is a specific problem with specific symptoms, and specific solutions.

When it comes down to it, replacing the logicboard is the solution for most iBook problems. It, basically, is the computer.

Right...Thats what i said.

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 02:33 PM
So then if it is the logic board there will be no fan chimes lights or anything?

Replacing the logicboard solves a number of iBook problems. Everything that makes an iBook an iBook is sitting on that board.

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 02:35 PM
Right...Thats what i said.

No that's not what you said.

In your previous post you told him to hook it up to an external LCD, eluding that you thought he had the classic iBook "no video" problem.

barr08
Aug 8, 2007, 02:37 PM
No that's not what you said.

In your previous post you told him to hook it up to an external LCD, eluding that you thought he had the classic iBook "no video" problem.

Umm, wrong...twice. In one sentence.

I asked him if he had tried it, I didn't tell him to. I probably wouldn't have told him to. I was just curious.

Why wouldn't I have told him to? Because the classic iBook problem eliminates use of the computer, even on an external monitor.

Don't tell me what I "eluded" to in one of my posts. Thats just a silly thing to do.

bartelby
Aug 8, 2007, 02:38 PM
There is nothing on that site that tells how to open it up. I have removed all the screws on the case and I still will not come apart.

Are the little feet on the bottom also screws?



I guess you missed this page (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/iBook-G3-12-Inch/Logic-Board/50/17/Page-5/Lower-Case) then, where it clearly shows this:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/50/images_large/12.jpg

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/50/images_large/13.jpg

barr08
Aug 8, 2007, 02:40 PM
I guess you missed this page (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/iBook-G3-12-Inch/Logic-Board/50/17/Page-5/Lower-Case) then, where it clearly shows this:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/50/images_large/12.jpg

Yeah, I was gunna say, I followed that guide and seemed to remember that picture. I was too lazy to go back though.

Seriously, guy, part it out.

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 02:44 PM
Umm, wrong...twice. In one sentence.

I asked him if he had tried it, I didn't tell him to. I probably wouldn't have told him to. I was just curious.

Why wouldn't I have told him to? Because the classic iBook problem eliminates use of the computer, even on an external monitor.

Don't tell me what I "eluded" to in one of my posts. Thats just a silly thing to do.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

The classic iBook problem does the exact opposite of what you just posted. No wonder you don't make any sense.

barr08
Aug 8, 2007, 02:50 PM
You have no clue what you're talking about.

The classic iBook problem does the exact opposite of what you just posted. No wonder you don't make any sense.

Dude, I have an iBook with the common logic board problem.

From apple's site (http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/)

It wouldn't work with an external monitor. Ever. Period. The LB is responsible for the entire computer's funtionality.

You
http://blog.pbwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/fail.jpg

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 02:58 PM
Dude, I have an iBook with the common logic board problem.

From apple's site (http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/)

It wouldn't work with an external monitor. Ever. Period. The LB is responsible for the entire computer's funtionality.

You
http://blog.pbwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/fail.jpg

I've fixed five of these iBooks with the video problem. Every one of them could view video on an external monitor.

I don't care what the link says. I've seen it myself, a number of times.

barr08
Aug 8, 2007, 03:00 PM
I've fixed five of these iBooks with the video problem. Every one of them could view video on an external monitor.

I don't care what the link says. I've seen it myself, a number of times.

Well mine, and this kids, and so many other people's, can't use an external. Does that mean the LB is fine?

aquajet
Aug 8, 2007, 03:03 PM
I've repaired a few iBooks with the dreaded "no video" problem. All suffered from the same failure: fractured solder joints on the GPU. If the solder joints are fractured on the GPU, the external video port isn't going to work either. You can stick business cards underneath the chip, but this isn't a very good solution. The solder needs to be reflowed, and it should be done by a professional with the proper equipment. A soldering iron is useless for this task.

But the OP's issue is something different than this, I suspect.

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 03:07 PM
Well mine, and this kids, and so many other people's, can't use an external. Does that mean the LB is fine?

I'm done here. I never said is LB was fine. I've said over and over again that it isn't.

I have said that his problem isn't the classic iBook problem. Based on his description, it isn't.

When did he say anything about testing it with an external?

If he did, and didn't get video, would that make you right?

What we know is that this iBook is dead, no lights, no chimes, no hard drive noise. None of that falls under the iBook no video symptom list, in fact it's the opposite of the no video symptoms list.

Really, based on the link you posted, both of us are wrong about the cause, but probably right about the solution.

G4-power
Aug 8, 2007, 03:27 PM
There are no Mac Repair shops near me and I don't know if it is worth putting any money into it although I would like a Mac so I can use Garageband.

I'm sorry I can't help you in fixing it, but there is one thing I can tell you: G3 iBooks don't run GarageBand that fast. I have 500MHz and 800MHz G3 iBooks at home and they aren't the actual musicians best friend. But if you have time to wait for the machine to churn the tracks, then okay. But you won't be able to play very many tracks (instruments) simultaneously, if you don't lock the tracks. If you are seriously going to use GarageBand on a G3 iBook, then good luck to you, and I suggest getting some extra memory, it's cheap.

shu82
Aug 8, 2007, 03:38 PM
yea, ilife 06 won't work with G3s. So you will be using a 4 year old version of Garageband.

I will buy it from you for parts!

Ball
Aug 8, 2007, 03:53 PM
I'm done here. I never said is LB was fine. I've said over and over again that it isn't.

I have said that his problem isn't the classic iBook problem. Based on his description, it isn't.

When did he say anything about testing it with an external?

If he did, and didn't get video, would that make you right?

What we know is that this iBook is dead, no lights, no chimes, no hard drive noise. None of that falls under the iBook no video symptom list, in fact it's the opposite of the no video symptoms list.

Really, based on the link you posted, both of us are wrong about the cause, but probably right about the solution.


Is there some sort of ladder logic diagram that tell how everything gets energized and in what order. I realize it is most likely the LB but I cannot confirm that as I don't know how to test it.

Is it posssible that there is a capacitor on the LB that is energized that is perventing is from resetting and therefore booting? It would seem that atleast the fan would come on when you press the power button. I know with PCs that is the forst thing that comes on.

Would a bad logic board prevent the fan from coming on? I believe there are some computers whose fans still run for a little while after they shut down to vent any residual heat.

Folks I apreciate all the help. I am not a Mac user so I am really playing catch up.

I'm just thinking basic trouble shooting. The problem is I don't know where on the LB to check for voltage.

Anybody know what a broken G3 is worth? :)

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 04:51 PM
Is there some sort of ladder logic diagram that tell how everything gets energized and in what order. I realize it is most likely the LB but I cannot confirm that as I don't know how to test it.

Is it posssible that there is a capacitor on the LB that is energized that is perventing is from resetting and therefore booting? It would seem that atleast the fan would come on when you press the power button. I know with PCs that is the forst thing that comes on.

Would a bad logic board prevent the fan from coming on? I believe there are some computers whose fans still run for a little while after they shut down to vent any residual heat.

Folks I apreciate all the help. I am not a Mac user so I am really playing catch up.

I'm just thinking basic trouble shooting. The problem is I don't know where on the LB to check for voltage.

Anybody know what a broken G3 is worth? :)

Sorry Ball, Apple's not what you'd call forthcoming when it comes to releasing their schematics.

Ball
Aug 8, 2007, 06:49 PM
Sorry Ball, Apple's not what you'd call forthcoming when it comes to releasing their schematics.

Mac's lack of support is why I went with a PC but now with Vista I am seriously considering a Mac.

The way I see it from a hardware standpoint and a sevice standpoint PC are a better bet but Windows being what it is is pushing me towards a Mac. I would love it if the Mac OS would run on a PC. I hear Windows will run on a Mac but why bother?

I'm really on the fence about getting one. Where I live the closest Mac dealer is over 100 miles a way. My impression pver the years is that Mac has always had a superior OS and often better hardware but their business practices are not really smart and service is tough to come by.

PC with windows are crap but atleast it is crap you can get fixed.

What do you think about this?
http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/01/18/PearPC.html

mick4394
Aug 8, 2007, 07:06 PM
Mac's lack of support is why I went with a PC but now with Vista I am seriously considering a Mac.

The way I see it from a hardware standpoint and a sevice standpoint PC are a better bet but Windows being what it is is pushing me towards a Mac. I would love it if the Mac OS would run on a PC. I hear Windows will run on a Mac but why bother?

I'm really on the fence about getting one. Where I live the closest Mac dealer is over 100 miles a way. My impression pver the years is that Mac has always had a superior OS and often better hardware but their business practices are not really smart and service is tough to come by.

PC with windows are crap but atleast it is crap you can get fixed.

What do you think about this?
http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/01/18/PearPC.html

Actually, in my experience Apple's biggest asset is their service. It's second to none.

To me, OSX is great. Their service is exceptional. The hardware, aesthetics aside, is the weakest point, and leaves something to be desired.

FYI, I'm currently using Vista. If you get the right system, it's actually quite stable, and pretty easy on the eyes. Is it as nice as OSX? In a word, no. I do like it, though.

maccam
Aug 8, 2007, 07:21 PM
Here http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/iBook-G3-12-Inch/50/ or here http://www.ifixit.com/Categories/G3-14-Inch-iBook/51

ivories07
Aug 12, 2007, 05:50 PM
go to this site:

http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-ibook-disassembly.htm

complete, detailed and accurate instructions on disassembly. With pictures. However, where he says "use a stick" to pry case apart, don't do that -- use a small, thin blade screwdriver, pushing in gently and prying by turning blade clockwise, and do the same all around the case perimeter. You may need to go around twice to pop all the shell clamps apart.

Also when you go to remove the top, after prying the shell apart, remember yo must remove keyboard first (easy) then remove top gently to avoid too much pressure; and there are three connection plugs that must be popped off first.

The power supply problem is troublesome; will it start with charged battery only? Then likely problem is bad power supply which cycles and keeps giving it an "off" signal. This will prevent the machine from turning on.