PDA

View Full Version : How the G5 Shouda! been


adamfilip
Aug 13, 2003, 07:20 PM
here is my Photoshop Hack Job of how i think the g5 should have been brought out.


i didnt change the height of the case.
im sure they could make one heat sink thats larger that could cool both processors

http://www.filipowicz.ca/supag5.jpg

MrMacMan
Aug 13, 2003, 07:54 PM
Hmm looks good, but remember it had to make sense *heat* wise, not style wise.

:p

Yeah I mean it looks better but do you want even MORE fans

:eek:

Rezet
Aug 13, 2003, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
Hmm looks good, but remember it had to make sense *heat* wise, not style wise.

:p

Yeah I mean it looks better but do you want even MORE fans

:eek:

HUH? We really could use 2 optical drives instead of one.

Mr. MacPhisto
Aug 13, 2003, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by adamfilip
here is my Photoshop Hack Job of how i think the g5 should have been brought out.


i didnt change the height of the case.
im sure they could make one heat sink thats larger that could cool both processors



I'm not sure, I think Apple knew what they were doing. While they likely could have made another optical bay available, I think they decided to make the machine ultra-quiet, especially as compared to other high-end machines (Xeons, Itaniums, Unix workstations).

I also don't see the need for another optical drive bay anyways. It has become so easy to add a very fast external drive via firewire and have more versatility in doing so. In my experience, I 've never found any use for dual optical drives, even though I've built machines that feature them. I usually end up copying images to my hard drive anyways and, whenever I've done CD-to-CD copies I often have gotten buffer underruns.

I think the only thing I'd improve upon is the PCI-X slots - it'd be nice to have 5 instead of 3, but there are external solutions for that as well.

bennetsaysargh
Aug 13, 2003, 08:31 PM
i wish the G5s had 2 optical drives, but maybe in later revisions it will.

Bear
Aug 13, 2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
i wish the G5s had 2 optical drives, but maybe in later revisions it will.
I suspect Apple dropped the dual optical drives is that very few people actually ordered a system that way.

I do have a dual optical setup currently and it has saved me a fair bit of time.

coolsoldier
Aug 13, 2003, 08:49 PM
I used to have a computer with dual optical drives, but it always caused me more trouble than it was worth, and so I always ended up copying stuff to the hard drive first anyway. Maybe for other stuff besides copying it might be useful, but I can't think of anything useful right now that you could do with it.

idea_hamster
Aug 13, 2003, 09:16 PM
Of course, this seems to imply that there are four hard drives :) for a whopping 1TB for the home user. Whoa.

WannabeSQ
Aug 13, 2003, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Bear
I suspect Apple dropped the dual optical drives is that very few people actually ordered a system that way.

I do have a dual optical setup currently and it has saved me a fair bit of time.

that is their fatal mistake. They assumed that since not many people ordered 2 optical drives, that not many people wanted 2 optical drives. If I bought a MDD model (almost did) I most definately would NOT have gotten 2 optical drives from apple, as they simply charge way too much. Also, their options were very lacking. I would ideally like a superdrive and a 52x CD-RW (hell, a 32x would be fine) I dont need to watch a DVD on my computer while I burn a DVD. I use my home theater DVD player for that. But oh well, Firewire is a good compromise.

I think someone will come out with a firewire enclosure that fits on top of the G5 like that one that came out when the first G4 came out with no floppy drive, it had a 3.5" ATAPI bay via USB as well as a USB hub i believe. A firewire one with an optical bay and maybe even a HD bay would be an awesome add on. Doubly awesome if it could be used on top or on bottom between the handles, so power users could get 2 of them and not take up excess space. thats just my wishful thinking tho.

bennetsaysargh
Aug 13, 2003, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by WannabeSQ

I think someone will come out with a firewire enclosure that fits on top of the G5 like that one that came out when the first G4 came out with no floppy drive, it had a 3.5" ATAPI bay via USB as well as a USB hub i believe. A firewire one with an optical bay and maybe even a HD bay would be an awesome add on. Doubly awesome if it could be used on top or on bottom between the handles, so power users could get 2 of them and not take up excess space. thats just my wishful thinking tho.
that would be awesome! it would be really cool if they could do that for all of the computers in their product line somehow.

i have an idea for a 3rd party company to make a battery for the powerbooks that not only goes in the place of the powerbook battery, but also somehow covers the whole bottom to make the battery life a lot longer. is that possible? sorry, i've been running around all day:p

Powerbook G5
Aug 13, 2003, 09:41 PM
I never really cared about having two optical drives...but having more PCI-X and more HD to bring the G5 up to 1 TB would be sweet!

rainman::|:|
Aug 13, 2003, 09:50 PM
You know how much heat an optical drive can kick off when it gets going? there's no way... Remember that heat is still conducted between the partitions, they're not entirely independent... and this would affect airflow signifigantly as well...

pnw

Mr. Anderson
Aug 13, 2003, 10:01 PM
I think that Apple's going with the single optical drive on purpose - it would be redundant and if you wanted one with higher burn times, get an external and connect it to the FW800 port. Makes more sense that way, keeps the thing cooler, etc.

I'd rather see more HD space :D

D

bennetsaysargh
Aug 13, 2003, 10:04 PM
well i forgot that optical drives get hot. then i realized whenever i turn on my FW burner, there is the sound of a million fans that is really loud. that's why i burn as little as possible:p

NavyIntel007
Aug 13, 2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by WannabeSQ
that is their fatal mistake. They assumed that since not many people ordered 2 optical drives, that not many people wanted 2 optical drives. If I bought a MDD model (almost did) I most definately would NOT have gotten 2 optical drives from apple, as they simply charge way too much. Also, their options were very lacking. I would ideally like a superdrive and a 52x CD-RW (hell, a 32x would be fine) I dont need to watch a DVD on my computer while I burn a DVD. I use my home theater DVD player for that. But oh well, Firewire is a good compromise.

I think someone will come out with a firewire enclosure that fits on top of the G5 like that one that came out when the first G4 came out with no floppy drive, it had a 3.5" ATAPI bay via USB as well as a USB hub i believe. A firewire one with an optical bay and maybe even a HD bay would be an awesome add on. Doubly awesome if it could be used on top or on bottom between the handles, so power users could get 2 of them and not take up excess space. thats just my wishful thinking tho.

This is exactly why apple did NOT design it this way. Why should they spend the extra money designing an extra bay, putting in a 10th fan and more sensors for you to go out and buy a third party drive? Tell you what, why don't YOU just go buy an external burner and stick it right on top between the handle and the case? If you get one with an aluminum case, you might never know the difference.

As for the extra storage. There would have to be an extra SATA controller and two more pin outs. How many people actually buy four drives from Apple? Not that many. And with new drives hitting the 500 GB mark these days, it would be easy to put a terabyte in with only two drive bays. If you'd like more than that, get a fiber channel card and buy an XServe RAID. Apple probably wants you not to buy the Powermac if you want a server with lots of storage. That's why there is an Xserve (ideally when it too has a G5).

Problem is you people cry about the price, yet complain when it doesn't have this or that... if it had everything you wanted, it would be even more expensive! SO QUIT CRYING ABOUT IT!

snahabed
Aug 14, 2003, 11:40 AM
I fail to understand why people are opposed to a FW external drive. I have one and it is fantastic. Plus, it will outlast my CPU and I can use it with my Powerbook, and my friends can use it with their PC laptops with firewire cards.

I would just like more hard drive space... just because I would LOVE for space to be so cheap that I could just mount disc images of my DVD's and have uncompressed AIFFs in iTunes... and never have to deal with discs again! As it stands, I cannot bear to re-rip into AAC, knowing that when the successor comes out, I'll have to re-rip again... My mentality now is, wait for a few years when a 10TB hard drive is a reality :)

So yeah, the more hard drive, the better, but another internal optical? Waste of space and money.

patrick0brien
Aug 14, 2003, 11:46 AM
-Hmm

I count 5 heat zones in that design - don't forget the Power supply zone in the base.

I've never understood the need for two internal optical drives. Heck! They were introduced in Macs only last year.

Now before anyone feels affronted, I want to point out the language of that sentence - think like an attorney. I said "need" - do you really have a "need" for two "internal" opticals? Or is it just a nice-to-have. I'll let you answer that for yourself - not my place there.

Methinks there are bigger fish to fry.

macphoria
Aug 14, 2003, 11:51 AM
I think external optical drives are cheap enough so that if you really do need second optical drive, you can just get an external one.

I really don't see the point of having two optical drives. Only instance I can think of is burning a CD and watching DVD at the same time or something.

bennetsaysargh
Aug 14, 2003, 11:52 AM
it's not necessary, but it's kinda cool to have. although you do feel stupid when you can't remember which is the superdrive:p
my PC friend doesn' have a superdrive, but has 2 cd drives. one is jjst CDROM and the other is DVD/CDRW. always puts the blank in the CDROM one.:p

VIREBEL661
Aug 14, 2003, 11:59 AM
Dual optical drives and an additional (or two?) PCI slot... Just a thought, but wait for Rev. B! This sort of thing may be a reality... It's important they got this out the door in the first place...

me hate windows
Aug 14, 2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by coolsoldier
I used to have a computer with dual optical drives, but it always caused me more trouble than it was worth, and so I always ended up copying stuff to the hard drive first anyway. Maybe for other stuff besides copying it might be useful, but I can't think of anything useful right now that you could do with it.

One good thing was to put in a CD-RW drive that burned faster than the Superdrive burns CD's.

NavyIntel007
Aug 14, 2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by me hate windows
One good thing was to put in a CD-RW drive that burned faster than the Superdrive burns CD's.

And again... buy an external. maybe Apple should have put a firewire port on the top of the machine so you all wouldn't complain about cables... wait what am I saying? Mac users complain about everything!

Daveman Deluxe
Aug 14, 2003, 04:58 PM
I never really thought it was all that important to have two optical drives. It just seems like an unnecessary cost. How often do you really need to duplicate a CD anyway?

daveg5
Aug 14, 2003, 05:09 PM
as the g5 chip gets smaller and cooler this will happen probably by summer, they may even add better handles and more pleaseing front end.
i love two drives for duplicting cds dvds, coping files, and with newer software maybe writing 2 cds or dvds at once may be possible.
burning a cd while watching a dvd, the superdrive has a slow cd burn speed, you can pick up at light on 52*32*52 for $50 the g5 is so fast might as well get the fastest cdrw, right?. and when faster dvd r rwritables come out next year or the blue lasers disc, you can keep your combo or superdrive and just add the newer technology without external cases and wires and powerbricks. so for me imho 2 optical drive bays should be the minimum

NavyIntel007
Aug 14, 2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
I never really thought it was all that important to have two optical drives. It just seems like an unnecessary cost. How often do you really need to duplicate a CD anyway?

Dual drives were only important when they didn't make a combo DVD/CD-R burner. Now we have DVD burners that do it all. And what's the difference between 32X and 52X... 10 seconds?

daveg5
Aug 14, 2003, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
that would be awesome! it would be really cool if they could do that for all of the computers in their product line somehow.

i have an idea for a 3rd party company to make a battery for the powerbooks that not only goes in the place of the powerbook battery, but also somehow covers the whole bottom to make the battery life a lot longer. is that possible? sorry, i've been running around all day:p
if it could give and get power thru the firewire port that would be awesome

daveg5
Aug 14, 2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by paulwhannel
You know how much heat an optical drive can kick off when it gets going? there's no way... Remember that heat is still conducted between the partitions, they're not entirely independent... and this would affect airflow signifigantly as well...

pnw
may biege g3 has 2 optocal drive a zip and floppy and 2 hardrives and all pci slots filled and is stable and relatively cool and quiet with just 2 fans

daveg5
Aug 14, 2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by snahabed
I fail to understand why people are opposed to a FW external drive. I have one and it is fantastic. Plus, it will outlast my CPU and I can use it with my Powerbook, and my friends can use it with their PC laptops with firewire cards.

I would just like more hard drive space... just because I would LOVE for space to be so cheap that I could just mount disc images of my DVD's and have uncompressed AIFFs in iTunes... and never have to deal with discs again! As it stands, I cannot bear to re-rip into AAC, knowing that when the successor comes out, I'll have to re-rip again... My mentality now is, wait for a few years when a 10TB hard drive is a reality :)
we are not opposed towers are meant to have everything in one place as far as drives are concerened , right know the bpowermacs only have one more hard drive then an imac, and the same opticle drives it was 2 optical and 4 hard, so people should be upset as firewire devices are as much as a hundred dollars more per item. then thiers cable clutter and extra power cords. not only that 4 hard drive 4 10000 raptors or 4 300 GB drives in one place will add more speed or storage to the machine, and 2 optical drives makes burning a cd while watching a dvd possible along with a host of other time saving productive things.

So yeah, the more hard drive, the better, but another internal optical? Waste of space and money.

daveg5
Aug 14, 2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-Hmm

I count 5 heat zones in that design - don't forget the Power supply zone in the base.

I've never understood the need for two internal optical drives. Heck! They were introduced in Macs only last year.

Now before anyone feels affronted, I want to point out the language of that sentence - think like an attorney. I said "need" - do you really have a "need" for two "internal" opticals? Or is it just a nice-to-have. I'll let you answer that for yourself - not my place there.

Methinks there are bigger fish to fry. dont forget the older powermacs with 4 51/4 bays and enought room and power for 6 or more drives and 6 pci slots, easy open case

junior
Aug 14, 2003, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Dual drives were only important when they didn't make a combo DVD/CD-R burner. Now we have DVD burners that do it all. And what's the difference between 32X and 52X... 10 seconds?

Tell us all the incredible equation you used to get this 10 second theory.:rolleyes:

AngryAngel
Aug 14, 2003, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Dual drives were only important when they didn't make a combo DVD/CD-R burner. Now we have DVD burners that do it all. And what's the difference between 32X and 52X... 10 seconds?

I don't care what the difference between 32x and 52x is, because the 4x SuperDrive in the G5 is a 16x CD-R burner.

patrick0brien
Aug 14, 2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
And what's the difference between 32X and 52X... 10 seconds?

-NavyIntel007

And I find too often that burning an audio disk at Maximum speed too often causes it to be unplayable in some CD players. Yes, this is due to the media, but I'm not going ut of my way to find 32x rated CD-R's and pay more for them so that I can shave 12 minutes off of my 15 minute burn time at 4x. I just don't need it that quickly.

To me, expending that much energy for an incremental improvement is like standing in front of the microwave yelling "Faster! Faster!" - am I really that impatient?

NavyIntel007
Aug 14, 2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by junior
Tell us all the incredible equation you used to get this 10 second theory.:rolleyes:

Oh I'm sorry a whole 30 seconds for a 60 minute disk... Good lord... if you can't wait a whole 30 seconds then maybe you need to lay off the speed for a while.

edit: as for the 5 PCI slots I'm sure Apple did some market research and found that many Apple users only use three of those four or five they had on their old G4's. They probably also found that people were either not putting more than two drives in (and with storage on its way upward there's really no reason to have more) or installing a second disk drive (either that or buying third party which apple makes $0 on). So why spend the extra money and have to charge more for extra slots, sensors and fans that people just won't ever use.

You have 8GB of RAM!!!! and the unicorn, the elanore... The G5 and yet you still aren't happy!?!?!!?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

junior
Aug 14, 2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Oh I'm sorry a whole 30 seconds for a 60 minute disk... Good lord... if you can't wait a whole 30 seconds then maybe you need to lay off the speed for a while.

Aaah, using a G5, and with specs for CDR suggesting that it writes nearlyv twice as fast than a 32x, I'm willing to bet almost anything with you that it will save a lot more than the 30 seconds you feel it saves for a 60 minute disk, Let's not be rediculous.

NavyIntel007
Aug 14, 2003, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-NavyIntel007

And I find too often that burning an audio disk at Maximum speed too often causes it to be unplayable in some CD players. Yes, this is due to the media, but I'm not going ut of my way to find 32x rated CD-R's and pay more for them so that I can shave 12 minutes off of my 15 minute burn time at 4x. I just don't need it that quickly.

To me, expending that much energy for an incremental improvement is like standing in front of the microwave yelling "Faster! Faster!" - am I really that impatient?

Exactly... I used to have a 4X burner in my PC. That was hot stuff to me since my parents PC had a 1X burner. I bought an external 12X for my ibook in 01. and now my hacked 12" powerbook has a 16X. People don't get the fact that the difference between 12X and 16X is way bigger than the difference between 32X and 52X. I swear even if Apple gave them two cd drive bays and 4 hard drives they'd still complain about something.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

NavyIntel007
Aug 14, 2003, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by junior
Aaah, using a G5, and with specs for CDR suggesting that it writes nearlyv twice as fast than a 32x, I'm willing to bet almost anything with you that it will save a lot more than the 30 seconds you feel it saves for a 60 minute disk, Let's not be rediculous.

No you really don't...

a 1x drive burns 60 minutes in 60 minutes
a 2x drive burns 60 minutes in 30 minutes
...
a 32x drive burns 60 minutes in 1.88 minutes
...
a 52x drive burns 60 minutes in 1.15 minutes

It's really simple math actually you take 60 and divide it by 52 and walla...

Oh... I guess 14 seconds is a lot more than 30 seconds.... Geez how could anyone wait for 44 seconds... :rolleyes:

edit: of course those burn times are all ideal speeds... thats the max they go...

Oh and It's really fun when the disk explodes in your 52x drive... all for 44 seconds.

junior
Aug 14, 2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
No you really don't...

a 1x drive burns 60 minutes in 60 minutes
a 2x drive burns 60 minutes in 30 minutes
...
a 32x drive burns 60 minutes in 1.88 minutes
...
a 52x drive burns 60 minutes in 1.15 minutes

It's really simple math actually you take 60 and divide it by 52 and walla...

Oh... I guess 14 seconds is a lot more than 30 seconds.... Geez how could anyone wait for 44 seconds... :rolleyes:

edit: of course those burn times are all ideal speeds... thats the max they go...

Oh and It's really fun when the disk explodes in your 52x drive... all for 44 seconds.



Okay, I see your point. But just to be picky, it's a diference of 1 minute 13 seconds, not 44 seconds. Could be usefull if you were catching a train.:)

NavyIntel007
Aug 14, 2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by junior
Okay, I see your point. But just to be picky, it's a diference of 1 minute 13 seconds, not 44 seconds. Could be usefull if you were catching a train.:)

Actually you're wrong again.

See that would be 0.73 minutes or 73% of a minute... also known as 44 seconds.

That might be useful in case you go skydiving :rolleyes: :mad: :cool:

junior
Aug 14, 2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Actually you're wrong again.

See that would be 0.73 minutes or 73% of a minute... also known as 44 seconds.

That might be useful in case you go skydiving :rolleyes: :mad: :cool:

I knew I should have concentrated in those maths lessons back in primary school.

NavyIntel007
Aug 14, 2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by junior
I knew I should have concentrated in those maths lessons back in primary school.

apparently.

daveg5
Aug 15, 2003, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Oh I'm sorry a whole 30 seconds for a 60 minute disk... Good lord... if you can't wait a whole 30 seconds then maybe you need to lay off the speed for a while.

edit: as for the 5 PCI slots I'm sure Apple did some market research and found that many Apple users only use three of those four or five they had on their old G4's. They probably also found that people were either not putting more than two drives in (and with storage on its way upward there's really no reason to have more) or installing a second disk drive (either that or buying third party which apple makes $0 on). So why spend the extra money and have to charge more for extra slots, sensors and fans that people just won't ever use.

You have 8GB of RAM!!!! and the unicorn, the elanore... The G5 and yet you still aren't happy!?!?!!?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

daveg5
Aug 15, 2003, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by daveg5
using that theory apple should limit ram to 2-4GB since most people wont even use that and 1GB chips are so high, make the agp 4x since no cpu can even saturate that yet, why not one hard drive, with the sizes now why have 2, who uses digtal sound out anyway not many so take that off too.

daveg5
Aug 15, 2003, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by junior
Okay, I see your point. But just to be picky, it's a diference of 1 minute 13 seconds, not 44 seconds. Could be usefull if you were catching a train.:)
all fast cd drives 32x and up start at 24x or so and sometimes 16x then 20-24-32-40-44-48 and so forth and slowly work thier way up to high speed, pausing along the way with the buffer under run protection. it does not scale linearly like they did in the 1-16x days anymore.
it is true cds made at slower speed realtime 1x-4x are usually of higher quality with less errors
www.cdrinfo.com

patrick0brien
Aug 15, 2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by daveg5
using that theory apple should limit ram to 2-4GB since most people wont even use that and 1GB chips are so high, make the agp 4x since no cpu can even saturate that yet, why not one hard drive, with the sizes now why have 2, who uses digtal sound out anyway not many so take that off too.

-daveg5

I'm afraid I have to take issue with the logic of dragging these system aspects into this discussion.

These aspects you use aren't relevant to the current discussion flavor of CD-R speeds for one simple reason. One is only affected by CD-R burn speeds when one is burning - one is affected by RAM, HD, and AGP as those are used the entire time the time the machine is up.

rhpenguin
Aug 15, 2003, 12:31 PM
You know what? i like the way that the G5 looks inside with individual fans for the processors. Kinda gives it the appearance of like a dual exhaust on a car. MORE POWER!!!! grunt grunt grunt!

SLJ
Aug 16, 2003, 12:17 AM
dumping the old technologies and pushing the new standard is a good move from Apple. Opitcal drive not just hot... it is noisy, my Pioneer 16x DVD-Rom is so loud... I use my SONY CDRW as a reader instead. One optical is enough... PCI slots... hmm, I wonder If i could use all 3 of it.. but I want more HDD bay for sure!

but I llike the G5 the way it is... enough grunt to do work and leisure

adamfilip
Aug 16, 2003, 12:38 AM
even tho i made that pic.

i dont thinks its really necesary to have dual optical drives and 4 internal hard drives

but i do think that the g5 should have come with built in Hardware Serial ATA RAid support. and that the Superdrive was connected via Serial ATA like the hard drives but it uses the same parallel ide cable as the g4 (pretty sure im right about this.. hope not tho)

i think that Bluetooth and Airport Extreme should be built into the motherboard. and come standard on every mac. especuially for the price of the hardware.

also looking at my mock up. i think they didnt need to make the g5 so tall.

here is how i think the dual 2ghz should be configured for the 2999 USD apple is asking

Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
1GHz frontside bus
512K L2 cache/processor
1024MB DDR400 128-bit SDRAM
Expandable to 8GB SDRAM
250GB Serial ATA with 8mb Buffer
SuperDrive Serial ATA (upgraded to burn CDr's at 32x and have full DVD +/- & DVD RW +/- support)
Three PCI-X Slots
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (All In Wonder!)
128MB DDR video memory
56K internal modem
Bluetooth and Airport Extreme Built in.
New Backlit Pro keyboard with built in Ipod Dock! and memory card reader (okay im asking alot i know)
panther final. OSX 10.3

theres my beef..
:cool:

Rezet
Aug 16, 2003, 01:45 AM
All Wrong! This is what G5 Is supposed to look like.
Little paint brush work goes a long way ehh?