Mac OS X Panther 7B34 and Server 7B32

[MacRumors]

ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/panther7B34.html) that Mac OS X Panther Client and Panther Server have reached new internal builds.

According to the site, Panther Client is now at 7B34 and Server at 7B32. The new versions are said undergoing localization testing, but have not yet been seeded to developers.

While public claims from Apple promise Panther's release by the end of the year, recent rumors are suggesting September.

[Bruja]

Yes.. I would be a good thing to have it earlier than expected

[daveL]

Doesn't look to me as though the releases mentioned will be generally seeded, but I'm getting the sense that we're on a 2 week seeding schedule.

Just my opinion.

[Powerbook G5]

As long as I can get a new 15" AlBook shipped relatively soon with Panther preinstalled, I'll be a very happy Apple camper. :)

[j33pd0g]

Just as long as it is out before Christmas. The greatest stocking stuffer of the year 2003 goes to: (insert drum roll) Panther.

[mac15]

I couldn't imagine myself getting an OS for xmas ..... :) there it is sitting under the tree.... eh wow ;)

anyways, I wonder whats new and whats fixed

[Alexander]

Panther now supports access to disks greater than 1TB via the buffered disk devices (e.g. /dev/disk1). It worked with the unbuffered (e.g. /dev/rdisk1) devices before, but they're a pain to work with. I'm sure regular volumes >1TB worked fine in Jag, too.

The chances of anyone who reads this actually caring about it is about nil, but it just saved my day, and I wanted to tell someone. ;)

[bennetsaysargh]

argh. im way back in te dust now. i have the porigional pre release. 7A202.
argh:(

[tizza]

Well maybe Apple is secretly planning a PB/Panther preinstalled release in Q4 - fingers crossed ...

[Powerbook G5]

Support for over 1 TB? Wow...I guess I can finally use my vast 6 gig HD to its full glory now :D Seriously, I cannot wait. I personally like the brushed metal look, so the Finder looks slick and sexy to me along with the rumored speed improvements, can only be good. Not only that, but Expose...oooo...I just cannot wait to try that out. Fast user switching looks cool, but since I am the only one who uses my computer, I won't have any need for that besides the cool factor. I just hope it comes out soon before I burst. It sounded like it was getting better and better until build 28 seemed to cause lots of account admin settings to lock users out...was this a widespread problem or just isolated cases? I just hope it doesn't mean it'll take longer for Panther to reach GM...

[Duff-Man]

Duff-Man says....I am just guessing here - no inside info - but I don't think we will see a release in September...what I think we will see is the *announcement* of the release date...probably at the Paris Expo, with a shipping date in mid-October......oh yeah!

[Longey Nowze]

Originally posted by Duff-Man
Duff-Man says....I am just guessing here - no inside info - but I don't think we will see a release in September...what I think we will see is the *announcement* of the release date...probably at the Paris Expo, with a shipping date in mid-October......oh yeah!

Lo_No says... The Duff-Man makes me laugh while waiting for the new PBs and Panther... oh yeah!

LoL
MaT

[macnews]

The sooner the better. I like the fast user switching - hope it is faster than windows XP. It looked like it was when it was previewed. I also can't wait for expose`. Could this be ported as a patch to 10.2? That would be an extra feature I would pay for on some of my other macs.

[ultrafiel]

Shoot, I was going to guess that the announcement of the release date of Panther would also be at Macworld Paris or whatever it is called. I would be ecstatic if it was released then, but I doubt it. Just announced would be great though. I need to reinstall my system because I'm having Airport problems, and it just feels like the time to start fresh again. I want to wait for Panther, but I'm not sure how long I can hold out. I really hate going through the process of reinstalling all my apps, so I'd rather just do it once. And yes, I know I could just install over the old system, but starting clean always seems to give me better results (maybe imaginary in any case).

[mj_1903]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Support for over 1 TB? Wow...I guess I can finally use my vast 6 gig HD to its full glory now :D Seriously, I cannot wait.

Man, you need an upgrade. The PowerMac G5's can have more RAM than you can have hard drive space.

[Powerbook G5]

Back in 1999 a 6 gig HD was the biggest you can get in your PowerBook short of spending $600 on an IBM drive from a third party and installing it yourself. But I know...the G5 can have a good 8 gig of RAM (rumored 16 gigs with the new 2 gig RAM coming out) and 500 gigs of HD...that's just insane. It's my guess that with these newer Bus speed increases, 64 bit memory addressing, better SMP capabilities, I/O and various advances that the G5 is giving Apple, we will be seeing some more advanced things coming to OS X in the near future to fully exploit them.

[vrapan]

It seems like this year has been a turning point for Apple. Very many exciting things... I switched in a good year !!! G5, Panther, iTMS, 12" and 17" PBs all sorts of stuff if they keep the momentum it will be great for the company and the customers! I am excited!

[Alexander]

For a period of time, my *printer* had more memory than my partner's *computer*. Man, that was fun. :)

[mvc]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
It's my guess that with these newer Bus speed increases, 64 bit memory addressing, better SMP capabilities, I/O and various advances that the G5 is giving Apple, we will be seeing some more advanced things coming to OS X in the near future to fully exploit them.

Yeah, they say software development is like bacteria in a petrie dish, it keeps growing until it consumes all available resources.

I want to know exactly WHAT Jaguar is doing with all my ram, is it starting new recursive copies of itself every time the cursor blinks or something. Its not just an ordinary memory leak, its a freaking whirlpool.

Just because ram is cheap doesn't mean software shouldn't be elegant rather than rely on brute force. Elegance usually (not always) is associated with efficiency and good design. - I hope Panther is a whole lot less ram hungry or a LOT faster. Or both.

I could forgive the ram gobbling if it was fast as a result. But Jaguar is neither fast or lean, its no feline predator - its a damn fat cat showpussy licking its nuts all day! :mad:

[vrapan]

256MB RAM. Jaguar eats the whole thing... Panther... You will be happy. IT IS BOTH!!!! faster and less mem hungry. REJOICE

[The Grimace]

Originally posted by macnews
...I like the fast user switching - hope it is faster than windows XP. It looked like it was when it was previewed. ...

It is much faster. When enabled, fast user switching puts your user name up in the right side of the menu bar, where the app switcher used to be in OS 9, and to switch users you just select who from a drop-down menu. My machine doesn't support Quartz Extreme, so it doesn't do the cube thing, just goes blank then shows the new desktop.

And Expose is perhaps the coolest thing since sliced bread. With OS 8/9, I used a little control panel called ApplWindows, that allowed me to click anywhere around the edge of the screen and pull up a menu with all apps and their windows. I could then easily switch to whichever app/window I wanted. The Dock doesn't even come close to this functionality - too slow with the menus. Expose is fast. I have it set so that when I click on the middle button (scroll wheel), it reveals all windows (that aren't hidden). I also have hot corners set; the 'reveal desktop' (or whatever) is dang handy as well; clears all windows off to the side of the screen, so you can just barely see the side of 'em. Go back to the corner, or click on what little you can see, and voila! they're back. Really very slick.

And the system does seem more responsive, over all. Apps launch faster, windows resize faster (although still some lag), et al. And while some hate it, I like the move to brushed metal. The new Finder kicks; much easier to navigate with the new layout.

Anyways, I look forward to coughing up my $129 when the GM is released. If y'all thought Jaguar was worth the $$$, then you'll love Panther.

Oh yeah, just for the record -
iMac DV 400 w/ 320MB is what I'm using. Gonna try it on my Wallstreet, but I don't think it's supported.

(tig)

[punter]

Originally posted by The Grimace
It is much faster....
And Expose is perhaps the coolest thing since sliced bread. Oh yeah, just for the record -
iMac DV 400 w/ 320MB is what I'm using.
(tig)

Expose works on non Quartz Extreme computers?!!? Wooooohooooo :D I too have a iMac DV400 but with 512MB. All the reports of faster and less memory, and now Exposé mean I'm definitely making the purchase.

And just think I was going to upgrade my machine (mainly) for exposé :)

[frogmella]

Well, I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but Panther ain't that much of an excitement. I'm running 7B28, and it is definitely faster, prettier and more refined (even works well on my iMac/233), but when it comes to new features... hmmmm...

I don't really see how they can justify a $129 price tag this time around.

[DamnDJ]

Originally posted by frogmella
Well, I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but Panther ain't that much of an excitement. I'm running 7B28, and it is definitely faster, prettier and more refined (even works well on my iMac/233), but when it comes to new features... hmmmm...

I don't really see how they can justify a $129 price tag this time around.

I feel the complete opposite is true. I think Panther is going to be as much of an important upgrade as Jaguar was to 10.1, if not more so..

New help center, Expose, Speed, fast user switching, the new finder, iChat AV, new security features, etc are making this one heck of an upgrade. One I will have no problem shelling out an upgrade price for.

[gadg]

What exactly is Quartz Extreme? And does the 12" Powerbook have it? And what's the cube thing? :-)

Excuse my ignorance!

[Powerbook G5]

Quartz Extreme is the name for the graphics engine built into OS X, it combined the power of OpenGL, Quicktime, and the various features on your computer's graphics card to render all the cool effects that OS X is capable of, and yes, your computer has it. The cube thing is how Fast user switching works...if you go to Apple.com and go to the OS X and then Panther preview, they explain it with pictures to depict how it works.

[Powerbook G5]

Oh, and I have a question of my own for all those users with Panther...when you use Expose, do you have to keep your mouse button/keyboard button pressed the whole time, or does it activate and stay in Expose mode until you actually select a window or invoke Expose again? I'm just curious, especially with the show desktop mode, if it will hide the windows and keep them there so you can work with the desktop without the windows flying back.

[DamnDJ]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Oh, and I have a question of my own for all those users with Panther...when you use Expose, do you have to keep your mouse button/keyboard button pressed the whole time, or does it activate and stay in Expose mode until you actually select a window or invoke Expose again? I'm just curious, especially with the show desktop mode, if it will hide the windows and keep them there so you can work with the desktop without the windows flying back.

At least with the mouse, yes, you can have Expose remain active with one quick click.

I assigned the middle mouse button to have Expose show all windows on the screen and all I'd have to do is press it once and it will stick in Expose mode. I used this a lot as I just sit back and watch all the little windows since they are updated even in Expose mode. When I want to activate a window, I'd just click on it or press the mouse button again.

You can also hold the mouse button down for a lengthy amount of time and when you let go, the windows will snap back.

[Powerbook G5]

Cool, thanks. I cannot wait to see Expose in action when I upgrade. :)

[daveL]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Quartz Extreme is the name for the graphics engine built into OS X, it combined the power of OpenGL, Quicktime, and the various features on your computer's graphics card to render all the cool effects that OS X is capable of, and yes, your computer has it. The cube thing is how Fast user switching works...if you go to Apple.com and go to the OS X and then Panther preview, they explain it with pictures to depict how it works.
Well, not exactly ... Quartz is the 2D graphics engine for OS X. OpenGL is the 3D engine.

Quartz has two components:Core Services, which is the window manager and such, and Core Rendering, which, you guessed it, handles all the rendering.

Quartz Extreme is the bit that offloads alot of the rendering chores to the GPU. You have to have a fairly recent (last couple of years) graphics chip to take advantage of this.

[theipodgod16]

so will panther run on a g3 imac? or only a g4+?:confused:

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by gadg
What exactly is Quartz Extreme? And does the 12" Powerbook have it? And what's the cube thing? :-)

Excuse my ignorance!

Quartz Extreme is an extension of the Quartz window manager that offsets certain display tasks from the CPU to the GPU, thereby allowing the CPU to get on with other tasks unhindered.

The PowerBook 12" supports Quartz Extreme yes.

The 'cube thing' is an effect taken from Apple's Keynote presentation software where the screen is placed onto one side of a cube, and other users are placed on other sides of the cube. When you switch users the cube rotates (on QE systems) to reveal the other users desktop. It's very cool, and you can see it in action in the Webcast still available on Apple's site, along with Expose, which has changed slightly from the WWDC.

AppleMatt

[Powerbook G5]

Panther should run on your iMac just fine, the only system I'd be unsure about is the older Beige G3 systems since the beta versions seem to be missing that from the compatibility list.

[vrapan]

so will panther run on a g3 imac? or only a g4+?

It will run on a G3 (you will miss the cube effect but oh well) and it will make it quite a bit speedier too if I am to judge from what it has done on my 12" PB

[3G4N]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Cool, thanks. I cannot wait to see Expose in action when I upgrade. :)

Gee, Powerbook G5, I can't wait to see you. : )

[crenz]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Fast user switching looks cool, but since I am the only one who uses my computer, I won't have any need for that besides the cool factor.

I think there are a lot of uses for fast user switching, even for a computer that is normally used by one user only:


Set up multiple workspaces for yourself (programming, graphics, music, VirtualPC, ...)
Create a guest user for surfing that can be used by your friends when they drop by, and lock your main account with a password
Use it for presentations to quickly switch between your presentation and a program you want to demo


If it is really that fast, I am probably gonna use it like virtual desktops under Linux. Very useful if you only have a small screen.

[Powerbook G5]

That's true...it could be a pretty cool virtual desktop on demand sort of thing...I guess you have to think outside of (or on) the box (pun very much intended) :)

[AppleMatt]

That's what I do, I have my account, a test account (for new software and checking exsisting software etc), and a guest account.

I'm always switching between mine and the test account, even more with fast user switching.

AppleMatt

[Powerbook G5]

I have a setup like that on the family Dell with XP on it. There are the normal account that my parents have, then I made one for when I have to use it with all those graphics and crap turned off and lots of tweaks so when I have to use Windows to play games and stuff, it runs that much faster. I personally think the Windows 2000 look to the stripped down XP looks much better than the "Windows meets Tyco meets Crayola" look it has normally, plus it feels snappier, too.

[daveL]

Originally posted by crenz
I think there are a lot of uses for fast user switching, even for a computer that is normally used by one user only:


Set up multiple workspaces for yourself (programming, graphics, music, VirtualPC, ...)
Create a guest user for surfing that can be used by your friends when they drop by, and lock your main account with a password
Use it for presentations to quickly switch between your presentation and a program you want to demo


If it is really that fast, I am probably gonna use it like virtual desktops under Linux. Very useful if you only have a small screen.
The problem I see with this is that you have to create the other "users" without passwords for it to be at all convenient, which leaves you wide open to getting hacked. If you use passwords, it's a major pain to switch between workspaces, since you are continually logging in.

Another problem is that you can't cut/copy/paste between workspace "users".

I think I'll continue to use Virtual Desktop from CodeTek.

[Powerbook G5]

If you don't already use a password for your main account, how would extra accounts leave you any more vulnerable than you currently are? As for the copy and paste...I wouldn't be surprised to see a work around with some kind of universal clipboard feature.

[Mudbug]

This is a good point - your machine is only as secure as your weakest point, so if you have one user that isn't protected, you have a hole, no matter how many other clients have password protection. Granted, if it's a simple user account without admin access, it's more difficult, but is still possible. You're best off using different accounts with different passwords on ALL of them to keep yourself safe, if this is a computer that will be used by multiple people. If it's just at your house, then security is only as big an issue as you perceive it to be.

And if it's that big of an issue, you shouldn't be looking at those websites anyway ;)

[Powerbook G5]

Well I wouldn't have to worry about my family since we have four computers at our house and I am the only one in my family who uses a Mac. As far as at school, my roommates both have their own laptops, so I doubt they'd have any reason to use mine.

[daveL]

I just don't take security for granted if I'm connected to the 'net. Even a firewall doesn't ensure safety; there's always the possibility that the f/w has a whole/bug. If you're on the 'net, it's just insane not to have passwords on all your accounts.
I guess I've seen too many port scans hitting my router to think I'm not vulnerable. The good news is at least I'm not running Windows.

Just my take on it.

[cnladd]

Originally posted by daveL
The good news is at least I'm not running Windows.


But at least Windows has a kick-butt RPC implementation. ;)

I'd see the biggest issue with using Fast User Switching as a virtual desktop solution being that you're creating different users -- that involves the headaches of multiple UID's and home directories.

Though, if you're feeling really brave, break out your copy of NetInfo Manager and instead of creating accounts in the normal way (i.e.: through the Accounts prefs pane) just create clones of your regular user, each with a different name.

If you keep the same UID, GID, home directory, etc. then anything you do on any of the virtual desktops will appear to the system as if it's done by a single user.

daveL: What's been your experience with CodeTek Virtual Desktop and Panther? I tried it a couple of weeks ago, but had problems when mixing CTVD and Expose. Is that still a problem?

[daveL]

I did install VPC 6 under 7B21 and it seemed to be working correctly. I didn't do any extensive testing, or try running it and exercising Expose or FUS. When the next seed comes out, I'll try it again.

[cnladd]

Originally posted by daveL
I did install VPC 6 under 7B21 and it seemed to be working correctly. I didn't do any extensive testing, or try running it and exercising Expose or FUS. When the next seed comes out, I'll try it again.

My problems came about when I had a few windows on multiple desktops and then I executed "F9" (don't remember what it's really called.) Expose made a "place" for the windows on other desktops and when mousing over the "place" it highlighted it in blue, but never showed the actual windows themselves.

That's just with my regular ol' laptop display. Add CodeTek Virtual Desktop with Expose and throw in multiple monitor support and it gets seriously whacked. (Expose works beautiful with multiple monitors, by the way.)

[daveL]

Originally posted by cnladd
My problems came about when I had a few windows on multiple desktops and then I executed "F9" (don't remember what it's really called.) Expose made a "place" for the windows on other desktops and when mousing over the "place" it highlighted it in blue, but never showed the actual windows themselves.

That's just with my regular ol' laptop display. Add CodeTek Virtual Desktop with Expose and throw in multiple monitor support and it gets seriously whacked. (Expose works beautiful with multiple monitors, by the way.)
Sorry, I didn't catch your CTVD reference the first time. I know there has been a recent CTVD release that mentions Panther beta, but I don't know if that's the issue for you. I've been trying to use Panther sans VirtualDesktop, just to see if Expose is enough. We'll see.

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by gadg
What exactly is Quartz Extreme? And does the 12" Powerbook have it? And what's the cube thing? :-)

Excuse my ignorance!
Here's some info...
Quartz Extreme is a way of using a graphic card's processor to do more Quartz work (Quartz is the OS X display system.) More (slighty marketing-ish) info can be found here (http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/quartzextreme.html). And, yes, the 12" PowerBook supports it. As for the "cube thing :)", when you do fast user switching in OS X v10.3 with QE, a metallic-looking cube spins from one user's desktop to the other. Pictures can be found here. (http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/fast_user_switching.html)

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by theipodgod16
so will panther run on a g3 imac? or only a g4+?:confused:
Apparently Panther will run fine on a G3 (I hope so, I have one too.) One person who apparently has a developer preview of Panther runs it on an iBook G3 700. However rumors are that Panther no longer will run on Beige G3's.

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by vrapan
It will run on a G3 (you will miss the cube effect but oh well)
Will I miss the cube effect? I have a 14" iBook 900 with Quartz Extreme support.

[bennetsaysargh]

Originally posted by ryaxnb
Apparently Panther will run fine on a G3 (I hope so, I have one too.) One person who apparently has a developer preview of Panther runs it on an iBook G3 700. However rumors are that Panther no longer will run on Beige G3's.

i think that might as well be because those are slow now a days, and it wouldn't even be worth running panther on it:p

[vrapan]

Will I miss the cube effect? I have a 14" iBook 900 with Quartz Extreme support.

Nop you won't you will see it just fine maybe you wil switch even faster than I am on my 867Mhz 12" PB .... Enjoy!

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by ryaxnb
Apparently Panther will run fine on a G3 (I hope so, I have one too.) One person who apparently has a developer preview of Panther runs it on an iBook G3 700. However rumors are that Panther no longer will run on Beige G3

The GM won't, no. Panther won't run (officially) on any Mac that doesn't have in-built USB.

Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
i think that might as well be because those are slow now a days, and it wouldn't even be worth running panther on it:p

lol. Maybe so, but if they run Jaguar now...and Panther is faster than Jaguar...

AppleMatt

[vrapan]

AppleMat if your singature is true Apple should actually hire you as Marketing consultant of some sort... Imagine that signature as a one full page newspaper add - quite an impact it would have....

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by vrapan
AppleMat if your singature is true Apple should actually hire you as Marketing consultant of some sort... Imagine that signature as a one full page newspaper add - quite an impact it would have....

lol, thanks. If Anyone at Apple is listening...hire me. HIRE ME NOW!!! (No leaking of things to MacRumors I promise)

Ok I've calmed down a bit, here's where I got it from;
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-RTO-rontz&idq=/ff/story/0002%2F20030811%2F200733041.htm&sc=rontz

:)

AppleMatt

[Powerbook G5]

If more people actually knew how many security flaws there were in Windows on their PCs, I seriously doubt they'd be that against looking at a Mac...it's just insane...

[cnladd]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
If more people actually knew how many security flaws there were in Windows on their PCs, I seriously doubt they'd be that against looking at a Mac...it's just insane...

Unfortunately, that's not true. Windows users take it all with the flow. It's expected.

I'm surprised anyone really cared about that Slammer blurb in the .sig (no offense to the person who has it in their .sig), but amongst Windows folks that was fairly common knowledge. Again, it just goes along with running Windows -- security updates and patches are expected.

Everyone knows it's a problem. Windows admins and users make fun of it, think it sucks, but that doesn't stop them from installing the next Windows release.

I'm not sure if you're aware, but there's a much larger security flaw in Windows right now that makes Slammer pale in comparison, and it effects every version of Windows after Windows 95 (except for ME). Here where I work, they're busy patching the 600 or so Windows servers because of it. The UNIX servers sitting right next to them are unaffected, so is my Mac OS X laptop.

That won't stop them from evaluating Windows 2003 Server, nor will it prevent them from looking at implementing Windows on more servers. It also won't stop the project that's trying to convert the UNIX servers to Windows.

And it sure as heck won't make the few dozen people who are responsible for this patching start to look at alternative operating systems.

[vrapan]

Maybe it is only because so many jobs depend on the high demands of windows. Winodws are labor intensive turning them to Mac or Unix even will mean a number of job losses.... so maybe this is an idea.

Actually a couple of years ago while at Uni the psychology department was on Macs while the rest of the uni was running PCs. The psychology department had one admin at any given time for the 150 or so macs they were running. The economics department had 2 for the 40 PCs they had and the computer science department where I took my MSc needed 1 at every lab. The same story was at a company I had a guy i knew. They had some 60 macs and only one admin... Try that with windows the guy will be begging for others lol

[cnladd]

Originally posted by vrapan
The psychology department had one admin at any given time for the 150 or so macs they were running. The economics department had 2 for the 40 PCs they had and the computer science department where I took my MSc needed 1 at every lab. The same story was at a company I had a guy i knew. They had some 60 macs and only one admin... Try that with windows the guy will be begging for others lol

That's been one aspect of my job, determining proper platform as well as trying to determine proper admin:server ratio. It's a striking difference when you look at multiple platforms.

One company I was at had three UNIX administrators that handled 1,500 servers. At this same company there were nine Windows administrators -- they managed 300 systems.

Don't get me wrong -- believe it or not, I really do think that Windows has a place in the enterprise. One of those places is as a desktop environment. Mac OS X is looking more and more to be the perfect solution. It's just a matter of selling people on the idea.

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by cnladd
Unfortunately, that's not true. Windows users take it all with the flow. It's expected.

I'm surprised anyone really cared about that Slammer blurb in the .sig (no offense to the person who has it in their .sig), but amongst Windows folks that was fairly common knowledge. Again, it just goes along with running Windows -- security updates and patches are expected.


None taken ;). I just saw it while looking into the latest worm, it made me laugh and I've never had a sig, so I grabbed it.

I use many Windows systems, and yes, when I run Windows Update I completely expect to see at least one critical update and a few various recommended.

AppleMatt