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iPod Best iPod (whatever) ever...headphones

H

hsotnicaM

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 19, 2007
118
0
If this is such a great improvement, why include the not-so-great-quality headphones? Can they not find a better performing headphone? What's the sense in paying $100s for an iPod and not get decent frequency range. So I spend $199+ on an iPod (whatever) and then have to pay another $XX for headphones that go below 20 Hz?
How about not worrying about 160GB drive that could hold 40,000 songs (2,666 hours/111 days/almost four months of music!!) and research headphones for a while or at least find a company to joint venture with.
 
lofight

lofight

macrumors 68000
Jun 16, 2007
1,954
2
the ipod earbuds are not that bad, they're just not that good, and as you can see apple is not really experienced in the headphone business, and have your ever seen a decent mp3 player with good headphones that come with it,, it's almost always earbuds that they give and not even good ones, maybe one day apple will bring a headphone but not now...
 
gloss

gloss

macrumors 601
May 9, 2006
4,811
0
around/about
General rule of thumb is that included earbuds = bad. Apple's included earbuds are somewhat less bad than the competition, but if you're looking for something audiophile quality go shop around for Shure headphones.
 
H

hsotnicaM

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 19, 2007
118
0
JHacker said:
Do you really expect a pair of $150 headphones with a $250 iPod?
Click to expand...

I expect more than a $5 pair of headphones. Look at any electronic outlet or even Walmart for that matter, you can find 6 Hz - 24,000 Hz earbuds for $20. It's like the earbuds were an afterthought.
 
gloss

gloss

macrumors 601
May 9, 2006
4,811
0
around/about
hsotnicaM said:
I expect more than a $5 pair of headphones. Look at any electronic outlet or even Walmart for that matter, you can find 6 Hz - 24,000 Hz earbuds for $20. It's like the earbuds were an afterthought.
Click to expand...

Compare the sound, not the specs.

Gigantic home theater systems can't even achieve 6hz. You can't even HEAR 6hz. The likelihood that a pair of headphones is going be able to reach 6hz with any level of intensity is nil.

Likewise, you can't hear 24khz. Most people are lucky if they can hear above 20khz. The iPod doesn't even OUTPUT above 20khz.
 
chaos86

chaos86

macrumors 65816
Sep 11, 2003
1,006
7
127.0.0.1
have you ever noticed anyone wearing a pair of iPod earbuds in public? yes? you've noticed a lot of these people? oh. so clearl, to all those people, the included earbuds are adequate, correct? so why would apple spend $15 more per iPod to increase satisfation in (I'm guessing) about 10% of all iPod users?
 
CanadaRAM

CanadaRAM

macrumors G5
Oct 11, 2004
12,417
6
On the Left Coast - Victoria BC Canada
hsotnicaM said:
you can find 6 Hz - 24,000 Hz earbuds for $20. It's like the earbuds were an afterthought.
Click to expand...

And if you believe that.... I have a tower in Paris I'd like to sell you.

The spec is just like the ads saying you can make 'up to' $10,000 a month selling MLM things or you can put up to 15 college students in a Volkswagen Beetle -- you won't, and the vast majority won't, but as long as one in a million do, then the statement is true. If the spec isn't an outright lie, then there will be barely detectable energy at 6 Hz or 24 KHz, but neither audible to the human ear nor musically useful.

The only way you get deep bass from an earphone is with a sealed, in-ear system like the Shure, M-Audio and Etymotic systems. Most consumers aren't ready for that, and the different sizes and style of ear canal inserts are a logistical nightmare for a mass market consumer electronic.
There's a reason that actual good quality earphones are $100 - $600 a set.
 
nukiduz

nukiduz

macrumors 6502
Apr 23, 2006
397
0
chaos86 said:
have you ever noticed anyone wearing a pair of iPod earbuds in public? yes? you've noticed a lot of these people? oh. so clearl, to all those people, the included earbuds are adequate, correct? so why would apple spend $15 more per iPod to increase satisfation in (I'm guessing) about 10% of all iPod users?
Click to expand...

To increase that 10%'s and even the rest's satisfaction?

I'm sure they can keep every iPod's price and offer a better quality earphones without losing too much.
 
P

PygmySurfer

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2006
330
63
Wellesley, ON
nukiduz said:
To increase that 10%'s and even the rest's satisfaction?

I'm sure they can keep every iPod's price and offer a better quality earphones without losing too much.
Click to expand...

If Apple includes $20 earphones, the price of the iPod goes up $20 as well. One set of earphones isn't going to please everyone, either. Jim may be a big fan of Grado headphones, Bob may like Shure, and Lisa, she's a huge fan of Sennheiser. The best bet is to include something cheap, and let everyone who needs more to purchase their own later.

Plus, the majority of music on iPods is in a lossy compressed format. The audiophiles who are putting lossless audio on their iPods are already purchasing (or in fact probably already have) $100+ earphones to use with them.

The included earphones are decent, and suitable for the majority of iPod owners. Those who want something of higher quality can purchase better earphones separately.
 
H

hsotnicaM

macrumors regular
Original poster
Jun 19, 2007
118
0
CanadaRAM said:
And if you believe that.... I have a tower in Paris I'd like to sell you.
Click to expand...

That $29.95 is suggested retail:
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027722&pathId=110&page=1

Not saying they are for everyone, just making a point they are out there.

Maybe not frequency, but surely they can create earbud with the sense of bass. If BOSE can make a small box that creates significant bass response, then it has to be possible in earbuds. As you suggested sealed, but I've had headphones YEARS ago with better bass response than Apple's earbuds.

BTW - There's no reason to be condescending.


chaos86 said:
have you ever noticed anyone wearing a pair of iPod earbuds in public? yes? you've noticed a lot of these people? oh. so clearl, to all those people, the included earbuds are adequate, correct? so why would apple spend $15 more per iPod to increase satisfation in (I'm guessing) about 10% of all iPod users?
Click to expand...

Maybe some don't realize what they're missing. Some may not even realize there's an option of using other headphones or earbuds. I'm not sure one must be an audiophile to enjoy good sounding music.
 
CanadaRAM

CanadaRAM

macrumors G5
Oct 11, 2004
12,417
6
On the Left Coast - Victoria BC Canada
hsotnicaM said:
That $29.95 is suggested retail:
http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027722&pathId=110&page=1

Not saying they are for everyone, just making a point they are out there.

Maybe not frequency, but surely they can create earbud with the sense of bass. If BOSE can make a small box that creates significant bass response, then it has to be possible in earbuds. As you suggested sealed, but I've had headphones YEARS ago with better bass response than Apple's earbuds.

BTW - There's no reason to be condescending.
Click to expand...

Yer missing the point. An advertisement claiming 5 - 24,000 response unqualified with dB response ratings means absolutely nothing. Of course earbuds that claim completely unrealistic specs are available for $30. It doesn't mean that they deliver musically useful information at anywhere near those frequencies.
 
SactoGuy18

SactoGuy18

macrumors 601
Sep 11, 2006
4,349
1,509
Sacramento, CA USA
gloss said:
General rule of thumb is that included earbuds = bad. Apple's included earbuds are somewhat less bad than the competition, but if you're looking for something audiophile quality go shop around for Shure headphones.
Click to expand...

That'll be great but Shure headphones--even the current low-cost SE110 model--starts at US$100 and can reach as high as US$400 for top-end SE530. :eek: You can get by with much less expensive models such as the Creative Labs EP-630 (US$30-US$35 retail) or the JVC HA-FX33 Marshmallow headphones (US$20 retail) that offer vastly superior sound to the original headphones that came with your iPod.
 
wakerider017

wakerider017

macrumors 68000
Sep 20, 2006
1,790
1
US of A
My biggest problem with the Apple headphones is comfort. They hurt my ears after a while.

I picked up a pair of Sony in-ear headphones at Target. Much better!
 
gloss

gloss

macrumors 601
May 9, 2006
4,811
0
around/about
SactoGuy18 said:
That'll be great but Shure headphones--even the current low-cost SE110 model--starts at US$100 and can reach as high as US$400 for top-end SE530. :eek: You can get by with much less expensive models such as the Creative Labs EP-630 (US$30-US$35 retail) or the JVC HA-FX33 Marshmallow headphones (US$20 retail) that offer vastly superior sound to the original headphones that came with your iPod.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the Shure headphones are another order of magnitude still. =)
 
BiikeMike

BiikeMike

macrumors 65816
Sep 17, 2005
1,019
1
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be condescending here, just educating, so I hope it does not come off that way.

First off, as most have said, everything you buy that comes with any type of earbud or earphones = teh suck.

Secondly, there is no way that an earbud can produce 20hz. At least not audible to you. Your car stereo, and probably your home stereo probably don't even go that low. The general saying is that people can hear 20-20. Thats 20hz to 20,000hz or 20khz.

Realistically, this is a greatly varying number, as is anything that has to do with humans. As people get older, they lose hearing, and most people can probably hear between 30-40ish hz to 15k-16khz. Stuff lower than that, you can "feel." That is why subwoofers are so much bigger than high frequency drivers, they move more air.

Taking that into account, there is really no way an earbud can give you a good "thump" but there are some bigger over the ear cans out there that can. What these headphones usually do is not worry about balancing your music, and they have what they call a "bass boost." They will put a low end heavy Equalization in the headphone, and that is why when you turn it up, it sounds crunchy, because it starts clipping.


This is all just scratching the surface, there are volumes and volumes written on this subject, and it is actually quite interesting. There are quite a few wikipedia articles on human hearing, including Psychoacoustics, and The Hypersonic Effect.


So, back on the subject of headphones, yes, the crappy apple earbuds satisfy most people, and those that want more have the choice. If you are looking for a good, mid priced well balanced earbud and are willing to put the money in them, check out the Shure E-Series sound isolating earphones. I have the E2c's, and they work great for the gym, airplanes, etc. If Apple were to include a set of E2c's with every iPod, they would be $100 more
 
BWhaler

BWhaler

macrumors 68040
Jan 8, 2003
3,788
6,244
JHacker said:
Do you really expect a pair of $150 headphones with a $250 iPod?
Click to expand...

Some people put $600 headphones on a $250 iPod.

Audiophiles can have very, very high standards as they can hear sounds and qualities which 99% of the population cannot hear.

Remember, like most things, there are different segments with different needs. Some people need $20 headphones, some need $600. Your mileage may vary.
 
P

PygmySurfer

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2006
330
63
Wellesley, ON
BWhaler said:
Some people put $600 headphones on a $250 iPod.

Audiophiles can have very, very high standards as they can hear sounds and qualities which 99% of the population cannot hear.

Remember, like most things, there are different segments with different needs. Some people need $20 headphones, some need $600. Your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...

I think JHacker was asking if the OP was expecting Apple to include $150 headphones with the iPod. Audiophiles do have very high standards, and what may suit one may not suit another, so it'd be silly to even TRY to cater them by including more expensive headphones with an iPod. I'm pretty sure that's similar to the point JHacker was trying to make :)
 
Merkuryy

Merkuryy

macrumors regular
Jun 10, 2007
175
0
Shanghai, China
Ya, Apple's headset is really not that bad, even iAudio has stupid headphone that not match their high quality product.The new headphones are very comfortable to me,and the sound is OK.I have nothing to praise but also nothing to complain about either
 
M

Mugetsu

macrumors newbie
Jul 29, 2007
20
0
My first time....

...when using the $500 Shure 530PTH earbuds, it brought tears to my eyes.

it was amazing.
 
K

K Wal

macrumors newbie
Sep 10, 2007
16
0
BiikeMike said:
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be condescending here, just educating, so I hope it does not come off that way.

First off, as most have said, everything you buy that comes with any type of earbud or earphones = teh suck.

Secondly, there is no way that an earbud can produce 20hz. At least not audible to you. Your car stereo, and probably your home stereo probably don't even go that low. The general saying is that people can hear 20-20. Thats 20hz to 20,000hz or 20khz.

Realistically, this is a greatly varying number, as is anything that has to do with humans. As people get older, they lose hearing, and most people can probably hear between 30-40ish hz to 15k-16khz. Stuff lower than that, you can "feel." That is why subwoofers are so much bigger than high frequency drivers, they move more air.

Taking that into account, there is really no way an earbud can give you a good "thump" but there are some bigger over the ear cans out there that can. What these headphones usually do is not worry about balancing your music, and they have what they call a "bass boost." They will put a low end heavy Equalization in the headphone, and that is why when you turn it up, it sounds crunchy, because it starts clipping.


This is all just scratching the surface, there are volumes and volumes written on this subject, and it is actually quite interesting. There are quite a few wikipedia articles on human hearing, including Psychoacoustics, and The Hypersonic Effect.


So, back on the subject of headphones, yes, the crappy apple earbuds satisfy most people, and those that want more have the choice. If you are looking for a good, mid priced well balanced earbud and are willing to put the money in them, check out the Shure E-Series sound isolating earphones. I have the E2c's, and they work great for the gym, airplanes, etc. If Apple were to include a set of E2c's with every iPod, they would be $100 more
Click to expand...

Very well put Mike. Earbuds aren't good at low freq. most drivers under 6 in. aren't.
And here I thought you were just a light guy
Goofy at RM
 
BiikeMike

BiikeMike

macrumors 65816
Sep 17, 2005
1,019
1
K Wal said:
Very well put Mike. Earbuds aren't good at low freq. most drivers under 6 in. aren't.
And here I thought you were just a light guy
Goofy at RM
Click to expand...


SHHH!!!

You might blow my cover! Don't let anyone over at RM know that I can actually put together well thought out, lucid posts ;)


And back on topic, maybe we should get a mac poll going to see who uses the earphones that come with the iPod, and who does not. Actually, I'm gonna go start one right now :)

I know it won't be an official mac poll, and we are not an "average" target group, but it will be interesting anyway :)
 
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