Apple:18,000 employee's, Microsoft:76,000...Where does the manpower go?

[beer.coffee]

Ok, question. What does Microsoft do with its extra 58,000 employee's?

I have Vista, yet i fail to see any real difference between it and XP. Is this all they have been working on for the past five years? Sure, they have Office as well, but again it's just another reiteration of an old concept with a few extra add-on's like Vista.

Now compare it to Apple. New version of the OS X every few years, with features that are actually useful. It also has a constantly evolving line of hardware which is updated again very frequently.


So what exactly do these extra employee's do? I just dont get it....

[bartelby]

It takes a lot of coders to create Bloatware!

[edesignuk]

Microsoft are a far far bigger company serving many many more millions of people. They have many many more products to update and support.

:rolleyes:

[netdog]

I think you underestimate--

1) What is required to create an OS that is backward compatible to legacy systems -- like DOS, Win 3.1, Win95, etc.

2) What is required in terms of sales and marketing for a company that works directly with many large multinationals, governments, universities and other institutions.

3) What is required to provide support for the operating system that is running on 9x% of the world's computers

4) What is required to create software and drivers to run on an open platform. Apple has a huge advantage in that it creates software for a closed platform of their own making.

[beer.coffee]

Hey, i'm just a typical 22 year old consumer...I dont have any real knowledge about the computer industry at all.

To me Microsoft is just Windows and Office. I never knew Microsoft actually even provided support...any time that i have needed help with something i have always been linked to some online support page.

And from what I can see, Windows and Office havent changed a bit since Win98 and whatever office was back in '96.

I'm not a hater....just curious.

[Slumbercub]

Not only that. I understand that Vista cost approximately $10billion and 5 years to develop. I am not being funny but with that sort of resources a company should be able to write an OS from scratch yet alone update an existing version with what is little more than a fancy new GUI and some bug fixes and still do a better job. :rolleyes:

[edesignuk]

There are many, may more products other than Office and Windows, especially in the enterprise market.

To say that nothing has changed from '98 or '96 is just plain ridiculous.

[Eric Lewis]

the 50,000 are all working on Zune 2! and that big a$$ table

and the other 6,00windows operating(whats it called again?)

[fishkorp]

they need an OS to work with ALL hardware, Apple needs an OS to work with only specific hardware. they have an OS with millions and millions of users, not to mention 10+ years of OS versions still getting minimal support, in a ton of different languages, in many, many various server and workstation forms. plus they have apps like Office, Visual Studio, Exchange, SQL Server, etc. factor in their gaming division, they make quite a few games. then there's the Xbox unit, the Zune unit, the Mac Business Unit, the group that makes keyboards and other hardware (getting back into making gaming peripherals I think). they have the Windows Mobile people, the Windows embedded people. the groups that work on the IPTV stuff. plus all their R&D folks working on future products we know nothing about. MS is a heck of a lot more than Windows and Office. they do so much more than Apple in the enterprise market. Apple is a small fish compared to the whale that is MS in terms of size and product line.

[Cromulent]

Hey, i'm just a typical 22 year old consumer...I dont have any real knowledge about the computer industry at all.

To me Microsoft is just Windows and Office. I never knew Microsoft actually even provided support...any time that i have needed help with something i have always been linked to some online support page.

And from what I can see, Windows and Office havent changed a bit since Win98 and whatever office was back in '96.

I'm not a hater....just curious.

Microsoft make at least the following products :

Office
Windows
Windows Server
SQL Server
E-mail Server
IIS
Visual Studio
Xbox 360
Shed loads of games
Windows Mobile
MSN and releted technologies
Hotmail
Zune

[jessica.]

Two words:
Ass covering.

[edesignuk]

Two words:
Ass covering.meaning? :confused:

[Cromulent]

Just to give you an even better idea this a list of just their server products :

http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/default.aspx?view=22&pcid=cd1daedd-9465-4aef-a7bf-8f5cf09a4dc0

[Queso]

Even if you're just taking the OS section of each business, the easy answer is that Windows in all its variants is developed in house by Microsoft, whereas OSX isn't completely an Apple product. OSX depends on many open source projects, the inclusion of each saving Apple form having to hire extra developers.

[Fearless Leader]

Two words:
Ass covering.

meaning? :confused:

they make clothing now.

anyways, I respect Microsoft they service 8x to 9x percent of all computers on the planet. They must have done some things right.

Apple hasn't done anything as gargantuan as vista since 9.x to OS X. they don't own giant search engine, they don't make a gaming console.

And I hate it when people say Vista was just a facelift of xp, its not there are a lot of new and updated code in there.

[mkrishnan]

they make clothing now.

Naw, they were making clothing in the day too. :)

http://static.flickr.com/76/216956348_31024e7c4d.jpg

MS does have many, many lines of business. And they do far more B2B work, which inherently requires more staff because of the customer-facing responsibilities that any supplier or technology provider incurs when dealing with large corporations. I'm not saying Apple's development team isn't more efficient (I think it is), but that's not the whole explanation of why MS has a workforce the size it does.

[dcv]

Well somebody's got to program that damn paperclip thing and all those annoying popup balloons... :rolleyes:

[beer.coffee]

And I hate it when people say Vista was just a facelift of xp, its not there are a lot of new and updated code in there.

I'm not trying to be a idiot here....but what is supposed to have changed? Our old XP machine seems to work better than the new one with Vista.

[The Stig]

Ok, question. What does Microsoft do with its extra 58,000 employee's?

I'd assume they have them working on something... If not... I think I'm going to get a job with Microsoft!

TS

[liketom]

it's not the 58,000 employee's that i worried about it's the Monkey running the show that scares me

[stoid]

it's not the 58,000 employee's that i worried about it's the Monkey running the show that scares me

Hey, no reason to bring the US government into this, we're talking about Microsoft.

The truth is that even with Apple's recent increase in products, they still are no where near the number of products and services Microsoft offers.

[Queso]

Hey, no reason to bring the US government into this, we're talking about Microsoft.
The sad thing is, Microsoft would probably be better run with a monkey in charge, since the law of averages means it'll make the occasional right decision. Ballmer is handicapped by believing he understands what the tech industry is about and where it's going, which he clearly doesn't.

[seashellz]

the answer is: 75% of MS software engineers are Chimpanzees!
Paid with banannas!

Thats the only explanation I can figure, when they have Billions in the bank, and practically more employees than there are troops in Iraq (dont get me started) yet they still come out with UNBELIEVABLY bad software that needs constant attending to, and is ever so vulnerable to outside attacks.

Hopefully, they get 2-15 min breaks a day for 'grooming'

[PlaceofDis]

i've heard that there is a lot of poor management at microsoft, and with ballmer being their CEO i can see that. he seems rather unorganized himself.

but everyone is correct that Microsoft does have a lot of products. but i think apple does too. i just think the management is different at each.

[crees!]

Microsoft make at least the following products :

Office
Windows
Windows Server
SQL Server
E-mail Server
IIS
Visual Studio
Xbox 360
Shed loads of games
Windows Mobile
MSN and releted technologies
Hotmail
Zune

And Surface ;)

[wheezy]

4) What is required to create software and drivers to run on an open platform. Apple has a huge advantage in that it creates software for a closed platform of their own making.

Maybe I don't understand completely, but I think Apple actually has the short end of the stick on this. As far as I can figure, it's up to the hardware manufacturer to make their drivers work with Windows, not vice-versa. And, factor in the much better plug and play experience on a Mac, and Apple seems to be working harder on the driver software than Microsoft.

I'm pretty sure the same IE7 mentalitly (no, you change YOUR standards to work with our product) carries across the board in the Windows software environment.

Apple makes a LOT of products as well, has lots of Software titles, and builds more hardware than Microsoft does. There are other areas that Microsoft is in that Apple isn't, but when you compare what they DO have in common, it would be interesting to see who has more people resource.

[Cromulent]

Maybe I don't understand completely, but I think Apple actually has the short end of the stick on this. As far as I can figure, it's up to the hardware manufacturer to make their drivers work with Windows, not vice-versa. And, factor in the much better plug and play experience on a Mac, and Apple seems to be working harder on the driver software than Microsoft.

I'm pretty sure the same IE7 mentalitly (no, you change YOUR standards to work with our product) carries across the board in the Windows software environment.

Apple makes a LOT of products as well, has lots of Software titles, and builds more hardware than Microsoft does. There are other areas that Microsoft is in that Apple isn't, but when you compare what they DO have in common, it would be interesting to see who has more people resource.

Well Microsoft has a much larger presence in the enterprise market than Apple. They also beat them hands down in the game industry as well as the business side of things.

The only area that Apple beat Microsoft is the media sector really. Video, audio and photos.

[clevin]

Apple makes a LOT of products as well, has lots of Software titles, and builds more hardware than Microsoft does. There are other areas that Microsoft is in that Apple isn't, but when you compare what they DO have in common, it would be interesting to see who has more people resource.

hehe, don't forget apple didn't really work too much,
computers? all parts made by others
iPods? just do design
softwares(include the drivers you mentioned)? mostly copied open source codes
new techlonogies? bought from other small companies

I mean, apple bascially is a design +assemble center. for what apple does, Im not sure if it actually needs so many people at all.

[wheezy]

hehe, don't forget apple didn't really work too much,
computers? all parts made by others
iPods? just do design
softwares(include the drivers you mentioned)? mostly copied open source codes
new techlonogies? bought from other small companies

I mean, apple bascially is a design +assemble center. for what apple does, Im not sure if it actually needs so many people at all.

Touche... or whatever that word is :) good reply.

[Sean Dempsey]

at least 10,000 of them install the red LED lights in the xbox 360.