Macworld to Stay in New York?

[MacRumors]

This Boston Herald article (http://www.bostonherald.com/business/business/mac08082003.htm) reports that IDG World Expo may not be moving Macworld Expo to Boston as previously reported.

While final decision hasn't yet been made, IDG has already canceled hotel reservations at the Seaport Hotel for that time period. David Korse, the new head of IDG will be making a decision by Labor Day. David Korse replaced Charlie Greco, who was particularly vocal (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/09/20020901064957.shtml) last year about his wishes to move Macworld back to Boston. The subsequent announcement (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/10/20021008110429.shtml) of the move was met with resistance (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030207030950.shtml) from Apple -- who announced that it would not be participating in Macworld Boston.

Apple did decrease its involvement in this years Macworld NewYork (now known as Macworld Creative Pro). It's unclear what level of involvement Apple will take in future summer Macworlds regardless of the location.

[MacsRgr8]

I still think MacWorld New York sounds better than MacWorld Boston....

We have:
SF,
Tokyo
Paris....
... what fits better, New York or Boston?

[Ambrose Chapel]

Sucks for me...would have been nice to walk over there and check it out. I still don't expect Apple to have a big presence regardless of where it is. I'm sure Steve is happy not to have to meet another MW deadline for more insanely great stuff.

[Jerry Spoon]

Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel
I still don't expect Apple to have a big presence regardless of where it is. I'm sure Steve is happy not to have to meet another MW deadline for more insanely great stuff.

But now Steve has set a precedent of not doing a keynote there, so there's no pressure...but if the timing was right to release something around that time of year NY would make a great location and provide a great audience.

[Neotronik]

I'm not happy about Steve dissing Macworld NYC. Therefore I missed it too. Alot of people missed it. I bought my first mac because of Macworld 2001. The atmosphere was incredible and it was my first time seeing Steve and his keynote. I'm in the market for a new Mac this year; I ordered a dual 2ghz g5 but I may cancel; October is way off and the announcement of getting to 3ghz by next year has already been made. I may go for an amd 64 as it will be available soon and I will wait for apple to go to 3ghz. Again; If i'm forced to wait an the amd 64 comes out; Adios Apple. Adios Macworld too. The aura of the mac has worn thin on me. Steve Jobs has worn thin on me. Forcing hardware on you thatj outdates itself 3 - 6 months with no upgrade path is so big brother to me. No processor upgrades? Have to go to third parties; that stinks!!!! Forcing and OS down your throat isn't attractive either. I do audio; still waiting for good audio units. Thanks for abandoning os9 Steve. **** the other platform allows you to go all the way back to DOS; that's insane. (Hey don't kill me; Yeah; dos sucks and so did windows until 98SE) I think AMD is on the money; they are doing all the right things; I can buy an AMD now upgrade the motherboard if necessary and processor in a year and not have to spend 3000 dollars to do so. Why does that seem so much more appealing to me? Oh Yah; it makes alot of sense! it puts me back in control of things and gives me choices. I'm more comfortable with that.

[synthetickittie]

dam!.. ya I live in boston so I was kinda hoping it would be here.

[mstecker]

It all comes down to:

1) Macworld is nothing without Apple going in 100%

2) Apple wants it in NY

3) Apple was willing to walk if it wasn't in NY.

It will be in NY, and not this crappy "creative pro" nonsense either. I can't wait for another <real> MWNY.

[mstecker]

Originally posted by Neotronik
... with no upgrade path is so big brother to me. No processor upgrades? Have to go to third parties; that stinks!!!!

I always point out to people who complain about this that the resale values of Macs on eBay and elsewhere are very very high compared with PCs. What this means is that it's very easy to buy new hardware and support the cost by selling your old hardware.

Which would you prefer? Opening up two brand spanking new macs every year (as I do), or futzing around with processor upgrades and motherboard upgrades?

[jaedreth]

You know, it's kinda late to turn back. With Apple turning to irregular yet more frequent releases, MacWorld NY is gonna suck even without the CreativePro *********.

Maybe one new product released in January each year.

Apple doesn't do timelines well. Apple doesn't pre-announce like everyone else.

In order for Apple to keep their new strategy of more frequent updates, Apple would have to start pre-announcing things to make MacWorld even worth attending, let alone the glory of the past years.

Now, if Apple used MacWorld NY to announce *new* products, as in, not revisions... New pieces of software, new digital devices, a new type of computer/mac, and planned for having *something* brand new every year for MWNY, and as well as announcing all the revs that just happen to be ready in time to announce (if not ship), as well as go over the G5 timeline, give us a roadmap goshdarnit, then MWNY could be decent.

But that is a big IF.

Jaedreth

[Farside161]

Originally posted by Neotronik
I'm not happy about Steve dissing Macworld NYC. Therefore I missed it too. Alot of people missed it. I bought my first mac because of Macworld 2001. The atmosphere was incredible and it was my first time seeing Steve and his keynote. I'm in the market for a new Mac this year; I ordered a dual 2ghz g5 but I may cancel; October is way off and the announcement of getting to 3ghz by next year has already been made. I may go for an amd 64 as it will be available soon and I will wait for apple to go to 3ghz. Again; If i'm forced to wait an the amd 64 comes out; Adios Apple. Adios Macworld too. The aura of the mac has worn thin on me. Steve Jobs has worn thin on me. Forcing hardware on you thatj outdates itself 3 - 6 months with no upgrade path is so big brother to me. No processor upgrades? Have to go to third parties; that stinks!!!! Forcing and OS down your throat isn't attractive either. I do audio; still waiting for good audio units. Thanks for abandoning os9 Steve. **** the other platform allows you to go all the way back to DOS; that's insane. (Hey don't kill me; Yeah; dos sucks and so did windows until 98SE) I think AMD is on the money; they are doing all the right things; I can buy an AMD now upgrade the motherboard if necessary and processor in a year and not have to spend 3000 dollars to do so. Why does that seem so much more appealing to me? Oh Yah; it makes alot of sense! it puts me back in control of things and gives me choices. I'm more comfortable with that.
what he ment was that in 12 months they whould be a 3 GHZ, not by next calendar year

[arnette]

Originally posted by Neotronik
No processor upgrades? Have to go to third parties; that stinks!!!! Forcing and OS down your throat isn't attractive either. I do audio; still waiting for good audio units. Thanks for abandoning os9 Steve. **** the other platform allows you to go all the way back to DOS; that's insane. (Hey don't kill me; Yeah; dos sucks and so did windows until 98SE) I think AMD is on the money; they are doing all the right things;

Ha! I laugh at you. What did you expect Apple products to be like??? It's been like this from the beginning. You got on the wrong boat, methinks.

[bokdol]

Originally posted by arnette
Ha! I laugh at you. What did you expect Apple products to be like??? It's been like this from the beginning. You got on the wrong boat, methinks.


he may have got on the wrong boat but he does have a point. with g5 on the way the cost for g4 upgrade are still way high... just think a 1.4 ghz upgrade is still about $600. a whole emac can be bought for as much... edu price... but none the less bought for that price.... amd and pentium procs csot at most 300 and that is for the best brand fastest model. for me to get on a mac i get a 800 mhz g4...... ugrade.... wow now thats fast.....:rolleyes:


well i am trying not to complain but i am trying to figure out if i shold upgrade my machine or not.... the reason i got a desktop machine was the possiblity of up gradeing but now i am sort of distrought buy the options i have. for double the price of a high end upgrade i can get a new mdd g4... what to do????

[bignumbers]

The MacWorld show in NYC is dead. There's no way to have the vendors and attendees return to their former numbers next year. Half the people/vendors missed the show, and most who came (including me) hated it. It's the fault of Apple/IDG game-playing moreso than NYC's costs, although many vendors (Macromedia, Adobe, etc) dropped out in prior years due to cost.

I'll go anywhere on the East Coast that has a good MacWorld. But there's no chance of a good NYC show again. The only valid choices are to move, or to cancel the show altogether. Since everything is organized (except for Steve's ego), they should give Boston a shot.

But there's no chance of another great MacWorld/NYC. We'd sooner see Gigli II get rave reviews.

[aryeh]

Went to MacWorld NYC & was very disappointed. BORING to say the least. And no new powerbooks! The 15" is ancient in my books.

I do pro audio & need a powerful pro portable.

The G4 portable line is supposed to be this.
HOWEVER, no level 3 cache in 12" (my first pick due to size; will hook up to second montior in studio). Level 3 is needed in these ancient G4's for audio/soft synth plug ins. The G5 doesn't need the level 3 from what I hear.

17" too big.
15" too out of date.
Besides, from what I hear, the 15" is real world faster than the 17". Go figure.

My philosophy: One "should" be able to buy any laptop in the pro line according to the size of monitor wanted (in other words, how portable one needs to be) and not according to the features required. Make the same features available across the board.

DOES ONE HAVE TO BUY THE BIGGEST, BULKIEST MACHINE IN ORDER TO GET THE MOST POWER? Foolish marketing in my books.

Waiting for the update. I need a new machine for portable pro audio.
Next machine is to take me through to the G5 portable (unless of course the next machine is this baby); however, if next machine aint much, might go used until the G5 is out.

Aryeh
www.Har-Even.com

Apple user since 1987.


:o

[bastardx]

Originally posted by bokdol
amd and pentium procs csot at most 300 and that is for the best brand fastest model.
Um, I somehow doubt that you can pay only 300 for the top of the line in AMD and Intel, lets, see here, according to newegg.com... Intel P4 3.2 GHz, 660 for an OEM chip, not quite 300... And that is the fastest model. And a Barton 3200+ costs 446 for an OEM chip, so for both of those chips, you still have to buy a Heatsink/Fan unit in order to run it without it shutting down at boot, or frying. I mean, yes, those upgrades are easy to do for desktops, that would probably be why I have a PC tower, but in my opinion, I think that apple makes the best notebooks, reguardless of when they were last released.

[Mosco]

Originally posted by Neotronik
I'm not happy about Steve dissing Macworld NYC. Therefore I missed it too. Alot of people missed it. I bought my first mac because of Macworld 2001. The atmosphere was incredible and it was my first time seeing Steve and his keynote. I'm in the market for a new Mac this year; I ordered a dual 2ghz g5 but I may cancel; October is way off and the announcement of getting to 3ghz by next year has already been made. I may go for an amd 64 as it will be available soon and I will wait for apple to go to 3ghz. Again; If i'm forced to wait an the amd 64 comes out; Adios Apple. Adios Macworld too. The aura of the mac has worn thin on me. Steve Jobs has worn thin on me. Forcing hardware on you thatj outdates itself 3 - 6 months with no upgrade path is so big brother to me. No processor upgrades? Have to go to third parties; that stinks!!!! Forcing and OS down your throat isn't attractive either. I do audio; still waiting for good audio units. Thanks for abandoning os9 Steve. **** the other platform allows you to go all the way back to DOS; that's insane. (Hey don't kill me; Yeah; dos sucks and so did windows until 98SE) I think AMD is on the money; they are doing all the right things; I can buy an AMD now upgrade the motherboard if necessary and processor in a year and not have to spend 3000 dollars to do so. Why does that seem so much more appealing to me? Oh Yah; it makes alot of sense! it puts me back in control of things and gives me choices. I'm more comfortable with that.

AMD is doing everything right except making money. So while you might save money, its not helping AMD any. And you really wont be able to upgrade the AMD that much. the Athlon XP is done, no more upgrades the Athlon64 is coming out in 2 months and uses a different socket. I think i read something about a new duron that would take the place of the athlon, but who wants a duron?

And windows xp doesn't have dos.

[Jerry Spoon]

Originally posted by jaedreth
Apple doesn't do timelines well. Apple doesn't pre-announce like everyone else.


You must have typed this response on your G5 running osX.3

[jaedreth]

I said well, not at all.

What is it a crime to have an opinion here these days?

Jaedreth

[eclipse525]

Actually...I'm from NY and don't mind MacWorld being here but I'd like to see it held in different parts of the country. In a way, it would really make it special when it comes around to your area. As far as special announcements....how many special announcements can you possible have that are of significance. Limited platform with limited market share but HUGE potentional. Hmmm. What's the anwser?



~e

[eatme8888]

Who cares? I don't care where or if a Mac show is in Boston. There are very few people who live in Boston compared to the rest of the World Wide Web, and the rest of us couldn't care less about Boston.

[bokdol]

Originally posted by bastardx
Um, I somehow doubt that you can pay only 300 for the top of the line in AMD and Intel, lets, see here, according to newegg.com... Intel P4 3.2 GHz, 660 for an OEM chip, not quite 300... And that is the fastest model. And a Barton 3200+ costs 446 for an OEM chip, so for both of those chips, you still have to buy a Heatsink/Fan unit in order to run it without it shutting down at boot, or frying. I mean, yes, those upgrades are easy to do for desktops, that would probably be why I have a PC tower, but in my opinion, I think that apple makes the best notebooks, reguardless of when they were last released.

ok not top of the line (my mistake for comparing the top of the line i was meaning equal) but we cant compare the top of the line amd and p4 to the 1.4 g4..... the 1.4 g4 is closer to the mid level. lets say about 2.6 ghz p4 hell even a 2.8. a 2.8 well cost $263 and for the same price i can get a amd athlon xp 3000. i am not complaining about apple not making great computers, i am complaing about the upgrade manufactures charging an arm and a leg for upgrades. ag4 upgrade not g5 and not even the duals.... those well cost a couple hundred more....

[d00d]

I guess I won't be going to Macworld then. I was hoping to when it came to Boston, but I won't go to New York because it's just too expensive. Boston is a great city with character and history. Accommodations are significantly less costly than New York, which will allow for more people to come visit to see the expo. Additionally, more tech companies reside in Boston. Just because New York has more residents doesn't mean its a more appropriate venue for the expo.

[eclipse525]

First....before I start, if you've read my last post you'll see where I stand. Now, with that said...I'm sure Boston is a wonderful city and without a doubt a great history but it's not a pissing contest of who has the greatest city. New York, just like San Francisco most likely were pick because they are major hubs. Not to mention the Corporate/Industry and people density. All that adds up to more dollars. It's all about the might dollar. No more no less. Sad but true. I'd like to throw in the word "integrity" somewhere in this thread but not sure where it'll find in. Hmmmm........


~e

[vitaboy]

Perhaps the reason why NY makes more sense as a venue for MacWorld is that is one of the centers of the publishing and advertising industry. Since Apple still caters to and is dependent on these "creative professionals," it seems to make more strategic sense to have MacWorld in NY rather than Boston. Yeah, Boston has a lot of tech companies, but you have MacWorld SF for that.

It sucks that events have happened the way they did - IDG should have never considered as move back to Boston in the first place, as MacWorld NY had been gaining a lot of momentum (some 60,000 attendees before this year's "Creative Pro" expo). And being in the city where you have the studio headquarters of CNN, NBC, ABC, and CBS certainly made it easier for Apple to get a lot of free media coverage, a benefit which I think IDG didn't factor when they decided to move back to Boston. All the reasons cited by Charlie Greco is more about IDC pocketing more money for themselves rather than for the overall benefit of the Mac market.

[jaedreth]

Integrity fits in right in between "word" and "somewhere" just fine.

Jaedreth

[mstecker]

Trust me, Steve Jobs not attending the "MW creative pro" show in NY had everything to do with thumbing his nose at their attempt to move the show to Boston.

Think about it - had all of this not happened, don't you think that the G5 would have been announced at MWNY rather than the WWDC, held only a few weeks earlier?

If the show officially decides to stay in NYC, I'll bet my life that we see full Apple participation and a SJ keynote again.

And who says that they haven't introduced interesting stuff at MWNY?

[eclipse525]

Good point "VITA" but I have one more comment. I personally thought the whole "CreativePro" sponsership was STUPID. Now, being a Graphic Designer myself, it may sound strange me saying that BUT I really feel that Apple need to reach a broader range of the market, with ofcourse not neglecting the Creative/Publishing community. They need to intrench themselves in the business/corporate/scientific communities more and more. It's the only way to break that MS headlock they have on the industry. I know the issue is alot more complex than that but I think having a more general sponsership MacWorld will send a different message. I believe the Server arena might be there next big thing.

How's this...."Sybase MacWorld Expo" or "Oracle MacWorld Expo"...Hmmm.....



~e

[stompy]

Originally posted by Neotronik

Dude whether or not macworld stays in NYC or goes; doesn't matter to me anymore. After Steve not attending; it changed my mind about alot of things.
NYC needs macworld with or without steve because of it's economical status since 9-11.
Steve not attending angered alot of people and we simply responded by not attending.


Steve's not attending was most likely due to his feud with IDG. If you haven't followed the whole story, here's a summary:

--IDG announced that summer MacWorld will move back to Boston in 2004.

--Apple responded that if MW moves to Boston, Apple will not even have a booth.

--IDG issued a major press release, saying "Oh yeah?"

--Apple fired back, saying that their presence at 2003 MWNY will be de-emphasized.

--IDG responds with, "Well, we don't want you anyway. And Steve, I absolutely HATE your socks."

And so on, and so on. The result was this years "Name of the week" Expo. Apple wants to decide the location of the east coast expo, and Apple wants the show in NY. Apple seemed to let the events play out as they did to 'put IDG in its place.' Whether you agree with that tactic or not, it seems clear that Apple wanted more power to make expo decisions.

Don't take offense. If you want to continue having MacWorld in NY, I'd say Apple agrees with you. Apple felt a mediocre 2003 show was the price they'd have to pay.

[vitaboy]

Originally posted by eclipse525

How's this...."Sybase MacWorld Expo" or "Oracle MacWorld Expo"...Hmmm.....
~e

I definitely agree that Apple needs to start targeting other markets where the Mac has definite advantages, such as the scientific and engineering markets. But probably the best way for Apple to do this is by attending existing trade shows that are already out there for those industries. There is already an OracleWorld so the easiest thing for Apple to do is have an effective presence there rather than setting up their own, which would ostensibly attract only Oracle users who use Macs (a pretty small market at the moment).

In fact, Apple's been doing just that this year. They announced Final Cut Pro 4 at the national broadcasters conference and have had strong presences at education conferences. Seybold is coming up in September. I think by slowly increasing their presences at these highly vertical conferences, Apple gets most of the benefits of a specialized MacWorld without the cost.

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by mstecker
It all comes down to:

1) Macworld is nothing without Apple going in 100%

2) Apple wants it in NY

3) Apple was willing to walk if it wasn't in NY.

It will be in NY, and not this crappy "creative pro" nonsense either. I can't wait for another <real> MWNY.

Yeah really, I want a MacWorld New York like 2 years ago, even 1 years ago i would go for, but this sad, sad state of 'Creative Pro' was almost to much to bare.

I was one of the only MacRumors people to go, I think I was 1 of the 2 people who went... :(



Look, Apple Told the Major Companies to *not* go to their unless they really wanted to, when the economy is better (pray) next year Companies will afford to show off their products again, like before.


We all know creative pro was lame, but if Apple Goes Back to their Norm Next year they can erase a bad show from my memories.

[Neotronik]

well eclipse;
it's a done deal with me; Macworld NYC used to be huge; I can't tell you all of the friends that I've bumped into at Macworld and 2001 was my first. I bought my Ti-book right after the show; I was siked man. Attending the keynote was amazing. Seeing and hearing what was ahead really tuned me in to apple. I literally abandoned the wintel pc's. Audio became a very big problem in osx. The year after he killed os9 at macworld. I didn't enjoy that at all. I never invested in a powermac because of the bigger brother saying you have to buy a whole new mac to get the latest processor etc....
There was a problem with adobe at last years macworlds too I believe as well as macromedia. Hmmm; then steve doesn't attend this years macworld; that's alot of dissapointment.
He should have showed up and showed IDG that New York is the place to be. And show support to the East coast mac loyalists; new owners and future owners of mac products. This economy bites but hey; I was ready to buy a dual 2ghz g5. I don't want to support a company who's ceo all of a sudden decided not to attend one of the biggest conventions on the east coast for whatever his reasons were. Things like that will be the likely reason that apple will never equal or surpass the market share it's competitors now hold. Macworld is his stage to convince those would be switchers or new people to the market that Apple is different. I felt proud to be among apple bretheren; proud to be a part of something special; thinking; hey this company is different; the ceo is here and people started lining up yesterday to get to this keynote presentation. It was like steve telling the world this is what we have to say about apple and your platform and why ours is better and these are the people that are going to help us say it. With Steve not attending he showed how alike he was with the ms wintel pc bretheren.
I just wanted to share the impact that it had on me. I am seriously awaiting Amd's announcement and release date before I make the final decision on platform.
Sorry Steve; I'm thinking different now; but it's thinking differently about apple.

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by Neotronik

I just wanted to share the impact that it had on me. I am seriously awaiting Amd's announcement and release date before I make the final decision on platform.
Sorry Steve; I'm thinking different now; but it's thinking differently about apple.

Does AMD's CEO do a cool 'standing room only' keynote presentation on each coast every year? I agree that Steve's keynotes can be very exciting, but it doesn't seem like a very solid reason to choose one computing platform over another.

[Neotronik]

No; Amd doesnt' do the trade show thing and that's exactly why I state that steve showed how much he wasn't different than his wintel pc counterparts. (amd doesn't manufacture computers or software anyway)
It was that attitude and boldness on his part that drew me to macworld and I was inspired enough to try out a very expensive Ti-book.
My point is that if he choses to act like his pc bretheren than I'll go with the favorite in that category whom i happen to like; the inexpensive yet powerful alternative to an apple computer who seems to get praise from apple users as well;
AMD and MS and hi quality shelf pc parts that i can pick and chose and still come out cheaper.
I thought I wrote the post clearly when I stated how his not attending affected me and it showed his behavior to be like all the other cold corporations.

[reggiejax]

Looks like new leadership at IDG is having some real results. This Greco character just seems bitter that his ploy to end MWNY may not happen.

For Mac users up and down the East coast, let's hope that Apple and IDG patch things up. I think this is the first step.

[phillymjs]

Originally posted by Neotronik
Hmmm; then steve doesn't attend this years macworld; that's alot of dissapointment.
He should have showed up and showed IDG that New York is the place to be.

Actually, by NOT showing up he showed them that New York is the place to be. Apple have already said they will not be participating in MacWorld Boston. The New York pullout this year was to show IDG the kind of drawing power their show will have without Apple there. Since IDG is now reconsidering the Boston move, it looks like they got the message.

I've gone to every Expo in NYC since 1999 specifically to see the Stevenote, and this year I sat it out specifically because there was to be no Stevenote. Judging by the attendance numbers when compared with last year, I'd say a lot of other people were of like mind.

I've been to a Boston MacWorld (in '95), and it was not that much fun. I had to spend 8 hours to drive there from Philadelphia, I had to sit in Central Artery traffic for three hours in 95 degree heat, and I had to wait in large crowds for shuttle buses between the two expo halls. Oh, and I had to cough up for someplace to stay overnight. I know the Big Dig will be winding up and they've got a new convention center, and that will take care of two of my gripes, but going to Boston is still a disruption of my life, whereas New York is a long but pleasant day trip.

For New York, I get up at about 3AM, drive on empty roads to Princeton, and catch the first NJT train of the day into Penn Station. From there it's a nice walk to the Javits Center to get in the Stevenote line with the rest of The Faithful shortly before 6AM. See the Stevenote, wander around the show floor and meet friends from previous jobs for lunch, then at about 3:30PM I walk back to the train station and head home.

New York makes more sense than Boston for just that reason-- it's a lot easier to justify "day trip" to your bosses than "lodging required"-- though since 2001 I've made my annual jaunt to NYC part of a mini-vacation, and I pay for it all myself. Also, for the New York-based companies, a bigwig at MacWorld is only a subway or cab away from the office if anything Really Bad happens.

~MJS

[Neotronik]

Philly MJS:
That was a great post. I do hope that was the reason Steve didn't attend Macworld NYC. It would have been nice to go out with a bang though
Still in the thinking man's position as far as Macworld Nyc and my G5 that's on order.

[Ambrose Chapel]

then there's this:

''The early signals we're getting are not good as far as the show coming to Boston, and as far as the future of the East Coast show in general,'' said Jim Rooney, executive director of the Massachusetts Convention Center Authority. ''We'll regroup, though. It's one show, and there's a big marketplace out there.''

article (http://www.globe.com/dailyglobe2/222/metro/City_officials_fear_Apple_expo_may_not_return+.shtml)