Steve Fossett Missing [Archive]

IJ Reilly

Sep 4, 2007, 03:10 PM

Rreports are saying it was his single-engine Bellanca Super Decathlon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8KCAB_Decathlon).

Not the kind of airplane usually used for cross-county flying. Aerobatics, and training, mainly. I'm surprised that nobody seems to know where he was headed.

FWIW, hardly anyone files flight plans for VFR.

WildCowboy

Sep 4, 2007, 05:48 PM

IJ Reilly

Sep 4, 2007, 06:51 PM

Seems like he was supposed to return to the ranch he took off from. He apparently didn't have a parachute, which would have been required had he intended to do acrobatics.

Apparently this (http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/N240R.html) is the aircraft he was flying.

The airplane should also have had an operable ELT (emergency locator transmitter), which should make it easy to find especially if he was flying locally.

I've never seen that site before. Somebody has actually taken pictures of my airplane too. Wild.

leekohler

Sep 4, 2007, 06:55 PM

Eek! I used to skydive from little planes like that. The ride up was scarier than actually jumping. I was always relieved to get out of the thing. I hope they find him and I hope he's OK, but I guess it doesn't look so good.

EricNau

Sep 4, 2007, 06:56 PM

Am I the only one who finds it slightly odd that they can't find it.

...It's not like the plane vanished over the Pacific in the mid-1900s. ...This is 2007!

:confused:

Keebler

Sep 4, 2007, 09:52 PM

Am I the only one who finds it slightly odd that they can't find it.

...It's not like the plane vanished over the Pacific in the mid-1900s. ...This is 2007!

:confused:

it's quite easy Eric. no offense, but have you flown over non-populated areas of north america? It can be extremely thick. if a plane were to bust through top canopy of a thick forest, it could be well hidden.

i've been deer hunting where i've walked on such tree roots and thick junipers, that I wasn't even on the ground and I was up 2 or 3 feet.

easily done unfortunately.

as 'good' as humans are, we'll never conquer this planet :)

IJ Reilly

Sep 5, 2007, 01:57 AM

Am I the only one who finds it slightly odd that they can't find it.

...It's not like the plane vanished over the Pacific in the mid-1900s. ...This is 2007!

:confused:

I think it's very odd. I can't recall the last time I heard of an airplane disappearing over land in the U.S. If the airplane crashed, the ELT could be heard by anyone with a radio flying within miles of it. And this is desert country we're talking about, not jungle. I'd call it quite puzzling.

phillipjfry

Sep 5, 2007, 04:46 PM

kinda sounds like something someone would do if they didn't want to be found :confused:

leekohler

Sep 5, 2007, 05:54 PM

I think it's very odd. I can't recall the last time I heard of an airplane disappearing over land in the U.S. If the airplane crashed, the ELT could be heard by anyone with a radio flying within miles of it. And this is desert country we're talking about, not jungle. I'd call it quite puzzling.

That is weird. It's been what? Two days now? You'd think they would know something.

IJ Reilly

Sep 5, 2007, 06:21 PM

That is weird. It's been what? Two days now? You'd think they would know something.

I suspect alien abduction.

I read a quote in the paper this morning from somebody who said (more or less) that if Steve Fossett was killed in this way then it would be like a NASCAR driver being killed while parking a Camry. I also flashed on George Carlin's old ironic headline, "Jacque Cousteau dies in bathtub accident."

gazelleintense

Sep 6, 2007, 05:56 PM

hope hes ok, but I find him to be annoying.

has tons of money and nothing better to do than to do something to "get himself" in the limelight and get his name and pic in the news every so often.

must have a major ego? or needs a life? or both?

anyway, hope they find him, it's not looking good.

EricNau

Sep 6, 2007, 06:00 PM

Apparently he was wearing a Breitling Emergency watch, which should also emit an emergency frequency.

sanford

Sep 11, 2007, 06:54 PM

From CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/11/fossett.search.ap/index.html

Isn't this sort of, well, stupid? Aren't Google's and Yahoo's and the different publicly available satellite photography of regions, especially non-urban, low-populations regions not updated all that often? For example, using Google's satellite map for our street, the same car as been parked in front of our townhouse for a year, although that car is never there anymore and obviously belonged to some one a while back when the photograph was last updated. And we're in a large urban area where building and development is ongoing, for which you would expect more frequent updates.

So isn't it highly unlikely Google would have a satellite photo available to the public current enough to show the wreckage of Fossett's plane?

FJ218700

Sep 11, 2007, 06:57 PM

didn't read the link, but yeah, those maps aren't updated that often. . . unless someone pulled some strings to get updated sat pics of the area

TheAnswer

Sep 11, 2007, 07:12 PM

The only way I could see this being at all useful is if they were using the older Google satellite images to rule out certain debris sightings as Fossett's crash site.

WildCowboy

Sep 11, 2007, 07:16 PM

sanford

Sep 11, 2007, 07:31 PM

When the news about Google helping first came out last week, it was mentioned that they were working with their satellite vendor to get recent photos of the area, but there wasn't a scheduled fly-over until this past weekend. I assume they have some new photos now, but I'm not sure if they're available to the general public on the Google Maps site. I would think not.

That's what I thought. This would be a kind of non-story story about Hey, look what folks are doing with the Internet. Ruling out debris or geological formations that could mimic the appearance of a plane crash makes sense; but I'd think the average Web surfer isn't qualified to even point these out -- they'd get a million phone calls and e-mails -- let alone rule them out.

Overwhelming odds are that hurrying to find him in time, the only change in outcome will be the condition of his corpse when they find him. Sad, but true. He almost surely died in the crash or shortly thereafter.

MacNut

Sep 11, 2007, 07:34 PM

I heard a report that there were 50 something planes that had crashed in the area they are searching.

IJ Reilly

Sep 11, 2007, 07:36 PM

Fossett has been missing for an entire week now. Unless he's pulled an Aimee Semple McPherson (look it up!), I don't expect he'll be found alive.

sanford

Sep 11, 2007, 07:40 PM

I heard a report that there were 50 something planes that had crashed in the area they are searching.

Oh joy. Making current satellite photography not requiring a top secret security clearance virtually useless even to experts in search/rescue image analysis.

Flat out his distress transponder or transmitter should have been manually activated when he knew he was going down hard or automatically after the crash. If the crash was so severe it destroyed the distress unit, which should have been pretty well shielded, it's possible he survived but unlikely.

Fossett has been missing for an entire week now. Unless he's pulled an Aimee Semple McPherson (look it up!), I don't expect he'll be found alive.

I'd say you or I might not make it an entire week in the wild, but Fossett might, if he was carrying at least some water or located a nearby clean water source. But I still think he died of injuries sustained in the crash.

As for McPherson, similar but different, you know how many people who died in WTC 9/11 or Katrina who are living somewhere in the world under an assumed name? At least a few. Every large multi-fatality, missing-body disaster at least couple people use it as an opportunity to drop out, run away and start over.

MrSmith

Sep 11, 2007, 08:14 PM

Amazon Mechanical Turk (http://www.mturk.com/mturk/preview?groupId=9TSZK4G35XEZJZG21T60&kw=Flash) - updated sat pics. Try not to squint too much.

PlaceofDis

Sep 11, 2007, 08:24 PM

i haven't heard much about this lately, i just hope it doesn't turn out unsolved in the end.

IJ Reilly

Sep 11, 2007, 08:48 PM

I'd say you or I might not make it an entire week in the wild, but Fossett might, if he was carrying at least some water or located a nearby clean water source. But I still think he died of injuries sustained in the crash.

As for McPherson, similar but different, you know how many people who died in WTC 9/11 or Katrina who are living somewhere in the world under an assumed name? At least a few. Every large multi-fatality, missing-body disaster at least couple people use it as an opportunity to drop out, run away and start over.

I know Fossett has a reputation for being an unusually resourceful person, but there was no reason for him to carry water or food for a local flight, and if he'd walked out to any visible location he'd have made an effort to be found. Still the idea of him being killed in such a routine local flight is mind-boggling to me. If that turns out to be the result, it will go down in history as one of the great ironic deaths, like Gen. George Patton being killed in a traffic accident.

If he's not found soon, dead or alive, I'm going to continue to wonder if he pulled a Sister Aimee.

Counterfit

Sep 12, 2007, 01:41 AM

Still the idea of him being killed in such a routine local flight is mind-boggling to me. If that turns out to be the result, it will go down in history as one of the great ironic deaths, like Gen. George Patton being killed in a traffic accident.

Or Steve Irwin being killed by something OTHER than a crocodile (specifically, a stingray, and not the one with the bowtie).

R.Youden

Sep 12, 2007, 03:41 AM

Or Steve Irwin being killed by something OTHER than a crocodile (specifically, a stingray, and not the one with the bowtie).

Steve Irwin, great guy! But this picture has to be shown:

http://www.laughsend.net/h3k2nai/1157370542stingray.jpg

I know its a bit off topic but what the hell!

MacHipster

Sep 12, 2007, 01:55 PM

Counterfit

Sep 13, 2007, 12:07 AM

What a shame. I am intrigued by Howard Hughes and Steve Fossett and Richard Branson remind me of him. Although it may be considered selfish, I cheer for the rich folk that spend their money on cool exploits and record-breaking stunts.:D

Yeah, just like the space race, the stuff they develop in the course of these feats will probably make it to some sort of consumer product (or something else the average person comes into contact with) eventually.

leekohler

Sep 13, 2007, 03:19 AM

I know Fossett has a reputation for being an unusually resourceful person, but there was no reason for him to carry water or food for a local flight, and if he'd walked out to any visible location he'd have made an effort to be found. Still the idea of him being killed in such a routine local flight is mind-boggling to me. If that turns out to be the result, it will go down in history as one of the great ironic deaths, like Gen. George Patton being killed in a traffic accident.

If he's not found soon, dead or alive, I'm going to continue to wonder if he pulled a Sister Aimee.

IJ- the weird thing about aviation in any of its forms is this- the most experienced people can die doing relatively simple tasks. That's because anything involving aviation is pretty complex already. People get complacent about things they've done over and over. That was one thing that my skydiving instructors drilled into my head every day. Nothing is routine in the air. It's always unpredictable. Just because you've done something a million times and never had a problem, doesn't mean you won't have one.

To drive this home with skydivers, there is something in the training called "relative work". What that means is that one goes up with a parachute and two spares, with the intention to make the main parachute fail and then find a way out of the situation. When I was learning, instructors would have us intentionally go out of control in freefall. You literally have seconds to fix the situation. Your mind works damn fast! But the reality is- you rarely encounter such problems and forget how to deal with them. That could have happened to Steve Fossett. I really hope not though.

IJ Reilly

Sep 13, 2007, 11:46 AM

IJ- the weird thing about aviation in any of its forms is this- the most experienced people can die doing relatively simple tasks. That's because anything involving aviation is pretty complex already. People get complacent about things they've done over and over. That was one thing that my skydiving instructors drilled into my head every day. Nothing is routine in the air. It's always unpredictable. Just because you've done something a million times and never had a problem, doesn't mean you won't have one.

As a pilot, I know about how bad things can happen very quickly, even to experienced people. Still, knowledge, skill and judgement do come into play, as does tolerance for risk. Another factor to consider is that most aviation accidents aren't the result of one mistake or problem, but a chain of mistakes or problems. These kinds of accidents usually happen to people who push beyond their level of competency and don't recognize that they're in trouble quickly enough to get out of it. I've been on that hairy edge a couple of times.

I'm not sure what that says about Steve Fossett, but for all his exploits, he was never a taker of needless chances. From what I understand, he's not the kind of pilot who'd fly into a blind canyon just for the thrill, or simply because he doesn't understand how dangerous it can be.

As you say, anything can happen in aviation. Still, I'm shaking my head over here at the idea that, over a week later, no trace can be found of him. For someone who could hardly have flown more than 100 miles from where he took off, this is just plain strange.

MacHipster

Sep 13, 2007, 12:05 PM

Yeah, just like the space race, the stuff they develop in the course of these feats will probably make it to some sort of consumer product (or something else the average person comes into contact with) eventually.

Oooh! I hadn't even thought that far ahead. Now I'm more excited.:D

leekohler

Sep 14, 2007, 07:00 PM

As a pilot, I know about how bad things can happen very quickly, even to experienced people. Still, knowledge, skill and judgement do come into play, as does tolerance for risk. Another factor to consider is that most aviation accidents aren't the result of one mistake or problem, but a chain of mistakes or problems. These kinds of accidents usually happen to people who push beyond their level of competency and don't recognize that they're in trouble quickly enough to get out of it. I've been on that hairy edge a couple of times.

I'm not sure what that says about Steve Fossett, but for all his exploits, he was never a taker of needless chances. From what I understand, he's not the kind of pilot who'd fly into a blind canyon just for the thrill, or simply because he doesn't understand how dangerous it can be.

As you say, anything can happen in aviation. Still, I'm shaking my head over here at the idea that, over a week later, no trace can be found of him. For someone who could hardly have flown more than 100 miles from where he took off, this is just plain strange.

Ah yes, you're a pilot. I took one look at the pilot training book and thought- OK this isn't for me. :) Good for you for doing it.

Let's hope they find him soon.

IJ Reilly

Sep 14, 2007, 07:14 PM

Ah yes, you're a pilot. I took one look at the pilot training book and thought- OK this isn't for me. :) Good for you for doing it.

Let's hope they find him soon.

And you skydive. I took a look at that once upon a time, and decided to stay inside the airplane.

In fact there's a old joke about that:

Pilot to skydiver: You'd never catch me jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.
Skydiver to pilot: Have you ever flown in a jump plane?

leekohler

Sep 17, 2007, 04:31 PM

In fact there's a old joke about that:

Pilot to skydiver: You'd never catch me jumping out of a perfectly good airplane.
Skydiver to pilot: Have you ever flown in a jump plane?

Haha! Yeah- that's what I usually tell people too. Go up in one of those things and you'll run out the door! :) The ride up is scarier than the jump itself. ;)

TheAnswer

Oct 1, 2008, 01:58 PM

AP (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ijDA5bgxiHlTvS_r-SSjskS1Tq1wD93HRI5O1) is reporting that a hiker may have located items that may be Fossett's in eastern California.

ChrisA

Oct 1, 2008, 02:12 PM

AP (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ijDA5bgxiHlTvS_r-SSjskS1Tq1wD93HRI5O1) is reporting that a hiker may have located items that may be Fossett's in eastern California.

At Mamoth? Did the plan have an autopilot? Could he have fallen asleep or something along those lines. Hard to explain being in California but then being in California would explain why the search did not come up with anything.

IJ Reilly

Oct 1, 2008, 02:13 PM

AP (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ijDA5bgxiHlTvS_r-SSjskS1Tq1wD93HRI5O1) is reporting that a hiker may have located items that may be Fossett's in eastern California.

The article says next to nothing but perhaps at last we can hope for this mystery to be resolved.

At Mamoth? Did the plan have an autopilot? Could he have fallen asleep or something along those lines. Hard to explain being in California but then being in California would explain why the search did not come up with anything.

He was flying out of a private airport in western Nevada so it's not out of the question that he'd have also been in eastern California. Falling asleep? That's entirely out of the question.

TheAnswer

Oct 1, 2008, 02:42 PM

The article says next to nothing but perhaps at last we can hope for this mystery to be resolved.

Yeah. I posted as soon as I heard, so the initial report was a bit sparse.

This story (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26976119/), if true, seems to indicate that it was indeed Fossett. (Google map of the area the hiker was in (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Minaret+Lake&sll=33.779953,-117.979657&sspn=0.015035,0.014012&ie=UTF8&ll=37.659431,-119.158916&spn=0.02864,0.028024&t=p&z=15)).

I know both Nevada and Eastern California are difficult regions to find plane wreckage in, but does anyone more familiar with the search know if this area was part of the search area?

andiwm2003

Oct 1, 2008, 03:59 PM

hm. doesn't that indicate he was alife when he crashed? otherwise the stuff should have been found right next to the plane.

i don't know the mamoth area to well but there is water around and orientation isn't too hard because you can see the mountain ranges. this is really a mystery.

IJ Reilly

Oct 1, 2008, 04:49 PM

No remains, no airplane, just some personal effects. If that's all they find, then this becomes a greater mystery yet.

Gray-Wolf

Oct 1, 2008, 09:32 PM

Those things could have been stolen and dropped there. And the other theory floating around, that he went into hiding because of his debts.

IJ Reilly

Oct 1, 2008, 10:50 PM

Steal $1,000 in small bills and leave them. Yeah, that makes sense. Obviously an act of aerial piracy.

TheAnswer

Oct 2, 2008, 09:24 AM

Looks like they may have found the plane (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE4907G820081002?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews).

andiwm2003

Oct 2, 2008, 09:59 AM

wow, this has all ingredients for a conspiracy theory. usually when you want something to be found you leave money (cash) with it because people pay attention to it.

anyway, it must be nerve wrecking for his family and i hope when they examine his plane (if it is his) then they will have finally closure.

IJ Reilly

Oct 2, 2008, 11:33 AM

Looks like they may have found the plane (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE4907G820081002?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews).

Maybe we'll get some sort of answers now. The elevation reported, 10,000 feet, is near the practical service ceiling for this airplane. The investigators will be able to tell (if nothing else) whether the engine was running when it hit the ground.

arkitect

Oct 2, 2008, 01:02 PM

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7647732.stm#map):
The wreckage of a plane found near the town of Mammoth Lakes in California does belong to missing US adventurer Steve Fossett, officials say.

A number plate confirmed the plane as the Bellanca Super Decathlon owned by the 63-year-old millionaire. No body has yet been found.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45071000/gif/_45071508_fossett3_search_466.gif

andiwm2003

Oct 2, 2008, 02:32 PM

dang, they missed him last year by only a few miles......

IJ Reilly

Oct 2, 2008, 03:09 PM

More detail:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fossett3-2008oct03,0,2394929.story

hexonxonx

Oct 2, 2008, 03:41 PM

Who is Steve Fosset?

EricNau

Oct 2, 2008, 04:30 PM

Who is Steve Fosset?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Fossett

iJohnHenry

Oct 2, 2008, 06:16 PM

Who is Steve Fosset?

You have achieved 68000 status, and yet you know not of Google?? :confused:

:p

hexonxonx

Oct 2, 2008, 06:17 PM

You have achieved 68000 status, and yet you know not of Google?? :confused:

:p

Of course I know about Google. You took my post litterally. I mean it as in who cares who Steve Fossett is.

IJ Reilly

Oct 2, 2008, 06:24 PM

The people who are posting here, all but you, apparently.

iShater

Oct 2, 2008, 06:34 PM

Of course I know about Google. You took my post litterally. I mean it as in who cares who Steve Fossett is.

People who are reading/posting to this thread. If you don't care, move along.

His adventures were actually quite exciting to follow, and it is sad that we lost him.

andiwm2003

Oct 2, 2008, 07:22 PM

Of course I know about Google. You took my post litterally. I mean it as in who cares who Steve Fossett is.

of course is justified to say why care about a millionaire. however he's done some remarkable things, is quite a interesting character and his disappearance is a mystery. he's certainly a more interesting and valuable character than the entire hollywood crowd that we hear about day in and day out.

i kind of wish he's still alive with amnesia in some hospital or so. or he disappeared for tax reasons.

Gray-Wolf

Oct 2, 2008, 07:26 PM

Unless they find some remains at the crash site, don't count him as dead.

TheAnswer

Oct 2, 2008, 07:28 PM

of course is justified to say why care about a millionaire. however he's done some remarkable things, is quite a interesting character and his disappearance is a mystery. he's certainly a more interesting and valuable character than the entire hollywood crowd that we hear about day in and day out.

i kind of wish he's still alive with amnesia in some hospital or so. or he disappeared for tax reasons.

Or maybe he's been kidnapped by Stefano Dimera? :p

(sorry, just caught a little off guard by your distain for the Hollywood crowd quickly followed by two overused Hollywood clichés.)