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Ambrose Chapel
Aug 13, 2003, 11:39 AM
I saw this at This Modern World...couldn't let it pass.

The story: Jesus Castillo worked in a Texas comic book store. He was busted for selling an erotic comic to an undercover officer. These facts have not been disputed: Castillo is an adult. The cop was an adult. The comic was displayed in a separate Adults Only section of the store. The cop was under no compulsion from Castillo to acquire that particular comic.

The Comic Book Legal Defense Fund provided expert witnesses to attest to the artistic and literary qualities of the comic in question. The DA told the jury that none of that mattered, because comic books have "always" been for children and the "adult" comic was therefore obscene by definition. The jury bought the argument and convicted, the trial judge let it stand and, last week, the US Supreme Court declined to review the case.

ahhh...texas!

http://www.thismodernworld.com/

Desertrat
Aug 13, 2003, 02:03 PM
Lord love a duck! Where in Texas, do you know?

Texas has some Bible-belt areas. Abilene; east Texas from around Nacogdoches to up around Tyler...Usually, the good fundamentalists from those areas go to Austin or Dallas to check out the skin flicks and porno stores.

Some east Texas prosecuting attorney got the weeping boohoos after getting caught in an Austin porno store. He went through the whole mea culpa bit, but it didn't save his job. :)

The guy should have tried for a change of venue to Austin, for a guaranteed not-guilty verdict. Of course, the trial would have taken longer, what with the jury taking three days to review that particular comic book, and compare it to others for relative artistic merit.

'Rat

Sun Baked
Aug 13, 2003, 02:19 PM
If Asscroft continues on his current path it'll get worse, they can now focus on nailing people under the federal obscenity laws.U.S. Indicts Porn Sellers, Vowing Extensive Attack (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-fi-obscene8aug08002425,1,1243003.story)

The Justice Department on Thursday charged a North Hollywood wholesaler of adult films with violating federal obscenity laws, launching the first of what it promised would be a wave of criminal cases against purveyors of pornography.

The 10-count federal grand jury indictment against Extreme Associates and its executives, Robert Zicari and Janet Romano of Northridge, raised alarm among adult entertainment companies in the San Fernando Valley, which is considered the capital of the nation's multibillion-dollar pornography industry.

Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft promised upon taking office that he would crack down on the distributors of adult entertainment material such as movies, magazines and Web sites, much as his Reagan administration predecessor Edwin Meese III did in the 1980s.

With the government's antitrust trial against Microsoft Corp. completed and the war on terrorism well underway, Thursday's charges suggest pornography has moved closer to the center of Ashcroft's radar.

[delete to end]
Film Wholesaler Charged With Obscenity (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-080703obscene_lat,1,708205.story)

..."The lack of enforcement of federal obscenity laws during the 1990s has led to a proliferation of obscenity throughout the United States, such as the violent and degrading material charged in this case," said a statement by U.S. Atty. Mary Beth Buchanan, who brought the case to the federal grand jury in Pittsburgh. "Distributors of obscenity may be prosecuted under federal law in any district in the country where products are sold."...

3rdpath
Aug 13, 2003, 03:03 PM
ahhh, texas and the bible belt....

the stories i could tell about east texas and nacogdoches in particular. maybe it was just the 80's but there wasn't a big wild party thrown that didn't have members of prominent religious, legal and political families there doing massive amounts of drugs (and quite a few other things...).

as long as you're in the network, you're ok...but piss someone off and you'll be strung up in no time flat...otherwise the powers that be just arrest the small guys that make good press.

the hypocritical public persona is just a way of life in many circles. it's not right but there ya go.

i miss wilbur mills...

wwworry
Aug 13, 2003, 04:41 PM
You know how the feds busted that arms dealer for trying to sell a surface to air missile? Does anyone else think that since the feds approached the arms dealer on the front end and then set it up with the Russians for them to sell him the missile on the back end it is kind of entrapment. If the same thing happened as a drug deal it would be thrown out as entrapment.

Also what kind of victory is it when both sides of the deal is set up by the feds? I am not condoning the actions of the arms dealer.

Sorry for the off-topicness of it but it's been bugging me.

so does Texas

patrick0brien
Aug 13, 2003, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Sun Baked
If Asscroft continues on his current path it'll get worse, they can now focus on nailing people under the federal obscenity laws.

-Sun Baked

Reminds me of Edwin Meese under Reagan.

mactastic
Aug 13, 2003, 06:04 PM
What about South Park? That's a cartoon specifically for adults.... same with the old Felix the Cat stuff. I don't see how that ruling makes any sense. Sheesh.

MacBandit
Aug 13, 2003, 06:10 PM
That's just bizarrely insane. There's a lot of adult oriented cartoon based media out there and I'm not just talking about pornography. In fact if you think about it the first cartoons like Mickey Mouse were created for adults not kids. It's just a modern notion that cartoons are for kids. When in reality I probably watch more animated films and tv then any kid.

patrick0brien
Aug 14, 2003, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
It's just a modern notion that cartoons are for kids.

-MacBandit

We should show this Judge and Jury "Heavy Metal" - there's a cartoon!

Ambrose Chapel
Aug 14, 2003, 10:27 AM
Rat - it was dallas.

MacBandit
Aug 14, 2003, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-MacBandit

We should show this Judge and Jury "Heavy Metal" - there's a cartoon!

That's just a minor one. Just think about all the others. Akira, Cowboy Bebop, etc. and those are just the main stream well known ones. If you want to get into it there are ones like Vampire Hunter and others.

Ambrose Chapel
Aug 14, 2003, 11:14 AM
or Grave of the Fireflies...

Desertrat
Aug 14, 2003, 04:41 PM
Dallas? Wow! They have a DA up there (Henry Wade? Disremember.) who's meaner than a junkyard dog. Makes Saddam Hussein look like Mother Teresa. He's been around for forty forevers. Having an Attorney General like Ashcroft is probably keeping him awake at night from orgasms.

'Rat

themadchemist
Aug 14, 2003, 09:27 PM
It's a wonder homeland security didn't get in on this action...Because goodness knows this country can't be safe with adult comics flying around.

I think that Texas cops should get back to doing what Texas cops do best: Being hicks and smoking confiscated marijuana...

Jeez, on a matter of principle, this sort of censorship is disgusting. What kind of argument is "They've always been for kids?" Leave it to Texas judges, DAs, and juries to muddle together this idiotic decision, not taking into account the fact that when one leaves the very "All-American" sorts of Superman comics and the like, there are other genres of comics not targeted at or appropriate for children. As for the erotic sort, they aren't for my tastes, but if they are the interest of someone ABOVE 18, it is his/her right to indulge in them.

And someone just mentioned Akira, Vampire Hunter D, etc. Those are perfect examples! Excellent works, literary works, that aren't for little kids but have merit.

It's like saying that because you read novels for school, novels must be meant for children, and every novel should be appropriate for kids. It won't happen and it shouldn't happen. Night, by Wiesel, is too dark for an 8-year-old to read, for example.

Authors should have the right to literary freedom and a means of legal distribution.

Sayhey
Aug 14, 2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by themadchemist
Authors should have the right to literary freedom and a means of legal distribution.

Not in Texas they don't; the US Supreme Court let them get away with it.

SPG
Aug 15, 2003, 12:29 AM
Speaking of cartoons and This Modern World...has anyone checked out his new book The Great Big Book of Tomorrow? It just came out a couple weeks ago and it's quite good.

Ambrose Chapel
Aug 15, 2003, 11:54 AM
Rat - "forty forevers" haha i liked that. i guess any state where the DAs have no moral reservation about sending the mentally handicapped to death row isn't going to have any issues with something as trivial as children's reading materials... :rolleyes:

SPG - is the book good? i've been thinking about picking it up. it's older stuff right?

mcrain
Aug 15, 2003, 04:07 PM
Well, we now live in a country referred to as the "homeland" (strikingly similar to "fatherland"), we kill our own citizens, we start wars, we have a massively wealthy upper class, we encourage people to spy on their neighbors, we've now got a government agency designed to spy on us, and NOW, ON TOP OF THAT, WE'RE GOING TO BE BURNING BOOKS!

I remember people being afraid of 1984 (the book), but it seems to me that we're regressing to around 1938.

(edit) We've closed our borders, we arrest immigrants, and we openly threaten other countries.

I could go on, but it's depressing.

SPG
Aug 15, 2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel
SPG - is the book good? i've been thinking about picking it up. it's older stuff right?

There's some older stuff, but what's a retrospective without older stuff? It's a good read regardless, and I haven't finished it yet so I can't say how much recent stuff is in there.
I highly recomend it, go out and buy it, you won't be dissapointed.

Ambrose Chapel
Aug 17, 2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by SPG
I highly recomend it, go out and buy it, you won't be dissapointed

I think I will...thanks!

Pinto
Aug 17, 2003, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by mcrain
Well, we now live in a country referred to as the "homeland" (strikingly similar to "fatherland"), we kill our own citizens, we start wars, we have a massively wealthy upper class, we encourage people to spy on their neighbors, we've now got a government agency designed to spy on us, and NOW, ON TOP OF THAT, WE'RE GOING TO BE BURNING BOOKS!

I remember people being afraid of 1984 (the book), but it seems to me that we're regressing to around 1938.

(edit) We've closed our borders, we arrest immigrants, and we openly threaten other countries.

I could go on, but it's depressing.

Yeah, welcome to the "Land of the Free" and the "Leader of the Free World"

What a joke

XnavxeMiyyep
Aug 18, 2003, 12:24 AM
What's the deal with "obscenity" anyway? A sixteen year old can legally have sex, but they can't legally look at porn? Just because it's "morally wrong".

cc bcc
Aug 18, 2003, 05:11 AM
We have titties in some tv commercials about shampoos and shower gels, real titties! With real nipples! Even during the day! All you Texans are invited to migrate, just leave your gun arsenal at home ;)

Desertrat
Aug 18, 2003, 08:23 AM
Must not be very good shower gel, if ya gotta show titties to sell it.

Ya gotta halfway feel sorry for some little ol' gal if the only way she can get attention is to show her titties. What, she wakes up, sez, "Good morning!" and is through for the day?

:D, 'Rat

SPG
Aug 18, 2003, 12:08 PM
Nudity isn't such a big deal in most cultures. You have to remember who came over, or got kicked out of England depending on how you look at it. The Puritans were too uptight for England and now there descendents have this wacky notion of "Christian morals" which is more like Victorian England stick in the mud perverted morality that they try to force on everyone else so that there is less temptation for themselves. Lighten up everybody.

patrick0brien
Aug 18, 2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by SPG
Nudity isn't such a big deal in most cultures. You have to remember who came over, or got kicked out of England depending on how you look at it. The Puritans were too uptight for England and now there descendents have this wacky notion of "Christian morals" which is more like Victorian England stick in the mud perverted morality that they try to force on everyone else so that there is less temptation for themselves. Lighten up everybody.

-SPG

In the immortal words of Apu Nahasapeemapetilon "Theres a point on top of your head."

Well wrapped, and very true. The U.S. is on its way, and I for one, am glad - we spent too much energy at monitoring others opinions, and not of the real work that needs to be done.

Desertrat
Aug 18, 2003, 06:37 PM
When you get away from the judge's views, and go to hollering "Lighten up" at the posters here, some thinking might be in order.

Some porno is absolutely harmless, IMO. Some is degrading to all particpants, and to the viewer.

Same sort of thing with sex in general. Some is great, with mutual respect and all the usual good words; some can easily be degrading to one or both of those involved. (Or some of the group, if that's what floats your boat.)

'Rat

SPG
Aug 19, 2003, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by Desertrat
When you get away from the judge's views, and go to hollering "Lighten up" at the posters here, some thinking might be in order.


I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant, or more likely I wasn't very clear in my statement. Let me attempt to clarify...
The US still has a strong influence inherited from it's Puritan settlers which took a dissaproving view on nudity and any vices. Our attorney general ashcroft is very conservative, in fact regressive is more appropriate as a description. It is widely reported that his sect of his church believes that dancing is a sin. If dancing is a sin, then looking at line drawings representing nudity is a crime. These people misstake prudishness for morality and then when they have a hard time avoiding the same urges they call vices they try to dictate through law what the rest of us can do so as to minimize their exposure to temptation...it is to them that I say Lighten the F### up!

Desertrat
Aug 19, 2003, 07:54 AM
Well, Amen to that. I don't have a lot of use for any fundamentalist type; they're as bad as political ideologues. Control freaks.

For years, the Baptists and the bootleggers kept Texas from having "liquor by the drink". The situation led to as many jokes in that arena as there are Aggie jokes.

The anti-porn, the anti-booze and the anti-gun weirdlies always predict some form of blood in the streets if personal liberty is increased. There is that occasional locale or state where some increase in liberty occurs, yet none of the predictions come to pass. Doesn't mean they can learn from direct observation, however; they just move on to the next arena with their dire predictions...

'Rat