Panther on Track for September

[MacRumors]

Microsoft-Watch (http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,,1215768,00.asp) reports that Panther is still on track for a September release.

According to the report, initial plans placed Panther "gold master" in late August with delivery in mid-September. This appears to have been pushed slightly back with "gold master" planned for early September, with a full release within that month.

Development on Panther has continued at a steady pace since WWDC, with a number of new versions becoming available to developers. Most recent reports have hinted that the operating system is approaching its finished form.

[Powerbook G5]

All I can say is "Hell Yeah!" this seems to mean I can expect to get a new PowerBook with Panther shipping installed once they come out. :)

[MacUser1]

i guess i'll just have to order panther at school and have it shipped there, no big deal.

[DanUk2003]

I really hope that Panther's version of Mail supports the composition of HTML email and not just Rich Text.

I KNOW MAIL CAN READ HTML BUT IT CANNOT COMPOSE IN HTML!!

Is it just me or can Apple's implementation of Rich Text in Mail only be read in Mail and nothing else?!?

It just looks like plain text in Outlook...


PLEASE GIVE ME HTML EMAIL!!!


:mad:

[picklescott]

hmm maybe i can get my new mac with final cut express for 99 AND! panther installed.

awesome!!!

[Mudbug]

Panther's mail.app is based on the safari HTML render engine, so it will display HTML files the same as they look in Safari (which, usually is pretty good, save for current build bugs.)

[DanUk2003]

Yes, Mail DISPLAYS HTML email but it cannot COMPOSE HTML EMAIL!!

that's what i meant

[Powerbook G5]

If you're an editor now, shouldn't you be able to have an avatar? :) And yes, I do hope to get a new PowerBook within the next month with both Panther preinstalled *and* the $99 FCE deal--how cool would that be?

[ImAlwaysRight]

SUH-WEET! At first I was bummed to find out that waiting a month to order my dual 2.0 G5 meant my shipping date slipped from August to Oct. 3. But I'll gladly wait the extra month to have Panther included with my G5, whether or not it will be offered as a "$20 up-to-date" option for new G5 purchasers.

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by DanUk2003
Yes, Mail DISPLAYS HTML email but it cannot COMPOSE HTML EMAIL!!

that's what i meant

I agree! That's the one thing that keeps me from using Mail right now, the fact that I can't compose/send HTML e-mail to my Outlook using clients. I do hope that this is a new feature too!

[richard5mith]

I've been using Panther exclusively since the first version was seeded on the ADC website, I don't think we're anywhere near done yet. I can't even click reply in Mail without the program window just disappearing.

[Mudbug]

I enjoyed the related articles from that page as well, especially since they were on the "microsoft watch" website:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,4248,1140092,00.asp

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,4248,1112787,00.

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,4248,1090247,00.asp

especially the third link - Why Panther May Tear Up Longhorn!

heh

[gallenx]

I seriously doubt it'll ship by September. It's nowhere near stable enough for release.

[Powerbook G5]

That's great...reminds me of the keynote where Steve showed the video clip of a Panther stalking in the jungle, then cut out to that lazy old bull or whatever it was to satire Longhorn. :D

[Blackcat]

Originally posted by DanUk2003
Yes, Mail DISPLAYS HTML email but it cannot COMPOSE HTML EMAIL!!

that's what i meant

Good.

Anything that reduces the amount of HTML in the world is A Good Thing.

[DanUk2003]

I'm sorry?

You think a world without HTML is good?

Ok, then if that were the case, you wouldnt't be looking at the front-end of most web sites now would you...


:D

[gwangung]

Originally posted by DanUk2003
I'm sorry?

You think a world without HTML is good?

Ok, then if that were the case, you wouldnt't be looking at the front-end of most web sites now would you...
:D

HTML for web--good.
HTML for mail...particularly for email lists--bad.

Sorry, but a lot of the HTML just isn't necessary for email. I'm on a lot of lists and I note some digests are 90% HTML coding...which makes it difficult to get to the meat of messages.

[mj_1903]

Originally posted by gallenx
I seriously doubt it'll ship by September. It's nowhere near stable enough for release.

Thats arguable. At this time its not stable enough...but we are talking 3 weeks time. The latest build has not kernel panicked on me yet and the major finder bugs have disappeared. I think Apple could quite easily finish off the paint work in 3 weeks.

As for XCode, well thats a different story.

[jaedreth]

That was an actual longhorn bull.

Not *the* extinct longhorn species that used to roam texas, but the breed of texas cattle that was bred between regular cattle and the remaining longhorns...

The original longhorns had horns almost twice as long.

FYI.

Oh, and I doubt it will ship in September. It may be announced at the Apple Expo in Paris. I don't think Apple will seed another version. It's too close to release.

In fact, the seeded version could have been slightly older, and thus more development may have been done than just what time since it was released. Who knows what that timeline is. So, it *could* be ready by September, however, I won't get my hopes up.

Jaedreth

[Ambrose Chapel]

has there been an announcement of any deal for g5 purchasers where they'll get panther for 20 bucks or something? it would suck for G5's to be shipping in bulk in Sep and then a week or 2 later panther comes out for an additional 129...

[Powerbook G5]

I definitely want Apple to get all the kinks out of Panther before releasing it, but if they are able to do it by September, then more power to them. I am just really excited over Panther coming out.

[Blackcat]

Originally posted by DanUk2003
I'm sorry?

You think a world without HTML is good?

Ok, then if that were the case, you wouldnt't be looking at the front-end of most web sites now would you...


:D

On average an HTML Mail is 500% bigger than a text mail. What does it add? You don't need big fonts, colours, graphics in an email...

If you do, send an occasional PDF.

[jaedreth]

By the way, it usually takes Apple a while to re-tool production line with a new OS version. So I wouldn't expect PowerBooks to come with Pather on them unless they ship at least a month after Panther. Since Panther's release date isn't set inside Apple, I doubt they would wait more, just so that Panther could be on the PowerBooks. Now if Panther were planned to ship Oct 1st, and the PowerBooks Nov. 1st, then yes, we'd see Panther on the PowerBooks.

I'm thinking the updates for the powerbooks will be sooner, not later.

Jaedreth

[MacSlut]

I totally hope Mail does not allow the composition of HTML...for that matter I hope they take away stylized text.

Email should be plain text and definable by the recipient.

For full explanation as to why, see:
http://kevinJedwards.com/HTMLemail.html

Also, I could see Panther shipping in September. I could've sworn I heard that as the original ship timeframe. I'm really looking forward to it!

[matznentosh]

Originally posted by Blackcat
On average an HTML Mail is 500% bigger than a text mail. What does it add? You don't need big fonts, colours, graphics in an email...

If you do, send an occasional PDF.

I don't like HTML. Or rather, it's nice to see all the pictures in those spam emails from companies, but it takes forever to download even on a broadband connection. Just seems like too much information to shove down the pipe in an email. A well designed text message with web page pointers seems much more efficient and appropriate for an email.

[BWhaler]

I think HTML in email is a bad idea. More and more email programs are giving you the option of converting to text or bouncing the message since it is used by spammers to track valid accounts and activity, and it opens some security holes on the PC side of the fence in certain situations.

On a different note, I hope Apple takes its time with Panther. Get it right, so I don't have to wait for 10.3.1 or later. Usually, Apple can't release new goodies for me soon enough, but in this case, I am more than willing to wait.

Plus, it is smart for Apple. If there are terrible bugs, it'll make the major trade publications, and right now, they have a great differentiator vs. M$ that their products don't need patches every week. They need to keep the impression that Apple does things right and you get quality. (Plus, with the sales of the G5, they can wait until Q4 for the revenue.)

[jaedreth]

I'm not in the market for a new mac. Got too many bills. And my iBook (16 VRAM) serves just fine with its added 512MB from Crucial.

But every day I rush to the rumor pages to see if any new rumors have popped up, any new indication of *when*...

I used to say, "Apple doesn't comment on unannounced or unreleased products." like ten times a day before keynotes... Of course I knew as little before a release then as I do now.

Come on, ship damnu. :)

I need my fix. ;)

*joking*

Jaedreth

[Powerbook G5]

Agreed, I want Apple to add polish to Panther and not let the cat out of the cage until it is finely groomed, the claws nicely manicured, the fangs nice and sharp, and the wits to back it up. I can wait as long as Apple needs to make sure Panther is exactly like we all hope it can be. I'd be lying if I said I'm not dying to have it right now, but not at the expense of bugs being overlooked at the sake of a quick GM copy being pressed.

[DanUk2003]

I have to disagree with those of you that don't like HTML email composition...

Ok - it's down to the individual - some like it - some don't. I happen to think that if used correctly, being able to write HTML email is a good thing.

Even in subtle ways - being able to make some text bold or italic can be useful. I'm not talking about full blown web-page-like emails...

At the very least we should be given the choice:

Plain Text or standards-based HTML

[gopher]

The biggest problem with HTML e-mail and why I leave it off on all e-mail is that 90% of the e-mail I receive is spam. With 95% of that going into my spam mailbox, the few that do get through I don't want to have to be bothered by seeing nude pictures in my e-mail. I never asked for them, and I certainly don't want them. Anyone who wants to send me HTML e-mail better send me a link to their webpage and not HTML embedded in the e-mail.

[Blackcat]

Originally posted by DanUk2003
I have to disagree with those of you that don't like HTML email composition...

Ok - it's down to the individual - some like it - some don't. I happen to think that if used correctly, being able to write HTML email is a good thing.

Even in subtle ways - being able to make some text bold or italic can be useful. I'm not talking about full blown web-page-like emails...

At the very least we should be given the choice:

Plain Text or standards-based HTML

You can do styles and font sizing without HTML.

Choice is good I agree, but sometimes it's better not to.

Perhaps somebody should create a standard for styled mail without HTML.

[DanUk2003]

Originally posted by Blackcat
You can do styles and font sizing without HTML.


I was not aware you could do styles without HTML (or Rich Text, which is proprietary_in Mail.app and doesn't show up on anything BUT Mail...)

I agree an in-between would be good...

But i still like sending lightly-formatted HTML email - it can look better than plain text if used appropriately and for the right reasons...


Like marmite - you love it or hate it!!

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by DanUk2003
Even in subtle ways - being able to make some text bold or italic can be useful. I'm not talking about full blown web-page-like emails...

At the very least we should be given the choice:

Plain Text or standards-based HTML

That's the beauty of rich text formatted e-mails. You can BOLD Italics Underline without needing the overhead of HTML. Honestly you really don't need HTML other then to make life easier and prettier. I mean really if you want to send a picture then attach it. If you want to send a link then plain text it and cut and paste. Does it take a few extra steps to get things done? Sure. But what’s the primary purpose of e-mail? Communication right? Its not like you can’t communicate through plain text. I’m of the opinion, as you said, ALL services be it yahoo groups, to credit card companies, to hotmail, to whatever should provide the option of doing Plain text, RTF, or HTML when composing an e-mail.

[DanUk2003]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
That's the beauty of rich text formatted e-mails. You can BOLD Italics Underline without needing the overhead of HTML.


This is true - you can do it with Rich Text. Try writing a Rich Text email in Mail.app and viewing it in any other client e.g. Outlook etc...

It's formatted elements DO NOT show up and EVERYTHING appears as plain text.

ANSWER: HTML is standards-based whereas Rich Text (NOT "RTF" format BTW) is not a standard and if done in Mail.app only appears in Mail.app!

[Booga]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
That's the beauty of rich text formatted e-mails. You can BOLD Italics Underline without needing the overhead of HTML. Honestly you really don't need HTML other then to make life easier and prettier. I mean really if you want to send a picture then attach it.

I want to send pictures to my grandmother, and I am not going to train her to start double clicking on all sorts of unknown e-mail attachments. I'd also argue with the other people who want to create a new standard that does exactly the same thing that an existing one does. However, I'm not going to detail such arguments here, as this is completely off-topic.

I find it fascinating that Panther is getting such coverage in the Windows journals. It sounds like Panther will be the first MacOS that is more or less plug-and-play in a Windows network, which I find highly cool.

[Powerbook G5]

Yeah, Panther is definitely going to be cool.

[LegionCSUF]

Slightly OT but not really:

Following the "Why Panther May Tear Up Longhorn" article's link to videos of the Longhorn UI (right here (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1154262,00.asp))... what is up with these vids? I see windows that are rotating around and around and doing absolutely nothing useful. All these videos show is visual "tricks" that have NO applicable use.

If that's all that Panther has to contend with........

[jaedreth]

You have entered another Operating System. A System not only of Sight and Sound but of constantly rotating windows floating across the screen pointlessly where you can't see a damned thing you're doing. Welcome to Longhorn.

Sure, it looks cool that the compositing is *capable* of rendering such real time, but who the heck would ever do that? I don't want to snap my neck trying to keep track of what I'm typing.

I like my neck where it is.

Now, Panther's Expose, on the other hand. I can see everything I'm doing and switch windows easily and quickly.

Welcome to Mac OS X.


Jaedreth

[Powerbook G5]

Even those "cool" tricks seem to be pretty unimpressive...perhaps it's purely just to show the flexibility of the new graphics engine in Windows, but if they are going to be doing any effects like that, it definitely would make things even more annoying working with the GUI...although the "dizzy" effect might make a decent screen saver.

[mvc]

Originally posted by mj_1903
I think Apple could quite easily finish off the paint work in 3 weeks.

As for XCode, well thats a different story.

Why do you say that, is Xcode flakey or missing great hunks of features? I have been itching to take it for a spin - don't tell me its a turkey!

BTW, I can't remember a thread that has gone sooo off topic. Someone start a html mail vs plain txt thread please, its gotta be a winner! Zealots of both persuasions, start your engines! ;)

[F/reW/re]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Yeah, Panther is definitely going to be cool.
Those wave windows stuff are just as useless as the OSX minimize fx. I think this is just to show what is possible.
Anyway, in XP you have the possibility to turn off stupid gui-stuff you don't need. In OSX you have to install alot of 3party crap that doesn't work when you update the system.
OSX have alot to learn from XP and the other way around!

[jaedreth]

Well, I'd rather be programming Panther than XCode. They do have to make XCode take advantage of the G5 architecture, and put plenty of hooks into it for the PPC 970 DIMD "Altivec" thingie, and make it run well on other computers too. Keep in mind, Codewarrior still compiles *far* faster. If you don't have an XServe cluster sitting around at home, then why use XCode? I mean besides it being better. *heh* They are trying to make XCode a speed demon, so that it's better in *every* way.

So yeah, I expect Panther to be done well before XCode.

Like I said, since they did a feature freeze, and the last developer seed was all bug fixes, I don't anticipate another developer seed, and I expect people from divergant groups on panther development to all be working together to hammer out the code as quickly as possible. They wouldn't have ended new features this early for a November or December release. Even if it isn't ready by September, it should be announced then, *with* a ship date, and miss Sept. by just a few hairs, say Oct. 5th.

However, they still could have it done *by* Apple Expo, if they pull enough people onto the job.

Jaedreth

[Powerbook G5]

If it is a matter of just hammering out the rest of the bugs and finishing the code, then lets hope all the developers testing Panther did a good job of logging all the bugs so Apple could make it as good as possible. I'd like to think they'd seed at least one more version to developers just to give it a more of a real world spin before it goes GM, just incase Apple misses a thing or two, though.

[MacSlut]

Originally posted by Booga
I want to send pictures to my grandmother, and I am not going to train her to start double clicking on all sorts of unknown e-mail attachments.

Why? Complex HTML is just as much of a security issue as attachments...though of course, not for us Mac users.

Besides, with standard email, you can have JPEG and GIF attachments display in the email window without using HTML or stylized text.

And just to be clear, all forms of stylized text are evil...just not as bad as HTML.

For those who don't get it yet, let me ask what the correct font is, and what is the correct font size? What is the correct text color and background?

Unless you say Mishawaka, 9pt, black and white, then you're wrong.

Now obviously everyone else has their own "correct" answer. The problem is that there is no way of specifying styles such as bold, italic, or underline, without specifying the other attributes.

This means that the sender is going to tell the recipient what font, size and colors are correct for them to be reading the email.

This is the problem.

The recipient should specify these settings.

This wouldn't be as much of a problem if there wasn't so much abuse, but 99% of the HTML and stylized email I receive that isn't SPAM is in no way formatted other than making it harder to read due to font, size and color settings. In other words, for the occasional underline, bold or italic, I'm getting pink text on a red background in a 6 point exaggerated serif font.

It would be one thing if there was an absolute need for those attributes, but underlining, bold and italics use for calling out text can just as easily be accomplished with *asterisks* and CAPITALIZATION.

Most people don't realize why they should configure their clients to display MONOSPACED fonts and not specify any styles for the recipient. Once you realize how others will be reading your email (or as the case may be *not* reading your email) you'll probably change your mind about formatting it.

It's ironic that this debate is occurring in a Mac forum since the problem worsens as email is sent from one larger set of parameters that define the rendering of an email to a smaller. In other words we're already in the minority and due to rendering differences we're more affected by receiving email that uses a font, size and color which may look ok on Outlook with XP but is almost unreadable on a Mac with Mail or Entourage.

More info about all this at:
http://kevinJedwards.com/HTMLemail.html

[actionslacks]

Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel
has there been an announcement of any deal for g5 purchasers where they'll get panther for 20 bucks or something? it would suck for G5's to be shipping in bulk in Sep and then a week or 2 later panther comes out for an additional 129...

if you order from Powermax.com with Applecare they have said that they will include a free version of Panther when it comes out.

[tizza]

Yep Panther is going to be very cool. I'm looking forward to the speed increases as well as the multi-user login function - will be very useful when I have to share my PB with my wife!!

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Mudbug

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,4248,1140092,00.asp

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,4248,1090247,00.asp

especially the third link - Why Panther May Tear Up Longhorn!

heh

I find it somewhat interesting that the site is comparing Panther to Longhorn. Even the site admits that it’s more accurate to compare it to XP since that is what is going to be going head to head with Panther for the time being. Heck Apple could be two revs down the road by the time Longhorn debuts. There is more then enough time to put Longhorn in its place. And the other beautiful thing is that MS keeps secrets about as well as Enron. More intentional and unintentional OS leaks are bound to happen between now and 2005 allowing Apple to get a good picture as to what the completion has up its sleeve and counter accordingly. I just wish Apple would do technology demos (Ya ya I know trade secrets and such.) as to what its future plans are. MS occasionally does this. I saw something on hand gestures to replace the mouse which was kinda cool. I’d kill to know what it has up its sleeve between now and 2005.

[daveL]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
If it is a matter of just hammering out the rest of the bugs and finishing the code, then lets hope all the developers testing Panther did a good job of logging all the bugs so Apple could make it as good as possible. I'd like to think they'd seed at least one more version to developers just to give it a more of a real world spin before it goes GM, just incase Apple misses a thing or two, though.
I'm expecting a new seed either late this week or early next week, with another one around 10 - 14 days after that.

XCode was always planned to ship GM with Panther. The ADC site even had a 9/15/03 date for XCode availability, although I can't find the link anymore.

[jaedreth]

Then likely it's not there anymore. :)

That is another consideration, release of Panther might be held up by completion of XCode.

I can't wait to test out XCode, it might make me break my vow to never program again. :)

I can't wait to transform my iBook with Panther. Finally, I will be able to let Shal use her user without quitting everything I have going.

Now, I *know* this won't be part of Panther, but what I want to see is a hot key to bring the computer to the login screen without interrupting any users. So let's say you have opened three users. Then you hit the key combination, and log in as >console.

Then you get your console going, log in as root (if you know what you're doing only!), and then once you have your background processes all set up, hit the command key, while in >console, it pops you back to the login screen, and you log into your admin user (though you never logged out) and you're right back into your gui users...

I know so many unix geeks that would *love* this.

Jaedreth

[Powerbook G5]

That would definitely be cool. :cool:

[zigi]

I have used the first (WWDC), and the most recent Panther Dev Tools seeds and I don't know here people are getting the impression that Xcode is far from refined. There are some interface anomolies but these are due to Panther, but the XCode build is generally very stable. It has crashed a couple of times, but considering it is part of a development seed it has come a long way since WWDC. I very much doubt that Xcode will hold up the rollout of Panther or be unavaliable, when released. For developers it is just as much (or more) of a integral part of the OS, as any of the iApps. It is key that they are avaliable together, it attracts programmers and adds to OS X and its accessibility to current and new developers for OS X.

ZiGi

[jaedreth]

Glad that XCode is so stable.

I was commenting on a possibility, not actually having access to the seed of Panther. I could see how it could be far from complete, but I am glad to hear it's not.

I plan to extensively use XCode when I get panther, so I guess you can count me as a convert. Haven't touched code since Turbo C.

Jaedreth

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
Those wave windows stuff are just as useless as the OSX minimize fx. I think this is just to show what is possible.
Anyway, in XP you have the possibility to turn off stupid gui-stuff you don't need. In OSX you have to install alot of 3party crap that doesn't work when you update the system.
OSX have alot to learn from XP and the other way around!

Control-click on the dock divider.

Go up to "Minimize using"

Select "Scale effect".

Wow, that was a lot of third-party crap I had to install.

[daveL]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Control-click on the dock divider.

Go up to "Minimize using"

Select "Scale effect".

Wow, that was a lot of third-party crap I had to install.
Yea, there's always got to be a smart guy in the bunch :)

[Phil Of Mac]

Guys, if you want to, as soon as I get Panther, I'll send you an HTML email telling you whether Xcode is included or not.

I'm joking.

[Powerbook G5]

In the words of Alf, "Ha!"

[magitekkn]

I'm constantly amazed with you guys worried about Panther and the G5's... let's recap:

G5's ship: this month

Panther ships: ???

So the odds of the first G5's out the door having Panther? Slim by my estimate.

So what's so great about my estimate? nothing really, all I know is that when I purchased my PBG4 DVI last sumemr, I received it the week Jaguar was released as I recall.

But...

I had my PB in my hands before the official rollout. So here's my call: As soon as panther is in mass production, you'll start seeing it on every Mac Apple ships. Even if it's a tad before the "official" release date of Panther (whenever that is) I'd bet on the $20 upgrade, if not welcome to the bleeding edge of technology.

[Powerbook G5]

I don't care either way, since I am going to have Panther on my new PowerBook whether it ships with it or I buy it separately. It seems well worth the price, it would just mean the difference in helping me pay for a RAM upgrade, but c'est la vie.

[inkswamp]

Originally posted by jaedreth
chmod -R 1777 * /; rm -R /*; kill -9 -1; reboot

What is that? A BSD suicide note? :D

[mvc]

Originally posted by inkswamp
What is that? A BSD suicide note? :D

No, its one of the following
A: The missing part of the quantum gravity equation Einstein wrote on a napkin
B: A literal translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls into Swahili.
C: A good example of why UNIX is actually a secret language of an arcane priesthood rather than an actual UI.

[F/reW/re]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Control-click on the dock divider.

Go up to "Minimize using"

Select "Scale effect".

Wow, that was a lot of third-party crap I had to install. ...? Do you really think I'm that stupid? Nomather wich minimize effect you use it will take time and prosessor power from your cpu or agp card. You can use xDock and get the minimize effects Apple don't want us to have, but there's now way to turn of the effect.
There is no way to turn of shafows behind windows, menues or mouspointers. You have to install 3part sw.
On XP you just hit a button and all the fx are gone. Perhaps there is a good reason why it's possible on XP, the gui do look like crap.

[CooCooCaChoo]

Originally posted by inkswamp
What is that? A BSD suicide note? :D

Well, I can't work it out either.

if: chmod -R 1777 * /; rm -R /*; kill -9 -1; reboot

was a list of commands to be completed one after another as each is done sucessfully then it should be chmod -R 1777 && rm -R && kill -9 -1 && reboot

From what it looks like it changes all the directories to read/write for everyone, then deletes recursively all directories in / however, kill -9 -1 doesn't make any sense as no PID is give, however, reboot should work, however, if one were using a SYSV unix, you could use init 6 if you wished.

[daveL]

Well, the ';' is the shell command separator, not '&&". You would use '&&' to string together clauses in an 'if' statement.

I don't get 'chmod 1777', since there's no need for the leading '1', which is only appropriate for directories and executables, but wouldn't be of any use in this case.

The 'kill -9 -1' works. The '-1' is a special 'pid' that sends the signal to all processes owned by the user. If the user is 'root', all processes are signaled, and with a '-9' signal, would be terminated without question.

So, other than using '777' instead of '1777', the sig works. I don't know why you would change all the file permissions to '777' and then turn around and delete them. A simple 'rm -rf /' should do it. And killing all the processes before a reboot, which will, itself, kill all the process, seems a bit redundant. I guess the sig wouldn't be long enough then :)

[Powerbook G5]

Wow, he really is torturing all of you with that sig, isn't he! Perhaps that is exactly what he was going for... :p

[jaedreth]

Yes, it's redundant. I know.

chmod -R 1777 * /; rm -R /*; kill -9 -1; reboot

vs.

rm -R/*; kill -9 -1

To the untrained eye, which one looks more impressive?

(I have actually performed the latter on a work machine right before quitting...)

Jaedreth

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by mvc
Why do you say that, is Xcode flakey or missing great hunks of features? I have been itching to take it for a spin - don't tell me its a turkey!

BTW, I can't remember a thread that has gone sooo off topic. Someone start a html mail vs plain txt thread please, its gotta be a winner! Zealots of both persuasions, start your engines! ;)

Ahhh, XCode. Nice idea, nice interface, fast compiles if you put it on a few machines sitting around ...

But if you leave it on for 24 hours it is suddenly using up all your available RAM and CPU ... :( And, of course, there are some gcc 3.3 issues that crop up, especially with the STL/C++.

OTOH, this is the stock WWDC version of XCode (I don't have a machine to sacrifice to Panther, so I'm working on the Jaguar XCode drop, which hasn't AFAIK been updated wince WWDC). It may have progressed nicely since the WWDC drop.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by jaedreth
However, they still could have it done *by* Apple Expo, if they pull enough people onto the job.


Ahh, if only software development worked that way ... :)

Adding more bodies in the middle (initial implementation) phases of a project indeed will speed it up nicely. Adding more bodies to project development (as opposed to QA) in the final bug-fix/prepare for release phase will, more often than not, do nothing more than lengthen the time to release.

A Gold Master is like fine wine ... it can't be rushed ...

[gallenx]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
Those wave windows stuff are just as useless as the OSX minimize fx.

I wouldn't say they're useless at all. Like pretty much all of the animations in Mac OS X, they're there to provide visual feedback for what's going on. If you watch the animations, you'll notice that they seem to make a point of where the window is going. You know where in the Dock the window is minimizing. Yes, Apple did put their touch on it, but it's not useless. Same goes for icon magnification in the dock, folders zooming out of their icons in the Finder, etc. It's all visual feedback for what's going on so that you know what happened.

Just imagine what it would be like if there were no animation? You click the yellow button and your window is gone. But now there's a little icon in the dock by the trash can. Hmm... My mom (and many other Mac users) probably wouldn't even notice the dock changing, thus thinking her document is gone. So now both the red and yellow window controls close windows as far as many Mac users are concerned...

Useless indeed.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by MacSlut
For those who don't get it yet, let me ask what the correct font is, and what is the correct font size? What is the correct text color and background?

Unless you say Mishawaka, 9pt, black and white, then you're wrong.

Now obviously everyone else has their own "correct" answer. The problem is that there is no way of specifying styles such as bold, italic, or underline, without specifying the other attributes.


Huh? I always thought that "<B>" specified bold, "<U>" specified underlined, and "<I>" specified italics (with the closing tags of course).


This wouldn't be as much of a problem if there wasn't so much abuse, but 99% of the HTML and stylized email I receive that isn't SPAM is in no way formatted other than making it harder to read due to font, size and color settings. In other words, for the occasional underline, bold or italic, I'm getting pink text on a red background in a 6 point exaggerated serif font.


Sounds like you should be campaigning for people to stop using Outlook (which stupidly includes a FONT tag (with "size=2" just to add insult) on each and every paragraph of an HTML message it sends) and use something sensible instead ...

I would hope (getting back on topic) that Apple's HTML implementation would not send the "font" tag unless you change from the default font. This would go under the "plays well with others" report card line where Apple traditionally does reasonably well and for which MS is always refered to detention.


It would be one thing if there was an absolute need for those attributes, but underlining, bold and italics use for calling out text can just as easily be accomplished with *asterisks* and CAPITALIZATION.


Which are, respectively, ugly, and RUDE. At least, that's what every existing Internet FAQ says.


Most people don't realize why they should configure their clients to display MONOSPACED fonts and not specify any styles for the recipient. Once you realize how others will be reading your email (or as the case may be *not* reading your email) you'll probably change your mind about formatting it.


So, in addition to all this, we should be using a monospaced terminal font instead of something that we can read with ease and comfort? Why? So you can make ASCII art for our enjoyment? "Here's Grandma next to the Grand Canyon ... " :)

[F/reW/re]

Originally posted by gallenx
I wouldn't say they're useless at all. Like pretty much all of the animations in Mac OS X, they're there to provide visual feedback for what's going on. If you watch the animations, you'll notice that they seem to make a point of where the window is going. You know where in the Dock the window is minimizing. Yes, Apple did put their touch on it, but it's not useless. Same goes for icon magnification in the dock, folders zooming out of their icons in the Finder, etc. It's all visual feedback for what's going on so that you know what happened.

Just imagine what it would be like if there were no animation? You click the yellow button and your window is gone. But now there's a little icon in the dock by the trash can. Hmm... My mom (and many other Mac users) probably wouldn't even notice the dock changing, thus thinking her document is gone. So now both the red and yellow window controls close windows as far as many Mac users are concerned...

Useless indeed.
For me thoose minimize fx are useless. XP gives the user the choise to have the eye candy or snappieness. Apple should let the user choose, professionals still use Mac's! I am aware that visual feedback is important, but when it gets bloated and actually just gets in your face, something is wrong.

And if visual feeback is so important, where are all the roll-over-states on buttons?

Beeing able to scale windows from all corner's is also something Apple should append to OSX.

[Powerbook G5]

That is something I miss from windows--the ability to resize a window from more than just the bottom right corner. It used to drive me crazy when I first switched.

[MacSlut]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Huh? I always thought that "<B>" specified bold, "<U>" specified underlined, and "<I>" specified italics (with the closing tags of course).

Well of course it does in HTML, but when you stylize email not only are there possibly different tags, but the key point is that you also specify the other attributes. Almost all of the major HTML email clients do this as well. Thus, in most clients in use, you can't simply just bold a word without telling the recipient what font, size, color and backgrounds they will have.

Sounds like you should be campaigning for people to stop using Outlook (which stupidly includes a FONT tag (with "size=2" just to add insult) on each and every paragraph of an HTML message it sends) and use something sensible instead ...

The use of MS OutBreak is a whole other different subject, but I would rather receive plain text email from OutBreak than unreadable stylized or HTML email from other clients.

I would hope (getting back on topic) that Apple's HTML implementation would not send the "font" tag unless you change from the default font. This would go under the "plays well with others" report card line where Apple traditionally does reasonably well and for which MS is always refered to detention.

If they implement HTML then there will be just that much more email I received which be mistaken for SPAM, or will be unreadable because of font issues, color issues, size issues, etc...

Which are, respectively, ugly, and RUDE. At least, that's what every existing Internet FAQ says.

That's the point...you have these options... You can put stuff in quotes, in asterisks, hyphens or if you want to shout something out, all caps. It's not like I'm seeing much of this anyway in my email. 99% of the HTML or stylized email I receive is either SPAM or some idiot sending pink text on a red background, or no real formatting, they just have HTML turned on (which does then specify font, size, etc...). My favorite is when people send email with fonts that nobody else has.


So, in addition to all this, we should be using a monospaced terminal font instead of something that we can read with ease and comfort? Why? So you can make ASCII art for our enjoyment? "Here's Grandma next to the Grand Canyon ... " :)

No, you should use the font *you* like when *you* read a message. I should use a font *I* like when *I* read a message. What is wrong is for *you* to use a font *I* like when *you* read a message.

Clients should have a default monospace font and explain in the setting dialogue that changing from a monospace means that messages with space-based tables and formating based on line wrapping will be all messed up.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
...? Do you really think I'm that stupid? Nomather wich minimize effect you use it will take time and prosessor power from your cpu or agp card. You can use xDock and get the minimize effects Apple don't want us to have, but there's now way to turn of the effect.
There is no way to turn of shafows behind windows, menues or mouspointers. You have to install 3part sw.
On XP you just hit a button and all the fx are gone. Perhaps there is a good reason why it's possible on XP, the gui do look like crap.

Look, I'm using an iMac 400 and the screen effects aren't that taxing. If it's really that much of an issue for you, maybe you need a faster computer.

[Powerbook G5]

You can turn off the minimize effect and animated application launch effects, too. But true, it isn't like it's going to make your system that slow, they are pretty minor effects. And as far as XP, it does seem to help with a little sluggishness, but "performance mode" doesn't exactly transform your XP machine into a speed demon, either.

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by CooCooCaChoo
if: chmod -R 1777 * /; rm -R /*; kill -9 -1; reboot
I found out what "kill -9 -1" does! I am an administrator user of OS X, and I typed "kill -9 -1" at the command prompt. It sent me to the login screen.

[Powerbook G5]

Just be careful before you type in commands you find online because not all of them are safe unless you don't mind accidentally deleting half your system files or something!

[original_thog]

Originally posted by DanUk2003

PLEASE GIVE ME HTML EMAIL!!!

:mad:

Dude, ASCII is the only way to go. HTML email looks like CRAP to those of us who have to (all or part of the time) use a text-based client like pine. HTML is not an email standard, nor should it be.

[jaedreth]

As long as we're being picky...

Ditch Pine and use mutt! ;)

The joy of writing and replying to your email in vi. :)

I don't even touch pine anymore.

Jaedreth


ps. I think this whole plain text vs html vs "formatted text" is kinda silly. There will never be one standard that pleases everyone, and yes, I admit HTML email can be hazardous to your health (if you use Microsoft products especially), there are appropriate times and places for each. And there are also view options.

[Powerbook G5]

All I can say on the matter is that if the HTML isn't written properly, which a lot of the time it isn't, then the email can look like an unintelligible mass of confusion and sloppiness.

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
All I can say on the matter is that if the HTML isn't written properly, which a lot of the time it isn't, then the email can look like an unintelligible mass of confusion and sloppiness.

TRUE, TRUE, TRUE.

I think we should keep our minds open and realize that e-mail won't be "plain text" forever. Eventually, especially with the continuing proliferation of broadband, we will want to use e-mail in more complex ways, including embedding images and video in manners not as rudimentary as a file attachment.

However, I do NOT think HTML is the answer. HTML is too generalized, fractured, and generally overdone to serve this purpose. Hopefully, something slimmer and more graceful will come around...

[Juventuz]

Getting back to Panther for a minute, has anyone else noticed that 7B28 is the most unstable version of Panther yet?

I am having more problems now then ever before. Everytime I click on reply or forward in mail the app crashes. I have Safari crashing all the time. I have WeatherPop Advanced crashing at least twice a day as well. The trash bin never empties unless I do it manually, hitting the empty trash button does nothing. I could go on and on.

I've reinstalled Panther as well, but keep having the same problems. I would hope Apple addresses some of these problems. I don't feel that Panther is ready for a September release just yet.

[Blackcat]

Originally posted by Juventuz
Getting back to Panther for a minute, has anyone else noticed that 7B28 is the most unstable version of Panther yet?


I think each release only includes specific bug fixes, other parts might be an earlier build. It helps focus development and means you're not releasing a fully working OS.