Dems to spar, GOP no-show at landmark gay debate

[aquajet]

Link (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/09/debate.gay/index.html)

(CNN) -- Voters concerned about where presidential candidates stand on gay rights may have their question answered tonight.

The gay and lesbian community is largely Democratic and politically active.

The forum, at 9 p.m. ET in Los Angeles, California, is co-sponsored by the Human Rights Campaign, the country's leading organization advocating equal rights for gays, lesbians, and the transgender community.

Also sponsoring the event is LOGO, a gay and lesbian television network that is part of MTV Networks that will televise the debate.

While just three percent of 2006 voters identified themselves as gay or lesbian, the community is largely Democratic and politically active.

All Democratic candidates will be there except Sen. Joseph Biden and Sen. Chris Dodd who say they have scheduling conflicts.

No Republican candidates agreed to participate.

Serving as a panelist, Human Rights Campaign president Joe Solmonese said the debate reflects the comfort level many Americans have now regarding gay issues and gay lifestyles.

"Candidates are talking about our issues [such as] overturning the ban on gays and lesbians in the military," he said.

But stances on gay rights among those Democrats don't necessarily reflect what the rest of the country thinks -- at least those attitudes measured by polls.

In the latest CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll, 45 percent of Americans said they have a family member or friend who is gay or lesbian. That's up 13 points since 1994.

Still, 57 percent of Americans oppose legalizing gay marriage. And previous polls show more acceptance but not a majority acceptance of civil unions.

Former Sen. John Edwards straddles the middle of the road, saying this election season that he's not ready to embrace gay marriage, but his wife and daughter support it.

The decision by GOP candidates not to attend the debate mirrors their constituency's feelings. Tony Perkins, the president of the conservative Washington-based Family Research Council, suggested Democratic candidates are debating merely to court money from special interest groups that cater to gay rights. But he suggested there may be some political backlash.

"If they [Democrats] want to make a social statement it's a great thing to do," said Perkins. "If they want to raise money among special interest groups it's a great thing to do. But if they [Democrats] want to win the White House, polling shows it's [courting the gay and lesbian vote] not the thing to do."

my emphasis

We could just as easily say that GOP candidates snub the debate merely to court money from special interest groups who seek to marginalize gay people. What's your point, Tony? Oh, that's right. You're full of it, as always.

[rockthecasbah]

Not all GOP candidates are anti-gay or whatever, the fact is that Logo chose to hold the debate during one of the most important weeks in the presidential campaign, the week before the Iowa Strawpoll. Debates get little viewership as it is, and the GOP candidates, particularly those in the second tier are devoting all time and energy to courting last minute votes to try to get more support in the straw poll.


I agree that the Republican party as a whole is not gay friendly, but there shimmers of hope in candidates like Ron Paul.

[it5five]

Not all GOP candidates are anti-gay or whatever, the fact is that Logo chose to hold the debate during one of the most important weeks in the presidential campaign, the week before the Iowa Strawpoll. Debates get little viewership as it is, and the GOP candidates, particularly those in the second tier are devoting all time and energy to courting last minute votes to try to get more support in the straw poll.


I agree that the Republican party as a whole is not gay friendly, but there shimmers of hope in candidates like Ron Paul.

No, Ron Paul is not gay friendly AT ALL. He wants to leave all of those issues up to the states, which means that being gay would likely be illegal in many many states. He even co-sponsored the "Marriage Protection Act". Gay friendly? No. Definitely no.

I don't understand why people like Ron Paul. Oh, he wants to drill in ANWR. What else does he support? Absolutely nothing?

[solvs]

They're all so wishy washy on gay rights. Clinton used to support Don't Ask Don't Tell, but as per usual, it looks like she's bending the other way now. Obama doesn't seem to want to be clear. Edwards can't just come out and say he supports it, he's gotta straddle what he sees as the middle. Kucinich is pro gay, but let's face it, he has no real chance. Biden is somewhat pro gay rights, he made a big deal out of rights for everyone on the last show I saw him on, but of course shot himself in the foot again by not showing.

They're all going to be called ultra liberals anyway, they might as well just go all out and pledge support. But no, they'd rather lean more towards the middle, just pissing off more of their base and continuing to be ignored by the moderates who don't care. And that's the real issue here. To be honest, most people really don't care one way or the other about this. Help those who do, fight those who are against it, and prove to everyone else that it's about rights, not homosexuality, and that it's not a big deal in the grand scheme that there are more important things to deal with.

Gay rights are inevitable, just as other minority rights were, and very few people are going to care after it happens.

[leekohler]

Not all GOP candidates are anti-gay or whatever, the fact is that Logo chose to hold the debate during one of the most important weeks in the presidential campaign, the week before the Iowa Strawpoll. Debates get little viewership as it is, and the GOP candidates, particularly those in the second tier are devoting all time and energy to courting last minute votes to try to get more support in the straw poll.


I agree that the Republican party as a whole is not gay friendly, but there shimmers of hope in candidates like Ron Paul.

Ron Paul? Are you kidding me?!!! That's guy's a jacka** as far as gay rights are concerned. He's a "traditional values" guy. I've linked pages to his website before on the issue.

As far as the Dems go, they just proved to me how much they don't really want my vote.

As for the GOP, they must have all been at church during the debate. :rolleyes:

[ham_man]

No, Ron Paul is not gay friendly AT ALL. He wants to leave all of those issues up to the states, which means that being gay would likely be illegal in many many states. He even co-sponsored the "Marriage Protection Act". Gay friendly? No. Definitely no.
So, basically, you are calling on members of congress and other politicians to subvert the will of the people and the tenth amendment?

[leekohler]

So, basically, you are calling on members of congress and other politicians to subvert the will of the people and the tenth amendment?

The will of the people should have nothing to do with another person's individual liberty or human rights. If that were the case, women would still be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and not allowed to vote. Blacks would still be slaves. Don't try that tired arguement. It won't work, and it's been shot down here a thousand times.

[ham_man]

The will of the people should have nothing to do with another person's individual liberty or human rights. If that were the case, women would still be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen and not allowed to vote. Blacks would still be slaves. Don't try that tired arguement. It won't work, and it's been shot down here a thousand times.
Has the Supreme Court struck down any gay marriage law as being unconstitutional?

[leekohler]

Has the Supreme Court struck down any gay marriage law as being unconstitutional?

As far as I know, DOMA prevents them from even hearing a case. Here- read up on it. I've posted this a few times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act

If you think this is OK, we have nothing left to talk about.

[aquajet]

So, basically, you are calling on members of congress and other politicians to subvert the will of the people and the tenth amendment?

Would that be the will of the people to discriminate against other people? I seem to remember you having brought this up before. Still haven't learned your history, have you?

Indeed, nothing left to talk about.

[mactastic]

As for the GOP, they must have all been at church during the debate. :rolleyes:
Or hanging out with the College Republican "mouthpiece". ;)

[aquajet]

Or hanging out with the College Republican "mouthpiece". ;)

That one was over the top. :rolleyes: ;)

[leekohler]

Or hanging out with the College Republican "mouthpiece". ;)

Stop it! You're making me think dirty thoughts. :)

[mactastic]

That one was over the top. :rolleyes: ;)
Or under the bottom?:cool:

[leekohler]

Or under the bottom?:cool:

Wow- it's just not going to stop, is it? :) I like where this is going. :D

[aquajet]

I like where this is going.

Wherever you'd like to go Lee. We're all pretty versatile.

[leekohler]

Wherever you'd like to go Lee. We're all pretty versatile.

Oh! Is that a mouthpiece I feel? :eek::D

[rockthecasbah]

I never said Ron Paul WAS gay friendly, i meant to say he was more so then other Republican candidates. He is for the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell and workplace equality. I admit he isn't for national gay marriage (which I think he should be but that's another matter)... and in his view looks at it as a states rights issue (as someone stated earlier).


I'm not going to take away from the thread and post why people like Ron Paul or don't, but if you look at him in comparison to the GOP candidates, he is one of them that tends to favor gay-rights even if he is not perfect.

[leekohler]

I never said Ron Paul WAS gay friendly, i meant to say he was more so then other Republican candidates. He is for the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell and workplace equality. I admit he isn't for national gay marriage (which I think he should be but that's another matter)... and in his view looks at it as a states rights issue (as someone stated earlier).


I'm not going to take away from the thread and post why people like Ron Paul or don't, but if you look at him in comparison to the GOP candidates, he is one of them that tends to favor gay-rights even if he is not perfect.

After I read his own statements on his website, he seemed to be saying, "don't make gay marriage illegal in the US Constitution, do it in your state constitution instead, then it's OK." Huh? What the hell is that? It shouldn't be OK in any case. He's essentially dodging the issue with this stance. I call BS on him just like I do the Dems.

And believe me, we haven't forgotten what the Clintons did to us when they were in office.

[PlaceofDis]

from what i gather Obama is looking for equal civil unions but not marriage. i don't know if hes trying to play the moderate card on this one or what. but i wish his position was different. its a shame that Kucinich doesn't have much of a chance.

[Swarmlord]

<snip>And believe me, we haven't forgotten what the Clintons did to us when they were in office.

OMG, Bill swings that way too? :eek:

[leekohler]

from what i gather Obama is looking for equal civil unions but not marriage. i don't know if hes trying to play the moderate card on this one or what. but i wish his position was different. its a shame that Kucinich doesn't have much of a chance.

He's being a wimp just like the rest of them. But Hillary? She just needs to GO. I still say if she gets nominated, she'll lose the race for the Dems for sure. You'll see a more galvanized Republican Party than you've ever seen in your life.

[rockthecasbah]

How are the Democrats any different than Republicans here? With the exception of Kucinich and Gravel none of them support full rights! The Dems (minus Gravel and Kucinich) are just playing politics and that debate made it quite clear. The difference is really they are just playing politics to different political views... The fact is that for gay rights, the field is still extremely limited to the most liberal candidates which is sad.

[solvs]

How are the Democrats any different than Republicans here?

As per usual, most of them are only slightly less bad.

[bousozoku]

from what i gather Obama is looking for equal civil unions but not marriage. i don't know if hes trying to play the moderate card on this one or what. but i wish his position was different. its a shame that Kucinich doesn't have much of a chance.

They should call them all civil unions and eliminate legal marriages in churches. :eek: :p I'm tired of people who have no clue about the rest of the world trampling on the rights of others.

Jay Leno mentioned the debate and said that the Republicans didn't show because they were all out having gay sex. :D

[solvs]

They should call them all civil unions and eliminate legal marriages in churches.

Actually, they're already all civil unions. The church part is all ceremony at this point anyway. The paperwork filed with the gov is what makes it legal. As well, some churches are ok with gay marriage, so ironically, it is the gov taking away their right to religious practices.