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cb911
Aug 10, 2003, 11:47 PM
i'm just trying to work out what the specs for the new PB 17" are likely to be.

i'm guessing that they'll use the 7457, so that alone would give it a significant speed increase if all of the documentation from Motorolla is accurate.

does anyone think there will be a big difference in the specs between the Rev.A and Rev. B PowerBook 17"?

i'm guessing that if they use the 7457, they won't be shipping until late September.

so i'm trying to decide now whether or not to get a current PB 17", or if the new PB 15" will be heaps better than the current 17"? (not considering the obvious difference in screen size ;) )

what does everyone think?

cb911
Aug 11, 2003, 02:54 AM
i just checked out the Motorola semi-conductor site. on this (http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=03C1TR046708718653) page there is a table showing all the MPC7XXX processors. the MPC7457 is up there at the top, but... there is no info about it, and it's not available yet.

assuming the rumored updates on the 18-21 of this month are for PB's, how can they have the 7457? would Moto not say they have them ready until Apple already has a certain quantity?

given the amount of time that Apple has waited to update the 15" PB you would think that the new PB's would be awesome to say the least, but this is looking like one of the most dissappointing PowerBook updates ever. :(

arn
Aug 11, 2003, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by cb911
given the amount of time that Apple has waited to update the 15" PB you would think that the new PB's would be awesome to say the least, but this is looking like one of the most dissappointing PowerBook updates ever. :(

Well, what are their options?

They can only use PowerPC processors -- which are made by Motorola and IBM.

Motorola's next processor is this 1.3GHz G4.

IBM's PowerPc 970's are suggested to be too much for the PowerBook at this time.

If the 970's not an option, then the 1.3GHz Motorola Processor is really the only option.

arn

hvfsl
Aug 11, 2003, 04:12 AM
While the cpu may only be 1.3Ghz, there are many other areas the powerbook can be improved:

-Radeon 9600M 128MB (there are already a lot of PC laptops with this much VRAM)
-200Mhz bus
-DDR400 RAM
-Faster superdrive
-USB2
-Bigger Hard Disk
-The new digital audio that supports 5.1 sound from the PM G5s.

jeffosx
Aug 11, 2003, 06:30 AM
Just read an article about the 17inch PB and the author pointed out that you could get a 17inch iMac and a 12 inch ibook for US$500 less than the PB. If you dont need the 17inch PB on the road then its not a bad combo. Changed my mind, im keeping my Ti400 and looking at a g5 for work rather than uprgrading when the 15inchers come out. 2 others at work are doing similar. Now all I need is for them to intro the g5 into a 15inch PB and ill have to go on holidays for a while.

cb911
Aug 11, 2003, 04:33 PM
so the 7457 is the only processor that Apple will use in the PowerBooks? i guess if Apple could have, they would've just done a speed-bump a long time ago.

I guess that the DDR RAM is a certain feature to be included, but what do people think about the 128MB VRAM? that would be sweet, definitely make the wait more bearable.

well it's not long until the 18th now, so i guess we'll have to wait and see.

G5orbust
Aug 11, 2003, 06:05 PM
I dont really know about the CPU choice because we could be really suprised- dont discount the G5 yet!

Potential Components:

Graphics: I think Apple would either opt for the Mobile Radeon 9600 or the nVidia Geforce Go FX 5600, both of which blow the pants off of any current mac mobile graphics chipset and put the laptops in actual competition with the desktop chips with high AA/AF output and superfast graphics performance.

Memory: I think that DDR333 (PC2700) will remain in the powerbook, as dual channel RAM, as well as DDR400 (PC3200), doesnt exist in a SoDIMM form.

Optical drive: Obviously the powerbook will still have a superdrive, though one could assume that the speed of said drive is going to be upped.

Connectors: Base-TX 10/100/1000 Ethernet (gigabit), Firewire 400 and 800, USB 2.0 (backwards compat. with USB 1.1), DVI-I port, S-Video, VGA out (video out), V.92 modem, Airport Extreme (802.11g)----> essentially everything the same except for the addition of USB 2.0



Sound reasonable?

Schiffi
Aug 11, 2003, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by hvfsl
While the cpu may only be 1.3Ghz, there are many other areas the powerbook can be improved:

-Radeon 9600M 128MB (there are already a lot of PC laptops with this much VRAM)
-200Mhz bus
-DDR400 RAM
-Faster superdrive
-USB2
-Bigger Hard Disk
-The new digital audio that supports 5.1 sound from the PM G5s.

If you look, the PowerBook is only 1". I don't know if the 128MB vid ram is that much bigger, but you'd need to account for the heating issues as well. PC laptops are almost twice as thick as Powerbooks, so they can cool the vid card and house it as well. There was originally going to be a 2X superdrive originally, but it was underclocked to 1X because it made it too hot (which had to be extremely hot if they didn't think the current temp wasn't too hot). I think removing the modem will give more internal space (of course providing a BTO usb modem).

MacUser1
Aug 11, 2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by G5orbust
I dont really know about the CPU choice because we could be really suprised- dont discount the G5 yet!

Potential Components:

Graphics: I think Apple would either opt for the Mobile Radeon 9600 or the nVidia Geforce Go FX 5600, both of which blow the pants off of any current mac mobile graphics chipset and put the laptops in actual competition with the desktop chips with high AA/AF output and superfast graphics performance.

Memory: I think that DDR333 (PC2700) will remain in the powerbook, as dual channel RAM, as well as DDR400 (PC3200), doesnt exist in a SoDIMM form.

Optical drive: Obviously the powerbook will still have a superdrive, though one could assume that the speed of said drive is going to be upped.

Connectors: Base-TX 10/100/1000 Ethernet (gigabit), Firewire 400 and 800, USB 2.0 (backwards compat. with USB 1.1), DVI-I port, S-Video, VGA out (video out), V.92 modem, Airport Extreme (802.11g)----> essentially everything the same except for the addition of USB 2.0



Sound reasonable?

if these were the specifications of the new 15" PowerBook as well, i might be the first to buy :D

G5orbust
Aug 11, 2003, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Schiffi
If you look, the PowerBook is only 1". I don't know if the 128MB vid ram is that much bigger, but you'd need to account for the heating issues as well. PC laptops are almost twice as thick as Powerbooks, so they can cool the vid card and house it as well. There was originally going to be a 2X superdrive originally, but it was underclocked to 1X because it made it too hot (which had to be extremely hot if they didn't think the current temp wasn't too hot). I think removing the modem will give more internal space (of course providing a BTO usb modem).

Hopefully they can still keep the 1" case, but, as you said, heat issues are pretty much the only things holding back any sort of progress.

VRAM does not take up any vertical room as much as it takes up horizontal space, but the larger amount of VRAM can still fit into the same amount of space if the individual chips of RAM are doubled in size, effectively doubling the entire RAM cache. Also, that modem does not take up any room inside the case, so I doubt that the modem is high on Apple's elimination list.

cb911
Aug 12, 2003, 01:23 AM
i still think a bit about the G5 coming to PowerBooks... i haven't totally counted it out yet. ;)

lets say the 7457 is ready, and Apple have a sufficient quantity - Moto wouldn't announce that it is in production until the new PB with 7457 is released, right? if that is true then i still have hope for new PowerBooks next week, otherwise just an announcement. :(

abdul
Aug 12, 2003, 05:39 AM
apple are seriously messed up i the head if they dont use the g5 in the new pb. im sorry but people have been waiting for over a year for a new chip, the chip arrives and then still the pro-line uses the old g4 with a speed increase of a max of 0.3GHz.

they should use the g5 in the pb and get the ibook moved onto the 1ghz new moto g4 cos the g3 doesnt even use alvite, something they want software developers to use, and something the os uses.

giving the option of a 1200 laptop that might be outdated by next april, which also had a update of 100mhz after its last product cycle finished it rap to say the least.

...and plese dont say 'i got a 700mhz ibook and works great' cos when i had a 700mhz pentium i thought it worked great, but now im using my bro's 2.6GHz one i think it works a lot better! theoretically its like dell making computers that run at 500mhz and next os update to be Longhorn which runs on a computer with a minimum of 600mhz.

Apple control both the os and the hardware they shouldnt be making fools of their users!

their os might be great but what they offer their users in aspcts of harsware CRAP and we pay alot more for the harsware than the software!

pstoehr
Aug 12, 2003, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by abdul
apple are seriously messed up i the head if they dont use the g5 in the new pb. im sorry but people have been waiting for over a year for a new chip, the chip arrives and then still the pro-line uses the old g4 with a speed increase of a max of 0.3GHz.

they should use the g5 in the pb and get the ibook moved onto the 1ghz new moto g4 cos the g3 doesnt even use alvite, something they want software developers to use, and something the os uses.

As far as I can see there is no chance for a G5 in a Powerbook right now. The G5 gets definitely to hot :-(
Maybe next spring ...

Peter

Kwyjibo
Aug 12, 2003, 10:03 AM
You know, I'm glad the G5 won't be in the powerbook anytime soon because it will keep the costs done. If they put a G5 in all the powerbooks cost would atleast jump back up to what they were and maybe even higher. I think right now the price are actually in a great harmony (exept the 17" a little high) but yeah the laptops are not extremely overpriced when stacked with features of a PC counterpart and that is great. Apple needs to be fixing other problems tho in the laptop line,
expanding battery life (centrino style)
improving graphics
superdrive burning speed if possible
wifi range on the tiBook.

If they could improve all of the above, keep the current price, and bump it .3 ghz I would be supremely impressed

abdul
Aug 12, 2003, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by Kwyjibo
You know, I'm glad the G5 won't be in the powerbook anytime soon because it will keep the costs done. If they put a G5 in all the powerbooks cost would atleast jump back up to what they were and maybe even higher. I think right now the price are actually in a great harmony (exept the 17" a little high) but yeah the laptops are not extremely overpriced when stacked with features of a PC counterpart and that is great. Apple needs to be fixing other problems tho in the laptop line,
expanding battery life (centrino style)
improving graphics
superdrive burning speed if possible
wifi range on the tiBook.

If they could improve all of the above, keep the current price, and bump it .3 ghz I would be supremely impressed

you must be easily impressed as the ppl who use panther already say that their battery life has increased. the graphics chip needs to be updated in the 15" anyway as it hasnt since......
and superdrive burning speeds really depens on sony and pioneer. as the 15" also hasnt got the new airport in tats done as well...but ti? it will be Al.

maybe that is also why the price has gone down they are now using Alu-min-ium instead of ti-tanium.

job
Aug 12, 2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by hvfsl
Radeon 9600M 128MB (there are already a lot of PC laptops with this much VRAM)

Why would they put 128MB VRAM in the Powerbook, when the desktop version of the 9600 in the G5s only have 64MB?

cb911
Aug 12, 2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by job
Why would they put 128MB VRAM in the Powerbook, when the desktop version of the 9600 in the G5s only have 64MB?

that's a good point, but don't forget that you can get a 9800 Pro 128MB card as a build-to-order option in the G5 PowerMac. i'm guessing that Apple will stick with the 64MB VRAM, and if they have room for it i hope they offer 128MB VRAM as a B.T.O.

and why are people always saying that the 970 is way too hot to run in a PB? it wasn't that long ago that people were looking at all the specs and figured out that if it ran at around 1.3GHz (maybe it was a bit less) it would put out the same amount of heat as the current TiBooks. as well as the fact that is seems that the 970 was specifically designed as a mobile chip. doesn't it have some kick-ass power management stuff?

but, i realize that there are other things to consider other than the proc, such as the controller chip etc. and considering the amount of time Apple has gone without an update, i don't think they'd spend that time just not working, i'm sure they're alot more ahead with the G5 PB development than alot of people will give them credit for.

G5orbust
Aug 12, 2003, 09:28 PM
Ill tell you how they fit the 128 MB inside there. Its the exact same principle as making larger main RAM chips without having to make the DIMMs longer to accomidate the individual chips.

http://www.emperorlinux.com/images/ram-dimm133-256.jpg

Now, you see those black rectangles on that SoDIMM? Those are the individual chips that, as a whole, comprise the RAM as we know it in its megabyte per chip amount.

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20020208/images/card_s.jpg

Now, you see this graphics card? It has those same black, rectangular chips that the main RAM has, just these make up the video RAM buffer for the graphics card.

But, the property these chips have is the ability to increase size per black rectangular chip.

Example: You have a 128 MB SoDIMM that has four of those black, rectangular chips on it. Now, you look at a 256 MB SoDIMM and that has the same number of black, rectuangular chips. So, now you must be wondering how that is possible. It is possible by pumping of the size of those individual black rectangles. The 128 MB chip has 32 MB per black rectangle chip. The 256 MB, however has 64 MB per chip, effectively doubling what the 128 MB had in the same amount of space.

That is the same thing with a laptop's VRAM capacity. The only issue with upping the amount is heat.