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MacRumors
Aug 31, 2007, 08:07 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

NYTimes reports (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/31/technology/31NBC.html?ex=1346212800&en=dec07117d54e611a&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) that NBC and Apple have been unable to come to an agreement on pricing of its television shows.

As a result, NBC may not renew its contract to sell its television content on the iTunes store.
The media conglomerate — which is the No. 1 supplier of digital video to Apple’s online store, accounting for about 40 percent of downloads — notified Apple of its decision late yesterday, according to a person familiar with the matter who asked for anonymity because negotiations between the companies are confidential.

NBC had reportedly been seeking better piracy controls and the ability to bundle videos. The decision will not immediately affect availability of programs as the current deal extends through December -- so there is still time for the companies to reach an agreement as the talks continue:
The two companies could still reach an agreement on a new contract before their current deal expires. While each side has so far refused to budge, the talks will continue and have been free of acrimony, the person familiar with the matter said.



Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/31/nbc-to-end-itunes-sales/)



Buschmaster
Aug 31, 2007, 08:10 AM
Either I can buy a season of Scrubs and the Office when it starts again or I can find it in some other manner that will not benefit NBC at all.

Your call, NBC.

cammo427
Aug 31, 2007, 08:11 AM
The Office is constantly in the top TV show downloads even when it is out of season. Heroes was one of the most popular shows on TV last year. There is no way a huge station like NBC would ever close a deal with something as big as iTunes. Maybe the food network, but not NBC.

iJawn108
Aug 31, 2007, 08:13 AM
Either I can buy a season of Scrubs and the Office when it starts again or I can find it in some other manner that will not benefit NBC at all.

Your call, NBC.

exactly my sentiments if i lived in the US. I hear season 3 will retail for 18 Schrute Bucks and 4 Stanley Nickles.

Cloudsurfer
Aug 31, 2007, 08:14 AM
Big deal.

You could always just buy the dvd of a particular show, and rip it to your Pod.

Eduardo1971
Aug 31, 2007, 08:14 AM
Wow. Hope this just a rumour. I much enjoy "30 Rock".

gnasher729
Aug 31, 2007, 08:14 AM
I like it when I read things like "according to a person familiar with the matter who asked for anonymity because negotiations between the companies are confidential". So in other words, it is a person who has been told to keep their mouth shut or lose their job, and they are so full of self-importance (or possibly so full of alcohol) that they can't keep it shut. :D

storage
Aug 31, 2007, 08:15 AM
Either I can buy a season of Scrubs and the Office when it starts again or I can find it in some other manner that will not benefit NBC at all.

Your call, NBC.
Just wondering, are certain people monitoring certain activity on certain sites providing certain content?

Has anybody been convicted for conducting said activity?

GoCubsGo
Aug 31, 2007, 08:16 AM
Either I can buy a season of Scrubs and the Office when it starts again or I can find it in some other manner that will not benefit NBC at all.

Your call, NBC.

Yup this is exactly what I thought but not about Scrubs. :)

siurpeeman
Aug 31, 2007, 08:17 AM
Big deal.

You could always just buy the dvd of a particular show, and rip it to your Pod.

dvds of tv shows don't come out until the season is over. tv shows on the itunes store are available for purchase the next day. to many, it is a big deal.

princealfie
Aug 31, 2007, 08:17 AM
NBC is overrated...

bring on the clones like Food Network and BET!:cool:

motulist
Aug 31, 2007, 08:18 AM
The Office is constantly in the top TV show downloads even when it is out of season.... There is no way a huge station like NBC would ever close a deal with something as big as iTunes.

The Office was in very real danger of being cancelled altogether until the show's iTunes purchases got popular and turned the show around into one of NBC's biggest hits. (read more about how iTunes saved The Office (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=itunes+%22the+office%22+ratings&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8))

Seems like a stupid move by NBC to end its iTunes offerings since it has a proven track record of benefitting them greatly. I suspect that if they really do end their iTunes offerings now, they'll be back soon enough. In fact this all may just be a negotiating tactic.

siurpeeman
Aug 31, 2007, 08:21 AM
The Office was in very real danger of being cancelled altogether until the show's iTunes purchases got popular and turned the show around into one of NBC's biggest hits.

Seems like a stupid move by NBC to end its iTunes offerings given it already has a track record of benefitting them greatly. I suspect that if they really do end their iTunes offerings now, they'll be back soon enough. In fact this all may just be a negotiating tactic.

my question is, what's going to happen to all the people who purchase season passes to nbc shows if nbc decides to stop offering their shows in december?

Queso
Aug 31, 2007, 08:21 AM
my question is, what's going to happen to all the people who purchase season passes to nbc shows if nbc decides to stop offering their shows in december?
Either a partial refund or a class action suit.

breeze
Aug 31, 2007, 08:23 AM
Screw them too ....

They may not uderstand that consumers still have the right to record any tv content on their own for later watching. VCRs have modern equivalents and getting all digital files into the iPod is easy, so if we want a program we can still record it and it does not have to come from iTunes...Just like most iPod owners import their Cds into their iPods without the greedy record lables trying to get paid more than once, so too can the same be done for video content.

The loser will be NBC because other alternatives will quickly give rise to the issue of whether or not TV is that important and if it is, well, there's nothing the big networks can do to stop us from getting it for free for our own private use - without their approval.

I wouldn't risk alienating consumer sentiment and a found source of revenue...

kresh
Aug 31, 2007, 08:23 AM
It's just a push by NBC for more revenue, and Apple is not budging. Whoever blinks first loses.

Go Steve.

floriflee
Aug 31, 2007, 08:23 AM
dvds of tv shows don't come out until the season is over. tv shows on the itunes store are available for purchase the next day. to many, it is a big deal.

Case in point... I will be unable to watch the season premiere of the Office and I fully intend to buy it off iTunes after it comes out. I'm sure I could find it some other way, but then I'll hear about it from the hubby. :D

aristobrat
Aug 31, 2007, 08:27 AM
Big deal.

You could always just buy the dvd of a particular show, and rip it to your Pod.
It can be somewhat of a big deal.

If you miss an episode of most big shows on NBC (like "Heroes"), iTunes has it available to download the next day for $1.99

That's way more convenient than having to wait 3 months after the seasons ends to pay $30.00 to buy the entire season on DVD just because you missed on episode. At least for me it is, especially in a series where missing an episode can cause the next episode to not make sense.

Maybe I'm being naive about Apple's motives for not wanting to let the studios charge more for certain programming, but I appreciated it. I wouldn't be surprised if NBC didn't want to charge $4.99 per episode of Heroes because it's so popular.

Update: I took so long posting this (sidetracked at work) that several others made the same point. Sorry about being redundant. :eek:

Zadillo
Aug 31, 2007, 08:29 AM
I think the funny thing about this and similar issues like the Universal music contract and the DRM-free stuff, is that the motivation behind it all is supposedly that these other companies are worried about Apple becoming a monopoly.

But normally, when people worry about a company becoming a monopoly, the concern is that they will start charging more money, etc. These companies are worried about Apple because they are using the popularity of iTunes and iPods to stick to their guns to NOT charge as much money as these content companies want.

Aside from that, it seems like this is the only option left to them. No-one else seems to be able to compete with Apple head-on (i.e. by offering a music service/video service and hardware that is really compelling), so the only option left is to try and harm Apple by simply taking their content away.

It's a bad call though. I think they must hope/assume that maybe everyone is going to rush out and buy Zunes now or something to be able to keep buying their content, at whatever ridiculous prices they want to charge, but it's more likely that people will keep their iPods and come up with other ways to get the content.

fastbite
Aug 31, 2007, 08:30 AM
NBC can go to hell. They are a bunch of thieving idiots.

stevesidea
Aug 31, 2007, 08:31 AM
NBC and Universal Music are trying to play hardball with apple. It seems really dumb. Why would I want to sign up to 12 different sites to buy my shows or music. I don't want to go to hbo.com and the universalmusic.com or nbcdigitalstuff.net and then sonyconnect... I want one easy store. That's how grocery stores work! The leading peanut butter manufacturer doesn't open up its own store to defend and control it's brand, they sell their stuff at the grocery store because it's easier and that's where the people who eat pb are.

But seriously, Mr. Jobs, would it kill you to be a little flexible on flexible pricing?

NightStorm
Aug 31, 2007, 08:31 AM
If BSG, Heroes, The Office, and My Name Is Earl is not available as a season pass for the upcoming season, I just saved myself a lot of money! Thanks NBC! :rolleyes:

I really want to pay you for these shows, but I'm not going to deal with 20 different online services to do so.

Zadillo
Aug 31, 2007, 08:32 AM
It can be somewhat of a big deal.

If you miss an episode of most big shows on NBC (like "Heroes"), iTunes has it available to download the next day for $1.99

That's way more convenient than having to wait 3 months after the seasons ends to pay $30.00 to buy the entire season on DVD just because you missed on episode. At least for me it is, especially in a series where missing an episode can cause the next episode to not make sense.

Maybe I'm being naive about Apple's motives for not wanting to let the studios charge more for certain programming, but I appreciated it. I wouldn't be surprised if NBC didn't want to charge $4.99 per episode of Heroes because it's so popular.

I don't think it's being naive about Apple's motives. One thing to keep in mind with Apple is that they do not see the iTunes store in and of itself as a profit center. They want to make enough money for it to be worth it, but more specifically they want to have a good source of content for iPod/etc. buyers (now iPhone, AppleTV, Mac, etc.). Their goal is to sell more iPods, iPhones, Macs, AppleTV's, etc. etc.

But Apple knows that there are limits to what people will spend - as it is, there are people who think the prices being charged right now ($1 a track, $2 an episode, $10 a movie, etc.) are too much - they know that raising that price even more is not going to help anyone (not Apple, not the users, not the content companies).

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 08:33 AM
But normally, when people worry about a company becoming a monopoly, the concern is that they will start charging more money, etc. These companies are worried about Apple because they are using the popularity of iTunes and iPods to stick to their guns to NOT charge as much money as these content companies want.


?? why do you think NBC is so stupid?

these type of negotiations are always about the percentage of revenue sharing, NBC might want a 7:3 rather than 5:5. There is no need to accuse NBC want users to pay more.

BenRoethig
Aug 31, 2007, 08:34 AM
It's just a push by NBC for more revenue, and Apple is not budging. Whoever blinks first loses.

Go Steve.

If he looses basically every one except disney because of his inflexibility, it should be more like go home Steve.

jblodgett
Aug 31, 2007, 08:34 AM
Where else is NBC going to sell their shows?

Is there another provider out there who offers a better service, for a better rate, than what the iTunes store offers?

Seems like a strange decision from NBC's side- because I don't think there is another venue out there for them to sell their product. Unless they are thinking about selling their shows from their own website or something.

Dagless
Aug 31, 2007, 08:35 AM
dvds of tv shows don't come out until the season is over. tv shows on the itunes store are available for purchase the next day. to many, it is a big deal.

Dunno if it's a UK thing, but it's legal for you to download TV torrents. so long as a DVD isn't out.
Makes me wonder why I should spend that £1.80-odd on iTunes.

alywa
Aug 31, 2007, 08:37 AM
Yet another in the long-standing series of bad decisions by "old media".

Just like MTV/Viacom with YouTube, just like Universal with iTMS, these companies just don't get it. iTunes (plus the others) provide a way for customers to get content (legally, and paid for) that they would otherwise simply steal.

I have a TIVO. I rarely purchase TV shows from iTMS... but if we missed an episode for some reason, it is nice to be able to pay $2 to watch that one. NBC will simply miss out on that purchase if they pull out, because I'll find other ways to see the show. (Legal or illegal).

The networks are scared of Apple, Amazon, etc... and rightfully so. Their near-monopoly status is crumbling, and decisions like this are just going to make their demise faster.

Stella
Aug 31, 2007, 08:39 AM
Its irrelevant if NBC sucks ass, or produce the best shows on the planet ( which the reality, is probably half way in between those ).. the bottom line is:

Its not good for Apple to lose content.

NBC could just be playing the bargaining game.. threaten to leave, which then leaves Apple to respond, and talks can continue.

glennyboiwpg
Aug 31, 2007, 08:40 AM
Wasn't NBC the jerks who pulled the black donnellys from the air even though it was like one of the best shows on that season?

If it was, this is the second time that they are making me say that I never want to deal with them.


if its not... then please ignore this post. :)

Multimedia
Aug 31, 2007, 08:40 AM
NBC can go to hell. They are a bunch of thieving idiots.Bravo.NBC and Universal Music are trying to play hardball with apple. It seems really dumb. Why would I want to sign up to 12 different sites to buy my shows or music. I want one store. That's how grocery stores work! The leading peanut butter manufacturer doesn't open up its own store, they sell their stuff at the grocery store because it's easier and that's where the people are.

But seriously, Mr. Jobs, would it kill you to be a little flexible on flexible pricing?Well yes it would. He controls ABC. This is more about Steve's position on the Board of Disney than it is about Apple being unfair.If BSG, Heroes, The Office, and My Name Is Earl is not available as a season pass for the upcoming season, I just saved myself a lot of money! Thanks NBC! :rolleyes:

I really want to pay you for these shows, but I'm not going to deal with 20 different online services to do so.Exactly. NBC-Universal just doesn't get it. They will be The Biggest Loser.?? why do you think NBC is so stupid?

these type of negotiations are always about the percentage of revenue sharing, NBC might want a 7:3 rather than 5:5. There is no need to accuse NBC want users to pay more.And users are not going to pay more because the price is already way too high compared to what cable subscribers already pay for all these properties.

BKKbill
Aug 31, 2007, 08:40 AM
Either I can buy a season of Scrubs and the Office when it starts again or I can find it in some other manner that will not benefit NBC at all.

Your call, NBC.

Please lets not be bitter everybody is just trying to make the best deal. Don't get all bent out of shape on the first salvo.

gkarris
Aug 31, 2007, 08:40 AM
Where else is NBC going to sell their shows?

Is there another provider out there who offers a better service, for a better rate, than what the iTunes store offers?

Seems like a strange decision from NBC's side- because I don't think there is another venue out there for them to sell their product. Unless they are thinking about selling their shows from their own website or something.


(MS)NBC will sell on XBox Live and the Zune Store...

NBC bought USA Networks (including the SciFi Channel) and cancelled a slew of awesome shows (Farscape, and recently Stargate SG-1). Now we get crap like Flash Gordon and Wrestling (on the SciFi Channel nonetheless).

For me, NBC on iTunes won't be missed...

Orng
Aug 31, 2007, 08:40 AM
This is the heart of the matter right here:


NBC had reportedly been seeking ... the ability to bundle videos.

Why let you get away with one item you really want for 5 bucks, when they can make you buy one item you want and two that nobody will buy otherwise, for 12 dollars? (The iTunes Canada Store doesn't have TV shows, so I'm just guessing at the prices)

I mean, this is the basis of the entire Cable Teevee industry. That's why you have 200 channels and only really watch about 8 of them for any significant duration, and that's if you're a heavy watcher. This is why I went to Rabbit Ears. Because bundling made me angry.

siurpeeman
Aug 31, 2007, 08:41 AM
Dunno if it's a UK thing, but it's legal for you to download TV torrents. so long as a DVD isn't out.
Makes me wonder why I should spend that £1.80-odd on iTunes.

as a united states citizen, i am unfamiliar with uk laws. however, i have a really hard time believing a person can freely download a tv show just as long as the dvd hasn't been released.

AT71
Aug 31, 2007, 08:42 AM
Honestly, I don't understand why these studios are so greedy. And why Apple is such a stubborn ass.

Geez! Am I going to lose my favorite shows like Heros, BSG and Eureka?

What happen if the other studios also follow NBC/Universal?

Then there's nothing to buy in iTunes Store. So, there's no need for me to get a 6G iPod.

Maybe we should juz BT and use Zune or Archos.

Stewie
Aug 31, 2007, 08:42 AM
Big deal.

You could always just buy the dvd of a particular show, and rip it to your Pod.


Problem is DVD doesn't come out for months, where as the download on iTunes is available the day after the airing. But the time the DVD comes out, you have either lost interest, heard about it from everyone do does watch the show, or gotten it from a location that doesn't beneifit Apple or NBC.

milo
Aug 31, 2007, 08:44 AM
Big deal.

You could always just buy the dvd of a particular show, and rip it to your Pod.

Yeah...six months after the episode aired. :rolleyes: And buying the dvd is way useful if you just need ONE episode you missed.


NBC does big business with these shows on iTunes. Their thursday night lineup has had terrible ratings, but they've kept the office on for four years now and have even expanded it to more episodes. There's no way these shows would still be on if they weren't making money via itunes.

Both sides are just grandstanding, they'll end up with a deal at the last minute. There's just no way NBC would walk away from such a solid source of income, and with no other service ready to take the place of iTunes.

zombitronic
Aug 31, 2007, 08:45 AM
It would be interesting to see the percentage of revenue that Apple makes off of NBC shows through iTunes.

I agree with the convenience arguments about getting a show the next day, if missed. This helped me when my ancient VCR didn't tape Lost. But as stated, there are several other ways to recieve a digital copy of a show without any benefit to the studio. While not a good thing, this loss surely would not hurt iPod sales, and that's the cash cow.

Stewie
Aug 31, 2007, 08:45 AM
.And users are not going to pay more because the price is already way too high compared to what cable subscribers already pay for all these properties.

Wait...What? If you were only to buy the shows you actually watch on TV from iTunes, it is much cheaper then cable where you have to shell out a fortune for channels that you never watch.

Queso
Aug 31, 2007, 08:46 AM
as a united states citizen, i am unfamiliar with uk laws. however, i have a really hard time believing a person can freely download a tv show just as long as the dvd hasn't been released.
I think it falls into that legal grey area of UK copyright law that came about due to video recorders and taping music off the radio. It's not strictly legal, but not illegal either. UK law is all a bit like that :)

Stewie
Aug 31, 2007, 08:47 AM
Honestly, I don't understand why these studios are so greedy. And why Apple is such a stubborn ass.

Geez! Am I going to lose my favorite shows like Heros, BSG and Eureka?

What happen if the other studios also follow NBC/Universal?

Then there's nothing to buy in iTunes Store. So, there's no need for me to get a 6G iPod.

Maybe we should juz BT and use Zune or Archos.

I can sum it up for you pretty quickly. $.

Everyone wants as much as they can possible get. That is the simple no BS version.

mambodancer
Aug 31, 2007, 08:49 AM
If BSG, Heroes, The Office, and My Name Is Earl is not available as a season pass for the upcoming season, I just saved myself a lot of money! Thanks NBC! :rolleyes:

I really want to pay you for these shows, but I'm not going to deal with 20 different online services to do so.

My thoughts exactly. I use the iTunes downloads as a convenience. The fact that the networks are getting $2 for a show I can record for free (and do now that I have a DVR) you would think would be enough to keep them really happy. What I like about the shows I purchase from iTunes (versus DVR) is that the commericials are edited out and there are none of the ridiculous crawls across the bottom of the screen. I have never, regardless of how much I like the show, bought DVD's of it, and I never will. If I want to see it again, I check it out from our public library for free.

It is amazing how stupid and short sighted the music and movie industries are. If they really want to negotiate with Apple they should be moving to REDUCING the price of their content or making it free altogether (Vintage episodes of Gilligans Island for $2? Come on.) I suspect, based on what I see on some of the sites that offer episodes of shows for online viewing, that they want to include advertising and commercials in their shows.

The future goes forward, not backward NBC. Hire someone that has a clue.

supermacdesign
Aug 31, 2007, 08:49 AM
Once NBC sees the new (perhaps they already have) Multi-Media-Multi-touch iPod that comes out next week they will reconsider. Boom suddenly you've got a new widescreen iPod designed to watch video content on and new hungry users looking for content, this issue will be resolved.

Whiskerdreams
Aug 31, 2007, 08:52 AM
Well I think that NBC and Universal are more concerned with control and not money. Steve could by himself determine what shows of NBC's or what albums of Universals would be carried on iTunes which could lead to either one having a hit or not. That is a lot of power to wield... And the executives at both companies don't want Steve to make those decisions... they want to make those decisions... that is why the music industry has been trying to get apple to provide music at a variable cost that is set by the record companies. So they can keep control over both the artists and the content. We are probably talking about billions of dollars here in revenue at stake.

All I have to say is grab the popcorn and sit back and watch the battle... It's like a new TV show...

Schtumple
Aug 31, 2007, 08:52 AM
This is pathetic, all they're doing is hurting themselves, do they think they're going to get more sales by either going with another service or not at all?

They're as bad as the record labels...

Chupa Chupa
Aug 31, 2007, 08:53 AM
Big deal.

You could always just buy the dvd of a particular show, and rip it to your Pod.

BUT not the day after the show aired. The only way to get the show onto your iPod starting in Jan will be to DIY or bit torrent.

AT71
Aug 31, 2007, 08:53 AM
I can sum it up for you pretty quickly. $.

Everyone wants as much as they can possible get. That is the simple no BS version.

So, should we all keep our $$$ and BT? Vote without our wallets.

LeviG
Aug 31, 2007, 08:54 AM
Dunno if it's a UK thing, but it's legal for you to download TV torrents. so long as a DVD isn't out.
Makes me wonder why I should spend that £1.80-odd on iTunes.

since when? As far as I'm aware in the UK it's still illegal to download tv torrents like anything else, its copyright infringement. Technically recording the show on a video is breaking the copyright laws although its allowed as its so common (and hard to stop). And if it's legal before the dvd is out why is illegal after it is?

cwoloszynski
Aug 31, 2007, 08:57 AM
NBC and MS have a long-standing relationship. I wonder if MS is planning on pushing hard to get NBC on the Zune.

KindredMAC
Aug 31, 2007, 08:57 AM
If NBC wants to be prickish I say let them.

As it is, I missed 2 episodes of Heroes last year. The first one I bought on iTunes, the second I watched for FREE on their own site. I never understood why NBC would shoot themselves in their own foot by offering it for free, even though the quality was much lower than the iTunes version.

If anything NBC should take the FREE version off of their website and keep the iTunes version for $1.99. That right there will increase any revenue that they want.

Think things through before you speak NBC! You are being fed quite handsomely for a service that wouldn't even exist in this form if Apple had not introduced it and played hardball in the beginning.

drater
Aug 31, 2007, 09:00 AM
guess NBC just needs the money that bad. I mean, they would never see a market they could exploit and capitalize on which meant they would up the price for us and up the profit from apple. No, they they would never do that... they must need the cash. I think I'll start a website... www.helpinghandshelpnbc.com/fart

BKF
Aug 31, 2007, 09:00 AM
I think what we really see here is the Apple (Jobs) commitment to a clean, simple user experience. NBC would have them start putting together asinine packages and deals and discounts and bonuses and surcharges that might move a few more shows, occasionally, but would stop you from going into iTunes with a pretty clear idea from the get go what you could get, and for how much. The Apple way is to clean it up; the NBC way is to throw out as much as they can, in any form, and see what sticks.

Apple also uses iTunes not so much as a way to sell content, but as a way to sell iPods, whereas for NBC sales on content are the only thing they get out of iTunes. So how they want to organize the shop differs there, too.

I'm all with Apple on both those points. The only trick is that I think it's going to be important for Apple's future, as the company reaches into new areas that (alas) require partnerships, for Apple to show that they can occasionally play well with others, including NBC and AT&T, for that matter. It's going to be a fine line to walk.

Chupa Chupa
Aug 31, 2007, 09:06 AM
Just remember this, one day, once their Hula experiment fails, once Zune is a clear loser, once AppleTV gains traction and iPhone sales hit the targeted 10m market, once NBCs shows need the buzz shot that iTunes provided, NBC is going to want back in a bad way. At which point Apple will welcome them back, but not before they give NBC a swift kick in the fiscal gonads.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 09:08 AM
I think what we really see here is the Apple (Jobs) commitment to a clean, simple user experience.

Apple also uses iTunes not so much as a way to sell content, but as a way to sell iPods



no and no. anyone who ever used apple's app for windows knows apple is a bundle crazy monster.

and if iPOD is just a music player, iTunes is unnecessary. how many mp3 players' music management app has music store built-in?
Just remember this, one day, once their Hula experiment fails, once Zune is a clear loser, once AppleTV gains traction and iPhone sales hit the targed 10m market,
zune might be a loser, depends on their objective.
appleTV is already a dud.
iphone hit 10m.... there will be alot of things happening in 5 years.

and please understand the digital music store's situation now.

BKKbill
Aug 31, 2007, 09:10 AM
Screw them too ....

They may not uderstand that consumers still have the right to record any tv content on their own for later watching. VCRs have modern equivalents and getting all digital files into the iPod is easy, so if we want a program we can still record it and it does not have to come from iTunes...Just like most iPod owners import their Cds into their iPods without the greedy record lables trying to get paid more than once, so too can the same be done for video content.

The loser will be NBC because other alternatives will quickly give rise to the issue of whether or not TV is that important and if it is, well, there's nothing the big networks can do to stop us from getting it for free for our own private use - without their approval.

I wouldn't risk alienating consumer sentiment and a found source of revenue...

I know I know TV is not that important and if it is, well, there's nothing the big networks can do to stop us from getting it for free. Do you know if there isn't any tv content you don't get TV content. Why do I feel you have cable or at least satellite. Sure big talk from a newbie.

Thomas2006
Aug 31, 2007, 09:11 AM
NBC is just being greedy. NBC wants to charge more by packaging a TV show with a movie, but why should I pay more for a movie because a TV episode is bundled with it? If I want an episode of 'The Office' then I will download the episode I want, and if I want 'The 40 Year Old Virgin' then I will buy the movie. That is what makes iTunes so nice, you buy what you want.

KindredMAC
Aug 31, 2007, 09:12 AM
no and no. anyone who ever used apple's app for windows knows apple is a bundle crazy monster.

and if iPOD is just a music player, iTunes is unnecessary. how many mp3 players' music management app has music store built-in?

zune might be a loser, depends on their objective.
appleTV is already a dud.
iphone hit 10m.... there will be alot of things happening in 5 years.

and please understand the digital music store's situation now.

I hope that was meant with sarcasm..... what the hell is bundle crazy about them? And if you have a problem with that, use a Mac then instead of Windows....

Chupa Chupa
Aug 31, 2007, 09:12 AM
no and no. anyone who ever used apple's app for windows knows apple is a bundle crazy monster.

and if iPOD is just a music player, iTunes is unnecessary. how many mp3 players' music management app has music store built-in?

iTMS is IS unnecessary. You don't have to use iTMS. I hardly do unless I just want a single song. I'm not a fan of the DRM OR the low bit rate encoding. However, most consumers don't care about that, especially the pre-teen/teen set. They use iTMS b/c its easy, affordable, and quick.

Detlev
Aug 31, 2007, 09:13 AM
Oh, it is about $$ folks, just not the way you are thinking. It is called advertising revenues. NBC, ABC, USA are putting more and more shows online, free, but with advertisements. iTunes does not produce advertising revenues for the broadcast companies. It is simple math:

A (the show) - B (Apple's cut) = $
A (the show) + D (advertisement revenue) = $$

If you were in business where would you invest your resources? It doesn't matter if you can download them all in one place. You will be watching online (with some limitations), switching sites just like flipping channels from the sofa.

The report in the paper this morning says TV shows are a small percentage of iTunes downloads anyway. I have to admit I downloaded some but have backed off since the favorite shows are available online and in better quality. I only have a few movies because I don't get great pricing, bonus features or subtitles. In short, I think Steve was right originally. I don't think the market is there. It was a loud minority who demanded videos be included.

nacengineer
Aug 31, 2007, 09:13 AM
NBC owns Sci-Fi! This is big to us geeks! Aghhhhhh!

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 09:13 AM
NBC is just being greedy. NBC wants to charge more by packaging a TV show with a movie, but why should I pay more for a movie because a TV episode is bundled with it? If I want an episode of 'The Office' then I will download the episode I want, and if I want 'The 40 Year Old Virgin' then I will buy the movie. That is what makes iTunes so nice, you buy what you want.

i think you have some misunderstanding here, NBC is not saying you need to buy two items together.. where did you get that idea from?

twoodcc
Aug 31, 2007, 09:14 AM
well this doesn't sound good, but I bet they'll work something out

wolfpackfan
Aug 31, 2007, 09:14 AM
Big deal.

You could always just buy the dvd of a particular show, and rip it to your Pod.

This is a big deal to me. I like to watch shows when they are telecast not 6 months later. iTunes is how I stay up to date with The Office and Heroes. I hate the thought of going back to VCR recording. What a bummer.

thomasfxlt
Aug 31, 2007, 09:14 AM
I guess I'm not certain why Apple cares so much about NBC's pricing model. Mark it up and let the public decide if it's priced right. Possibly Apple is concerned about the investment they make to prepare the content for distribution and feel strongly that a specific price point is critical to maintain and grow downloads.

Overall I'll bet this report is a ploy by NBC to try and bluff Apple. Won't work.

wolfpackfan
Aug 31, 2007, 09:15 AM
NBC owns Sci-Fi! This is big to us geeks! Aghhhhhh!

Add Eureka to my list of shows I won't be able to purchase.

bommai
Aug 31, 2007, 09:15 AM
I have a eyeTV hybrid ($130) that I use to record TV shows in their original 720p (ABC, Fox) or 1080i (NBC, CBS, PBS, CW) with Dolby Digital 5.1 sound. Why should I put up with the crummy quality on iTunes. Even on my 20" LCD, the iTunes downloads look awful. I once forgot to record Prison Break and downloaded from iTunes. Compared to my previous recordings through eyeTV hybrid, the quality sucked!! Plus, I don't have to pay a penny to anyone for recording through eyeTV Hybrid (OTA-HD).

Detlev
Aug 31, 2007, 09:15 AM
They use iTMS b/c its easy, affordable, and quick.

The Wal*Mart/Home Depot Effect at its finest.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 09:15 AM
I hope that was meant with sarcasm..... what the hell is bundle crazy about them? And if you have a problem with that, use a Mac then instead of Windows....

the fact im using mac now doesn't change the fact that apple's windows apps are system resource hungry bundle monsters. :) if you have any questions about apple's reputation on their windows apps, goto www.neowin.net and post a poll..

Chupa Chupa
Aug 31, 2007, 09:16 AM
NBC is just being greedy. NBC wants to charge more by packaging a TV show with a movie, but why should I pay more for a movie because a TV episode is bundled with it? If I want an episode of 'The Office' then I will download the episode I want, and if I want 'The 40 Year Old Virgin' then I will buy the movie. That is what makes iTunes so nice, you buy what you want.

That is just a pretext for NBC to explain why they had to leave iTMS. It's NOT the real reason. As said by another poster, its about power. This is just a executive style pissing match. I'm betting NBC is going to end up short.

invalidname
Aug 31, 2007, 09:16 AM
NBC had reportedly been seeking better piracy controls...

What the heck do you suppose that means? Has anyone heard of any meaningful FairPlay cracks recently? Or of NBC abandoning formats that are long since cracked (e.g., DVD)?

mdntcallr
Aug 31, 2007, 09:16 AM
Well, I am a huge Apple supporter in everything BUT their policies in how they deal with content suppliers. Increasingly Apple acts in an arrogant manner which tells people in a very narrow fashion how the music or movies will be sold.

So, the end result is that Universal Music, and now NBC, are willing to part ways from Apple in order to push the issue.

Apple here is the one who needs to be responsive to the creative companies who supply the wonderful content we enjoy on our computers, Ipods, Iphones and Apple TV's.

How can Apple improve? Allow the content owners to set Suggested retail pricing, and have it be variable. Much content wouldn't change in price, but some would. So, instead of being $1.99 for every tv episode, companies could set it to $2.50 or $3.00 or $3.50 for a two hour episode.

Apple has been strong arming music companies and this is why there is a limited amount of movies available. So.... Apple is the one here who needs to change. it really is the content companies who are protecting their best interests because Apple wont.

Chupa Chupa
Aug 31, 2007, 09:18 AM
i think you have some misunderstanding here, NBC is not saying you need to buy two items together.. where did you get that idea from?

The bundling concept was mentioned in this AM's NYT article.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 09:20 AM
The bundling concept was mentioned in this AM's NYT article.

doesn't that bundle means NBC want to sell their videos to apple ITMS? rather than directly force users to buy a video with a music?

Detlev
Aug 31, 2007, 09:20 AM
Add Eureka to my list of shows I won't be able to purchase.

Eureka is only a half season show and who knows if it will be back. You'll get this entire season. Episodes are available on their site.

BTW, this is another reason for the to want to pull. They will be better able to track viewership on their own site rather than collect filtered data from Apple.

Don't get me wrong, I like having it all in one store but reality has to set in here. These companies need to make as much money as they can or you will not be seeing your favorite show anywhere.

bommai
Aug 31, 2007, 09:22 AM
NBC and MS have a long-standing relationship. I wonder if MS is planning on pushing hard to get NBC on the Zune.

Highly plausible. GE (NBC-Universal) has very close ties with MS. They started MS-NBC. I work for GE and they are PC only - no Macs anywhere. They are also the only studio (until recently - with Paramount getting bribed) to exclusively support HD-DVD (which microsoft is pushing hard).

GigaWire
Aug 31, 2007, 09:24 AM
Well, I am a huge Apple supporter in everything BUT their policies in how they deal with content suppliers. Increasingly Apple acts in an arrogant manner which tells people in a very narrow fashion how the music or movies will be sold.

So, the end result is that Universal Music, and now NBC, are willing to part ways from Apple in order to push the issue.

Apple here is the one who needs to be responsive to the creative companies who supply the wonderful content we enjoy on our computers, Ipods, Iphones and Apple TV's.

How can Apple improve? Allow the content owners to set Suggested retail pricing, and have it be variable. Much content wouldn't change in price, but some would. So, instead of being $1.99 for every tv episode, companies could set it to $2.50 or $3.00 or $3.50 for a two hour episode.

Apple has been strong arming music companies and this is why there is a limited amount of movies available. So.... Apple is the one here who needs to change. it really is the content companies who are protecting their best interests because Apple wont.

Sorry, but before iTunes all of the content providers previous forays into the digital world were an absolute failure. Apple knows this market and has the largest share of this market for a reason: They brought the customer what they wanted. Some content providers still don't get that. How much was an episode of a show before ITS? Oh yea, free.

BKKbill
Aug 31, 2007, 09:24 AM
NBC can go to hell. They are a bunch of thieving idiots.

Do we really have to keep watching this crap and I'm still on the first page. It really is adnauseam.

AdMan2007
Aug 31, 2007, 09:24 AM
Once NBC sees the new (perhaps they already have) Multi-Media-Multi-touch iPod that comes out next week they will reconsider. Boom suddenly you've got a new widescreen iPod designed to watch video content on and new hungry users looking for content, this issue will be resolved.

Amen to that. You hit the nail right on the head!

wolfpackfan
Aug 31, 2007, 09:24 AM
Frankly, this announcement will effect whether I purchase a new iPod. One of my principle uses for the new widescreen video iPod is to watch TV shows. If my three favorite shows will no longer be available for viewing on the new iPod, I doubt seriously that I will purchase one.

spazzcat
Aug 31, 2007, 09:25 AM
Big deal.

You could always just buy the dvd of a particular show, and rip it to your Pod.

Not the next day after the show airs

bugabuga
Aug 31, 2007, 09:25 AM
Well, just wait until all of the negotiations are complete. If NBC still withdraws from the iTunes -- fine. Their shows are available for free on their own site, perhaps they'll add purchaceable/downloadable versions right there and, as they want variable pricing, old episodes will cost 50c and new ones $1.50. Plus there's free over-the-air broadcast.
Of course it'd be a pinch on the Jobs' nose, but hey, he's the shrewd businessman, he'll figure out how to make things go his way :)

bommai
Aug 31, 2007, 09:26 AM
This is a big deal to me. I like to watch shows when they are telecast not 6 months later. iTunes is how I stay up to date with The Office and Heroes. I hate the thought of going back to VCR recording. What a bummer.

Why do you have to buy each show - just get an eyeTV Hybrid and get everything for free in HD.

mahashel
Aug 31, 2007, 09:27 AM
Where else is NBC going to sell their shows?

Is there another provider out there who offers a better service, for a better rate, than what the iTunes store offers?

Seems like a strange decision from NBC's side- because I don't think there is another venue out there for them to sell their product. Unless they are thinking about selling their shows from their own website or something.

Got this from ZDNET (http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=6088):
"The NBC Universal move also comes as the General Electric unit is launching Hulu, a video joint venture between NBC and News Corp. NBC Universal was reportedly seeking better piracy controls and wanted Apple to allow it to bundle videos. The newly named Hulu, which will launch a private beta in October gives NBC Universal leverage"

itcomesinwaves
Aug 31, 2007, 09:29 AM
NBC won't let me pay good money for free broadcast television?

THE HORROR!

tim916
Aug 31, 2007, 09:30 AM
IMO, NBC-Universal is the most bone-headed of all the studios. It seems like they try not to make money. No support for Blu-ray, and now they are pulling their shows from the only place online where people are actually willing to pay for video content. Genius.

gnasher729
Aug 31, 2007, 09:33 AM
as a united states citizen, i am unfamiliar with uk laws. however, i have a really hard time believing a person can freely download a tv show just as long as the dvd hasn't been released.

In Germany there was an interesting legal situation maybe ten years ago.

In the UK, people were buying satellite dishes, and you needed a decoder so that the TV company would get money. Since Germany and the UK are close together, you could receive these programs in Germany as well. And since the TV company is voluntarily transmitting it to your home, in Germany you had the right to receive these programs.

That is, you had the right, but not the means. But you could buy cloned decoder cards (which usually worked for a few months until the TV companies changed their encryption, then you bought another one) and watch UK satellite TV. Completely legal, because the UK TV companies _refused_ to sell their decoders in Germany (and if you bought them in the UK, they got remotely turned off by the TV company as soon as it was found that you used them outside the UK).

Why did it make a legal difference that they refused to sell decoders? If they had sold decoders in Germany, then selling cloned decoders would have been "unfair competition" and illegal. Since they didn't sell decoders, they lost no sales, no unfair competition. There was no copyright infringement because the TV company did the actual "copying" (transmitting TV programs to your home).

ifjake
Aug 31, 2007, 09:36 AM
iTunes is great for loyal and committed viewers to catch missed episodes of their favorite shows. It's easy to use, works great, and downloads faster than anything I've tried. TV shows are definitely becoming a lot more connected from episode to episode. Pick an episode from "The Office" from the 3rd season and from the 2nd and compare. "24", "Lost", "Heroes", "Grey's Anatomy", whatever. These types of shows garner huge numbers of dedicated viewers who absolutely have to come back every week. Having quick and easy downloads of episodes soon after they air on iTunes helps to sustain this kind of "addicted, I need my weekly fix" viewership. Now, a lot does rely on designing a show that balances out continuing story with the ability to just hop in at any point. If missing one episode is enough to throw enough people off, then the show is poorly designed (like "Arrested Development", while an incredibly well made show, it turned into something more like a huge inside joke by the end). But having episodes offered on iTunes helps widen this margin of error. The more connected the story is from week to week, the more engrossed the viewer is going to be, and the more he or she will come back the following week, but if a viewer just isn't getting something because they had no way of catching an old episode, this engrossment will quickly fall apart.

Sprung
Aug 31, 2007, 09:37 AM
Companies Who Profit from War Should Not Be Allowed To Own Public Media.

NBC splitting with iTunes may be a 'good thing'.

I have often wondered what Microsoft's comments would be, if Apple bought the 'NBC package' from General Electric ;)

Rot'nApple
Aug 31, 2007, 09:37 AM
I do not own an iPod or iPhone, but I do have an iTunes account. I have only 'purchased' one movie since iTunes inception. The rest of my limited "collection" is of tv shows, music videos, and songs that were "priced" as 'free' at the time of 'purchase'...

Sorry, NBC, your tv shows, which I do not watch on tv now, and sorry, Universal, the movies I do not pay to see in theaters (see only 1 or 2 movies in theaters a year), the availibility to have your shows and movies be purchased on iTunes will not be missed, by me at least!

TheSpaz
Aug 31, 2007, 09:38 AM
NBC-Universal just doesn't get it. They will be The Biggest Loser.

Nice one!

Anyways, I think it is really stupid if they pull their shows off of iTunes. At least for me they make DOUBLE the money off of me because I buy the whole season so I can watch the episodes the next day, then I buy it when it comes out on DVD so I can have an actual DVD because Apple will not let anyone burn shows onto DVD which pretty much sucks... Plus the quality is better on DVD as well as you get extra content that is not included with digital downloads.

However, now that I have an EyeTV Hybrid, I can record the shows instead of downloading them from iTunes and then buy the season on DVD when it comes out for the high quality content.

I agree with everyone here that is saying that NBC is crap... in fact the ONLY show I watch or download from NBC is The Office because Steve Carrell is so funny and I like the original UK version of The Office.

gnasher729
Aug 31, 2007, 09:41 AM
IMO, NBC-Universal is the most bone-headed of all the studios. It seems like they try not to make money. No support for Blu-ray, and now they are pulling their shows from the only place online where people are actually willing to pay for video content. Genius.

They are not actually pulling anything. Their contract runs until December. It is August now, and they haven't managed to come to an agreement yet how to go on after December. They have still over three months to come to an agreement without any problems, and if that stupid anonymous idiot had kept their mouth shut, nobody would know about it. We don't even know whether NBC and Apple are worried about this at all. Could be someone at Apple says "the contract runs out on the 13th of December, they'll probably sign a deal on the 11th or so". Even after the contract runs out, they'll probably have an agreement in place that films will still be sold for a while, except that negotiations will be a bit more urgent.

This is a situation where _any_ deal is better for both sides than _no deal_. NBC and Apple are both making money from this. Obviously NBC wants more than whatever they get, and obviously someone at NBC is doing his best to convince Apple to sign a deal that is better for NBC. But whatever happens, a deal will be signed.

izzle22
Aug 31, 2007, 09:41 AM
Wooopdefriggindo! Who really cares it's just TV shows. If you really want to watch the lame content then sit on the couch and turn on the TV otherwise get a life. I really never cared to begin with if iTunes had TV shows at all, it's just my opinion but anyone who has to buy a TV show that is already free on TV really needs to think about what they are doing in the first place.

Stella
Aug 31, 2007, 09:42 AM
Eureka is only a half season show and who knows if it will be back. You'll get this entire season. Episodes are available on their site.
<snip>


Season 2 has just started, so hopefully it'll be around for a bit :-)

Rot'nApple
Aug 31, 2007, 09:42 AM
Got this from ZDNET (http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=6088):
"The NBC Universal move also comes as the General Electric unit is launching Hulu, a video joint venture between NBC and News Corp. NBC Universal was reportedly seeking better piracy controls and wanted Apple to allow it to bundle videos. The newly named Hulu, which will launch a private beta in October gives NBC Universal leverage"


Isn't NBC Universal's launching Hulu, "a video joint effort", like Sony launching Sony Connect... and what happeded to Sony Connect???:D

(according to an article on macnn, Sonny Connect is shutting down in spring of '08):eek:

tribulation
Aug 31, 2007, 09:47 AM
[QUOTE=Zadillo;4114876]They want to make enough money for it to be worth it, but more specifically they want to have a good source of content for iPod/etc. buyers (now iPhone, AppleTV, Mac, etc.). Their goal is to sell more iPods, iPhones, Macs, AppleTV's, etc. etc.

Did the iTV end up selling more than 2 units this quarter? :rolleyes:
Time to dump that heap of resources at Apple. What a bad joke that whole thing was from the beginning. OK Steve, you got us! A couple desperate Mac fans bought into your gimmick - you won your bet with Phil, it's safe to tell the world now that the iTV was only a joke to throw off the competition. Really, the sooner the better would be good so you can finally focus on your core customers with your real products.

I know Steve, you didn't plan on anyone actually buying one. But I promise, you'll only embarrass about 17 people that bought it. Don't worry, they'll just laugh it off. I mean, it wasn't a total waste of hundreds of dollars - obviously they were in on the joke too. I think you might have actually convinced a couple people that it did something, boy oh boy I wish I'd had seen their faces the first time they plugged it in. Wow, that must have been a real tickler. So anyways, it's been fun but really I think it's time to get back to your real work now. Thanks for the laughs!

BKKbill
Aug 31, 2007, 09:48 AM
I guess I'm not certain why Apple cares so much about NBC's pricing model. Mark it up and let the public decide if it's priced right. Possibly Apple is concerned about the investment they make to prepare the content for distribution and feel strongly that a specific price point is critical to maintain and grow downloads.

Overall I'll bet this report is a ploy by NBC to try and bluff Apple. Won't work.


Do you think Apple just might be trying to bluff oh should I even say it what the heck APPLE. I know I know blasphemous, but please give it a break.

Maui
Aug 31, 2007, 09:48 AM
Screw them too ....

They may not uderstand that consumers still have the right to record any tv content on their own for later watching.

Yes, I'm sure NBC, which spends $illions creating media content, doesn't understand copyright laws. No doubt they will appreciate being able to come here and get some free legal advice from "macrumors newbie."

jblakeh1
Aug 31, 2007, 09:52 AM
I can somewhat understand NBC wanting more money, but I don't get the 'better DRM' demands they are requesting. You can't burn any iTunes video to DVD, or convert into another format.

On that note, I can't wait to see this new joint venture. More than likely, streaming Flash or Windows Media to your laptop.

Not interested.

BKF
Aug 31, 2007, 09:54 AM
no and no. anyone who ever used apple's app for windows knows apple is a bundle crazy monster.

and if iPOD is just a music player, iTunes is unnecessary. how many mp3 players' music management app has music store built-in?

I didn't say iPod was just a music player. I said that the point of iTunes, from the perspective of Apple's bottom line, is to drive iPod sales. There is a store in iTunes so you can quickly, conveniently, cheaply add content to your -- wait for it -- iPod.

CWallace
Aug 31, 2007, 09:54 AM
Its irrelevant if NBC sucks ass, or produce the best shows on the planet...the bottom line is: Its not good for Apple to lose content.

Very true. A number of people are (were?) planning to pick up those new widescreen iPods announced next week to watch widescreen shows like "Heroes" and such in their proper aspect ratio.


This is the heart of the matter right here: Why let you get away with one item you really want for 5 bucks, when they can make you buy one item you want and two that nobody will buy otherwise, for 12 dollars?

I imagine the studios are not happy that folks can now buy just the one or two tracks they want from a CD for $2 instead of being forced to get the whole thing for $12. So wanting to bundle "unpopular" shows with "popular" ones for 3x or 4x the price helps recover the costs of producing those "unpopular" shows.


Well, I am a huge Apple supporter in everything BUT their policies in how they deal with content suppliers. Increasingly Apple acts in an arrogant manner which tells people in a very narrow fashion how the music or movies will be sold.

Because Apple needs inexpensive content to drive sales of expensive content players. If an iPod 80GB was $35 instead of $350, folks might not mind paying $3 a song or $6 a tv show to put on it.



And while many of us here are technically savvy and bittorrenting the file and converting it to H.264 is a snap, for a great deal of iPod users, that is not the case. Not having that content available on iTunes means it's not available, period.

And that is bad both for the content owners and Apple.

Claytoniss
Aug 31, 2007, 10:01 AM
NOO I WANT HEREOS again. This seriously would keep me from purchasing an :apple:tv. POOR FORM Both parties.

novacodova
Aug 31, 2007, 10:03 AM
This sucks and I think NBC is making a big mistake... However, the reality of it is that the Flash plugin can handle H.264, it will be easier and cheaper, for big media to setup there own download system and I am guessing that is the direction NBC is looking at going.

aka... they probably want to put ads on it and still charge $1.99 an episode... :eek:

its a content control issue...

BKKbill
Aug 31, 2007, 10:04 AM
Well, I am a huge Apple supporter in everything BUT their policies in how they deal with content suppliers. Increasingly Apple acts in an arrogant manner which tells people in a very narrow fashion how the music or movies will be sold.

So, the end result is that Universal Music, and now NBC, are willing to part ways from Apple in order to push the issue.

Apple here is the one who needs to be responsive to the creative companies who supply the wonderful content we enjoy on our computers, Ipods, Iphones and Apple TV's.

How can Apple improve? Allow the content owners to set Suggested retail pricing, and have it be variable. Much content wouldn't change in price, but some would. So, instead of being $1.99 for every tv episode, companies could set it to $2.50 or $3.00 or $3.50 for a two hour episode.

Apple has been strong arming music companies and this is why there is a limited amount of movies available. So.... Apple is the one here who needs to change. it really is the content companies who are protecting their best interests because Apple wont.

Thank you thank you at last some gumption.

milo
Aug 31, 2007, 10:14 AM
appleTV is already a dud.

Nope, it's too early to say. If anything, at this point the whole computer/TV thing is a dud. I'd be worried if there was another similar product grabbing that market instead of appleTV - is there one?

A (the show) - B (Apple's cut) = $
A (the show) + D (advertisement revenue) = $$

I don't get your point. What is A, the cost of someone downloading the show?

It's more like this:

A ($1.99 on iTunes) - B (Apple's cut) = $
D (advertisement revenue) plus zero if it's free on the NBC website = $

We don't know which is bigger, but I doubt its D, even after apple gets a share.

Why do you have to buy each show - just get an eyeTV Hybrid and get everything for free in HD.

1 It doesn't get you cable shows (I don't have cable and don't want it)
2 If you miss an episode for whatever reason, you can't get it afterwards
3 You still have to skip commercials or edit them out

HyperZboy
Aug 31, 2007, 10:15 AM
NBC is already last in network ratings, what next, close up shop???


My proposed Apple response...


NBC, don't let the digital door hit you in the ass.


HAha!


PS: This has nothing to do with NBC or iTunes by the way, it has to do with Universal Music's push to change Apple & iTunes policies, i.e., more expensive then 99 cent downloads and higher album prices. They can go F themselves as far as I'm concerned.

Let the ZUNE people download their sh$t, all 2 of them.

quigleybc
Aug 31, 2007, 10:16 AM
who the heck buys TV shows anyway...?

:p;)

izzle22
Aug 31, 2007, 10:16 AM
[QUOTE=Zadillo;4114876]They want to make enough money for it to be worth it, but more specifically they want to have a good source of content for iPod/etc. buyers (now iPhone, AppleTV, Mac, etc.). Their goal is to sell more iPods, iPhones, Macs, AppleTV's, etc. etc.

Did the iTV end up selling more than 2 units this quarter? :rolleyes:
Time to dump that heap of resources at Apple. What a bad joke that whole thing was from the beginning. OK Steve, you got us! A couple desperate Mac fans bought into your gimmick - you won your bet with Phil, it's safe to tell the world now that the iTV was only a joke to throw off the competition. Really, the sooner the better would be good so you can finally focus on your core customers with your real products.

I know Steve, you didn't plan on anyone actually buying one. But I promise, you'll only embarrass about 17 people that bought it. Don't worry, they'll just laugh it off. I mean, it wasn't a total waste of hundreds of dollars - obviously they were in on the joke too. I think you might have actually convinced a couple people that it did something, boy oh boy I wish I'd had seen their faces the first time they plugged it in. Wow, that must have been a real tickler. So anyways, it's been fun but really I think it's time to get back to your real work now. Thanks for the laughs!



I would assume you have never used an Apple TV. I own one and love it. Hey and guess what! I have never purchassed a movie or a TV show from iTunes. I use it for much more. In case you didn't know it does actually stream music from your computer to your tv and videos and youtube content. Everytime a friend comes over(most are not Apple fans) they love it and want one for the youtube alone. So I doubt it will be discontinued. Maybe upgraded but not discontinued.

Thomas2006
Aug 31, 2007, 10:18 AM
i think you have some misunderstanding here, NBC is not saying you need to buy two items together.. where did you get that idea from?
The following is copied from the linked New York Times article:

NBC Universal and other companies say they want to increase prices by packaging content— say an episode of “The Office” with the movie “The 40- Year-Old Virgin,” because they both star the comedian Steve Carell.

I do not know if this is what NBC wants to do or if the writer was giving and example of what she believes bundling could mean. When I read bundling in the summary I immediately thought previews at the beginning, commercials interrupting the show, or worse, popup content.

BKKbill
Aug 31, 2007, 10:20 AM
NBC is already last in network ratings, what next, close up shop???


My proposed Apple response...


NBC, don't let the digital door hit you in the ass.


HAha!

Don't you think this is so funny. (NOT)

skellener
Aug 31, 2007, 10:24 AM
Interesting that NBC decided to do this. I mean, sure they can take their content and go. But, at least Apple was delivering "paying" customers with iTunes. I'm guessing many people will now turn to "free" alternatives rather than iTunes. So NBC basically just cut off a steady stream of revenue that would have just increased over time.

That being said, if they can deliver HD content on their own, easily and reasonably priced, they could still capture a decent audience. We all know how networks "get it" right? ;):rolleyes: That just ain't gonna happen.

NBC will lose money on this decision. :cool:

BKKbill
Aug 31, 2007, 10:24 AM
Oh and one more thing what are you all doing up at this ungodly time?

rockthecasbah
Aug 31, 2007, 10:28 AM
I never got into the whole video buying through iTunes thing, but reducing the already semi-limited field will not help anything. This hurts Apple moreso than NBC the way i see it, but it really isn't a good outcome for anyone :o The iTMS provides a perfect outlet for sales since it is already built within the infrastructure that most people are currently using anyway, so I don't see people going out of their way to download NBC shows from say a proprietary store. How NBC thinks this will help them, i don't know...

rtdunham
Aug 31, 2007, 10:30 AM
Wasn't NBC the jerks who pulled the black donnellys from the air even though it was like one of the best shows on that season? ...if its not... then please ignore this post. :)

it took me 12 seconds to type "black donnellys" into my google search window and see results showing it WAS NBC.

Might i suggest you sign on to the internet age and do equally compelling research before posting what might have been an irrelevancy? I'm sure you're a good guy/gal (notice i didn't say "speaking of jerks..." in this post):p but i do find annoying posts that are willing to take up hundreds of readers' time with a comment that might or might not be meaningful because the poster doesn't have the time to check something that's almost as fast and easy as looking at the reminder to "buy more tp" penned onto the back of his/her hand. Your post made a decent point, but knowing the premise might have been flawed, it had all the interest of someone saying, "well, i don't know if gravity works this way, but if it does, then I feel real strongly that...."

(Posted in the spirit of keeping the next person from wasting forum space by acting without thinking and acting...)

the grinch
:)

GFLPraxis
Aug 31, 2007, 10:36 AM
No! My Heroes!

blashphemy
Aug 31, 2007, 10:37 AM
Either I can buy a season of Scrubs and the Office when it starts again or I can find it in some other manner that will not benefit NBC at all.

Your call, NBC.

My sentiments exactly, except about Heroes. Either I get it off iTunes, or I get it another way - and no, I'm not talking about broadcast/cable TV.

wolfpackfan
Aug 31, 2007, 10:40 AM
I have just spent the last 30 minutes browsing various websites and it is very interesting how many TV shows are now available for free viewing over the web. Previously I was complaining about not being able to see Office, Heroes and Eureka if NBC leaves iTunes; but all three are available for free viewing I found out. All three major websites do have most of their most popular shows free for viewing. Of course they have commercials, but I guess what do you want for free. Also, you can get reruns of old classics on AOL In2TV and also the LiveTelevision website. Maybe NBC realized that perhaps they could make more money by making the shows free and include ads rather than selling them for 99 cents each over iTunes. Anyway, this move, will effect when/if I purchase a widescreen iPod. It really depends upon what other features are on the iPod to justify spending the money when I have a perfectly good 5.5G model. We'll see what's announced Wednesday.

Thomas2006
Aug 31, 2007, 10:43 AM
I imagine the studios are not happy that folks can now buy just the one or two tracks they want from a CD for $2 instead of being forced to get the whole thing for $12. So wanting to bundle "unpopular" shows with "popular" ones for 3x or 4x the price helps recover the costs of producing those "unpopular" shows.
While bundling might help studios recover the cost of "unpopular" shows it is unfair to stick customers with that cost. If we do not want the shows why should we have to buy (bundled content) or pay (higher prices) for them?

Laurent
Aug 31, 2007, 10:47 AM
NBC and Universal Music are trying to play hardball with apple. It seems really dumb. Why would I want to sign up to 12 different sites to buy my shows or music. I don't want to go to hbo.com and the universalmusic.com or nbcdigitalstuff.net and then sonyconnect... I want one easy store. That's how grocery stores work! The leading peanut butter manufacturer doesn't open up its own store to defend and control it's brand, they sell their stuff at the grocery store because it's easier and that's where the people who eat pb are.

But seriously, Mr. Jobs, would it kill you to be a little flexible on flexible pricing?Yeah, the first that came to my mind when I saw that rumor was "NBC Universal"...

tribulation
Aug 31, 2007, 10:50 AM
I would assume you have never used an Apple TV. I own one and love it. Hey and guess what! I have never purchassed a movie or a TV show from iTunes. I use it for much more. In case you didn't know it does actually stream music from your computer to your tv and videos and youtube content. Everytime a friend comes over(most are not Apple fans) they love it and want one for the youtube alone. So I doubt it will be discontinued. Maybe upgraded but not discontinued.

The only way I can see the iTV ever working or being worth anything at all is, if they can setup a subscription service similar to cable. If you don't want it, don't buy it. But since they aren't going to go the DVR route, the iTV is an all-around looser for about 99.9% of the population. If they had a subscription option [hence OPTION], I'd probably be on board. Drop my normal cable subscription and get the couple extra bonus features in the iTV.

But paying for a single TV show is really, really, really pointless and horribly expensive for anyone that watches more than a couple shows per week. This subscription topic has been discussed many times on here before. Apple probably won't ever cave in and do what would be the best option, if not solely for the fact that they have previously mentioned that subscription services are "not what the consumer wants". Well, I do, and I'm not buying their product.

I can guarantee you, 101% that the iTV will never take off if it stays as-is. With a pay-per-show model. Sorry, the "I want to own it" model for music doesn't overlap into the TV area. For the ever so small few that want to own a TV episode for some odd reason, there's always the option to buy it --- I'm not saying for Apple to remove that option. But to add an ongoing entirely new revenue stream ---> "iTunes Cable" or the like, that would be a totally new market and moneymaker for them. The big cable companies are going to go that route, but they have much to loose and it will take them years to get going. Apple is in the position right this moment to change all of that entirely and be the innovative leader in this arena. They'd earn subscription fees and product sales fees, it'd be a win-win situation for them.

A few years ago, the argument could've been made that they wouldn't have wanted to get into such an "unrelated field". These days, they have their hands all over the map in all kinds of odd industries. So yes, I see this as a natural extension to the iTunes store [heck, things aren't looking so positive for it lately anyways, they need a change, and soon]. But if they let the major cable providers get their feet in and do it first, they almost certainly don't stand a chance. Not an easy feat by any means, but doable by Apple --- yes definitely. Will they? Probably not. :(

X38
Aug 31, 2007, 10:50 AM
Good riddance!

The big question has been where is the DVR function that is glaringly absent from iLife??

I recall when TV shows first started coming to iTunes that some NBC executive was quoted as saying (paraphrased from memory) 'other computer makers should play nice like Apple and not build DVR's into their systems' and those comments were at least implicitly linked to why NBC agreed to sell on iTunes.

Well, I for one don't care much about what NBC has for sale, but I do VERY much want a DVR built in to iLife / iTunes. Time for Apple to let NBC choke on its own greed and let loose a killer DVR on the market. Then we can get all the NBC shows we want for free and when NBC's ad revenue drops to zero they can come groveling back to iTunes and sell us their shows for 10 cents on the dollar so we can avoid the inconvenience of waiting for our DVR's to snag a broadcast rerun.

cuestakid
Aug 31, 2007, 10:54 AM
What the heck do you suppose that means? Has anyone heard of any meaningful FairPlay cracks recently? Or of NBC abandoning formats that are long since cracked (e.g., DVD)?

Apparently they want apple to make it harder for people to get access to illgeal downloads. So essentially they want a computer company to somehow deny you the ability to download limewire or something like that.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6770112


in a related story, the sony store has surrendered

http://playlistmag.com/news/2007/08/31/connect/index.php

thestaton
Aug 31, 2007, 10:59 AM
it's pretty simple. i'll buy 30 Rock & The Office on iTunes, or I'll just get it off a torrent.

hrm....

digitalbiker
Aug 31, 2007, 11:00 AM
NBC is already last in network ratings, what next, close up shop???


Don't you think that itunes might be partially responsible for that?

Possibly more people are downloading Heroes, Earl, Office, etc rather than watching over-the-air. That means NBC's Nielson ratings drop and NBC gets less money from advertisers. NBC contracts with advertisers are linked to ratings. High-rating shows get more money for ads than low rated shows.

Maybe NBC wants to make up for that revenue loss by asking more from Apple itunes content. Either they want to add the ads to itunes content or they want to be able to get more money from ad-free content.

Since this is a free-market economy, NBC has the choice to either sale through itunes or find a new retailer. Apple also has the choice to either allow more flexible pricing / ad bundling for content providers or lose content. Both have a choice. Isn't America beautiful?

s10
Aug 31, 2007, 11:01 AM
It's exactly like when video cassettes came out; there where 3 types.. very inconvenient.. so in the end one type won, vhs, and video boomed.

Now they have to find one new download format, Apple looks like the winner, but the studios don't want the same thing to happen to them as what happened to the music business..

Apple owns the music download business, the music industry has no way out.

This scares the ***** out of the TV/Movie bosses.

X38
Aug 31, 2007, 11:05 AM
[...]
But Apple knows that there are limits to what people will spend - as it is, there are people who think the prices being charged right now ($1 a track, $2 an episode, $10 a movie, etc.) are too much - they know that raising that price even more is not going to help anyone (not Apple, not the users, not the content companies).

Count me in that group. I think everything on iTunes is priced at least twice what it is worth and I hold my nose everytime I buy. Even so, I don't buy ANY music, TV shows, movies, etc. anywhere else now becasue iTunes is still cheaper than the alternatives.
If they cut the prices on iTunes in half, I would definitely purchase far more that double what I purchase now and the amount everyone profits from me would greatly increase.

dswoodley
Aug 31, 2007, 11:05 AM
I think both Apple and NBC are being pigheaded on this if it is a pricing issue. Apple wants all episodes of any tv show to be $1.99, that's like a store telling all cereal makers they must sell EVERY box of cereal for $3.99 or something. I honestly don't think most buyers would care of they had to pay $2.19 for the Office and $1.89 for LaO SVU.

The bundling issue? Now that's something else entirely...

guzhogi
Aug 31, 2007, 11:09 AM
Haven't read all the posts so sorry if I'm repeating someone. I feel that NBC & Universal want to get more money out of these. So if they raise their price, people would start looking in other places. Some might get DVDs. But those don't come out until after the season ends, there's probably copy protection on them so you can't copy them to your computer, and NBC/Universal might raise the prices on DVDs & CDs, too. So people will start pirating this stuff again. And why do they need the extra money? Just so the CEO can go fom a $20 Million salary to a $30 million salry, and add $10 million every year while all the people who actually make the DVDs get only $8/hr?

razorme
Aug 31, 2007, 11:12 AM
I think both Apple and NBC are being pigheaded on this if it is a pricing issue. Apple wants all episodes of any tv show to be $1.99, that's like a store telling all cereal makers they must sell EVERY box of cereal for $3.99 or something. I honestly don't think most buyers would care of they had to pay $2.19 for the Office and $1.89 for LaO SVU.

The bundling issue? Now that's something else entirely...

Apple says they would have had to raise the price to $4.99 an episode with NBC's new terms.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070831/aqf030.html?.v=19

AT71
Aug 31, 2007, 11:23 AM
Er... hate to ask.

But anyone know a way to remove the DRM from the videos bought in iTunes Store using a Mac?

Sick of all these DRM nonsense.

AT71
Aug 31, 2007, 11:25 AM
Looks like Heroes and Bionic Woman will not be available on iTunes Store this month after reading the Yahoo! news.

milo
Aug 31, 2007, 11:27 AM
Don't you think that itunes might be partially responsible for that?

Nope. TV shows work on momentum and word of mouth. iTunes has been widely credited with saving the Office. It was struggling before it went onto iTunes and the fact that it sold well probably kept it from being cancelled.

Possibly more people are downloading Heroes, Earl, Office, etc rather than watching over-the-air.

Maybe that's true. But NBC at least makes money from iTunes sales. If they switch to something else that's more expensive or less convenient, many of the people downloading will likely just switch to a "free" download if you know what I mean. I don't see how NBC gains anything from that.

Maybe NBC wants to make up for that revenue loss by asking more from Apple itunes content. Either they want to add the ads to itunes content or they want to be able to get more money from ad-free content.

droz
Aug 31, 2007, 11:29 AM
Apple says they would have had to raise the price to $4.99 an episode with NBC's new terms.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070831/aqf030.html?.v=19

yeah, that's just crazy. Personally, i had stopped buying tv shows online anyway (waiting for them to be offered at HD). Plus they are widely available for free at many many locations (in HD).

At any rate, can't wait for NBC and Vivendi Universal to wake up about 6 months from now and wonder where all there online sales went. 4.99. what a fricking joke.

Sheradon
Aug 31, 2007, 11:30 AM
I used to bittorren my shows before Itunes....

If NBC removes their shows off Itunes and starts selling elsewhere i will not follow them...will go back to bittoren download.

I'm sure i'm not the only one who thinks like that, NBC would be fools to leave.

milo
Aug 31, 2007, 11:31 AM
Looks like Heroes and Bionic Woman will not be available on iTunes Store this month after reading the Yahoo! news.

And considering the Bionic Woman pilot has been online for weeks, if not months, complete with "property of NBC" in the corner, they're off to a great start fighting piracy! Best of luck, guys. :p

AT71
Aug 31, 2007, 11:32 AM
What if FOX follows suit? Geez! There goes my "24".

Better stop investing in iTunes Store contents. I blame Apple for this mess too.

Back to collecting DVDs. The F thing is, a new format war.

God! When will this end?

Can't everyone agree on something?

Guess man juz like to make things complex.

F@#%!!!

Matthew Yohe
Aug 31, 2007, 11:32 AM
Apple's statement:

"iTunes Store To Stop Selling NBC Television Shows

CUPERTINO, California—August 31, 2007—Apple® today announced that it will not be selling NBC television shows for the upcoming television season on its online iTunes® Store (www.itunes.com). The move follows NBC’s decision to not renew its agreement with iTunes after Apple declined to pay more than double the wholesale price for each NBC TV episode, which would have resulted in the retail price to consumers increasing to $4.99 per episode from the current $1.99. ABC, CBS, FOX and The CW, along with more than 50 cable networks, are signed up to sell TV shows from their upcoming season on iTunes at $1.99 per episode.

“We are disappointed to see NBC leave iTunes because we would not agree to their dramatic price increase,” said Eddy Cue, Apple’s vice president of iTunes. “We hope they will change their minds and offer their TV shows to the tens of millions of iTunes customers.”

Apple’s agreement with NBC ends in December. Since NBC would withdraw their shows in the middle of the television season, Apple has decided to not offer NBC TV shows for the upcoming television season beginning in September. NBC supplied iTunes with three of its 10 best selling TV shows last season, accounting for 30 percent of iTunes TV show sales.

Apple ignited the personal ... (boilerplate)"

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/08/31itunes.html

Stella
Aug 31, 2007, 11:41 AM
"NBC supplied iTunes with three of its 10 best selling TV shows last season, accounting for 30 percent of iTunes TV show sales."

Wow 30%. Apple are upping the stakes!

No doubt NBC and Apple will start talks!

--

What is it with digital content that companies think they can add a huge premium for no apparent reason?

A good example of this are music stores that you can buy music directly from from your cell phone... often exceeding an extra $1 on top of what you'd pay for on iTMS and others.

EagerDragon
Aug 31, 2007, 11:43 AM
Makes very little difference to me, I actualy watch very little TV and have purchased a total of 3 videos from iTunes.

Most of the times im on my Mac, learning something, trying something, working on something, reading rss, visiting sites, chatting, playing a game, editing photos, making a video, and occational uTube (one a month or so).

If the TV is on, is for someone else enjoyment, to me it is mainly background (white) noice.

In my case, nothing lost and nothing gained.

digitalbiker
Aug 31, 2007, 11:43 AM
Nope. TV shows work on momentum and word of mouth. iTunes has been widely credited with saving the Office. It was struggling before it went onto iTunes and the fact that it sold well probably kept it from being cancelled.

Maybe it saved Office from being cancelled because of strong itunes sales but that still doesn't increase the Neilson ratings.

Advertising charges are linked to ratings. High rated shows get more money from ads than low rated shows.

Therefore the more people that buy tv from itunes the fewer people that watch over-the-air, this results in lower Neilson ratings, or in other words less revenue from advertising.

The network needs to make up that lost revenue somehow. They hope that increasing itunes download pricing will offset the revenue lost. If it doesn't then content providers will slowly go broke or they will have to stop creating high-cost productions. This spells bad news for high-paid actors, or high priced special effect television productions.

cmonster
Aug 31, 2007, 11:47 AM
Guess everyone will go back to using bittorent to download them. To bad NBC will loose all that revenue.

sbarton
Aug 31, 2007, 11:51 AM
Queue an update that brings DiVX and Xvid compatability to iTunes, iPhone, and the iPod in 5.....4......3.....2....1.....

Sheradon
Aug 31, 2007, 11:53 AM
Apple says they would have had to raise the price to $4.99 an episode with NBC's new terms.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070831/aqf030.html?.v=19

who would pay 100$ for a season pass insane!!!!!

My take is that this is only to hurt Apple vs other distributors.

Thataboy
Aug 31, 2007, 11:56 AM
I don't buy video off of iTunes because I think it is already WAY too expensive and low resolution (never mind the DRM issues).

But NBC is being simply insane. They wanted $4.99 for an episode of television???? I don't care if it is DRM-free, HD, and covered in diamonds... 5 bucks for an episode of television is out-of-this-world nuts.

Yea, good luck to Hulu. I think the torrent sites are going to see a big spike in traffic.

Sheradon
Aug 31, 2007, 11:58 AM
What if FOX follows suit? Geez! There goes my "24".

Better stop investing in iTunes Store contents. I blame Apple for this mess too.

Back to collecting DVDs. The F thing is, a new format war.


On the contrary that is exactly wath NBC wants ppl to do !!!

If you stick with Itunes it will be NBC that will have to come back for lack of revenues !!!

If ppl go back to DVD's then you are doing just what NBC is looking for.

milo
Aug 31, 2007, 11:59 AM
What if FOX follows suit? Geez! There goes my "24".

Better stop investing in iTunes Store contents. I blame Apple for this mess too.


So if apple went along and raised prices to $4.99 per episode, you'd be happy? If NBC insisted on doubling prices, what do you propose apple should have done?

Therefore the more people that buy tv from itunes the fewer people that watch over-the-air

That's not a safe assumption to make. It ignores people that see an episode and buy it to watch it repeatedly, and it ignores people who miss an episode and if it wasn't available on iTunes would end up pirating it or just not seeing it. It's not a zero sum game.

Black Belt
Aug 31, 2007, 12:06 PM
Er... hate to ask.

But anyone know a way to remove the DRM from the videos bought in iTunes Store using a Mac?

Sick of all these DRM nonsense.

Buy DVDs and Rip 'em. That way you only buy it once and you can watch it on your DVD player AND your iPod.

I don't really like downloading movies/shows because it is lower quality AND I still have to back it up onto disk at MY COST. Not such a bargain, especially at NBCs idiotic $4.50. That is simply nuts. When I can buy a season on DVD for 30-40 bucks on nice new DVDs and packaging and extras and everything, even 1.99 for an episode is way too much.

Mitch1984
Aug 31, 2007, 12:08 PM
Universal have it in for Apple & YouTube because they are doing their own store and their own video site.

wolfpackfan
Aug 31, 2007, 01:06 PM
I used to bittorren my shows before Itunes....

If NBC removes their shows off Itunes and starts selling elsewhere i will not follow them...will go back to bittoren download.

I'm sure i'm not the only one who thinks like that, NBC would be fools to leave.

Is using bittorrent illegal? I'm sorry if this is a dumb question, but I really don't know anything about it.

Maccus Aurelius
Aug 31, 2007, 01:10 PM
Maybe it saved Office from being cancelled because of strong itunes sales but that still doesn't increase the Neilson ratings.

Advertising charges are linked to ratings. High rated shows get more money from ads than low rated shows.

Therefore the more people that buy tv from itunes the fewer people that watch over-the-air, this results in lower Neilson ratings, or in other words less revenue from advertising.

The network needs to make up that lost revenue somehow. They hope that increasing itunes download pricing will offset the revenue lost. If it doesn't then content providers will slowly go broke or they will have to stop creating high-cost productions. This spells bad news for high-paid actors, or high priced special effect television productions.


Are there any figures to determine that this is even the case? I could argue that DVD box sets threaten the revenue stream of reruns left in syndication. NBC is simply stupid for wanting to raise the price that much, and I very much agree with Apple for not going along with it. Why?

Because if Apple were to agree to this pricing, who do you think most people will blame? They'll blame Apple, and NBC will be sitting pretty knowing that they were able to get everything they wanted. Have you read the reviews on the iTunes store? Whenever there's a complaint about the price of a show, movie or album, people complain that iTunes needs to straighten up or iTunes should change their policy, because many many people are simply unaware of the content provider involvement. Every time content providers push to get prices hiked, Apple knows that people will get pissed, but then get pissed off at them more than the studios/labels.

freediverdude
Aug 31, 2007, 01:12 PM
Well, good luck with that proprietary beta video service, NBC. I'm sure the Zune owners (all 15) will just love that. I seriously hope that even the NBC execs didn't actually want $5 per episode, and that was just used as an excuse to back out of iTunes. If they really thought they could get $5 per episode out of most people, then they are completely deluded and need some psychiatric help. Hello?? A lot of this content you can get with rabbit ear antennae most places. And in HD!! Granted it has commercials, but still......are the NBC execs that out of touch?

Cappy
Aug 31, 2007, 01:17 PM
Apple wants all episodes of any tv show to be $1.99, that's like a store telling all cereal makers they must sell EVERY box of cereal for $3.99 or something. I honestly don't think most buyers would care of they had to pay $2.19 for the Office and $1.89 for LaO SVU.

What isolated cave have you been living in? ;)

Comparing this to cereal boxes is like apples and oranges. You forget that the industry is also fighting piracy. How many people do you know that go out stealing cereal and exchange it with everyone they know?

In case you didn't know...they don't. Apple has capitalized on convenience with a balance of cost. This is why Apple doesn't make much off of each download. If they raise the price more, it'll drive many of their customers to pirate rather than buy.

zap2
Aug 31, 2007, 01:20 PM
Wow, 5 bucks per episode!

Screw you NBC, even if we're looking Monk and Psyche

Cappy
Aug 31, 2007, 01:46 PM
After pondering this a bit...

For what it's worth one should ask how is NBC going to deliver their content through the web. One big question with that is...will it be viewable on an iphone?

While I'm no fan of NBC, it could very well be that while, yes, they are greedy, they are merely looking to capitalize on devices from Apple like the iphone and see that selling in much greater quantities than the iphone. This might allow them to maintain more control over what they make through advertising plus still eventually hit a pretty large audience. As long as they don't go overboard with the ads, this isn't so bad for the viewing public.

I have a video ipod and quite frankly having video on it is more of a novelty. That's for my needs of course. Using an iphone or viewing shows at a decent res on a fullsize monitor is a much more attractive idea for me and I bet alot of others. In the end NBC could actually spin this so that it looks like Apple is hanging onto an antiquated(already!) system.

AT71
Aug 31, 2007, 02:25 PM
On the contrary that is exactly wath NBC wants ppl to do !!!

If you stick with Itunes it will be NBC that will have to come back for lack of revenues !!!

If ppl go back to DVD's then you are doing just what NBC is looking for.

Come to think of it, I won't go for either. Just borrow the DVD from friends. Or rent.

AT71
Aug 31, 2007, 02:27 PM
So if apple went along and raised prices to $4.99 per episode, you'd be happy? If NBC insisted on doubling prices, what do you propose apple should have done?

That's not a safe assumption to make. It ignores people that see an episode and buy it to watch it repeatedly, and it ignores people who miss an episode and if it wasn't available on iTunes would end up pirating it or just not seeing it. It's not a zero sum game.

Kinda missed on the price hike. 4.99 per episode is madness!

Guess don't watch NBC shows.

AT71
Aug 31, 2007, 02:29 PM
Buy DVDs and Rip 'em. That way you only buy it once and you can watch it on your DVD player AND your iPod.

I don't really like downloading movies/shows because it is lower quality AND I still have to back it up onto disk at MY COST. Not such a bargain, especially at NBCs idiotic $4.50. That is simply nuts. When I can buy a season on DVD for 30-40 bucks on nice new DVDs and packaging and extras and everything, even 1.99 for an episode is way too much.

My problem with DVD is, you never know when the disc will turn into a coaster. I have a few DVD titles just become useless plastic despite being well kept.

Moof1904
Aug 31, 2007, 02:56 PM
WTF does NBC care about anti-piracy?!?! I don't know how other countries work, but in the US, the NBC content (and that of all other non-cable networks) is broadcast on the open airwaves for anyone to receive free of charge.

Let me get this straight: I can get NBC content free with a $12 antenna on my roof but if I want to download it using my $3000 computer and $50 a month internet connection I have to pay for each episode AND deal with DRM?

No f--king thanks.

Snowy_River
Aug 31, 2007, 03:20 PM
Well, it seems like a lot of people have said it very well. NBC is being asinine, greedy, and all around stupid. They have one program that I care about, and I wouldn't be willing to pay $4.99 for each episode of it. (As someone pointed out, that would be about $100 for a season! Getting a season on DVD, higher res., play anywhere, plus extras, is less than half that!) Sorry, that price is absurd. I'm sorry to see them leaving the iTS, but if they can't see what is painfully obvious to everyone here, then they'll be destined to failure in all of their endeavors.

Sayonara NBC.

The Toon Master
Aug 31, 2007, 03:23 PM
itunes will lighten up. The Office, Psych, and Euerka are usually in the top 10 when they have new episode, and they basically provide all of the stuff on the Sci-Fi catagory..

offwidafairies
Aug 31, 2007, 03:30 PM
Im happy to hear Apple has some backbone and is not buckling under pressure. :)

pimentoLoaf
Aug 31, 2007, 04:47 PM
In a MarketWatch article, I was intrigued by this paragraph:

'NBC Universal also asked Apple to "take concrete steps" to prevent piracy, the spokesman stated, "since it is estimated that the typical iPod contains a significant amount of illegally downloaded material." '

In other words, Apple has to engineer the iPod & iTunes so no one can transfer non-DRM material into the device. Scan the incoming content for DRM; if it's not present, don't load it.

So if Apple can produce a DRM-only device, NBC can rest assured that no one will transfer their non-iTunes shows via bitTorrent or ...

Wait a minute... :p

Snowy_River
Aug 31, 2007, 05:49 PM
In a MarketWatch article, I was intrigued by this paragraph:

'NBC Universal also asked Apple to "take concrete steps" to prevent piracy, the spokesman stated, "since it is estimated that the typical iPod contains a significant amount of illegally downloaded material." '

In other words, Apple has to engineer the iPod & iTunes so no one can transfer non-DRM material into the device. Scan the incoming content for DRM; if it's not present, don't load it.

In short, if Apple can produce a DRM-only device, NBC can rest assured that no one will transfer their non-iTunes shows via bitTorrent or ...

Wait a minute... :p

That is truly absurd. And how is Apple supposed to discriminate between legally ripped (i.e. I bought a CD and imported the tracks into iTunes) and illegally downloaded (i.e. I found a song on Limewire and grabbed it) songs? Or are they talking about videos? Though the same argument can be applied there, too. How on Earth is Apple supposed to discriminate between legally ripped videos (i.e. ripped from the iPod owner's DVD library) and illegally downloaded videos (i.e. ripped from someone else's DVD library)?

The answer is... it can't be done! Not unless iTunes allows ripping, but everything that it rips, music or videos, are automatically encoded with DRM.


And, of course, we all know that everyone would cheer on a move like that from Apple.


:rolleyes:

Black Belt
Aug 31, 2007, 07:09 PM
the spokesman stated, "since it is estimated that the typical iPod contains a significant amount of illegally downloaded material." '

This is slander. NBC openly slandered iPod Users!

Cappy
Aug 31, 2007, 07:51 PM
My problem with DVD is, you never know when the disc will turn into a coaster. I have a few DVD titles just become useless plastic despite being well kept.

Just about any dvd's with mainstream material from legit sources are pressed and aren't going to turn into a coaster unless you store them in an environment not suitable for dvd's.

It's dvd's that are burned that can go bad from just sitting around as burned dvd's use a chemical processed that can and will most likely go bad at some point.

Cleverboy
Aug 31, 2007, 08:29 PM
What a shame. I guess I'll miss out of Battlestar Galactica this season (I don't have cable for SCIFI). Instead of buying the season on iTunes, I guess I'll just rent it long after the fact on my existing Netflix account. If I want it elsewhere, I guess I'll just have to teach myself to rip these things, or become gradually disinterested. Actually, by the time BSG comes out on DVD, I probably won't care anymore. Way to monetize that final season NBC! I don't buy seasons on DVD... well, Justice League Unlimited being the exception. iTunes tricked me into slurping up seasons of content and sometimes buying the season outright. They must not have much confidence in their programming. This has got to be woefully idiotic. I know NBC was suffering problems with programming, and almost went for game shows wholehog, but come on now... things were just turning around.

If not on iTunes, DEAD TO ME:
+ 30 Rock
+ The Office (which iTunes is creditted with saving)
+ Heroes

So help me, if I miss 2 eps of Heroes on TV, I'll probably not watch it much at all.

~ CB

Cleverboy
Aug 31, 2007, 09:16 PM
In a MarketWatch article, I was intrigued by this paragraph:
'NBC Universal also asked Apple to "take concrete steps" to prevent piracy, the spokesman stated, "since it is estimated that the typical iPod contains a significant amount of illegally downloaded material." ' More concrete than preventing people from REMOVING content from the device through iTunes? More concrete than making it really easy for people to BUY content? Does anyone else take these fairy tale "steps" to prevent piracy? Maybe Steve Jobs should bath three times in chicken blood at mid-night. Maybe that would help prevent piracy...

~ CB

motulist
Sep 1, 2007, 06:18 AM
the spokesman stated, "since it is estimated that the typical iPod contains a significant amount of illegally downloaded material."

This is slander. NBC openly slandered iPod Users!

It's not slander if it's true.

diamond.g
Sep 1, 2007, 07:52 AM
The answer is... it can't be done! Not unless iTunes allows ripping, but everything that it rips, music or videos, are automatically encoded with DRM.


And, of course, we all know that everyone would cheer on a move like that from Apple.


:rolleyes:

There is an option to add DRM to songs ripped from CD. I honestly don't see why people here wouldn't use that option. I dunno what Apple could do with the video. Maybe convert it all to protected format as you import it. It isn't like most of us would use a non apple device to play back such media. So what would be the difference?

Queso
Sep 1, 2007, 08:02 AM
'NBC Universal also asked Apple to "take concrete steps" to prevent piracy, the spokesman stated, "since it is estimated that the typical iPod contains a significant amount of illegally downloaded material." '
And if NBC Universal carry on making the purchase of legitimate material harder, there will be an even more significant amount.

Sixteen years since the invention of the MP3 format, and they still haven't worked out that the genie is out of the bottle have they? Or is this simply betraying their true aim, a fee for every iPod sold as with every Zune?

happylittlemac
Sep 1, 2007, 08:23 PM
The reaction from NBC does not surprise me, I've always thought the music, TV and movie industries need to be dragged screaming and kicking into the digital media revolution, you have to understand these companies don't think outside of the box and they love to have complete control, because for them it's not about doing something amazing. creative, revolutionary or taking risks for them it's about making more money and then making some more.

happylittlemac
Sep 1, 2007, 08:28 PM
It's not slander if it's true.

It's not slander and it's not true either, for example my iPod has 3 songs I got from a friend that I copied and the other about 200 I downloaded from iTunes. I don't know if any spokesman from what company said that tho.