New 24" iMac owners - test your screen

[l33r0y]

Open the below attached GIF images in full screen (the thumbnails won't be so obvious)


If you are viewing this on a TN film based panel the colours will change depending on your vertical viewing angle.

- Purple:
From below, the colour will be close to pure blue
From above, it will appear a washed out bright purple
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3817/purpleww5.th.gif (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=purpleww5.gif)


- Green:
From below will be close to dark green
From above a washed out bright yellow
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/7563/greenzg7.th.gif (http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenzg7.gif)


- Cyan:
From below will be almost pure blue
From above almost turquoise
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/4999/cyanzb4.th.gif (http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cyanzb4.gif)


- Grey:
From below will look black
From above white
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/4100/greyzg9.th.gif (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greyzg9.gif)


If you are NOT getting these distortions, you do NOT have a TN film based panel - it will either be S-IPS or S-PVA.


Again, open the attached GIF images in full screen (the thumbnails won't be so obvious)

NOTE: All notebooks will produce this side effect as they all use TN Film panels. This is normal.

Thanks for participating!

L

[l33r0y]

It would be handy if this could be tested by a NEW iMac 20" and 24" owner.

I'm hoping the 24" panel will not have this distortion. :rolleyes:

Thanks

L.

[l33r0y]

Click on thumbnail for full screen

[RRK]

Well I can tell you the 17" G4 iMac does. ;)

[l33r0y]

Well I can tell you the 17" G4 iMac does. ;)

Go on then! It may be interesting to compare.

[kap91]

With my iMac 20" Intel Core Duo the colors stay practically the same unless I'm at like a 180 degree angle at which they darken slightly. Anyway though, what is a TN Film based panel?

[l33r0y]

Cheers.

Is this the new 2007 iMac?

Are you viewing from above and below (not left to right?)

Read about panel technology here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/specs.htm

[killerrobot]

All the colors change on my 2.33 MPB when looking from above.

[kap91]

Cheers.

Is this the new 2007 iMac?

Are you viewing from above and below (not left to right?)

Well, if your talking to me, then no. This iMac is the original Intel iMac with the Intel Core Duo NOT Core 2 Duo. I have viewed it from top, bottom, left, and right. The colors stay practically the same,only very slight darkening. If you're not talking to me then sorry for making this post.

[l33r0y]

Well, if your talking to me, then no. This iMac is the original Intel iMac with the Intel Core Duo NOT Core 2 Duo. I have viewed it from top, bottom, left, and right. The colors stay practically the same,only very slight darkening. If you're not talking to me then sorry for making this post.

That sounds about right as the older iMacs have the superior S-IPS panels just like the cinema displays. The new 20" iMac has the TN Film type (as will ALL notebooks) which are generally 6bit and have this known side effect. The new 24" iMac is still an unknown, which is the main reason for this post.


Thanks for checking :)

[xUKHCx]

That sounds about right as the older iMacs have the superior S-IPS panels just like the cinema displays. The new 20" iMac has the TN Film type (as will ALL notebooks) which are generally 6bit and have this known side effect. The new 24" iMac is still an unknown, which is the main reason for this post.


Thanks for checking :)

What do the previous gen iMacs have i.e the Core 2 Duos in white.

[l33r0y]

What do the previous gen iMacs have i.e the Core 2 Duos in white.

S-IPS as far as I know :)

[Craiger]

They seem to change as you describe for me. I'm on a new imac 20" bought yesterday....

[l33r0y]

They seem to change as you describe for me. I'm on a new imac 20" bought yesterday....

Thanks Craiger - this is normal behavior for a TN Film panel.

I would like to know if anyone with a new 24" iMac is getting the same behavior or not...

[• Jaz •]

S-IPS as far as I know :)

My white Core 2 Duo does exactly what's listed there.

[sblasl]

xlr8yourmac.com has an article about the new 20" iMac 2007 models with washed out color/poor viewing angles.

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/

[daneoni]

I getwhats listed but in opposite directions

[Queso]

Works on mine. 17" iMac G5 with iSight.

[Applespider]

A suggestion: you know the answer to all Mac laptops and the new 20" is a TN screen. I'm not entirely sure why you re-edited your original mail to ask everyone to post the answer.

The only question you have left is whether the new 24" iMac has 'fails' your test. Change the title to something like "New 24" iMac owners - test your screen" and you'll probably get an answer quicker.

[l33r0y]

A suggestion: you know the answer to all Mac laptops and the new 20" is a TN screen. I'm not entirely sure why you re-edited your original mail to ask everyone to post the answer.

The only question you have left is whether the new 24" iMac has 'fails' your test. Change the title to something like "New 24" iMac owners - test your screen" and you'll probably get an answer quicker.

Done - thanks for the suggestion :)


Looking more into the 24" panel type, I have reason to believe Apple have chosen the same panel that Dell are using in their 2407WFP, which is the Samsung S-PVA LTM240M2 or LTM240L2. No proof yet, but that is where I'd put my virtual money... :)

[Vader]

Looks like my macbook 2.16 ghz black has a TN Film display.

[wpwj40e]

AT the local apple store now - trying this out on a 24" aluminum iMac.

I am not tall enough to tell the colors from above and the wire is too short to move the monitor. However, from below the colors do not appear to change dramatically - what I can tell you at about the lower level from two
heads
below - is that the colors appear to be a bit muddier - not necessarily darker.

In person the glare is really a non-issue for me. The screen is super bright and I thought for sure I would hate bright. But really liking it. Especially since i have the old 24 right next to it to compare. Much brighter and cleaner looking colors for the same imagery.

BTW - unrelated - I am liking the keyboard. 'Course I also have a macbook and that may be why - pretty used to it already. Could have a bit more of an angle - but typing is really nice. I tend to fat finger and kill my text typing.

I like it!

Therese

[RRK]

AT the local apple store now - trying this out on a 24" aluminum iMac.

I am not tall enough to tell the colors from above and the wire is too short to move the monitor. However, from below the colors do not appear to change dramatically - what I can tell you at about the lower level from two
heads
below - is that the colors appear to be a bit muddier - not necessarily darker.

In person the glare is really a non-issue for me. The screen is super bright and I thought for sure I would hate bright. But really liking it. Especially since i have the old 24 right next to it to compare. Much brighter and cleaner looking colors for the same imagery.

BTW - unrelated - I am liking the keyboard. 'Course I also have a macbook and that may be why - pretty used to it already. Could have a bit more of an angle - but typing is really nice. I tend to fat finger and kill my text typing.

I like it!

Therese

Awesome, good news on all fronts.

24" is not TN.

Hd 2600 pro is actually a custom made card for apple.

Glossy screen can be fixed with screen protector.

I heard the 2.8 is overclockable??

Cool...:cool::apple:

[l33r0y]

AT the local apple store now - trying this out on a 24" aluminum iMac.

I am not tall enough to tell the colors from above and the wire is too short to move the monitor. However, from below the colors do not appear to change dramatically - what I can tell you at about the lower level from two
heads
below - is that the colors appear to be a bit muddier - not necessarily darker.

In person the glare is really a non-issue for me. The screen is super bright and I thought for sure I would hate bright. But really liking it. Especially since i have the old 24 right next to it to compare. Much brighter and cleaner looking colors for the same imagery.

BTW - unrelated - I am liking the keyboard. 'Course I also have a macbook and that may be why - pretty used to it already. Could have a bit more of an angle - but typing is really nice. I tend to fat finger and kill my text typing.

I like it!

Therese


Great stuff!

If you're near a 20", try the test again. In theory the results will be dramatically different the 24" (so just to confirm you are seeing a difference between the two)

Thanks again!

[l33r0y]

Awesome, good news on all fronts.

24" is not TN.

Hd 2600 pro is actually a custom made card for apple.

Glossy screen can be fixed with screen protector.

I heard the 2.8 is overclockable??

Cool...:cool::apple:


Yeah, the 2.8/24" is looking like the one for me.

Good news about the GPU being better than the standard 2600 Pro (closer to an XT). Hoping improved drivers will keep upping the performance...

[l33r0y]

Looks like my macbook 2.16 ghz black has a TN Film display.

NOTE: All notebooks will produce this side effect as they all use TN Film panels. This is normal.

[mino]

Colors do change on my Santa Rosa 15'' 2.4 MacBook Pro with LED display!

[wpwj40e]

Another report from my local apple store. Now on a 20" aluminum iMac.

OMG - What a huge difference. This monitor s**cks. I owned a 20" for the better part of a year (just sold) and this monitor really does not compare...at all..

Anyways - the colors change dramatically as indicated in the first post.

I do not know diddly about monitors (well maybe a little:)) But the 20" monitor and the 24" monitor are completely different.

I did reset and re calibrate both
monitors to the same profiles again and retested using the first posts screen shots etc.

A couple of side notes - ALL the new aluminum iMacs have 2 gig of memory in them...I know they only ship with one - but obviously someone thought in this store to make sure they are all at 2 gig.

The 24" does not appear big at all - and the 20" looks tiny. I do mean tiny after sitting with the 24:)

PLayed a couple of movie trailers on the 24" - they looked gorgeous - and I do know fair bit about av - very nice detail contrast - could adjust the gamma to compensate for any black crush. With some playing - the 24" has a very, very, nice screen.

The glare fo dark scenes in this highly lit store was noticeable and if watching movies in a bright room or with sun behind you is part of your plan - you will hate the glass screen. For manyother purposes - text, brwosing, anything without a bright sunlit window behind you - you should be happy. Unless you are trying to color correct (photography) and in that case you will want a true color sceeen. This is pretty darn close btw - but not enough to color correct proffesionally...at least I would want a different screen for that if that was my job.

For everyone else - really nice.

Still liking the keyboard - have half as many typos as i usually generate.

Okay only here for another 30 minutes or so - ask any questions if you want!

Therese

[l33r0y]

Colors do change on my Santa Rosa 15'' 2.4 MacBook Pro with LED display!

Yeah, again, expected on a notebook.

[l33r0y]

Another report from my local apple store. Now on a 20" aluminum iMac.

OMG - What a huge difference. This monitor s**cks. I owned a 20" for the better part of a year (just sold) and this monitor really does not compare...at all..

Anyways - the colors change dramatically as indicated in the first post.

I do not know diddly about monitors (well maybe a little:)) But the 20" monitor and the 24" monitor are completely different.

I did reset and re calibrate both
monitors to the same profiles again and retested using the first posts screen shots etc.

A couple of side notes - ALL the new aluminum iMacs have 2 gig of memory in them...I know they only ship with one - but obviously someone thought in this store to make sure they are all at 2 gig.

The 24" does not appear big at all - and the 20" looks tiny. I do mean tiny after sitting with the 24:)

PLayed a couple of movie trailers on the 24" - they looked gorgeous - and I do know fair bit about av - very nice detail contrast - could adjust the gamma to compensate for any black crush. With some playing - the 24" has a very, very, nice screen.

The glare fo dark scenes in this highly lit store was noticeable and if watching movies in a bright room or with sun behind you is part of your plan - you will hate the glass screen. For manyother purposes - text, brwosing, anything without a bright sunlit window behind you - you should be happy. Unless you are trying to color correct (photography) and in that case you will want a true color sceeen. This is pretty darn close btw - but not enough to color correct proffesionally...at least I would want a different screen for that if that was my job.

For everyone else - really nice.

Still liking the keyboard - have half as many typos as i usually generate.

Okay only here for another 30 minutes or so - ask any questions if you want!

Therese

Many thanks for your assistant, Therese!

One other question, how far back is the actual LCD panel from the glass? Is it right up close to the glass, or does it seem quite recessed?

[Dont Hurt Me]

Open the below attached GIF images in full screen (the thumbnails won't be so obvious)


If you are viewing this on a TN film based panel the colours will change depending on your vertical viewing angle.

- Purple:
From below, the colour will be close to pure blue
From above, it will appear a washed out bright purple
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3817/purpleww5.th.gif (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=purpleww5.gif)


- Green:
From below will be close to dark green
From above a washed out bright yellow
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/7563/greenzg7.th.gif (http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greenzg7.gif)


- Cyan:
From below will be almost pure blue
From above almost turquoise
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/4999/cyanzb4.th.gif (http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cyanzb4.gif)


- Grey:
From below will look black
From above white
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/4100/greyzg9.th.gif (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=greyzg9.gif)


If you are NOT getting these distortions, you do NOT have a TN film based panel - it will either be S-IPS or S-PVA.


Again, open the attached GIF images in full screen (the thumbnails won't be so obvious)

NOTE: All notebooks will produce this side effect as they all use TN Film panels. This is normal.

Thanks for participating!

LNice Post and thanks, I am looking at a TN Panel everyday and didnt know. NEC Monitor, well at least it doesnt have any dead pixels.:)

[wpwj40e]

Hmmmm. How to describe "how far back the panel is"........

Well...the entire front of the iMac is smooth. If you look at the panel portion - non aluminum part...there is a thin aluminum border of aprox .25 of an inch, then about an inch of black border and the screen. If you look at the black border portion, the actual screen is inset about .25" inch - similar to a picture frame.

Hope that helps.

Therese

[mkrishnan]

Interesting! Randomly aside, my 17" iMac G5 rev. B also shows the effect (although I'm sure you/someone already knows what panel is in it). It's quite interesting that there's an angle of viewing from below where the violet and turquoise images appear almost identical in shade! :eek:

[l33r0y]

Hmmmm. How to describe "how far back the panel is"........

Well...the entire front of the iMac is smooth. If you look at the panel portion - non aluminum part...there is a thin aluminum border of aprox .25 of an inch, then about an inch of black border and the screen. If you look at the black border portion, the actual screen is inset about .25" inch - similar to a picture frame.

Hope that helps.

Therese

Yes, thanks. I guess most of that .25" is the thickness of the glass itself.

I was concerned the panel was too far set back that would affect monitor calibration, for example. :)

[iStrat]

So am I to understand that Apple put an inferior screen in the 20" model compared to the 24" model? Why would they do that? I wanted to buy the 20" model. The 24" is bigger than I need or want and is more expensive. I already had to get over the whole GPU issue but now I have to deal with a cruddy screen too?

I didn't notice any difference when I checked them out at the Apple Store, but I wasn't really trying to compare them either. Does anyone have anything nice to say about the 20" screen so I can feel better about buying it?

[teerexx52]

So am I to understand that Apple put an inferior screen in the 20" model compared to the 24" model? Why would they do that? I wanted to buy the 20" model. The 24" is bigger than I need or want and is more expensive. I already had to get over the whole GPU issue but now I have to deal with a cruddy screen too?

I didn't notice any difference when I checked them out at the Apple Store, but I wasn't really trying to compare them either. Does anyone have anything nice to say about the 20" screen so I can feel better about buying it?

I bought a 20" base model the day after they were released and i couldn't be more pleased. My wife and i spent about an hour when we got home surfing and looking at home photos and we were amazed by how nice the screen is. We also didn't notice any difference in the 24" and 20" when side by side at Apple Store but really wasn't looking for anything particular. So anyways, we're happy and hope this helps you.

[mkaake]

So am I to understand that Apple put an inferior screen in the 20" model compared to the 24" model? Why would they do that? I wanted to buy the 20" model. The 24" is bigger than I need or want and is more expensive. I already had to get over the whole GPU issue but now I have to deal with a cruddy screen too?

I didn't notice any difference when I checked them out at the Apple Store, but I wasn't really trying to compare them either. Does anyone have anything nice to say about the 20" screen so I can feel better about buying it?

Hundreds of thousands of people use TN screens every day without issue - it's not the superior screen technology, but that doesn't mean it's junk - it just means that professionals (read: not you, or me for that matter), who rely on excellent color in their work (really true colors, no matter where or how they're looking at the screen) won't want to use the 20". For most all users, the 20" panel is just fine, though not as nice as the 24. Don't spend your time worrying about these nit-picky things, get the iMac, and you'll love it.

[suneohair]

Oh how i love my dual LG 24"ers :D

From below, they all look the same, from above and from the sides the same. Only when you hit really extreme angles do they change and basically become little more hot.

Hopefully the new iMac owners don't have color shifting as the OP suggests.

[Alloye]

I picked-up a new 20" today. While it does seem to exhibit the behaviour of a TN panel, the display is still quite good. It looks very bright, saturated, and vivid. Plus it has crisp, clean whites and decent black levels.

On gradients, there's no sudden jump on either end of the spectrum. Lesser TN panels often have an unusually large jump to pure white and almost no discernalbe difference between darker greys and black. The 20" iMac seems to have neither of those problems.

Viewing angles seem to be just fine. Not as good as S-PVA or (especially) S-IPS once you get off-center, but I don't notice any color shifts from a normal viewing position.

And of course the best news is that I have no dead or stuck pixels! :D

With the positive stuff out of the way, I do have one complaint: Apple blew it with the default ColorSync profile (again).

In a nutshell, the gamma curves they chose wash-out the display and make text look fuzzy. A quick run through the built-in calibrator will make a world of difference. I used expert mode and only just adjusted the brightness (left) sliders for now. It was like getting a new display. When I get a few extra minues, I'll get out my Eye-One Display 2 and create a more accurate profile.

The bottom line is that the new 20" iMac has a very good display, but just like my recent experience with the SR MacBook Pro, it needs proper calibration to look its best.

[SolrFlare]

So, we're not talking early '07 Macbook screen issues here with the viewing angle on the 20", but still noticeable between extremes?

Just verifying my impression of what people are saying here. If my impression is correct, I'm perfectly fine with the 20" as I have a really high quality, non-TN, secondary 20" display it will be hooked to as well.

If it is as noticeable as the macbook, however, I'll have to go with the 24 incher. I love my macbook to death for its portability and usefulness, but I don't want that extreme a difference in a desktop display.

edit: early '07 not 06 lol

[Alloye]

So, we're not talking early '07 Macbook screen issues here with the viewing angle on the 20", but still noticeable between extremes?

Pretty much. The MacBook has quite poor viewing angles IMHO. The new 20" iMac is nothing like that. I have to tilt the screeen to what would be an unacceptable viewing angle anyway before I notice any color shifts.

[Snide]

Interesting! Randomly aside, my 17" iMac G5 rev. B also shows the effect (although I'm sure you/someone already knows what panel is in it). It's quite interesting that there's an angle of viewing from below where the violet and turquoise images appear almost identical in shade! :eek:


That's interesting; I just tested on my Rev B 20" iMac G5, and there is almost
zero change, just a bit of darkening at the extreme angles. I do remember that
the 20" was said to have a larger viewing angle than the 17".

Conversely, on my Core 2 Duo Macbook, the colors shift exactly as described.
After working on the iMac, it's almost painful going back to the Macbook; the
iMac's screen is so much better and brighter. Long live the iMac G5! :)

[wizwaz3]

My 24" doesn't have color distortion, just light brightness issues that I assume are from the wretched matte film it has.

[mkrishnan]

That's interesting; I just tested on my Rev B 20" iMac G5, and there is almost zero change, just a bit of darkening at the extreme angles. I do remember that the 20" was said to have a larger viewing angle than the 17".

That is interesting. The horizontal viewing angle of the 17" is not bad, but the vertical effect is fairly dramatic. Head-on, it's gorgeous, though. :)

[lalutte]

It looks like the question about the 24" LCD type is answered here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4034688&posted=1#post4034688

It looks like it's still S-PVA (what ever happened to MVA?) :D

[wazgilbert]

To entertain anyone not needing 'professional' quality colour, consider my pc that will be retired as soon as I get paid this month ;)

2.08Ghz Athlon. on a 166Mhz FSB - AGP 128m Gfx - 1.5Gb mismatched ram.

17" TFT - definitely TN - those images at full screen showed the colour change instantly I opened them, from a head-on user viewing position. No need to move my head at all!! The top of the screen was dark, the middle vivid and the bottom washed out. Moving around is just like playing with a kid's kalaeidoscope!

iMac ahoy!

[lukechip]

where did this info on the 2600 come from ???


Awesome, good news on all fronts.

24" is not TN.

Hd 2600 pro is actually a custom made card for apple.

Glossy screen can be fixed with screen protector.

I heard the 2.8 is overclockable??

Cool...:cool::apple:

[RRK]

where did this info on the 2600 come from ???

Apple press said it was a 2600 pro. Windows said it was a mobility 2600 xt, and System profiler said 2600 pro but has mobility 2600 xt part number. Then someone called Apple and the rep. said it was a custom card made just for Apple.

[lukechip]

is there such a thing as mobility 2600 xt, and if so, how does it compare to the 2600 pro

Apple press said it was a 2600 pro. Windows said it was a mobility 2600 xt, and System profiler said 2600 pro but has mobility 2600 xt part number. Then someone called Apple and the rep. said it was a custom card made just for Apple.

[mmzplanet]

My new 20" iMac (Aluminum) does it.

[Tyr.]

No dramatic color changes on the new 24" iMac as you describe them. Of course color changes somewhat at extreme viewing angles, but nothing like you describe.

[ljf5000]

Glossy screen can be fixed with screen protector.



Question regarding this:
Where would you find a screen protector this size? Do you mean a device that hangs over the screen, or a film that adheres to the glass?

I found a good anti-reflection film, but don't have an imac to test it on. The question remaining is whether the 0.25" from the glass+anti-reflection film to the actual LCD panel will distort the image (the films are designed to adhere directly to the LCD panel itself).

Anybody care to test out the film with their new imac to see how much it helps? let me know...

p.s. apple really dropped the ball with this stupid glossy screen. I'm thinking about pulling off the glass permanently when I get one

[Snide]

Just returned from the Apple Store (had 2005 iMac wireless mouse replaced
with Mighty Mouse under Applecare - woot!). Ran the color-shift tests on new 20"
and 24" iMacs. While the 20" has the radical color shift, the 24" does not, and
the display is at least as good as my Rev B iMac G5, if not better (gloss not withstanding).

[blueicedj]

No change in the colors on my new 24" iMac, so it looks to be all good, though I never did that stand on your head while rubbing your belly and squinting to see if the colors distorted at all, oh well, it's great with me:)

[Coprolite]

I fear that I may have been spoiled with my G5 RevB iMac screen.

I was thinking about getting a nice little MBP with the next upgrade (not to mention Leopard), but my love of screen real estate and beautiful colors and viewing angle may not make this so attractive any more...

Lets just hope that some future updates iron out all these issues... ;)

[kheller2]

I fear that I may have been spoiled with my G5 RevB iMac screen.

I was thinking about getting a nice little MBP with the next upgrade (not to mention Leopard), but my love of screen real estate and beautiful colors and viewing angle may not make this so attractive any more...

Lets just hope that some future updates iron out all these issues... ;)

Which screen is that? I didn't think the G5's used anything but TN.

[Peteypan]

The new 24" iMac has an H-IPS panel, the same panel used in the old 24" I think.

The ACD 23" uses an S-IPS panel, an H-IPS panel is the same panel with a coating so it doesn't go purple at extreme angles.

I'm sure I read this on macrumors.com somewhere so a search should turn something up.

[Coprolite]

Which screen is that? I didn't think the G5's used anything but TN.

The 17" were TN and 20" were S-IPS, AFAIK.

:)

My monitor also passes all the "display tests" that have been flying around recently...