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MacRumors
Aug 22, 2007, 09:03 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The Financial Times claims that deals have been completed (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/17aa89d0-500b-11dc-a6b0-0000779fd2ac.html) between Apple and T-Mobile of Germany, Orange of France, and O2 in the UK. A formal announcement is expected by the site at the IFA trade fair (http://www.ifa-berlin.de/) in Berlin at the end of August (Aug 31 - Sep 5, 2007).

Rumors of the iPhone's pending European arrival have been swirling for months, with early finds that the iPhone's software already includes carrier images (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/04/iphone-vodaphone-t-mobile-carriers-and-ringtones/) for T-Mobile and Vodafone. Vodafone has since reportedly bowed out (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/06/apples-demands-of-vodafone/), leaving O2 as Apple's UK partner (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/04/apple-to-partner-with-o2-for-iphone-uk-orange-in-france/). MacScoop recently stated that a deal was close between Orange of France and Apple.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/22/uk-france-germany-iphone-soon/)



xUKHCx
Aug 22, 2007, 09:05 AM
Exciting, glad i'm an 02 select customer hopefully they'll sort me out with an iPhone as i sort them out with lots of money. This should bring in a new era of competitive pricing plans regarding data as 02 is currently very poor in this regard.

iShak
Aug 22, 2007, 09:11 AM
iphone hitting UK mobile phone market soon?

oh boy! that would be fun *grin* ..

psycho bob
Aug 22, 2007, 09:11 AM
I'm hugely disappointed about Apple going with O2 in the UK. They are expensive and there customer service outside of the business arena has always left me wanting more. They bet get more competitive with data plans because right now they are the worst by a long shot. The lack of an Edge network is all questionable.

I really don't see why Apple didn't stick with T-Mobile in the UK as well as most of the other big countries in Europe. For me this means no iPhone, I refuse flatly to go back to O2. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to just import a T-Mobile Phone and put in my simcard and use it in the UK. There is no roaming issue between T-Mobile countries so the sims can't be specific.

xUKHCx
Aug 22, 2007, 09:14 AM
Snip

While i agree 02 data plans are terrible, their customer service (like all o f the phone copmpanies) is poor. But T-Mobile seriously they have such poor coverage in comparision, and i'm not just talking about my locale, I've tested it all over, Liverpool, Watford, Birmingham, Sheffield, Nottingham, Bath, London.

gkarris
Aug 22, 2007, 09:19 AM
I really don't see why Apple didn't stick with T-Mobile in the UK as well as most of the other big countries in Europe. For me this means no iPhone, I refuse flatly to go back to O2. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to just import a T-Mobile Phone and put in my simcard and use it in the UK. There is no roaming issue between T-Mobile countries so the sims can't be specific.

Yea, we're hoping for that here in the US with getting a European T-Mobile iPhone, but my feeling is:

US iTunes Account + US T-Mobile SIM + German T-Mobile iPhone = iTunes Alert, "Sorry, your iPhone cannot be activated.."

puckhead193
Aug 22, 2007, 09:19 AM
any updates to the phones for 3g for you europeans? Would you consider this as downgrade if their is no 3g?

TheChillPill
Aug 22, 2007, 09:20 AM
I can add a few bits in to this;

- o2 are looking at an 'unlimited data' tariff at the moment with a target price of £20 per month. This is in direct response to T-Mobiles £1 a day data tariff.

- They are also looking to bring forward plans to introduce age validation on PAYG tariffs for web browsing. At the moment you are restricted to o2 approved wap sites for browsing with PAYG in an effort to protect minors. Age verification would essentially mean visiting a store with some ID which will allow the restriction to be removed from your account. The early introduction of this scheme could possibly point to a PAYG iPhone.

- It definitely won't be 3G (o2 have spent the last 2 months testing it on gprs, so unless Apple have kept 3G secret, it's not happening).

- o2 have just reduced the price of the N95 to free on contract, which wasn't planned to happen until October. This suggests a possible iPhone launch in October (my speculation).

Malcster
Aug 22, 2007, 09:23 AM
I can add a few bits in to this;

- It definitely won't be 3G (o2 have spent the last 2 months testing it on gprs, so unless Apple have kept 3G secret, it's not happening).


GPRS?! im not going back 5 years in phone technology thanks, ill pass.

The Grood
Aug 22, 2007, 09:27 AM
I'm hugely disappointed about Apple going with O2 in the UK. They are expensive and there customer service outside of the business arena has always left me wanting more. They bet get more competitive with data plans because right now they are the worst by a long shot. The lack of an Edge network is all questionable.

I really don't see why Apple didn't stick with T-Mobile in the UK as well as most of the other big countries in Europe. For me this means no iPhone, I refuse flatly to go back to O2. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to just import a T-Mobile Phone and put in my simcard and use it in the UK. There is no roaming issue between T-Mobile countries so the sims can't be specific.

They had to pick someone... and all the networks have unhappy customers.
I'm with T Mobile and it has the worst reception of any phone I've owned in the past 10 years. I used to be with Orange, and they really are awful - especially the customer service.

I can't imagine O2 being any worse on either count.

al3000
Aug 22, 2007, 09:27 AM
How fast is GPRS?

EDIT: Just realised i have gprs on my nokia n70 at the moment... its so slow (even on mob ile modified sites) - i'm gutted about this!

lexus
Aug 22, 2007, 09:28 AM
This does not make sense, O2 are active in Germany and the UK as are Tmobile why would they not use the same people?

4np
Aug 22, 2007, 09:30 AM
Weird; T-Mobile and Orange also operate on the Dutch market. I wonder what will happen... I am still going to Berlin later this year so maybe I can bring back an iPhone ;)

TheChillPill
Aug 22, 2007, 09:30 AM
How fast is GPRS?

171kbs is the theoretical max speed

dalvin200
Aug 22, 2007, 09:33 AM
Would you consider this as downgrade if their is no 3g?

it's a huge leap backwards..

I've been using 3G for the past 3 years.. and now with my unlimited data plan i couldn't live without it..

bananas
Aug 22, 2007, 09:34 AM
171kbs is the theoretical max speed

and the reality is 6 to 64 kbps

fingers
Aug 22, 2007, 09:35 AM
I am disapointed about O2 getting the iPhone gig in the UK.

My business (like a lot of others in the UK) uses Vodafone. I am really surprised/shocked that O2 have won. Mind you, until they announce it formally, I'll sit back and wait and see...

Malcster
Aug 22, 2007, 09:36 AM
171kbs is the theoretical max speed

Yup, thats in ideal conditions too.. stood next to the antenna!

Im used to HSPDA now (3G+) so to have to go back to GPRS would be horrific.

hob
Aug 22, 2007, 09:36 AM
I've gone back to GPRS after two 3G phones in a row... It's bloody slow.

Shame about O2. I left them for orange 2 years ago... Now I'm all buddied up with Orange for another 16 months... :(

I could always... move... to... France........ hmm, maybe not :p

Mac Fly (film)
Aug 22, 2007, 09:45 AM
Hopefully this also means O2 in Ireland on that same date. It would really suck if I had to wait until 2008 to get my iPhone. If I was going to wait until then I'd likely wait until the end of 2008 for the 16GB version.

Project
Aug 22, 2007, 09:46 AM
Whatever network Apple went with, people would be moaning.

jdc.i06
Aug 22, 2007, 09:47 AM
I've found 3's 3G signal in the UK to be outstanding. Almost everywhere I go i've been able to get a 3G signal, and this is with a Nokia 6288 which is supposed to have it's fair share of problems. Looks like no iPhone for me, i'm not leaving 3

Malcster
Aug 22, 2007, 09:51 AM
I've found 3's 3G signal in the UK to be outstanding. Almost everywhere I go i've been able to get a 3G signal, and this is with a Nokia 6288 which is supposed to have it's fair share of problems. Looks like no iPhone for me, i'm not leaving 3

Same for me with vodafone, HSPDA coverage is cracking, no wonder vodafone turned this down, after spending billions on a 3G license the last thing they want is a bunch of devices running on GPRS.

I can understand an all you want data plan on GPRS, you'll struggle to break a few meg a week!

Philsy
Aug 22, 2007, 09:51 AM
No, I wouldn't buy an iPhone that doesn't have 3G and a better camera with still and video capabilities. Sorry Apple...

toughboy
Aug 22, 2007, 09:54 AM
GPRS?! im not going back 5 years in phone technology thanks, ill pass.

and touch-screen, OSX in a smartphone and the elegance of iPhone is also going back in 5 years in phone technology too??:rolleyes:

jdc.i06
Aug 22, 2007, 09:56 AM
No, I wouldn't buy an iPhone that doesn't have 3G and a better camera with still and video capabilities. Sorry Apple...

Same for me. There are some serious flaws with the iPhone. Yes, great browser, but the lack of video recording is just dire. A low-end Motorola RAZR has that, and you can pick those up for £30-40. No 3G really is a deal breaker

Malcster
Aug 22, 2007, 09:57 AM
and touch-screen, OSX in a smartphone and the elegance of iPhone is also going back in 5 years in phone technology too??:rolleyes:

The interface is outstanding but i want data at more than 10k a second thanks.

Its like having a ferrari on a lada chassis.

thworple
Aug 22, 2007, 09:59 AM
Whatever network Apple went with, people would be moaning.

Totally agreed - I for one would loved for them to have chosen Vodafone as thats who I'm with currently and it would have made the switch of handsets easier, but at the end of the day I'll end up switching because the iPhone represents a brilliant convergence of technology for me. I will no longer have to have both a phone, and an iPod in my pocket. I'll have one easy-to-use unit, that will enable me to briefly check email and the bbc news website on the train to work in the morning.

ANTMUZ
Aug 22, 2007, 10:16 AM
Well O2 is not the best on customer service. But it does have decent network coverage and some good tariffs too.

My only real gripe is the O2 site is not Safari friendly at all. It just about works on Firefox. So you'll have a lot of trouble checking bills online from your Mac or iPhone.

Also I really cannot see us on 24 month contracts in the UK. And since the phone is not subsidised I really can't see people going for an 18 month contract. Hopefully they will offer it on a 12 month contract!

fewgraphik
Aug 22, 2007, 10:18 AM
Orange is a brand of france telecom.

the service is poor, really poor, and expensive !

I'm really sad, but prepared to pay this ********** company to get my iPhone !

damn !

:mad:

applemumba
Aug 22, 2007, 10:18 AM
Well well, it seems like O2 have the contract now! Hopefully they will have an attractive tariff as AT&T brought out in the states.

Looking for unlimited data (I think this must be a requirement from apple, as they would not won't people not being able to browse the full internet as iPhone advertises)

A family plan in the UK would be a first I think, which would be great, looking to get 2 iPhones when they come out so hope this is an option at the time!

I have noticed that on an existing O2 contract phone that we have the "G" for GPRS changed this morning to "E" Edge network.

Looks like O2 have been upgrading their network quietly and have switched it on this morning, the first thing I thought of when I saw this was its True, O2 will be getting the iPhone, its how long before they announce it now and what will the launch date be!!???!!!

We all wanna know.... as we all wanna be apart of the iPhone mania

al3000
Aug 22, 2007, 10:20 AM
I don't really mind which network its on, all networks have their pros and cons, although if the gprs rumour is true i will be extremely disappointed! :(

quigleybc
Aug 22, 2007, 10:22 AM
as a fan of Europe i'm pumped

as a Canadian I wanna barf

blurtigo
Aug 22, 2007, 10:29 AM
I guess like AT&T O2 needed it the most, and were prepared to spend/give-in to get it. They are certainly throwing the money around at the moment, what with buying the Dome as welll.

If they've upgraded their network to Edge, I'll probably jump ship from Orange (who I'm actually very happy with) to get it. It's not 3G, but I can live with it as I spend a lot of time within range of Wi-Fi.

Running an iPhone on GPRS though would be masochistic and wrong.

jdc.i06
Aug 22, 2007, 10:34 AM
Whenever my 3G phone (Nokia 6288) is on the Orange network (the fallback network for when 3's 3G signal cannot be found) it usually has the E symbol, meaning that Orange probably have EDGE too.

lazyrighteye
Aug 22, 2007, 10:39 AM
GPRS?! im not going back 5 years in phone technology thanks, ill pass.

I love it.
All you haters out there that say you'll pass (you know who you are)... I wonder how many truly WILL pass once they have used the device?

Everyone tries to hate on the iPhone. Unfortunately, it's human nature.
My neighbor is a perfect example of a hater.
Always asking about the phone, quick to mention/rehash what the media reports about security breaks, no PS etc.
He finally asked me to see the phone (that's right, like many, had for med his opinion based on crap he read vs. actually using the device) and he was BLOWN AWAY.
Now, I know you don't know my neighbor, but his reaction is common. It has been real interesting sharing the device with others. Kids, parents, grandparents - everyone is intrigued. Everyone, once told where the Home button is, can navigate the device. It truly is a fantastically well-thought device (sorry, I just can't call it a phone... it really is so much more. Much closer to a hand-held Mac than a phone).

I was skeptical about a few things going into my June 29th purchase (keyboard, EDGE). I have had zero regrets. None (both the keyboard & EDGE are non-issues, for me).
It has worked, as advertised, from the get-go.
How many products can anyone say that of today?
Sadly, very, very few.

Life is short.
Hate less.
Enjoy more.

emotion
Aug 22, 2007, 10:49 AM
GPRS?! im not going back 5 years in phone technology thanks, ill pass.

Me too.

A good chunk of the non-fashion market will too.

The aweful-ness of the O2 data rates suggests that it could in fact be them that gets it as they are waiting to unveil the new data rates at the same time.

emotion
Aug 22, 2007, 10:51 AM
I love it.
All you haters out there that say you'll pass (you know who you are)... I wonder how many truly WILL pass once they have used the device?

Everyone tries to hate on the iPhone. Unfortunately, it's human nature.
My neighbor is a perfect example of a hater.
Always asking about the phone, quick to mention/rehash what the media reports about security breaks, no PS etc.
He finally asked me to see the phone (that's right, like many, had for med his opinion based on crap he read vs. actually using the device) and he was BLOWN AWAY.
Now, I know you don't know my neighbor, but his reaction is common. It has been real interesting sharing the device with others. Kids, parents, grandparents - everyone is intrigued. Everyone, once told where the Home button is, can navigate the device. It truly is a fantastically well-thought device (sorry, I just can't call it a phone... it really is so much more. Much closer to a hand-held Mac than a phone).

I was skeptical about a few things going into my June 29th purchase (keyboard, EDGE). I have had zero regrets. None (both the keyboard & EDGE are non-issues, for me).


You have EDGE in the US. Only Orange have that in the UK. GPRS is even slower.

edit: just read whole thread. O2 may indeed have EDGE. I'll defintely pass then. I don't just want 3G I want HSDPA.

applemumba
Aug 22, 2007, 10:52 AM
Just a quick update.

If you all didn't know before am sure you will find out now.

When O2 were still part of British Telecom (BT), they bided and purchased the first 3G license and paid large amount for it too which in turn crippled them.

They then sold O2 division off to Telefónica and now its known as O2 still but just owned by a different parent company, so upgrading to the Edge network I think was easier than everyone may have thought in the beginning.

Am sure they will provide a good service and the plans will not be inline with anything they have done before. I think we will see some good plans coming out of the deals.

Evangelion
Aug 22, 2007, 10:53 AM
GPRS?! im not going back 5 years in phone technology thanks, ill pass.

Oh come on! I'm typing this on Nokia E61 through GPRS and it's fast enough. 3G eats batteries faster and there's no tangible difference in speed. The bottleneck in websurfing is propably the CPU and not the connection. things might be different on proper computers though.

Santa Rosa
Aug 22, 2007, 10:54 AM
I really don't see why Apple didn't stick with T-Mobile in the UK

T-Mobile in the UK is basically terrible, anyone I have known to have T-Mobile has hated it, one of my friends might as well have had no sim card in his phone thats how bad the service was.

Apple have done well to get in with O2 if that is what has happened. O2 or Vodafone are the two main companies in the UK that would suit the iPhone IMHO. I would have preferred Vodafone personally but am definately not bummed if O2 have the contract.

If T-Mobile or Orange had got it then that I think on the whole would have been a bit of a disaster, Im sure there are many happy customers with these networks but I would have said the majority would prefer O2 or Vodafone.

Anyhow barring all the who's gonna get the iPhone and all the other jibber jabber about what it hasnt got and what it cannot do I personally cannot wait to fork out what it costs for one in the UK and Im sure there are many more of you out there who cannot wait to get your hands on one UK launch day!!

Anyone think there will be a UK launch meet up section in the forum??? :)

Malcster
Aug 22, 2007, 10:57 AM
Oh come on! I'm typing this on Nokia E61 through GPRS and it's fast enough. 3G eats batteries faster and there's no tangible difference in speed. The bottleneck in websurfing is propably the CPU and not the connection. things might be different on proper computers though.

No tangible difference in speed??? 6k compared to 1 Megabit+ on HSPDA?

You jest. The difference is HUGE!

Evangelion
Aug 22, 2007, 11:05 AM
No tangible difference in speed??? 6k compared to 1 Megabit+ on HSPDA?

You jest. The difference is HUGE!

Nope, can't see any difference when surfing on the phone. What I can see are these cases where no data is moving at all, but the website has not completed loading. And those happen with 3G and GPRS. It seems to me that in those times the CPU on the phone is running red-hot trying to parse the website. So the bottLeneck is not the connection, it's the phone itself.

Yes, I have used both connections on this phone. And the connection has never been the bottleneck for me.

Consultant
Aug 22, 2007, 11:05 AM
My coworker showed me his new $500 ($350 refurbed) Windows Mobile "Smart Phone" yesterday. It's a joke.

He said he cannot connect to his home wifi network without researching for hours and then found out that he had to add a static ip.

He tried to access the open wifi we were in. It didn't work either. After 5 minutes and trying different things, he realized his home setting with its static IP is still active. Finally the browser starts to connect.

On the wifi network, it took many seconds to access the mobi portion of YAHOO. (I just glazed over and didn't count how many seconds). The mobile IE browser does not allow zooming, barely show any images, and has awful formatting. Combine that with low resolution screen means even the mobile version of that web site is hardly readable and requires constant scrlling with 2 separate scrolling bars.

Not impressed at all.

*** Well, the whole point is that Windoze Mobile phones and BB on faster wifi connection accessing low-bandwidth barely-usable mobi web sites, takes about the same time as iPhone on Edge, accessing real web sites.

So no matter what network the iPhone is on, the iPhone is and Will be the most usable mobile communication device for the foreseeable future.

m2uk
Aug 22, 2007, 11:06 AM
Odd. Guess they are getting the wrinkles out before bringing it to the mobileaholics region of Nordic/Scandinavia and give Nokia some competition. So one has to wait more :(

emotion
Aug 22, 2007, 11:08 AM
So no matter what network the iPhone is on, the iPhone is and Will be the most usable mobile communication device for the foreseeable future.

Not sure anyone is really debating that. Most phones/smartphones suck.

The problem is that when apple finally offer the 3G iphone i'll want one. If that's 6 months into my contract i'll not be happy. That's why many many people will wait this out.

t0mat0
Aug 22, 2007, 11:09 AM
O2 definitely has the contract for UK -
I spoke to a rep recently - they're changing their data plan and also have other things in the works for a scheduled data of ~26th September or thereabouts, so it fits nicely with an October release, and a press release at the Apple event.

No info on what current customers can expect (who can upgrade etc).

nebsta
Aug 22, 2007, 11:19 AM
Well O2 is not the best on customer service. But it does have decent network coverage and some good tariffs too.

My only real gripe is the O2 site is not Safari friendly at all. It just about works on Firefox. So you'll have a lot of trouble checking bills online from your Mac or iPhone.

Also I really cannot see us on 24 month contracts in the UK. And since the phone is not subsidised I really can't see people going for an 18 month contract. Hopefully they will offer it on a 12 month contract!

O2 already do 24 month contracts so it looks like we can expect the same as the US :(

Plutonius
Aug 22, 2007, 11:26 AM
A few months ago, someone posted here indicating how O2 could easily upgrade it's network to edge (the network hardware is compatible with EDGE and it's only a software change). If thats true, O2 will be using EDGE for the iPhone.

Well well, it seems like O2 have the contract now! Hopefully they will have an attractive tariff as AT&T brought out in the states.

Looking for unlimited data (I think this must be a requirement from apple, as they would not won't people not being able to browse the full internet as iPhone advertises)

A family plan in the UK would be a first I think, which would be great, looking to get 2 iPhones when they come out so hope this is an option at the time!

I have noticed that on an existing O2 contract phone that we have the "G" for GPRS changed this morning to "E" Edge network.

Looks like O2 have been upgrading their network quietly and have switched it on this morning, the first thing I thought of when I saw this was its True, O2 will be getting the iPhone, its how long before they announce it now and what will the launch date be!!???!!!

We all wanna know.... as we all wanna be apart of the iPhone mania

fireplace
Aug 22, 2007, 11:30 AM
The interface is outstanding but i want data at more than 10k a second thanks.

Its like having a ferrari on a lada chassis.

as good as a lada?

what's the data transfer rate for 2 yogurt pots and a length of string?

02 customer service is abysmal, its all in India and even their written emails are vitually unintelligble gibberish. The only reason I am with them is that I got so depressed trying to contact anyone with any authority that I gave up until the contract expires. Their website is appallingly designed too, go to the bit where they try to sell games and navigate through it - i dare you;)

The only thing that would make me stay would be an iphone with 3g or better, other networks may not have iphone but there are going to be new phones from SE and nokia that i'll at least be able to surf the net on.

I'm preparing to have to wait for Rev 2 at least, unless Steve really makes it 'a great year' - seems to have been reasonably average so far:rolleyes:

yetanotherdave
Aug 22, 2007, 11:44 AM
as much as I really really really want an iPhone, if it's GPRS that would kill the experience. What's the point in having a fast fluid UI then waiting 2 minutes for a page to load?
I guess I'm glad in a way that I have about 14 months left on vodafone, by the time I've sat that out there should be an iPhone 2 or 3 with 3G, and maybe on other networks too.
o2 needs to sort its data tarriff out, we'll just have to wait on that one.

jdc.i06
Aug 22, 2007, 11:46 AM
When loading 3's home page through GPRS/EDGE (when there is no 3G signal) it takes ages, but on a 3G connection the page comes up almost instantly, and this isn't even on a smartphone, it's on a Nokia 6288, So there is no way that saying using GPRS/EDGE to load pages on the iPhone will be anything but painful

dalvin200
Aug 22, 2007, 11:51 AM
i'm still holding hope for a 3G iPhone to be released in a few months time in the UK/Europe..

It's just the norm nowadays..

What if someone took your widescreen TV away (be it CRT or LCD/Plasma etc..) and replaced it with an old 4:3 square box TV..
After being used to widescreen, you just can't go back, as it's the way forward.. similar theory with the 3G/GPRS debate..

I'd sacrifice battery life for 3G anyday.. i have been for the past 2 years on my nokia smartphone which I have to charge almost every night.

DominicUK
Aug 22, 2007, 11:52 AM
O2 in the UK seems like a strange choice. The iPhone seems like a perfect with with T-Mobile - nobody comes close to their "web'n'walk" unlimited data package for 7.50 a month. As for people moaning about their coverage, I've never had a problem with it either here in Bath or anywhere else.

I don't work for T-Mobile or have any affiliation with them, but after a few years on Orange, 3 and Vodafone, they have easily the best customer service. That will count for a lot when the iPhone comes out if Apple want people to have a good experience...

t0mat0
Aug 22, 2007, 12:13 PM
O2 in the UK seems like a strange choice. The iPhone seems like a perfect with with T-Mobile - nobody comes close to their "web'n'walk" unlimited data package for 7.50 a month. As for people moaning about their coverage, I've never had a problem with it either here in Bath or anywhere else.

I don't work for T-Mobile or have any affiliation with them, but after a few years on Orange, 3 and Vodafone, they have easily the best customer service. That will count for a lot when the iPhone comes out if Apple want people to have a good experience...

Orange's customer service has gone downhill rapidly recently. Whilst i haven't had too much o do with O2's customer service, it hasn't been too bad. you got to remember that they'll be bringing in new data packages/plans when they announce the contract - Apple just wouldn't let them commit marketing suicide by not having flat data plan options when the iPhone rolls out.
Maybe they'll even have sorted out the size of the phone bill.
The o2 3g network works fine over my N73 - it's just th pain of using a small screen to get to the internet...

abrooks
Aug 22, 2007, 12:20 PM
02 customer service is abysmal, its all in India and even their written emails are vitually unintelligble gibberish. The only reason I am with them is that I got so depressed trying to contact anyone with any authority that I gave up until the contract expires.

Bah! Speak for yourself, O2 customer support is amazing. Always helpful and English/some other region of UK.

yetanotherdave
Aug 22, 2007, 12:22 PM
O2 in the UK seems like a strange choice. The iPhone seems like a perfect with with T-Mobile - nobody comes close to their "web'n'walk" unlimited data package for 7.50 a month. As for people moaning about their coverage, I've never had a problem with it either here in Bath or anywhere else.

I don't work for T-Mobile or have any affiliation with them, but after a few years on Orange, 3 and Vodafone, they have easily the best customer service. That will count for a lot when the iPhone comes out if Apple want people to have a good experience...

Vodafone have just launched a £7.50 inlimited data add on also.

BCNMacLovr
Aug 22, 2007, 12:34 PM
What about Spain and Italy?? All right, maybe Spain is not a good market for Apple, but ITALY?... They're one of the most advanced countries in mobile technologies!!!

I supose Telefónica will bring the iPhone to Spain, thing that I hate because I'm a Vodafone (not Vodaphone) client.
I think I'm going to wait and see how the iPhone works in Europe, and then... buy it.

ts1973
Aug 22, 2007, 12:44 PM
All this people here ranting about this company's service stinks and that company's phone reception is awfull... WAKE UP !! You think Apple cares ?

All they care about at the moment is to go with a provider that is as big as possible, while at the same time giving in to their excruciating demands of 10% of the revenue made out of iPhone. Apple is caring about the money, nothing less ! That is why we won't see an iphone in many countries, including my own... I think we won't see an iphone in much of Europe until most of the hype has blown over, and Apple has made enough money to let providers have the phone without the 10% deal...

As far as I can see, iphone seems like a very sweet device to have. I would love to have one. But because of Apple's "attitude", I think I'll settle for the next best thing, like HTC's Touch or something. Yes, it's Windoze Mobile, but at least I can buy it :rolleyes:

So far MY rant, peace to :apple: ;)

Evangelion
Aug 22, 2007, 12:44 PM
as much as I really really really want an iPhone, if it's GPRS that would kill the experience. What's the point in having a fast fluid UI then waiting 2 minutes for a page to load?

Seriously: you guys are overblowing it. I have surfed with both 3G and GPRS. And the difference between the two is neglible. The big bottleneck in my case is the phone itself, that is struggling to parse the website. The speed of the connection is not the bottleneck, the bottleneck is the CPU.

In fact: I just tested it: I opened macrumors.com using 3G and then using GPRS (on the same phone). No real difference in speed. In both cases I got pauses as the phone was parsing the website, and the connection was never the bottleneck.

Sure, I wouldn't want to use GPRS when surfing on a laptop. But for surfing on a phone it's adequate.

yetanotherdave
Aug 22, 2007, 12:57 PM
Seriously: you guys are overblowing it. I have surfed with both 3G and GPRS. And the difference between the two is neglible. The big bottleneck in my case is the phone itself, that is struggling to parse the website. The speed of the connection is not the bottleneck, the bottleneck is the CPU.

In fact: I just tested it: I opened macrumors.com using 3G and then using GPRS (on the same phone). No real difference in speed. In both cases I got pauses as the phone was parsing the website, and the connection was never the bottleneck.

Sure, I wouldn't want to use GPRS when surfing on a laptop. But for surfing on a phone it's adequate.

in that case you've got a crap CPU in your phone!
I too have surfed with 3G and GPRS, I have an N73, it is 3g and when I'm out of a 3g area (rare on vodafone) it switches to GPRS.
I use opera on the phone, 3g, loads nice and quick, gprs, loads sloooow. One is faster than the other, and what youy don't seem to get is, the iPhone has a decent CPU. It wont bottleneck data, because it is fast enough to handle it.

Evangelion
Aug 22, 2007, 01:04 PM
in that case you've got a crap CPU in your phone!

Nokia E61. I don't think it has "crap CPU".

and what youy don't seem to get is, the iPhone has a decent CPU. It wont bottleneck data, because it is fast enough to handle it.

But the thing is that GPRS is not "slow" on my phone. The speed is decent. if iPhone is a bit faster, due to faster CPU, I really fail to see the problem.

Maybe you just have crappy GPRS-networks?

Rhuantavan
Aug 22, 2007, 01:06 PM
I really want to see the iPhone released over the whole EU (as any other cell phone is), not just the big selected countries... I guess the countries list will be as short as it is now with the iTunes Store. :(

spaz8
Aug 22, 2007, 01:11 PM
wheres Canada fit into all this?

gkhaldi
Aug 22, 2007, 01:16 PM
Seriously: you guys are overblowing it. I have surfed with both 3G and GPRS. And the difference between the two is neglible. The big bottleneck in my case is the phone itself, that is struggling to parse the website. The speed of the connection is not the bottleneck, the bottleneck is the CPU.

In fact: I just tested it: I opened macrumors.com using 3G and then using GPRS (on the same phone). No real difference in speed. In both cases I got pauses as the phone was parsing the website, and the connection was never the bottleneck.

Sure, I wouldn't want to use GPRS when surfing on a laptop. But for surfing on a phone it's adequate.

I agree with your statement if it's only browsing but when you do your email (which seems a real possibility with the iPhone) it makes a bog difference :o

gkhaldi
Aug 22, 2007, 01:16 PM
wheres Canada fit into all this?

Hé? :D

bigandy
Aug 22, 2007, 01:21 PM
I have noticed that on an existing O2 contract phone that we have the "G" for GPRS changed this morning to "E" Edge network.
If this is indeed the case, I'm quite a lot more interested than I would have been had EDGE not been added. However, I'm still not a fan of o2. Past experience means that while the iPhone may cause me to wet my pants with excitement, it'll still take a lot convincing to persuade me back to those imbeciles.

My coworker showed me his new $500 ($350 refurbed) Windows Mobile "Smart Phone" yesterday. It's a joke.

He said he cannot connect to his home wifi network without researching for hours and then found out that he had to add a static ip.
I have never had a DHCP issue with my SPV M600 (http://www.business.orange.co.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Business&c=OUKDevice&cid=1142943295399). It's a fantastic device. I'd hazard a guess there's an issue with your friend's phone. I'm upgrading mine to WM6 over the weekend :)

Plus, my phone runs Sim City 2000 (http://handheld.softpedia.com/get/Games/Strategy/SimCity-2000-14598.shtml) :D

Vodafone have just launched a £7.50 inlimited data add on also.
*subject to 38,295,913 clauses to make you pay a minimum of £150 a month
:rolleyes:

ABM
Aug 22, 2007, 01:30 PM
...I have an N73...

Nokia E61. ...

It's the same ARM processor: ARM-926, 220 MHz ;)

psycho bob
Aug 22, 2007, 03:35 PM
T-Mobile in the UK is basically terrible, anyone I have known to have T-Mobile has hated it, one of my friends might as well have had no sim card in his phone thats how bad the service was.

Apple have done well to get in with O2 if that is what has happened. O2 or Vodafone are the two main companies in the UK that would suit the iPhone IMHO. I would have preferred Vodafone personally but am definately not bummed if O2 have the contract.

If T-Mobile or Orange had got it then that I think on the whole would have been a bit of a disaster, Im sure there are many happy customers with these networks but I would have said the majority would prefer O2 or Vodafone.



I've never had any problems with T-Mobile and since I've joined 3 of my friends have joined as well. I've never have any dropped signals or calls, neither have they. I can get a signal when O2, Vodafone and Orange customers cannot. I think a lot has to do with handset choice.

In my view the decision to go with O2 in the UK is based solely on money and Apple being able to get the best deal. I don't think the best choice for customers has anything to do with it. I guess on the bright side at least they didn't choose 3!

yetanotherdave
Aug 22, 2007, 03:35 PM
It's the same ARM processor: ARM-926, 220 MHz ;)

My phone processor is better than... oh wait

The E61 must be doing something wrong, because if you are receiving data at 10x the speed, but not getting it displayed in any less time, that means the phone is processing data slower the faster it receives it! :eek:

Ninja Dom
Aug 22, 2007, 04:10 PM
I use a Blackberry 8300 Curve. That uses GPRS. For push emails GPRS is absolutely fine. There's a reason why Blackberry devices are so damn popular (yes there are a few 3G models).

As for web surfing the slowest thing is loading the very first page once you start up the web browser. Once the first page has loaded up (no matter what it is) other pages load reasonably fast.

twoodcc
Aug 22, 2007, 05:04 PM
this doesn't really affect me, but i hope apple gets the iPhone out there

Sulis
Aug 22, 2007, 06:19 PM
9to5mac is reporting that, according to an Orange rep, the European iPhone is 3G.

3. The iPhone will be 3G in Europe. This means it will be a different hardware device than that of the American model. There was no mention of a GPS or memory differences – not that those won’t come out. This confers with this report http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/22/ft_iphone_launch/ which lays out the case by showing the huge investment in network - $8Billion.

http://9to5mac.com/apple-orange-ipone-details-43252450

Seriously hope this is true.

markfc
Aug 22, 2007, 06:52 PM
In 11 years of service Orange have been excellent to me, I won't be leaving them to get an iPhone.....shame.

Evangelion
Aug 23, 2007, 02:03 AM
My phone processor is better than... oh wait

The E61 must be doing something wrong, because if you are receiving data at 10x the speed, but not getting it displayed in any less time, that means the phone is processing data slower the faster it receives it! :eek:

It's not 10x faster. The speed of 3G is 384 kbit/s for mobile systems (stationary devices can reach 1mbit+/sec). EDGE is 236.8 kbit/s. You tell me: is EDGE REALLY that slow when compared to 3G? People here seem to think that using EDGE is horrible when compared to EDGE. That it's like going back to the stone-age. When in reality it's not like that. Yes, it's somewhat slower. But like I said: the connection has never been the bottleneck for me. Of course you can have crappy networks that are slow, but that's not a problem with GPRS as such, it's the carriers fault. Maybe we have good-quality GPRS-networks here, I don't know.

The phone is processing the data at the same speed, no matter if it's 3G or GPRS. Using 3G, the data arrives slightly faster than with GPRS, but the difference is neglible.

ABM
Aug 23, 2007, 02:52 AM
The phone is processing the data at the same speed, no matter if it's 3G or GPRS. Using 3G, the data arrives slightly faster than with GPRS, but the difference is neglible.

Most people think of HSDPA when they talk about 3G. That's the probem i think.

GPRS: up to 171.2 kbit/s
EDGE: up to 384 kbit/s
CDMA (UMTS): up to 384 kbit/s
WCDMA (UMTS): up to 2 Mbit/s (1920 kbit/s)
HSDPA (UMTS): up to 14.4 Mbit/s gross (10.8 Mbit/s after deductions), HSDPA-Category 12 (=max. 1.8 Mbit/s), HSDPA-Category 6 (=max. 3.6 Mbit/s)

iNev
Aug 23, 2007, 03:13 AM
T-Mobile customer service were great when I phoned up to try and switch to O2. They said that I could have a new phone and that they would match any price plan on offer from any competitor. When I pointed out that this was all well and good but not really of any relevance as I couldn't get a signal in my home, office or half of Edinburgh. Their response? "That's fine sir, I understand, thanks for your call."

Of course this was a few years ago.

emotion
Aug 23, 2007, 03:20 AM
Most people think of HSDPA when they talk about 3G. That's the probem i think.

GPRS: up to 171.2 kbit/s
EDGE: up to 384 kbit/s
CDMA (UMTS): up to 384 kbit/s
WCDMA (UMTS): up to 2 Mbit/s (1920 kbit/s)
HSDPA (UMTS): up to 14.4 Mbit/s gross (10.8 Mbit/s after deductions), HSDPA-Category 12 (=max. 1.8 Mbit/s), HSDPA-Category 6 (=max. 3.6 Mbit/s)

Nice clarification. When talking about 3G I've qualified what I mean by stating we need HSDPA (see earlier in the thread).

All new mid to high end phones due in the same release window as iPhone are equipped with this technology. SE has a few very nice phones due in the autumn with HSDPA.

Rom Rim
Aug 25, 2007, 05:06 PM
Those Europeans will have legitimate access to GSM. It's not really fair. Why should they have a better deal than we get? I hope Apple's prices are doubled as they usually are. If they want GSM they should pay for it! :apple:

ABM
Aug 26, 2007, 03:43 AM
Those Europeans will have legitimate access to GSM. It's not really fair. Why should they have a better deal than we get? I hope Apple's prices are doubled as they usually are. If they want GSM they should pay for it! :apple:

What the hell are you talking about?

emotion
Aug 26, 2007, 05:02 AM
Those Europeans will have legitimate access to GSM. It's not really fair. Why should they have a better deal than we get? I hope Apple's prices are doubled as they usually are. If they want GSM they should pay for it! :apple:

You're the "I didn't like Amsterdam" guy aren't you? It shows.

:D

Back to the topic. It looks like, if no 3G for iPhone then I'll try a Samsung i620 (next gen "Blackjack") with Missing Sync for a while.

t0mat0
Aug 26, 2007, 06:11 AM
Those Europeans will have legitimate access to GSM. It's not really fair. Why should they have a better deal than we get? I hope Apple's prices are doubled as they usually are. If they want GSM they should pay for it! :apple:

In the UK we've been paying through the nose for cellphone use/ data use/ high end broadband speeds. Now the market is slowly getting there (coverage of broadband, ADSL2+, companies like Be who do 24Mb broadband, data plansfrom 3 etc)

Why should we get a better deal? Our telcos forked out for it, we've been paying for there 3G contracts, and now have something that will hopefully use it at a fair cost for data usage.The companies have paid legitimately big sums, e.g. O2 for it's 3G contract was ~£4 billion. O2 has now O2 tested HSDPA and is/has already launched a 3.6Mbps HSDPA network (in Ireland), so launching a data-centric device which makes no use of that investment would be politically difficult.


O2 will have to launch at least in the UK with 3G (it's only announcing 5th September/25th September, as the product release to the stores can be later.) The 3G will be it seems have slightly different dimensions (larger) with an upgraded screen etc, and probable Apple TV integration somehow.

Through different network readiness, different contracts (e.g. France's laws on unlocking provider after 6 months, 2 years), and the state of the markets in UK all come to give UK and other European countries a chance at getting 3G iPhone soon.

We don't need to pay extra really in the UK at least as sterling is so strong, plus there is fierce competition on the market already. Free Nokia N95s? Rival Crackberrys with 3G and the multimedia extras? iPhone has serious competition in the European market, and that's why Apple have been making 3G versions to share with it, and to upgrade the US iPhone.
<Edit - spelling>

emotion
Aug 26, 2007, 08:01 AM
Probably not the best in accuracies but this is amongst a few rumours suggesting two phones in development all along a Apple:

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2169424/apple-iphone-two-models

ABM
Aug 26, 2007, 11:11 AM
Probably not the best in accuracies but this is amongst a few rumours suggesting two phones in development all along a Apple:

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2169424/apple-iphone-two-models

Did you see date of publication? "24 Nov 2006"

emotion
Aug 26, 2007, 12:03 PM
Did you see date of publication? "24 Nov 2006"

Yes. Like I say above that's not a great example. I've seen others. I'm just suggesting that if there is a world version of the iphone it would be covered by rumours we've already seen.

ABM
Aug 26, 2007, 12:21 PM
I think that we will get the same non-3G iPhone than in the US. I doubt that we will see a 3G iPhone before mid to end 2008.

emotion
Aug 26, 2007, 01:31 PM
I think that we will get the same non-3G iPhone than in the US. I doubt that we will see a 3G iPhone before mid to end 2008.

As much as it's a shame, I pretty much agree (maybe earlier on the update to 3G).

t0mat0
Aug 26, 2007, 04:12 PM
Why the delay though? It's not like 3G is new here in at least some parts of Europe? I think people would take the hit if they knew their iPhone was 3G capable, but being held back till the US caught up.

Applespider
Aug 26, 2007, 06:24 PM
I think that we will get the same non-3G iPhone than in the US. I doubt that we will see a 3G iPhone before mid to end 2008.

I'd agree... sadly.

At one point, I did hold out some hope that the only reason for not announcing the Euro deals was so they could announce a second gen iPhone with 3G with a long enough delay that the very early adopters didn't feel too screwed.

I'm due an O2 upgrade in the next month and I will wait to see what the deal with the iPhone is and these new data plans they're rolling out. Otherwise, the N95 looks tempting although my current N73 has kinda put me off S60 phones.

m2uk
Aug 26, 2007, 11:32 PM
I suspect Apple will find the Iphone not to be so succesful once the press in EU make it clear that this is a slow model (if it is in fact non 3G) and many people will wait for 3G or go elsewhere for similar.

I want an Iphone but will not buy GPRS model (or buy used from eBay if price was cheap). I have GPRS now on my Nokia and will not go half measure.

ABM
Aug 27, 2007, 02:09 AM
Having UMTS or not will not be THE big thing in my opinion (not anymore)

Just have a look on the UMTS coverage, i.e. Germany:

http://mitglied.lycos.de/px80/t-mobile.jpg

m2uk
Aug 27, 2007, 03:20 AM
ABN: Isn't there more to life that T Mobile though ? And of course more to Europe than Germany:!

ABM
Aug 27, 2007, 03:48 AM
I am sure there is, but unfortunately i didn't found UMTS coverage maps for France (Orange) and the UK (O2).

Rumors say these countries are next... That's the reason for looking after those.

Manic Mouse
Aug 27, 2007, 05:13 AM
For existing customers how hard is it to move onto the iPhone? I'm a current O2 customer in the UK, do I just buy the iPhone and upgrade my contract to unlimited data? Is that how it works with AT&T?

t0mat0
Aug 27, 2007, 09:45 AM
I am sure there is, but unfortunately i didn't found UMTS coverage maps for France (Orange) and the UK (O2).

Rumors say these countries are next... That's the reason for looking after those.

http://www.mobilecomms-technology.com/projects/gprs_uk/gprs_uk1.html
http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=gb&net=hu
google'd umts map and uk...

ABM
Aug 27, 2007, 12:34 PM
http://www.mobilecomms-technology.com/projects/gprs_uk/gprs_uk1.html
http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=gb&net=hu
google'd umts map and uk...

Found those too, but the first one is not real situation and second one isn't O2, it is hutchison.

t0mat0
Aug 28, 2007, 10:30 AM
Well, I've emailed the Customer service - have a N73 with them (like a few others above) so will see if they can come out with it. It'll more likely be published when the ontracts are confirmed to the press, as they'll want to boast about coverage and speed.

emotion
Aug 28, 2007, 11:22 AM
The coverage on each network is easy to find on their respective websites.

We are far from full coverage for 3G with O2 and Three.

For O2 (dark blue is video/3G):

http://www.webmap.o2.co.uk/mapimage/MAP100585100251411743.GIF

Vodafone are like this:

http://maps.vodafone.co.uk/coverageviewer/web/Map.aspx?XMIN=-176259.99999999994&YMIN=-97522.5&XMAX=846140&YMAX=967477.5&WIDTH=384&HEIGHT=400&service=GB&mode=&modeValue=&searchEasting=&searchNorthing=&searchMapService=&searchType=postcode&activeLayer=nohs_ys3g_ys2g&scale=8

Three like this:
http://www.three.co.uk/output/Hutch3GUKCoverage_hut10map012714712294812.jpg

and t-Mobile:

http://t-map.t-mobile.co.uk/output/UMTS_UK_magenta_ds31101a2121965496.png


Bottom line after I've properly looked into this is that the netwroks aren't there yet for 3G coverage quite as much as I'd thought (though it's mostly fine for where I need it).

Edit: I think these images may disappear over time. Go to the respective websites for up to date info, the low coverage is an eye opener.

t0mat0
Sep 4, 2007, 06:28 AM
For O2 - the one relevant for UK customers of iPhone:

MTS (Universal Mobile Telecommunications System) coverage map.

Please follow the steps given below to find if you have 3G coverage in your area:

1. Please click on the link http://www.o2.co.uk/
2. When our website opens, please click on the 'Services' tab.
3. Now click on 'UK coverage' that appears on the left hand side of your screen (in the blue column).
4. The next page that opens, give you an option to check the 3G coverage in your area.

You can check this in any of the following ways:

a) By entering your postcode.
b) By entering your town/city
c) Your motorway junction.
d) Cell Site reference (if you know one)
e) By entering the name of the place.


If you need further details about O2, please visit our online Help Centre at:

http://www.o2.co.uk/help

mkjj
Sep 4, 2007, 08:06 AM
i'm Ok then, apart from London, Liverpool area has some of the best coverage in the country! :cool:

emotion
Sep 4, 2007, 08:41 AM
i'm Ok then, apart from London, Liverpool area has some of the best coverage in the country! :cool:

Apart from the gap between Warrington and Manchester. My train journey to work.

The lack of coverage just shows that most people in the UK would be better off with a wifi/EDGE device.

ABM
Sep 4, 2007, 09:09 AM
For O2 - the one relevant for UK customers of iPhone:

MTS (Universal Mobile Telecommunications System) coverage map.

Please follow the steps given below to find if you have 3G coverage in your area:

1. Please click on the link http://www.o2.co.uk/
2. When our website opens, please click on the 'Services' tab.
3. Now click on 'UK coverage' that appears on the left hand side of your screen (in the blue column).
4. The next page that opens, give you an option to check the 3G coverage in your area.

You can check this in any of the following ways:

a) By entering your postcode.
b) By entering your town/city
c) Your motorway junction.
d) Cell Site reference (if you know one)
e) By entering the name of the place.


If you need further details about O2, please visit our online Help Centre at:

http://www.o2.co.uk/help
...but still no way to get a countrywide map, same as for Orange (France)