Do we need another 9/11?

[mactastic]

Conservative columnist Stu Bykofsky apparently thinks so (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/columnists/stu_bykofsky/20070809_Stu_Bykofsky___To_save_America__we_need_another_9_11.html).

And it seems like the righty wingnut-o-sphere agrees (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/11/bykofsky-right-wing/).

ONE MONTH from The Anniversary, I'm thinking another 9/11 would help America.

...

America's fabric is pulling apart like a cheap sweater.

What would sew us back together?

Another 9/11 attack.

The Golden Gate Bridge. Mount Rushmore. Chicago's Wrigley Field. The Philadelphia subway system. The U.S. is a target-rich environment for al Qaeda.

If John Kerry had said this what would FOX and Drudge be saying about him?

[Aea]

If John Kerry had said this what would FOX and Drudge be saying about him?

Jeez what's your problem? Fox is only trying to compensate for years of liberal bias in the media :mad::mad:

I can't believe that some people actually think terrorist attacks could do a good thing, after their own party ****ed it up royally after 9/11.

[mactastic]

Jeez what's your problem? Fox is only trying to compensate for years of liberal bias in the media :mad::mad:
My problem is with people who think a terrorist attack on Americans would be a Good Thing because it would boost their political party's standing. :mad::mad:

[leekohler]

What ********** idiot. The reason we aren't still united is because Bush and friends decided to do a number of things that angered at least half of us. Part of it was the war, the other part was his social meddling and demonization of certain citizens, and also his injecting religion into politics. It was also the fact that Bush didn't go after the real enemy. Gee- it doesn't take a genius.

[atszyman]

Conservative columnist Stu Bykofsky apparently thinks so (http://www.philly.com/dailynews/columnists/stu_bykofsky/20070809_Stu_Bykofsky___To_save_America__we_need_another_9_11.html).

And it seems like the righty wingnut-o-sphere agrees (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/11/bykofsky-right-wing/).



If John Kerry had said this what would FOX and Drudge be saying about him?

I imagine anyone even slightly to the left of center would be dealing with frozen assets and an investigation into possible terrorist ties. Which is what should be done when people make these types of threats.

Like when Trent Lott warned people to get out of DC until September 12...

link (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/08/04/lott-to-dc-run-for-your-lives/) (i know not the best source)

[mactastic]

What ********** idiot. The reason we aren't still united is because Bush and friends decided to do a number of things that angered at least half of us. Part of it was the war, the other part was his social meddling and demonization of certain citizens, and also his injecting religion into politics. It was also the fact that Bush didn't go after the real enemy. Gee- it doesn't take a genius.
That's why I don't like Rove, not because he was "successful". His tactics were to divide and conquer. Use people's anger issues to split the nation such that his side got 50% plus 1.

Particularly after Bush came to office promising to "change the partisan tone" in Washington.

[yg17]

Jeez what's your problem? Fox is only trying to compensate for years of liberal bias in the media :mad::mad:

I can't believe that some people actually think terrorist attacks could do a good thing, after their own party ****ed it up royally after 9/11.

I'm glad I saw the white text before I decided to go off on you. Saved both our time :D



Anyways, I'll do it for Keith...."Stu Bykofsky, today's worst person in the world!"

And one more thing....if there was an attack on Wrigley Field that would be the first time America cared about the Cubs since the last time they won the world series which was what.....back when dinosaurs roamed the earth? :D :D :D

[FFTT]

Let's see if we make it through another hurricane season first shall we.

I can't wait to see FEMA in action again!

[miloblithe]

Stu has responded to his critics, and is enjoying his 15 minutes.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/columnists/stu_bykofsky/20070813_Stu_Bykofsky___I_WAS_WRONG_ABOUT_ANOTHER_9_11.html

[ham_man]

That's why I don't like Rove, not because he was "successful". His tactics were to divide and conquer. Use people's anger issues to split the nation such that his side got 50% plus 1.
Ummm...the Democrats use the "divide and conquer" method as well. I fail to see your point... :confused:

[FFTT]

Vote!

EVIL A

EVIL B

[steamboat26]

Sounds like an amazing plan, just what we need to get the military industrial complex back into "Reagan" gear :rolleyes:
All another 9/11 would lead to is more military invasions and more U.S. investment in weapons systems we don't need, and will probably never use. Rather than spend billions of dollars fixing social security, or creating universal health, or improving education, or doing something about climate change; the government chooses to invest in multi-billion dollar weapons systems that aren't necessary.
We would be united for about 5 minutes until we invaded another country.

[solvs]

We wouldn't stand behind him this time. We'd blame him for not doing what we (some of us, not me) thought we reelected him for. Just like we did after Katrina. And now with Iraq. The only reason we stood behind him then (which I admit, at the time I did) was because we thought he'd do something. He did the wrong things and, as said, pissed all that unity away.

A talking head on Fox was agreeing with this joker, then went on to make fun of Jon Stewart's heartfelt post-9/11 comment. I agree, if a lib had said this, it would be all over the "liberal" media. Neocons have been saying this for years (O'Reily for one) and we don't even notice much anymore. Despite the minor controversies among bloggers, I guess no one is surprised.

[mactastic]

Ummm...the Democrats use the "divide and conquer" method as well. I fail to see your point... :confused:
When has a Democrat as prominent as Rove insinuated that the opposition party supports the enemies of America?

[solvs]

When has a Democrat as prominent as Rove insinuated that the opposition party supports the enemies of America?

Dems say Bush is doing a bad job and some website no one visits compared him to Hitler, which is obviously the same thing.

Wait for it...


:rolleyes:

[takao]

actually on the 11.9. i said that "the US will hopefully finally thinks about what's wrong about their foreign policies and change them but more likely use it as excuse to invade whatever country they want"

i guess it will be similiar the next time a terroristic attack happens in the US no matter the party in charge
i guess it takes a lot more casulties on the american side to change anything

[juanm]

I don't know if you need or deserve it, but you'll have another one, no matter what you do.
I predict it'll probably happen on a Tuesday around mid-September.

Sorry :o

[zap2]

No, we don't need another 9/11...because we couldn't handle 2 more wars, one where we attack the people who attacked us, and a 4th to draw attention away from the fact we can't find the people who originally attacked us.

[juanm]

(Psst... hidden text) ;)

[megfilmworks]

The only new 911 we need in the U.S. would be made by Porsche.

[megfilmworks]

I don't know if you need or deserve it, but you'll have another one, no matter what you do.
I predict it'll probably happen around mid-September.

Sorry :o
I agree, we are going to get it whether we like it or not. As a Spaniard I'm sure you know how insidious and misguided terrorism is.

[yg17]

The only new 911 we need in the U.S. would be made by Porsche.

I like your thinking :D



I want a 911 to happen right in my driveway!

[ham_man]

I don't know if you need or deserve it, but you'll have another one, no matter what you do.
I predict it'll probably happen on a Tuesday around mid-September.

Sorry :o
Wait...are we talking about Apple Special Events or terrorist attacks...? :confused: :p

[juanm]

Yep... Although in the case of Islamic extremism I'd say it's much worse. Basque terrorists have little to complain by comparison. I mean, They're free to vote, an already very extended autonomy, lots of money... One of the negociators who took part in the Irish conflict was asked to help here. After seeing what was going on, he said that the basque conflict cannot be solved, because there isn't any conflict at all.

Middle East, on the other hand, has everything needed to explode. Lots of people, Islam (not the most tolerant religion, let alone if it's over-interpreted), misery, a Cause (Palestina), an enemy (Israel, and thus, the US), a violent recent history, scarce freedom...
Egypt is very stable, compared to other countries, and yet, it's still very very far from being a democracy. I wonder what will happen when Mobarak dies.

By the way I'm half French and half Spanish. That means I'm arrogant and lazy :p

[megfilmworks]

Mon Dieu, Amigo, good post.
I wish more Americans could travel through the world to open their minds up to what is really going on out there and get some fresh perspective.

[adrianblaine]

Mon Dieu, Amigo, good post.
I wish more Americans could travel through the world to open their minds up to what is really going on out there and get some fresh perspective.

This is very true. I was able to spend a month in Italy and France (I've also been to Bolivia, Honduras, and Mexico on mission trips) and it really changes your perspective on things. While I won't completely shred the American culture because I think there are a few good things about it, we are very misguided on where we think true happiness lies.

What we (Bush et. al) did after 9/11 made the terrorists' point for them and now we have shown the world we really are a bully.

[megfilmworks]

I love our nation, hands down, we are the luckiest people in the world. But people who never travel are like ostriches with their head in the sand. There is so much to learn from other culture and countries.

[steamboat26]

Agreed, and a lot can be learned by simply reading and researching more. I would bet that many people don't even know why we were attacked on 9/11 and will continue to be attacked in the future.

And no, it isn't because they hate freedom :rolleyes:

BTW, i might have already said this, but the documentary Why we fight really gave me a new perspective on things. I highly recommend it.

[megfilmworks]

Good point, people who can't travel, can. With books, docs, internet, Cable Tv etc.
Understanding is Knowledge and Knowledge is Power.

[SMM]

Ummm...the Democrats use the "divide and conquer" method as well. I fail to see your point... :confused:

I suspect when you see it, you will not recognize it. You seem to spend more time bashing Apple, or defending the Administration, than staying on topic. You sometimes even kill two birds with one stone. An example....



ham_man
Wait...are we talking about Apple Special Events or terrorist attacks...?

Now there was a real contribution to the topic. :rolleyes:

[juanm]

The less people travel, the more they are convinced that their culture/country/sports team is the way to go... And it's the responsibility of their government to invert this tendency.
If I were american (form the US), I'd have joined the peace corps long ago... I've applied for the UN volunteers, but I'm too young (I'm 23, required age: 25).
Travelling isn't really expensive, as long as you don't live like a regular tourist. With an average wage, and some freelancing, I think it's possible to work 4-5 months and travel the rest of the year. I mean, when I was in French Polynesia (usually it's considered one of the most expensive destinations in the world) with a friend, we spent between 3 and 12 dollars per day. Granted, it was hardcore backpacking, but this trip changed my life. I'm about to start a new journey around Australia in the months to come, (this time with my girlfriend) and I really can't see why the average western youngster wouldn't be able to do the same. Depending on how light you decide to travel, it can end up being really cheap, as long as you stick to the local (read non-tourist) life.
For anyone who lives in a western country, it only takes a pair of cojones :D and a few months' savings. Of course, you have to do it before getting a mortgage...

[megfilmworks]

How right you are!! In fact traveling in the elite class (which I happen to like)
can keep you out of touch with reality.
My 5'4" 100lb daughter who just graduated college here in California is headed for Tanzania to do social work for several months...I'm sure it will shape her life for ever!

[juanm]

Cécile (my much better half) wants to go to Africa after Australia. But that's more than one year away, so we have plenty of time to change our minds -and we certainly will. However, for now, we're thinking about Kenya, Tanzania, Namibia, maybe South Africa... Some place politically stable wher we could stay a few months. I worked on a documentary about Kenya and it was spectacular. What has your daughter graduated in?

[megfilmworks]

English Major, she wants to make a career in writing.

[ham_man]

When has a Democrat as prominent as Rove insinuated that the opposition party supports the enemies of America?
Well, considering the stance of the parties, I fail to see how that would be valid. I was more refering to the basic Democratic platform of "If you hate Bush, vote for us!"

[SMM]

...snip...

BTW, i might have already said this, but the documentary Why we fight really gave me a new perspective on things. I highly recommend it.

I do not think you can make that point too many times. If each time, it inspires one more person to watch it, the effort was worthwhile! Much of the content is consistent with the observations I made, while living in SE Asia, Mexico and the South Pacific. It was later clarified, and quantified, for me by the great Noam Chomsky.

However, let's be honest; Dr. Chomsky, and his writings, are light-years away from Billy Bob and Edna, from Grassy Flats Iowa. In fact, I bet you could ask a hundred Americans on the street who he is, and < 10% could tell you. He has been been branded un-American, ultra-liberal and every other every other tag the right can throw at academics. What I find appalling is when any of the networks bring on a middle-east expert, you will see the likes of William Sapphire, Bill Kristol, Ollie North, etc. You will never see Noam Chomsky, who knows more than the whole group combined.

This is why I was shocked that anyone would make so daring an expose as that done in "Why We Fight". That is not just being ahead of the curve, it is being way out on a limb, and very risky. To being with, backers will be absolutely non-existent. Then you will have a very difficult time finding venues that will actually run the show. Didn't I read that many syndicated theaters refused to show it? This certainly was not done for profit.

I have managed to get a baker's dozen coworkers to watch it (after I lent it to them). A couple of them dismissed it as "...his opinion...". However, most were disturbed by it. These are folk definitely right-of-center. I am going to buy a couple more copies to lend. I think the subject, and message are too important for Americans not to watch it.

[solvs]

I was more refering to the basic Democratic platform of "If you hate Bush, vote for us!"

Considering how many people hate Bush right now, I'd say that was a smart thing to do.

And I'd much rather have that than Rove's: vote for the other side and the abortionists, atheists, gays, terrorists, whateverists are gonna gitcha!

[takao]

However, let's be honest; Dr. Chomsky, and his writings, are light-years away from Billy Bob and Edna, from Grassy Flats Iowa. In fact, I bet you could ask a hundred Americans on the street who he is, and < 10% could tell you. He has been been branded un-American, ultra-liberal and every other every other tag the right can throw at academics. What I find appalling is when any of the networks bring on a middle-east expert, you will see the likes of William Sapphire, Bill Kristol, Ollie North, etc. You will never see Noam Chomsky, who knows more than the whole group combined.


not even talking about his workings on linguistics+formal languages which still on timetables of thousands of learning computer scientists around the world ;)

[mactastic]

English Major, she wants to make a career in writing.
I hope you're ready to take her back in then!

I kid, of course. But it can be tough for English majors. My wife has an English masters degree now, and a teaching credential; but without the credential the career path is very ambiguous. Lots of things you can do, not yet skilled in any of them. Finding a path that allows your love of literature and your bank account to flourish can be a challenge.

Well, considering the stance of the parties, I fail to see how that would be valid. I was more refering to the basic Democratic platform of "If you hate Bush, vote for us!"
What are you talking about? You said that Democrats use the "divide and conquer" strategy too. I challenged you to find an example of a Democrat roughly of Rove's status who has questioned the patriotism of members of the opposition party; and you want to equate that with "if you hate Bush, vote for us!"? That's not an argument, that's just obfuscation. Surely you remember "if you hate Clinton, vote for us"? Oh but of course THAT was different. That was a principled thing, right?

[solvs]

I think it's funny that people still think disliking what the Bush administration is doing is divisive. A large majority disapprove of him, and even more the rest of them (have you seen Cheney's numbers?). If anything, it's bringing people together who otherwise wouldn't. Against them. Look at the '06 elections.

Bush always said he wanted to be a uniter, but I'm guessing it wasn't like this. :o

[steamboat26]

This is why I was shocked that anyone would make so daring an expose as that done in "Why We Fight". That is not just being ahead of the curve, it is being way out on a limb, and very risky. To being with, backers will be absolutely non-existent. Then you will have a very difficult time finding venues that will actually run the show. Didn't I read that many syndicated theaters refused to show it? This certainly was not done for profit.

I have managed to get a baker's dozen coworkers to watch it (after I lent it to them). A couple of them dismissed it as "...his opinion...". However, most were disturbed by it. These are folk definitely right-of-center. I am going to buy a couple more copies to lend. I think the subject, and message are too important for Americans not to watch it.

Completely agree, rather than bring on people who don't know much about the Middle East like William Kristol, who's only experience is creating the battle plans for the current administration, news networks should have people like Chalmers Johnson and Noam Chomsky, who have studied the middle east for years without a bias towards U.S. political or business interests.

I saw it in theaters and was shocked by what I saw (I was a younger, more oblivious teenager) and rented it again for a school paper. My entire family and a bunch of my friends watched it, I'd like to think they were moved too, and that the word will spread around about the movie :)

[megfilmworks]

I hope you're ready to take her back in then!

I kid, of course. But it can be tough for English majors. My wife has an English masters degree now, and a teaching credential; but without the credential the career path is very ambiguous. Lots of things you can do, not yet skilled in any of them. Finding a path that allows your love of literature and your bank account to flourish can be a challenge.

I know, but you have to let them live their dreams. I was lucky in my career and I hope nervously that she will in hers. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[-::ubermann::-]

having killed many innocent people in irak, would they need it ?

[solvs]

having killed many innocent people in irak, would they need it ?

Maybe this time the Iraqis actually would be responsible for it. Wonder if we'd then go back to focusing on the 'stans. Because that's what we did last time, going after Iraq because people in Afghanistan, who are now in Pakistan, attacked us. For those who don't know. Of course, they were actually Saudis. Knowing these jokers, we'd probably just blame Iran, and by the time we got the truth, it would be too late. Meanwhile, ~30% would still reference it when asked why we attacked Iran.

Still wondering where that Bin Laden guy is.