PDA

View Full Version : So how many people here want 2 button mouse from Apple?


macphoria
Aug 2, 2003, 12:15 PM
Third party 2 button mouse is already available for Mac. And it is very convenient for designers and gamers alike. But how many of you would like Apple to ship with their own 2 button mouse? And scroll wheel perhaps?

jelloshotsrule
Aug 2, 2003, 12:20 PM
gotta have 3... ideally scroll wheel/button in the middle.

i don't think they have to release something like that, as people who actually *need* one (ie, users of shake, maya, etc) have the $ to buy a 3rd party one

but i don't think it would hurt, either

legion
Aug 2, 2003, 12:43 PM
my big thing is laptops....

On a desktop, replacing the mouse is a non-issue, however on laptops, you're stuck with what comes with it and the 1 button mouse is ridiculous. It's one of the reasons that kept me from a Mac PB. They should have scroll wheels and a second mouse button.

[And for those of you who are thinking "why doesn't he just plug in an external mouse?"-- doesn't that defeat the purpose of laptops? When I'm using my laptop I don't want an external keyboard, firewire drives attached, a powerbrick... I want nothing that encumbers ease of use anywhere or adds extra weight (to much to ask, don't think so.)

Laptops should be self-contained, ie, the total package for a user]

idea_hamster
Aug 2, 2003, 12:56 PM
Has Steve ever articulated the rationale behind his resistence to the 2- or 3-button mouse?

tazo
Aug 2, 2003, 01:09 PM
They should only ship them with the pro line, thats my opinion, cuz honestly I don't think anyone is playing games on their ibook or imac...not to say that *no one* does :D

Daveman Deluxe
Aug 2, 2003, 01:12 PM
Steve doesn't want to give us a two-button mouse because he thinks we'll find it confusing.

Typical case of Steve putting into the computers what Steve wants.

Maybe Steve will find it confusing, but I sure don't find it confusing.

Mav451
Aug 2, 2003, 01:27 PM
I thought they were those "mini" scroll mouses that plug directly into USB, made specifically for Laptops. Someone had it in the dorm all last year, so i'm sure they're available at most local computer stores (Compusa / Bestbuy :)

synthetickittie
Aug 2, 2003, 01:27 PM
Im dam well willing to bet that on what ever computer it is that steve has as his MAIN computer at his home it has a two button mouse at least(3rd party or not).

iJon
Aug 2, 2003, 01:34 PM
well i dont see it a huge issue for the laptops. personally i feel a second button and a scroll would make the laptop unattractive. i also find it kindof odd that someone would refrain from buying a powerbook for not having a 2nd button or a scroll. since you have the trackpad right there, that means the control key is left of the trackpad, which acts as a second button. and the page up and down key are to the right of the trackpad which act just fine as a scroll. to me it sounds you are to picky or to lazy, but honestly it doesnt matter because its your money and thats all that matters. i just found it odd because ive never heard someone not buy a powerbook for those 2 reasons.

iJon

sparks9
Aug 2, 2003, 01:45 PM
second button and mouse would be perfect...

sparks9
Aug 2, 2003, 01:49 PM
btw i think the "mouse"-thingy on the IBM Thinkpads is great, especially when you need to save space. but i guess apple can't use that because ibm owns the idea.

visor
Aug 2, 2003, 03:09 PM
If Apple added the option to sell a real keyboard an mouse with buying a new mac - it would be good enough.
I've not seen a single good input peripheral made by apple... They are so full with their dogmas, I don't think the'll ever come up with a decent solution.

methdxman
Aug 2, 2003, 03:18 PM
Anyone know the battery life on the Microsoft Bluetooth mouse? Like how often you have to replace it.

crenz
Aug 2, 2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by iJon
i just found it odd because ive never heard someone not buy a powerbook for those 2 reasons.

There's more people that think like that. Having only one mouse button was one of the reasons for my roommate not to buy a PB. He uses Linux and heavily relies on having three mouse buttons. Emulating three buttons with two is fine, but if you only have one, it gets a bit difficult... Also, Linux and Windows distinguish between Ctrl+Click and Right-Click.

That, and the fact that the 16" Dell he bought has a 1600x1200 resolution. I wish Apple had a PB with that resolution, too... :(

daveg5
Aug 2, 2003, 03:27 PM
for the last 3 years i have used the 5 button itellimouse optical with scroll wheel in os9 and osx, it truly increases productivity, i also like the longer cord. and yes microsoft makes great hardware, including xbox and thier mouse software is top notch, really works good with fps games. 1=shoot2=jump3=crouch4=open5=zoom,scroll=weapons change.
i also prefer thier pro keyboard to my dinky bw one.
i am hoping for an ipod inspired mouse and a keyboard with seperate media keys (i know they are not needed but i like them)
i will buy if it looks cool has quality and it must be wireless.
i am eyeing the wireless logiteck and bluetooth microsoft combos, but i am waiting to see what apple offers, i know it wont be standard as they need to make money, i will buy.hopefully it will be detacable usb /wireless for all macs

daveg5
Aug 2, 2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
gotta have 3... ideally scroll wheel/button in the middle.

i don't think they have to release something like that, as people who actually *need* one (ie, users of shake, maya, etc) have the $ to buy a 3rd party one

but i don't think it would hurt, either
yea the 17" has the wolrds longest single mouse button, should be split in two with a scroll strip in the middle can be done tastefully

edesignuk
Aug 2, 2003, 03:30 PM
I would like to see them make a good 2 button mouse w/ wheel standard with all systems, but I'd never buy one as a separate item. The current Pro mouse is a rip-off(c'mon, 40 for one button! :mad: ), and I'm sure a 2 button w/ wheel would cost even more. I'm really not to bothered, I'll just get a good mouse from a third party, Logitech, dare I say it...Microsoft :eek:

pivo6
Aug 2, 2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by edesignuk
I would like to see them make a good 2 button mouse w/ wheel standard with all systems, but I'd never buy one as a separate item. The current Pro mouse is a rip-off(c'mon, 40 for one button! :mad: ), and I'm sure a 2 button w/ wheel would cost even more. I'm really not to bothered, I'll just get a good mouse from a third party, Logitech, dare I say it...Microsoft :eek:

Agreed. I would love for Apple to make a two button, or even add a scroll wheel, but since the current Apple mouse is $49.00, I shudder to think how much they would charge for another button.

cubist
Aug 2, 2003, 04:01 PM
Scroll wheels are an obvious band-aid on a design which is close to being good, but not quite there.

You folks should really try an optical trackball. Kensington has just come out with one, as has MacAlly. Unfortunately MacAlly's is not symmetrical, so lefties are left out.

People who say "I tried a trackball in 1983 and it was crappy" should remember that mice were pretty crappy in 1983 too.

Moving a tiny cursor on the screen by moving your whole hand around on the desk is extremely inefficient, don't you think?

As for what Apple should come out with: Apple should come out with Aluminum Powerbooks with G5 processors. Let third parties deal with stupid stuff like mice and keyboards.

edesignuk
Aug 2, 2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by cubist
Moving a tiny cursor on the screen by moving your whole hand around on the desk is extremely inefficient, don't you think?

Not really, I only have to move my mouse about 10cm to move it across 2560 pixels (2 x 1280x1024 displays), doesn't exactly take a lot of effort. Besides that, I just hate trackballs.

mnkeybsness
Aug 2, 2003, 04:12 PM
so far kensington has be best design/functionality that i have seen for three button (scroll wheel) mice. that touch sensitive area was just a great idea.

but i would love to see apple take a clue or two from logitech's mx700 mouse. those things are amazing.

visor
Aug 2, 2003, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by edesignuk
Not really, I only have to move my mouse about 10cm to move it across 2560 pixels (2 x 1280x1024 displays), doesn't exactly take a lot of effort. Besides that, I just hate trackballs.

Same setup here. I don't even need to move my arm, just moving the hand a bit gets me everywhere I want on the Desktop.
And I do love the old Logi pilot ergonmics. it feels just extremly right and is never tiring for the wrist.

wowoah
Aug 2, 2003, 04:25 PM
Wasn't there a rumor a while back that Apple was working on a two-button optical mouse with a iPod-style touch wheel on top? That would be amazing -- so much cooler and more functional than anything else out there.

Throw in some Bluetooth and rechargable batteries and that sounds like a winner.

Easier said than done though, of course...

edesignuk
Aug 2, 2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by wowoah
Wasn't there a rumor a while back that Apple was working on a two-button optical mouse with a iPod-style touch wheel on top? That would be amazing -- so much cooler and more functional than anything else out there.

Throw in some Bluetooth and rechargable batteries and that sounds like a winner.

Easier said than done though, of course...
Sounds great and all, but can you imagine how much that would cost? :eek:

legion
Aug 2, 2003, 05:30 PM
Mav451
I've seen those mini mice, it's just that once again you require desk space to make those useful. I prefer the "self-contained" approach. Plus you end up with a cord looping down and the size of those mice can't be good for your hands.

synthetickittie and sparks9
Steve Jobs used an IBM ThinkPad for at least 2 years after coming back to Apple as CEO for his own personal computer and they all have at least 2 mouse buttons. My ThinkPad has a total of 7 buttons useable as mouse buttons, though I only use 3 (I've turned off the others) As it stands, my hands never have to leave the home keys and since I've always been a touch-typist, I tend to be a lot more productive.

iJon
I guess I wasn't clear, the lack of mouse options was one (1!) of the reasons I decided not to go with a PB. I tend to pro/con everything and the balance fell against the PBs. As for laziness, wasn't really expecting a personal attack, but I'll respond professionally...
The 17" PB places the keyboard so forward that the distance from the keyboard to the trackpad and button is awkard. The use of two hands verses one hand to accomplish the same goal seems un-elegant (right-click/contextual menus selection.) Using PgUp and PgDn gives you no accuracy in movement (it becomes an all or nothing action) The solution I'm working with now gives me great precision in scrolling and allows me to scroll from side to side as well, without changing my hand position (this is great for film and audio editing-- very equivalent to a jog shuttle)

I can't be the only one who's been rebuffed by the PBs for the lack of mouse buttons. For all the advancements in computers, the means for user input is still fairly archaic. However, since keyboards and mice/trackpads/etc.. are still the most common means to input into a laptop and I'd guess user input is one of the greatest bottlenecks in a computer's performance, I place a high value on my own personal functionality with keyboards and mice. One of my tests when checking laptops has always been just sitting or standing in front of the laptop model and typing for 30mins straight (long enough for my concentration on typing to lapse so I can see real-world results for my touch-typing) and then seeing how many errors I have and if I had any issues with the mouse input functions.

iPC
Aug 2, 2003, 06:06 PM
I do.

Mav451
Aug 2, 2003, 07:23 PM
yeah it's true those mice are a bit too small...especially if you got big hands.

the current best "3rd" party rechargeable/optic and wireless mouse is the logitech mx700--and its MUCH cheaper than it was a year ago. It was 80+, but now it's close to the mid 50's.

Newegg you can get it for 56 bucks :)

I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for Apple to make one of their own...they've made things like the iPod. A mouse should be NOTHING for them to do haha.

mnkeybsness
Aug 2, 2003, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by Mav451
the current best "3rd" party rechargeable/optic and wireless mouse is the logitech mx700--and its MUCH cheaper than it was a year ago. It was 80+, but now it's close to the mid 50's.

Newegg you can get it for 56 bucks :)


$50.99 on compuvisor.com (http://www.compuvisor.com/lomxcoopmo93.html), a yahoo certified seller.

Mav451
Aug 2, 2003, 09:13 PM
i checked that site...unfortunately it's 7.70 bucks for shipping. Brings the price to $58.69.

Newegg is only $56.00 with FREE SHIPPING. Here's the link guys.
http://www.newegg.com/app/Viewproduct.asp?DEPA=1&submit=manufactory&catalog=65&manufactory=1080&description=&srchFor=mx700

question fear
Aug 2, 2003, 09:58 PM
i dont really see extreme need for two button/scroll mice for the avg laptop user. I went from a logitech opitical mouse on my pc to the trackpad on my ibook...i find that with the close proximity of the ctrl key and the arrow keys it makes more sense than using a mouse, or even bothering with a second button...set the trackpad sensitivty right and with a very small flick of the fingers you've got your right click.
not any better or worse than a pc laptop, just different.
--carly

zim
Aug 2, 2003, 10:04 PM
I would like to see what apple could do in this area but, and I seem to be the only one that loves my one button mice.

I really started using the keyboard along with the mouse to its fullest, after having to wear a brace on my wrist for 2 years.

I know some page layout people who hardly use the mouse, I also know tech people that use it to a minimum.

I try my hardest not to use my mouse for everything, I just don't think that it is healthy... yes I sit and use my mouse "properly." I see the mouse as just a tool, I also use a wacom tablet pen, both are tools that I can manage without for the majority of general computer using, such as web surfing, email and navigating my drives. At times I do get lazy and use my mouse but I make sure that I am using the other hand for controlling the functions.

So, when it comes to a laptop, I don't see the point of having multiple functions built into the "mouse" area. Everything can be done with the keyboard and mouse combinations, I mean what would you be doing with your other hand if it was all right there? humm, never mind, please don't answer that question.

I will be honest and say that yes I do own a Kensington mouse, the studio mouse with the touch pad, and I will admit that it is great but even with all the functions, I still find myself using the keyboard with the mouse and the keyboard alone.

Powerbook G5
Aug 2, 2003, 10:37 PM
When I became a switcher and got a PowerBook, I thought that I would need a multi button mouse with it, too, but quickly I got used to and find myself much more effficient using just my one button and various keyboard buttons. Even if Apple did come out with an awesome multi function mouse (which would be great) it wouldn't matter to me since I will still have a PowerBook with one button, so what good would that be to me? If I got one I'd be stuck having to have an external mouse which takes a big part of being portable and self sufficient away from my user experience. And don't get me started on the ugliness of multi function mice on laptops--just take a look at the new Dell laptops with 4 buttons and all those scroll gadgets on various Sony, HP, etc. Talk about messy and unfriendly.

Horrortaxi
Aug 2, 2003, 10:42 PM
When I first got my Mac I kept using my 3 button mouse with scroll wheel. Eventually I switched back to the Apple mouse. I use a lot of keyboard shortcuts, which is a lot faster, and even when using the mouse I've got one hand free to hit control--it's not a hardship. Since the whole mouse is basically a big button it's easy to reach for it quickly and give sort of a half assed click.

On my iBook I use a 3 button mouse w/ wheel when I'm using it for an extended time. I'm not crazy about the trackpad and it annoys the hell out of me if I have to use it for more than about 15 minutes.

zim
Aug 2, 2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
When I became a switcher and got a PowerBook, I thought that I would need a multi button mouse with it, too, but quickly I got used to and find myself much more effficient using just my one button and various keyboard buttons. Even if Apple did come out with an awesome multi function mouse (which would be great) it wouldn't matter to me since I will still have a PowerBook with one button, so what good would that be to me? If I got one I'd be stuck having to have an external mouse which takes a big part of being portable and self sufficient away from my user experience. And don't get me started on the ugliness of multi function mice on laptops--just take a look at the new Dell laptops with 4 buttons and all those scroll gadgets on various Sony, HP, etc. Talk about messy and unfriendly.

Agree, multi function "mice" on laptops are ugly and have more of a potential for things to break. The only way I see this working is if apple was to adopt a complete touch pad type of layout, similar to what they are doing with the iPod but, all touch pad. I am not suggesting that I want to see apple do this, I still feel that one button mice are the way to go.

There is a growing number of people complaining about pains in their fingers from excessive scroll wheel action. Touch pads, like the Kensington may be the answer but I feel that actively using the other hand as a means to navigate or even letting go of the mouse, is best.

jbomber
Aug 2, 2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by legion
my big thing is laptops....

On a desktop, replacing the mouse is a non-issue, however on laptops, you're stuck with what comes with it and the 1 button mouse is ridiculous. It's one of the reasons that kept me from a Mac PB. They should have scroll wheels and a second mouse button.

[And for those of you who are thinking "why doesn't he just plug in an external mouse?"-- doesn't that defeat the purpose of laptops? When I'm using my laptop I don't want an external keyboard, firewire drives attached, a powerbrick... I want nothing that encumbers ease of use anywhere or adds extra weight (to much to ask, don't think so.)

Laptops should be self-contained, ie, the total package for a user]


yeah, that actally kinda pisses me off too. i want the big button on my new 17" to be 2 buttons. i wonder if anyone's put any thought/work into modding the laptops.....

jbomber
Aug 2, 2003, 11:03 PM
I think apple makes one button mice on purpose so that 3rd party companies have a quick tie-in opportunity to produce hardware for them. keeps eveyone happy. money for the companies. platform support for apple.

KCK
Aug 2, 2003, 11:03 PM
I never though about the issue of a two button mouse until I got a trackball with multi buttons. Now I kind of like the idea of a multibutton mouse. Then again I find myself using the keyboard more with the trackball than I did before with a single button mouse.s