Any Web/Print designer/s out there with new 20" Imac

[fireworkz]

I was wondering if any Web Designer (Freelancer or Company) out there recently purchased the 20" Imac - whats the experience - is it ok for use - I read too much; so the color issue seems to be the big deal - I know that alot of consumers i.e. the final customer/viewer doesnt have a fancy screen or set .. so web design is a challenge not to mention the multi-browser factors for design.. I checked out the 20" at best buy also the 24" - true the 24" had no problems the 20" had - but then the screen wasnt calibrated or anything.. So maybe someone who actually bought this Imac and uses it for above purpose can give valuable feedback. Im on the verge of a nervous breakdown deciding - the 20" 2.4GHz is more in the budget - however if fellow web designers using the machine think its crap then I will opt for the 24" IMac - sell my dog, my bike, etc :D to finance it ..

[mrmjd]

I'm a designer in both print and web and was going to buy the 20 inch for home use. I went into the store and wanted to check them both out and I reluctantly opted for the 24 inch over the 20 inch purely for the reduced viewing angle, it just was too much of an annoyance to see that much colour shift for me personally.

That's my two cents worth.

[darkanddivine]

I do print design so I can't comment too much on the web side of things, but the new 20" screen is inferior to the 24" (and to the old 20" for that matter). The colour fade issue is something calibration can mask a bit, but it does only do that, the colour fade doesn't go away.

Personally, if you want a 20" my reccomendation would be to see if you can get an old white version and perhaps save a bit of money that way. The 24" version would be fine for design etc as far as I am aware, however the glare issue which has been often mentioned is a problem depending on your circumstances.

My experience is that in a regular room with daylight, the screen reflects quite badly which either shutting the blinds or similar can help (just pull a black box in illustrator and you'll see what I mean). Old CRT monitors which were not matte never had as much glare as the new iMac does. At night under regular house lighting the screen is fine for design purposes though.

Hope this helps a bit!!

[AlexisV]

I wouldn't like to use the new 20" for design. The colour shift is appalling.

I use the white at work and the alumnium at home - the white one is far better for working on. The aluminium looks nice and is great for games and photo viewing, but it's very hard to use for colour accurate work.

[mbalson]

I'm typing this on a new 20" iMac while on hold with Apple Care to get an upgrade to the 24".

I'm a web and sometimes print designer and the screen in the 20" is not acceptable, even with a lot of calibration. I don't really want something as large as a 24" but the 20" is useless to me. Also, I don't want the older white iMac...

[Sean Dempsey]

I am a full time web designer and I have a 20" at home I use every day. I don't see any problems with it.

I suppose there is a color shift top to bottom if you move your head around, but I've calibrated mine to my liking and it's been working fine.

your mileage may vary.

[prs986]

I have a 20" and I use it for print design, web design, video editing, and motion graphics. Works great. People make it sound like a HUGE color shift. It's not. Yes there is one, but its not as drastic as ones make it out to be. I see no problem with it at all. I recomend it all the way.

[mbalson]

Well, I guess you must have received an exceptional Aluminum 20" iMac then. At this point I think we're past the point of deciding if this is a real issue or not and just wondering what Apple is going to do about it. A lot of people aren't waiting to upgrade to the 24" or to return it altogether.

[Sean Dempsey]

Well, I guess you must have received an exceptional Aluminum 20" iMac then. At this point I think we're past the point of deciding if this is a real issue or not and just wondering what Apple is going to do about it. A lot of people aren't waiting to upgrade to the 24" or to return it altogether.

I just made a photoshop document of a solid color (I I changed the color a few times while doing this) and had it fill the whole screen, and removed my pallets.

I honstly don't see any color shift at all. It looks like 1 solid, pure color from top to bottom, side to side.

I think I am going to set up a tripod and take a picture of it. Either I got a amazingly perfect screen, or you guys are seeing things.

Literally - what am I supposed to be seeing? I just did about 10 different solid colors that filled the screen, and I couldn't see color shift at all.

What display is the display you are saying is bad, and how can I check which display I have?

[darkanddivine]

I just made a photoshop document of a solid color (I I changed the color a few times while doing this) and had it fill the whole screen, and removed my pallets.

I honstly don't see any color shift at all. It looks like 1 solid, pure color from top to bottom, side to side.

I think I am going to set up a tripod and take a picture of it. Either I got a amazingly perfect screen, or you guys are seeing things.

Literally - what am I supposed to be seeing? I just did about 10 different solid colors that filled the screen, and I couldn't see color shift at all.

What display is the display you are saying is bad, and how can I check which display I have?

When I drew a solid colour fill in a box (on the new 20" iMac), the box gets lighter towards the bottom of the screen. Not hugely noticable, but off putting enough to be an issue when designing. I have yet to see a 20" that doesn't do this. On another note, I find that if you view the screen from slightly below it it does darken up some but the colour shift is pretty big on the model I used.

[mbalson]

Just talked to Apple about the issue. Seems like they are ignoring it completely. I pointed them toward the related Apple Discussions but it didn't matter. They suggested that I take it into an Apple store for repair or at least so they could qualify the defect. I explained that I had already been to the Apple store where me and the staff talked about how all their 20" display models had the same issue. So I don't know what to do with it.

[fireworkz]

...I honstly don't see any color shift at all. It looks like 1 solid, pure color from top to bottom, side to side.

I think I am going to set up a tripod and take a picture of it. Either I got a amazingly perfect screen, or you guys are seeing things.....

Sean can you post a Pic... - I guess I will go to Best Buy (closest to me) and try it out.. also to see how bad :eek: or not so bad :) its looks like !

[mbalson]

Apple is now allowing me to pay and upgrade to the 24". So at least their customer services hasn't worsened.

[darkanddivine]

My new iMac comparisons with the new version vs the old version. Both 20". Just taken on a point and click camera.

Old and new.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/darkanddivine/DSCF2372.jpg

This is the viewing angle issue that many have been mentioning. The screen does seem very sensitive to angle changes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/darkanddivine/DSCF2377.jpg

No real issues with this so called gradient? This was fter I'd calibrated the machine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/darkanddivine/DSCF2376.jpg

This is the old 20" - solid colour.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/darkanddivine/DSCF2381.jpg

Changing the bacground on the 20" reveals the problem.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/darkanddivine/DSCF2379.jpg

And in illustrator, there is a clear colour shift from top to bottom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/darkanddivine/DSCF2391.jpg

[mrgreen4242]

Those pics look like they were shot from a down angle... or were they straight on? I used the 20" at a CompUSA for quite awhile yesterday and didn't notice any issue with it, and I was standing and the system was not at an ideal height, but still no trouble.

I'm not doubting there is a shift there, I'm just wondering how significant it is for day to day use, for you. To answer the original posters question, I'm not a web "designer" but I am a web "developer" (I code, don't draw, :P) and for web work I wouldn't think twice about using the 20" iMac... since the end result is being displayed on a ton of different displays of different type in different lighting conditions... well, what you see when you make it is NOT what your audience is going to see.

For print though you will obviously have control over making the end product look like what you see on the computer. It's important that you can be 100% accurate there. That's just my opinion... like I said, not an artist. I code and design sites and web apps (mostly DB stuff), but let others do a lot of the art side of things.

[darkanddivine]

Those pics look like they were shot from a down angle... or were they straight on? I used the 20" at a CompUSA for quite awhile yesterday and didn't notice any issue with it, and I was standing and the system was not at an ideal height, but still no trouble.

I'm not doubting there is a shift there, I'm just wondering how significant it is for day to day use, for you. To answer the original posters question, I'm not a web "designer" but I am a web "developer" (I code, don't draw, :P) and for web work I wouldn't think twice about using the 20" iMac... since the end result is being displayed on a ton of different displays of different type in different lighting conditions... well, what you see when you make it is NOT what your audience is going to see.

For print though you will obviously have control over making the end product look like what you see on the computer. It's important that you can be 100% accurate there. That's just my opinion... like I said, not an artist. I code and design sites and web apps (mostly DB stuff), but let others do a lot of the art side of things.

There is a definate shift that is for sure. You are correct, that screen calibration will have less impact on design as you get used to what comes out the other side. CMYK always responds slightly differenly to RGB, and I can still put a Pantone reference into my machine and it will come out correctly because that system works around the fact that designers have different displays calibrated differently.

I'm not sure I understand why people have an issue with calibration on the 24" though. The glossy screen does seem to make blacks appear more defined, however I do not know how this would make a huge difference from say an old matte screen. I understnd it from a photographic point of view, but can a gloss finish actually change how you percieve the colour.

After using the 20" for a few days I have to say I have enjoyed it, and for movies and photos the thing is great plus the keyboard is great. I can get the glare down to a minimal issue now too, so really its just a question as to how it responds to design work (the 20" is a problem as the fading issue would be a problem to me). I am still in 2 minds as to whether it is worth upgrading it for the new 24" or just sticking with the 20" C2D. I only use the machine for freelance jobs outside of work.

Stuck again so any thoughts welcome!

[RafMac]

Well if the glare is an issue or even color shift, get it replaced. As for color corrections just attach a second external monitor the is not glossy. I find 24" of real estate not enough for me as adobe cs palettes and tool boxes take 1/3 of your screen. There are alot of good 19" monitors on sale aout there for a reasonable price unless you want to fork extra cash for 20" cinema display.

[darkanddivine]

Well if the glare is an issue or even color shift, get it replaced. As for color corrections just attach a second external monitor the is not glossy. I find 24" of real estate not enough for me as adobe cs palettes and tool boxes take 1/3 of your screen. There are alot of good 19" monitors on sale aout there for a reasonable price unless you want to fork extra cash for 20" cinema display.

I can handle my work on one monitor I think, especially with the pallette being minimised on CS3. Today has been an eye opener though. I'm sending the 20" back due to screen issues and now I look everywhere people are saying there are problems with gradients etc the 24"s as well:rolleyes: so its a bit of a quandry now for me! They seemed fine when I saw them in the apple store but what I've read makes me less sure....

[Treehead]

The company I work for wanted to buy several iMacs for our DTP and web design department when Leopard comes out. Because screen quality is an issue, we would have ordered some 24" machines, but the glare is unacceptable.

And yes, almost everyone of us has seen the screen and tried the iMacs in a store or at a friends house and no one can imagine to work with such a reflective screen.

It´s sad, but Apple doesn´t want our money. :confused:

[Sean Dempsey]

The company I work for wanted to buy several iMacs for our DTP and web design department when Leopard comes out. Because screen quality is an issue, we would have ordered some 24" machines, but the glare is unacceptable.

And yes, almost everyone of us has seen the screen and tried the iMacs in a store or at a friends house and no one can imagine to work with such a reflective screen.

It´s sad, but Apple doesn´t want our money. :confused:

Right, they don't.

Photoshop and all the Adobe programs run GREAT on a Windows box. Why not just get nice Dell's?

[AnalyzeThis]

I finally found a right thread for this matter.

I think the real issue - Apple does not offer mate + better quality panel option at all. They could charge more if they want to, but instead - they decided for you what is best.

So it is ultimately makes all new 20" iMac difficult if not impossible to use for image editing.

[AnalyzeThis]

Will see what he would say about it...

BTW, the issue has nothing to do with color profiles. It is optical quality of the panel and could not be corrected with brightness or color setting. The only way to correct is to replace it with old panel and enjoy your new iMac like never before...

[Sean Dempsey]

So it is ultimately makes all new 20" iMac difficult if not impossible to use for image editing.

I'll be sure to refund all the billable hours I've logged so far on my 20" as a full time professional graphic designer.

OH WAIT IT ROCKS MY BALLS OFF. No refunds!!

[paetrick]

I'll be sure to refund all the billable hours I've logged so far on my 20" as a full time professional graphic designer.

OH WAIT IT ROCKS MY BALLS OFF. No refunds!!

How can you do that when one color look like this?:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/darkanddivine/DSCF2391.jpg

[Sean Dempsey]

How can you do that when one color look like this?:

pic...


My screen doesn't look like that. My screen looks fine. It's not perfect, but few screens are.

[paetrick]

My screen doesn't look like that. My screen looks fine. It's not perfect, but few screens are.

So your screen has the same color on the top of the screen and the bottom? (please take a pic if so)

EDIT:
Just saw this iMac "unboxing" on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdRJpXXVr2M , when you look at the boot up (the grey color) it is the same on the top and the bottom(instead of being darker above and lighter on the bottom). Can this "problem" really be a defect and not an issue that every iMac screen got? Sure hope so :D !

[Sean Dempsey]

Here is a shot of my screen of 1 solid color. There is a slight shift in color, but so what? My eyes and brain are easily able to realize that it's not really there, and I don't see how that could possibly effect my graphic design, since, you know, I use hex values and RGB values for my colors.

while taking the picture, I couldn't tell that there was a color shift. Of course, I can see a teeny tiny one now, but it's not noticable and not a problem at all.

Maybe you guys should stop doing your designs sitting on the floor looking up, or from a ladder looking down. Most screens are meant to be viewed front and center. But I guess if you have to design while in a boxing match, yeah, it would be in a problem.

[vendettabass]

Here is a shot of my screen of 1 solid color. There is a slight shift in color, but so what? My eyes and brain are easily able to realize that it's not really there, and I don't see how that could possibly effect my graphic design, since, you know, I use hex values and RGB values for my colors.

while taking the picture, I couldn't tell that there was a color shift. Of course, I can see a teeny tiny one now, but it's not noticable and not a problem at all.

Maybe you guys should stop doing your designs sitting on the floor looking up, or from a ladder looking down. Most screens are meant to be viewed front and center. But I guess if you have to design while in a boxing match, yeah, it would be in a problem.

thanks a lot for the picture, I'm so getting a 20' iMac :)

[Sean Dempsey]

thanks a lot for the picture, I'm so getting a 20' iMac :)

Here's some fullscreen shots of some pretty high quality photos. My camera is just a Canon SD750 so it's not the greatest and the pics look a little high-contrast and such. In person, it looks almost perfect. But I think it's pretty clear that there is no glare, and no problems with the color. If you couldn't work in this environment... well I think that is a problem a display won't solve.

Maybe I got a defective iMac where the defect is that it works great. Any other photo requests? I'll do whatever I have to to add a counterpoint to this whole "new imac screen" argument.

[AnalyzeThis]

I could not even see the iMac itself on the photos.

Continue, and may be over time you would not be able to differentiate between B/W and Color. Think how much money it would save you. Nothing to worry, you can always check the hex number or RGB to be sure and your brain will take care of the rest.

We all should invest in draperies and windows screens or wait till the sun is out, get an exercise to freeze like a pytons and train our brain to compensate any color shift so we can enjoy our photos. Thanks.
.:)

Photos look great btw. Are you sure you have 20" not 24". May be yours has an old panel in it - it would make you very lucky one.

Not so luck for my local apple store and BB - all 20" models on display are with issues. Folks moving from 17" to new 20" should feel right at home as both now using same optical quality panels.

I could suggest to stretch a bit and get 24" - you can convert it to matte, with a suction cup. Just remove this d*** glass panel. Eventually some one will come up with just a bezel insert, so your iMac 24" parts would not be showing (no parts really showing, just mounting hardware). Also 24" has very high quality panel (same as old).

[paetrick]

Here is a shot of my screen of 1 solid color. There is a slight shift in color, but so what? My eyes and brain are easily able to realize that it's not really there, and I don't see how that could possibly effect my graphic design, since, you know, I use hex values and RGB values for my colors.

while taking the picture, I couldn't tell that there was a color shift. Of course, I can see a teeny tiny one now, but it's not noticable and not a problem at all.

Maybe you guys should stop doing your designs sitting on the floor looking up, or from a ladder looking down. Most screens are meant to be viewed front and center. But I guess if you have to design while in a boxing match, yeah, it would be in a problem.

What the ***, no color shift !!!!, does everyone else got defective ones???

[mkaake]

No, they're all pretty much the same. The bad color shift pictures are being taken when standing 70 degrees off center (i.e., your face would just about be touching the glass either on the sides or top of the screen). That's where the color shift is apparent (though in veryyyyy small amounts from straight on).

Coincidentally, unlike many other posters here at MR, I use my computer while sitting down in front of the screen, not standing on top of or next to it, so the 20" is just fine.

That said, if your planned usage includes sitting 2 feet to the right or left of the machine, and staring back at it at a very large angle, this machine is not for you.

People like complaining about something. Make it something they can photograph repeatably, and they'll do it. Forget the fact that most (not all, but most) of them would never have noticed this 'flaw' (which is also built in to every laptop on the market, btw) if they hadn't read about it first...

I can't wait for the new MB's to come out, so we can see if people start taking pictures of them at 80-85 degrees off center, amazed that there's a color shift...

[suneohair]

I can see color shift there. You guys must be blind. I love how everyone says "I look at my screen dead on, it does not matter if it shifts" If that is how you want to work being confined to looking dead center, help yourself. The pictures taken are the extremes of the problem. However there are color shifts on TN panels even with a slight shift. Watch some of the videos out there, you can start to see it immediately.

Also, Sean is clearly using a color where is the shift isn't as evident.

[AnalyzeThis]

Angles/shift in one issue, then comes glossy finish (could be addressed by removing front panel for now) and 3rd - the colors resolution is also limited - it is apparent on gradients and leads to blemished look instead of smooth gradient as it should be.

I could look at old panel 20" panel from any angle even more than 80 degree and it always looks great. color is natural, deep & smooth. Newbee folks who is buying new 20" model will never even know what quality should be or was.

May it is too bad to have a good and above average set of eyes. Life is a lot more simpler for other folks.

But I think I would rather keep my eyes and old 20" iMac serves me very well.

[suneohair]

When it gets darker (no curtains right now) I will get some shots of my MVA for comparison.

[Sean Dempsey]

Also, Sean is clearly using a color where is the shift isn't as evident.


I used the same color as the guy posted above - green, it wasn't my choice. I'll use any color you want. Give me a hex value. You want red, green, orange, shamrock, salmon, samophlange? The sweet color of victory?

Also, my room isn't dark at all, I've got nice midday sunlight coming in the windows. My camera is just a point and shoot, if I had a decent SLR I could take something more close to what it actually looks like.

I'll do a Red, Blue, Yellow, Black, and White, hows that? CLEARLY.

[Sean Dempsey]

here's my response, in haiku form:

uploaded pictures
colorshift not visible
imac great machine.

[Sean Dempsey]

here's what the room looks like when I don't set the exposure area to the awesomely bright imac screen, btw, for all those who think I am doing this in my "imac photo hoax soundstage cave".

[AnalyzeThis]

Sean,

Folks who are asking for photos should just go to the store and look at the display models. I would not recommend to anyone to base their decisions on photo or video. Now, they may just know what to pay attention to.

Also, did anyone see a new Apple both at Best Buy? It has 57" or 58" flat matte panel (can not tell what brand it is).
Boy, does it look gorgeous !!!

Sean what model you have, is it based on $1199 or $1499? the fact the specs posted are the same, may be it is from different manufacturers. I could not tell by the ones I saw in store. I only remember they all had 2GB RAM.

[suneohair]

From the looks of it, the color is deeper toward the top and lighter toward the bottom. Oh well. Shift a smidge to the right and see what happens.

Lets say I had 2 20" iMacs, since I have 2 LCDs now. My LCDs are turned slightly. They are in somewhat of a V shape. On TN panels, I would see color shifting on the outside edge of my displays. Whereas I don't get that on my MVA panels now.

For me, color shift does not fit in. Maybe my work flow is strange. But sometimes I like to sit back in my chair and think about what I am designing. Just sit back and see it all. If I sit back and my color shifts, I don't find that helpful.

That is not to say the iMac isn't for everyone. But naturally try everything out. If you don't like it you can return it.

[AnalyzeThis]

Sean what model you have, is it based on $1199 or $1499? the fact the specs posted are the same, may be it is from different manufacturers. I could not tell by the ones I saw in store. I only remember they all had 2GB RAM.

[Sean Dempsey]

20" 2.4ghz

here's the display info

[AnalyzeThis]

Sean,

I meant: when you bought the new iMac 20" how much it cost without any additional options you may selected.

I am thinking:
$1199 may have mediocre panel
$1499 may have better optical quality

Despite the fact the specs of both panels are identical.

Based on your CPU speed 2.4 GHz is seems you got $1499. It may raise some hope that more expensive 20" model has acceptable quality flat panel.

It is possible - stores just put cheaper models on the display.

Thanks in advance.

[paetrick]

here's my response, in haiku form:

uploaded pictures
colorshift not visible
imac great machine.

Your screeens doesn't fade (at least not as much as shown on other peoples pictures)
And I would be really HAPPY if the "non defect" iMac screen looked like that.

I will call Applesupport tomorrow and tell him the situation, if he tells me that the screen should not fade when sitting in front of it I can clearly order an iMac and replace it until I get a screen which doesn't fade !!

Thanks man !

[AnalyzeThis]

I went to store and checked again 20" iMac. They all $1499 models with 2.4 GHz CPU. It seems all 20" models have same panel.

[Alloye]

There may be a panel lottery for the 20" iMac. In this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=340698), at least one user reported having panel identifier 9C6B when everyone else had 9C6A. It's possible these panels may have different manufacturers/characteristics, which may be why some people notice a more pronounced color shift than others.

BTW, the best way I've found to identify the real panel manufacturer and model is by doing a DDC export with the SwitchResX (http://www.madrau.com/html/SRX/About.html) utility.

[AnalyzeThis]

The LCD panels on 20" and 24" behind glass is also glossy + they do not have any protective coating. If you need matte - the only option is to buy previous generation iMac. Period. If you are lucky...

[barcoguy45]

Hey,
Yes I feel it is the panel lottery. Something that Dell uses to cut costs. The best test that most of the iMacs will fail on is if you open iTunes open an internet radio station. Or something to show the blue and white dividing bars. Now drag the iTunes window from the top of the screen to the bottom of the screen. You have to look closely you will see the contrast between the two bars fade and it will appear as a blank white area. I took my iMac back showed them this and they are replacing the panel.
The guys at the store said they had seen one other defective iMac. Nice guys at the store, nice computer. It just seems like a luck of the draw as to what panel you will get in the 20"

Please post your results and let me know.

[mbalson]

I've received my 24" replacement iMac and I now have them sitting side by side.
20" brightness shift from top to bottom, but otherwise looks stunning.
24" much more consistent brightness also beautiful but not as punchy(possibly my calibration), viewing angles kill the 20" but my new 24" arrived with 2 dead pixels and a piece of dust! so that's a spoils things slightly. Any advice on the dead pixels and the dust?