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mattpen
Aug 6, 2003, 11:19 PM
Okay I'm debating whether to get the 12'' ibook or the 14'' ibook, either way I plan to get 640mb of ram, a 60gb hard drive airport, and an extra battery, and 900mhz. However I am paying for this by myself and saving 200 bucks or so would be very very nice, however I'm wondering if the smaller screen space would be worth the money, I would mainly be using it for school, and taking on trips and stuff. The most intensive thing I would ever do with it is using iPhoto, watching dvds, and typing with itunes in the background. Any Suggestions?

Oh and also, My dad has a 17'' imac, so I guess I could use that for stuff too. :-/

pstoehr
Aug 7, 2003, 01:24 AM
From my point of view 14" iBook has no real benefits.
The screen has the same resolution, the keyboard is the same, ...

Save your money for an iPod :)
Peter

arn
Aug 7, 2003, 03:35 AM
yeah - ditto.

the 14" rez is the same as the 12". So you get no more functionality.

Unless you want it bigger (bad eye sight etc...), I'd go for the 12".

arn

big
Aug 7, 2003, 09:24 AM
I disagree, I had a 12" and it was ok until I bought the 14"...

then I realized just how small 12" is. after using both as my primary computer, I now question if I want the 15"PB or 17"

the 12" I never could see a full web page or the mail app would not sit right. that extra 2" makes a big difference in ever aspect

Kwyjibo
Aug 7, 2003, 10:00 AM
the problem with what your saying BIG, is that the screens have the same amount of space (same pixels) in the 12 and 14" so your complaints about things not sitting right are silly because they would take up the same amount of screen they would just look bigger.

Hugin777
Aug 7, 2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Kwyjibo
the problem with what your saying BIG, is that the screens have the same amount of space (same pixels) in the 12 and 14" so your complaints about things not sitting right are silly because they would take up the same amount of screen they would just look bigger.

OS X should know the size of the screen (inches, not pixels) and scale everything up on the 12". At least in theory.

The 12" should have a higher DPI, but the size of especially fonts should be the same in inches on the two screens.

So the 12" should in fact have less screen real estate than the 14"er...

Isn't this the case ?

big
Aug 7, 2003, 11:15 AM
the 12" has less screen realestate, that's why they sell a larger iBook....

you can see it easiest when looking at the title bar "Finder, File, Edit, view, GO, Window, Help" these travel much further across the screen on the 12" even getting very close to the clock etc...
on the 14" there is way more room between that & the clock,

big
Aug 7, 2003, 11:22 AM
but you shsould ultimatly go to an Apple store & see how it works best for you.

I actually like the way the 12" is so easy to hold, and works with your hands over the 14", I just really like the extra pixels in the 14"

in any instance, every Apple store should have a big fluffy couch or chair, for you to sit in and goof off with their laptops, wouldn't that be neat?

Blackstealth
Aug 7, 2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by big
the 12" has less screen realestate, that's why they sell a larger iBook....


The LCD displays installed in the 12" and 14" iBooks both have a native resolution of 1024x768 - So there aren't any extra pixels.

They both only do 640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768. The only way in which the 14" screen would seem like it had extra pixels (or extra screen realestate) would be if you used a 12" at 800x600 and a 14" at 1024x768.

big
Aug 7, 2003, 03:08 PM
I always have heard the term "screen realestate" to mean how much you have...

so I was using it in the ideal that the 14" lot was larger, so you could put more on it than a 12" lot.

hwever, I do understand that resolution changes things, but since they both can do 1024x768, (I assume everyone would use this res) then the 14" can actually hold more info on the viewable screen, that's all I was trying to say, that I like the way the 12" feels holding it, but to ME, the 14" is a better laptop

for me, I'm probably one of those people to go out and buy the 17" PB over the 15" too...

don know yet, I'm still debating

QCassidy352
Aug 7, 2003, 03:24 PM
I've had both; both are great. I like the 14" better right now because I don't have a desktop, and that 12" screen gets pretty hard on the eyes if you're using it a long time. I also don't travel with my ibook as much as some other people do, so the 1 extra lb. really doesn't matter (not that one lb. would be a big deal anyway...).

If I did travel a lot or had a desktop with a nice big display I'd probably go for the 12". In my current situation, the 14" is better.

Really, you have to see and hold them both to know which you will prefer. It's the only way.

btw, the battery life is noticably better on the 14". I can play a 2 hour dvd and still have ~50% battery life left.

Kwyjibo
Aug 7, 2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by big
I actually like the way the 12" is so easy to hold, and works with your hands over the 14", I just really like the extra pixels in the 14"

Ok there are no extra pixels in the 14", OK think about it like this , On the 12" iBook the pixels are the size of dimes and on the 14" iBook the pixels are the size of quarters.... You still have the same resolution (number of quarters in each) and windows still take up the same number of pixels. Safari for example takes up like 600x800 coins, now if its spread across the dimes it looks smaller, if its spread across the quarters its larger and easier to see. Resolution...it doesn't make the image on the quarters any better. Infact its worse because the pixels are larger themselves. Now when you talk about more realestate, there isn't more actualy window to use, the effect your talking about is making the windows smaller than normal and using more windows at once. You could do the same on the 12" iBook but it would be even smaller. I hope this make sense to you, the term real estate, generally refers to the room provided by pixels. The 15" Powerbook for example has more real estate with 1280-by-854 resolution compared to 1024x768, those extra pixels provide more room for the windows , the 17" powerbook has even more realestate 1440-by-900. How things seem and how things are makes a difference. Many people, myself included think the 14" iBook is a bit clumsy (partially because of the screen-rez issue), its fine if you like the magnification effect it provides but the bottom line is that the screen has the same amount of real-estate. Think of it like TVS. All TVs that have Tubes usually maintain the same resolution from liek 13" to 36" its when you move to the HDTV and the Plasma TV's that you see altered resolutions and ratios... I hope this clears this up.


I think DPI is a term thats used for prints and print quality. They sell a 14" iBook because customers requested a bigger screen, they however did not provide more space to work in.

big
Aug 7, 2003, 04:48 PM
ummm, going to Mac store tomorrow to compare the two.....will take a picture

is anyone else reading this? no offense, but pixels are pixels, there are actually more pixels on the 14", they are not larger

the SCREEN IS actually larger on the 14", and a single image the same image looks exactly the same on both screens (if both laptops are held side by side, you could measure it if you'd like (with a ruler) and the image would prove to be the same size)

the LCD is cut from the sam emanufacturing process (bolt of material, whatever)

its like making chocolate chip cookies. Imagine the chips as pixels, and the cookie part, the part tthat holds it all together.

in a cookie cake, the chips are the same size as a small cookie is...and that's how things are

the cookie cake is just larger

but that's not to say the ibooks cannot change the size of their cookies by dropping to a lower resolution, cookies can not. You can only eat them

Kwyjibo
Aug 7, 2003, 05:11 PM
For the third time

From apple's site " Both models have brilliant 1024-by-768-pixel resolution ideal for doing everything from working on spreadsheets to displaying your movies and digital pictures in millions of colors "

The resolution is the number of pixels, pixels are a unit of size like the inch but not the same. OSX does not care what size the screen is, it cares about the number of pixels. To the operating system the display on the 12" and 14" iBook is the same under the same video card. You have to understand this very basic fact. The pixels are bigger on the 14" iBook because they are streched over the screen compared to the 12" iBook, the same way the pixels are strechted across TV's, I"m sorry this is so hard to understand but this is how it works. Programs have set sizes they open to, Programers say I want this to open and be 100x200 pixels, if you have a 23" display or a 10" display, the program will open up at that size , because thats how its written into the program. OSX is intuitive (sp? ) but its not magicx either, iTunes opens at the same number of pixels on every machine, because thats how its programed. It appears bigger becase the pixels are bigger on the 14" iBook. Since the pixels are spread more you cna downsize it a little and still have it be functional and then open more windows and how more perceived work space.

Do you have a spare CRT around ? Use the VGA adapter to mirror the display to a 17" CRT with 1024x768 as its main resolution. That 17" CRT has the same resolution and hence real estate as the iBook but things will LOOK bigger. They are not bigger they are the same size as on the iBook but they will look bigger becuase its a bigger display. I don't know how else to explaing this. Same resolution means same real estate, you don't need to compare them to know this, if you perform your experiments and tests with a ruler you will see that the images and programs on the 14" iBook are bigger due to magnifcation.

Hugin777
Aug 7, 2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by big
is anyone else reading this? no offense, but pixels are pixels, there are actually more pixels on the 14", they are not larger

The other posters claim that there are the same number of pixels on the two models.

Originally posted by big
the LCD is cut from the sam emanufacturing process (bolt of material, whatever)

its like making chocolate chip cookies. Imagine the chips as pixels, and the cookie part, the part tthat holds it all together.

in a cookie cake, the chips are the same size as a small cookie is...and that's how things are

the cookie cake is just larger

If the other posters are right this is wrong. The chips would be larger in the (larger) cake.

But my point is that OS X is a modern operating system, so it should know that the pixels are smaller in the 12" LCD and therefore scale e.g. fonts to be the correct height in points (1/72 inch). If it doesn't do this it truly sucks.

When scaled the same text will use a lot more pixels on the 12" LCD and therefore the end result is more spare pixels on the 14" model.

Some things may not be scaled. Some windows for example. I don't know... But as "big" mentions you would probably have less space left for icons between the menu and the clock.

Am I completely wrong here ?

(and DPI is just "dots per inch", og "pixels per inch"; it's not just for printing)

(For the record I am a Computer Science student)

big
Aug 7, 2003, 05:19 PM
ok, I will go compare them.... I am not saying I am wrong, I usually lean towards the fact that I do not know what I am talking about, however, I am willing to concede, since I can not sit in front of the two and see them for my self.

once I get the chance, I'll let you know for sure that you are correct (we will just give you the honorary title until I prove myself wrong tomorrow)

so with that being said, you have beaten an old man, on his birthday.

now I will go hang my head, and say thanks for keeping me from work

Kwyjibo
Aug 7, 2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Hugin777
(and DPI is just "dots per inch", og "pixels per inch"; it's not just for printing)

(For the record I am a Computer Science student)

I've never heard DPI used for LCDS tho, thats why I said that.

mattpen
Aug 7, 2003, 07:19 PM
How big of a difference in battery life will there be between the two models? I plan on using it for watching DVD's on trips too.

CmdrLaForge
Aug 8, 2003, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by big
I disagree, I had a 12" and it was ok until I bought the 14"...

then I realized just how small 12" is. after using both as my primary computer, I now question if I want the 15"PB or 17"

the 12" I never could see a full web page or the mail app would not sit right. that extra 2" makes a big difference in ever aspect

Nonsense- -both screens have 1024x768 pixels.

I have the 12" iBook and I can really recommend this one.

If you want to carry it around it is much better and the screen has the same resolution

Cheers

Kwyjibo
Aug 8, 2003, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by mattpen
How big of a difference in battery life will there be between the two models? I plan on using it for watching DVD's on trips too.


apple says max is 5hr for the 12 and 6hr for the 14, Realistically at most I got 4 1/2 hours from my iBook watching a DVD would take it down to 3 1/2. I would assume the 14" iBook gets about an hour more on each. I've read that more ram will help battery life too because it causes less writing to the HD and things like that. Also if your turn off things like airport and don't run excessive programs while plaiyng the DVD you will get better battery life.