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MacRumors
Aug 24, 2007, 09:14 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple appears to be accelerating seeds of Mac OS X Leopard to developers. After only 5 days since the last seed (9A500n) (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/20/apple-seeds-mac-os-x-10-5-leopard-build-9a500n/), Apple has issued a new version of Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard to developers.

The latest seed is listed at build 9A527 (client) and 9A528a (server), and reportedly list a number of less significant "known issues" compared to prior seeds.

MacScoop had previously reported (http://macscoop.com/articles/2007/08/23/mac-os-x-leopard-nearing-final-candidate) that they believe that Leopard was quickly approaching Final Candidate status targetted for late August/early September, after which there would be four to six weeks of "intensive testing" before reaching "Golden Master" status.

Meanwhile, Appleinsider notes (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/08/24/apple_to_pinpoint_new_testing_criteria_alongside_new_leopard_build.html) that Apple is requesting specific testing feedback, such as Time Machine, Mail's notes, 'To Do' items, and iChat file transfer functions.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/24/apple-seeds-mac-os-x-leopard-9a527-9a528a/)



SthrnCmfrtr
Aug 24, 2007, 09:18 PM
I wish they had this many versions back in the early months of this year. I like watching these things grow.

Anyone know if they have LEAP support back in? It wasn't in the WWDC build, I heard.

Wayfarer
Aug 24, 2007, 09:19 PM
And the credit goes to me for posting of these articles first! ;)

andyh2
Aug 24, 2007, 09:19 PM
Getting closer....Lets see what the magic is in this build.

Macula
Aug 24, 2007, 09:19 PM
I hope that the list of "known issues" includes some unfortunate visual elements, e.g. the tacky 3-D dock. Otherwise, Leopard news is always exciting!

yoyo5280
Aug 24, 2007, 09:22 PM
Tacky dock?

Wayfarer
Aug 24, 2007, 09:27 PM
Will the argument over the dock ever cease? :rolleyes:

As a member said on here once before, "Don't knock it before you use it."

yoyo5280
Aug 24, 2007, 09:29 PM
I did not know that this Dock argument ever existed....I like the dock :)...Moving on..

Wayfarer
Aug 24, 2007, 09:39 PM
I found more information:

From Think Secret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0708newipods.html):
Just days after pushing out build 9A500n as an update to developers who have installed 9A499, Apple has released an entirely new build of Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard: 9A527.

Sources say Apple has included a new intro movie to Leopard with the build, removing the Spotlight-like movie from 10.4 Tiger and instead providing a sci-fi space theme one. The default desktop picture is also space themed, making Time Machine's roll in Leopard's feature set apparent.

While sources say the new build feels considerably more stable and polished than previous one, notes accompanying the release point out about a dozen known limitations, including Cisco VPN not working, slow font validation, installation failures when SCSI dries are present, and Address Book syncing not functioning.

Good for the most part. Yay! :D

iyttahmimsyafu
Aug 24, 2007, 09:45 PM
I'm finally starting to believe that Leopard is going to be ready by October.
But why didn't they just release it as an update.
I don't feel like downloading 5 gb again :S

CJD2112
Aug 24, 2007, 09:49 PM
Will the argument over the dock ever cease? :rolleyes:

As a member said on here once before, "Don't knock it before you use it."

Seriously. I am so tired of hearing about how much the dock sucks, blah blah blah. As though the entire OS is dependent upon the graphical dock. Even so, I've grown to like it, however most of Leopards improvements aren't GUI based, but rather under the hood.

zioxide
Aug 24, 2007, 09:51 PM
did they get rid of the ugly tacky transparency on the menubar yet?

Dustman
Aug 24, 2007, 09:59 PM
did they get rid of the ugly tacky transparency on the menubar yet?

If you had ever used leopard or even read about it, you'd know that it can be set to opaque. I think i'll be the third person to say this, "Don't knock it before you use it."

iTeen
Aug 24, 2007, 10:03 PM
did they get rid of the ugly tacky transparency on the menubar yet? i think it looks awsome...:o

benspratling
Aug 24, 2007, 10:05 PM
did they get rid of the ugly tacky transparency on the menubar yet?

Let me be the first to say, "Don't accept it before you use it." The transparecy on the menu bar is tacky and ugly. ...but I like the 3D dock. More like... love it. It's what the dock was meant to be. :)

Rocketman
Aug 24, 2007, 10:07 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple appears to be accelerating seeds of Mac OS X Leopard to developers.

Apple is requesting specific testing feedback, such as Time Machine, ...


It sure would be handy if Time Machine did not eat all your files on initial release.

Rocketman

Time Machine feature request:

Save virtual machines with a "small" upgrade fee of VM software, save DOS files and apps in a DOS region, same with Apple II, Win 95, Apple OS 4,5,6, Apple OS 7,8. Apple OS9, Apple OS 10.0,1,2, Apple OS 10,3,4,5, NeXT, BeOS, DEC.

Sky Blue
Aug 24, 2007, 10:10 PM
new default desktop, no more grass? yay!

products7074740
Aug 24, 2007, 10:12 PM
Anyone know if users of the previous build could get this update through software update?

knelto
Aug 24, 2007, 10:23 PM
Anyone with access to this, pictures please? :D

pcguru83
Aug 24, 2007, 10:24 PM
It's getting close folks! Rapid developer seeds are a sure fire sign leading up to a Release Candidate, followed by the Gold Master.

I'm also glad to hear that the default wallpaper has been changed from that horrid grass monstrosity. Maybe Apple's listening to our input after all. :)

ghall
Aug 24, 2007, 10:24 PM
Anyone know if users of the previous build could get this update through software update?

From what I gathered, no.

008325
Aug 24, 2007, 10:34 PM
this update is for supporting new iMac ?

as we all know pervious version does not support new iMac

Taylor C
Aug 24, 2007, 10:51 PM
This is excellent news. I'm getting really excited about the final release. What's this new desktop picture? I'd love to see what it looks like compared to what we (until now) thought would ship as the default.

chasemac
Aug 24, 2007, 11:04 PM
Like trading jump shots with big brother. They better make it.:)

aLoC
Aug 24, 2007, 11:07 PM
*roar* The new kitty is stirring. :apple:

products7074740
Aug 24, 2007, 11:31 PM
From what I gathered, no.

from what sources did you gather?

AppleMatt389
Aug 24, 2007, 11:34 PM
new default desktop, no more grass? yay!

i dont get what was so bad about the grass in any case. i liked it so much ive used it as my desktop ever since WWDC. its got such nice, refreshing colours. in any case, a space themed one ought to be cool. pictures anyone?

TuffLuffJimmy
Aug 24, 2007, 11:40 PM
i dont get what was so bad about the grass in any case. i liked it so much ive used it as my desktop ever since WWDC. its got such nice, refreshing colours. in any case, a space themed one ought to be cool. pictures anyone?

Where did you get the background from?

iHerzeleid
Aug 24, 2007, 11:42 PM
The Size is 6.44 GB.

Known Limitations:
- Cisco VPN does not work in this seed. If you have it installed your system may become sluggish. To correct this, remove the Cisco VPN software from the StartupItems folder and restart.
- Font validation and installation are very slow in this seed. Users should turn off validation in the Font Book preferences.
- Installation will not succeed if your system has a SCSI PCI host adapter card and a connected SCSi drive. Power down your SCSI drive before installing the seed.
- Files copied using SMB to a Windows server may become corrupt. Copies from Windows to Mac OS X Leopard or from Leopard to another Mac OS X server work correctly.
- Sometimes AFP share points mount as Read-only.
- If your installations are failing on a busy network, unload the ALF.kext from the start of the installer: 1. Choose your install language. 2. Switch from the Installer to the Terminal. 3. Type "/sbin/kextunload /System/Library/Extensions/ALF.kext". 4.Quit Terminal and continue the install.
- Performing firmware updates will result in an error dialog upon restart. Despite the warning, firmware updates will install successfully. To suppress the dialog, open the Accounts preference and manually remove the updater from your login items.
- If you choose to migrate or perform an Archive and Install over an earlier Leopard system, your user-installed applications may not be copied to the new system.
- The Parallels Desktop installer sets the wrong permissions on /. You can change them back by typing "sudo chmod 1775 / && sudo chgrp admin /"
- If you use Archive & Install to install the seed or perform a user migration you may get a dialog asking for your password for SC helper.
- Address Book Syncing does not work in the seed. It's best to turn off syncing of contacts to .Mac.
- The MP4 AAC codec (in AudioCodecs.component) - API wapper codes have been completely re-factored. Please test your AAC applications for compatibility.
- Quartz Composer based iTunes visualizers are now in the build and should be tested. You can create your own Quartz Composer developer application and install it in ~/Library Compositions.


BTW YOU CANNOT UPDATE THIS USING SW UPDATE. Have a good day.

AppleMatt389
Aug 24, 2007, 11:44 PM
Where did you get the background from?

um flickr or something. u no..when it first came out ppl were scramlbing all over the net for it. it fools me into thinking i have leopard. :)

offwidafairies
Aug 24, 2007, 11:47 PM
*roar* The new kitty is stirring. :apple:

bring it on!

TuffLuffJimmy
Aug 25, 2007, 12:00 AM
um flickr or something. u no..when it first came out ppl were scramlbing all over the net for it. it fools me into thinking i have leopard. :)

hah, I know what you mean I've made my menu transparent. Now with the correct background I am nearly complete. Now about that dock....

AppleJustWorks
Aug 25, 2007, 12:05 AM
Notes I've observed so far:


Menu bar is now only slightly transparent. Primarily white based. Much better, readable.
Traffic Lights (Close, Minimize, Zoom) are different.
Seems much snappier.
The gradient on menu-selections is now the same selected-gradient you see in the sidebar of the Finder (and latest iTunes releases)

knelto
Aug 25, 2007, 12:07 AM
Notes I've observed so far:


Menu bar is now only slightly transparent. Primarily white based. Much better, readable.
Traffic Lights (Close, Minimize, Zoom) are different.
Seems much snappier.
The gradient on menu-selections is now the same selected-gradient you see in the sidebar of the Finder (and latest iTunes releases)


Awesome! Thanks for the news! Any way you could snap a few screenshots?

metallicaisgood
Aug 25, 2007, 12:12 AM
have the menu bars changed from the aqua style yet?

TuffLuffJimmy
Aug 25, 2007, 12:15 AM
Notes I've observed so far:



Traffic Lights (Close, Minimize, Zoom) are different.
Seems much snappier.


:eek: What do you mean they changed the traffic lights!? Did they finally fix the zoom button? Does it do the same thing with all applications?
AND it seems much snappier!? I'm buying leopard just for that.
Snap
snap
snap
snap
>+<

twoodcc
Aug 25, 2007, 12:17 AM
wow, it must be getting close to ready! man i'm tempted to pay for the ADC membership that gets the leopard beta.....cuz you get client and server (correct?)

yoyo5280
Aug 25, 2007, 12:28 AM
I CAN'T WAIT!!!! Will apple have an event to announce leopard is coming out or just do it like the iPhone??

AppleMatt389
Aug 25, 2007, 12:31 AM
hah, I know what you mean I've made my menu transparent. Now with the correct background I am nearly complete. Now about that dock....

hahah yes..the dock. u can actually download the Liger theme. and within it is a .pkg that sets a leopard style dock behind the normal dock. then by making ur dock transparent..it looks like Leopard. its all very complicated and doesnt run smoothly but it can be done. search it. :)

Wayfarer
Aug 25, 2007, 12:32 AM
Notes I've observed so far:


Menu bar is now only slightly transparent. Primarily white based. Much better, readable.
Traffic Lights (Close, Minimize, Zoom) are different.
Seems much snappier.
The gradient on menu-selections is now the same selected-gradient you see in the sidebar of the Finder (and latest iTunes releases)


Assuming this is true, me so very very happy. If the menu bar is indeed more usable in this build, then that should put in end to those "FTFM" naysayers. Not sure what you mean by the "different" traffic lights, but I suppose a fresh change would be nice after all these years. OH, and the system-wide use of that sexy, subtle gradient.... very tasteful! OH OH and teh snap snap! Gotta love teh snap snap. :D

I have a good feeling Apple knows its stuff. Seemingly small things can make a big difference.

BKKbill
Aug 25, 2007, 01:06 AM
Assuming this is true, me so very very happy. If the menu bar is indeed more usable in this build, then that should put in end to those "FTFM" naysayers. Not sure what you mean by the "different" traffic lights, but I suppose a fresh change would be nice after all these years. OH, and the system-wide use of that sexy, subtle gradient.... very tasteful! OH OH and teh snap snap! Gotta love teh snap snap. :D

I have a good feeling Apple knows its stuff. Seemingly small things can make a big difference.

Snap, snappy, snappier, snappiest anyway you say it it's all good. Always thought the grass was way too windowy. The time it is a passing.

TuffLuffJimmy
Aug 25, 2007, 01:20 AM
If this new build for leopard has a new background and an intro movie wouldn't it make sense to be the final build before it is put into production on DVD? And then we will have some updates on day one.

yoyo5280
Aug 25, 2007, 01:28 AM
If this new build for leopard has a new background and an intro movie wouldn't it make sense to be the final build before it is put into production on DVD? And then we will have some updates on day one.
Makes you wonder...

kungming2
Aug 25, 2007, 01:30 AM
Where did you get the background from?

Flickr link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rfischmann/547999170/in/set-72157600001100081/

yoyo5280
Aug 25, 2007, 01:33 AM
I like it but, it is to distracting... I need simpleness.

008325
Aug 25, 2007, 01:40 AM
does it support new iMac now?

AppleMatt389
Aug 25, 2007, 01:43 AM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rfischmann/565870194/in/set-72157600001100081/

i dno if this is the photo they use in the latest developer preview..coz this site is in spanish or something. but im thinking it is..and no one has posted pictures of the latest build yet. could this perhaps be it? what u all think?

knelto
Aug 25, 2007, 01:48 AM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rfischmann/565870194/in/set-72157600001100081/

i dno if this is the photo they use in the latest developer preview..coz this site is in spanish or something. but im thinking it is..and no one has posted pictures of the latest build yet. could this perhaps be it? what u all think?

Dude awesome! And I found out that's Portuguese, but in translating it seems to be legit, I'd say. Nice find!

vandlism
Aug 25, 2007, 01:49 AM
I wonder if they got the iChat video effects to work with the integrated Intel graphics chips yet. I think they got rid of it entirely in 9a500n.

kungming2
Aug 25, 2007, 01:51 AM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rfischmann/565870194/in/set-72157600001100081/

i dno if this is the photo they use in the latest developer preview..coz this site is in spanish or something. but im thinking it is..and no one has posted pictures of the latest build yet. could this perhaps be it? what u all think?

Except you'll notice it was uploaded in June 2007 - I think it's simply the background for Time Machine, but I could be wrong. I would have no complaints if they used this as the default. In fact, I really like it! :)

AppleMatt389
Aug 25, 2007, 01:55 AM
Except you'll notice it was uploaded in June 2007 - I think it's simply the background for Time Machine, but I could be wrong. I would have no complaints if they used this as the default. In fact, I really like it! :)

yeah i dno actually..it just seems to fit with the description of space themed. im hoping its the new one too!

ukp
Aug 25, 2007, 01:57 AM
That image is not the new background. The new one is more purple.

knelto
Aug 25, 2007, 01:57 AM
Except you'll notice it was uploaded in June 2007 - I think it's simply the background for Time Machine, but I could be wrong. I would have no complaints if they used this as the default. In fact, I really like it! :)

Another good catch... I'm almost thinking this isn't it, partially because if this is the Time Machine background and the desktop background, it will look weird when activating Time Machine and having the desktop suck down to reveal the same image in the back. Just my thoughts though, this could be it after all.

AppleMatt389
Aug 25, 2007, 02:00 AM
That image is not the new background. The new one is more purple.

do u have leopard build to know that its more purple? if so..can u please defy the NDA and upload pictures?

knelto
Aug 25, 2007, 02:01 AM
That image is not the new background. The new one is more purple.

Ahh, I'd love to see screenshots or something but if you're a dev I know the whole NDA thing makes that hard. Guess we'll have to wait until someone like Engadget posts something, everyone saves it, then Apple Legal pulls it but people keep using it...

ukp
Aug 25, 2007, 02:02 AM
do u have leopard build to know that its more purple? if so..can u please defy the NDA and upload pictures?

I have the build installed yes, but I cannot upload pictures sorry.

AppleMatt389
Aug 25, 2007, 02:03 AM
Another good catch... I'm almost thinking this isn't it, partially because if this is the Time Machine background and the desktop background, it will look weird when activating Time Machine and having the desktop suck down to reveal the same image in the back. Just my thoughts though, this could be it after all.

very good point..but even if this isnt the new pic..the new pic is still space themed. so it would still be similar in appearance to the time machine background. and the transition would still be a bit dodgy. u no what i mean?

heres to hoping someone breaks the NDA some time soon. :D

curmi
Aug 25, 2007, 02:05 AM
If there are icons on your desktop, you'll see that darker desktop background images that are fairly constant in contrast/brightness work best for trying to read (and scan over) icon text. This is why Tiger's background works so well, as did previous OS X releases - fairly constant darkish colour with only slight variations in an abstract way.

The grass background in previous Leopard builds was OK - but nowhere near as clear for reading text labels on icons as the Tiger background. Further, the water droplets look a little like the little blue lights in the new dock, adding further confusion. And finally, I think a default desktop should be something abstract rather than a seemingly random real life photo (what does wet grass have to do with anything?).

Now, if there really is a space background, it is interesting to see how this works. The one shown in that flikr account, as a background, works better that the green grass in terms of reading text on icons - though being so black means that the black shadows on text no longer show up on icons. The stars are going to look a lot like the little blue lights in the new dock once again though. I would say a space scene is a little more abstract than a close up of wet grass - I'd still prefer a more abstract background though. And a space theme is a little dorky - sort of like saying "hey, this OS is space-age!".

kungming2
Aug 25, 2007, 02:18 AM
I, for one was also hoping for a new abstract blue background, continuing the theme of having a different one throughout 10.0, 10.2, 10.3, and 10.4. I always thought it was pretty cool to be able to tell the version of the OS by the wallpaper. :rolleyes:

MacFly123
Aug 25, 2007, 02:22 AM
Where did you get the background from?

I love it too :)

vandlism
Aug 25, 2007, 02:22 AM
i love the fact that the dock's icon hasn't changed since the original mac os x public beta (maybe before, when the apple logo was in the middle of the menubar). also, that the dock divider is named abbey road...awesome stuff.

MacFly123
Aug 25, 2007, 02:26 AM
Notes I've observed so far:


Menu bar is now only slightly transparent. Primarily white based. Much better, readable.
Traffic Lights (Close, Minimize, Zoom) are different.
Seems much snappier.
The gradient on menu-selections is now the same selected-gradient you see in the sidebar of the Finder (and latest iTunes releases)


:( Are the traffic lights still red, yellow, and green??? I LOVE those about OS X, they better not take those away :mad: It kind of makes me mad, I know they are gunna take away the aqua buttons and scroll bars in the final builds too :(

MacFly123
Aug 25, 2007, 02:32 AM
OH, and the system-wide use of that sexy, subtle gradient.... very tasteful! OH OH and teh snap snap! Gotta love teh snap snap. :D

I have a good feeling Apple knows its stuff. Seemingly small things can make a big difference.

What I don't get is why Apple made a big emphasis about system wide conformity with the look of windows and no brushed metal and then they released iLife '08 with windows that don't match that theme... Specifically garage band and the other ones are much darker too like iMovie etc. Anybody else notice that???

curmi
Aug 25, 2007, 02:36 AM
What I don't get is why Apple made a big emphasis about system wide conformity with the look of windows and no brushed metal and then they released iLife '08 with windows that don't match that theme... Specifically garage band and the other ones are much darker too like iMovie etc. Anybody else notice that???

Yep. And iPhoto '08 has iTunes style scroll bars, where other Leopard apps don't have them. I suspect we are going to continue to see Apple making up the L&F as they go along, and annoying the crap out of everyone who likes consistency.

What would be really nice is if Apple released a new Human Interface Guidelines document for Leopard, and actually followed it.

MacFly123
Aug 25, 2007, 02:37 AM
Dude awesome! And I found out that's Portuguese, but in translating it seems to be legit, I'd say. Nice find!

Well I speak portuguese fluently cause I lived in Brasil for 2 years and that IS portuguese but the comment below the wallpaper says.... (translation) "It's from last year, but it's very good." So how do you interpret that? Sounds like its from WWDC to me.

ukp
Aug 25, 2007, 02:39 AM
:( Are the traffic lights still red, yellow, and green??? I LOVE those about OS X, they better not take those away :mad: It kind of makes me mad, I know they are gunna take away the aqua buttons and scroll bars in the final builds too :(

Yes, they are still the same old red yellow and green. Their behaviour doesn't appear to have changed except the colours are deeper now. You'll know what I mean when you finally see screenshots :)

Fusion
Aug 25, 2007, 02:40 AM
Click on the Smiley Face when you get there. (http://tinyurl.com/29m7c2)

Saz
Aug 25, 2007, 02:46 AM
Click on the Smiley Face when you get there. (http://tinyurl.com/29m7c2)

that looks awesome..
thank you

MacFly123
Aug 25, 2007, 02:47 AM
Yep. And iPhoto '08 has iTunes style scroll bars, where other Leopard apps don't have them. I suspect we are going to continue to see Apple making up the L&F as they go along, and annoying the crap out of everyone who likes consistency.

What would be really nice is if Apple released a new Human Interface Guidelines document for Leopard, and actually followed it.

I promise you that in the final builds you will see all the aqua scroll bars and buttons and other things take the iTunes and iPhone look... Mark my words... You can already see that they are in the conversion process!

AppleMatt389
Aug 25, 2007, 02:48 AM
Click on the Smiley Face when you get there. (http://tinyurl.com/29m7c2)

is that actually it..or is it jsut a picture ur using. coz i noticed ur dock icons are customised.

if this in the new pic..im not so sure i like it.

ukp
Aug 25, 2007, 02:50 AM
is that actually it..or is it jsut a picture ur using. coz i noticed ur dock icons are customised.

if this in the new pic..im not so sure i like it.

That is the new background. Looks nicer when actually using it.

MacFly123
Aug 25, 2007, 02:51 AM
Click on the Smiley Face when you get there. (http://tinyurl.com/29m7c2)

Yes that is really cool, but that is not the wallpaper from this build of Leopard they are talking about is it? That screen shot looked like Tiger to me... rounded menu bar corners, black triangle open apps indicators, etc.... Did you get it from this new build of Leopard and just put it on your Tiger machine?

br-
Aug 25, 2007, 03:18 AM
Yes that is really cool, but that is not the wallpaper from this build of Leopard they are talking about is it? That screen shot looked like Tiger to me...
He obviously took the new wallpaper from 9A527 and applied it to his desktop on 10.4.

I think it looks pretty great. It's also makes reading icon labels easier compared to the wallpaper from WWDC.

curmi
Aug 25, 2007, 03:25 AM
Much easier to read icon text with that new image than the wet grass. It is also fairly abstract looking.

I have a feeling though that the final release will go back to wet grass, since Steve seemed really proud of it at WWDC - even though everyone laughed when he showed them. Unless the laughter actually made him feel bad, and he ordered a new default. :)

TheSpaz
Aug 25, 2007, 03:31 AM
Much easier to read icon text with that new image than the wet grass. It is also fairly abstract looking.

I have a feeling though that the final release will go back to wet grass, since Steve seemed really proud of it at WWDC - even though everyone laughed when he showed them. Unless the laughter actually made him feel bad, and he ordered a new default. :)

I think the default grass picture looks very amateur and too distracting of a photo to use as a desktop. It will more than likely be added to the nature desktop pictures with the default as the space desktop. I really like how the space one looks... that's wicked badass and it's not distracting... it's just right.

Project
Aug 25, 2007, 03:46 AM
What I don't get is why Apple made a big emphasis about system wide conformity with the look of windows and no brushed metal and then they released iLife '08 with windows that don't match that theme... Specifically garage band and the other ones are much darker too like iMovie etc. Anybody else notice that???


Does it matter? They conform in that for the most part window behaviour is consistent. The visuality of the window isnt a real problem. In fact, its a good thing in that it differentiates the application in éxpose and Spaces

SiliconAddict
Aug 25, 2007, 04:07 AM
Psst. Apple. Small tip. If you want feedback you could get a heck of a lot more input by opening up a release candidate to the lowly fanbase who would test the living crap out of 10.5. Heck even if it was another 5K you could get way more overall feedback but hey. What better way to say your OS is ready then to release a major update within 3 months of launch which I can bet they will do.
PS- Leave MS out of this. We all know MS faults. This is purely an Apple pet peeve of mine. Apple OS's could be a heck of a lot more stable out of the box if they would release "Release Candidate" builds to Apple Enthusiasts. No one is going to test the crap out of it more then us.

MacFly123
Aug 25, 2007, 04:09 AM
He obviously took the new wallpaper from 9A527 and applied it to his desktop on 10.4.

I think it looks pretty great. It's also makes reading icon labels easier compared to the wallpaper from WWDC.

Ok so maybe I shouldn't have asked... I assumed that, but if you noticed like 3 other people asked too :rolleyes:

I think it is really cool, BUT, I don't think it gives enough contrast between the Time Machine background. It kind of takes the wow factor away.... Look what my Mac can do..... Ok I'm in space, but if I click this button the space falls down and......... TUH DUH I'm still in space lol... WOW :rolleyes:

I think they should make a new blue abstract like they have for all other versions. And yes I hate Vista, but better yet, make it animated :) Sorry, but i think it would be cool :D

MacFly123
Aug 25, 2007, 04:12 AM
I think the default grass picture looks very amateur and too distracting of a photo to use as a desktop. It will more than likely be added to the nature desktop pictures with the default as the space desktop. I really like how the space one looks... that's wicked badass and it's not distracting... it's just right.

LOL I just think it is funny that calm green grass is distracting to you but not a massive blaring bright nebula lol

Don't get me wrong, I think it is cool, but its all personal opinion here, I don't think it is right to be the default wallpaper. Like i said before, it doesn't contrast enough with Time Machine.

messedkid
Aug 25, 2007, 04:12 AM
I had a dream once. I had just installed leopard..and a real leopard jumped out the screen and ate me :(



Real happy about these seeds. Definatly believing that it will be ready by october. Cant wait :D

Project
Aug 25, 2007, 04:13 AM
Psst. Apple. Small tip. If you want feedback you could get a heck of a lot more input by opening up a release candidate to the lowly fanbase who would test the living crap out of 10.5. Heck even if it was another 5K you could get way more overall feedback but hey. What better way to say your OS is ready then to release a major update within 3 months of launch which I can bet they will do.
PS- Leave MS out of this. We all know MS faults. This is purely an Apple pet peeve of mine. Apple OS's could be a heck of a lot more stable out of the box if they would release "Release Candidate" builds to Apple Enthusiasts. No one is going to test the crap out of it more then us.

They already do have a fanbase beta feedback program. It costs just $129 to join and is available at all Apple stores at the end of October. :D

MacFly123
Aug 25, 2007, 04:14 AM
Does it matter? They conform in that for the most part window behaviour is consistent. The visuality of the window isnt a real problem. In fact, its a good thing in that it differentiates the application in éxpose and Spaces

I understand what you are saying, but that doesn't really sound like what Steve Jobs said during his keynote :D Everything is just going to look like iTunes now anyway lol!

thefunkymunky
Aug 25, 2007, 04:15 AM
Can someone confirm whether Leopard has DLNA/UPNP support built-in?

Project
Aug 25, 2007, 04:20 AM
I understand what you are saying, but that doesn't really sound like what Steve Jobs said during his keynote :D Everything is just going to look like iTunes now anyway lol!

Well they almost all work like iTunes with the source pane, collapsible sections, unified toolbar etc. I thought Jobs focuses specifically on the Finder when he said that. But I see nothing wrong with distinct visual cues for each application; woodgrain on Garageband, Apertureisation of iMovie and so on.

However, for things like System Preferences and general OS windows, they all look the same. This is a good thing.

BWhaler
Aug 25, 2007, 04:44 AM
Notes I've observed so far:


Menu bar is now only slightly transparent. Primarily white based. Much better, readable.
Traffic Lights (Close, Minimize, Zoom) are different.
Seems much snappier.
The gradient on menu-selections is now the same selected-gradient you see in the sidebar of the Finder (and latest iTunes releases)


This is the first good news I have read about Leopard since pre-WWDC. (WWDC was a major let down for me.)

I still feel like Leopard is one, maybe two, great innovations short. But as long as it is faster, not buggy, I think the current features are an OK upgrade.

I am confused, however, about why 10.5 took so long to come. It seems to be an anemic upgrade overall. Perhaps iPhone and the big secret project took/are taking up a ton of resources...

Manic Mouse
Aug 25, 2007, 06:00 AM
I can feel Leopard getting close... :D

MartinAyla
Aug 25, 2007, 06:01 AM
Please, anynone...

Does the new build work on the new iMac aluminum's?

The other builds don't.

Stridder44
Aug 25, 2007, 06:04 AM
I had a dream once. I had just installed leopard..and a real leopard jumped out the screen and ate me :(



I don't get it.


Anyway, good to hear things are moving along in Leopard.

drayon
Aug 25, 2007, 06:19 AM
I promise you that in the final builds you will see all the aqua scroll bars and buttons and other things take the iTunes and iPhone look... Mark my words... You can already see that they are in the conversion process!

I wont be buying Leopard if that is the case. I hate the iTunes Scroll bars they look like a 2 year old designed them something M$ would dish out. Besides that no Quartz 2D Extreme and Resolution Independence = no sale, not to mention no more input managers so the loss of automatic file transfer acceptance via Chax in iChat is a deal breaker. There is basically nothing really Leopard offers me anyways which i can't achieve with a 3rd party app. Apple should just change the black cursor to a white windows cursor like all the other windows rubbish leopard seems to be copying.

ppnkg
Aug 25, 2007, 06:20 AM
They already do have a fanbase beta feedback program. It costs just $129 to join and is available at all Apple stores at the end of October. :D

so true.

Simmerl
Aug 25, 2007, 06:48 AM
I wont be buying Leopard if that is the case. I hate the iTunes Scroll bars they look like a 2 year old designed them something M$ would dish out.
(...)
Apple should just change the black cursor to a white windows cursor like all the other windows rubbish leopard seems to be copying.

Are color and transparency of scrollbars, menubar and dock the only things we discuss on the boards?

Analog Kid
Aug 25, 2007, 06:50 AM
I am confused, however, about why 10.5 took so long to come. It seems to be an anemic upgrade overall. Perhaps iPhone and the big secret project took/are taking up a ton of resources...
I don't have access to Leopard, but a lot of the work tends to be to the OS itself, not just the GUI. Most of what gets highlighted in the keynotes is really just application development-- iChat isn't really part of the OS, it's a packaged app, as is Safari, Mail, etc.

We do know that the frameworks got a work over (Core Animation, for example) and there were rumors of major work being done on Quicktime. The average user will never know that the Quicktime API changed, but those kinds of changes do make a difference.

Project
Aug 25, 2007, 06:56 AM
Are color and transparency of scrollbars, menubar and dock the only things we discuss on the boards?

Its hilarious man, it really is. People arent paying for Leopard because the scrollbars are not lickable and the dock is 3D.

MacsAttack
Aug 25, 2007, 07:35 AM
They already do have a fanbase beta feedback program. It costs just $129 to join and is available at all Apple stores at the end of October. :D

As anyone who works in software developemnt will tell you (to paraphrase) - no software survives contact with the enemy... eeerrr... end user.

Are there going to be bugs in the released version of Leopard? Yes. The only question is whether they will be "show-stoppers" on a per-user basis. 10.5.0 will be followed by 10.5.1 (which will fix some "last minute" things that did not make it into the gold master). 10.5.2 will (hopefully) fix most of the issues that come to light when Leopard "goes live".

A cautious user will of course continue to use Tiger 10.4.11 (or 10.4.12?) until Leopard's replacment is released - and then upgrade to Leopard 10.5.14 (or whatever).

DHagan4755
Aug 25, 2007, 07:51 AM
If a picture of space is the new default desktop picture, is that image also the default background at the login window, or is that still the blue abstract pattern? Is the "Welcome to Mac OS X" window at startup still missing?

anthonyb
Aug 25, 2007, 08:37 AM
Click on the Smiley Face when you get there. (http://tinyurl.com/29m7c2)

I cant get this link to work. Does anyone else know where i can find this? :confused:

Nightkrawler
Aug 25, 2007, 08:44 AM
http://bayimg.com/FAgaeAabf
found at bayimg :)

Lesser Evets
Aug 25, 2007, 09:00 AM
Seriously. I am so tired of hearing about how much the dock sucks, blah blah blah. As though the entire OS is dependent upon the graphical dock.

Serious. Big f'n whoop - it will grow on you. If it functions and isn't obtrusive it will be fine. All this transparent quibbling is esoteric trivia.

I am more curious about the function. Hoping the cover flow type stuff is keen, and Boot Camp is nice and functional, personally.

ProFont
Aug 25, 2007, 09:04 AM
Hoping [...] Boot Camp is nice and functional, personally.
What more do you expect from Boot Camp beyond updated drivers and various bugfixes?

Macula
Aug 25, 2007, 09:07 AM
Breaking news: The new aluminum and glass iMac will not be supported in Leopard.

Markus1982
Aug 25, 2007, 09:28 AM
Any Screenshots?
Nobody?
It's about time. So many ppl seem to have it already and this seems to have the most visual changes since wwdc...

come on, plz... post screenshots someone :o:):apple:

projectle
Aug 25, 2007, 09:30 AM
Calm down!

It was released 12 hours ago!

Remember, not everyone has Gigabit WAN links.
It does take some time for people to get their copies downloaded.

DaBrain
Aug 25, 2007, 09:31 AM
I did not know that this Dock argument ever existed....I like the dock :)...Moving on..

I also really like the 3D appearance of the dock verses the flat look of Tigers dock. Although IM very content with Tiger too!

Bring it on Apple!

FJ218700
Aug 25, 2007, 09:31 AM
Any Screenshots?
Nobody?
It's about time. So many ppl seem to have it already and this seems to have the most visual changes since wwdc...

come on, plz... post screenshots someone :o:):apple:

Looks like most of the developers on here are adhering to their NDAs.

Good. I want to be surprised come October.

CJD2112
Aug 25, 2007, 09:38 AM
Anyone know if users of the previous build could get this update through software update?

Nope, I tried but it seems this one is a fresh seed...

Markus1982
Aug 25, 2007, 09:38 AM
Remember, not everyone has Gigabit WAN links.
It does take some time for people to get their copies downloaded.What? :confused:
Maybe u live in the us?? Sometimes i think high speed internet is much more common in europe...

guzhogi
Aug 25, 2007, 09:58 AM
What? :confused:
Maybe u live in the us?? Sometimes i think high speed internet is much more common in europe...

I have high speed internet @ home (I live in the US). It's a 6 Mbps download speed at best from comcast and it's taking more than 2 hours to download. So when you add in burning it to DVD & actually installing it, that's probably 4 hours at least.

Edit: now it's going to take 4.5 hours just to download.

CJD2112
Aug 25, 2007, 09:58 AM
Are color and transparency of scrollbars, menubar and dock the only things we discuss on the boards?

Apparently no one else gets that the graphical user interface isn't the major issue with Leopard :rolleyes:, kind of funny as there are numerous major updates that no one else is discussing.

vandlism
Aug 25, 2007, 10:08 AM
What more do you expect from Boot Camp beyond updated drivers and various bugfixes?

Fast user switching into Windows on Boot Camp would be nice. That way it doesn't require a reboot, but simply a wake from sleep/hibernation.

Markus1982
Aug 25, 2007, 10:14 AM
Apparently no one else gets that the graphical user interface isn't the major issue with Leopard :rolleyes:, kind of funny as there are numerous major updates that no one else is discussing.
1) The UI is a major issue, because leopard is not exactly beautiful.
Theres a lot of hope this changes
2) I'm very interested in the changes in the new build. If you have some info it'd be nice to share it.

TheSpaz
Aug 25, 2007, 10:15 AM
Apparently no one else gets that the graphical user interface isn't the major issue with Leopard :rolleyes:, kind of funny as there are numerous major updates that no one else is discussing.

Umm... GUI is very important. Apple is known to be simple and stylish and when the interface isn't like that... people get mad. It's something you have to sit and look at all day so we want it to look nice. GUI is all part of the overall experience and I can see someone not wanting to upgrade because they do not like the GUI. It's all part of the entire user experience and if you can't accept that, then that's pretty lame.

TheSpaz
Aug 25, 2007, 10:15 AM
I had a dream once. I had just installed leopard..and a real leopard jumped out the screen and ate me :(



Real happy about these seeds. Definatly believing that it will be ready by october. Cant wait :D

I LISTEN TO LOTS AND LOT OF SKA!

akac
Aug 25, 2007, 10:26 AM
Umm... GUI is very important. Apple is known to be simple and stylish and when the interface isn't like that... people get mad. It's something you have to sit and look at all day so we want it to look nice. GUI is all part of the overall experience and I can see someone not wanting to upgrade because they do not like the GUI. It's all part of the entire user experience and if you can't accept that, then that's pretty lame.

Nobody is saying the GUI is unimportant. What some of us are saying is that the GUI changes in Leopard are fairly minor - more polish and glitz on top of the already great UI we have in Tiger.

Leopard is far more about what's under the skin than the spots on it. You're going to find a ton more apps making Leopard the minimum OS because of the huge dramatic improvements to the OS that app devs just won't be able to live without.

Markus1982
Aug 25, 2007, 10:31 AM
"What some of us are saying is that the GUI changes in Leopard are fairly minor"

Unfortunately those minor changes are highly controversial, like the new dock, menu-bar, much darker and dull appearence, dull new folders...

Some things are really bad changes, like those horrible blue dots in the dock.

CJD2112
Aug 25, 2007, 10:37 AM
Nobody is saying the GUI is unimportant. What some of us are saying is that the GUI changes in Leopard are fairly minor - more polish and glitz on top of the already great UI we have in Tiger.

Leopard is far more about what's under the skin than the spots on it. You're going to find a ton more apps making Leopard the minimum OS because of the huge dramatic improvements to the OS that app devs just won't be able to live without.

Thank you, you saved me the effort in typing... further, it seems a lot of the "newbie" members of Macrumors and new Mac owners are the ones that complain about the new UI. Interesting...

Egomaniac
Aug 25, 2007, 10:40 AM
1) The UI is a major issue, because leopard is not exactly beautiful.
Theres a lot of hope this changes
2) I'm very interested in the changes in the new build. If you have some info it'd be nice to share it.

I'm typing this from the new seed. First, Leopard is gorgeous. Not sure why you would think otherwise, but the UI is much more attractive and consistent.

I had mixed feelings about the transparent menu bar in the last two seeds, but the slight tweaks in this seed make all the difference. It's more opaque and blurs the underlying image more, so it looks good against everything. I've got my background set to change randomly every minute, with about a hundred different images to choose from, and they all look nice with it. You'll like it.

Second, the UI changes are such a tiny thing compared to the rest of Leopard that it's amusing to see so much time spent discussing it. Leopard is not about the new UI. It's got hundreds upon hundreds of small improvements that individually may not sound all that exciting, but all together make for a huge leap forward.

After using Leopard, going back to Tiger is like fingernails on a chalkboard. And I loved Tiger.

I don't want to break my NDA in a big way, so I'll just add one more thing. Leopard is fast. Impossibly fast compared to Tiger, and it makes Vista seem like it is running in slow motion. Spotlight is really instant now, to the point that I uninstalled QuickSilver. If you've used QuickSilver, hopefully you understand what a big deal that is.

For reference, my Leopard machine is a first-gen MacBook -- the lowest configuration, but bumped to 1GB RAM. My Tiger machine is a 2.66GHz Mac Pro with 3GB RAM. And the MacBook is snappier.

akac
Aug 25, 2007, 10:42 AM
"What some of us are saying is that the GUI changes in Leopard are fairly minor"

Unfortunately those minor changes are highly controversial, like the new dock, menu-bar, much darker and dull appearence, dull new folders...

Some things are really bad changes, like those horrible blue dots in the dock.

As others have said, don't knock them until you try them. Screenshots rarely tell the whole story. Seems to be a common refrain. Think about why.

MacsRgr8
Aug 25, 2007, 10:44 AM
... further, it seems a lot of the "newbie" members of Macrumors and new Mac owners are the ones that complain about the new UI. Interesting...

Hmmm.. so that inclines that switchers also might not like the new GUI... ;)

CJD2112
Aug 25, 2007, 10:44 AM
"What some of us are saying is that the GUI changes in Leopard are fairly minor"

Unfortunately those minor changes are highly controversial, like the new dock, menu-bar, much darker and dull appearence, dull new folders...

Some things are really bad changes, like those horrible blue dots in the dock.

Personally, I've used every Leopard build since the first beta, and I've really grown to like the new dock and Menu bar. I can tell you with little doubt the reasoning behind the changes, it increases desktop space and/or the appearance of more desktop real estate. The dock and menu bar are less distracting, especially when using other programs such as Photoshop, that usually require a great deal of desktop space. The Tiger dock is much bigger with its square shape, no matter how much you shrink it down. The graphics in the Leopard dock are much slicker and less distracting, yet easy to access and recognize.

As for the darker comments, yeah, I do tend to agree the whole space concept is a bit much (lord, now I'M getting into the graphical user interface debate lol), and seems a bit dated. I wish they would stick to the basic format of pervious releases with the usual takes on older wallpapers.

HOWEVER, when is Apple going to allow the user to alter the interface in the same manner of Windows (don't get me wrong, I don't like Windows much). It would be nice to change the color scheme, transparency, etc as Windows allows through theme changes, instead of using a Mac third party application such as Window Shade, etc. from Unsanity...

CJD2112
Aug 25, 2007, 10:45 AM
Hmmm.. so that inclines that switchers also might not like the new GUI... ;)

Touché lol :p

Muzzway
Aug 25, 2007, 10:46 AM
I'm typing this from the new seed. First, Leopard is gorgeous. Not sure why you would think otherwise, but the UI is much more attractive and consistent.

I had mixed feelings about the transparent menu bar in the last two seeds, but the slight tweaks in this seed make all the difference. It's more opaque and blurs the underlying image more, so it looks good against everything. I've got my background set to change randomly every minute, with about a hundred different images to choose from, and they all look nice with it. You'll like it.

Second, the UI changes are such a tiny thing compared to the rest of Leopard that it's amusing to see so much time spent discussing it. Leopard is not about the new UI. It's got hundreds upon hundreds of small improvements that individually may not sound all that exciting, but all together make for a huge leap forward.

After using Leopard, going back to Tiger is like fingernails on a chalkboard. And I loved Tiger.

I don't want to break my NDA in a big way, so I'll just add one more thing. Leopard is fast. Impossibly fast compared to Tiger, and it makes Vista seem like it is running in slow motion. Spotlight is really instant now, to the point that I uninstalled QuickSilver. If you've used QuickSilver, hopefully you understand what a big deal that is.

For reference, my Leopard machine is a first-gen MacBook -- the lowest configuration, but bumped to 1GB RAM. My Tiger machine is a 2.66GHz Mac Pro with 3GB RAM. And the MacBook is snappier.

Great news. I hope we'll all find that to be true.

Wayfarer
Aug 25, 2007, 10:49 AM
Looks like most of the developers on here are adhering to their NDAs.

Good. I want to be surprised come October.

Ditto. As much as I want to see how Leopard looks and feels like, I'd rather be surprised. I don't understand all the buzz around "making your deskop look like Leopard NOW". Wouldn't that spoil the fun? :rolleyes:

CJD2112
Aug 25, 2007, 10:51 AM
Second, the UI changes are such a tiny thing compared to the rest of Leopard that it's amusing to see so much time spent discussing it. Leopard is not about the new UI. It's got hundreds upon hundreds of small improvements that individually may not sound all that exciting, but all together make for a huge leap forward.

After using Leopard, going back to Tiger is like fingernails on a chalkboard. And I loved Tiger.

I don't want to break my NDA in a big way, so I'll just add one more thing. Leopard is fast. Impossibly fast compared to Tiger, and it makes Vista seem like it is running in slow motion. Spotlight is really instant now, to the point that I uninstalled QuickSilver. If you've used QuickSilver, hopefully you understand what a big deal that is.

Couldn't agree more. I'm on the last beta version, haven't gotten the new release yet, and I have Tiger installed on another drive on my Mac Pro. I only use Tiger now if I'm updating my iPhone, iPod or using iLife '08 for any projects. I really like Leopard, the UI outshines Tiger, but beyond that the system is hella fast and much slicker.

I do have one question, why did Apple get rid of the "Answering Machine" option in iChat 4.0? It's not in any of the recent builds. I really liked it, and was hoping it was a conduit to a possible iChat video conferencing capability with the iPhone (recording a video away message on iChat was AWESOME). I also kept wondering if it would be a lead in for using the computer as an "all-in-one" system, maybe allowing phone lines to be connected somehow to the system, and using iChat as a home answering device. People call, get your computer to answer lol. Sounds a bit much, but think about the possibility. Apple is leaning towards using the computer for digital home entertainment systems with AppleTV and iTunes, now the iPhone for communications, the next step, home interfacing :D...

Markus1982
Aug 25, 2007, 10:58 AM
I'm typing this from the new seed. First, Leopard is gorgeous. Not sure why you would think otherwise, but the UI is much more attractive and consistent.

I had mixed feelings about the transparent menu bar in the last two seeds, but the slight tweaks in this seed make all the difference. It's more opaque and blurs the underlying image more, so it looks good against everything. I've got my background set to change randomly every minute, with about a hundred different images to choose from, and they all look nice with it. You'll like it.

Second, the UI changes are such a tiny thing compared to the rest of Leopard that it's amusing to see so much time spent discussing it. Leopard is not about the new UI. It's got hundreds upon hundreds of small improvements that individually may not sound all that exciting, but all together make for a huge leap forward.

After using Leopard, going back to Tiger is like fingernails on a chalkboard. And I loved Tiger.

I don't want to break my NDA in a big way, so I'll just add one more thing. Leopard is fast. Impossibly fast compared to Tiger, and it makes Vista seem like it is running in slow motion. Spotlight is really instant now, to the point that I uninstalled QuickSilver. If you've used QuickSilver, hopefully you understand what a big deal that is.

For reference, my Leopard machine is a first-gen MacBook -- the lowest configuration, but bumped to 1GB RAM. My Tiger machine is a 2.66GHz Mac Pro with 3GB RAM. And the MacBook is snappier.
The thing is: I know 9A500n in and out. I know it's shortcomings and where it's very good.
But I really disliked some things and hope they change.
I know Leopard is much faster than Tiger.

So what I'm really interested in are the changes from 9a500n to 9a527.

Wayfarer
Aug 25, 2007, 11:02 AM
I'm typing this from the new seed. First, Leopard is gorgeous. Not sure why you would think otherwise, but the UI is much more attractive and consistent.

I had mixed feelings about the transparent menu bar in the last two seeds, but the slight tweaks in this seed make all the difference. It's more opaque and blurs the underlying image more, so it looks good against everything. I've got my background set to change randomly every minute, with about a hundred different images to choose from, and they all look nice with it. You'll like it.

Second, the UI changes are such a tiny thing compared to the rest of Leopard that it's amusing to see so much time spent discussing it. Leopard is not about the new UI. It's got hundreds upon hundreds of small improvements that individually may not sound all that exciting, but all together make for a huge leap forward.

After using Leopard, going back to Tiger is like fingernails on a chalkboard. And I loved Tiger.

I don't want to break my NDA in a big way, so I'll just add one more thing. Leopard is fast. Impossibly fast compared to Tiger, and it makes Vista seem like it is running in slow motion. Spotlight is really instant now, to the point that I uninstalled QuickSilver. If you've used QuickSilver, hopefully you understand what a big deal that is.

For reference, my Leopard machine is a first-gen MacBook -- the lowest configuration, but bumped to 1GB RAM. My Tiger machine is a 2.66GHz Mac Pro with 3GB RAM. And the MacBook is snappier.

Wow, this sounds really promising. Leopard keeps getting better with every build!

guzhogi
Aug 25, 2007, 11:03 AM
OK, looks like people either love or hate the new dock & menubar. Let's just drop the "Why do/don't you like it?" debate. If you like it, get Leopard when it comes out. If you don't, stick w/ Tiger. Simple as that.

Much Ado
Aug 25, 2007, 11:04 AM
OK, looks like people either love or hate the new dock & menubar. Let's just drop the "Why do/don't you like it?" debate. If you like it, get Leopard when it comes out. If you don't, stick w/ Tiger. Simple as that.

And miss out on all of Leopard's features. Genius.

Markus1982
Aug 25, 2007, 11:04 AM
Simple as that.
********.
Not upgrading to a much advanced os because some ui-elements are ugly?

justflie
Aug 25, 2007, 11:06 AM
I was kind of hoping that this would allow you (or some feature like it) to record "Away Messages" for your iPhone voicemail. In other words, instead of having your standard voicemail message (Hi, I'm not here right now...) you could have a saved list of messages just like in iChat. "Hey, I'm at class right now, I'll be out in an hour." Then you can switch it to, "I'm at lunch, be back at 1:30." How cool would it be to switch your voicemail messages so easily from a saved list?

Dicx
Aug 25, 2007, 11:11 AM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rfischmann/565870194/in/set-72157600001100081/

i dno if this is the photo they use in the latest developer preview..coz this site is in spanish or something. but im thinking it is..and no one has posted pictures of the latest build yet. could this perhaps be it? what u all think?

Not the right desktop :)

Dicx
Aug 25, 2007, 11:14 AM
I cant get this link to work. Does anyone else know where i can find this? :confused:

This is the right one :)

kungming2
Aug 25, 2007, 11:18 AM
This is the right one :)

He meant the link: http://bayimg.com/FAgaeAabf

TuffLuffJimmy
Aug 25, 2007, 11:23 AM
I don't want that to be the default wallpaper in 10.5 It makes the menu bar pink and there isn't anything really going through the menu bar so you have to point out the stars to show it's transparent. It really looks like I just changed some settings to get my menu pink.

aLoC
Aug 25, 2007, 11:24 AM
Its hilarious man, it really is. People arent paying for Leopard because the scrollbars are not lickable and the dock is 3D.

I don't know about people in California, but most people don't like over extravagance. A 3D dock just feels like that. It's not like aluminium in the iMac which just feels like good quality.

Markus1982
Aug 25, 2007, 11:32 AM
I don't want that to be the default wallpaper in 10.5 It makes the menu bar pink and there isn't anything really going through the menu bar so you have to point out the stars to show it's transparent. It really looks like I just changed some settings to get my menu pink.

Screenshots would be sooooo welcome. Feel free to post them here :)
Maybe you could send them to Thinksecret. They'd like to publish them...

Egomaniac
Aug 25, 2007, 11:32 AM
I don't want that to be the default wallpaper in 10.5 It makes the menu bar pink and there isn't anything really going through the menu bar so you have to point out the stars to show it's transparent. It really looks like I just changed some settings to get my menu pink.

I like it. Are you actually seeing it in Leopard?

Dicx
Aug 25, 2007, 11:33 AM
He meant the link: http://bayimg.com/FAgaeAabf

Yes, I did.

My observations, I have had every build on my system. This is the first build that put a smile on my face and has me excited for Leopard.

It looks tuned and almost ready for GM. Under the hood is yet to be seen, but cosmetically, it has that Apple polish to it.

The intro movie is a little "Star Wars"ish but not my call to say ship with that.

If anyone is daring to post : HD/System/Library/CoreServices/ Right click on Setup Assistant (view package contents) and under the resources folder "intro.mov" This is the same on Tiger and Panther for that matter.

Anyways, I think this will be a great upgrade and worth the $, I am excited now, and looking forward to 10/19 or 10/26, my guess ;)

TuffLuffJimmy
Aug 25, 2007, 11:36 AM
http://bayimg.com/FAgaeAabf
found at bayimg :)

This is the wallpaper. I'm not sure if it's really the default for leopard, but from what I've heard it sounds like it is (purple and no time machine swirl). And it's cool and all but it doesn't show off menu transparency well, IMO.

CJD2112
Aug 25, 2007, 11:37 AM
Not the right desktop :)

Yeah, that's the wallpaper background for Time Machine...

Wayfarer
Aug 25, 2007, 11:38 AM
I don't want that to be the default wallpaper in 10.5 It makes the menu bar pink and there isn't anything really going through the menu bar so you have to point out the stars to show it's transparent. It really looks like I just changed some settings to get my menu pink.

Looking at your previous posts, it seems you aren't even using Leopard. You forgot to clarify that! I'm assuming that you customized Tiger to look like Leopard with a fake transparent menu bar. It doesn't work like the real thing...

I'll agree with you on one thing however. I'm not quite sure how pink will bode. I think a traditional abstract blue work better. In any case, Leopard seems to be shaping up nicely. People have to constantly remind others that there are plenty of under the hood changes that make it a worthy upgrade.

TuffLuffJimmy
Aug 25, 2007, 11:43 AM
Looking at your previous posts, it seems you aren't even using Leopard. You forgot to clarify that! I'm assuming that you customized Tiger to look like Leopard with a fake transparent menu bar. It doesn't work like the real thing...

I'll agree with you on one thing however. I'm not quite sure how pink will bode. I think a traditional abstract blue work better. In any case, Leopard seems to be shaping up nicely. People have to constantly remind others that there are plenty of under the hood changes that make it a worthy upgrade.

I never said I wouldn't get it because of the menu bar... In fact my signature says I'll get it the day it comes out.
Cosmetic changes are the easiest things to talk about, especially since it's one of the very few things noted in this release.

kungming2
Aug 25, 2007, 11:45 AM
Cosmetic changes are the easiest things to talk about, especially since it's one of the very few things noted in this release.

Not just that, the non-techie public don't find "under-the-hood" improvements that exciting either - they mostly dwell on the flashy/cosmetic stuff. :rolleyes:

Wayfarer
Aug 25, 2007, 11:47 AM
I never said I wouldn't get it because of the menu bar... In fact my signature says I'll get it the day it comes out.
Cosmetic changes are the easiest things to talk about, especially since it's one of the very few things noted in this release.

I never accused you of you of disliking the menu bar. You claimed that "you changed some settings to get your menu pink" but you weren't actually using Leopard. Haha I'm confused. :confused:

aafuss1
Aug 25, 2007, 11:48 AM
That was quick-only 5 days to release yet another build. Hopefully, we won't see any more screenshot leaks at this rate.

Sbrocket
Aug 25, 2007, 12:18 PM
If you had ever used leopard or even read about it, you'd know that it can be set to opaque. I think i'll be the third person to say this, "Don't knock it before you use it."

No, you can't! Why do people keep saying this as if they know stuff? There is no setting to change the color/opacity of the menu bar. THERE IS NOT. There never was, and its improbable that there ever will be. It would be largely useless now that the extreme transparency of the menu bar has been changed (as of 9A523). Stop spreading misinformation and horse crud all over the place. All it leads to is the perception that some option existed during development that was removed because "Apple sucks," which simply leads to more bad PR. Do you want that?

Here's a little teaser for those people without access to seeds: Leopard's improvements to Spotlight's performance and search speeds will make most of you dump Quicksilver. It really is instant as you type now.

iJawn108
Aug 25, 2007, 12:24 PM
Psst. Apple. Small tip. If you want feedback you could get a heck of a lot more input by opening up a release candidate to the lowly fanbase who would test the living crap out of 10.5. Heck even if it was another 5K you could get way more overall feedback but hey. What better way to say your OS is ready then to release a major update within 3 months of launch which I can bet they will do.
PS- Leave MS out of this. We all know MS faults. This is purely an Apple pet peeve of mine. Apple OS's could be a heck of a lot more stable out of the box if they would release "Release Candidate" builds to Apple Enthusiasts. No one is going to test the crap out of it more then us.
Didn't they do that way back in like '99 or '00 for the original OSX?

I remember my old boss wanted to shoot himself in the face due to printer problems lol

Dicx
Aug 25, 2007, 12:32 PM
Didn't they do that way back in like '99 or '00 for the original OSX?

I remember my old boss wanted to shoot himself in the face due to printer problems lol

I think there might have been a small fee with it, maybe not. I still have a shrink wrapped copy of the original marketing and OS X inside to test.

swingerofbirch
Aug 25, 2007, 12:38 PM
What other sites might have screenshots/intro vid,

the only other rumor sites I know of are appleinsider.com, thinksecret.com, 9to5mac.com, and powerpage.org

Any others to check?

eric_n_dfw
Aug 25, 2007, 12:41 PM
If you had ever used leopard or even read about it, you'd know that it can be set to opaque. I think i'll be the third person to say this, "Don't knock it before you use it."

Really? Not to blow my NDA or anything, but I've not found that setting? I'd love to make the menu opaque.

TuffLuffJimmy
Aug 25, 2007, 12:44 PM
Really? Not to blow my NDA or anything, but I've not found that setting? I'd love to make the menu opaque.

The only people I have heard say that there are opacity settings are the ones who haven't used leopard. So I guess that means you cannot change the opacity.

Sbrocket
Aug 25, 2007, 12:45 PM
Really? Not to blow my NDA or anything, but I've not found that setting? I'd love to make the menu opaque.

The latest revision of Leopard's menubar (9A523+) isn't really very transparent at all. I don't think making the menubar completely opaque (like Tiger's) is anywhere in Apple's plan of action right now.

xUKHCx
Aug 25, 2007, 12:47 PM
Here's a little teaser for those people without access to seeds: Leopard's improvements to Spotlight's performance and search speeds will make most of you dump Quicksilver. It really is instant as you type now.

Thats good, not that I use Quicksilver, i mainly use Namely because I only really need a launcher. However i use spotlight lots and a speed increase is very welcome as well as hopefully getting rid of it getting stuck looking for something.

Project
Aug 25, 2007, 01:24 PM
Most people dont use Quicksilver just for app launching. There are quicker apps for doing that.

colonels1020
Aug 25, 2007, 01:26 PM
pics or it didnt happen <_<

Egomaniac
Aug 25, 2007, 01:39 PM
Most people dont use Quicksilver just for app launching. There are quicker apps for doing that.

I never said they do use it just for app launching. Speed isn't the only improvement in Leopard's spotlight; it also searches many more types of data (such as bookmarks), rendering QuickSilver largely superfluous. I have no further need of it under Leopard.

eric_n_dfw
Aug 25, 2007, 01:44 PM
The latest revision of Leopard's menubar (9A523+) isn't really very transparent at all. I don't think making the menubar completely opaque (like Tiger's) is anywhere in Apple's plan of action right now.

I'm dl'ing it now - I hope that's true because I don't like the transparency in the last 2 seeds.

Also - to those wondering what's wrong with the dock, it's not transparent like the old one - so window content behind it is not at all visible any more.

That's all I'm comfortable saying with the NDA in all - I look forward to installing this seed to see if some bugs I've encountered are fixed too.

guzhogi
Aug 25, 2007, 01:47 PM
********.
Not upgrading to a much advanced os because some ui-elements are ugly?

From the looks like some of the comments in this thread, yes. Most people on MacRumors, I've noticed, know a lot more about computers than the average person I know. People who come here are more into the under-the-hood improvements, while most people outside MacRumors don't know about or don't give a $h!t about those improvements. Plus, it seems like even the new GUI elements (menubar, dock, etc.) are deal breakers for some of the MacRumor members. So don't go spreading your $h!t just b/c other people have different opinions than yours.

Taylor C
Aug 25, 2007, 01:49 PM
Whoa, the dock isn't transparent anymore? I didn't see that coming, I'm even more intrigued to see what this new build looks like now.

Project
Aug 25, 2007, 01:55 PM
I never said they do use it just for app launching. Speed isn't the only improvement in Leopard's spotlight; it also searches many more types of data (such as bookmarks), rendering QuickSilver largely superfluous. I have no further need of it under Leopard.

Spotlight in Tiger searches bookmarks too.

Quicksilver does so much and is so extensible that the two can coexist quite easily.

SiliconAddict
Aug 25, 2007, 01:55 PM
They already do have a fanbase beta feedback program. It costs just $129 to join and is available at all Apple stores at the end of October. :D

You may have been joking but sadly its true. :p :(

kbrain2929
Aug 25, 2007, 01:58 PM
I second the motion for as many screenshots as humanily ... or at least bandwith-ly... possible. Sorry.. I just got from a board of directors meeting. :D :apple:

Project
Aug 25, 2007, 02:00 PM
You may have been joking but sadly its true. :p :(

It is true, because such a limited number of beta testers for what is a huge piece of software will mean that bugs wont be exposed as quickly.

I personally don't mind too much. I will still purchase Leopard on day one. Part of the appeal of following Apple is the secrecy. You lose a lot of that if Apple start announcing their products 3 years in advance and having huge beta testing periods. The bugs will be worked out for the most part by 10.X.1/10.X.2. People who run mission critical processes should not be installing a new OS that is bleeding edge anyway.

popatz
Aug 25, 2007, 02:02 PM
I'd like to know if Apple's certified refurbished mbps will ship with Leopard after its release. Any indications that this will be the case or do I just have to wait to find out?

Thanks for any help you can give,

kbrain2929
Aug 25, 2007, 02:04 PM
I'd like to know if Apple's certified refurbished mbps will ship with Leopard after its release. Any indications that this will be the case or do I just have to wait to find out?

Thanks for any help you can give,

Hmmm.... Off to look into that.... It would be nice! :apple:

SiliconAddict
Aug 25, 2007, 02:07 PM
As anyone who works in software developemnt will tell you (to paraphrase) - no software survives contact with the enemy... eeerrr... end user.

Are there going to be bugs in the released version of Leopard? Yes. The only question is whether they will be "show-stoppers" on a per-user basis. 10.5.0 will be followed by 10.5.1 (which will fix some "last minute" things that did not make it into the gold master). 10.5.2 will (hopefully) fix most of the issues that come to light when Leopard "goes live".

A cautious user will of course continue to use Tiger 10.4.11 (or 10.4.12?) until Leopard's replacment is released - and then upgrade to Leopard 10.5.14 (or whatever).

Hence the reason you do a wider "release candidate" of a major software release. I mean really at this point the whole ooooo we have top secret features is beyond played out. Apple should drop a preview version of leopard for $10 which should cover the pressing, and shipping of the media easily. Build a small app into the RC for easy feedback, and have the OS expire in 90 days. I'm sorry but there are bugs in Tiger that are still present. USB bugs should have been squashed on day one of release. The behavior by apple borders on the unprofessional IMHO. IMHO you WANT to test the living crap out of your OS before the launch.
For as buggy as Vista is if you look at before they released it to the masses as a RC and after you will see that there were substantial gains in quality and stability. Again there is simply NO reason for Apple not to do this once the code gets more polished.
Apple has a huge fanbase who is more then willing to beta test. Go look at the bittorrent sites and see how many people have already DL these laster builds of Leopard. There is no reason to fight this. It a tool that Apple could use if they were the most arrogant company on the planet, which I believe they are. I'm certain it comes down to Jobs and his planet sized EGO. My guess. "Well we don't want to show the masses something that is buggy so we are keeping it behind closed doors." Its a load of BS but its BS that I'm certain Jobs is delusional enough to believe.


It is true, because such a limited number of beta testers for what is a huge piece of software will mean that bugs wont be exposed as quickly.

I personally don't mind too much. I will still purchase Leopard on day one. Part of the appeal of following Apple is the secrecy. You lose a lot of that if Apple start announcing their products 3 years in advance and having huge beta testing periods. The bugs will be worked out for the most part by 10.X.1/10.X.2. People who run mission critical processes should not be installing a new OS that is bleeding edge anyway.

If you want secrecy go buy a box of cracker jacks and pull out the prise. I want a solid OS to work on. This isn't a game. And frankly Apple CAN keep its secrecy. But 6 months before release would it really kill them to open the flood gates to us nerds?

aLoC
Aug 25, 2007, 02:09 PM
The 3D dock in Leopard is too big. Is there any way that if you're resizing a window the bottom edge could push the dock down instead of going behind it?

And then if there are no windows in the way it springs back up again.

kbrain2929
Aug 25, 2007, 02:10 PM
I'd like to know if Apple's certified refurbished mbps will ship with Leopard after its release. Any indications that this will be the case or do I just have to wait to find out?

Thanks for any help you can give,

Based upon what I just read... It's likely not to be known until the official release. Based upon what I saw on Apple's Refurb store site... It's likely. Even the oldest MBP still had OSX 10.4 with the latest updates. But with that said... they won't ship with iLife 08' or anything else like that. So who knows... I suppose we will have to wait and see. :apple:

EDIT: Strike that... some of the higher end refurbs ARE being shipped with iLife 08'... Hmmm... IDK...

Project
Aug 25, 2007, 02:14 PM
If you want secrecy go buy a box of cracker jacks and pull out the prise. I want a solid OS to work on. This isn't a game. And frankly Apple CAN keep its secrecy. But 6 months before release would it really kill them to open the flood gates to us nerds?

Then wait 2 months after its release date for any big issues to be ironed out. I don't see what the problem is. Id like a rock solid OS from day one too, but Apple live and die by their secrecy and hype. It brings in the fans. It brings in the media coverage. And it brings in the money. All of this goes towards producing the great products we crave.

Dicx
Aug 25, 2007, 02:17 PM
The 3D dock in Leopard is too big. Is there any way that if you're resizing a window the bottom edge could push the dock down instead of going behind it?

And then if there are no windows in the way it springs back up again.

If you have the dock locked in the "show position" all the time, ie no hiding, and you resize a window and get it down to the dock, it stops sizing. Think of it as hitting a brick wall, you can go sideways but not down anymore. The window just grazes the top of the dock.

If you move a window you can slide it behind the dock. Which makes the bottom hidden behind it.

Lermex
Aug 25, 2007, 02:26 PM
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5461/picture4sp9.th.png (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture4sp9.png)
...
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6061/picture2qm7.png (http://imageshack.us)
...
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3170/picture3vy7.th.png (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture3vy7.png)

toxicbomber
Aug 25, 2007, 02:30 PM
Wow that looks... amazing! Can't WAIT for Leopard.

G-Force
Aug 25, 2007, 02:31 PM
Wow that looks really good. Much better than previous builds if you ask me.

ventro
Aug 25, 2007, 02:31 PM
THanks for the screenshots. The new less-transparent menubar is looking great! Has a nice gradient on it. Also the new traffic lights are great.

subwarm
Aug 25, 2007, 02:34 PM
I have to say that I dig the top menu bar a whole lot more with this new build. Really well polished, easy to read and easier on the eyes.

The glowing lights in the dock for active applications go really well with the whole space/nebula/galaxy motif as well (they kind of look like stars to me now).

pilky
Aug 25, 2007, 02:36 PM
I am confused, however, about why 10.5 took so long to come. It seems to be an anemic upgrade overall. Perhaps iPhone and the big secret project took/are taking up a ton of resources...

Maybe because you're not looking at the REALLY cool stuff?

http://developer.apple.com/leopard/

Read the stuff in the Leopard Tech Series on the right. It's all the under the hood changes and changes for developers that have been taking a long time, and to be frank are what makes Leopard the most important release of OS X since 10.0

DHagan4755
Aug 25, 2007, 02:36 PM
A few comments about the screen shots...minor quibbles...

* The traffic light redesign are a little too loud. They need to be more muted.

* The dock preference pane icon in System Prefs doesn't look too good.

* Some of the other icons in System Prefs, like .Mac and Network look dated and need a flatter treatment.

Lermex
Aug 25, 2007, 02:42 PM
Installation now shows wallpaper too, but the grass one. So now we have 3 diffrent wallpapers set as default: grass during installation, space on desktop and the old aqua wallpaper with login window. oO

dejo
Aug 25, 2007, 02:46 PM
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5461/picture4sp9.th.png (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture4sp9.png)
...
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6061/picture2qm7.png (http://imageshack.us)
...
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3170/picture3vy7.th.png (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture3vy7.png)
Wow, that looks... like a serious NDA violation!

DHagan4755
Aug 25, 2007, 02:46 PM
and the old aqua wallpaper with login window. oO
I bet Apple hasn't gotten around to changing that one yet.

CJD2112
Aug 25, 2007, 02:51 PM
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5461/picture4sp9.th.png (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture4sp9.png)
...
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6061/picture2qm7.png (http://imageshack.us)
...
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3170/picture3vy7.th.png (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture3vy7.png)

Hey, what's the "duck" application?

Oh, and how are the traffic lights different? I'm using Leopard 9A500N, the Aqua red yellow green lights seem the same in comparison... What I did notice were the changes in System Properties. The Display is finally the newer Cinema Displays, Appearance and Desktop & Screen Saver are different as well as the Sharing icon...

Lermex
Aug 25, 2007, 02:58 PM
Hey, what's the "duck" application?

Adium (http://www.adiumx.com), opensource instant messenger.

Wayfarer
Aug 25, 2007, 03:05 PM
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5461/picture4sp9.th.png (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture4sp9.png)
...
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/6061/picture2qm7.png (http://imageshack.us)
...
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3170/picture3vy7.th.png (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture3vy7.png)
It bothers me when people have PATHETIC screenshot taking skills while ignoring clutter or things that take away from the viewing experience. (Ex. mutiple open windows open that touch the edge of the screen, icons on desktop unarranged, horrible Audium theme, GAHH!!! I mean if you're gonna take screenshots for the masses, at least do so tastefully! Especially when it comes to Leopard...

Sorry about that Lermex, but your tacky screen grabbing skills just PEEVES the artistic perfectionist in me. Anyway, thanks very much for posting the first screenies, albeit hastily. :D

Mgkwho
Aug 25, 2007, 03:21 PM
oh that's cool!

Thank GOD it's no longer the Vista grass...

-=|Mgkwho

Peace
Aug 25, 2007, 03:25 PM
oh that's cool!

Thank GOD it's no longer the Vista grass...

-=|Mgkwho

So you judge an operating system based on the desktop background that can be easily changed?

CJD2112
Aug 25, 2007, 03:26 PM
So you judge an operating system based on the desktop background that can be easily changed?

reeeeooooowwww!!! Hisssss, hisssss. Down girls ;).

Lermex
Aug 25, 2007, 03:26 PM
It bothers me when people have PATHETIC screenshot taking skills while ignoring clutter or things that take away from the viewing experience. (Ex. mutiple open windows open that touch the edge of the screen, icons on desktop unarranged, horrible Audium theme, GAHH!!! I mean if you're gonna take screenshots for the masses, at least do so tastefully! Especially when it comes to Leopard...

Sorry about that Lermex, but your tacky screen grabbing skills just PEEVES the artistic perfectionist in me. Anyway, thanks very much for posting the first screenies, albeit hastily. :D
Enjoy:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1743/picture1uq9.th.png (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture1uq9.png)

P.S. I'm uploading new intro movie from this build to youtube now...

BlizzardWolf
Aug 25, 2007, 03:28 PM
whats so different about the traffic lights? looks the same to me :confused::confused::confused:

Wayfarer
Aug 25, 2007, 03:28 PM
So you judge an operating system based on the desktop background that can be easily changed?

And don't forget those who judge an operating sysem based on the crappy screen grabs people take. (Myself not included) :apple:

Enjoy:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1743/picture1uq9.th.png (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture1uq9.png)

YAY! YOU DO CARE! :D

Peace
Aug 25, 2007, 03:30 PM
And don't forget that some judge an operating sysem based on the crappy screen grabs people take. (Myself not included) :apple:


Yes I know.and some break the NDA quickly by posting screen captures and movies.

These types probably know nothing about whats under the hood.The place where it really matters.

capone2
Aug 25, 2007, 03:36 PM
i will. the date will be friday 10/05-10.5 6pm.

The last OS X release. and that makes it exactly 6 weeks from yesterday!

God^Cent
Aug 25, 2007, 03:40 PM
Enjoy:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1743/picture1uq9.th.png (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture1uq9.png)

P.S. I'm uploading new intro movie from this build to youtube now...

Could we get a link plzs:D

Lermex
Aug 25, 2007, 03:43 PM
Could we get a link plzs:D
Of course, after it finishes uploading and processing.:apple:

Much Ado
Aug 25, 2007, 03:48 PM
whats so different about the traffic lights? looks the same to me :confused::confused::confused:

More saturated colors, brighter.

Snide
Aug 25, 2007, 03:51 PM
Of course, after it finishes uploading and processing.:apple:

Please do, because this is the only Leopard Intro I could find:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDiziEFsXKM :D

DrMoray
Aug 25, 2007, 03:52 PM
Good news. I can't wait til October.

vohdoun
Aug 25, 2007, 03:54 PM
Most people dont use Quicksilver just for app launching. There are quicker apps for doing that.

Such as?

kungming2
Aug 25, 2007, 03:55 PM
Hey, what's the "duck" application?


Adium - www.adiumx.com

Edit: Oops, jumped the gun - someone already posted the answer. :p

Lermex
Aug 25, 2007, 03:55 PM
Ok, it finished uploading. Watch it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG7sAwv5Sj8).
"Pretty cool, huh?" (C)

dejo
Aug 25, 2007, 03:55 PM
P.S. I'm uploading new intro movie from this build to youtube now...
Ugh, YouTube. Well, that'll really show off the beauty! :rolleyes:

Markus1982
Aug 25, 2007, 04:03 PM
Really nice video. But the traffic-lights are too bright and saturated if you ask me.

kungming2
Aug 25, 2007, 04:06 PM
Ok, it finished uploading. Watch it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG7sAwv5Sj8).
"Pretty cool, huh?" (C)

Wow! I have to say, it's really, really good! Thanks for uploading! :D

solace
Aug 25, 2007, 04:08 PM
new intro movie is kinda cool, but i'm tired of the same "welcome in diff languages" thing and PLEASE get some new music before the final version, i'm so tired of that from installing Tiger :p

Masquerade
Aug 25, 2007, 04:09 PM
nice, they got a portuguese welcome message too.

dom7
Aug 25, 2007, 04:10 PM
I think the video is amazing!

iJawn108
Aug 25, 2007, 04:11 PM
I love it!

Snide
Aug 25, 2007, 04:12 PM
Ugh, YouTube. Well, that'll really show off the beauty! :rolleyes:

Actually, it looks pretty good!

mcguin2000
Aug 25, 2007, 04:14 PM
That is ****ing cool!

Much Ado
Aug 25, 2007, 04:15 PM
I don't want to look. I've got to have something to look forward to.

eric_n_dfw
Aug 25, 2007, 04:18 PM
Actually, it looks pretty good!

If I'm not mistaken, YouTube is using H.264 for everything now-a-days.

hokullani
Aug 25, 2007, 04:21 PM
is there a way to download this movie?

kungming2
Aug 25, 2007, 04:21 PM
If I'm not mistaken, YouTube is using H.264 for everything now-a-days.

Some one try searching for this video on their iPhone. :p

badcrumble
Aug 25, 2007, 04:23 PM
Is this version stable enough for everyday use? Because if so I can't wait until it hits the torrent sites, I'd love to give Leopard a try.

Lermex
Aug 25, 2007, 04:24 PM
If I'm not mistaken, YouTube is using H.264 for everything now-a-days.
No, only for iPhone, web interface still uses flash video. But this may change soon because Adobe upgraded the flash player to support h264.

Siemova
Aug 25, 2007, 04:27 PM
Love the redone traffic lights! For partially colorblind people like me, it's a great boon: the yellow and green are easier to tell apart. :) Not that that's a big deal -- I could always tell by position and hover -- but still, very nice and slick-looking. I also like the menu bar much better, since it doesn't appear to be faded into the background anymore. Wish they'd make reflections in the dock less pronounced, however. At least a little more blurred. I've been using WWDC build and they're often distracting.

kungming2
Aug 25, 2007, 04:31 PM
You know, that makes me wonder - is the wallpaper an actual NASA image? Or is it an artist's rendering?

noaccess
Aug 25, 2007, 04:33 PM
Loving the intro video! :D

Can't wait until October... and the screenshots ;)

willybNL
Aug 25, 2007, 04:35 PM
I love it too :)


I love the new image (background) even more... I now use it in tiger, but it blends in perfect. Much better!

And: it's mostly black so very good to save power!!!

Taylor C
Aug 25, 2007, 04:39 PM
Easily the best intro video yet.

solace
Aug 25, 2007, 04:41 PM
And: it's mostly black so very good to save power!!!

that is kind of a myth, black backgrounds don't save power on LCDs, just CRTs:

http://blogs.wsj.com/energy/2007/05/09/can-a-black-google-save-energy/

cohibadad
Aug 25, 2007, 04:45 PM
the youtube vid doesn't do the intro movie justice. It is so smooooooth

DaBrain
Aug 25, 2007, 04:48 PM
OK, looks like people either love or hate the new dock & menubar. Let's just drop the "Why do/don't you like it?" debate. If you like it, get Leopard when it comes out. If you don't, stick w/ Tiger. Simple as that.

Man I sure wouldn't base my purchase/up date to Leopard or any OS for that matter on a Dock and Menu Bar! :eek:

Lermex
Aug 25, 2007, 04:51 PM
New buttons in Preview:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5109/picture2cl5.th.png (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture2cl5.png)

Peace
Aug 25, 2007, 04:54 PM
And arn wonders why he doesn't get invited to events.It's his own fault.

noaccess
Aug 25, 2007, 04:55 PM
Uh... do you have a link to that background, Lermex? :)

kungming2
Aug 25, 2007, 04:57 PM
Uh... do you have a link to that background, Lermex? :)

http://bayimg.com/FAgaeAabf - it's on the main article on the front page.

Rom Rim
Aug 25, 2007, 04:58 PM
Sci-fi space movie! Can you order it at Amazon? I'm going to order mine today! So cool! :apple:

BWhaler
Aug 25, 2007, 05:12 PM
I've been pretty disappointed at Leopard all along. I guess I was expecting a lot more innovation from Apple.

Ideas I think Apple missed the boat on:

1. Have your Mac behave like a wireless headset for your iPhone. Send texts. Answer calls, etc. See who is calling on screen, etc. I know about BluePhone Elite, but Apple could do a much better job

2. A re-think of how people can manage tasks/email/scheduling. In an age where many people use their inbox for storage of emails, pending tasks, follow-ups from bosses and subordinates, etc., and need to map these emails to tasks, time, etc., a re-think of this process and the tools around it is something well suited for Apple. Programs like iGTD are trying in this area, but it is too complicated. I see how the email and tasks are headed in the right direction, but the current implementation just falls short.


But with that said, I am beginning to get excited about Leopard.

I wasn't crazy about the new desktop, but as I spent time studying the new Dock, and how the Dock with the new default desktop image looks 3D together, and I think it's very cool. It almost seems like the Dock is sitting there on the edge of space.

Still not sure about the Menu Bar, but I think the changes made in the latest build help a great deal in terms of usability. But the other changes on the UI look great, and I agree that Apple has made a lot of little enhancements which are nice. (Just look at the subtle changes in the icons in the System Preferences.)

Yes, I still think there were some huge missed opportunities. But with that said, Leopard is looking to be a solid upgrade, for no other reason than more speed--especially for the Intel computers--and a consistent UI.

I am sure Spaces will speed up how I use my computer in the many unexpected ways as Exposé did.

I think the ability to use other computers remotely will be a huge help for people who work with Macs in multiple locations.

And time machine, in an era where our most valuable memories have moved from the shoe box to our hard drives, is an critical enhancement.

Yes, I am getting excited for Leopard. I just hope the quality is really solid and Apple doesn't release it before it's ready.

manu chao
Aug 25, 2007, 05:18 PM
So you judge an operating system based on the desktop background that can be easily changed?

It's called conditioning. Similar to when animals are trained to associate, eg, a colour or a sound with some sort of punishment.

vaivedraivai
Aug 25, 2007, 05:23 PM
Personally, I'm excited about it. It looks like it's got some great new features.

Sadly, I am stuck on a pc until december... :( got a while to wait, don't I?

guifa
Aug 25, 2007, 05:24 PM
What I think speaks more for the opening video is the inclusion of new language's words/phrases for Welcome. I don't think that here has been previously an Apple-sponsored translation of Portuguese or Russian, both of which represent sizeable language populations (Brasilian, parts of Africa, and Portugal for Portuguese, and of course all of Russia and parts of former soviet territories for Russian). Apple has a site for Brasilians but I've not been aware of their programs being released yet in Portuguese. And they have no market presence or web presence for that matter in Russia as far as I know.

zap2
Aug 25, 2007, 05:25 PM
Looks good...cool new Video, and all the features look great.


Glad to know Apple will have 10.5 on time(this time)

p0intblank
Aug 25, 2007, 05:26 PM
The new default desktop, in my opinion, is much better than the grass. Grass is just... well, very "Vista." And I love the new intro movie! :)

ppnkg
Aug 25, 2007, 05:37 PM
Good to know Leopard is on the way.

Speaking of the desktop picture. The grass thing was way better than the purple black space thing. This one is atrocious.

7031
Aug 25, 2007, 05:37 PM
Lookin' good Leopard!

I have high speed internet @ home (I live in the US). It's a 6 Mbps download speed at best from comcast and it's taking more than 2 hours to download. So when you add in burning it to DVD & actually installing it, that's probably 4 hours at least.

Edit: now it's going to take 4.5 hours just to download.

6Mbps? Not that great. I'm on 16Mpbs, and I know people on 24Mbps (in England).

swingerofbirch
Aug 25, 2007, 05:48 PM
Lookin' good Leopard!



6Mbps? Not that great. I'm on 16Mpbs, and I know people on 24Mbps (in England).

I imagine it's easier to spread high bandwidth Internet in a country that's about the size of Minnesota. Also does your government control the Internet etc? When I lived in Europe I noticed technologies rolled out faster as the government was more in charge of it than were companies.

68134
Aug 25, 2007, 05:56 PM
Lookin' good Leopard!



6Mbps? Not that great. I'm on 16Mpbs, and I know people on 24Mbps (in England).

Be greatful, most homes in the US aren't able to get DSL or cable internet... Even those who are able to generally live to far away from the ISP to get anything more than 3 Mbps . Places like japan and s. Korea can easily obtain upwards of 100 Mbps for real cheap. The US is wayyyyy behind on broadband

Muzzway
Aug 25, 2007, 05:57 PM
Wow. Thanks for everything, Lermex. :D

God^Cent
Aug 25, 2007, 05:59 PM
Well the space picture looks great with the leopard desktop but not perfect. I think if they animated the light rays to look some what like flurry it would be icing on the cake!

Manic Mouse
Aug 25, 2007, 06:04 PM
Could we please, pretty please, get a few shots of the desktop with a few different backgrounds to see how the menu bar has changed? Like the default Tiger one and the one with the clown fish?

Love you Lermex :p

kbrain2929
Aug 25, 2007, 06:10 PM
That intro video is wonderful. It's really cool... If I do say so myself... the countdown to Leopard HAS begun! :apple:

ortuno2k
Aug 25, 2007, 06:21 PM
I like the changes I see to the menu bar and the desktop picture - it was too Vista-ish before! I hated the grass and the completely-transparent menu bar, but it looks a lot better now.

I also liked the video, looking good.

bill4588
Aug 25, 2007, 06:26 PM
have the close, minimize, maximize buttons always looked that weird? (take a look at the new pics)

paja
Aug 25, 2007, 06:27 PM
Thanks to all of the programmers and designers at Apple for their hard work. Leopard looks like it will be awesome!

Hope you all get a nice raise and a vacation after it ships.:)

mark88
Aug 25, 2007, 06:28 PM
have the close, minimize, maximize buttons always looked that weird? (take a look at the new pics)

I'm guessing these are the new vector versions.

bill4588
Aug 25, 2007, 06:32 PM
I'm guessing these are the new vector versions.

hopefully thats now how it will look in the final build...it's not very easy on the eyes...well, my eyes at least.

drayon
Aug 25, 2007, 06:33 PM
I'm typing this from the new seed. First, Leopard is gorgeous. Not sure why you would think otherwise, but the UI is much more attractive and consistent.

I had mixed feelings about the transparent menu bar in the last two seeds, but the slight tweaks in this seed make all the difference. It's more opaque and blurs the underlying image more, so it looks good against everything. I've got my background set to change randomly every minute, with about a hundred different images to choose from, and they all look nice with it. You'll like it.

Second, the UI changes are such a tiny thing compared to the rest of Leopard that it's amusing to see so much time spent discussing it. Leopard is not about the new UI. It's got hundreds upon hundreds of small improvements that individually may not sound all that exciting, but all together make for a huge leap forward.

After using Leopard, going back to Tiger is like fingernails on a chalkboard. And I loved Tiger.

I don't want to break my NDA in a big way, so I'll just add one more thing. Leopard is fast. Impossibly fast compared to Tiger, and it makes Vista seem like it is running in slow motion. Spotlight is really instant now, to the point that I uninstalled QuickSilver. If you've used QuickSilver, hopefully you understand what a big deal that is.

For reference, my Leopard machine is a first-gen MacBook -- the lowest configuration, but bumped to 1GB RAM. My Tiger machine is a 2.66GHz Mac Pro with 3GB RAM. And the MacBook is snappier.


Yeah yeah and this is the same drivel we here every single time a major update is close. "Yeah its so much faster", And SOO amazing" until we actually get it an its like a major disappointment because ppl like you greatly exaggerate EVERYTHING about the OS. Im sick of listening to ppl like you misinformants. When i eventually get the OS im always disappointed as it is NEVER a massive speed increase like everyone talks about, usually sure a very minor improvement in speed in some cases but never as significant you promoted.

Besides a stupid looking oversized bulging Dock, which one still cant permanently hide an reactivate it only when needed (and to think Apple actually listened to those people spoofing over that crap Solaris Glass interface) and whoopy do dar Spaces and coverflow view, there is nothing of particular interest in Leopard as far as im concerned. There is no Resolution Independence and no Quartz 2D Extreme and basically no GPU acceleration of any other kind including MPEG (variants) of video. No ability to save and reload a session on login from a last logged session like Linux. No ZFS, no ability to change system font types an sizes, absolutely no significant improvement to the Dumb POS Finder which everyone HATES, no change to Open/Save Dialogs which most ppl HATE and find completely useless.

What an overhyped overdue copy of Vista. Yeah the power of Unix so dumbed down a retard can use it great!!

MrCrowbar
Aug 25, 2007, 06:36 PM
[QUOTE=BWhaler;4093517]I've been pretty disappointed at Leopard all along. I guess I was expecting a lot more innovation from Apple.


1. Have your Mac behave like a wireless headset for your iPhone. Send texts. Answer calls, etc. See who is calling on screen, etc. I know about BluePhone Elite, but Apple could do a much better job

There's a way to use bluetooth phones with address book, that displays the cakker ID (adress book entry) of your callers as well as SMS and dialing from within address book. Just set up your Mac's bluetooth with your iPhone and you'll see something like this.

Note: I don't have an iPhone, but a SE W810i. Adress book syncing and caller ID works nicely, SMS doesn't and the calendar is always 1 hour early on the phone which makes it pretty unusable.
http://tinyurl.com/yrq7cd

ortuno2k
Aug 25, 2007, 06:37 PM
Thanks to all of the programmers and designers at Apple for their hard work. Leopard looks like it will be awesome!

Hope you all get a nice raise and a vacation after it ships.:)

Let's hope they ALL don't get a vacation right away - who's going to do the updates and address issues that arise? :D

BWhaler
Aug 25, 2007, 06:42 PM
[QUOTE=BWhaler;4093517]I've been pretty disappointed at Leopard all along. I guess I was expecting a lot more innovation from Apple.


1. Have your Mac behave like a wireless headset for your iPhone. Send texts. Answer calls, etc. See who is calling on screen, etc. I know about BluePhone Elite, but Apple could do a much better job

There's a way to use bluetooth phones with address book, that displays the cakker ID (adress book entry) of your callers as well as SMS and dialing from within address book. Just set up your Mac's bluetooth with your iPhone and you'll see something like this.

Note: I don't have an iPhone, but a SE W810i. Adress book syncing and caller ID works nicely, SMS doesn't and the calendar is always 1 hour early on the phone which makes it pretty unusable.
http://tinyurl.com/yrq7cd

I know about this. This is not what I meant.

Go check out BluePhone Elite and you'll see what I am talking about. Apple has missed the boat in tying the devises together.

BWhaler
Aug 25, 2007, 06:45 PM
Yeah yeah and this is the same drivel we here every single time a major update is close. "Yeah its so much faster", And SOO amazing" until we actually get it an its like a major disappointment because ppl like you greatly exaggerate EVERYTHING about the OS. Im sick of listening to ppl like you misinformants. When i eventually get the OS im always disappointed as it is NEVER a massive speed increase like everyone talks about, usually sure a very minor improvement in speed in some cases but never as significant you promoted.

Besides a stupid looking oversized bulging Dock, which one still cant permanently hide an reactivate it only when needed (and to think Apple actually listened to those d!Kh3aD$ spoofing over that crap Solaris Glass interface) and whoopy do dar Spaces and coverflow view, there is nothing of particular interest in Leopard as far as im concerned. There is no Resolution Independence and no Quartz 2D Extreme and basically no GPU acceleration of any other kind including MPEG (variants) of video. No ability to save and reload a session on login from a last logged session like Linux. No ZFS, no ability to change system font types an sizes, absolutely no significant improvement to the Dumb POS Finder which everyone HATES, no change to Open/Save Dialogs which most ppl HATE and find completely useless.

What an overhyped overdue copy of Vista. Yeah the power of Unix so dumbed down a retard can use it great!!

It's their opinion. You're smart enough to understand that, right? Do you always get this upset when you disagree with people? And do you really put this much weight on random strangers' opinions from the internet.


General Observation:

Why is it always newbies who registered the same day with opinions like this?

Apple news always brings out the haters...