G5 PowerMacs Shipping?

[MacRumors]

AppleInsider claims (http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=125) that "several of Apple's larger corporate and government customers" have already started receiving shipments of the PowerMac G5 in both single and dual configurations "a couple of weeks ago".

The Mac OS X 10.2.7 shipping with these machines is said to be a pre-release version -- as Apple seeded developers with a version of 10.2.7 just this past Tuesday (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030805225011.shtml).

While it seems unlikely that PowerMac G5s would make their way into the wild without photos and benchmarks being instantly posted to the internet, MacBidouille posted (http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-08-07#344) (what appears to be) an independent updates with similar claims:

According to one of our sources, some large customers of Apple already got their Dual 2GHz G5 about three weeks ago.

[Chealion]

I guess that disproves most ideas about the G5s being delayed...

[Mr. Anderson]

What I really like about the Mac Bidouille article

- Next generation of G5 is around the corner and could appear in December. This won't only mean a frequency jump but also improvement to the motherboard (notably on the PCI-X)


Just one more reason to wait for Rev. B aside from getting Panther pre-installed....:D

D

[arn]

it just makes little sense that no one would post pics/benches.

it's not like it's under NDA. It's a publically announced product.

arn

[voyagerd]

I want my G5 to ship now! It's only a lowly 1.8...

[iGav]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
What I really like about the Mac Bidouille article



Just one more reason to wait for Rev. B aside from getting Panther pre-installed....:D

D

I think this is the way it's going to be from now on, if Apple can update every 3 months, then it'll equal out the sales pattern over the course of a year, rather than products falling off at every 6 month interval or whenever there is a Mac Expo...

It's going to be so strange getting regular updates... but I thought Jobs seemed more bullish than usual when he was presenting the G5... ;)

[mactastic]

Originally posted by iGAV
I think this is the way it's going to be from now on, if Apple can update every 3 months, then it'll equal out the sales pattern over the course of a year, rather than products falling off at every 6 month interval or whenever there is a Mac Expo...

It's going to be so strange getting regular updates... but I thought Jobs seemed more bullish than usual when he was presenting the G5... ;)

I particularly liked the part where he publicly stated that we will be seeing 3Ghz chips within a year! Holy floating point operations Batman!

[trog]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson


Just one more reason to wait for Rev. B aside from getting Panther pre-installed....:D

Is there any reason to think that the Panther upgrade will be free for those that buy Powermacs now?

I thought I'd heard that a couple months ago?

[Flowbee]

OK, so who are "Apple's larger corporate and government customers?"

[trog]

Originally posted by arn
it just makes little sense that no one would post pics/benches.

it's not like it's under NDA. It's a publically announced product.

arn
ABSOLUTELY. I've got my digital camera warmed up and ready to go the second mine shows up. I think most consumers are pretty close to as excited as I am about it, so it is definitely a little odd.

[jaedreth]

If updates do start coming this fast, I'm gonna have to save my money up quick, else I won't be able to afford a new comp til G6!

Um, wait, that's not a *bad* thing, is it? :)

Jaedreth

(Adam West: "To the batpole, Robin...")

[agreenster]

Originally posted by Flowbee
OK, so who are "Apple's larger corporate and government customers?"

Pixar has been testing Renderman on a G5 for a long time, so I wonder if they already have a received shipment....:confused:

[Abstract]

Originally posted by arn
it just makes little sense that no one would post pics/benches.

it's not like it's under NDA. It's a publically announced product.

arn

And that's why I don't believe it. ;)

[daveL]

Originally posted by arn
it just makes little sense that no one would post pics/benches.

it's not like it's under NDA. It's a publically announced product.

arn
Yes, but this strikes me as an "early access" program, since they are still running pre-release 10.2.7. If this is the case, it *would* be covered by NDA. Companies that provide early access to products not shipping yet don't want any remaining warts made public, rather they want to learn about them and get them fixed.

[Postal]

Just a quick bit:

Last night (Wednesday), http://www.pixarm.com/g5 had a Flash-based slideshow of photos of a G5 in person. If you go to that URL now, you're redirected to the main pixarm.com page. If you try a genuinely non-existent directory on pixarm.com, you get a 404 error - so you have your "proof" that they have a G5.

For those who haven't clicked the link: the PixArm is a product from Marathon Computer that lets you put an Apple Cinema/Studio Display on a swivelling arm mounted to a desk. So in effect, we know that Marathon has at least one G5 on their hands.

[Vlade]

Originally posted by arn
it just makes little sense that no one would post pics/benches.

it's not like it's under NDA. It's a publically announced product.

arn

Remember, government agencies aren't like mac freaks, they don't post pictures as soon as they receive their products

[mxpiazza]

all i'm saying, is that i recenty converted about 4 of my friends to mac's (they all got the powerbook 12", even though i told them to wait... oh well) and i got to set all of them up. now i'm the odd man out, sitting here, waiting for my g5. if i read one more story about how these things are coming and mine dosen't, i'm going to flip! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

[crees!]

Originally posted by Postal
Just a quick bit:

Last night (Wednesday), http://www.pixarm.com/g5 had a Flash-based slideshow of photos of a G5 in person. If you go to that URL now, you're redirected to the main pixarm.com page. If you try a genuinely non-existent directory on pixarm.com, you get a 404 error - so you have your "proof" that they have a G5.

For those who haven't clicked the link: the PixArm is a product from Marathon Computer that lets you put an Apple Cinema/Studio Display on a swivelling arm mounted to a desk. So in effect, we know that Marathon has at least one G5 on their hands.

Actually that link is still up and working. You just need a '/' at the end. Try www.pixarm.com/g5/

[JBracy]

Originally posted by arn
it just makes little sense that no one would post pics/benches.

it's not like it's under NDA. It's a publically announced product.

arn

Originally posted by Vlade
Remember, government agencies aren't like mac freaks, they don't post pictures as soon as they receive their products

Also don't forget that not only are Government Agencies bound by NDA from Apple, but by Security Clearances. You just try getting a digital camera into the CIA, FBI, NRO etc... (All of which are large Mac users BTW). Is it really worth going to jail - or worse - just to post a few pics on Mac Rumors?

[Bob Knob]

Originally posted by arn
it just makes little sense that no one would post pics/benches.

it's not like it's under NDA. It's a publically announced product.

arn

As some of the others have said, this is not necessarily true. I am under a few NDAs for things that have been in the public for years, but my work and knowledge of the projects are still covered. This also covers what I had and when I had it.

I can say that at least two of the developers that I work with (I am not under NDA, but they might be) had a G5 in house one week after the WWDC

[Mr.Hey]

A MacAddict forum user reports on a G5 that he has access too...pics and additional comments soon to come.

mentholiptus

First off, pictures will come at the end of the work day, I'm on lunch break now.

1) It's about as heavy as the current towers.

2) FREAKING QUIET! And that's with your ear up to the front grill

3) Although it looks like a mammoth, it's only about 2 inches taller than the G3-G4 towers (I used a tape measure) 8" wide, 19" long, and about 20 and a half tall.

4) there is an internal speaker, abd it's mounted next to the fan in the front of the video card cooling chamber.

5) It looks cool running with the door off

6) I selected 10 apps from the apps folder (runing 10.2.7) and hit command+o to open them all, and it took around 5-10 seconds for them all to launch.

7) iTunes ran at 63fps on a 20" CD LCD with the radeon 9600

8) (this will soon be a link to pictures) Macaddict (http://www.macaddict.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=28075&sid=23ca03b7424b468fae76270fe8e61eea)

[wms121]

nice little IBM news blip...

http://www.ibm.com/news/us/2003/08/051.html


Mars needs wimmen!

(Yes I am now getting RTOS people emailing me to death..DoD
buzzheads are alive...spread the word..)

<--consulting for cash only

[inkswamp]

Originally posted by Flowbee
OK, so who are "Apple's larger corporate and government customers?"

Apple Stores. ;)

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by crees!
Actually that link is still up and working. You just need a '/' at the end. Try www.pixarm.com/g5/

well, actually that link only kinda works too...

if you click the above link it takes you to what appears to be a blank white screen, but if you select the url, delete the /g5/ from it, and hit return, you can see the flash document very briefly on the screen showing the ports of a g5. Or at least that's how it's working for me.

[crees!]

Originally posted by Mudbug
well, actually that link only kinda works too...

if you click the above link it takes you to what appears to be a blank white screen, but if you select the url, delete the /g5/ from it, and hit return, you can see the flash document very briefly on the screen showing the ports of a g5. Or at least that's how it's working for me.

I was able to view all 4 screen shots with no problem at all. The title of the page is "G5 Image Gallery". Though these pictures aren't anything we haven't seen.. they are presented nicely.

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by agreenster
Pixar has been testing Renderman on a G5 for a long time, so I wonder if they already have a received shipment....:confused:

You mean steve's *other* company gets First Dibs?

To Shame!
To Shame!

[thevil]

Originally posted by Mudbug
well, actually that link only kinda works too...

if you click the above link it takes you to what appears to be a blank white screen, but if you select the url, delete the /g5/ from it, and hit return, you can see the flash document very briefly on the screen showing the ports of a g5. Or at least that's how it's working for me.

The size of the .swf-file might make Safari time out.

Try http://www.pixarm.com/g5/slideshow.swf

[wirewyrm]

The PowerMacs are built in Ireland. The plant itself is in Cork. This information is probably not entirely correct, as the G5 has not entered full scale production. All of the G5's seen at Macworld were hand built pre-production machines, though most were built to production spec. (It is possible that select developers could have gotten hold of one of these machines as quite a few have been built).

At the moment the plant is just beginning to run out the first machines, while more machinery and tools specific to G5 production is moved in and fitted and the parts required for assembly are delivered. Full production of the PowerMac G5 is expected to begin at the Cork plant during the first or second week of August, plenty of time to fulfill those orders.

The PPC970 Processor itself only went into full production VERY recently!!

[jaedreth]

So if the chips just recently went into production, they're still tooling up the G5 factory, I sure hope that the G4 chips are finally being received in volume.

Jaedreth

(if the G5's ship before the G4's, I'll make up some Motorola voodoo dolls to do sadistic things to...)

[bobindashadows]

Originally posted by thevil
The size of the .swf-file might make Safari time out.

Try http://www.pixarm.com/g5/slideshow.swf
Hey, is there an APE or something that can fix that? Thanks...

[DrGonzo]

Go here instead, that flash "gallery" sucks hard.

http://homepage.mac.com/mentholiptus/PhotoAlbum28.html

[yoshi1013]

Dude, I don't know if there's been anything in my lifetime so far that has merited so much excitement and drool as this damn computer.

Certain things like highly anticipated movies ("Return of the King" baby!!!) get me really excited and stuff. But these aren't things that will necessarily keep you up all night once you get it.

Seeing as about four years ago at this time I was buying a G3 (ignorant of impending G4s) and haven't upgraded since, I think that I should say goodbye to my friends for a few days when it finally arrives.

I doubt PC Users out there get this excited about their computers.

[DrGonzo]

Originally posted by yoshi1013
I doubt PC Users out there get this excited about their computers.

I do when i BUILD my own computer. Stop being an Apple elitest. Granted, there really hasn't been anything groundbreaking in pcs for awhlie, but there's no reason to say that.

[fluffy]

When I was at Siggraph this year, Pixar had a G5 at their booth, showing off how fast Renderman ran on it. And as far as I could tell (not having actually used Renderman before), it was amazingly fast. :)

Unfortunately, I don't have a working digital camera, so I couldn't take pictures. :/

[Mac Kiwi]

Originally posted by MrMacman
You mean steve's *other* company gets First Dibs?

To Shame!
To Shame!



A friend in a game company tells me word is Pixar have ordered "hundreds" of G5s... :)

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by wirewyrm
...while more machinery and tools specific to G5 production is moved in and fitted and the parts required for assembly are delivered....

Bleah. I'd be happy to stuff the pieces in an ATX case if it meant I could use a G5 faster, without waiting for possible delays in tooling for fancy aluminum bits. Wish I had the option...

[firedrake]

I ordered my G5 yesterday, and was told it will be here "on or before October 17th."

Sheesh!

New board member

[jaedreth]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by yoshi1013
I doubt PC Users out there get this excited about their computers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.alienware.com/gaming_main_desktop.aspx

http://www.alienware.com/system_pages/area-51m.aspx

Apple has nowhere *NEAR* the price/feature ratio these guys have.

Nor do they have anywhere near the cosmetic options.

A friend of mine and myself got very excited looking over their website, and he's gonna buy one. I'm still undecided. I'll give Apple a chance, but I seriously doubt they will come out with systems *this* sweet.

Jaedreth

[firedrake]

They're nice boxes, Jaedreth, but that's not what I buy a system for. I've been using Macs since 1987, and I'm -not- primarily a gamer. I do graphics. Lots of graphics. I am bilingual, and can use both OS's, Unix or even Sun Workstations.

I like Macintosh. Flashy plastic boxes don't improve the machine. Their features are pleasant, but the bottom line is: they're still using Winblows.

[fluffy]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Bleah. I'd be happy to stuff the pieces in an ATX case if it meant I could use a G5 faster, without waiting for possible delays in tooling for fancy aluminum bits. Wish I had the option...

I doubt a standard ATX case could sufficiently cool a G5 though, at least not without adding a huge mess of noisy fans. Most of the G5's case engineering went into the massive cooling requirements...

[MattG]

Originally posted by jaedreth
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by yoshi1013
I doubt PC Users out there get this excited about their computers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.alienware.com/gaming_main_desktop.aspx

http://www.alienware.com/system_pages/area-51m.aspx

Apple has nowhere *NEAR* the price/feature ratio these guys have.

Nor do they have anywhere near the cosmetic options.

A friend of mine and myself got very excited looking over their website, and he's gonna buy one. I'm still undecided. I'll give Apple a chance, but I seriously doubt they will come out with systems *this* sweet.

Jaedreth Pfffft.

Look at that notebook. It looks like it's about 3-4 Powerbooks-worth thick!

[theRebel]

Originally posted by arn
it just makes little sense that no one would post pics/benches.

it's not like it's under NDA. It's a publically announced product.

arn

Actually it is possible that the early delivery to select clients could be under the condition of an NDA.


Edit: Ooops, after making my post, I read on and discovered various other people had already stated the same thing.

[wizard]

I truely have to wonder what it will take to clear up this sort of ignorance. It has been clearly stated by Apple that the engineering effort put into the case was to eliminate noise. The heat put out by the 970's is not exceptional.

The unfortunate thing is that, in designing the case, they seemed to have forgotten about the potential users. But I don't want to stir that issue up agian.

Please read the infiormation that Apple has been suppling the world before repeating this non-information.

thanks
Dave


Originally posted by fluffy
I doubt a standard ATX case could sufficiently cool a G5 though, at least not without adding a huge mess of noisy fans. Most of the G5's case engineering went into the massive cooling requirements...

[jaedreth]

Quote:
____
Pfffft.

Look at that notebook. It looks like it's about 3-4 Powerbooks-worth thick!
____

Yeah, and it's 3-4 times the computer as well.

Apple needs to learn that portable users want power as well. You can't fit a true powerhouse in a 1" thick computer. Not everyone wants a 1" thick computer. We should have a choice.

Give us streamlined 1" thick, and give us an option for a more luggable (aka heavier, less portable) powerhouse.

PowerBook G4 Pro or something.

Apple's idea of "sex appeal" is far outwaying it's use of kick ass configs. You can't make a computer that awesome as small as the PB's. So make bigger ones too. Please.

Jaedreth

[eric_n_dfw]

Gamers are not where the lions share of the laptop market is though. Most users tend to rank laptop features in the following order (1st two almost tied IMO): weight, battery life, screen size, performance, screen resolution, extras packaged with it.

That being said, Alienware's (awesome) laptops are not aiming for that crowd - they are aiming for the gamer, pure and simple.

[panphage]

jaedreth, the powerbooks DID kick that kind of ass when they were kept current. They were VERY close to the performance of the apple desktops, only 1" thick. This says more about how anemic the desktops had gotten than about the power of the laptops, IMO anyway. When the 970 gets a die shrink, maybe we'll have even more options, such as a massively clocked G5 powerbook (2.0? 2.5?) that eats batteries at an alarming rate and weighs in close to a baby elephant. This behemoth might sit next to a 1" powerbook that runs for 6 hours on a charge and weighs about 5#, only it does it with the massive power and bandwidth of a 1.4/1.6GHz G5 "M". The M5?

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by Macrumors
AppleInsider claims (http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=125) that "several of Apple's larger corporate and government customers" have already started receiving shipments of the PowerMac G5 in both single and dual configurations "a couple of weeks ago".

The Mac OS X 10.2.7 shipping with these machines is said to be a pre-release version -- as Apple seeded developers with a version of 10.2.7

This makes perfect sense if you consider the beta testers for hardware and software are under bulletproof NDA's yet are the very first to receive Rev001 hardware.

It also makes sense that they would be so gunshy about the NDA as to not even release details about early SHIPPING units under fear of random litigation or retribution.

After all, less than a few weeks later consumers will disclose plenty and they have PLENTY to lose, especially first access to 3ghz G5's and G6's.

I for one would hold back if I thought G6 access early and often would be the result.

Rocketman

Powerprint beta tester (yes it rocks)

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by yoshi1013
Dude, I don't know if there's been anything in my lifetime so far that has merited so much excitement and drool as this damn computer.


Exactly correct. Heck, even corporations are taking note. That's scary.

Originally posted by yoshi1013
I doubt PC Users out there get this excited about their computers.

Of course. They are commodities, not "insanely great" and observed from "reality distortion fields".

Rocketman

[fluffy]

Originally posted by panphage
jaedreth, the powerbooks DID kick that kind of ass when they were kept current. They were VERY close to the performance of the apple desktops, only 1" thick. This says more about how anemic the desktops had gotten than about the power of the laptops, IMO anyway. When the 970 gets a die shrink, maybe we'll have even more options, such as a massively clocked G5 powerbook (2.0? 2.5?) that eats batteries at an alarming rate and weighs in close to a baby elephant. This behemoth might sit next to a 1" powerbook that runs for 6 hours on a charge and weighs about 5#, only it does it with the massive power and bandwidth of a 1.4/1.6GHz G5 "M". The M5?

ANd yet, without a faster memory bus or hard drives, the power-eating G5 laptop won't go appreciably faster than the G4 laptops for even the most computationally-intensive real-world applications...

[Fukui]

Originally posted by jaedreth
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by yoshi1013
I doubt PC Users out there get this excited about their computers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.alienware.com/gaming_main_desktop.aspx

http://www.alienware.com/system_pages/area-51m.aspx

Apple has nowhere *NEAR* the price/feature ratio these guys have.

Nor do they have anywhere near the cosmetic options.

A friend of mine and myself got very excited looking over their website, and he's gonna buy one. I'm still undecided. I'll give Apple a chance, but I seriously doubt they will come out with systems *this* sweet.

Jaedreth
Nice, but you only get one CPU and no superdrive, though it is 300 dollar cheaper, and looks pretty cool . (the top end alienware)

[daveL]

Originally posted by DrGonzo
I do when i BUILD my own computer. Stop being an Apple elitest. Granted, there really hasn't been anything groundbreaking in pcs for awhlie, but there's no reason to say that.
Right, BUILD my own computer. Buy a MB, screw it into a case, attach DC power, insert PCI cards and close case. Man, you're a *real* hard core power user. Gee, you might even add memory to the MB and install a couple drives. Now, don't get that crazy master/secondary drive cable thing wrong. I bet you can even assemble your childs bicycle at Christmas time. I'm impressed. And then what: You install Windows on it! Well, whatever floats your boat, as they say. I think you should go out, right now, and buy, I mean BUILD, one.

[DrGonzo]

They way i see it is that most users of a powerbook HAVE a desktop, so the laptop is supplemental. Now i know some of you will say "oh i only have a laptop" and that's fine, but it seems in the past this is how it's been. However, now that the hardware is here to remove the desktop entirely why shouldn't apple users have the same luxury? I think Apple needs to get a g5 in a laptop *NOW* to give an option to people who want it. If it takes a a case thats almost 2" thick and weighs damn near 10lbs I say do it (i.e. alienware).

That being said, Alienware's (awesome) laptops are not aiming for that crowd - they are aiming for the gamer, pure and simple.

I definately agree that they're AIMED for the gaming market, but if you look at the specs they're very "awesome". Just because it has a screaming laptop video card doesn't mean this laptop is only good for gaming. It has a high resolution with what i will assume is a nice screen (good for video editing, photoshop, etc...) Has plenty of ports. It's FAST, 3.06ghz in a laptop with up to a gig of ram giving you a decent amount of head room, and an unheard of 7200rpm hard drive, which is definately good for more than just video. So if you want a laptop that kicks serious ass regardless of what OS you run (you DO have an option to run more than just windows). Of course the biggest downsides to this laptop is the hefty weight and what I will assume is a low battery life though with an extra battery i think it would have enough juice to sit you through most things before you make it around a socket. I don't think the g5 is extremly exciting as I won't be buying one and while the technology impresses me greatly, it's just the next progression in desktops. I think the most impressive thing is yet to come in the form of a powerbook with a g5 or something that puts that alienware lapweight, errrr i mean laptop, in it's place.

[yanges]

my local Apple Store [ Northridge, CA ] just told me that it won't have demo G5 units till end of August?

i just hope the guy isn't right.....

why wouldn't Apple's own stores have them if they were shipping?

you would think it would help them sell even more G5's....

[firedrake]

Yanges,

I'm in Reseda -- I'd love to -see- a G5, but I've gone ahead and ordered it through educational channels, based on spec. I go up to the Apple Store at Northridge at least once a week, pestering them.

[Jesus on OSX]

Originally posted by yoshi1013 I doubt PC Users out there get this excited about their computers.

Totally untrue. Have you checked DellRumors.com or SpyDell.com recently?



no, wait a minute...

[mikeh123]

Well whether some big customers or not have them the rest of us won't for some time yet.
In the UK any build to orders won't be seen till LAST week in September. Standard configurations will be shipped first. I cannot see any dealer or direct apple store order being shipped in August full stop. Early September at the best.

You will not see them in August. That is what apple have told me through our dealership channels

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by Fukui
Nice, but you only get one CPU and no superdrive, though it is 300 dollar cheaper, and looks pretty cool . (the top end alienware)

A superdrive costs maybe $150 in the PC world. Personally I think that Alienware is pretty overpriced. I think I could easily build a PC just as fast as that $2600 model for about $1500 including OS. Oh, and I could have it in a week, as opposed to 2 months. :(

Of course, the downside is that it runs windows...

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by jaedreth
We should have a choice.

Indeed. And what provides that choice? Competition, that wonderful feature of a capitalist economy.

So now, either we wait for a fancy box until its value is halved, or we get nothing. Wouldn't it be nice if those who wanted fancy boxes could wait for them, and those of us who don't care about boxes could get the motherboards immediately and slap them in a $30 ATX case (with, incidentally, 4 optical bays and 5 HD bays)? Fine, it'll be louder. Those who care can choose to wait for the fancy aluminum models. Or those who are mechanically inclined can cut the front and back of their ATX case and stick on a couple 4" fans for $5 each and run them at half speed.

<sigh> We can dream.

[tychay]

Originally posted by fluffy
I doubt a standard ATX case could sufficiently cool a G5 though, at least not without adding a huge mess of noisy fans. Most of the G5's case engineering went into the massive cooling requirements...

Myth. Look up the power requirements of a 970 (G5) (42watts @ 1.8Ghz*) and double it. It still falls under a single P4 (110watts @ 3.2Ghz**).

The difference is that if Apple came up with a design like you see typically in the PC world, everyone would be claiming that they released another "windtunnel."

The "massive cooling requirements" is an illusion Apple marketting used to justify overdesigning the airflow in case and to deflect users from wondering why they can't have an underclocked version in a notebook (or two drive bays back in their case a la "mirror doors").

* I couldn't find any numbers for 2Ghz G5 yet. I heard it's around 48 watts. There is an EETimes article (http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20030623S0092) that claims it's 97 watts but obviously these people are morons and doubled it.

** This is extrapolated from Intel's "thermal design rating" which is typically 30 watts lower than the max. Note that there are Intel machines with 2x3 Ghz P4 (Xeon) in them in ATX cases (check Dell and be prepared to break out the $).

[omnivector]

Originally posted by jaedreth
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by yoshi1013
I doubt PC Users out there get this excited about their computers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.alienware.com/gaming_main_desktop.aspx

http://www.alienware.com/system_pages/area-51m.aspx

Apple has nowhere *NEAR* the price/feature ratio these guys have.

Nor do they have anywhere near the cosmetic options.

A friend of mine and myself got very excited looking over their website, and he's gonna buy one. I'm still undecided. I'll give Apple a chance, but I seriously doubt they will come out with systems *this* sweet.

Jaedreth

Uh, a little misinformed are we?
check out the spec scores (http://www.apple.com/g5processor/)

and since most people think specs mean nothing, watch the WWDC keynote to see the g5 kicking the crap out of a DUAL xeon. those alien ware computers are only a single chip, and they still cost in the ~$2500 dollar range. If you watch the keynote, you'll also hear steve saying the cost of a dual xeon from a company like dell, that they used, was in the price range of greater than $4000. So twice the performance, and $1000 less. yeah that alien ware computer has it beat!!1!!!!!1

Edited for typos :(

[fluffy]

(multiple corrections regarding the heat output of the G5)


Thanks. I keep forgetting that Apple marketing works in strange ways.

[the future]

Anyone who likes the design of Apple computers *and* that of Alienware computers is seriously schizophrenic.

[ryan]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
What I really like about the Mac Bidouille article



Just one more reason to wait for Rev. B aside from getting Panther pre-installed....:D

D
Yeah, but why just wait for Rev. B? Why not wait for Rev. C? Surely it will be be faster and cheaper than C. Or wait, I know, wait for Rev. D, they'll be even faster than C! No, forget that, the G5 is old news, what you should really wait for is the G6, now that will be sweet.

These are computers, you buy one, and they're no longer state of the art as soon as you take them out of the box. Accept it. If you're always waiting for the next price cut/speed increase/feature addition you'll never get a new system and will forever be using your Mac Plus.

[jaedreth]

Oh really?

So you're saying that someone who just happens to like the designs of these two spearate computer companies suffers from a total mental departure from reality?

If you're thinking a split mind, that's MPD, not Schizophrenia.

When someone is "not in touch with reality", and believes in things like unicorns and dragons and faeries, hears voices in their head, who believes somebody is out to get them (but doesn't have concrete proof), etc. That's usually diagnosed medically as Schizophrenia. (Being an ecclectic wiccan, I have serious objections to medical professions using aspects of my religion to diagnose mental disorders...) But yes, Schizophrenia is the technical term when someone is generally considered just insane.

So it is insanity to enjoy the esthetically pleasing designs of two different companies? They are both cool, and sleek. However, Alienware has better stuff at lower cost. Of course it's 2-3 times thicker than the Ti/Al-Book.

I'm not a Mac Bigot. I am also not a PC Basher. Just as I get fed up with the "Apple makes it, thus it's the best", I am equally fed up with "Apple doesn't make it, it's automatically *****".

The Alienware makes some *nice* stuff. Apple's too entrenched in it's whole 1 inch thick motif to realize they could pack a lot more power at less cost (by using less minaturized and thus less expensive parts), and actually be competitive.

Problem is: Apple doesn't see itself as competing with the Windows market, and thus *chooses* not to be competitive.

Will I buy an Alienware product? Maybe after I get me a new Mac. Maybe not at all. For me it's not as much about loyalty as it is this:

I am an *expert* when it comes to repairing Macs.
I am a *novice* when it comes to repairing PCs.

I don't want to pay for service.

Jaedreth

[yanges]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Wouldn't it be nice if those who wanted fancy boxes could wait for them, and those of us who don't care about boxes could get the motherboards immediately and slap them in a $30 ATX case (with, incidentally, 4 optical bays and 5 HD bays)? Fine, it'll be louder. Those who care can choose to wait for the fancy aluminum models.

<sigh> We can dream.

what i want to know is what is the need for 4 optical bays?? kinda overdone if you ask me.....

[macmax]

Originally posted by mactastic
I particularly liked the part where he publicly stated that we will be seeing 3Ghz chips within a year! Holy floating point operations Batman!

hahahhaahahhaha, i liked this thread.

i hope we really move fast, go Apple!!!!

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by omnivector
Uh, a little misinformed are we?
check out the spec scores (http://www.apple.com/g5processor/)

There's no call to be needlessy insulting. Of course we have all seen the G5 spec scores and the marketing comparisons given in the keynote.

Many of us are taking all of that with a grain of salt (neither saying "THEY CHEATED" nor "G5 RULES YOU JEALOUS WINLOSERS"). I think user tests and comparisons on a wide variety of apps will be the real test of the G5. These can only happen once the G5s start shipping.

[redcalx]

Let's clear a few things up.

First off, the alienware designs are ugly. I'd be embarassed to keep something like that in my house. I don't live in a cartoony looking house. I like modernism and apple hits the nail on the head with it's sleek modern designs. Alienware is a t-shirt my friend. It's cheesy pieces of plastic.

Secondly, I have a good friend who suffers from Schizophrenia and he had a good laugh at your "believes in dragons, faries and unicorns comment". Also, having schizophrenia does not make one insane, it just makes things harder. Stick to what you know friend, because so far you arent doing so well.

And lastly, I looked over those sysetms, they're far from "better" as you put it. I don't really know what else to say. They might preform slightly better at gaming because they're built specifically for that, but personally I could care less about gaming on my PC. I'll play my X-box and/or Gamecube if I want to play games. As far as image editing, or video editing goes, I hope they packed a lot of air in those alienware cases because otherwise, it's doomed to sink.

Good day.

Originally posted by jaedreth
Oh really?

So you're saying that someone who just happens to like the designs of these two spearate computer companies suffers from a total mental departure from reality?

If you're thinking a split mind, that's MPD, not Schizophrenia.

When someone is "not in touch with reality", and believes in things like unicorns and dragons and faeries, hears voices in their head, who believes somebody is out to get them (but doesn't have concrete proof), etc. That's usually diagnosed medically as Schizophrenia. (Being an ecclectic wiccan, I have serious objections to medical professions using aspects of my religion to diagnose mental disorders...) But yes, Schizophrenia is the technical term when someone is generally considered just insane.

So it is insanity to enjoy the esthetically pleasing designs of two different companies? They are both cool, and sleek. However, Alienware has better stuff at lower cost. Of course it's 2-3 times thicker than the Ti/Al-Book.

I'm not a Mac Bigot. I am also not a PC Basher. Just as I get fed up with the "Apple makes it, thus it's the best", I am equally fed up with "Apple doesn't make it, it's automatically *****".

The Alienware makes some *nice* stuff. Apple's too entrenched in it's whole 1 inch thick motif to realize they could pack a lot more power at less cost (by using less minaturized and thus less expensive parts), and actually be competitive.

Problem is: Apple doesn't see itself as competing with the Windows market, and thus *chooses* not to be competitive.

Will I buy an Alienware product? Maybe after I get me a new Mac. Maybe not at all. For me it's not as much about loyalty as it is this:

I am an *expert* when it comes to repairing Macs.
I am a *novice* when it comes to repairing PCs.

I don't want to pay for service.

Jaedreth

[jaedreth]

I'm not saying my descriptions fit all schizophrenics, I said that these are examples of *some* of the things that might be characterized as schizophrenia.

And I do want a gaming system.

And I find some of the colored iBooks far more cartoonish, like Key Lime.

I'd most likely get a black tower, and a conspiracy blue notebook. After I had my macs of course.

Personal preference.

Geez, twist my words to mean something else why don't you?

Just because mackeral are fish, and fish live under water doesn't mean everything that lives underwater is a mackeral.

Jaedreth

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by ryan
Yeah, but why just wait for Rev. B? Why not wait for Rev. C? Surely it will be be faster and cheaper than C. Or wait, I know, wait for Rev. D, they'll be even faster than C! No, forget that, the G5 is old news, what you should really wait for is the G6, now that will be sweet.

Nice try at a strawman. :rolleyes: That is not what we are saying. There are times when a computer is a good deal, and there are other times then it is not--independent of absolute time. A delay can cause a computer that was a good deal to be less of a good deal. In fact this is always the case with a delay on computer stuff, and it is worse the longer the delay is.

IMO the G5 was a good deal in June. In October, it is not as good a deal, enough that I probably won't buy one. I am hoping that the rev B's are released shortly and with less delay (due to lack of tooling or manufactuing problems, for example).

Originally posted by ryan
These are computers, you buy one, and they're no longer state of the art as soon as you take them out of the box. Accept it. If you're always waiting for the next price cut/speed increase/feature addition you'll never get a new system and will forever be using your Mac Plus.

Exactly. They are valued less as soon as they are opened. And even further devalued if you wait 4 months before opening the box! That is in effect what is happening here with the G5.

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by yanges
what i want to know is what is the need for 4 optical bays?? kinda overdone if you ask me.....

You can use an optical bays for extra HD's, if you get a $5 adapter. If you don't need them, of course you don't have to use them, or you can get a cheaper mini-ATX case for even less than $30. Again, the results of choice and competition.

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by redcalx
I'll play my X-box and/or Gamecube if I want to play games.

That may be OK for you, but some of us want a better gaming machine than a console box. Think variety, and hi-res.

[Fukui]

Originally posted by jaedreth
However, Alienware has better stuff at lower cost. Of course it's 2-3 times thicker than the Ti/Al-Book.

I'm not a Mac Bigot. I am also not a PC Basher. Just as I get fed up with the "Apple makes it, thus it's the best", I am equally fed up with "Apple doesn't make it, it's automatically *****".

The Alienware makes some *nice* stuff. Apple's too entrenched in it's whole 1 inch thick motif to realize they could pack a lot more power at less cost (by using less minaturized and thus less expensive parts), and actually be competitive.

Problem is: Apple doesn't see itself as competing with the Windows market, and thus *chooses* not to be competitive.

Well, on desktops, they're not too badly priced at all. Drop the Superdrive and the Twin 2GHZ G4 is only 2799, compared to the Alienware @ 2643 for only once CPU. If you believe that the 2GHZ G5 is roughly equal to the P4 @ 3GHZ (yet to be absolutely proven) then for only 150 more dollars on the Apple you can get much better performance, not to mention the Serial ATA controller, Toslink In/Out, PCI-X, and dual Interleaved RAM...so on the desktop level, at least on the top end, apple is finally competitive.

On the laptop front, the Alienware P4 CPU is wayyyy faster than the G4, but you'll notice that the 15 G4 also has an ATI Radeon 9000, so for a faster cpu and more graphics memory your still 1000 dollars more expensive then the 15 Ti (entry level 15 inch )with pretty close specs... still the alienware top-end is better...I think the problem is, apple doesn't have any 2.0 GHZ G5s of P4s to stick in a laptop, though that would be nice!

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by Fukui
then for only 150 more dollars on the Apple you can get much better performance

Yet to be proven. We can hope, but let us see them shipping and really tested before coming to such a conclusion.

Originally posted by Fukui
not to mention the Serial ATA controller

Most PC mobos these days have SATA built in, I think. Certainly a $125 mobo will have SATA. In any case, it doesn't matter...SATA is no faster than PATA (unless you have a couple REALLY fast HDs on RAID, but in that case you should be doing FC or scsi).

Originally posted by Fukui
Toslink In/Out

The Alienware comes with the Soundblaster Audigy 2, which has not only Toslink input and output, but also coax digital, and multichannel 6.1 analog output for those who don't have an external dolby receiver in the home theatre system. The audigy is about $75.

The point is, we will seldom come out ahead in a hardware price/features comparison with PCs. Why? Choice and competition.

Originally posted by Fukui
PCI-X

This is true. OTOH, can anyone point me to any PCI-X cards out there? By the time there are any such cards, it will become standard on PCs as well.

Originally posted by Fukui
and dual Interleaved RAM...

This has been standard on many el cheapo PCs for quite some time. Certainly that Alienware box includes this. Interleaving is nothing new, some very old Macs had it as well.

Originally posted by Fukui
so on the desktop level, at least on the top end, apple is finally competitive.

Mmm...well, we'll see. When the machines ship, we'll see how fast they really are, and then we will be able to tell if they are worth the prices. They seemed like a good deal in June, but now I am not so sure.

Originally posted by Fukui
On the laptop front, the Alienware P4 CPU is wayyyy faster than the G4, but you'll notice that the 15 G4 also has an ATI Radeon 9000, so for a faster cpu and more graphics memory your still 1000 dollars more expensive then the 15 Ti

Yeah, I agree--that Alien laptop doesn't look too great. ATI 9000 for $3k? Bleah. Then again, I'd never be playing serious games on a laptop anyway. :)

[ryan]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Nice try at a strawman. :rolleyes: That is not what we are saying.
<snip>
Strawman?

Since you've decided to speak for all the people waiting for rev b. I will too. A vast majority of the "I'm going to wait" people were saying they were so prior to the offical G5 announcement.

But, it's all good since I get to laugh at the people are going to have a fast system and be able to get all this work done tomorrow, while the people that buy a system when they need one get their work done today.

[Fukui]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Yet to be proven. We can hope, but let us see them shipping and really tested before coming to such a conclusion.
............
Mmm...well, we'll see. When the machines ship, we'll see how fast they really are, and then we will be able to tell if they are worth the prices. They seemed like a good deal in June, but now I am not so sure.

Hopefully they will.:)

[tychay]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Most PC mobos these days have SATA built in, I think. Certainly a $125 mobo will have SATA. In any case, it doesn't matter...SATA is no faster than PATA (unless you have a couple REALLY fast HDs on RAID, but in that case you should be doing FC or scsi).

True. False. False.

Yes, it is true you can get PC mobos with SATA, my latest Shuttle has it, for instance. In fact the AlienWare mentioned also supports SATA. (I'd dispute the "most" comment as only 2003 designed chipsets have support of SATA, the rest require a PCI card.)

Though there is no inherent reason PATA drives shouldn't be as fast as SATA, you can get 10,000 RPM SATA drives (from Western Digital (http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/WD360GD.asp) with others to soon follow) while I suspect that PATA will stay fixed at 7200RPM. So SATA drives are faster than PATA.

Also, SATA is inherently faster without a RAID configuration. The peak is 150MB/s with up to 600MB/s in the future. Of course, this only affects a RAM buffer hit (since drives are too slow) and only applies to on-board SATA (due to PCI bus limitations of 100MB/s), but it's there.

It is faster without the need of separate controls (a two hard drive situation). SATA is a point-to-point interface. If you plug two IDE drives as a master-slave in a software RAID 0 (or otherwise), they share the same bandwidth and controller, whereas the SATA configuration will truly have double the bandwidth with no contention.

This doesn't even mention the other advantages in longer cable length, less interference, lower voltage, smaller cable width (really important in PCs where mobos are designed without any consideration of case architecture thus they interfere with cooling, including the laughable cooling innovations in the Alienware), hotpluggability, plug-n-play (no need for silly jumpers), and backward compatibility (via adapters). Think of its future use in laptops... Yummy!

In any case, this is off-topic. It's safe to say that there should be no comparison between the Alienware Area-51 and the G5--PCI-X would require a new motherboard, interleaved RAM as being is virtually non-existent outside of servers (and then, only to get around the fact that PIII's don't support DDR, there is no need to have interleaved RAM on a P4 because there are no FSB's faster than 800Mhz and you have a 4GB ceiling--the most popular chipsets have a 2GB ceiling), skipping over the 1Ghz point-to-point bus, a dual processor to a single cpu, ignoring the 8 RAM bays (yes, it'd be nice if it took more than 8GB, but if that is a need you'll have to wait for a later model... just like when the G4/Yikes came out), the lesser noise level, the case design and build quality, bluetooth/802-11 support, and finally, the G5 doesn't play Windows video games at an acceptable speed, which is a deal-killer for anyone interested in Alienware. (Okay they do make a "DV" model which is even more of a joke: 1CPU w/ 533Mhz FSB, mildly interesting gimmicky RT card which would still costs $700 more than a similarly configured G5.)

Alienware is an excellent (as you point out overpriced) game system with a low-end server mobo sold as a entertainment machine, the Mac is a computational/multimedia workstation designed to deal with the last set of complaints with their previous model (low Mhz, RAM bandwidth, lack of digital audio, and noise level)--two different solutions. The only similarity seems to be that they both have a large following among people with money burning a hole in their pockets. Unlike Alienware owners, many future G5 owners can justify the ROI. (I'll except those who make your money in videogames, of course.)

[daveL]

Good post!

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by tychay
Though there is no inherent reason PATA drives shouldn't be as fast as SATA, you can get 10,000 RPM SATA drives (from Western Digital (http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/WD360GD.asp) with others to soon follow) while I suspect that PATA will stay fixed at 7200RPM. So SATA drives are faster than PATA.

Also, SATA is inherently faster without a RAID configuration. The peak is 150MB/s with up to 600MB/s in the future. Of course, this only affects a RAM buffer hit (since drives are too slow) and only applies to on-board SATA (due to PCI bus limitations of 100MB/s), but it's there.

Ahh, yes; I forgot about these points--especially the presense of the RAM buffer and its ability to use the faster interface. Thanks for the correction(s).

In any case, though, the initial point remains that SATA is not a "mac innovation", and certainly not "mac only" as a few folks seem to be implying.

I agree with the rest of your points re cables etc. It should be mentioned though, that round PATA cables can be had. These are quite cheap, and although they aren't quite as thin as SATA cables, they are good enough from the perspective of cleanliness and cooling. If someone doesn't care too much about HD performance and want to save a few bucks, PATA is a good solution.

Originally posted by tychay
there is no need to have interleaved RAM on a P4 because there are no FSB's faster than 800Mhz

There are no memory buses on the Mac side either that are faster than 800 MHz "effective". Perhaps I am missing something here--I was under the impression that both G5 and the latest PC chipsets used dual-bank PC3200 DDR (reading from both banks simultaneously at 400 MHz for an "effective bandwidth" of 800 MHz). Is interleaving something different? Does either PC or Mac use interleaving?

Originally posted by tychay
and you have a 4GB ceiling--the most popular chipsets have a 2GB ceiling), skipping over the 1Ghz point-to-point bus, a dual processor to a single cpu, ignoring the 8 RAM bays (yes, it'd be nice if it took more than 8GB, but if that is a need you'll have to wait for a later model... just like when the G4/Yikes came out), the lesser noise level, the case design and build quality

All agreed. As to the 1GHz bus, we will see how much it impacts app performance. If it does then good; if not, it's just a number.

Originally posted by tychay
bluetooth/802-11 support

This kind of stuff (and USB2, and Firewire, and audio toslinks, etc etc) you can get for cheap on the PC. I don't consider any of this periphery stuff to be anything special. For instance, you can get a 4 port FW card with Ulead software for $18. Granted the SW is probably not great and you still have to run windows, but these are separate issues. I have come across one person who <gasp> prefers some of the windows DV stuff, yet still wants to get a Mac (meaning he isn't an anti-mac zealot).

Originally posted by tychay
(I'll except those who make your money in videogames, of course.)

Hey, someone's gotta drive this molasses economy out of the sewer. :D

[tychay]

Originally posted by soggywulf
In any case, though, the initial point remains that SATA is not a "mac innovation", and certainly not "mac only" as a few folks seem to be implying.

In the world's of the immortal Mr. T, ``I pity the fools!'' :)

Re: Round cables. I've seen them and they are made much like the SFF PC (aka Shuttles) IDE cables, they cut open the cables and then bind them together in a round circle instead of allowing them to lay flat like a ribbon. I always wondered if they aren't prone to interference issues.

There are no memory buses on the Mac side either that are faster than 800 MHz "effective". Perhaps I am missing something here--I was under the impression that both G5 and the latest PC chipsets used dual-bank PC3200 DDR (reading from both banks simultaneously at 400 MHz for an "effective bandwidth" of 800 MHz). Is interleaving something different? Does either PC or Mac use interleaving?

Whoa, on reading my own post, I realized that I did more to confuse the issue then help it with this snippet. Your argument is closer to the truth than my post in this section. For clarity:

True. There are no memory buses on the Mac faster than 800Mhz "effective" (see below).

Mostly True. Both G5's and (the latest) PC chipsets (notably the nVidia nForce and Intel "Springdale") use dual-bank PC3200 DDR RAM @ 400Mhz. (The false part is to assume all PCs are at 400Mhz--a lot of vendors will try to sell you cheaper PC2700 or worse because people confuse the 800FSB with implying that their RAM must be running at 400! Not true at all, In fact the MHz of a PC3200 DDR RAM is 200Mhz!).

Neither false nor true. Interleaving is the use of matched pairs of RAM to double the effective bandwidth. Dual-channel is the same as interleaving except it uses two memory controllers instead of parallel access (so I believe you aren't restricted to matched pairs which leaves those TWIN-X Corsair RAM (which I'm quite fond of*) as meaningless marketing nonsense beyond the fact that they were tested on the same mobo at the same time). Neither the Mac nor the PC use interleaving, or both of them use it depending on whether or not you have a strict definition of the word "interleaving".

So: dual-channel PC3200 DDR RAM: 200Mhz * 2 (because DDR sends data on rise and fall of every clock) * 8 (because each module has 8 bytes of data=64 bits) * 2 (because you place the RAM down in pairs, Apple marketing calls this 128 bits... hehe, ya gotta love it!) = 6.4GB as you mentioned.

I'll note that Apple forces you to buy high quality PC3200 DDR RAM in pairs in order to keep users from shooting themselves in the foot, as happens quite often in the PC world. I'll also note that dual-channel PC3200 DDR is a very new phenomenon in the PC world, so it isn't exactly "old hat"--in fact I see a lot of people with spanking new PCs with nForce or Springdale chipsets buying single 512MB PC2700 DIMMs instead of 2x256MB.

The problem was, I was confusing this with HyperTransport (http://www.hypertransport.org/) which is altogether uncommon in the PC world. (Note to Mac zealots, this is not an Apple-only thing and in fact, AMD is the driving force behind it. Note to PC zealots, Apple is a founding member of the HT consortium.) Since HT is a point-to-point DDR protocol, it gives the CPUs a 12.8GB bandwidth to operate (they don't contend for resources). Thus while one CPU is doing a direct memory access at full speed, the other CPU is free to access the 1GB/s PCI-X, or the hard drive, or the graphics card. The last is probably going to be pretty important given that most people are running OSX with Quartz Extreme on these boxen.

This is not a issue with the really-overpriced, high-end 3.2Ghz P4 since it has only 1 CPU. But when we compare it to the 2x3.06Ghz P4 Xeon systems that Dell sells, the lack of hypertransport (and the relatively-slow FSB), make for a big deal. For instance, if you look at the Photoshop shootout in the WWDC, you will notice the dual-P4 Xeon system seems to stop for an unusually long time. Where? right before loading a huge graphic of a whale. That smells like a bandwidth issue to me.

(My other confusion was unreleated. ChipKill (parallel ECC by spreading access across multiple DIMM) and multi bank (to get around addressing limits in x86 explained my reference to "only found in high end P3 servers" line.)

The reason I mentioned Bluetooth and 802.11g is because of the very well thought-out antenna placement--something you don't find at all on the PC. Bluetooth driver support in Windows (heck even 802.11 driver support) is another thing, I wanted to imply.

I have come across one person who <gasp> prefers some of the windows DV stuff, yet still wants to get a Mac (meaning he isn't an anti-mac zealot).

DV? After biting the bullet and purchasing FCP and DVDSP, I bet he becomes an anti-windows zealot. ;)

I think that zealotry cuts both ways. Basically Apple is in a bind because they want to use PC standard parts so that the "competition" you mention drives down prices and allows them to pass that value down to their users and allow their computers to be competitive (and they are competitive), but then they have to distinguish their computers from the PC world in the hardware. Recently they've done that quite creatively by writing software to use the same hardware more effectively because they can demand corresponding high-quality hardware. A recent example of this is Quartz Extreme and large graphics cards, for instance. In the PC world, expensive graphics cards are essential for the 50% of computing that involves video games, and unused the rest of the time.

Hey, someone's gotta drive this molasses economy out of the sewer.

I agree totally. Games are serious business (they represent about 1/2 of all PC software sales by revenue). But one doesn't buy a $3000 dual process PowerMac G5 for videogames... that's what Alienware's stuff is for. Which was the general point, I guess.

*They also come with heat spreaders (which I like because they look cool). I've seen a lot of PC fanatics claim that they actually do something when you overclock. So you see, zealotry isn't limited to the Mac world.

[yanges]

anyone have an early delivery date?

was wondering when the first G5's were due to arrive.....:D

[mactarheel]

http://www.forbes.com/2003/08/09/cx...yahoo&referrer=

At Forbes.com for a look at the week ahead: August 11-15 regarding the G5...the last line:

"An Apple spokeswoman says the company remains on target to ship all orders for G5 machines this month."

Keep your fingers crossed...Apple withdrew the money from my checking account on 8.5.03 after my order on 8.1.03 and I received a letter about it from Apple. They had originally told me they would put a hold on it but it is definitely withdrawn...per Apple Computer.

Estimated delivery date is 10.14.03 however.

[3G4N]

Just found this G5 tidbit in an interview of a Lightwave artist

http://www.newtek-europe.com/uk/community/lightwave/muharraqi/2.html

"What spec machine(s) are you using it on at the moment?

Mac G4 OSX, 2.5GB Ram, 2 GHz Dual Processor, G-force 4, 100 GB IDE/70 GB SCSI hard drives."

...in Baharain, no less.

[yanges]

Originally posted by 3G4N
Just found this G5 tidbit in an interview of a Lightwave artist

http://www.newtek-europe.com/uk/community/lightwave/muharraqi/2.html

"What spec machine(s) are you using it on at the moment?

Mac G4 OSX, 2.5GB Ram, 2 GHz Dual Processor, G-force 4, 100 GB IDE/70 GB SCSI hard drives."

...in Baharain, no less.

it says G4....

and there are no such possible configurations on the G5.....

at least, not that i have seen.....

[PC Clone]

Originally posted by yoshi1013
I doubt PC Users out there get this excited about their computers.
Yeah, there's nothing in the PC world that can compare to going out and overpaying for a computer that was premade by someone else!
.
.
.
.
.
:rolleyes:

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by tychay
Re: Round cables. I've seen them and they are made much like the SFF PC (aka Shuttles) IDE cables, they cut open the cables and then bind them together in a round circle instead of allowing them to lay flat like a ribbon. I always wondered if they aren't prone to interference issues.

Hmm...mine is different. It looks like a bundle of unshielded twisted pairs, with a shield around the whole bundle. Kind of like cat5, except for the outer shield. Should be pretty good on interference issues, I think.

Originally posted by tychay
I'll also note that dual-channel PC3200 DDR is a very new phenomenon in the PC world, so it isn't exactly "old hat"--in fact I see a lot of people with spanking new PCs with nForce or Springdale chipsets buying single 512MB PC2700 DIMMs instead of 2x256MB.

Thx for the clarifications. Yeah, fairly recent. It was only maybe 6 months ago that the 875 chipset came out, I think? Still, it is also true that getting a motherboard that supports "interleaved" DDR 400 is no great challenge or expense.

Originally posted by tychay
(Note to Mac zealots, this is not an Apple-only thing and in fact, AMD is the driving force behind it. Note to PC zealots, Apple is a founding member of the HT consortium.)

LOL.

Originally posted by tychay
Recently they've done that quite creatively by writing software to use the same hardware more effectively because they can demand corresponding high-quality hardware. A recent example of this is Quartz Extreme and large graphics cards, for instance. In the PC world, expensive graphics cards are essential for the 50% of computing that involves video games, and unused the rest of the time.

Yes, I agree--Apple has done a very good job of adding value through software. QE is a great example of that. Software is the reason to stick to the Mac.

I just hope, for the platform's sake, that they can keep up with hardware price/performance as well. Including getting products to customers in a timely manner, getting back OT. :)

[yanges]

check out this article:

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/08/15/citymac/

this Mac store is going to have G5's on August 20!! [ or so they say ]

why does my Apple store keep telling me end of month?

i just want to see and touch one......:cool:

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by Chealion
I guess that disproves most ideas about the G5s being delayed...

I don't really think it disproves anything, because I don't really think it PROVES anything.

How can we be sure? Like Arn said, where are the benchmarks?

[MacPhyle]

They're just going to have a demonstration, which means they'll have a pre-production machine there to show off. That same machine is probably getting carted around to a bunch of Apple Stores and distributors.

>http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/08/15/citymac/

>this Mac store is going to have G5's on August 20!! [ or so they say ]


Edit: I do see what you mean, though --- you just want to get your hands on one... I just today ordered mine (whee!) and I want to do more than just feel ;) I want to feel it sitting on my desk ;)