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MBMatt11
Aug 6, 2003, 03:31 PM
What is better for sharing a mac and a pc, two samsung 19 inch lcds or 1 apple 20 inch cinema. The two 19 inch lcds are cheaper, and have a built in switch so that i can a plug a mac and pc into each one so that i can switch from having one display show a mac and one display show a pc or both showing the mac, or both showing the pc. My main concern is how well does the extended desktop work on mac and pcs. Please explain how i works in detail. Also, does opengl work with extended desktop.

Thank you

edesignuk
Aug 6, 2003, 03:45 PM
The dual 19" LCD's will kick arse over even a 23" Cinema. Once you go dual, you'll wonder how you ever lived without them!
I don't really know how to "explain" how extended desktops work, other than to say, for both Mac an PC, it just gives you a whole 2nd workspace. You can drag windows from one screen into another and so forth. If you have anything specific you'd like to know, just ask and I'll do my best to respond.

edit: typo :)

daveg5
Aug 6, 2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by edesignuk
The dual 19" LCD's will kick arse over even a 23" Cinema. Once you go dual, you'll wonder how you ever lived without them!
I don't really know how to "explain" how extended desktops work, other than to say, for both Mac an PC, it just gives you a whole 2nd workspace. You can drag windows from one screen into another and so forth. If you have anything specific you'd like to know, just ask and I'll do my best to respond.
true but if on a budget get one 19" and www.codetek.com virtual desktop for multiple screens and backgrounds on a single mac. download the demo. you will save hundreds its under $50 until you have the $$$$$ for two or three.
good program like having a monitor and a halve

edit: typo :)

hugemullens
Aug 6, 2003, 04:38 PM
20 inch would probley have resolution issues with most PC's too, so its far from the best option.

Kwyjibo
Aug 6, 2003, 05:09 PM
most samsung LCDs arep retty nice and if the price for the duals is less I say go for them defiantely.

.a
Aug 6, 2003, 05:14 PM
go for the dual - they are absolutely easy to "install" in mac os X -> it does it by itself :)
and if it starts up with only seeing one monitor, there is a button on systempreferences "detect display".
since i "switched" to dual screens, my workflow almost doubled! you'll never go back. forget about the 20" - go for two 19"!
have fun
.a

Fender2112
Aug 6, 2003, 05:14 PM
Decide what resolution you will be working in. Most folks choose the highest. Then calculate your pixels. Just because you have more square inches does not mean you get more pixels. This may seem obvious but I mention it because some 19" monitors have the same resolution as 17" monitors (1280 x 1024)

MacWorld.com has this review on monitors:
http://www.macworld.com/2003/08/features/eightflatpanelmonitors/

MBMatt11
Aug 6, 2003, 06:58 PM
Thank you so much! It sounds like the duals are the way to go. I guess I just need to try it out to experience how good it is. Well, do some apps take advantage of gual monitors such as adope photoshop (can I have pallete on one monitor and piuctures on the other?). Thanks again

Fender2112
Aug 6, 2003, 09:31 PM
Originally posted by MBMatt11
Thank you so much! It sounds like the duals are the way to go. I guess I just need to try it out to experience how good it is. Well, do some apps take advantage of gual monitors such as adope photoshop (can I have pallete on one monitor and piuctures on the other?). Thanks again

My experience (the Apple display at CompUSA) has been that the graphics card and related software handles the monitor. The "Monitors" control panel allows you to determine the positioning of the monitors along with color settings and resolution. Moving palettes, windows, icons, whatever is just a matter of dragging it. The OS sees the two moniors as one big monior. At the CompUSA display, I set the monitor on the left to act like it was on the right. It was fun watching folks scrath their heads. :)

Make sure your graphics card supports dual displays. If it's an Apple card you will also need an ADC to DVI adapter or DVI to ADC depending on what the monitors have. Apple cards come with one ADC and one DVI port.

Posts some photos when you get 'em set up. ;)

MBMatt11
Aug 6, 2003, 09:51 PM
Unfortunately they won't be set up for a while. I will get one display when i upgrade my pc and the other will be sometime next year when i get enough money fo a g5. I just needed to know whether to get a 19 inch screen now, so i can get one later or an apple display and an kvm later.

My final question:

Can the dock be extended across both screens

the future
Aug 7, 2003, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by MBMatt11

My final question:

Can the dock be extended across both screens

No. You have to choose one display as the 'primary' one. This one will show the dock as well as the options bar for the app you are using at the moment.

edesignuk
Aug 7, 2003, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by the future
No. You have to choose one display as the 'primary' one. This one will show the dock as well as the options bar for the app you are using at the moment.
Same goes for the start bar in WinXP.

BJNY
Aug 7, 2003, 09:48 AM
I'm waiting for Apple to update their displays before purchasing either a G4 or G5 tower. I'd be all over it if Apple should announce a 30". If not, I will get two 19" or two 20" LCDs with thin bezels and pivoting capability. Portrait orientation and a 4:3 aspect ratio makes more sense for retouching photographic images destined for full-page magazine publication. Perhaps the Eizo or Sharp branded units that offer 10-bit gamma correction.

the future
Aug 7, 2003, 11:30 AM
Maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that no graphics card currently available in G4 or G5 towers supports pivoting screens (or maybe support the screens but not the pivoting). Would be cool to have, though.

MBMatt11
Aug 7, 2003, 01:33 PM
Okay, i'm going to pick up my first lcd soon. Is it safe to order online, or should go to a store so i can check for dead pixels. Also, what is the best way to check for dead pixels?

On a side note, does opengl work with two display because I read somewhere online that it did not.

BJNY
Aug 7, 2003, 01:33 PM
Pivoting displays from Eizo, LaCie, Mitsubishi, Sharp, etc. work under MacOS9. The recently announced ATI 9800 with Versavision allows the feature in MacOSx as well.

Kwyjibo
Aug 7, 2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by MBMatt11
Okay, i'm going to pick up my first lcd soon. Is it safe to order online, or should go to a store so i can check for dead pixels. Also, what is the best way to check for dead pixels?

On a side note, does opengl work with two display because I read somewhere online that it did not.

There isn't a great way to check for dead pixels until you get home. You might be able to if your a smooth talker, I would find one of the salesman at a place like CircuitCity or any place that gets comission and tell him you want a display but you want to make sure it has no dead pixels, he might be more willing to test the display (he also does not want to oepn a box tho so make sure your good at talking thru it)

the future
Aug 8, 2003, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by BJNY
Pivoting displays from Eizo, LaCie, Mitsubishi, Sharp, etc. work under MacOS9. The recently announced ATI 9800 with Versavision allows the feature in MacOSx as well.

That's great! Too bad the retail version of the 9800 has only one digital port (DVI) so a dual digital LCD pivoting setup is not possible...

I truly think that if/when new Apple displays come, they should feature pivoting. It's just so cool and useful.

MBMatt11
Aug 8, 2003, 03:38 AM
Does quartz extreme work with two displays and extended desktop.

http://www.apple.com.au/macosx/10.2/quartzextreme.html

The bottom of the page says it is not supported, however that is not at the bottom of the us site. Can anyone with dual monitors tell me if it works.

tazo
Aug 8, 2003, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by MBMatt11
What is better for sharing a mac and a pc, two samsung 19 inch lcds or 1 apple 20 inch cinema. The two 19 inch lcds are cheaper, and have a built in switch so that i can a plug a mac and pc into each one so that i can switch from having one display show a mac and one display show a pc or both showing the mac, or both showing the pc. My main concern is how well does the extended desktop work on mac and pcs. Please explain how i works in detail. Also, does opengl work with extended desktop.

Thank you

Definitely go with the dual 19'' monitors. I can never understand how some mac users will not take a product that is cheaper, offers more, and gives you a better computing experience, simply because there is no half-eaten apple slapped on the back.

Now I certainly agree Apple makes great reliable products, but to turn away dual 19'' lcds simply because they arent cinema displays?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him buy a Samsung.

GroundLoop
Aug 8, 2003, 06:36 AM
I agree with everyone else here in saying that you should go for the dual 19s. I also just ordered a dual 19" setup from Dell yesterday (2 1901FP @ $562 each). 50% more screen real estate than a 20" cinema (at a lower price even with the educational discount). They will be replacing a 21" CRT that I have had for a little over 5 years. Just make sure you let us know how you like the dual 19s.

Hickman

legion
Aug 8, 2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by MBMatt11
On a side note, does opengl work with two display because I read somewhere online that it did not.

OpenGL works across two monitors. OpenGL is just a language for rendering that is an open standards (hence Open G L) Hardware dependency usually is just a matter of certification to meet the Open standards, the GPU is the same (usually there's just an added programmable feature set)

Macs and x86s will act the same on this. Spanning monitors will place the dock/xp taskbar on whichever screen you make the primary. The application bar in OS X will be also on the same screen as the dock bar. (Since XP UI doesn't have such an item, the windows continue to hold there frames without an "application bar") The extra space on the other screen is just that and will act natively; if you start with your mouse on one screen and move horizontally , it'll pass to the other screen as if it was one continuous screen)

legion
Aug 8, 2003, 01:55 PM
As long as we're talking about dual displays and the rumoured 30" Cinema, I just wanted to chime in that you can have too many screens and too much screen real estate.

At work I have a 5 monitor setup (all Sony PremierePro 24") each running at 1920 resolution. They're set up in an arc around me, bezel-to-bezel, and they're all connected to a Matrox solution for multi-monitoring and individual x86s and Macs for simple dual displaying. (They have fast input switching so you just press a button and you go from one continous screen dedicated to one Matrox system to a combined cluster with:
dual spanning connected to a mac setup using its private video card, dual spanning conected to a x86 setup using its private video card, and one monitor screen that's mirrored to a background Plasma HDTV for real-time playback. (I just realized it sounds like I'm just trying to make everyone jealous, but I actually have a point:p )

With that much space, it takes a lot of effort to use all the screens. Usually I'm just dedicated to two screens at a time. If I had a hi-res 30" Cinema, I'd either have to sit farther back (and loose detail) or have to constantly move my head to manage everything. That gets really tedious when working with programs. Think of the small movements made with a mouse to get around screen space and then realize your neck will have to do an exaggerated version of that movement all day. 30" flat panels have their place, but as TVs, not computer lcds. The only way to make something like this work is to have an arced 30" so that your face is always equidistant from the screen (and I'm sorry to have to mention this, but that was demonstarted in the workspace project from Microsoft last year:eek: )

Ok, 'nuff of my rant on the evils of too big, I know someone will always want bigger even if it is less funcitonal!:D

edesignuk
Aug 8, 2003, 01:59 PM
@legion - I have to ask, WTF do you do to need all that kit? Whatever it is, do you need an assistant? ;)

I know what you mean though, we have systems @ work with up to 6 18" LCD's attached, just finding where your cursor has gone takes half and hour! God knows how you'd ever get anything done. 2 (3 maybe) screens is what I like, and is what I use both at home and at work.

MBMatt11
Aug 8, 2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by MBMatt11
On a side note, does opengl work with two display because I read somewhere online that it did not.

When I said opengl i meant quartz extreme. Sorry

Can anyone confirm that it works with extended desktop

edesignuk
Aug 8, 2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by MBMatt11
When I said opengl i meant quartz extreme. Sorry

Can anyone confirm that it works with extended desktop
It certainly seems to work, I am running dual screens and everything is smooth on both displays, I don't really know how I could test for sure.

daveg5
Aug 9, 2003, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by legion
As long as we're talking about dual displays and the rumoured 30" Cinema, I just wanted to chime in that you can have too many screens and too much screen real estate.

At work I have a 5 monitor setup (all Sony PremierePro 24") each running at 1920 resolution. They're set up in an arc around me, bezel-to-bezel, and they're all connected to a Matrox solution for multi-monitoring and individual x86s and Macs for simple dual displaying. (They have fast input switching so you just press a button and you go from one continous screen dedicated to one Matrox system to a combined cluster with:
dual spanning connected to a mac setup using its private video card, dual spanning conected to a x86 setup using its private video card, and one monitor screen that's mirrored to a background Plasma HDTV for real-time playback. (I just realized it sounds like I'm just trying to make everyone jealous, but I actually have a point:p )

With that much space, it takes a lot of effort to use all the screens. Usually I'm just dedicated to two screens at a time. If I had a hi-res 30" Cinema, I'd either have to sit farther back (and loose detail) or have to constantly move my head to manage everything. That gets really tedious when working with programs. Think of the small movements made with a mouse to get around screen space and then realize your neck will have to do an exaggerated version of that movement all day. 30" flat panels have their place, but as TVs, not computer lcds. The only way to make something like this work is to have an arced 30" so that your face is always equidistant from the screen (and I'm sorry to have to mention this, but that was demonstarted in the workspace project from Microsoft last year:eek: )

Ok, 'nuff of my rant on the evils of too big, I know someone will always want bigger even if it is less funcitonal!:D
this is why programs like codeteks virtual desktop are so valueble. they can give you 100 independant screens each with diff setups and backgrounds and you simply select with a pager which screen you want, you can drag from one screen to the next and it saves the neck muscles, for notebooks its a must, for dual monitor setups it gives you more options, for single large monitor setups it can save you the cost, both purchase and energy, not to mention deskspace of a second monitor.
i have two monitors one 21" trinitron and a smaller 17. with virtual desktop i now use only the 21" as there is no need for the 17" anymore. i hope to have a 20" cinema next year with no dead pixels to go along with the 21", which i will keep for game playing, color photo work, and super high and low res non native resolutions lacking on the lcd.
anyway give it a try as a 3rd option till you get your second monitor, they have a free 2 screen demo, the 100 screen version is $30.
no i dont work for them, but i think it is a great product that should be in mac osx instead of expose, and will help many with one large monitor get the benefits of dual screens or a 100 screens on the cheap
anyway, let me know what you think?
peace

Squire
Aug 10, 2003, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by tazo
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him buy a Samsung.

Funny you mention that. I walked into a friend's house the other day. She had a brand new Samsung computer system, complete with 17" widescreen monitor. Hmmm, I thought, that looks a lot like my iMac's screen. I believe they are one in the same, just different badges.

BTW, who makes the 20" display for Apple? Is it also Samsung?

Squire

tazo
Aug 10, 2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Squire
Funny you mention that. I walked into a friend's house the other day. She had a brand new Samsung computer system, complete with 17" widescreen monitor. Hmmm, I thought, that looks a lot like my iMac's screen. I believe they are one in the same, just different badges.

BTW, who makes the 20" display for Apple? Is it also Samsung?

Squire

heh I don't know how manufactures their displys. Do you have a link to this widescreen monitor??

Squire
Aug 10, 2003, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by tazo
heh I don't know how manufactures their displys. Do you have a link to this widescreen monitor??

Here's an article from the Mac Observer. It's old (2000) but mentions Apple's investment in Samsung and it hints at Samsung's 17" display going on a Mac.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2000/08/17.6.shtml

Squire

Datazoid
Aug 11, 2003, 12:22 AM
Matt: Regarding the webpage you posted, it was only referring to [not] supporting 16MB Radeon cards on PowerBooks and iBooks....

PowerBook G4 550MHz and 667MHz with CD-RW, DVD or Combo drives, 16MB RAM with ATI Mobility Radeon**

PowerBook G4 667 and 800MHz, 32MB RAM with ATI Mobility Radeon 7500

iBook 600MHz and 700MHz, 16MB RAM with ATI Mobility Radeon**



**Quartz Extreme is not supported in extended desktop mode of multiple display configurations. Mirrored displays are supported.

kettle
Aug 11, 2003, 01:02 AM
I think dual 19"diamondtrons would beat both of the LCD options.

just MHO
:)

MBMatt11
Aug 11, 2003, 01:58 AM
Thanks for all you help

Playfrsbee
Aug 11, 2003, 06:55 PM
There's one exception to the overwhelming preference of 2-19's over 1-twenty inch. If you are doing VIDEO. Having the longer timeline is the best thing ever for running Final Cut Pro. Typically, people only use the 2nd monitor for keeping their clip viewer (list of clips available). And to me this is a big waste. With a widescreen monitor, you can keep your screen in the "3-UP" configuration, and everything is right in front of you, conserving desk space and neck rotation.

Of course, it'd doubtful that they person who asked this question is going to do video, as he mentioned wanting to use the monitor(s) with a PC--and why would you ever want to edit video on a windows machine?:D

That's it. Whatcha think?

Ethan

legion
Aug 11, 2003, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Playfrsbee

Of course, it'd doubtful that they person who asked this question is going to do video, as he mentioned wanting to use the monitor(s) with a PC--and why would you ever want to edit video on a windows machine?:D


why edit video on windows....
Avid, Discreet, Pinnacle Liquid or going to animation, Maya, RenderMan...

You don't have to be either/or about platforms since there's definitely a place for x86 in video post (just most of the systems are above $10K, instead of a consumer price level) CineWave from Pinnacle and FCP are great for fast edits and in-field use, but I'd never render a final product on them. MHO and counterpoint:rolleyes:

edesignuk
Aug 12, 2003, 02:29 AM
Originally posted by kettle
I think dual 19"diamondtrons would beat both of the LCD options.

just MHO
:)
And take any desk space you had with them :eek:

Mac Kiwi
Aug 12, 2003, 07:28 AM
I have a G52ghz on order and am hoping for a Quadro card {drivers arriving for us that is},I also want a decent LCD,I have a neurological condition and am into 3d animation {C4D} the refresh rate of a crt screws with me something wicked.So how long does it take to get used to the annoying gap between the duals?,and what would you consider a really good Samsung {I hear good things about Samsungs and Iayama}with a low bezel edge width :) ...2 x at least 20s is what I am looking for,will have a 9800 if no Quadro turns up.



Thanks

Stu.