EDGE Evolution coming end of 2008

[rican499]

Just like a lot of people, I am some what disappointed by edge speeds.
Well there is good news for everyone.
While searching for EDGE speed improvement, I found some interesting stuff.
So l started this thread to get the word out.
Looks like Apple did their homework on EDGE.


EDGE Evolution (EDGE II or Evolved EDGE)
EDGE Evolution, also called Evolved EDGE or EDGE II, is an upgraded version of EDGE technology that is currently in development at 3GPP, an international standards body. Compared to existing versions of EDGE, EDGE Evolution is expected to provide:

A dramatic increase in data rates. The actual amount depends on the version used, but peak download speeds and upload speeds are expected to increase 200-300% over EDGE.

A 50% increase in spectral efficiency and capacity.

Reduced latency for initial access and round-trip time, enabling better quality of service (QoS) for PTT and voice over IP (VoIP).

Compatibility with existing frequency plans, thus facilitating rapid deployment in existing networks.

A simple upgrade to existing GSM equipment allowing a more efficient used of existing scarce radio spectrum.

A better seamless experience for subscribers as they roam from HSPA networks to EDGE networks.


Read all about it here:
http://www.3gamericas.com/English/Technology_Center/edge_evolution.cfm

[NewSc2]

and its totally backwards compatible with our iPhones?

[Canuck4]

It would be nice but it sounds a little too good to be true :)

[rican499]

and its totally backwards compatible with our iPhones?

That would depend on if Apple planned for this in advance.

Evolved EDGE (EDGE II) Update. 3G Americas, April 2007
http://www.3gamericas.org/pdfs/evolved_edge_update_04_2007.pdf

[CBJammin103]

If this is truly fully compatible with current EDGE-capable phones (namely the iPhone) then we'd have a lot of even more pleased iPhone users.

Now if only they could get iChat on this sucker...

[HiRez]

I think that would work for me. 2x-3x of the current EDGE speed, combined with some needed Safari rendering and caching optimizations (and hopefully some image/ad filtering options) would be quite acceptable. Probably pretty close to my home DSL speed, which is not great but not bad. But like Canuck4 says, I'll believe it when I see it. :rolleyes:

[NewSc2]

overall I can't complain much about the edge speeds... Even on wifi my iPhone has noticeable latency over my mbp. Edge is bearable... I get about 140-150 kbps.

[sbrownla]

And I quote:

"When can we expect to see EDGE Evolution-enabled products?

EDGE Evolution-enabled products are expected towards the end of 2008, early 2009 timeframe." http://www.3gamericas.com/English/Technology_Center/qa/edge_evolution_qa.cfm

That should clear up the confusion.

[HiRez]

Hmm, looking at the PDF that rican499 linked, I doubt current iPhones would be able to take advantage. It definitely sounds like new hardware would be required. For example:

• Significantly higher processing required in the handset

• Second antenna in the handset make implementation more complex

• Expected processor improvements will enable this development more readily

• Easily implementation on base stations as well as handsets with minimal technology risk means we could see commercial deployments
in the 2008-2009 timeframe

• Improvements and research in small antenna technology and processors will minimize the implementation costs of this featureMaybe that reduces costs for AT&T to deploy and support new and old, but I don't think it's going to help anyone with a 1st gen iPhone. I hope I'm wrong about that though. And it's still not really competitive with 3G and 4G technologies anyway. AT&T sucks.

[rican499]

Hmm, looking at the PDF that rican499 linked, I doubt current iPhones would be able to take advantage. It definitely sounds like new hardware would be required. For example:

Maybe that reduces costs for AT&T to deploy and support new and old, but I don't think it's going to help anyone with a 1st gen iPhone. I hope I'm wrong about that though. And it's still not really competitive with 3G and 4G technologies anyway. AT&T sucks.

True EDGE will never compete with 3G or 4G.
If we could at least see speeds around 400 kbps, that would be a small improvement.


What is EDGE?
Enhanced Data rates for GSM Evolution (EDGE) is a third-generation (3G), high-speed data technology, with theoretical network peak rates of 473 kbps and average throughput of 100-130 kbps. The average rates are fast enough to support a wide range of advanced data services, including streaming audio and video, fast Internet access and large file downloads. EDGE also supports push-to-talk (PTT) services.

EDGE is occasionally referred to as Enhanced GPRS (EGPRS) because it increases the capacity and data throughput of GPRS by three to four times. Like GPRS, EDGE is a packet-based service, which provides customers with a constant data connection.

The ITU, which sets telecom standards for worldwide use, approved EDGE as a 3G standard in July 2000. In July 2003, the world’s first commercial EDGE network launched. As of 1Q 2007, EDGE services are available from 206 networks in 109 countries with another 73 networks in planned, trialing or in construction stages.

[Amblinman]

I don't even understand the point. By the time this is available, a 3G version of the iPhone will have either been released or about to be released. And the previous poster is correct - it looks like you'd need new hardware anyway. The only way this makes sense for iPhone is if for some reason Apple wasn't planning on launching a 3G version for a few years.

[pixlnet]

EDGE is fine...I wish it could be faster but oh well. One thing I was thinking about is the possibility of AT&T rolling out Wifi for the iPhone in big cities such as Chicago, etc. Or possibly WiMax whenever that rolls out. I haven't done my homework but it would be a nice solution. You could get some really nice speed out of Wifi!

[scaredpoet]

EDGE is fine...I wish it could be faster but oh well. One thing I was thinking about is the possibility of AT&T rolling out Wifi for the iPhone in big cities such as Chicago, etc. Or possibly WiMax whenever that rolls out.


Uhm, to be clear, WiMax is NOT WiFi, not even close. It will not work with current iPhones. And testing seems to indicate it's better as a fixed-location technology than it is a mobile one.

That said, Sprint is deploying it anyway, at extreme expense. Whether it will work out or not remains to be seen.

[pixlnet]

ahhh....thanks for the tip scaredpoet. I guess we're SOL until either EDGE is upgraded or we have unlocked phones. I found an interesting note about WiMax and the iPhone from one of the big wig technology guys at Sprint. He was saying WiMax is moving towards an open broadband network and the choice of Apple to go unsubsidized is the right direction. The reason for two year contracts is to subsidize the device and the reason we have walled gardens on the cell networks.

[CBJammin103]

Why do people still think a 3G iPhone is coming out soon? If you've read Apple's reasons for not including 3G and assume they're not simply lying, I don't see why you would expect a 3G phone any time soon.

EDGE isnt perfect, but connection speed isn't everything. I'd rather be able to use my iPhone all day than have it die after an hour of blazing internet connection speeds.

[tominated]

screw edge. hdspa (or whatever the hell it is) FTW!

[scaredpoet]

He was saying WiMax is moving towards an open broadband network and the choice of Apple to go unsubsidized is the right direction.

I've learned largely to ignore analysts. If they really knew what they were talking about, then they wouldn't be talking, but rather working in the industries they profess to be "analysts" in.

I doubt Apple is going for Wimax anytime soon. If they were, they would've signed an exclusive agreement with Sprint, not AT&T. And, while I can agree that going unsubsidized would normally be a nice move, Apple still did it wrong, and we still have all the nasty things that go with subsidization: a two year contract, and a carrier-specific SIM lock. So how did we benefit?

[zap2]

By the end of '08? I'm think Apple will have 3G iPhones only out by then

[diamond.g]

So how did we benefit?

By helping Apple, duh. ;)

[mkrishnan]

I think the good thing about EDGE:Evolution is probably that it will raise the bar substantially on wide access in rural areas for cellular data. 3G is coming in the US, but it is going to continue the trend of relatively limited availability in larger markets. EDGE in contrast is in a lot more places.

I'm not saying EDGE:Evo is enough for the iPhone or that it's the future... I'm just saying it probably, realistically, has an important place in wireless services.

[Jeef690]

No no no. The future is google's nation wide Mu-Fi network! Come one guys!

Haha, whenever that happens.

Does anyone have any realistic ideas of hardware requirements of Edge-E devices? Doesn't the iphone have 2 antennas already as well as a new EDGE chip?

[ecgta3]

yeah it's already 09 what happenned? ATT even downgraded their EDGE SIGNAL COVERAGE!!!!!

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/ATTs-2G-Customers-See-A-Downgrade-99995

http://forums.wirelessadvisor.com/wireless-news/72850-t-moving-edge-1900-mhz-band.html

[Moi un Mouton]

Just to put this back to sleep as an iPhone topic, here's a quote from one technical site:

"As noted in the story, new handsets and chips will be needed for phones and cards, so nothing we use now will support the higher rates"

Another site notes that no network operators have implemented it anyway.