why is everyone so negative about the iMac?

[blueicedj]

I was really excited about making the switch to mac, and was gonna wait for the new iMac to be released to make the switch, everyone seemed really excited about it...but now all I hear on this site is negative talk about it...bad video chips, failing screens, it not being worth the money...A little less happy about getting it..just wondering why there was such a negative pull towards this product? Is it really all that bad? Would I just be better off going back to a PC?

[atari1356]

No, it's really not all bad. Mostly the new iMac is very very good. Certainly much better than reverting to PC land.

This always happens when a new Mac is released. People have been waiting for it to come out for a long time... so if it doesn't match expectations exactly, then there are a lot of complaints.

Overall the new iMac is great - personally I'm just a bit surprised that they don't offer a matte screen option. Others are concerned that the video cards used aren't good enough for their needs.

You have to decide what your needs are, and base your decision on that... not on the countless whining posts by myself and others. ;)

[mrkramer]

really the main things people are complaining about is they want to be able to run the newest games at max settings, and the glossy screen, if gaming isn't a big issue for you then go to a store and see if the glossy display bothers you or not, and decide from that

[David G.]

Also realize that the iMac isn't the only computer that Apple sells.:rolleyes: If you go and look at the computers you may decide that the Mac mini is all you need or that you would actually prefer a Mac notebook (it's possible.)

[Tommy Tallarico]

why is everyone so negative about the iMac?I didn't get this memo.

[inkswamp]

I was really excited about making the switch to mac, and was gonna wait for the new iMac to be released to make the switch, everyone seemed really excited about it...but now all I hear on this site is negative talk about it...bad video chips, failing screens, it not being worth the money...A little less happy about getting it..just wondering why there was such a negative pull towards this product? Is it really all that bad? Would I just be better off going back to a PC?

The iMac is a good machine. The Ars Technica review shows that. What you're seeing here is the result of Mac fans waiting for almost a full year for a significant update and what we got was... well, not all that impressive.

First, the basic look of the machine is still pretty much the same. All this time for some minor design tweaks is really a let down and the gripes that people had with the old design weren't addressed. The primary complaint that most people had about it was the chin and that's still there. Personally, I detest the black border around the screen. That's just flat-out awful.

Secondly, the specs on the machines were bumped, but it was nothing impressive, especially after this long a wait. It was really an incremental thing. From what I've seen, it's a good machine, but not knock-your-socks-off good.

Third, it appears that Apple is still using some components intended for laptops, presumably to keep the heat of the machine low. I know it's been argued here endlessly that the difference between mobile and desktop components nowadays is almost negligible, but still. If you're buying a desktop machine, you should get a desktop machine.

Fourth, the glossy screen should be optional. I loathe glossy screens. My vision sucks as it is and any reduction in glare, no matter how minor it may seem to others, is a positive thing for me. I do not understand why Apple couldn't have made that an option.

Fifth, I'm still up in the air as to whether or not the new design is actually better than the old. The new look is a mishmash. The keyboard and mouse don't match the brushed metal look or the black back of the machine. And the sleek, minimalist look is ruined by this duct tape band of black around the display? Huh? This new look just doesn't gel for me. Did Jonathan Ive really design this mess?

Sixth, Apple touts their machines as your multimedia hub and yet, from the complaints I'm hearing, the lack of connectivity and lack of video muscle in the iMacs place them firmly behind their PC counterparts in terms of HD and video.

Seventh, what new features does this iMac offer that the previous version didn't? I'm still trying to figure that out. Every major redesign of the iMac has come with something impressive added on. This didn't.

Eighth, still not user-serviceable beyond the RAM. C'mon... Apple, you can do better.

Ninth, the loss of the low-end, sub-$1000 iMac. I don't understand what Apple is thinking. It's a consumer machine, and Apple now lacks an offering in the price range that many consumers will budget for. That makes no sense. I know someone who has changed his mind about buying a Mac specifically because of this missing iMac. He's now shopping around for a PC.

So, that's most of it. There are more specific complaints out there, but that covers about 95% of it. I was planning to buy a new machine early next year to replace my iMac G4, but now I'm stumped. I don't know what to do. I really do not want this new iMac and I'm not interested in spending as much as it takes to get a Mac Pro (and display.) From my point of view, Apple screwed this up. It seems they are spending too much time and energy on their phone and made a halfhearted effort with the iMac.

[daneoni]

The two major complaints i've heard thus far is the black border on the bezel and the fact that Glossy screen is non changeable and these are valid.....for the most part. I dont mind the black border.

People have to understand that current macs are being made to look like the iPhone/Leopard's new UI which is Black/unified metal. Heck even apple's website uses this scheme and this isn't really a bad thing

All other complaints are as a result of people wanting a Mac Pro-like desktop for the iMac price. i.e 512MB Graphics card, Quad core processore, 8GB of RAM 2TB of HDD etc and thats just not gonna happen.

The iMac has its target audience (Simple powerful desktop for general non high-end computing audience), you're either in that audience...or not.

[Blue Velvet]

...just wondering why there was such a negative pull towards this product?


Because 90% of people who are iMac buyers are those who are happy to go and buy the damned things and have no interest in posting on forums about their Macs.

And then there are those who are seemingly happy in their misery, eternally waiting for the perfect machine, fetishing their computers beyond reason and who post incessantly about what displeases them and how Apple are making huge mistakes.

I'm a designer, the computer is a tool. Apart from a couple of spec questions and some reading, when I need a new Mac, I go out and buy the best one that I can afford. Same with the work Macs. It's simple... and if a new model is released six weeks later, I don't weep and moan because the Mac I've just bought still works exactly the same.

And because I'm a designer, using Windows isn't a realistic option... so why people get upset about things that they're not going to change is the reason why most of these complaints fall on deaf ears.

What's the betting that in twelve months time, we'll hear of record iMac sales?

Here's some good news. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=340390)

[Markleshark]

The truth

Amen to that.

Complaining around here, is I'm afraid, the order of the day.

[AlBDamned]

I thought the new ones were damn ugly when they were launched, then I saw one in a Nextbyte shop on Friday and instantly I wanted one, especially seeing as the 20" is now cheaper than the 17" ones we got for the office twp months ago.

I'm not a big fan of the black bezel, or the circa 1980's car-roof-vinyl look of the back, but overall they're pretty amazing machines for the money, and they do indeed look miles better than any PC I've ever seen.

[Reiger]

I really think that the main problem with the new iMacs is that many people haven't seen them in person. I was looking at the pictures, and I didn't like them at all. It all seemed so wrong, the colors, the wide black strip around the screen. The keyboard with white keys, while the iMac is black and aluminium.

BUT, you know what, when you see the new iMac in person it is just beautiful. The new iMac is a lot thinner than its predecessor. The aluminium and glass looks beautiful and really expensive. The new keyboard is incredibly thin and matches the iMac perfectly.

Basicly, what I'm trying to say is, go to a store and see it, because it's yet another great design.

[CrackedButter]

Personally for me its the glossy screen, it would have been nice if we were given the option, but now the only real machine to do photo editing on is the Mac Pro, MacBook Pro or the Mac Mini.

I'm on a MacBook sadly stuck with a glossy screen doing a photography course, I'm so boned!

[davidjearly]

...personally I'm just a bit surprised that they don't offer a matte screen option...

...and the glossy screen, if gaming isn't a big issue for you then go to a store and see if the glossy display bothers you or not, and decide from that...

Fourth, the glossy screen should be optional. I loathe glossy screens.

...the fact that Glossy screen is non changeable and these are valid.....for the most part.

I don't think that this a glossy display. It is a matte display with a sheet of glass in front of it which gives the impression of glossy. Offering matte is not as simple an option as it would be MacBook Pros as it would require a different front design for the two models.

The glossy display is not even an issue anyway. People just here the word glossy and start to jump on the bandwagon. Has anyone here even considered how it would integrate where they intend to use it? I mean, who would want light to be shining off their monitor anyway. I've always tried to position my desktops away from the window and harsh lights as they tend to ash out the colours anyway.


I'm on a MacBook sadly stuck with a glossy screen doing a photography course, I'm so boned!

No you are not. Even most professionals don't find glossy screens *that* intrusive, so I highly doubt someone doing a course is going to be 'boned'.

[CrackedButter]

This is NOT a glossy display. It is a matte display with a sheet of glass in front of it which gives the impression of glossy. Offering matte is not as simple an option as it would be MacBook Pros as it would require a different front design for the two models.

The glossy display is not even an issue anyway. People just here the word glossy and start to jump on the bandwagon. Has anyone here even considered how it would integrate where they intend to use it? I mean, who would want light to be shining off their monitor anyway. I've always tried to position my desktops away from the window and harsh lights as they tend to ash out the colours anyway.




No you are not. Even most professionals don't find glossy screens *that* intrusive, so I highly doubt someone doing a course is going to be 'boned'.


This is why I've made a thread about it to actually find out if this is true. The thing is, any editing I do with this screen is going to be different when I transfer it to the iMac with the printer.

I also meant "boned" in a comedic fashion, I'm not being 100% serious.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

This is NOT a glossy display.
Apple seems to think so: http://www.apple.com/imac/technology/display.html



Oh, and BTW, I love the glossy screen on my MacBook. I can use it in almost every lighting condition there is (the only exception is strong light from behind me, which would render most screens useless anyway).

[davidjearly]

Apple seems to think so: http://www.apple.com/imac/technology/display.html



Oh, and BTW, I love the glossy screen on my MacBook. I can use it in almost every lighting condition there is (the only exception is strong light from behind me, which would render most screens useless anyway).

Yeah, I understand how Apple are marketing it but I just can't see it being a glossy display and then a glass front as well. As for what you said about the MacBook, I couldn't agree more. I think people make glossy out to be more than a problem that it actually is.

[AlBDamned]

I can use it in almost every lighting condition there is (the only exception is strong light from behind me, which would render most screens useless anyway).

Exactly. And if most people realised the gaps between keys on the new keyboard are merely an aesthetic change rather than an operational change, then they'd quit moaning about that too. Unfortunately, most people are thicks as two short planks when it comes to points like this.

[gnasher729]

I was really excited about making the switch to mac, and was gonna wait for the new iMac to be released to make the switch, everyone seemed really excited about it...but now all I hear on this site is negative talk about it...bad video chips, failing screens, it not being worth the money...A little less happy about getting it..just wondering why there was such a negative pull towards this product? Is it really all that bad? Would I just be better off going back to a PC?

1. People like to complain.

2. People who dislike something about the new iMacs are hundred times more likely to post here than people who like them.

3. Whenever people complain, consider that they have very very high expectations. The same people wouldn't complain about a Dell, because the Dell is so bad, it isn't even worth complaining about!

4. Very occasionally I have written to companies how they could improve their products. I've only ever done this when I really liked the product, but felt it could be made even better. I wouldn't ever do that with a product that I didn't like. To all manufacturers: If you get complaints, that is sign that you are doing a good job! No complaints means nobody cares.

5. One important thing: You can only buy Macs from Apple. If you want to buy a PC, and you don't like what Dell does, you don't complain, you go to HP, or Toshiba, or Acer, and see what they have. If you don't like something that Apple does, you can't do that, so you complain.

All that said, I think even the biggest complainers here would never, ever consider getting a PC instead of a new iMac.

[Dont Hurt Me]

1. People like to complain.

2. People who dislike something about the new iMacs are hundred times more likely to post here than people who like them.

3. Whenever people complain, consider that they have very very high expectations. The same people wouldn't complain about a Dell, because the Dell is so bad, it isn't even worth complaining about!

4. Very occasionally I have written to companies how they could improve their products. I've only ever done this when I really liked the product, but felt it could be made even better. I wouldn't ever do that with a product that I didn't like. To all manufacturers: If you get complaints, that is sign that you are doing a good job! No complaints means nobody cares.

5. One important thing: You can only buy Macs from Apple. If you want to buy a PC, and you don't like what Dell does, you don't complain, you go to HP, or Toshiba, or Acer, and see what they have. If you don't like something that Apple does, you can't do that, so you complain.

All that said, I think even the biggest complainers here would never, ever consider getting a PC instead of a new iMac.Good Post but I did just that a year ago, bought a Dell E521 and put in a 7600GS & TV Tuner.:)Its been solid as can be plus I got a free Vista upgrade which is I dont plan on using for awhile.
Your 100% right about the complaints. Its Mac vs Mac and you cant go anywhere else. Its take what they give you with the crippling or PC land. Its clear Apple uses its GPU's as a form of crippling. iMac should also have a TV tuner option if its really a "media hub". The thinking at Apple smells of Profits & Politics wth the configurations they dream up. A desktop thats really a laptop?

[rest44]

It´s not people complaining or expectiong to much; it was Apple puttng the bar really high!

1 - They keep us waiting 1 year. Everyone was expecting better.

2 - They gave us the "all in one world" design, for pros and consumers. And stuck a glossy screen that doesn´t work for pros.

3 - They talked so much about games in WWDC. They stuck a low GPU that doesn´t please gamers.

4 - Acessories don´t match the new design. That´s lamme! And with a redesign of the keyboard, there´s no excuse for that!

5 - Remote doesn´t stick on the iMac anymore. How can they skip a lovely detail? Finished the iMacs in a rush? :x

6 - You can´t please Greeks and Troyans. Consumer and Professional demands/needs/tastes are diferent. Bring us 2 iMac lines: One for pros (make it all aluminium with matte display), other for consumers (make it all black, with glossy and option for a gamers GPU)

my 2 cents

[Tonerl]

From what I've seen on various sites, the (non-)glossy screen could trouble anyone who has a window or light behind them when seated at their iMac. I can live with that but I worry about heat. Some reviews have mentioned that the machine gets hot or 'toasty'. Hot components have a short life-span. My conclusion? I shall wait for 6 months or more to see how reliable this kit is.

[mick4394]

Two things.

1. A lot of Mac people, me included, were hoping for something truly different. This really seems like more of the same. It pretty much looks like the same iMac, made out of aluminum. We've seen some drastic changes with the iMac in the past. This was predictable.

2. It's not white. Specifically, the Apple logo isn't white. It's small, but in the Mac community, it's important. The black Apple is really rubbing a lot of people the wrong way.

[DaBrain]

I was really excited about making the switch to mac, and was gonna wait for the new iMac to be released to make the switch, everyone seemed really excited about it...but now all I hear on this site is negative talk about it...bad video chips, failing screens, it not being worth the money...A little less happy about getting it..just wondering why there was such a negative pull towards this product? Is it really all that bad? Would I just be better off going back to a PC?

I converted to a Mac about 1.5 years ago after over 20 years with windows and a small amount of time with an Amiga (which I miss a lot ).

I got a 20 in iMac first intel out core duo and I gotta tell ya IM very happy with it.

What dissapointed me is all the hype by apple and their innovation which I see everytime I use my iMac. However, this itteration of iMacs, to me really was an evolution rather then innovation.

I guess I expected a lot more in the design area.

I think the new iMacs look ok, BUT they are the same shape and format as the exsisting iMac.

Then there's Jonathan Ives that designs for apple.
When I see a white power cord, white mouse and basically there appears to be little thought to color coordination which dissapointed me. I felt this was going to be a real mind blowing completely new model.

As for the Glossy screen, I have never used one, but seeing PC's in local stores (we have no apple store here) with glossy screen, they appear to look very nice. IM sure one could always place a glossy screen at an angle or in an environment where it would show reflections, but on the other hand IM sure the opposite would be true--)))

In the Graphics arena, there's a lot of dissapointment that I must say apple tends to bring on themselves. They hype things so much that when a release comes it doesn't live up to the hype. Such as when earlier this year at the WWDC they have ID and EA speak about and demo games that will be coming to the Mac which get's all gamers thinking Yeah Baby! But what happens, Apple release new hyped iMacs with GPU's that many feel are of a low quality. So that gets people complaining!

Also there's a lot of passion here as many Mac owners LOVE their Macs, because of the OS and their design. Personnaly I have no plans on ever going back to windows pc's and I built plenty of them.

Finally, if I was in the market for another or a new Mac I would not hesitate to buy the current iMac! :D

[DrBunsenHoneyde]

I completely agree with all the people hating the fact that all the complaints come here and make all the good things about the imac's get covered in false mass opinions.

If you look at it all objectively its completely understandable why they have these 'slow' graphics cards in them, heat. imac's are all in one units as people said that nice 8 series chip they they have in the mac /bookpro's kick out quite alot of heat and thankfully they have good enough air circulation in the pro's to get those things cool enough. in the design of the imac's that everyone loves so much (and im talking old design here) even that wouldn't have worked with the 8 series cards. There is a reason they chose ATI and that as i said is because of heat.

I really dont think the issue with laptop components over desktop components should be included any more because the price of these components are pretty much similar and also the power.

I use a glossy macbook pro screen for my photo editing, and I am in design and photography and to be honest I have compared the two side by side on macbook pro's and actually they both have their benefits over color matching when printing. glossy doesn't matter any more.

Now this point I dont totally understand myself but as a PC based gamer I know that apple's work under openGL, which means that with the need of gaming at a much lower state on a imac why should they think about puting the best card on the machine, thats why macbook pro's are so expensive, you have all the high end choices. imac's start at nearly the same kind of prices as a macbook, doesnt that say something?

and yes I love the new imac's but cant afford one currently but I have used a friends and been drooling all over them in my local mac store.

Its a shame that threads like this come about because this is one of the reasons I find it hard to currently read macrumors, its either I hate blah blah or a post about people waiting for the new mac of their choice a week after the new one has been released.

[TheSilencer]

Well, I watched the keynote now... It was bit different. I remember the Mac Mini INTEL town hall introduction which was cool but the new iMac introduction? SJ is talking around 12 minutes about it but then headed directly to applications, no close ups from the new iMac, no demoing the keyboard. Almost ten minutes later he showed the new iMac. Till that time it looks like "yeah, we got new iMac, shall we show it to you in real? Oh well, it isn´t that big deal somehow." to me. It feels as it isn´t really that important only nice to know that they are out now.


OpenGL isn´t that bad for games. Why? It´s open! It gives developer more abilities to programm new routines. It´s OS independent, so you can get games and apps running on windows, unix and linux. It gives you the SAME effects as DirectX 10 with a OGL Shader 4.0 pipe in the graphics driver. Apple introduced multi threaded OGL for OSX, which is a really nice concept.


However, the iMac is built for the casual consumer and it´s ok there but I like the older ones more, they have a more straight design IMO.

[inkswamp]

I completely agree with all the people hating the fact that all the complaints come here and make all the good things about the imac's get covered in false mass opinions.

Huh? This isn't Digg. It's MacRumors.com. There are a few trolls, but it's mostly Mac fans and users posting here. If you're seeing a large number of negative opinions about the iMac, perhaps you should consider what people are saying. It's not some kind of conspiracy.

And for all the talk I hear about how great these new iMacs are, I see very little specifics from those defending it. What I see is mostly this starry-eyed Apple-can-do-no-wrong thing that gets a little irritating.

What exactly is so great about this new iMac? What sets it apart from the previous iMac? With each major redesign, you were able to point to something new and cool about the machine, some fundamental design or feature that made it a significant leap ahead of its predecessor, something that made you swear off the old design in favor of the new one.

So what is so amazing about this new iMac that it required a special event to unveil? Especially after a year of waiting. IMO, Apple spent too much time on the iPhone and made a halfhearted effort with the iMac. It's too bad. It's been a great line of computers so far.

I use a glossy macbook pro screen for my photo editing, and I am in design and photography and to be honest I have compared the two side by side on macbook pro's and actually they both have their benefits over color matching when printing. glossy doesn't matter any more.

I've worked in design as well and color matching isn't import to all aspects of design work. And there's little evidence that a glossy screen makes better color. In fact, from what I've read, it oversaturates and darkens the color too much. LCDs are inferior to CRTs for color range to begin with. A glossy screen is not going to fix that.


Its a shame that threads like this come about because this is one of the reasons I find it hard to currently read macrumors, its either I hate blah blah or a post about people waiting for the new mac

Do you need everyone to agree with you to be happy? If you like the iMac, then great. There are many of us who feel it was a bad effort on Apple's part and there are some fatal flaws in this revision of the machine. (For me, personally, the glossy screen is going to be an issue. I have lousy eyesight and ANY glare off the screen causes me trouble. I love the matte screen because it's much easier for me to deal with.) That's just the reality of it. If you can't handle dissenting points of view, you probably shouldn't be on the Internet.

[iSee]

I was really excited about making the switch to mac, and was gonna wait for the new iMac to be released to make the switch, everyone seemed really excited about it...but now all I hear on this site is negative talk about it...bad video chips, failing screens, it not being worth the money...A little less happy about getting it..just wondering why there was such a negative pull towards this product? Is it really all that bad? Would I just be better off going back to a PC?

Some people get mad when the computer they've been waiting for isn't everything they hoped it would be--of course it never is, so they are doomed to be unhappy every time around.

As far as I can tell, the best knocks against the new iMac is the lack of a non-glossy option. Glossy only hurts in some situations, but anyone in those situations can no longer consider an iMac (well, not the latest ones).

The other major knock is the lack of a powerful gaming video card option. Actually, nothing in the history of iMac development suggests Apple would provide such an option, but with the recent push to release major new games on the Mac plus the boot camp gaming option, this was the best chance yet. You've got to wonder if Apple is walking away from a big opportunity here.

The complaints about the design are pretty pointless. It's completely a matter of personal opinion, so I can't argue with the the-black-border-is-horrendous people. But I think it's just the normal knee-jerk reaction some people have new designs. Anyway, you should wait 'til you see one in person before you judge it. They are really quite impressive. The sleek shape of black glass and aluminum is beautiful. To anyone comparing it to the black and silver plastic designs used in many consumer electronics designs, please see the machine in person.

[zap2]

I'm impressed with the iMac...however I wish the back was silver. My mother and I went to see the iMac, and she said it looked more like a dell.


It was an interesting though.....at first I disagreed, but now I she where she was coming from.


And now, Apple losing the white look :(

[inkswamp]

The complaints about the design are pretty pointless. It's completely a matter of personal opinion, so I can't argue with the the-black-border-is-horrendous people. But I think it's just the normal knee-jerk reaction some people have new designs.

I've been enamored of every revision of the iMac since its beginning but this one is badly conceived. And it's not all a matter of opinion. There are objective ways to look at it.

For a design to succeed, it should at least be consistent. This new design is all over the board. The mouse doesn't match the keyboard. The keyboard has a different look to it than the iMac itself. The front of the iMac looks like it was trying to be sleek and minimalist, but then you have this awful duct tape-like border around the screen that interrupts that. Then, the back of the machine is a whole different aesthetic that neither matches the front of the machine nor the keyboard/mouse.

You can get away with all this as long as there is some overriding element to the design that ties them all together, but I don't see it. From a design perspective, it's a near-random mishmash and possibly one of the least inspired things Apple has ever put out.

[thomasp]

That's the trouble with the Internet, and especially forums in general - more people complain than praise.

I dropped my PowerBook off at an AppleStore yesterday for repair (with a problem that, according to The Internet, is very widespread, but realistically probably affects less than 0.01% of the machines) and had a look at the glossy iMacs at the same time.

We all know how brightly Apple light their stores - not the best conditions for viewing a glossy screen in. However, I couldn't see what all the fuss was about - only at a couple of random angles which I'd never dream of looking at a computer screen from could I get any screenglare bad enough to upset my work (my dad agreed with me as he was there at the time - he's a photographer who still uses an old CRT display which is, guess what, glossy!).

In my opinion, the black border to the screen helps reduce the "chin" the iMac has, and I like it, but that's my opinion.


I think people are blowing this whole Glossy Screen thing out of proportion - what were we using 5 years ago when the G3 iMac was out, with its CRT screen? We were using CRT monitors, which have a large sheet of glossy glass in front of them. Yes, the Classic iMac had a supposed "Matte" screen, but it's definitely glossy compared to the MacBook Pro (matte screen) I'm currently typing from.


I'm sure we'll all adapt if computer manufacturers decide that glossy screens are the way forward. If the worst comes to the worst, you can always chop up 3 pieces of cardboard and duct tape them around the top and sides of your screen to shield the light :D

[inkswamp]

I think people are blowing this whole Glossy Screen thing out of proportion - what were we using 5 years ago when the G3 iMac was out, with its CRT screen? We were using CRT monitors, which have a large sheet of glossy glass in front of them.

Maybe you have better than average eyesight. For some of us, any glare, no matter how insignificant to others, causes problems. I'm like that. There's no reason Apple couldn't have made this optional.

And, yes, I know we used to have glossy CRTs way back, but the switch to LCDs was a godsend to me. I would never go back and so therefore, even as a Mac fan, I can't buy this new iMac. Any or even faint reflections of a reflective surface like that can be very tiring on my eyes and cause eyestrain. I haven't ever experienced that with an LCD. For some of us, this glossy thing is an unwelcome step backward.

And contrary to what's being commonly said around here, the glossy surface oversaturating and darkening the colors is not doing any favors for designers out there.

[craig1410]

Hi,
Speaking as someone who was almost put off buying an iMac by the comments about the glossy screen, having now bought one I can categorically say that it is not a problem (for me at least). I appreciate we each have different tolerances to this but I honestly can't see any glare even when I am looking for it. Only when the iMac is switched off are reflections visible.

Even when I viewed the machine in the Scotsys shop in Glasgow I didn't find the reflections a problem although you could certainly see them. This is a brightly lit shop with south facing windows along the whole side of the shop so it couldn't be any less favourable. I think the brightness of the screen and the fact that the reflections are at least twice as far away from you as the screen itself prevents your eyes from focussing on them.

Cheers,
Craig.

[AlBDamned]

I would never go back and so therefore, even as a Mac fan, I can't buy this new iMac. Any or even faint reflections of a reflective surface like that can be very tiring on my eyes and cause eyestrain. I haven't ever experienced that with an LCD. For some of us, this glossy thing is an unwelcome step backward.

And contrary to what's being commonly said around here, the glossy surface oversaturating and darkening the colors is not doing any favors for designers out there.

But if you're a serious designer who needs a Mac and a matte screen then why don't you just buy a Mac Pro and separate screen? Or maybe spend $300 more and get a second screen for the iMac?

There are plenty of solutions or options out there. If you're a pro and you need different kit then get it?

And I doubt the vast majority of people buying iMacs are intending to use them for professional photo editing. Such people probably make up a tiny percentage of users.

[trojanman2011]

A lot of people dislike the glossy screen due to the glare, myself included. However, many people are rumbling about their lack of color accuracy for things like design and editing. This is not true. The new iMac usues a Glass layering over the traditional LCD screen, therefore remaining color accurate. The glossy macbooks and macbook pros use a finish that refracts the light between the screen and the finish layer to artificially saturate the color.

So aside from the glare, pro users should still be able to enjoy accuracy in their screens.

[megfilmworks]

A lot of people dislike the glossy screen due to the glare, myself included. However, many people are rumbling about their lack of color accuracy for things like design and editing. This is not true. The new iMac usues a Glass layering over the traditional LCD screen, therefore remaining color accurate. The glossy macbooks and macbook pros use a finish that refracts the light between the screen and the finish layer to artificially saturate the color.

So aside from the glare, pro users should still be able to enjoy accuracy in their screens.That is a very interesting point, quite a difference. Although I would not buy an iMac, I like the pro models, it sure looks nice in the pictures. Beautiful design, sure to be copied by the Dells of the world.

[daneoni]

A lot of people dislike the glossy screen due to the glare, myself included. However, many people are rumbling about their lack of color accuracy for things like design and editing. This is not true. The new iMac usues a Glass layering over the traditional LCD screen, therefore remaining color accurate. The glossy macbooks and macbook pros use a finish that refracts the light between the screen and the finish layer to artificially saturate the color.

So aside from the glare, pro users should still be able to enjoy accuracy in their screens.

Finally.

Post of the year.

[booksacool1]

There are really only two things I dislike about the imac
-The graphics. HD2600... why oh why. It will NOT handle new games at stock 24" resolution. Any company developing mac games must be so pissed right now.
-1GB ram. At least its single stick (****ing finally) but still, I wouldn't use a new machine with less than 1.5gb nowadays.

A few other little nit-picking points
-upgrading the second last model to the last models specs results in no price difference (2.8ghz, 2gb, 500gb). Normally there is some 'bonus' in buying the most expensive model, but not here.
-Would be nice if apple had some sort of included tv tuner.
-Not enough USB ports still

Otherwise its a nice machine. Pity about the graphics though...

[K-Funk]

I have a crazy idea for everyone who doesn't like the new iMac -- Don't buy one.

People seem to think that they are somehow entitled to getting exactly the product they want. Apple is a business, and they designed the new iMac in a way that they think will maximize profits.

Perhaps Apple made a poor business decision by not making matte an option, or by not making the color of the keyboard/mouse match the display, but the way to register your complaint is simply by not buying one.

[inkswamp]

I have a crazy idea for everyone who doesn't like the new iMac -- Don't buy one.

In other words, Apple can do wrong and those who think otherwise need to sit down and shut up.

Nice.

But if you're a serious designer who needs a Mac and a matte screen then why don't you just buy a Mac Pro and separate screen? Or maybe spend $300 more and get a second screen for the iMac?

I'm not a "serious designer." I was simply responding to the defense I keep hearing that the glossy screen gives you better color accuracy. It doesn't. Serious designers who need the broadest color range shouldn't be using LCDs to begin with as they have not yet matched the CRTs. I was just responding to that assertion.

A lot of people dislike the glossy screen due to the glare, myself included. However, many people are rumbling about their lack of color accuracy for things like design and editing. This is not true. The new iMac usues a Glass layering over the traditional LCD screen, therefore remaining color accurate.

That whole argument is a red herring. LCDs are not the way to go for the best color range. They are getting very close, but have not yet matched the CRT for color display (at least, that was true last year when I investigated it for my employer.) To argue this color issue one way or the other is sort of missing the point.

[Tonerl]

Since nobody has replied to my original post, I must assume that iMac users don't care about their computers being hot. I've been using personal computers since the days of the Tandy TRS80 and can tell you that hot components fail sooner than components that are merely warm.

Though I like the look of the new iMac and could even put up with the (non-)glossy screen, I'm not over-concerned about prettiness: a computer is for doing work with, after all. However, I worry about the reports that say the machines run hot - unless Apple is using the aluminium frame to dissipate heat and the insides are much cooler as a result. Is anyone willing to share their quantitative info on this aspect?

[devman]

There's no reason Apple couldn't have made this optional.

sure there is: ROI.

Two SKUs vs one.

[craig1410]

Since nobody has replied to my original post, I must assume that iMac users don't care about their computers being hot. I've been using personal computers since the days of the Tandy TRS80 and can tell you that hot components fail sooner than components that are merely warm.

Though I like the look of the new iMac and could even put up with the (non-)glossy screen, I'm not over-concerned about prettiness: a computer is for doing work with, after all. However, I worry about the reports that say the machines run hot - unless Apple is using the aluminium frame to dissipate heat and the insides are much cooler as a result. Is anyone willing to share their quantitative info on this aspect?

I can only speak for my 24" iMac but it doesn't get anywhere near what I would call hot. The best measurement I can take is using a childs forehead thermometer strip. It reads the top dead centre of the case as 35-36 celsius which is hardly "hot" is it. I'm sure it will get a bit hotter than that while running a 3D game or doing some ray tracing but it's certainly no hotter than any other LCD screen I've owned even without a built in PC.

I hope this helps,
Craig.

[ascender]

Are we not getting conflicting wishes though?

People want the iMac casing to be smaller so that the chin will disappear. But surely the chin is only there because it has to be due to the amount/size of components inside it. Which are laptop based. So are they not as small as they reasonably can be at the moment in terms of available parts v design and cost?

Wanting desktop components seems to go completely against the whole point of the iMac and the design of it. If we were to get a full upgradable machine based around desktop components, I don't understand how they could make it look anything like the iMacs have done.

As far as gaming goes, the iMac has been doing OK since Boot Camp came in, but not great. You can play fairly new games, but have to turn the graphics options down. I think that's a fair trade-off considering the form factor and the fact its not designed for games. If you're wanting a serious games machine, the realistic options are to buy a console or a system which will allow you to replace the graphics card regularly. To be honest, that's one reason I gave up with PCs as I felt it was a losing battle and when you see how consoles like the 360 have developed, its a no-brainer choice for me when you look at the sums involved.

Glossy screens? I'd be interested to see how many people who've slated it for this feature have actually seen one with their own eyes before commenting.

Multi-touch? I couldn't believe the amount of posts on here about this subject over the last while. Did anyone really expect it to make it on the new iMac?

Specs? All benchmarks and reports seem to suggest a big improvement over the last iMacs. There's also the 2.8GHz BTO option if you want to pay a bit more for a more powerful machine. Given where the iMac is in the product lineup, the new specs seem to be spot on apart from the problems with the graphics cards if you want to play games.

I'm not sure I understand what people really want. Could Apple produce a mid-priced upgradable system for people who want to play games, while keeping a tight rein on OS X and ensuring it runs smoothly with every available upgrade option out there? Would they not have done this already if there was a market for it?

I think the new iMac is a clear step on the way to a final goal of an ultra-thin computer, similar to the mock-ups which appeared on here. Something without a chin, looking like a big iPhone turned on its side. Unfortunately the technology isn't quite there yet.

[craig1410]

Hi,
Just tried getting the temperature after running 100% CPU for 10 minutes or so and it maxed out at around 38 celsius as shown in the photo below.

It should be noted that the black rear of the machine gets a bit hotter than this but is still not what I'd call hot. I can put the inside of my forearm on it and it's not in the slightest bit uncomfortable. It is off the scale of my temp strip but not by much I don't think. Perhaps 42 celsius at the warmest spot which is 1/3rd of the way in from the left hand edge (viewed from the front).

I hope this helps to clarify the heat issue.
Cheers,
Craig.

[craig1410]

_

[oscillatewildly]

Talking about games -> expectations. Not top of the range GPU, but ...

Which came first, the case or the spec? Does the case have to get thinner?

Glossy screen - 2 months of dust will sort that.

[Tonerl]

Thank you, Craig, for providing some real-world data. I can't get to a store just now but will as soon as I can so that I can try the forearm test. It may be that the units that some reviewers had were unrepresentative.

[maccompaq]

From what I've seen on various sites, the (non-)glossy screen could trouble anyone who has a window or light behind them when seated at their iMac. I can live with that but I worry about heat. Some reviews have mentioned that the machine gets hot or 'toasty'. Hot components have a short life-span. My conclusion? I shall wait for 6 months or more to see how reliable this kit is.

The new iMac is thinner than the last version, so more heat will be trapped inside. Heat destroys electronic components. I want a Mac that will live longer than 2 years, so I will not be buying an iMac.

[devman]

The new iMac is thinner than the last version, so more heat will be trapped inside. Heat destroys electronic components. I want a Mac that will live longer than 2 years, so I will not be buying an iMac.

Um if they don't live longer than two years then Apple are on a go out of business strategy selling three-year applecare for only hundreds of dollars dont'cha think?

[craig1410]

The new iMac is thinner than the last version, so more heat will be trapped inside. Heat destroys electronic components. I want a Mac that will live longer than 2 years, so I will not be buying an iMac.

Um, didn't you see my post showing the actual temperature? :confused:
I can speak as an electronics engineer when I say that 38 or even 42 celsius isn't going to do anything bad for modern electronics. This sort of temperature is towards the lower end of normal. My work IBM thinkpad gets much hotter than this and has been known to leave my legs burning hot when I sit with it on my lap for any significant length of time.

One thing I would also like to point out - Apple have clearly designed the iMac very well from a heat point of view. If you have seen the disassembly pictures posted elsewhere on this forum you will see that the cool air intakes are at the bottom with centrifugal fans blowing air through heat pipe matrices and exiting at the top. This is why the chin of my iMac is cold to the touch despite being on all day today and the top is "warm" - all the heat is being vented upwards. The fans won't have much work to do because convection will do most of the work. I'd bet the internals are much cooler than the 38-42 celsius I have measured at the exhaust which must be the hottest part.

Cheers,
Craig.

[maccompaq]

Craig, thanks for the encouragement. I really really do want an iMac, so I have been reading a lot about them. One guy had a fan die in his Intel iMac thus the internal components fried. It was covered by warranty, but that is a huge hassle to give up the computer, wait for it to return and then have to reload everything. Not to mention all the personal financial information kept on the computer that would be in Apple's possession. Several of my family members had iMac G3's that died after 2 years. Always the logic board. Consequently, I am hesitant to commit to iMac.

All of my Macs & Compaqs, with the exception of a Mac laptop and a Windows laptop, are easy to get inside. I have replaced and also added hard drives and optical drives. Most of my computers have 2 hard drives inside the case. I really don't need 4 or 8 processors in a computer like the Mac Pro.

I might even consider a Mini, but I am not sure how hot they run. Can anyone help me with that info?

[craig1410]

Craig, thanks for the encouragement. I really really do want an iMac, so I have been reading a lot about them. One guy had a fan die in his Intel iMac thus the internal components fried. It was covered by warranty, but that is a huge hassle to give up the computer, wait for it to return and then have to reload everything. Not to mention all the personal financial information kept on the computer that would be in Apple's possession. Several of my family members had iMac G3's that died after 2 years. Always the logic board. Consequently, I am hesitant to commit to iMac.

All of my Macs & Compaqs, with the exception of a Mac laptop and a Windows laptop, are easy to get inside. I have replaced and also added hard drives and optical drives. Most of my computers have 2 hard drives inside the case. I really don't need 4 or 8 processors in a computer like the Mac Pro.

I might even consider a Mini, but I am not sure how hot they run. Can anyone help me with that info?

Glad to be of help.
I too am worried about the prospect of having to return my entire machine in the event of a failure. Normally I would also just get the cover off an replace the faulty component and be up and running in no time. Be aware that there is an encryption option in OS X which allows you to encrypt your files. Also, you can do what I am working on right now and keep a copy of everything on an external drive or file server.

I share your concerns but I'm not sure it is a big enough concern to take away the joy of owning such as well designed machine.

The Mac Mini is a better bet now that they are C2D but I'm not sure you can compare them with an iMac. Depends on what you're looking for maybe.

Good luck,
Craig.

[CaptainCaveMann]

I didn't get this memo.

It was all in the TPS report. Pay attention :D

[DesignerOnMac]

Firstly this a consumer machine, not a pro machine and it is built for that purpose! I worked selling computers retail for 7 years! I can not tell you all the computers that came back because people tried to replace something or install RAM!!!! Even after they brought in the brand and model number of their computer!! When I sold RAM I always, always, KNEW that it was coming back!!!

And did you think there was going to be this magical speed increase? Everyone knows Intel's road map! Give me a break!

The new iMac is thinner, and in aluminum! Very cool. This computer will do 95% of what the average Mary or Joe will need! Did you check the sales on iMac's??? Selling well, even the year old design!

Most of your complains are based on YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCES and not if the iMac will work for the poster!

Do you work at Apple to state they have spent more time on the iPhone than the MAC? I understand that Apple as a separate department for the iPhone than the Mac's. Mac's is Steve Jobs and I do not see that changing!

The iMac is a good machine. The Ars Technica review shows that. What you're seeing here is the result of Mac fans waiting for almost a full year for a significant update and what we got was... well, not all that impressive.

First, the basic look of the machine is still pretty much the same. All this time for some minor design tweaks is really a let down and the gripes that people had with the old design weren't addressed. The primary complaint that most people had about it was the chin and that's still there. Personally, I detest the black border around the screen. That's just flat-out awful.

Secondly, the specs on the machines were bumped, but it was nothing impressive, especially after this long a wait. It was really an incremental thing. From what I've seen, it's a good machine, but not knock-your-socks-off good.

Third, it appears that Apple is still using some components intended for laptops, presumably to keep the heat of the machine low. I know it's been argued here endlessly that the difference between mobile and desktop components nowadays is almost negligible, but still. If you're buying a desktop machine, you should get a desktop machine.

Fourth, the glossy screen should be optional. I loathe glossy screens. My vision sucks as it is and any reduction in glare, no matter how minor it may seem to others, is a positive thing for me. I do not understand why Apple couldn't have made that an option.

Fifth, I'm still up in the air as to whether or not the new design is actually better than the old. The new look is a mishmash. The keyboard and mouse don't match the brushed metal look or the black back of the machine. And the sleek, minimalist look is ruined by this duct tape band of black around the display? Huh? This new look just doesn't gel for me. Did Jonathan Ive really design this mess?

Sixth, Apple touts their machines as your multimedia hub and yet, from the complaints I'm hearing, the lack of connectivity and lack of video muscle in the iMacs place them firmly behind their PC counterparts in terms of HD and video.

Seventh, what new features does this iMac offer that the previous version didn't? I'm still trying to figure that out. Every major redesign of the iMac has come with something impressive added on. This didn't.

Eighth, still not user-serviceable beyond the RAM. C'mon... Apple, you can do better.

Ninth, the loss of the low-end, sub-$1000 iMac. I don't understand what Apple is thinking. It's a consumer machine, and Apple now lacks an offering in the price range that many consumers will budget for. That makes no sense. I know someone who has changed his mind about buying a Mac specifically because of this missing iMac. He's now shopping around for a PC.

So, that's most of it. There are more specific complaints out there, but that covers about 95% of it. I was planning to buy a new machine early next year to replace my iMac G4, but now I'm stumped. I don't know what to do. I really do not want this new iMac and I'm not interested in spending as much as it takes to get a Mac Pro (and display.) From my point of view, Apple screwed this up. It seems they are spending too much time and energy on their phone and made a halfhearted effort with the iMac.

[ezekielrage_99]

I didn't get this memo.

Me either.... I find that my iMac is fantastic it really was an excellent purchase.

[DanMan2000]

I didn't get this memo.

I just sent you the memo from the Bobs about this....and just so you know... we are using new coversheets on the TPS reports.... yeah... if you could just remember that for next time....that would be great!!! Thanks! Yeah... :D

[KD7IWP]

I think the new iMac is sweet. I saw it at the store Saturday and was amazed at how big that screen is.

[gnasher729]

Since nobody has replied to my original post, I must assume that iMac users don't care about their computers being hot. I've been using personal computers since the days of the Tandy TRS80 and can tell you that hot components fail sooner than components that are merely warm.

Guess what: The heat that you feel at the outside has been removed from the inside. It's aluminium, it is one of the best heat conductors. Copper may be better, but you don't want a copper case for various reasons... It's cooling the inside, that's why it is hot at the outside!

[maccompaq]

Glad to be of help.
I too am worried about the prospect of having to return my entire machine in the event of a failure. Normally I would also just get the cover off an replace the faulty component and be up and running in no time. Be aware that there is an encryption option in OS X which allows you to encrypt your files. Also, you can do what I am working on right now and keep a copy of everything on an external drive or file server.

I share your concerns but I'm not sure it is a big enough concern to take away the joy of owning such as well designed machine.

The Mac Mini is a better bet now that they are C2D but I'm not sure you can compare them with an iMac. Depends on what you're looking for maybe.

Good luck,
Craig.

I have learned through experience and unfortunate bad experience with corruption to make backups. Currently I keep my important data files on one of my Macs, one of my Compaqs and an external Firewire HD formatted as FAT32 so both platforms can read from and write to it.

It gives me a lot of confidence with my hardware knowing that I can swap out components to another machine if trouble happens and I can continue computing.

Encryption is a problem for me, because files thusly stored are vulnerable to data corruption. Case in point: the Apple Keychain used for storing passwords has had corruption problems as reported in MacWorld. The article reported an even greater problem exists trying to recover Keychain data if Encryption is enabled.

I really like the look of the new iMac, but I am having a hard time convincing myself to indulge in a computer that I cannot get inside.