Mr. Jobs death.....

for whats its worth, Balmer did take over microsoft. Bill gates is no longer the CEO. It didn't affect a single thing.

People aren't software. Why would any company not support MS office formats. those aren't "legacy" formats, nore would they be if Bill gates, balmer or whoever happens to be the CEO died. its totally irrelevent. Whats relevent is that most companies use office, the program would continue to be exist and be the default standard, so everyone would still use it.

If Jobs died, there would be an out[ouring of support, a lot of people would call for the death of Apple (again), and hene everyone would get over it. I'm not sure that its been proven that steve jobs is even that great of a CEO from the business side of things. He's important in Apple to be sure, but there's lots of talented people who could take over. Some day he's going to step down anyway. Would it be a sad day in the apple community, sure. Would it mean a lot in the grand scheme of apple as a business, probably not, or at least I'd like to think not. I'm at a loss to figure out why anyone would think twice about buying macffice because jobs died. he has nothing to do with that product.

As for the totally separate question of what is apple missing to push into corporate space, thats easy. They don't deal in commodity computers. its kind of like asking why a luxury car maker isn't making inroads in the airport rent-a-car business. Its just not apple's game. Companies will use Apple where it makes sense, and for everyday tasks, using macs doesn't make a lot of sense to most just from the cost issue. Apple could probably push things better to show where they would be really good fits, win back some business in the design industry and others they've lost to PC's, but they couldn't possibly make inroads in the corporate desktop market while their cheapest machine that doesn't include a monitor is priced at over 1500 bucks. Nor should they worry about that market in my opinion.

Actually, I've been thinking lately that Steve Jobs is a pretty crappy CEO. He's got no business sense. He's an amazing visionary and he would be an excellent VP in hardware design but he just can't take care of the money side of things properly.

Microsoft a while back were interested in jobs actually. His vision is great and I think he's a great CEO. He's got people with him to worry about other stuff

This is a really morbid thread, no?

It would be terrible for Apple if SJ were to leave for any reason. Steve knows that computers aren't a commodity, and computers done right are very special things indeed.

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
Actually, I've been thinking lately that Steve Jobs is a pretty crappy CEO. He's got no business sense. He's an amazing visionary and he would be an excellent VP in hardware design but he just can't take care of the money side of things properly.

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what is this based upon? since he returned and intriduced the original iMac Apple has consistently turned profits each year. that's a lot more than can be said for many other computer manufacturers.

We had a seminar here at work about what makes a company solid and enduring and one of the things that does NOT help is having a famous CEO, aka Apple or Oracle. Apparently these companies have a track record of destablizing when the ceo leaves, some recover some don't.

Too often I think many people associate Apple = SJ and that is of some concern to me, especially since I'm a shareholder. On the other hand Apple seems to have everything else in place for being a great long term company.

Yeah I sometimes think of Steve as Apple, but he is a great guy nonetheless. I would be very sad if he died, but I guess the design of products and such could be handled by Ive. Not sure if everything would be the same though.

I remember a few years ago reading a thread along these same lines on Appleinsider. It was not a happy thread, but in the end, life does go on. Besides, Walt Disney died and the Mouse and company are still going strong.

Originally posted by tjwett
what is this based upon? since he returned and intriduced the original iMac Apple has consistently turned profits each year. that's a lot more than can be said for many other computer manufacturers.

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Aside from the fact that Apple doesn't seem to bother with such trivial issues as "market studies" and "focus groups", the shareholders are getting pissed off because they want a dividend, the stock is still worth less than half of what it was two years ago (which is a GREAT reason to pay a dividend). About 25% reported shares on Apple's 10-K form are unexpensed options.

Last year, Apple's board was named as the worst by Business Week. Steve only owns two shares in Apple (that right there makes him a poor choice for CEO), Larry Ellison (who left in 2002) had none and missed more than 25% of the meetings in his last five years. The CEO of Micro Warehouse, which accounts for about 3% of Apple's net sales, sits on the compensation committee. Between 2000 and 2002, the board gave Jobs 27.5 million stock options and a $90M jet. Gap CEO Mickey Drexler and Steve Jobs sit on one another's boards. What about Bill Campbell, chairman and former CEO of Intuit and a former Apple executive, and personal friend of Jobs? Arthur Levinson, CEO of Genetech, is a big Apple corporate customer.

Jobs has no clear compensation contract. There are no clear triggers for performance bonuses (normally considered necessary for board-CEO relationships). The jet they awared Jobs in 2002 despite a 38% decrease in stock price suggests that Steve has undue influence on his own compensation.

I said it before and I'll say it again: While Steve is an excellent visionary and is to be commended for taking Apple back from the grave time and time again, things need to change before I'll trust him serving as CEO. I think that Apple would be doing better with a different CEO provided that Steve is still there in some capacity to come up with his brilliant hardware/software ideas.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2003/tc20030327_1562_tc056.htm

Hmmm..... personally, I'm a Steve Jobs fan. I know he isn't the mainstream CEO as IBM, M$, Ford or whatever expect hem to be.
He's someone who lives on visions, beauty, eccentric ideas, and more I cannot think of.
He's the guy who (co) started Apple, got kicked out by Scully, started OS X (@ NeXT), bought by Apple, became interim CEO, later the REAL CEO, started the iMac......
(maybe he even saved Apple's a$$ by making that deal with M$)

HE IS MR. APPLE !!!

Come on.... you gotta like this guy! Watching him do the Keynotes is more entertaining than going to the movies. He's like some classical hero. And very, very human!

...Just don't ever, ever make him CFO....

Re: impressive

Originally posted by Jagga
Rundevilrun, you said...."Too often I think many people associate Apple = SJ and that is of some concern to me". Of which is of great concern to me as well hence the actually brainstorm of why I started this thread. I wonder if Mr. Jobs left and the company was immensely successful just like when the iMacs (G3) where selling like mad their first fiscal year. And their was no "one" person to headline the company alone....then maybe the technology market analysts might give Apple their fair due? Hey I'm dreaming!

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Well the first time he left it was not on good terms and we all know how the Scully years went. He seems to surround himself with some very smart people so if the next time he leaves it's on good terms I'm sure Apple will be left with very competent management.

Re: Re: impressive

Originally posted by rundevilrun
Well the first time he left it was not on good terms and we all know how the Scully years went. He seems to surround himself with some very smart people so if the next time he leaves it's on good terms I'm sure Apple will be left with very competent management.

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During Scully's reign, Apple reached its highest stock value, its highest marketshare, its deapest penetration into third party office and electronics stores. I'd say that while marketing wasn't perfect they did come up with ideas that were much more substantial on TV than the switch advertisements. Scully wasn't bad at least through 1993. It was starting with 1994 that things started going downhill. Strangely that was the beginning of the PowerPC transition. At least Apple is back in focus again, and despite the downturn it had after 2000, it still is holding close to a 1 year high again. Apple's marketshare is still higher than Mercedes. Its usage share is 3 times higher! Apple faced the .com bursting bubble well, and will survive well into the future. I agree though migration away from having Steve Jobs will be difficult. There will always be detractors who won't upgrade to Mac OS X.

Re: Re: Re: impressive

Originally posted by gopher
Apple's marketshare is still higher than Mercedes.

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I'm sorry this statement struck me as kind of odd ... Mercedes Benz or Dahlmer-Chrysler?

I think it will be intersting to see what happens when he finally retires or leaves Apple. Most of the people who started up these brilliant computer compaines 20 years ago are still there at their companies, or a least holding a lot of authority. Who knows what will happen once Jobs, Gates, etc. aren't in charge of their companies anymore.