PDA

View Full Version : Apple to Stop Selling NBC Television Shows




Pages : [1] 2

MacRumors
Aug 31, 2007, 11:51 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

After report today (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/31/nbc-to-end-itunes-sales/) that NBC and Apple were unable to come to an agreement on pricing, Apple confirmed (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/08/31itunes.html) in a press release that they would not be selling NBC television shows for the upcoming season on iTunes.

Apple explains the move by stating that NBC had wanted "double the wholesale price" for each NBC episode and claimed it could result in a retail price of $4.99 per episode. They also state that ABC, CBS, FOX and The CW have continued television show sales at the same price as last season ($1.99 per episode).
"We are disappointed to see NBC leave iTunes because we would not agree to their dramatic price increase," said Eddy Cue, Apple's vice president of iTunes. "We hope they will change their minds and offer their TV shows to the tens of millions of iTunes customers."

NBC's current shows will continue to be available on iTunes until December of this year. NBC accounted for 30% of iTunes TV sales.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/31/apple-to-stop-selling-nbc-television-shows/)



IJ Reilly
Aug 31, 2007, 11:53 AM
So, who is going to sell NBC shows online, if not Apple?

Shanesan
Aug 31, 2007, 11:55 AM
Good riddance, I say. Money hungry little crooks.

chrisgeleven
Aug 31, 2007, 11:55 AM
Who the heck would pay $4.99 per TV Show episode?

Are you kidding me?

Talk about being greedy.

Buschmaster
Aug 31, 2007, 11:57 AM
Selling NBC shows to me, IJ Reilly?

Nobody.

bluebomberman
Aug 31, 2007, 11:57 AM
And just like that, Apple takes the PR high ground. Ouch.

exit1200
Aug 31, 2007, 11:58 AM
Looks like I'll be downloading "The Office" and "30 Rock" from other (free) sources.

OrangeCuse44
Aug 31, 2007, 11:58 AM
Wizzzzzzzeak.

edcrosay
Aug 31, 2007, 12:00 PM
Bit Torrent for the win.
They could have had my money, but I guess it's not good enough for them.

itcomesinwaves
Aug 31, 2007, 12:00 PM
I doubt they thought that Apple would go for the price hike. More likely they stuck to the absurd price just to scuttle the deal. They, like many other media companies, imagine that they (or one of their partners.. *cough* MS *cough*) can do a better job of selling digital content online. Time will tell, but so far the only significant competition to the iTunes Store is P2P.

Corrosive vinyl
Aug 31, 2007, 12:01 PM
4.99 a tv show episode? for that I would just buy the dvd or go the netflix route. what about NBCs 40% of downloads? It is upsetting to hear the 4.99 price when I have things from NBC news which were free.

samh004
Aug 31, 2007, 12:01 PM
And just like that, Apple takes the PR high ground. Ouch.

Looks like I'll be downloading "The Office" and "30 Rock" from other (free) sources.

I can't believe they'd try something like that, when the music companies follow suit, piracy will become more rampant again and the small profit they made from iTunes will completely drop...

All this proves are these companies really are stupid. I hope NBC really suffers while not on iTunes, I hope they lose tons of money.

iSee
Aug 31, 2007, 12:02 PM
Dang, I downloaded The Office, 30 Rock, and Heroes last season... No more.

I've got to get a TiVo-type thing, I guess...

Edit: $3.99 - $4.99 per show is impossible. What in the world are they thinking. It might be worth it to run NBC's shows at that price for a while and look at their profits from iTunes plummet.

chrisgeleven
Aug 31, 2007, 12:02 PM
I like this move by Apple. By saying that 50 other cable companies have already agreed to the $1.99 per episode price, Apple is basically backing NBC into a corner and calling their bluff.

I don't see how NBC can think they are going to win on this one.

itcomesinwaves
Aug 31, 2007, 12:03 PM
So, who is going to sell NBC shows online, if not Apple?

Well, considering that MS is the other half of MSNBC, I imagine it will be Microsoft. I heard that all of NBCs shows are going to be up on the Xbox Live Marketplace this season. Granted, you have to buy a $350 game machine to buy the episodes, but maybe they're thinking of expanding the service?

mahonmeister
Aug 31, 2007, 12:03 PM
Some stations stream their tv shows online free of charge. NBC thinks people would be willing to pay 5 bucks per episode?! Ha!

irun5k
Aug 31, 2007, 12:04 PM
Not sure if the pricing was the only issue with signing a new deal, but we do know this:

The other networks were satisfied with the $1.99 pricing.

The networks make money from advertising, generally. Maybe they don''t know how to act when they are actually selling episodes for a fee to the consumer. However, they have done this before with complete season DVDs. $5/episode would make a complete season very costly!

shunpike
Aug 31, 2007, 12:04 PM
talk about shooting yourself in the foot NBC - $4.99 that is ludicrous!

Thankyou iTunes 4 not caving in to these stupid demads!

<3 :apple: <3

akuma13
Aug 31, 2007, 12:05 PM
I would not be suprised if this is connected to the HD wars too. NBC owns Universal which is adamant about only supporting HD-DVD. Apple is with Blue Ray? Watch Microsft X-box online service announce exclusivity to NBC shows.

OhEsTen
Aug 31, 2007, 12:05 PM
Isn't NBC owned by "evil" Universal? I can see this as some major corporate posturing here. Universal is using NBC and their DRM-free music as a test to see how much clout Apple has. If their ventures fail - then that will be a signal to them that iTunes is the only gig in town. However, their hope is that by withdrawing these "smaller" ventures (in compared to their music sector) they can start an exodus that others may follow.

I don't see this as working at all and I hope it doesn't. Universal's only reason for doing any of this is to hike prices up. Greedy ***** heads. I think they need to "bite the curb".

zhemgang
Aug 31, 2007, 12:06 PM
I agree, good for Apple to call their bluff. 30% of iTunes TV show sales cannot be an insubstantial loss for NBC. Just downright greedy!

akuma13
Aug 31, 2007, 12:06 PM
Itcomes... beat me to it.

TitoC
Aug 31, 2007, 12:07 PM
So I guess everyone who posted earlier, guessing it was NBC wanting more money, were right. So "money-hungry" bastards I assume is appropriate now (officially)? It looks like it WASN'T about them getting more of a percentage or Apple wanting anything new, it was just NBC saying "Hey, this has worked really well for us so far, so let's screw it up, just like we did in the music biz. We're greedy, we know it. We can't help it."

Nobody was offering anything like iTunes back in the beginning, so NBC went along. Now that it has become very popular, they want to screw their customers. The very ones that have supported this business model. Classic. Then when they go somewhere else to sell their online digital content and find that it doesn't give them the access and success like iTunes, let's see where they stand then.

Oh, and then maybe they can see people downloading Bit-torrents of their shows more and more.

NBC executive: "Hey, what happened? Where did everyone go?"

ellsworth
Aug 31, 2007, 12:07 PM
I'm glad Apple is keeping a stiffy on pricing. I'm pretty sure Amazon will be Happy to Sell NBC shows or maybe NBC should just give'em away for Free ;)
-Crooks

bellychris
Aug 31, 2007, 12:08 PM
Wow thats just pure greed. If anything they are gaining money from someone who pays two dollars per episode. For example season three of the office has 23 episodes. Thats about 46 dollars if you were to buy the episodes individually. Now at 5 dollars that would come out to about 115 dollars. Who would pay that when you can get the season dvd for about 32 dollars at amazon? At least one company still sticks up for its customers.

Fahrwahr
Aug 31, 2007, 12:08 PM
Maybe Vivendi has something to do with this? They hold 20% of NBC Universal and 100% of Universal Music Group, and we know what's happened between Apple and UMG.

(Edit: Well, OhEsTen alluded to Universal being involved, but I checked NBC Universal's web site, and GE holds 80%, so Universal doesn't exactly "own" NBC.)

itcomesinwaves
Aug 31, 2007, 12:09 PM
"I'm not sure that we'd still have the show on the air" without the iTunes boost, says Angela Bromstead, president of NBC Universal Television Studio, which owns and produces "The Office." "The network had only ordered so many episodes, but when it went on iTunes and really started taking off, that gave us another way to see the true potential other than just Nielsen. It just kind of happened at a great time."

Moe
Aug 31, 2007, 12:11 PM
EyeTV (http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetvhybridna) and antenna. At 0¢ per episode, amortizes pretty quickly. And it's HD, not near-DVD.

This model also works on the PC with Hauppauge drivers. I use BeyondTV for PVR there.

diamond.g
Aug 31, 2007, 12:12 PM
Who the heck would pay $4.99 per TV Show episode?

Are you kidding me?

Talk about being greedy.
Xbox Live TV shows are close to that price already. Although once IPTV goes live I am not sure how that is going to affect things. (I can't wait).
I would not be suprised if this is connected to the HD wars too. NBC owns Universal which is adamant about only supporting HD-DVD. Apple is with Blue Ray? Watch Microsft X-box online service announce exclusivity to NBC shows.

Apple supports both formats.

bravedeer
Aug 31, 2007, 12:14 PM
That's why bittorrent exists :) When a corporation choses to make no money because they can't get double the money they were making you know they deserve to be robbed. :)

sbarton
Aug 31, 2007, 12:14 PM
Why doesn't Apple offer DiVX and XVID compatability to iTunes and the iPhone/iPod. Then your could take your DVD's and rip them into iTunes like you can with CD's and manage them just like we do with music tracks.

This would setup a similar model to when the iPod first came out and give the consumer a legitimate option to building thier online media library.

Every music track I've purchased over the last 4 years or so has been through the iTunes muisc store. Prior to that, I accumulated them from...*cough*...other places, including ripping CD's.

I think having that equalizer servered a great service to the consumer AND the companies selling videos.

Make it Legitimate, Make it Fair, and Make it Convienant.

age234
Aug 31, 2007, 12:15 PM
The networks are desperate in this ad-free age of Tivo and iTunes downloads. They're going to have to figure out a new way to get advertisers, because charging $5 for a 22-minute episode isn't going to fly.

What they should do is go after product placement, and then give the episodes away for free and embrace file sharing. They'll make the same amount of money, if not more, because they can charge advertisers more, since more people will be seeing products in the shows if they get it for free.

sosumi1981
Aug 31, 2007, 12:15 PM
At least now we shouldn't have to hear anymore of that "they just want to prevent a monopoly" crap that some buffoon always starts spouting.

yoman
Aug 31, 2007, 12:16 PM
It is unfortunate that NBC has decided to withdraw from the millions of potential customers the iTunes Store serves. Hopefully as time passes NBC may decide to return.

TitoC
Aug 31, 2007, 12:17 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, start your DVD recorders!
(then of course, start your HandBrake (http://handbrake.m0k.org/) conversions and such . . . .).

swingerofbirch
Aug 31, 2007, 12:18 PM
Wow. I've given a lot of money to NBC through iTunes. In fact almost all of my TV purchases were NBC. I bought all three seasons of the Office from them, and a couple episodes of 30 Rock.

It was already pretty expensive per season given that the price of the DVD sets was about the same, in higher quality, and with extras.

The other thing is that I would have never discovered The Office or 30 Rock without iTunes as I don't watch much network TV. For shame NBC. For shame!

Plus Apple gave NBC so much free advertising by using the Office on so many demo's of the iPod and Apple TV.....BOO! BOO! I say we boycott NBC.

plumbingandtech
Aug 31, 2007, 12:19 PM
NBC should just give'em away for Free

Yes.

Where you have to watch it a browser. With ads or banners surrounding it and blinking and NOT on my iPhone.


Boneheads.

33scottie33
Aug 31, 2007, 12:20 PM
NBC says, "Ouch!", after they shoot themselves in the foot!

~Shard~
Aug 31, 2007, 12:22 PM
Ah, the greed. Some companies still don't get it, do they? Paradigms are shifting, the old ways will not work anymore.

So now as opposed to getting some money from iTMS, they'd rather have none. Well then, none is exactly what they'll get - and the torrent networks will be a little more active now with NBC content.

See ya NBC, Apple doesn't need you. :cool:

tablespork
Aug 31, 2007, 12:22 PM
Why doesn't Apple offer DiVX and XVID compatability to iTunes and the iPhone/iPod. Then your could take your DVD's and rip them into iTunes like you can with CD's and manage them just like we do with music tracks.

This would setup a similar model to when the iPod first came out and give the consumer a legitimate option to building thier online media library.

DMCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA)

Basically, because DVDs have copy protection, it is illegal (in the USA) to circumvent that copy protection. CDs had no copy protection.

bdj21ya
Aug 31, 2007, 12:24 PM
Wow, I pay for cable and a DVR service, but when that somehow fails for an episode (which inevitably happens a few times a year), I just purchased it on iTunes. Now I guess I'll have to turn to the torrents, which is something I like to avoid when possible.

It's really disappointing, because most of my favorite shows are on NBC, and iTunes was a really convenient way to catch a missed episode. Those saying you can just buy and rip the DVD don't get it. Watching TV is about being a part of American culture, relating to coworkers and such. It's only worth the $2 because you can watch it before the next episode comes on. Watching it on DVD later doesn't really do much for that experience.

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 12:24 PM
I will be downloading your shows from my favorite bit torrent search engine from now on. Thanks for the memories!

verniesgarden
Aug 31, 2007, 12:25 PM
honestly i can't see paying for anything that was originally broadcast for free.

yea they may have commercials, but that just gives you bathroom/snack breaks

mgauss
Aug 31, 2007, 12:25 PM
When I have purchased TV shows or movies I watch them once. And they clog up my hard drive. What is needed is a rental say for 5 days.

GFLPraxis
Aug 31, 2007, 12:26 PM
The especially stupid part about this is that NBC puts every episode of Heroes up on their web site for free. Granted, you have to sit through advertisements.

But you'd definitely think $2 an episode would make them a lot more money. Especially when the DVD costs less.

diamond.g
Aug 31, 2007, 12:26 PM
If NBC was 30% if iTunes TV show sales is anyone else curious to know the breakdown of the other 70%?

It seems to me that NBC makes more money from advertising than they do from downloads (which is why they let you watch it free on their site).

If the downloads were of HD quality then maybe they would be worth buying, but why buy a 640p video when I can get the 1080i version for free??

donlphi
Aug 31, 2007, 12:27 PM
Maybe NBC will offer free fully downloadable episodes with commercials that can be watched on any device that supports mp4. I can see paying for an episode or two that you might miss, but I can't see paying for something you can watch for free, or pay for something you are already paying for through another service. I will definitely be using AVCVideoCap to record from my Comcast DVR. Works like a charm.

Does anybody know of any mac software that will pull the stored files from your DVR to your computer? Better yet, the On Demand files to your computer?

Just curious.

Mitch1984
Aug 31, 2007, 12:27 PM
Universal have it in for Apple & YouTube because they are doing their own store and their own video site.

PlaceofDis
Aug 31, 2007, 12:27 PM
And just like that, Apple takes the PR high ground. Ouch.

high ground? perhaps. but i'm glad that they are doing the 'right thing'

Bit Torrent for the win.
They could have had my money, but I guess it's not good enough for them.

and this is whats going to happen. their loss.

rugged
Aug 31, 2007, 12:27 PM
Wow thats just pure greed. If anything they are gaining money from someone who pays two dollars per episode. For example season three of the office has 23 episodes. Thats about 46 dollars if you were to buy the episodes individually. Now at 5 dollars that would come out to about 115 dollars. Who would pay that when you can get the season dvd for about 32 dollars at amazon? At least one company still sticks up for its customers.

Well said. What's more is that this is nothing more than corporate chest pounding in attempt to demonstrate dominance over a company that by all wall street accounts is going to hit record marks in 2008. Granted, loyal itunes subscribers such as myself and others will initially suffer being unable to download their favorite episodes of the office and scrubs immediately. However, and as has been mentioned, there are other means of procuring said episodes, none which involve the shelling out of 40 bucks for a dvd months after the season ends. Smart move NBC!!

boom.boom.ba
Aug 31, 2007, 12:27 PM
NBC: converting paying customers into pirates. Guess their lawyers needed feeding.

33scottie33
Aug 31, 2007, 12:32 PM
When I have purchased TV shows or movies I watch them once. And they clog up my hard drive. What is needed is a rental say for 5 days.

NBC say, "OK, we are fine with that, if we can charge 99 cents a day"!

SpaceJello
Aug 31, 2007, 12:33 PM
I have a feeling NBC TV is either going to pop up on theirh own website or some other online TV downloading store..... Microsoft? Google video is dead.... Walmart?

macUser2007
Aug 31, 2007, 12:33 PM
Hm, it may have more to do with preparing some exclusive content for MS/XBOX. MS is not ready to cede this market to Apple.

droz
Aug 31, 2007, 12:33 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)


NBC's current shows will continue to be available on iTunes until December of this year. NBC accounted for 30% of iTunes TV sales.


Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/31/apple-to-stop-selling-nbc-television-shows/)

This is incorrect. Apple is discontinuing NBC's shows on iTunes before the fall season, not mid-season (as Dec would indicate). Perhaps older seasons would be available until Dec but I doubt even that will be true.

pigetstuck
Aug 31, 2007, 12:34 PM
email NBC/Universal and let them know your thoughts

http://www.nbc.com/Footer/Contact_Us/

sbarton
Aug 31, 2007, 12:36 PM
DMCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA)

Basically, because DVDs have copy protection, it is illegal (in the USA) to circumvent that copy protection. CDs had no copy protection.

Ok...but why can I go into Circuit City and buy any number of programs for Windows that will rip a DVD to a file. Has something changed in the Law recently?

corywoolf
Aug 31, 2007, 12:36 PM
Fine with me, I didn't watch any shows on NBC anyways. In fact, besides sports, I could do without the channel on my cable box. I wish I could just choose the handful of channels I actually watch and then just not pay for the rest. Discovery, History, SciFi, AMC, National Geographic, FX, HBO, Cinemax, Starz.

thestaton
Aug 31, 2007, 12:36 PM
yawn. I won't lose any sleep over this bone head move. there are many alternatives and they are all free. thanks for making this an easy choice NBC.

longofest
Aug 31, 2007, 12:37 PM
I wouldn't mind if Apple negotiated a little, but NBC's demands were staggeringly high.

While its disappointing that Apple won't have NBC's shows to offer, I wouldn't have bought them anyways for that price.

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 12:39 PM
I have a feeling NBC TV is either going to pop up on theirh own website or some other online TV downloading store..... Microsoft? Google video is dead.... Walmart?

www.hulu.com

easy4lif
Aug 31, 2007, 12:40 PM
They''ll come crawling back, and next time Apple gonna grab them by the balls and my them kneel.

longofest
Aug 31, 2007, 12:42 PM
I just realized... This means no more Battlestar Galactica!!!

(though on SciFi, it is distributed by NBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_%28re-imagining%29#DVD_and_online_downloads))

Mgkwho
Aug 31, 2007, 12:43 PM
No more The Office!! Darn...iTunes was the only way I had time to watch it.

Well, it's really sad when companies are motivated by greed. Sure, Apple's profit margins are the highest in their industry, but for NBC to demand $4.99/episode? No one will pay that; buying a season pass already costs more than a DVD doesn't it?

-=|Mgkwho

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 12:43 PM
Some stations stream their tv shows online free of charge. NBC thinks people would be willing to pay 5 bucks per episode?! Ha!

sigh, i think "some stations" are actually started by "NBC"

and people, NBC isn't stupid, we can bet their own online store will NOT charge users higher price than ITMS for same products.

LimeiBook86
Aug 31, 2007, 12:44 PM
That's crazy! $4.99 for a TV show? :eek: Apple had to warm everyone up to stop getting them "other ways" and pay $1.99 for a TV show.

Great job NBC, I don't think anybody is going to be paying you anymore for your shows. You can only blame yourself. :rolleyes:

MacAerfen
Aug 31, 2007, 12:45 PM
Can't help but play the conspiracy theory fan, but part of me says this is all a ploy to get people to snap up the content that is currently available. You know. Get people running out to grab those shows now before they disapear off iTunes. Then at the 11 hour deadline come out with an announcement that NBC has agreed to the current pricing and things will continue.

Not that I really suspect that this is the case, just fun to think of alternate possibilities.

Porco
Aug 31, 2007, 12:45 PM
NBC should move to the UK, Apple seem to have no problem charging close to what they want for TV shows here... :rolleyes:

rxse7en
Aug 31, 2007, 12:45 PM
First episode is available as a free download on Xbox Live. Now we know who's gonna have NBC shows.

alexprice
Aug 31, 2007, 12:46 PM
Here in the UK, the TV shows are 1.89 each. Thats a about $3.60 each. You normally buy them for 1.99?!?!

Thats much cheaper than here. :mad:

kenshin27
Aug 31, 2007, 12:47 PM
This is where the shows will be going:

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/29/clown-co-gets-website-and-new-name-hulu/

RoDe
Aug 31, 2007, 12:47 PM
:mad:This makes me really angry and I live in Holland, we can't even download movies or series yet.

These people just don't get and they never will, I for one am glad Apple stood their ground and said no.

nemaslov
Aug 31, 2007, 12:48 PM
Go to this link: http://www.nbc.com/Footer/Contact_Us/

Write NBC and tell them not be be greedy like the record biz.. Do it today!!!! Be creative, tell them how much you buy legally and that they will only push their paying customers to download free somewhere.

nagromme
Aug 31, 2007, 12:49 PM
I just realized... This means no more Battlestar Galactica!!!

(though on SciFi, it is distributed by NBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_%28re-imagining%29#DVD_and_online_downloads))

:mad: Galactica is the best show on TV, now entering its final season, and I bought it on iTunes JUST to avoid the huge spoilers I'd overhear if I waited for DVD. Doubling the price would have been a deal-breaker (so I'm glad Apple stayed firm), but dumping iTunes entirely leaves me in the same boat: no more Galactica. :mad:

EyeTV (http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetvhybridna) and antenna. At 0 per episode, amortizes pretty quickly. And it's HD, not near-DVD.

Yep--that's my answer! But no good for Galactica since I have no cable TV and don't plan to change that.

(I can't remember--are Universal movies on iTunes?)

Edmar
Aug 31, 2007, 12:50 PM
i guess ill be recording the office on my eye tv dvr, which is not that hard to do. There is nothing else i want from NBC. I now see why theor ratings have been plummeting for the last few years. Netflix will work for me as well once dvd's are released.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 12:52 PM
i guess ill be recording the office on my eye tv dvr, which is not that hard to do. There is nothing else i want from NBC. I now see why theor ratings have been plummeting for the last few years. Netflix will work for me as well once dvd's are released.

see, we all have more choices, once you think outside the ITMS, neflix, and tv recording are all cheaper than ITMS. do it now!:)

nemaslov
Aug 31, 2007, 12:52 PM
I watch on Demand HD films and TV regularly via Comcast. Sometimes I watch CBS's CSI. It is FREE on HD On demand and there is a one minute commercial. Maybe two at the most. So the CBS shows are free.

The NBC shows on demand HD are .99. I can afford it but I NEVER watch them. What a crock. They could add their one or two adverts and keep it free.

nagromme
Aug 31, 2007, 12:54 PM
Go to this link: http://www.nbc.com/Footer/Contact_Us/

Write NBC and tell them not be be greedy like the record biz.. Do it today!!!! Be creative, tell them how much you buy legally and that they will only push their paying customers to download free somewhere.

And to write to the Sci Fi channel about Battlstar Galactica et al, use feedback@ here:
http://www.scifi.com/help/feedback/

Remember, sounding intelligent will make an impression. Insults and threats will not. Explain that you WOULD spend money on their shows via iTunes, and that you won't by other means.

flopticalcube
Aug 31, 2007, 12:54 PM
see, we all have more choices, once you think outside the ITMS, neflix, and tv recording are all cheaper than ITMS. do it now!:)

iTMS is instant gratification. Its worth the price to most people. NBC wants to offer a competing service and only time will tell if they are successful.

nateco
Aug 31, 2007, 12:54 PM
I, for one, am extremely happy NBC has switched to Bit Torrent for their distribution.



Sure, not a great user experience or a nice UI, but much, much cheaper.


thanks NBC.

Fastshutter
Aug 31, 2007, 12:55 PM
$5 for a 20-25 minute show? $5 for a low quality DRM restricted show. How is that even remotely possible? In context to other media, $5 for 20 minutes of entertainment is absurd. A two HOUR movie costs $9.00 here in Nebraska at the theater. If NBC's pricing was used for a movie, it would cost $30 for one ticket.

TV shows on DVD don't cost more than $30-$40--and that is for all 20+ episodes in a season. That cost is around $.50-.75 per episode, included on a disk, in a DVD case. That is full quality DVD. And NBC wants $5 per episode for a download.

I'm having a hard time believing this is true.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 12:55 PM
iTMS is instant gratification. Its worth the price to most people. NBC wants to offer a competing service and only time will tell if they are successful.

agree. we shall see.
$5 for a 20-25 minute show? $5 for a low quality DRM restricted show. How is that even remotely possible? In context to other media, $5 for 20 minutes of entertainment is absurd. A two HOUR movie costs $9.00 here in Nebraska at the theater. If NBC's pricing was used for a movie, it would cost $30 for one ticket.

TV shows on DVD don't cost more than $30-$40--and that is for all 20+ episodes in a season. That cost is around $.50-.75 per episode, included on a disk, in a DVD case. That is full quality DVD. And NBC wants $5 per episode for a download.

I'm having a hard time believing this is true.
yes, because it IS NOT true

apple tried to paint NBC as greedy so they say end users' price will be $4.99. of course, apple didn't bother to say that NBC might just want a bigger revenue sharing, rather than charging end-users more. i.e. NBC want more money from apple, not end users, while apple would just transfer this to end-users, now, who is greedy? can you really tell?

ebouwman
Aug 31, 2007, 12:58 PM
Wow thats just pure greed. If anything they are gaining money from someone who pays two dollars per episode. For example season three of the office has 23 episodes. Thats about 46 dollars if you were to buy the episodes individually. Now at 5 dollars that would come out to about 115 dollars. Who would pay that when you can get the season dvd for about 32 dollars at amazon? At least one company still sticks up for its customers.

Just because you raise the price doesn't mean that they make more money, since they just over doubled their price they still need about half the sales they did before to be making the same amount of money, so if they lost more than half of their sales then they'd be loosing money.

real duke
Aug 31, 2007, 12:59 PM
greed is evil. why don't they just make all their shows "Pay Per View". That way, $4.99 download would be a bargain...
:apple:

shawnce
Aug 31, 2007, 01:00 PM
apple tried to paint NBC as greedy so they say end users' price will be $4.99. of course, apple didn't bother to say that NBC might just want a bigger revenue sharing, rather than charging end-users more. i.e. NBC want more money from apple, not end users, while apple would just transfer this to end-users, now, who is greedy? can you really tell?

NBC wants to double the whole sale price... Apple should eat that cost all by themselves?

metanoia
Aug 31, 2007, 01:00 PM
Big loss. =P All the good shows (other than The Office) are on other networks...

nagromme
Aug 31, 2007, 01:01 PM
apple tried to paint NBC as greedy so they say end users' price will be $4.99. of course, apple didn't bother to say that NBC might just want a bigger revenue sharing, rather than charging end-users more. i.e. NBC want more money from apple, not end users, while apple would just transfer this to end-users, now, who is greedy? can you really tell?

Well, we can certainly guess--if Apple isn't lying that iTMS profits are slim. And misleading the public about financial details like that would have legal consequences.

I'm sure there IS posturing going on here (wouldn't double be $3.98?) but I doubt that Apple could have accommodated NBC's doubling without raising the price charged to me. EDIT: I just re-read: "more than double." That's where the 4.99 comes from, I see.

Apple has little incentive to gouge consumers for content: they are selling a whole system, and content is not the profitable segment. iPods and Macs are. NBC, on the other hand, has every incentive to gouge consumers. Although they may be deluding themselves about people's willingness to BE gouged.

yoman
Aug 31, 2007, 01:01 PM
I just realized... This means no more Battlestar Galactica!!!

(though on SciFi, it is distributed by NBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_%28re-imagining%29#DVD_and_online_downloads))

Crap. Its the last season too..

sosumi1981
Aug 31, 2007, 01:02 PM
see, we all have more choices, once you think outside the ITMS, neflix, and tv recording are all cheaper than ITMS. do it now!:)

Not really. You generally have to pay upwards of $50/mo for cable, and $14.99/ mo or so for netflix. With ITMS, if you're downloading say 1 show a week, thats only about $8/mo or so. the only way your scenario is true, is if either your buying huge amounts off of ITMS or, your recording off of Rabit ears, but then your really only getting network tv. Besides which, you already had those choices before hand anyway. Now you actually have less choices.

stompy
Aug 31, 2007, 01:03 PM
I doubt they thought that Apple would go for the price hike. More likely they stuck to the absurd price just to scuttle the deal. They, like many other media companies, imagine that they (or one of their partners.. *cough* MS *cough*) can do a better job of selling digital content online. Time will tell, but so far the only significant competition to the iTunes Store is P2P.

Have to agree with you on this. NBC's version of the Universal "Test."

nagromme
Aug 31, 2007, 01:03 PM
Big loss. =P All the good shows (other than The Office) are on other networks...

Some owned by NBC. Like the Sci Fi Channel :(

paja
Aug 31, 2007, 01:06 PM
agree. we shall see.

yes, because it IS NOT true

apple tried to paint NBC as greedy so they say end users' price will be $4.99. of course, apple didn't bother to say that NBC might just want a bigger revenue sharing, rather than charging end-users more. i.e. NBC want more money from apple, not end users, while apple would just transfer this to end-users, now, who is greedy? can you really tell?


You're kidding right? NBC not greedy here? You are very funny indeed.

plumbingandtech
Aug 31, 2007, 01:08 PM
apple tried to paint NBC as greedy so they say end users' price will be $4.99.


$1.99 to $4.99 is NBC GREED. They should be painted as such.


of course, apple didn't bother to say that NBC might just want a bigger revenue sharing, rather than charging end-users more. i.e.

They did. $4.99 bigger revenue cut.


NBC want more money from apple, not end users, while apple would just transfer this to end-users, now, who is greedy? can you really tell?

And guess who buys the shows?

END USERS....

Good grief.

sosumi1981
Aug 31, 2007, 01:12 PM
$1.99 to $4.99 is NBC GREED. They should be painted as such.




They did. $4.99 bigger revenue cut.




And guess who buys the shows?

END USERS....

Good grief.

Thank You!!! You should have thrown a 'Yo Mamma" in there just for posterity! :)

DOUGHNUT
Aug 31, 2007, 01:16 PM
this makes me think that Universal is the greediest media conglomerate out there. Remember how it started with Universal complaining about the 99 cent per song price model of iTunes music store?

next, Universal decided that they're too good for iTunes and decided to not sell the DRM-free songs to iTunes.

now...Universal decides to double the pricing of TV shows effectively ending negotiations. All from the same company? It makes me want to download TV/movies/music from Universal at alternative sources.

AdMan2007
Aug 31, 2007, 01:19 PM
This is going to be a huge slap in the face to all the Apple TV folks. I think it's all a bluff move, and that NBC will be back on board, especially when the new iPod Touch comes out...watch.

dsnort
Aug 31, 2007, 01:21 PM
Meh.

There isn't much on TV I can't live without.

Other than sports, maybe NCIS and or Scrubs.

I've bought a few episodes of each that I missed on broadcast this past year, only because they were available and inexpensive.

$4.99 per episode? Sorry, the shows aren't that good.

bdkennedy1
Aug 31, 2007, 01:23 PM
NBC is ****** insane. I don't see how they can justify double the price for a season of shows over the DVD box set.

And considering their line-up has sucked for the past 3 years, they have a lot of nerve. I stopped watching NBC when Will & Grace was done.

dantehicks42
Aug 31, 2007, 01:24 PM
We know Apple takes a cut of the shows they sell. I don't know what percentage, but lets assume it's a 50/50 split.

I'll round things up to make it easy.

NBC gets 1$
Apple get 1$

According to the press release, NBC wants double the wholesale price.

NBC 2$ + Apple 1$ = 3$

Even if NBC took all the money (which they don't) to most you could pay if you double it is 4$.

I'm against the tactics used by Universal (NBC) because they feel Apple is gaining too much popularity, however I would be very dumb if I thought Apple is not trying to take advantage on the situation.

In the end they are both "greedy" companies. IPhone ringtone service anyone ? Wireless N dirvers update for 1.99$

The outcome of all this, Apple loses profit and content (their most valuable asset) and NBC loses sales and a broad reach to the consumer. Everyone loses. Apple is clearly not happy with the loss of NBC Content, else they would've never done a press release. They want to make sure the public is with them. The only way is to make the guy the bad guy.

I'll miss my shows, I guess I'll have to get cable or wait for DVD's or stop watching tv altogether !

anyway ,taht was my 2 cents.

currentinterest
Aug 31, 2007, 01:24 PM
Well, considering that MS is the other half of MSNBC...

Microsoft sold their interest in MSNBC, they are no longer a partner.

One can use Handbrake to rip DVD's to iTunes and it works quite well. VideoHub also converts DivX etc. to iTunes (iPod & aTV) formats. $4.99 for a TV program is a non-starter, good luck to anyone who tries it.

BKF
Aug 31, 2007, 01:24 PM
Sure are a lot of split infinitives in that press release.

queshy
Aug 31, 2007, 01:25 PM
$4.99 is ridiculous. theyre already making so much money...

webandflow
Aug 31, 2007, 01:25 PM
NBC - UNIVERSAL

weren't they just in the news here about a similar "We want more money!!!!" money-grab attempt???

theBB
Aug 31, 2007, 01:28 PM
This is going to be a huge slap in the face to all the Apple TV folks.
Well, yes and no. $2 per episode is already making it a luxury of not waiting until DVD comes out. I buy occasionally, but at $4 or $5 I would not buy at all anyways, so it does not matter.

phanboyjohn
Aug 31, 2007, 01:28 PM
Universal (and NBC, by extension) seem like one of the more draconian companies. They refuse to adapt to new technologies (including the Internet, for Pete's sake), and their CEO has stated how much he distrusts university students and thinks everyone is a pirate. I wish I could find the quote somewhere--it's sheer hatred of consumers is almost delicious, it's so bad.

I'd be all for this move (I agree with "Good riddance), but at the same time, I'd rather see the iTunes Store succeed than a lesser competitor. Competition is well and good, but I'm not sure of a competitor right now that I'd go with. Do any of you use non-iTunes solutions that are really nice?

gadgetmacfreak
Aug 31, 2007, 01:28 PM
If some of the other nets follow, maybe Apple will finally add DVR capability to AppleTV.

mr_matalino
Aug 31, 2007, 01:28 PM
In a way I'd like to see Apple sell $4.99 TV shows from NBC...just to have no one buy them :p

And wasn't it the CEO of UMG that accused iPod owners as theives? Now I guess it will be everyone that owns a TV. Bit torrents here I come!

donlphi
Aug 31, 2007, 01:29 PM
You could go see a matinee movie for 2 more dollars (probably less in some places).

I do think this is all a little overly dramatic. It is probably a setup situation where Apple says, "Sorry, we can't go all the way up to $4.99 that's preposterous!"

NBC says, "Fine we're pulling our stuff off the shelves."

Everybody says," Screw them, I don't need NBC"

NBC says, "How about we lower it down to $3.99"

Apple needs to get the last word in the deal, "$2.99 per episode"

Everybody says, "Well... that was a lot better than $4.99 an episode" totally overlooking the fact that they just jacked the price up a dollar.

Watch as this all unfolds.

droz
Aug 31, 2007, 01:30 PM
Best Quote I've seen yet (flat out loud funny)

"As one might expect, much of the analysis among the Apple commentators was harshly critical of NBC. "Bottom line? Apple's looking good here, championing users," wrote Michael Gartenberg, a tech analyst Jupiter Research. "Sometimes I think God put video content guys on the planet to make the music guys look progressive and visionary."

:D

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 01:31 PM
I guess in some people's mind, there is no "the other side", apple say "they want double what you pay", you take it, apple say "they are greedy", you take it.

I guess before I can get some numbers, I won't repeat same old theory.

You can just sit tight and watch how much NBC will charge for their shows through other online market. and My guess is they won't charge you $4.99/episode!

dsnort
Aug 31, 2007, 01:33 PM
Best Quote I've seen yet (flat out loud funny)

"As one might expect, much of the analysis among the Apple commentators was harshly critical of NBC. "Bottom line? Apple's looking good here, championing users," wrote Michael Gartenberg, a tech analyst Jupiter Research. "Sometimes I think God put video content guys on the planet to make the music guys look progressive and visionary."

:D

:D That's hilarious!!!!

balamw
Aug 31, 2007, 01:36 PM
My guess is they won't charge you $4.99/episode!

No, but they'll do what they've been doing to the cable companies forever. Bundling. You can only have your latest episode of "Battlestar Galactica" as part of a package that also include the latest "Dateline" and "ER". We'll throw in a bonus episode of "30 Rock", and charge you $4.99 for the deal. Isn't that sweet of us.

IMHO it's more likely we'll see some kind of subscription model.

B

Trekkie
Aug 31, 2007, 01:37 PM
I wrote NBC a nice letter on their website, listing all the shows I've purchased/watched that are under their banner of NBC, Sci-Fi, and USA Networks.

And then told them if they leave the store, their network will no longer show on my television.

Fox got the same treatment after firefly. I couldn't even tell you my local affiliate's name because I've never watched it because we moved here after firefly.

Guess I'll turn off NBC, USA and Sci-Fi as well. I don't care how much I enjoy BSG, if Universal wants to play the game, I'm not going to play and go find somewhere else.

Mydel
Aug 31, 2007, 01:37 PM
Downloading Transmission now. Thy dont want my money?? So be it!

bommai
Aug 31, 2007, 01:38 PM
Why doesn't Apple offer DiVX and XVID compatability to iTunes and the iPhone/iPod. Then your could take your DVD's and rip them into iTunes like you can with CD's and manage them just like we do with music tracks.

This would setup a similar model to when the iPod first came out and give the consumer a legitimate option to building thier online media library.

Every music track I've purchased over the last 4 years or so has been through the iTunes muisc store. Prior to that, I accumulated them from...*cough*...other places, including ripping CD's.

I think having that equalizer servered a great service to the consumer AND the companies selling videos.

Make it Legitimate, Make it Fair, and Make it Convienant.

Just use Handbrake to convert your DVDs to MPEG4-AVC (H.264) files - then you can play them on your iPod as well as your iPhone and AppleTV. Handbrake has presets for these. Don't continue to support Xvid and Divx. They are going to just dilute the codec scene. AVC is proven and well supported. PS3 works with it too.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 01:39 PM
No, but they'll do what they've been doing to the cable companies forever. Bundling. You can only have your latest episode of "Battlestar Galactica" as part of a package that also include the latest "Dateline" and "ER". We'll throw in a bonus episode of "30 Rock", and charge you $4.99 for the deal. Isn't that sweet of us.

B

altho you are very sure of the "bundle", I doubt it. we shall see. as the first public broadcasting company to offer free online full episode stream, I don't feel like they are that 1990s.

Dalien
Aug 31, 2007, 01:39 PM
So 4.99$ with a average of 23 episode a season.. that come out to $114.77???
hmm for that price I rather wait for the season to be released on DVD. and at 1.99$ x 23 ep... 45.77$ this still hurts but better then 114.77$

tutubibi
Aug 31, 2007, 01:39 PM
Seems everybody is jumping to defend Apple here against that greedy NBC :D.

Well, all NBC wanted is to gain more control over price than Apple. After all, it's NBC's content and Apple is just a broker. I am not saying this will be a smart decision for NBC but I think they should have a right to set the price to what they want. If there are enough suckers to pay for it, good for NBC. If not, then they either reduce the price or find some other way to repackage same content over and over again.

P.S.
As for me, I would not buy it even for $ 0.01 as long as it's DRMed in any way.

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 01:42 PM
I guess in some people's mind, there is no "the other side", apple say "they want double what you pay", you take it, apple say "they are greedy", you take it.

I guess before I can get some numbers, I won't repeat same old theory.

You can just sit tight and watch how much NBC will charge for their shows through other online market. and My guess is they won't charge you $4.99/episode!

The $4.99 seems a little high, even for NBC and I think it would be partly due to Apple wanting to retain the same margin (which is a very reasonable thing to expect). But Apple cannot lie to the stock market, which is essentially what you are saying they have just done.

Also dont discount the fact that the likes of NBC arent comfortable with the amount of power Apple have in terms of legal downloads for video if they echoed their success in music. It would not surprise me at all if they ask Apple for a higher wholesale price, purely as a power move.

seashellz
Aug 31, 2007, 01:42 PM
If I cant buy it legally then-well, Ill have to see what I can Digg up

/dev/toaster
Aug 31, 2007, 01:43 PM
Just another case of very greedy TV execs that end up with nothing in the end. I really hate those people, nothing but greedy scum.

balamw
Aug 31, 2007, 01:44 PM
altho you are very sure of the "bundle", I doubt it. we shall see. as the first public broadcasting company to offer free online full episode stream, I don't feel like they are that 1990s.

Sure? no. But it is how they do business with the cable cos and was mentioned in the previous story.

http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/31/nbc-to-end-itunes-sales/
NBC had reportedly been seeking better piracy controls and the ability to bundle videos.

As I said, my guess is that they go to a subscription model with heavy DRM. Maybe online streaming only.

B

drater
Aug 31, 2007, 01:44 PM
Downloading Transmission now. Thy dont want my money?? So be it!

amen to that!


4.99?? are they out of their minds...so a 12 episode season would cost almost 60 dollars????? that is crazy. I think one person said it best, MONEY-HUNGRY!

What a bad move on their part.

Analog Kid
Aug 31, 2007, 01:45 PM
The networks make money from advertising, generally. Maybe they don''t know how to act when they are actually selling episodes for a fee to the consumer. However, they have done this before with complete season DVDs. $5/episode would make a complete season very costly!
Anybody know how much a network makes per viewer on ad revenue? Even the $2 price seemed high to me, but I just don't know. DVD is one measure, but it's also after the season has aired, while iTMS is concurrent.
Apple supports both formats.
Apple doesn't support either format. There may have been keynotes and press releases giving lip service to both, but I still can't watch BlueRay or HD-DVD on my Mac.
i.e. NBC want more money from apple, not end users, while apple would just transfer this to end-users, now, who is greedy? can you really tell?
Yeah, I can tell. NBC. Whatever arrangement Apple has with NBC, it's good enough for everybody else and has been good enough for NBC themselves until now.

You certainly can't be suggesting that Apple resell NBC products at a loss...

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 01:46 PM
The $4.99 seems a little high, even for NBC and I think it would be partly due to Apple wanting to retain the same margin (which is a very reasonable thing to expect). But Apple cannot lie to the stock market, which is essentially what you are saying they have just done.

Also dont discount the fact that the likes of NBC arent comfortable with the amount of power Apple have in terms of legal downloads for video if they echoed their success in music. It would not surprise me at all if they ask Apple for a higher wholesale price, purely as a power move.

apple always cuts into partner's profit in BIG numbers, I don't see why apple can't give more profit to their partners. remember why Verizon backed off from iPhone?

as for $4.99, I stand by my words, if all these fuss are really about "end-users", lets wait and see how much NBC charge.

~Shard~
Aug 31, 2007, 01:47 PM
So 4.99$ with a average of 23 episode a season.. that come out to $114.77???
hmm for that price I rather wait for the season to be released on DVD. and at 1.99$ x 23 ep... 45.77$ this still hurts but better then 114.77$

Yeah, and don't forget about the difference in quality as well as the extras you get buy purchasing the DVD. For that ridiculous price differential I'd have no problems waiting for the DVD release.

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 01:47 PM
Seems everybody is jumping to defend Apple here against that greedy NBC :D.

Well, all NBC wanted is to gain more control over price than Apple. After all, it's NBC's content and Apple is just a broker. I am not saying this will be a smart decision for NBC but I think they should have a right to set the price to what they want. If there are enough suckers to pay for it, good for NBC. If not, then they either reduce the price or find some other way to repackage same content over and over again.

P.S.
As for me, I would not buy it even for $ 0.01 as long as it's DRMed in any way.

Apple is letting them set the price they want - so long as it is not over $1.99 an episode. lol

Personally, I feel NBC are acting a bit strange. Its easy money. They do not have to worry about CPMs, fulfilled inventory, an active sales force and whatnot as they do with the free/advertised model. If they can put out DVDs and High Def DVDs with extras, packaging, distribution etc, I dont see how they can go wrong with the download model at $1.99. Their margins using iTunes must be huge.

stompy
Aug 31, 2007, 01:48 PM
I guess in some people's mind, there is no "the other side", apple say "they want double what you pay", you take it, apple say "they are greedy", you take it.

I guess before I can get some numbers, I won't repeat same old theory.

You can just sit tight and watch how much NBC will charge for their shows through other online market. and My guess is they won't charge you $4.99/episode!

I'm guessing they'll charge more than they receive from Apple per iTMS episode.

morespce54
Aug 31, 2007, 01:49 PM
apple tried to paint NBC as greedy so they say end users' price will be $4.99. of course, apple didn't bother to say that NBC might just want a bigger revenue sharing, rather than charging end-users more. i.e. NBC want more money from apple, not end users, while apple would just transfer this to end-users, now, who is greedy? can you really tell?

NBC wants to double the whole sale price... Apple should eat that cost all by themselves?




right. as sad as it is, these days nobody would expect a "retail channel" to eat the raise of the producer.

that would be nice if I could go in a supermarket and notice that the price of milk was raised but then, the manager would tell me that I shouldn't bother because he kept the milk at the old price and decided to make less money from it just to keep the customers satisfied...

Oh boy, those were the good ol' days... ;)

granted that everybody is (kind of) greedy but when it starts at the top of the pyramid...

bluedevil14
Aug 31, 2007, 01:49 PM
ahhhhhh nooooo
that means no more scrubs!

ricosuave
Aug 31, 2007, 01:50 PM
The networks are desperate in this ad-free age of Tivo and iTunes downloads. They're going to have to figure out a new way to get advertisers, because charging $5 for a 22-minute episode isn't going to fly.

What they should do is go after product placement, and then give the episodes away for free and embrace file sharing. They'll make the same amount of money, if not more, because they can charge advertisers more, since more people will be seeing products in the shows if they get it for free.

Good idea. Seinfeld was a master at this. Remember entire shows were about products? Twix at the auto shop, chocolate dibs in the operating room, pez at the piano recital. Those guys new how to write a show. And I can only imagine the kind of coin that generated Jerry Seinfeld, Larry David and the network.

CommodityFetish
Aug 31, 2007, 01:51 PM
The timing is surely not coincidental, as NBC is putting a damper on Apple's video iPod release next week...

In the long run it will be interesting to see how this power struggle goes between content distributors (apple) and producers (NBC/Universal).

NBC is betting that content will trump distribution channels, that people will go to their store (MS?) for their content. The only thing stopping them now is Apple's DRM lock-in on the iPod. They could beat this by providing DRM free episodes with ads embedded - so you can watch them on the iPod. That's the only way I see this making sense for NBC. (though they still have the piracy problem...)

As to "greed," corporations aren't people/citizens (despite US legal code giving them rights as if they were), so I don't think it makes much sense to call them greedy. It's business, and they're fighting (a losing battle) to stay as big and lucrative as they can. You can bet they have a plan B up their sleeve - as described above.

Whether the risk works for them or not remains to be seen...

;)

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 01:52 PM
I'm guessing they'll charge more than they receive from Apple per iTMS episode.

sure, they got 30c /episode from apple...

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 01:53 PM
apple always cuts into partner's profit in BIG numbers, I don't see why apple can't give more profit to their partners. remember why Verizon backed off from iPhone?

as for $4.99, I stand by my words, if all these fuss are really about "end-users", lets wait and see how much NBC charge.

Apple are quite happy to keep the price at $1.99, as evidenced by all of the other studios who are selling episodes on the iTS.

And again, you can not compare iTunes to what NBC charges elsewhere. The parent company clearly has an issue with iTunes being the dominant player. It doesn't want the situation the music companies have landed themselves in whereby a significant % of their profits come from iTunes sales and thus they have little power in dictating prices.

This is a power move, plain and simple. I do not think they expected it to get to the point where Apple would pull out though.

nagromme
Aug 31, 2007, 01:54 PM
We know Apple takes a cut of the shows they sell. I don't know what percentage, but lets assume it's a 50/50 split.

...

According to the press release, NBC wants double the wholesale price.

It's not a 50/50 split. Content owners make the biggest chunk of iTunes profit, while Apple and the credit card companies make a very small slice. Out of Apple's slice comes all the operating expenses: servers, rent, insurance, electricity, massive bandwidth, software development and maintenance, marketing/advertising, 24/7 technical staff, customer service, etc. etc.

Apple does make a LITTLE money on iTMS, but they've been clear that it's a small percentage. Not half.

And it's not "double" that NBC is asking. The MacRumors story is missing half of the actual quote: "more than double."

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/08/31itunes.html


Well, all NBC wanted is to gain more control over price than Apple. After all, it's NBC's content and Apple is just a broker. I am not saying this will be a smart decision for NBC but I think they should have a right to set the price to what they want. If there are enough suckers to pay for it, good for NBC. If not, then they either reduce the price or find some other way to repackage same content over and over again.

I agree that NBC is in their rights to try to charge whatever they want. And we do NOT have the right to pirate the content (and bypass the advertisers) if we don't like it. We only have the right not to watch.

Now, I also think more-than-doubling the price is unreasonable, and so I'm glad to see Apple taking a hard line. Apple's concern for consumer experience is largely just profit motive, like any company, but it happens to put them on my side this time :)


This is a power move, plain and simple. I do not think they expected it to get to the point where Apple would pull out though.

Agreed. Very likely NBC just wanted a way to back out and try to beat Apple/iTunes with some new venture. But they wanted to do it in a way that made them look good and generated good publicity. Somehow they thought that more-than-doubling the price would make for good PR :confused: :p

ZeeG
Aug 31, 2007, 01:54 PM
What if Apple makes an announcement that they will release 720p (or even higher) videos for every studio except NBC at the coming media event?
At least for me, I will give up waiting for the end of HD format war between blu-ray and hd-dvd and will rush to the Apple store to get an AppleTV.
NBC will then be pissed off. Just my thought.

skellener
Aug 31, 2007, 01:55 PM
Why doesn't Apple offer DiVX and XVID compatability to iTunes and the iPhone/iPod. Then your could take your DVD's and rip them into iTunes like you can with CD's and manage them just like we do with music tracks.
You don't need DiVX or XVID for that. MP4 & H264 work right now.

skellener
Aug 31, 2007, 01:56 PM
At least for me, I will give up waiting for the end of HD format war between blu-ray and hd-dvd and will rush to the Apple store to get an AppleTV.
I think everybody has been waiting for this since January. Somebody is dragging their heels. Apple? Studios? No HD on iTunes = death for AppleTV.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 01:56 PM
And again, you can not compare iTunes to what NBC charges elsewhere.

I understand logically I can't, but

if all those people who accused NBC being "greedy", are really thinking "for end-users" as they claim.

then
I sure can compare, because thats what end-users get. from whichever market. don't you think so?

PS, I agree your analysis of power struggle tho, just feel that $4.99 is an absurd new ads from apple.

danoindigo
Aug 31, 2007, 02:00 PM
If you love NBC shows as much as I do (such as "The Office"), CALL THEM AND LET THEM KNOW ABOUT IT. 818.777.1000 DO IT TODAY. DON'T GIVE UP. IF WE ALL LET THEM KNOW HOW WE FEEL, THEY MAY CHANGE THERE MINDS!

CALL TODAY! 818.777.1000

Analog Kid
Aug 31, 2007, 02:02 PM
As I said, my guess is that they go to a subscription model with heavy DRM. Maybe online streaming only.

B
And Windows only...

Someone mentioned the MSNBC link above, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is Redmond flexing some muscle. Unlike Universal's move, for which there is no real alternative, the XBox does give an alternative, existing, marketplace for NBC. They may not make more money from XBox sales then they get from iTMS, but they may be in a position where they have to choose between Apple and MS. Given how much NBC has invested with Microsoft already, I think we know where their allegiances are.

I have to think MS is a little worried about the early signs of the Mac's rising market share, and it's pretty clear that a lot of that rise is due to Apple's moves into media. They're probably arm twisting their friends.

stompy
Aug 31, 2007, 02:02 PM
sure, they got 30c /episode from apple...

Link? (Seriously, I haven't seen what content providers got/get.)

My point was simply that Universal wants more total/per episode revenue, and they think they'll accomplish this with or without Apple's help.

maokh
Aug 31, 2007, 02:04 PM
Its NBC's loss. I cancelled my satellite TV service months ago in favor of AppleTV/iTunes content. With NBC out of the picture, I guess i will be purchasing more content from their competitors.

Eyeballs do not make $4.99/epsiode. If they did, the networks would not be dying a slow death as they are now. $1.99/episode or $30-$50 a season is enough of of a premium as it is.

This type of attitude also drives consumers to piracy. 40% of iTunes purchases has to be a considerable chunk of change. If its not a complete bluff, it is a considerable risky move, as less and less are actually sitting in front of television sets at specific times to watch television programming. I bet NBC thinks that the revenue will magically shift over to another medium, but I do not see how alienating customers in such a fragile entertainment industry is going to be productive.

supremedesigner
Aug 31, 2007, 02:06 PM
Frankly, I think this is B.S. - It's pissin' me off when this thing happened. What a crock greedy companies (NBC, Universal, etc.) they are. :mad:

sbarton
Aug 31, 2007, 02:08 PM
Seems everybody is jumping to defend Apple here against that greedy NBC :D.

Well, all NBC wanted is to gain more control over price than Apple. After all, it's NBC's content and Apple is just a broker. I am not saying this will be a smart decision for NBC but I think they should have a right to set the price to what they want.


They do have the right to set their price just as Apple has a right not to buy it. Music and Video are (or should) be no different than tennis balls and toliet paper. All retailers (Apple in this case) have the right to say yea or ney based on thier business model and customer interests. Go ask Walmart what they think about this topic.

NBC and Universal seem to think they can set up a better value proposition (for themselves) by taking a different path. Good for them, however when I can get very good service and the same product for much cheaper at store A, I will unlikely be shopping at store B.

So either NBC/Universal can improve the quality of thier shows and product offering SO much that people will beat a path to thier door or they will have to lower the price of their product to be competitive to iTunes (like thats going to happen).

Time will tell. At the momemnt however Apple has the upper hand in any scenario I can think of.

Analog Kid
Aug 31, 2007, 02:08 PM
apple always cuts into partner's profit in BIG numbers, I don't see why apple can't give more profit to their partners.
If by "BIG" numbers you mean pennies... Apple can give more profit up to the point where they take a loss. As has been repeated over and over again in their financial results, there really isn't anything more to give.

mashny
Aug 31, 2007, 02:08 PM
DMCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA)

Basically, because DVDs have copy protection, it is illegal (in the USA) to circumvent that copy protection. CDs had no copy protection.

Regarding NBCs decision to pull from iTunes because of greed, and regarding DVD copy protection, three simple words: Mac The Ripper.

Small White Car
Aug 31, 2007, 02:09 PM
Why doesn't Apple offer DiVX and XVID compatability to iTunes and the iPhone/iPod. Then your could take your DVD's and rip them into iTunes like you can with CD's and manage them just like we do with music tracks.

:confused: Or you could, you know, rip them to a format the iPod supports.

Problem solved.

(And yes, Apple won't offer this, but there are tons of freeware programs that do it.)

supremedesigner
Aug 31, 2007, 02:09 PM
Well, I don't give a crap about NBC though - they still NEVER support subtitle / closed caption - nothing nothing nothing! No other companies will provide it. B.S.!

k2k koos
Aug 31, 2007, 02:10 PM
I like this move by Apple. By saying that 50 other cable companies have already agreed to the $1.99 per episode price, Apple is basically backing NBC into a corner and calling their bluff.

I don't see how NBC can think they are going to win on this one.

You can guess what 's going to happen, they'll either open up their own store, or going to work with others, and probably not charge $4,99 per episode / download. It is a ridicilous sum of money, and whoever in their company thought that would be a fair price, needs their brain examined, if there is one left in there. Bad for the consumers, loosing NBC on iTunes, but good on Apple to keep their prices down

Now, only one comment,as I am not a "cost what cost Apple supporter", I'd like to know from them what is with the ripp off prices charged on the UK store???????? They are substantially higher than US prices, and don't tell me is sales tax, that is bulls****

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 02:11 PM
If by "BIG" numbers you mean pennies...

obviously I meant "percentage"

psycoswimmer
Aug 31, 2007, 02:11 PM
I was planning on getting a season pass for Season 4 of The Office too. Damn NBC. Now I'm going to have to deal with getting the show "some" other way.

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 02:14 PM
I understand logically I can't, but

if all those people who accused NBC being "greedy", are really thinking "for end-users" as they claim.

then
I sure can compare, because thats what end-users get. from whichever market. don't you think so?

PS, I agree your analysis of power struggle tho, just feel that $4.99 is an absurd new ads from apple.

Apple will have their margins. And we know Apple is a firm believer in their margins. While they definitely have championed the cause of the consumer in respect to online media for years now, they are answerable to shareholders and want a healthy cashflow just like every other corporation. So I can definitely see NBC asking for a greater than double wholesale price and Apple sticking with their margins thus resulting in a $4.99 retail price.

So the spin Apple put on it is saying that NBC are asking for a $4.99 retail price when in reality Apple just are not prepared to cut their margins to accommodate an increase in the NBC wholesale price in order to maintain a more reasonable retail price. IMO you cant really blame Apple for that. When a supplier comes and wants to more than double the price it charges, then you are put in a really hard position.

I personally think the issue will be resolved but I cant see who will give up a little of their position in order for this to happen. Perhaps increased prices with 720P content is the way forward, in a similar manner to what Apple have done with iTunes Plus. The consumer gets better quality, less restrictive content for a premium, and both Apple and the supplier makes a little more money.

Neuroguy
Aug 31, 2007, 02:18 PM
As others have said, I can't agree more that this is just NBC being greedy fat little piggies.

I suppose they don't know that there are alternatives out there that some people will use to get the shows for free.

Idiots.

Neuroguy

williedigital
Aug 31, 2007, 02:20 PM
I think everybody has been waiting for this since January. Somebody is dragging their heels. Apple? Studios? No HD on iTunes = death for AppleTV.

Maybe the reason they wanted to raise the price was because it was HD content? Apple wanted to sell HD content at the same price as SD now? NBC isn't stupid. They know people won't pay $5 per episode of the current content, so there is something going on here that we don't know.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 02:21 PM
I personally think the issue will be resolved but I cant see who will give up a little of their position in order for this to happen. Perhaps increased prices with 720P content is the way forward, in a similar manner to what Apple have done with iTunes Plus. The consumer gets better quality, less restrictive content for a premium, and both Apple and the supplier makes a little more money.

my frank judgement is: apple will lose

Apple did very impressive job opening online market. But now the market is mature, and monopoly isn't working for everybody, just like computer world, everybody want some profit, not only apple. Apple is simply repeating what it did back in 1990s with macs. all over again.

end users will flock to any seller as long as they get lower price. NBC can sell TV shows for as low as they want, since they virtually pay nothing extra. Apple has no way to compete with that possibility.

$4.99 is such a lame trick, it won't fly an inch as soon as NBC store goes online.

sartinsauce
Aug 31, 2007, 02:22 PM
I watch on Demand HD films and TV regularly via Comcast. Sometimes I watch CBS's CSI. It is FREE on HD On demand and there is a one minute commercial. Maybe two at the most. So the CBS shows are free.

I'm so happy you watch that HD Comcast On Demand CSI. I make that and my co-workers and I always wonder if anyone is viewing it. Comcast doesn't give us any numbers about viewership. I don't even know if they have the techonology to track their viewership, but I'm guessing they do.

Stampyhead
Aug 31, 2007, 02:25 PM
I say we boycott NBC.

I won't have a choice. My schedule doesn't allow me to watch shows when they air, so I download all the shows I watch from iTunes. NBC removing themselves from iTunes will force me to boycott them, whether I want to or not. Darn, I was really looking forward to the next season of 'Heros' too. Oh well...

apple_iBoy
Aug 31, 2007, 02:25 PM
Good idea. Seinfeld was a master at this. Remember entire shows were about products? Twix at the auto shop, chocolate dibs in the operating room.

Oh I'm rather sure that the operating room episode referenced Junior Mints.

See! It stuck with me all that time!

And don't forget Sue Ellen Mischke, heir to the O'Henry candy bar fortune!

Ha ze
Aug 31, 2007, 02:26 PM
No doubt that if NBC doesn't change their mind it's going to be a big loss to the iTS. That said I'm really happy Apple stood their ground about the end user experience (once again). NBC on top of $4.99 also wanted to create bundles, i.e you want office? Well you need to buy scrubs too. Again, another greedy move.

This should also be a clear message to the other networks, that if they are willing to let their #1 source for programming go, that they will more then likely let anyone go if they wont agree to these terms.

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 02:26 PM
Now, only one comment,as I am not a "cost what cost Apple supporter", I'd like to know from them what is with the ripp off prices charged on the UK store???????? They are substantially higher than US prices, and don't tell me is sales tax, that is bulls****


Its down to a very strong at the moment and VAT. You can get more than $2 for the right now which is crazy and serves to work against us for this kind of stuff. I do think 1.49 would be a more realistic and reasonable price though so I agree that it is perhaps too expensive. But to compare our prices to the States based on the current exchange rate is very naive, given that fluctuations in the rate would wreak havoc on your business is you based your price solely on it. As an example, the average salary in this country is what, 22k? The average salary in the States is less than $44k. So cost of living comes into play.

anonmill
Aug 31, 2007, 02:27 PM
okay we are on page seven of this discussion and I am just curious. What of this hulu thing? Don't get me wrong, I am as disgusted by this as anyone (I own and AppleTV that I enjoy BSG, The Office, and Scrubs on it), but we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars here. Close minded as NBC/Universal maybe they would not have let themselves get into such a risky situation without some sort of confidence. Of course there are many other avenues, if sub-par, to distribute their content, and I am sure it won't be $4.99. But they recognize iTunes is great and the 800lbs gorilla in the arena. So again I ask, what would this hulu.com (if that is what it is or whatever else) have to be to make them think it is different than every other attempt topple the current environment? Hypothetically, maybe they could pull something out of the air that even Apple would have to react to because it is truely innovative (they could get luckky:) ). I guess I am just curious. Apple seems to have the upper hand right now, what could be their weakness if they get blindsided? (Again I hope they don't, I have a lot of money invested in their products/services:) )

bugabuga
Aug 31, 2007, 02:29 PM
I won't have a choice. My schedule doesn't allow me to watch shows when they air, so I download all the shows I watch from iTunes. NBC removing themselves from iTunes will force me to boycott them, whether I want to or not. Darn, I was really looking forward to the next season of 'Heros' too. Oh well...
I'm sure they'll put it on their web site, like the other shows they show for free :D

sananda
Aug 31, 2007, 02:30 PM
Oh I'm rather sure that the operating room episode referenced Junior Mints.


they can be very refreshing, you know.

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 02:30 PM
okay we are on page seven of this discussion and I am just curious. What of this hulu thing? Don't get me wrong, I am as disgusted by this as anyone (I own and AppleTV that I enjoy BSG, The Office, and Scrubs on it), but we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars here. Close minded as NBC/Universal maybe they would not have let themselves get into such a risky situation without some sort of confidence. Of course there are many other avenues, if sub-par, to distribute their content, and I am sure it won't be $4.99. But they recognize iTunes is great and the 800lbs gorilla in the arena. So again I ask, what would this hulu.com (if that is what it is or whatever else) have to be to make them think it is different than every other attempt topple the current environment? Hypothetically, maybe they could pull something out of the air that even Apple would have to react to because it is truely innovative (they could get luckky:) ). I guess I am just curious. Apple seems to have the upper hand right now, what could be their weakness if they get blindsided? (Again I hope they don't, I have a lot of money invested in their products/services:) )

Its a company set up by News Corp and NBC to primarily challenge the might of Google/YouTube. But as you can see, Apple is also falling foul of it.

The plan is to make all of their content free on the Hulu website, supported by ads.

Maccus Aurelius
Aug 31, 2007, 02:30 PM
agree. we shall see.

yes, because it IS NOT true

apple tried to paint NBC as greedy so they say end users' price will be $4.99. of course, apple didn't bother to say that NBC might just want a bigger revenue sharing, rather than charging end-users more. i.e. NBC want more money from apple, not end users, while apple would just transfer this to end-users, now, who is greedy? can you really tell?

Considering that NBC gets the bulk of the revenue generated by the downloads, I'd say that it doesn't make any difference how you slice it, they're being greedy as hell.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 02:30 PM
I guess I am just curious. Apple seems to have the upper hand right now, what could be their weakness if they get blindsided? (Again I hope they don't, I have a lot of money invested in their products/services:) )

the weakness is apple doesn't produce content, and each episode of tv dama cost ~$4m.

Considering that NBC gets the bulk of the revenue generated by the downloads
please show me the number

anonmill
Aug 31, 2007, 02:32 PM
my frank judgement is: apple will lose

Apple did very impressive job opening online market. But now the market is mature, and monopoly isn't working for everybody, just like computer world, everybody want some profit, not only apple. Apple is simply repeating what it did back in 1990s with macs. all over again.

end users will flock to any seller as long as they get lower price. NBC can sell TV shows for as low as they want, since they virtually pay nothing extra. Apple has no way to compete with that possibility.

$4.99 is such a lame trick, it won't fly an inch as soon as NBC store goes online.

I don't agree 100%, but certainly there are some strong similarities that can be drawn between the mac of the 80's - 90's and this situation.

AT71
Aug 31, 2007, 02:33 PM
4.99 per episode is madness!

Read this in NYT
NBC Universal is also seeking better piracy controls

What on earth is NBC Universal talking about? What piracy? The DRMs are so tight already with iTunes videos.

dcranston
Aug 31, 2007, 02:33 PM
We know Apple takes a cut of the shows they sell. I don't know what percentage, but lets assume it's a 50/50 split.

I'll round things up to make it easy.

NBC gets 1$
Apple get 1$

According to the press release, NBC wants double the wholesale price.

NBC 2$ + Apple 1$ = 3$

Even if NBC took all the money (which they don't) to most you could pay if you double it is 4$.

But your premise is based on Apple being able to offer NBC a "discount" over the negotiations they have with every other network. From my understanding, Apple takes a PERCENTAGE. In other words, If NBC *more than* doubles the prices (as the PR says), Apple would have to actually take a smaller percentage from NBC in order for the entire price to not more than double, which would set a precedent for all other networks to demand Apple taking a smaller percentage share.

Multimedia
Aug 31, 2007, 02:34 PM
Good riddance, I say. Money hungry little crooks.yeppers.

Who the heck would pay $4.99 per TV Show episode?

Are you kidding me?

Talk about being greedy.Greed is Good... :rolleyes:

And just like that, Apple takes the PR high ground. Ouch.Bravo Apple.

Looks like I'll be downloading "The Office" and "30 Rock" from other (free) sources.EyeTV Hybrid and Network will come out a winner in this case.

Bit Torrent for the win.
They could have had my money, but I guess it's not good enough for them.EyeTV for the win too.

I doubt they thought that Apple would go for the price hike. More likely they stuck to the absurd price just to scuttle the deal. They, like many other media companies, imagine that they (or one of their partners.. *cough* MS *cough*) can do a better job of selling digital content online. Time will tell, but so far the only significant competition to the iTunes Store is P2P.Idiots. They'll lose money with any alternative scheme.

4.99 a tv show episode? for that I would just buy the dvd or go the netflix route. what about NBCs 40% of downloads? It is upsetting to hear the 4.99 price when I have things from NBC news which were free.And still are with an EyeTV hook up to an off air antennae.

talk about shooting yourself in the foot NBC - $4.99 that is ludicrous!

Thankyou iTunes 4 not caving in to these stupid demads!

<3 :apple: <3Yes! :)

Isn't NBC owned by "evil" Universal? I can see this as some major corporate posturing here. Universal is using NBC and their DRM-free music as a test to see how much clout Apple has. If their ventures fail - then that will be a signal to them that iTunes is the only gig in town. However, their hope is that by withdrawing these "smaller" ventures (in compared to their music sector) they can start an exodus that others may follow.

I don't see this as working at all and I hope it doesn't. Universal's only reason for doing any of this is to hike prices up. Greedy ***** heads. I think they need to "bite the curb".Right On! :mad:

I agree, good for Apple to call their bluff. 30% of iTunes TV show sales cannot be an insubstantial loss for NBC. Just downright greedy!Brilliant! :cool:

I'm glad Apple is keeping a stiffy on pricing. I'm pretty sure Amazon will be Happy to Sell NBC shows or maybe NBC should just give'em away for Free ;)
-CrooksThey already do on their website.

Wow thats just pure greed. If anything they are gaining money from someone who pays two dollars per episode. For example season three of the office has 23 episodes. Thats about 46 dollars if you were to buy the episodes individually. Now at 5 dollars that would come out to about 115 dollars. Who would pay that when you can get the season dvd for about 32 dollars at amazon? At least one company still sticks up for its customers.Zactly. ;)

balamw
Aug 31, 2007, 02:34 PM
Apple did very impressive job opening online market. But now the market is mature, and monopoly isn't working for everybody, just like computer world, everybody want some profit, not only apple. Apple is simply repeating what it did back in 1990s with macs. all over again.

end users will flock to any seller as long as they get lower price.

IMHO, you miss the boat.

Apple opened the market, yes, but it is far from mature.

History shows that end users will not always flock to the lower price if the product doesn't do what they want it to do. Real/Rhapsody tried pretty hard to undercut Apple offering tracks at $0.49 for a while, and Buy.com and Walmart have both been selling DRMed tracks for $0.79/$0.88, but if they won't work with my iPod, why bother?

The nice thing about iTunes is that it is simple and for the most part uniform. I know that I can get a track on iTunes for $0.99 and a TV Show for $1.99. Not that some tracks are $1.49 and can't be transferred to my iPod. Noth that tracks are $0.79 on the first Tuesday after the full moon. etc...

I accept FairPlay DRM on audio because it doesn't restrict my from my desired uses of the media, and I always have the right to burn a CD. I accept DRM on the videos because I can still play them on my iPod/computers/:apple:TV without hassle, but if they want to shove random DRM schemes down our throats and ties us down to devices of their choosing, the only option is to obtain DRM free content that can work with our chosen devices. (Not just P2P, but things like eyeTV or TiVo to Go).

B

CalBoy
Aug 31, 2007, 02:34 PM
Isn't NBC owned by "evil" Universal? I can see this as some major corporate posturing here. Universal is using NBC and their DRM-free music as a test to see how much clout Apple has. If their ventures fail - then that will be a signal to them that iTunes is the only gig in town. However, their hope is that by withdrawing these "smaller" ventures (in compared to their music sector) they can start an exodus that others may follow.

I don't see this as working at all and I hope it doesn't. Universal's only reason for doing any of this is to hike prices up. Greedy ***** heads. I think they need to "bite the curb".

Technically, both NBC and Universal are owned by General Electric. However, I think this may have a lot to do with Microsoft. Apparently, Universal gets some money from every Zune sale, which means that they might have had some deal worked out ahead of time. Maybe Microsoft was able to get Universal and NBC's parent company, GE, to give them a good price, while promising to hike up their price to Apple. Either way, I'm saddened by this whole thing.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 02:35 PM
now I found the #
apple gets 55c/episode. (http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2006/01/24/apple-cents-and-advertising)

lets bet if NBC will sell their shows for $1.69/episode (1.59, 1.79, 1.89 are sure possible too.)

sosumi1981
Aug 31, 2007, 02:37 PM
my frank judgement is: apple will lose

Apple did very impressive job opening online market. But now the market is mature, and monopoly isn't working for everybody, just like computer world, everybody want some profit, not only apple. Apple is simply repeating what it did back in 1990s with macs. all over again.

end users will flock to any seller as long as they get lower price. NBC can sell TV shows for as low as they want, since they virtually pay nothing extra. Apple has no way to compete with that possibility.

$4.99 is such a lame trick, it won't fly an inch as soon as NBC store goes online.


Your theory that Apple is somehow "lying" about the $4.99 is mind boggling. Also, a monopoly isn't supposed to work for everyone, it's supposed to work for one company. And it has been pointed out so many times that Apple isn't a monopoly in digital content. Please look it up if you're still having trouble understanding the concept. If NBC can sell their content at a low price, and are going to once they open their own store, why would they pull their content from iTunes. That's just taking away a proven sales channel.

parkds
Aug 31, 2007, 02:37 PM
And to write to the Sci Fi channel about Battlstar Galactica et al, use feedback@ here:
http://www.scifi.com/help/feedback/

Remember, sounding intelligent will make an impression. Insults and threats will not. Explain that you WOULD spend money on their shows via iTunes, and that you won't by other means.

As a previous SCI FI employee, SCI FI has little say over this decision. NBC has an entire devision for online and technology initiatives. While a message might get passed along, the .com guys don't have a lot of say in this issue. I believe contacting NBC-UNI or NBC proper is a better approach.

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 02:39 PM
Lets not also forget the recent rumors that Microsoft have donated towards the $150m allegedly received by Paramount/Dreamworks to move exclusively to HD DVD.

The politics in this industry are staggering. This pricing issue only touches the surface.

Parky
Aug 31, 2007, 02:39 PM
Nothing more than greed again, I really hope that NBC lose out on this.

Ian

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 02:40 PM
Your theory that Apple is somehow "lying" about the $4.99 is mind boggling. Also, a monopoly isn't supposed to work for everyone, it's supposed to work for one company. And it has been pointed out so many times that Apple isn't a monopoly in digital content. Please look it up if you're still having trouble understanding the concept. If NBC can sell their content at a low price, and are going to once they open their own store, why would they pull their content from iTunes. That's just taking away a proven sales channel.

I didn't say apple is lying, I said apple didn't tell you the whole truth that the reason of $4.99 is partly caused by their unwillingness to give up part of the profit. Part of the story, You can judge it is lie or not.

your question is exactly the right one,

"will NBC sell TV shows for $4.99 on their own store"? thats the question.

AT71
Aug 31, 2007, 02:40 PM
In the end, I think both Apple and NBC will lose.

If the rest of the networks wanna do a NBC, Apple's iTunes Store will fall from grace.

I'm sure the rest like Wal-Mart, Amazon and whoever would luv to pick up the pieces and make these whole video buying experience a mess.

As a consumer, I just lose out on catching the latest shows. I don't think I even wanna buy DVDs anymore. I juz rent or borrow from friends.

balamw
Aug 31, 2007, 02:41 PM
now I found the #
apple gets 55c/episode. (http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2006/01/24/apple-cents-and-advertising)

lets bet if NBC will sell their shows for $1.69/episode (1.59, 1.79, 1.89 are sure possible too.)

From the same article you linked the network makes < $0.60/show from the traditional advertiser supported model. So why not $0.59/show?

B

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 02:42 PM
From the same article you linked the network makes < $0.60/show from the traditional advertiser supported model. So why not $0.59/show?

B

ha, because they need more profit than ITMS, at the same time, no higher price to end-users than ITMS. $1.45~$1.98 will be the range. anything higher than $2.00 will be stupid. and NBCs can just kill themselves.

sbarton
Aug 31, 2007, 02:44 PM
Anyone know what the average number television viewers is (both broadcast and dvr) for some of the popular NBC shows?

I would like to know how much NBC brings back from advertisers and broadcasters on average for each episode. Then I would like to extrapolate what we think they would make if ALL of those viewers purchased the same episode from iTunes at the current $1.99 price point.

Basically the two numbers should be pretty close to each other right? That would be the fair price point right?

What am I missing here? Honest question.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 02:46 PM
Anyone know what the average number television viewers is (both live and dvr) for some of the popular NBC shows?

I would like to know how much NBC brings back from advertisers and broadcasters on average for each episode. Then I would like to extrapolate what we think they would make if ALL of those viewers purchased the same episode from iTunes at the current $1.99 price point.

Basically the two numbers should be pretty close to each other right? That would be the fair price point right?

What am I missing here? Honest question.

top shows in prime time are normally getting 15~20m viewers. and online store is very small, there is really not much can be compared.

sosumi1981
Aug 31, 2007, 02:46 PM
I didn't say apple is lying, I said apple didn't tell you the whole truth that the reason of $4.99 is partly caused by their unwillingness to give up part of the profit. Part of the story, You can judge it is lie or not.

your question is exactly the right one,

"will NBC sell TV shows for $4.99 on their own store"? thats the question.

Well I'm sure glad you have the inside track and know that Apple is keeping that information from us. It couldn't possibly be that NBC wanted to double the price which interferes with Apple's $1.99 price scheme. Why couldn't Apple raise the price so that they were receiving the same $.55 that they are now, they're obviously okay with that number as they've been getting it for a year.

dparri526
Aug 31, 2007, 02:47 PM
From the same article you linked the network makes < $0.60/show from the traditional advertiser supported model. So why not $0.59/show?

B

I would prefer to buy. But I won't pay $4.99 and I won't do without. I guess that means I will pay nothing. Who loses in this scenario?:mad:

stompy
Aug 31, 2007, 02:47 PM
ha, because they need more profit than ITMS, at the same time, no higher price to end-users than ITMS. $1.45~$1.98 will be the range. anything higher than $2.00 will be stupid. and NBCs can just kill themselves.

NBCs costs for a DIY store will undoubtedly be higher than through iTMS. I'd guess closer to $1.99 than (current) $1.44.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 02:48 PM
Well I'm sure glad you have the inside track and know that Apple is keeping that information from us. It couldn't possibly be that NBC wanted to double the price which interferes with Apple's $1.99 price scheme. Why couldn't Apple raise the price so that they were receiving the same $.55 that they are now, they're obviously okay with that number as they've been getting it for a year.

good point, I don't have the proof, just like you don't

then, what do we do?

we wait and see how much NBC charge on their own online store!

NBCs costs for a DIY store will undoubtedly be higher than through iTMS. I'd guess closer to $1.99 than (current) $1.44.

well, sure servers cost extra $$$. just not sure if 100 servers will cost significant amount of $$$ as you might think.. we shall see.

timothyjay2004
Aug 31, 2007, 02:49 PM
What kills me is NBC, like all other networks, depend on advertisement to pay for their shows. You can watch the episode on the tv at night for free and the show was paid for because of the advertisement. Now, iTunes shows did not include advertisements, BUT, the show was already paid for because of cable etc. so they made money on each show downloaded. I can understand why they'd ask for an increase to increase profit, but when it was turned down why would you just quit the agreement?? I'd keep the agreement going because it was income, especially since it is NBC we are talking about here. NBC is on a downward fall compared to the other networks, it was stupid of them to do that.

Maccus Aurelius
Aug 31, 2007, 02:50 PM
I looked all over this thread, and I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but couldn't this also set precedent for other studios that take notice? If Apple were to kowtow, what's to stop other studios from following suit? Then, everyone would start pushing for higher prices, or else.

now I found the #
apple get 55c/episode.

lets bet if NBC will sell their shows for $1.69/episode

What percentage does any retailer get for the wares they peddle? My guess is they get enough to turn a profit. Why shouldn't Apple?

OldTimey
Aug 31, 2007, 02:50 PM
Good riddance i say, even though ive spent 70+ dollars on NBC shows. Ill tape/tivo them, and fast forward through commercials.

dumb dumb dumb.


And MS will NEVER be in my living room, in any shape or form.

don't hit your ass on the way out, #3 network.

parkds
Aug 31, 2007, 02:50 PM
Lets not also forget the recent rumors that Microsoft have donated towards the $150m allegedly received by Paramount/Dreamworks to move exclusively to HD DVD.

The politics in this industry are staggering. This pricing issue only touches the surface.

I have been thinking about this also, especially since many believe that MS is trying to continue the HD format war so their Live store with HD content can fill the void. NBC (who owns Universal...not Universal Music though) might be under some MS influence with the recent cash windfall from MS and the HD-DVD Forum.

sosumi1981
Aug 31, 2007, 02:51 PM
good point, I don't have the proof, just like you don't

then, what do we do?

we wait and see how much NBC charge on their own online store!

No, I don't have proof, but then again I don't need it as I'm not the one making outrageous claims about why Apple is doing what they're doing.

ricosuave
Aug 31, 2007, 02:51 PM
Oh I'm rather sure that the operating room episode referenced Junior Mints.

See! It stuck with me all that time!

And don't forget Sue Ellen Mischke, heir to the O'Henry candy bar fortune!

Yup, you are right. I wasn't sure about the dibs.

But can anyone on this board remember what commercials aired during these episodes?

These pretzels are making me thirsty!

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 02:53 PM
Well I'm sure glad you have the inside track and know that Apple is keeping that information from us. It couldn't possibly be that NBC wanted to double the price which interferes with Apple's $1.99 price scheme. Why couldn't Apple raise the price so that they were receiving the same $.55 that they are now, they're obviously okay with that number as they've been getting it for a year.


Because then everybody will request the price increase and all of a sudden the iTunes store looks less attractive.

If this is a margins issue for Apple, then we have the following.

Apple currently takes .55, which is 27% of the revenue.

27% of the $4.99 = $1.34
Which means that at that %, NBC would want $3.60 per episode.
If it is currently making $1.45 per episode, then Apples claim that they wanted more than double the current wholesale price holds true. According to these figures, its around 2.5x the current price.

So if NBC did want more than double, then these figures are entirely realistic , based on Apple maintaining existing margins.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 02:53 PM
No, I don't have proof, but then again I don't need it as I'm not the one making outrageous claims about why Apple is doing what they're doing.

haha, I guess you can comfortably ignore the fact that my claim is response to claims made by others, which has exactly same content as yours.

If Apple were to kowtow, what's to stop other studios from following suit? Then, everyone would start pushing for higher prices, or else.
nothing stops other network of walking away from ITMS except contract, I bet they are watching now, if NBC survive this, they will walk away once their contracts end

balamw
Aug 31, 2007, 02:55 PM
ha, because they need more profit than ITMS, at the same time, no higher price to end-users than ITMS. $1.45~$1.98 will be the range. anything higher than $2.00 will be stupid. and NBCs can just kill themselves.

Yes, but if they can sell 5x as many shows at $0.60 they will make more money than if they just sold one $1.69 or even $1.99.

Profit, or better still revenue per show watched is a poor measure. Total revenue/profit is what counts.

B

Analog Kid
Aug 31, 2007, 02:55 PM
obviously I meant "percentage"
Same thing, still fractions of a hundred... ;)
now I found the #
apple gets 55c/episode. (http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2006/01/24/apple-cents-and-advertising)

lets bet if NBC will sell their shows for $1.69/episode (1.59, 1.79, 1.89 are sure possible too.)
If they sell for $1.69, they're losing money compared to iTMS. That 55 cents covers bandwidth and credit card fees too, you know... Apple really is only getting pennies per download, and I'm pretty sure it's pennies, not dimes. You're talking less than twice the cut to Apple (compared to music) for more than 50 times the data-- bandwidth and storage ain't free...

sosumi1981
Aug 31, 2007, 02:57 PM
haha, I guess you can comfortably ignore the fact that my claim is response to claims made by others, which has exactly same content as yours.


nothing stops other network of walking away from ITMS except contract, I bet they are watching now, if NBC survive this, they will walk away once their contracts end

Not really, your posts started with your claims that Apple was at fault. Most everyone else was responding to the news that NBC was being dropped for the reasons Apple listed in it's press release.

LastLine
Aug 31, 2007, 02:59 PM
Looks like I'll be downloading "The Office" and "30 Rock" from other (free) sources.

The Office, Scrubs and Heroes (that's NBC in the states right?) for me. Shame - as although downloading from iTunes is a legal grey area for me (being from the UK) I felt it was more honourable than bittorrent or other similar sources. I'm not paying $4.99 for them so I'll have to rethink this a little...hmmm

sosumi1981
Aug 31, 2007, 02:59 PM
Because then everybody will request the price increase and all of a sudden the iTunes store looks less attractive.

If this is a margins issue for Apple, then we have the following.

Apple currently takes .55, which is 27% of the revenue.

27% of the $4.99 = $1.34
Which means that at that %, NBC would want $3.60 per episode.
If it is currently making $1.45 per episode, then Apples claim that they wanted more than double the current wholesale price holds true. According to these figures, its around 2.5x the current price.

So if NBC did want more than double, then these figures are entirely realistic , based on Apple maintaining existing margins.

Exactly my point! Apple doesn't seem to want to change from their current pricing scheme. So I guess I have no clue as to what you're saying.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 02:59 PM
Yes, but if they can sell 5x as many shows at $0.60 they will make more money than if they just sold one $1.69 or even $1.99.

B
You are right.

Same thing, still fractions of a hundred... ;)

If they sell for $1.69, they're losing money compared to iTMS. That 55 cents covers bandwidth and credit card fees too, you know...

we are discussing something that has little data if any.

you do noticed this 1.44 and 0.55 are simplified numbers, if apple earn 55c/episode, and NBC earn $1.44, where did the bandwidth costs go? Im sure its not that a simple calculation, altho I have no data to make further analysis.

sartinsauce
Aug 31, 2007, 03:00 PM
don't hit your ass on the way out, #3 network.

Aren't they #4. At least, in terms of ratings, which is usually an indication of their rankings in terms of income as well. I can't say about profits though...

ooberpongo
Aug 31, 2007, 03:00 PM
I have been reading the whole thread but forgot to count who is in favor of apple or nbc.
Can someone setup a vote in this forum?

I personally think apple should let the content providers set the wholesale prices, then apple can still set their own margin. That way we will have sooner or later the optimum price that leads to the largest profits for everyone involved

That way, the studios will probably also flood the itunes store with old content at bargain prices just like some older DVDs in the retail store.

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 03:10 PM
Exactly my point! Apple doesn't seem to want to change from their current pricing scheme. So I guess I have no clue as to what you're saying.


Yep, but the question is - Why should they change their current pricing scheme? Even if they kept 0.55 per sale on the new price, that would leave the retail price at around $4. Which would result in a catastrophic drop in sales (basic price elasticity theory). Which would then result in a huge drop in the already little money they make from TV show sales. Yet their fixed costs remain the same.

People really need to think this stuff through before jumping to conclusions.

sblasl
Aug 31, 2007, 03:11 PM
nbcshows@nbcuni.com

balamw
Aug 31, 2007, 03:12 PM
If apple earn 55c/episode, and NBC earn $1.44, where did the bandwidth costs go?

That's because you're confusing revenue and profit.

Apple gets $1.99 from the consumer and pays $1.44 to the (top) content providers.

Of the $0.55 they don't pass on come the operational costs (bandwidth, credit card fees, salaries for the employees that cover customer support, hardware, ...), marketing, and finally .... "profit", which for Apple is probably close to 1/4 of the $0.55 or a measly $0.14 per episode of a show.

B

dextertangocci
Aug 31, 2007, 03:12 PM
Isn't heroes on NBC?:(

Anyway.. maybe it's good news seen as I won't feel bad getting them for free now:cool:

haha.

what idiots

sosumi1981
Aug 31, 2007, 03:12 PM
You are right.



we are discussing something that has little data if any.

you do noticed this 1.44 and 0.55 are simplified numbers, if apple earn 55c/episode, and NBC earn $1.44, where did the bandwidth costs go? Im sure its not that a simple calculation, altho I have no data to make further analysis.


Look, Professor Economics, what does this have to do with anything. Are you now arguing that the shows don't cost a $1.99? This would make some sense if iTunes was a joint venture between Apple and NBC, but it's not. NBC doesn't have anything to do with how much Apple pays for the bandwidth to run iTunes.

tdhurst
Aug 31, 2007, 03:13 PM
Kudos to Apple.

While I had no problem paying $1.99 per episode, $4.99 is ridiculous. I'm happy using bittorrent from now on.

And don't tell me that NBC offers them for free on their website, too. I want to watch the episodes full size on my TV.

stevehp
Aug 31, 2007, 03:14 PM
this thread should be re-titled to:

NBC Stops Selling TV Shows on iTunes

This is clearly not Apple's doing.

Unspeaked
Aug 31, 2007, 03:14 PM
Technically, both NBC and Universal are owned by General Electric. However, I think this may have a lot to do with Microsoft. Apparently, Universal gets some money from every Zune sale, which means that they might have had some deal worked out ahead of time. Maybe Microsoft was able to get Universal and NBC's parent company, GE, to give them a good price, while promising to hike up their price to Apple. Either way, I'm saddened by this whole thing.

This is way off, and it's something many people have gotten wrong in this thread.

Once and for all, this is the NBC-Universal breakdown:

NBC was bought be the GE Corporation some time back (in the 80s, I think). They were the sole owners until 2004 when Universal took a 20% stake in the company.

Universal itself is owned by French conglomerate Vivendi.

So NBC-Universal is owned 80% by the GE Corporation and 20% by Vivendi SA.

NBC and Universal are NOT the same company, never have been, and don't plan to be anytime soon...

sosumi1981
Aug 31, 2007, 03:15 PM
Yep, but the question is - Why should they change their current pricing scheme? Even if they kept 0.55 per sale on the new price, that would leave the retail price at around $4. Which would result in a catastrophic drop in sales (basic price elasticity theory). Which would then result in a huge drop in the already little money they make from TV show sales. Yet their fixed costs remain the same.

People really need to think this stuff through before jumping to conclusions.


I have never once argued that they should change their pricing scheme, I was merely pointing out the flaws in clevins argument.

People really need to read this suff through before jumping to conclusions.

siurpeeman
Aug 31, 2007, 03:16 PM
this thread should be re-titled to:

NBC Stops Selling TV Shows on iTunes

This is clearly not Apple's doing.

well, that's what the third thread on the front page is. this thread is apple's reaction to nbc's decision. rather than selling tv shows into december (the end of the contract), apple's pulling the plug on nbc shows before the start of the new season. this thread is properly titled.

Project
Aug 31, 2007, 03:20 PM
I have never once argued that they should change their pricing scheme, I was merely pointing out the flaws in clevins argument.

People really need to read this suff through before jumping to conclusions.

lol, I was arguing his points too. I said 'Yep' in response to your post because I agreed with it. I should have been clearer that the rest of my post was not in response to your views, but clevins.

Plutonius
Aug 31, 2007, 03:22 PM
now I found the #
apple gets 55c/episode. (http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2006/01/24/apple-cents-and-advertising)

lets bet if NBC will sell their shows for $1.69/episode (1.59, 1.79, 1.89 are sure possible too.)

Hmmm. So Apple is currently getting about 28% of the revenue from each episode. If Apple was going to keep the revenue percentage the same at the $4.99 price, that means that NBC was asking around $3.59 for each episode.

sosumi1981
Aug 31, 2007, 03:24 PM
lol, I was arguing his points too. I said 'Yep' in response to your post because I agreed with it. I should have been clearer that the rest of my post was not in response to your views, but clevins.

OH, Sorry :o Didn't mean to get so defensive.

cazlar
Aug 31, 2007, 03:24 PM
It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but perhaps this makes more sense if you assume that HD content is involved, and the 55c number is correct. Maybe NBC thought - "oh HD is 1280x720, SD is 640x480 - that's triple the pixels in HD! But we can cut you a super deal Apple, and only charge you 2.5x more? How's that sound?".

Either way, it's still stupid and greedy.

surferfromuk
Aug 31, 2007, 03:25 PM
If NBC are going to behave like pirates! then piracy is jolly well what they are going to get....

The Toon Master
Aug 31, 2007, 03:25 PM
******************'

This sucks, a lot of my stuff i got was from NBC

I officially hate NBC

paja
Aug 31, 2007, 03:25 PM
Just purchased the Elgato EyeTV 250 Plus.

I now get your shows anytime I want on my :apple:TV or iPhone. Free, no more $1.99 for you twits!

ghall
Aug 31, 2007, 03:27 PM
This is just total bull crap! My favorite TV show ever is The Office, and I never have time to watch the show on TV. But $4.99 per episode? That's crazy talk, and there's no way I'll pay that.

Screw you, NBC, you just lost a customer.

Weren't they one of the original networks to sign on for the iTunes store?

balamw
Aug 31, 2007, 03:28 PM
NBC and Universal are NOT the same company, never have been, and don't plan to be anytime soon...
http://www.nbcuni.com/About_NBC_Universal/Company_Overview/

NBC and Vivendi Universal Entertainment (Universal's TV arm) merged in 2004.

This is how SciFi/USA/... were added to NBC's "family" of networks.

B

Unspeaked
Aug 31, 2007, 03:29 PM
It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but perhaps this makes more sense if you assume that HD content is involved, and the 55c number is correct. Maybe NBC thought - "oh HD is 1280x720, SD is 640x480 - that's triple the pixels in HD! But we can cut you a super deal Apple, and only charge you 2.5x more? How's that sound?".

Yeah, I'm *sure* the NBC accountants stepped aside from editing their latest Final Cut Pro project and archiving their CGI templates onto imported Japanese DVD-Rs just long enough to suggest NBC ask for a little more from Apple for HD content...

(Translate: I find it very unlikely that anyone calling these types of shots at NBC would know the first thing about resolution, codecs, transfer rate or other technical stuff...)

dpertell
Aug 31, 2007, 03:31 PM
You know what? iTunes sell Friday Night Lights for $40. While Best Buy sells it for $25 and on sale for this week at $20. How much is NBC want? ****! How much is their cut on $25 vs. $40. Sound like greed to me. NBC does not have to pay for hosting, bandwidth, credit card transactions. All I have to say is F* em!

Unspeaked
Aug 31, 2007, 03:32 PM
http://www.nbcuni.com/About_NBC_Universal/Company_Overview/

NBC and Vivendi Universal Entertainment (Universal's TV arm) merged in 2004.

This is how SciFi/USA/... were added to NBC's "family" of networks.

B

Um, so you basically posted a link to a page that states what I already said in my original post?

NBC Universal does NOT equal Universal.

There is more to Universal than NBC Universal, such as the Universal Music group and their stable of artists, which NBC (and GE) have nothing to do with...

gnasher729
Aug 31, 2007, 03:33 PM
Why couldn't Apple raise the price so that they were receiving the same $.55 that they are now, they're obviously okay with that number as they've been getting it for a year.

No, Apple doesn't get $0.55. The get $0.55 times thousands of sales. If NBC doubles the price, then Apple would get only $0.55 times much less than half the sales. Agreeing to that would be outright stupid. Ask any shop owner whether they would be willing to take the same margin when the producer doubles their wholesale price.

gloubibou
Aug 31, 2007, 03:33 PM
In France, TF1 vison as the Heros episode up for sale with subtitles the day after the first US broadcast:

http://www.tf1vision.com/tf1vision/television/serie-tv/heroes/heroesvost/

I hope iTunes can join the movement of suppressing the delays in getting shows to Europe.

Pierre

offwidafairies
Aug 31, 2007, 03:37 PM
I admit I dont like to buy from the itunes store. The reason is I think prices are already beyond my budget. I was hoping in the future iTunes store prices would come down, not go up. I am happy about NBC not using Apple. (Or Apple not using NBC). This gives me hope that in the future I too will be able to buy legal shows and music in my price range :)

ariel
Aug 31, 2007, 03:39 PM
if you're taking the time to complain here, then please also take the time to let NBC know...

http://www.nbc.com/Footer/Contact_Us/

I sent them my comments - i doubt it will change their minds, but i couldn't let it go without telling them directly.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 03:40 PM
I admit I dont like to buy from the itunes store. The reason is I think prices are already beyond my budget. I was hoping in the future iTunes store prices would come down, not go up. I am happy about NBC not using Apple. (Or Apple not using NBC). This gives me hope that in the future I too will be able to buy legal shows and music in my price range :)

agreed, multiple players in the market eventually will drive price down. we shall wait and see.

gnasher729
Aug 31, 2007, 03:41 PM
right. as sad as it is, these days nobody would expect a "retail channel" to eat the raise of the producer.


NBC can always try to sell through Walmart and see how far they get...:D

jblakeh1
Aug 31, 2007, 03:42 PM
I think the tv networks are terrified of the internet just as record companies were, but for somewhat different reasons:

http://adage.com/digital/article?article_id=120199

Every year big companies shift more and more of their ad budgets to the internet. TV is going the way of radio.

With NBC.com they have managed to recreate the advertising model of television, but little else - does anyone really sit through an entire episode in a browser window? I'd be curious to see what kind of viewership they get off their site. It probably isn't all that impressive.

And if you consider NBC's role in most television these days, aren't they just a distributor, on a certain level?

They're just trying to find their place in the internet space, and like newspapers and radio stations, haven't really figured it out - we're no longer tied to their airwaves and their business model is dying quickly. They sat around and waited for YouTube and iTunes to happen, as they inevitably would, so they are making lots of idiotic and inexplicable decisions trying to figure out where all that lost money is going to come from.

I expect hulu.com to be just as exciting as nbc.com, and just as successful as playsforsure or connect. They've just done themselves a huge disservice by sacrificing the only digital marketplace that has made them any money, and will likely be the only profitable service for them online in a very long time.

gloss
Aug 31, 2007, 03:43 PM
Kudos to Apple for telling NBC to GTFO.

diamond.g
Aug 31, 2007, 03:44 PM
Apple doesn't support either format. There may have been keynotes and press releases giving lip service to both, but I still can't watch BlueRay or HD-DVD on my Mac.
Hmm, pretty sure FCP allows you to write HD DVD's, and I am pretty sure that Apple is on the BR board.

Lets not also forget the recent rumors that Microsoft have donated towards the $150m allegedly received by Paramount/Dreamworks to move exclusively to HD DVD.

The politics in this industry are staggering. This pricing issue only touches the surface.
Nothing new. See PS3...

And MS will NEVER be in my living room, in any shape or form.

Well I guess you don't own a BR or HD DVD player. As both make MS money, which puts MS in your living room by default.
I have been thinking about this also, especially since many believe that MS is trying to continue the HD format war so their Live store with HD content can fill the void. NBC (who owns Universal...not Universal Music though) might be under some MS influence with the recent cash windfall from MS and the HD-DVD Forum.
Could be. I think MS is more worried about Sony than they are Apple. If Apple were to start offering HD movies and TV shows, then maybe, but until then when it comes to that division Sony is king.

Consultant
Aug 31, 2007, 03:46 PM
I admit I dont like to buy from the itunes store. The reason is I think prices are already beyond my budget. I was hoping in the future iTunes store prices would come down, not go up. I am happy about NBC not using Apple. (Or Apple not using NBC). This gives me hope that in the future I too will be able to buy legal shows and music in my price range :)

NBC wants to RAISE their prices, not lower their prices. They are leaving Apple for now, because they THINK they will get more profit by charging MORE PER SHOW.

(However, apparently the NBC execs forgot about the lesson on elasticity of demand from economics 101... A TV show at the same price as a rental movie? no way anyone will go for that).

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 03:46 PM
NBC can always try to sell through Walmart and see how far they get...:D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_online_music_stores

and their own HULU.com......

NBC wants to RAISE their prices, not lower their prices. They are leaving Apple for now, because they will get more profit by charging MORE PER SHOW.
mark your words and lets wait and see.

balamw
Aug 31, 2007, 03:53 PM
Um, so you basically posted a link to a page that states what I already said in my original post?

I was expanding on your post. The section I quoted probably wasn't as clear about that.

You gave the impression that Vivendi bought or somehow acquired 20% of NBC.

They were the sole owners until 2004 when Universal took a 20% stake in the company.

I was just trying to clarify that it was a merger of a part of Universal into NBC that gave Vivendi it's 20% ownership in NBC Universal.

B

cmonster
Aug 31, 2007, 04:00 PM
I think you going to see a ton of people resorting to the less honest bittorrent way of getting them. What a stupid move.

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 04:02 PM
I think you going to see a ton of people resorting to the less honest bittorrent way of getting them. What a stupid move.

mmmmm. sure, but what if they can download from NBC official store for $1.79? rather than $1.99 from ITMS?

just a guess.

antic
Aug 31, 2007, 04:02 PM
What I can't understand is why anyone would pay for $1.99 let alone $3.99 for a program, other than convenience when its already been aired and it can be recorded. From what I can see anything that NBC gets from itunes is pure profit over and above what it gets from the various TV networks. Living in the uk we haven't had the pleasure of itunes video downloads but a full series of any prog is going to take a considerable amount of disc space. If you are a fan of a particular series then you are more than likely still going to by the DVD.

By the way we still don't actually know what Apple is being charged by NBC and what they are adding as % profit.

gloss
Aug 31, 2007, 04:05 PM
mmmmm. sure, but what if they can download from NBC official store for $1.79? rather than $1.99 from ITMS?

just a guess.

Yes, I'm SURE they'll do this considering they were demanding $4.99 a pop from Apple.

I'm guessing, if it happens, it'll be around $3.99, WMV, and ridiculously DRM'd.

NightStorm
Aug 31, 2007, 04:05 PM
mmmmm. sure, but what if they can download from NBC official store for $1.79? rather than $1.99 from ITMS?

just a guess.

It would likely use Microsoft DRM though, so us Mac/iPod/iPhone/AppleTV users wouldn't be able to view it anyways...

OldTimey
Aug 31, 2007, 04:05 PM
Well I guess you don't own a BR or HD DVD player. As both make MS money, which puts MS in your living room by default.


Uh no...you are right on that...i don't. i don't even have an HDTV, or cable. waste of money if you ask me.

jabu31
Aug 31, 2007, 04:05 PM
:eek:WTF!!!!!:eek:

Seriously adn big money hungry corporations like NBC and even music labels wonder why they are in the Poop (self edit) :) Hole in lacking profits!!!!!!

To hell with NBC like I even ever found any of the content sold on the music store worthwhile to buy! Sure there is SNL but thats the only good thing but even that was complete crap because it was edited down.

NO WAY I WOULD EVER PAY $5 FOR AN EPISODE!!!!!:mad::confused:

GO FOX NETWORK!!!:D

clevin
Aug 31, 2007, 04:06 PM
I'm guessing, if it happens, it'll be around $3.99, WMV, and ridiculously DRM'd.

err... so you are guessing they give up mac platform all together? interesting.

synth3tik
Aug 31, 2007, 04:09 PM
Great just great. I have been waiting for the next season of 2 NBC shows, So I guess I am going to have to look at these incomplete seasons. :mad:

ErikGrim
Aug 31, 2007, 04:11 PM
Please don't post those kinds of links here (http://www.spam.com) for the win, NBC for the lose!
:D

sinterp29
Aug 31, 2007, 04:12 PM
I think NBC (Universal) is going to be the bigger loser in this ultimately, though, I would caution Apple not to display too much hubris going forward, because there is a growing perception that partnerships with Apple benefit Apple more than anyone else. I'm not saying that this is the case here, but it's the perception that counts. In that regard, Apple's press release was a wise and timely move.

I still wonder if Apple should not have just bitten the bullet on this one. For one thing, NBC could not have honestly wanted there episodes going for $4.99 while every other network remained at $1.99. It sounds like it was the first move in a game of hardball negotiating that Apple was simply not willing to entertain. In terms of big picture though, Apple could have afforded to take less profit, or even a slight loss, because they are not really in the business of selling music and tv shows, they are in the business of making iPods (and Macs, and iPhones...and one day AppleTVs). iTunes only exists to support the realm of downloadable content, because the more people there are out there downloading music and video, the more iPods Apple is going to sell. Let's face it, if I'm going to watch video on the go I'm probably going to do it on an iPod. As a percentage of revenue, everything Apple makes off of iTunes is pocket change, so why they would want to play hardball with profit sharing kind of confuses me. They are going to punish NBC over this, and have them come back with their tails between their legs, but it'll probably just make other content providers nervous about who they are currently in bed with, and thus explore the option of other alternatives.

In any event, NBC should have known better. For one thing they got a hell of a lot of free advertising through iTunes, and I am almost certain that shows like Heroes would not have been as successful had it not been for iTunes, and people's ability to catch up on eps they missed, or get into the show late into the season. They are completely overplaying their hand, but I guess my point is, so might Apple...

jabu31
Aug 31, 2007, 04:14 PM
I think i have noticed that networks are starting to make their own websites available to sell and view their shows.So NBC might just decide their episodes on their own website for $5?!?!

THat sounds smart:confused: