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scem0
Aug 15, 2003, 01:05 PM
I am a member of a forum called Blizzforums (Blizzforums.com) in addition to MacRumors, and a lot of members there have been misinformed about macs.

While I agree with a lot of what people have to say there about apple, some things are just plain wrong, and I want to inform PC users that have been misinformed of their misconceptions.

Italics means it is my commentary

So here are some things I pulled up from different sites and from my own experience:

This is meant to convince *nix users

1. Mac doesn't have a CLI. No longer true. Out-of-the-box OS X supports tcsh, csh, sh and zsh. Compiling bash (which most GNU/Linux users use) is trivial for the average Linux user.

2. MacOS crashes all the time. With OS X, the MacOS doesn't crash any more frequently than any other *BSD.
My mac has crashed twice in 2 years - my PC has crashed sooooo many times. Mac OS X is so stable, it will astound PC users. Someone saying mac os x crashes all the time is just plain hillarious IMO

3. Networking is weak on MacOS. With its BSD roots, MacOS includes all of the command-line networking utilities that UNIX people are familiar with, and the OS includes the IP Filter firewall in the kernel. It also ships with support for remote mounting NFS, SMB and even WebDAV. Heck, it's got SSH installed and doesn't enable telnet by default.

4. Mac hardware costs more than x86 hardware. Apple hardware is priced similarly to both Dell or Compaq machines. Although the Macintosh costs more when compared with a home-built machine, the notion that Apple hardware is expensive is not true. The company's computers don't cost appreciably more than a manufactured x86-based computer.
Ok..... I disagree with this - macs cost a hell of a lot more. But you save money because you don't have to fix it, you save time (which is money ;)), and **** like that). I can deal with the extra cost, when I think about everything else mac has to offer

5. Macs only have a 1-button mouse. Since when has a true geek used a mouse that was supplied with a computer? OS X supports three-button mice. Almost any standard USB mouse will work with a current Mac.

6. You can't expand a Mac. This is true to some extent with the iMac, and, of course, with laptops. The PowerMac is extensible with lots of PCI cards and uses standard IDE drives and standard SDRAM. Firewire, available with all Apple computers, is a very cool expansion technology once you see it in action.
Im upgrading my g3 iMac's processor any day now - so that is possible too

www.powerlogix.com


7. You can't run Linux apps on Macs. The FINK project is working on porting more and more Linux applications to the Darwin OS (OS X's base is similar to Red Hat being the base of some versions of Linux), thus making great projects like XDarwin that are laying the groundwork for getting lots of Linux apps running on the Mac. The FINK project has even ported Debian's "apt-get" to OS X, making installation a snap.

8. Developing for OS X is a pain. Not true at all. Apple's Cocoa programming environment makes application development very easy and uses Objective-C (an object-extended version of regular old C) or Java as its base. In fact, Cocoa is a direct descendant of the NeXTSTEP development environment.

9. The Mac interface is a tired old washout. Not at all. The Aqua interface of Mac OS X has more in common with NeXT and OpenStep than with the classic Mac OS (shhh ... don't tell current Mac users.) The dock should be well-remembered by any Linux diehard who has used WindowMaker or Afterstep.
It would be so hypocritical for a windows user to say this..... look at windows 95 - then look at XP - and tell me what style is a tired old washout.

10. But it's not open. The base OS, Darwin, is an open source project. It's true that OS X itself is proprietary. This open source configuration is similar to X Server and up when using Linux. Although OS X allows you to run XFree86 and your favorite window manager over Darwin and be completely open source (well, mostly), once you've seen the beauty of Aqua you may think twice about going back to Gnome or KDE.


The fact is that OS X has quite a lot going for it to appeal to a Linux/UNIX user. The developer community is alive and well, as can be seen by daily trips to VersionTracker.

http://www.technewsworld.com/perl/story/15983.html

Everyone uses Windows.
Fact: If youíre an accountant, youíre most likely surrounded by beige Wintel boxes. But if you work in nearly every creative field, you most likely use a Mac. Like in graphic arts, advertising and publishing. Or in Hollywood. Or in science-based industries like biotech. Or in education, where half of the computers are Apples. Or if you are President of the United States (our two most recent presidents, a Democrat and a Republican, both use Macs). Even 25% of Americaís lawyers use Macs. In all, over 25 million people use Macs in their homes, offices and schools every day.
This makes it seem as though macs are only good for people in creative fields and thats not true at all.

Macs donít work with PCs.
Fact: Simply untrue. Every day millions of documents, emails and instant messages are sent between Macs and PCs. Word documents, Excel spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations exchanged. Emails delivered and instant messages shuttled back and forth. This isnít news because it happens silently, daily, with no fanfare. Thatís because all Macs are designed to work seamlessly with PCs and connect into PC networks to easily access files and folders. The rest of the world should get along so well.

Contrary to popular belief, Mac and Windows get along perfectly together. They run the same software. They talk to each other. Itís a small world after all.
This PC is networked to the mac in the other office, and I exchange files between the two all the time seemlesly. It took a lot longer to figure out how to send files from the PC to the mac then from the mac to the pc. The mac made it a LOT easier


The software I need isnít available for Macs.
Fact: There are over 15,000 applications available for the Mac, in every category imaginable. Productivity programs from Microsoft Office to FileMaker. Design programs from Photoshop to Maya. Filmmaking tools from Final Cut Pro to After Effects. Finance programs from Quicken to MYOB. And games from The Sims to Tony Hawk. But if you do encounter that rare program which isnít available for Mac, you can still run it right on your Mac using Virtual PC. Still think thereís something youíre missing? Go to apple.com and check for yourself. We promise not to say, ďwe told you so.Ē
I agree with apple on this one except for games. If you are a hardcore gamer, get a PC. If you play the occasional game like me, the mac will be more than enough. Ive played sc for years, works just as good on a mac as it does on a pc. But if you want to play all the new games the instant they come out, then get a PC, or even better - get a new hobby ;).

Macs donít run Microsoft Office.
Fact: Quite the opposite. Not only does a brand new version of Microsoft Office run on the Mac, but ó Office v.X for Mac OS X is actually better than its Windows cousin, with features available only on the Mac. Microsoft Office documents are fully compatible between Mac and Windows. So when you create an Excel spreadsheet or a Word document or a PowerPoint presentation on a Mac, you can send it to someone with a PC and it will open perfectly. And vice versa.
MS Office from PC to mac is pretty seemless. My mom writes files on the mac all the time and sends them to me on the pc, and everything is the same.

Windows has caught up with the Mac.
Fact: It canít be denied that Microsoft has made a good business out of copying the innovative Mac OS. And, truth be told, Windows XP is their best effort to date. But Mac OS X has sent them back to the drawing boards. Particularly with respect to graphics, everything digital (like music, movies and photography), ease of use and elegance. In other words, all the things that make a state-of-the-art operating system, well, state-of-the-art. And weíre not the only ones who think so. Consider critics like the Detroit Free Press, who recently proclaimed: ďThe new OS X for Mac runs circles around Windows XP.Ē Or ZDNetís David Coursey, who praises Mac OS X as ďThe nicest operating system Iíve ever seen.Ē
Windows really does make me sad......
They have only gone downhill since 98' and Windows was DOS based up until ME. Windows is sooooooo much worse than OS X. I can't stress that enough.

In my opinion, OS X is the main reason to get a mac. It is so innovative, so stable, so secure, so beautiful, and it just plain works. Even if my PC was twice as fast as my mac, I save twice as much time not having to go through loop holes to do simple tasks.

Macs are far easier to use than PCs. Guilty as charged.
hehe, apple also has a nice sense of humor, unlike M$ ;)

http://www.apple.com/myths/


please add on with stuff like 'Mhz != speed', etc. I could really use some help.

By the way, this isnt suppost to be a mac vs pc type thing. I love PCs, I love macs more, Im typing this on a PC. But I don't like PC users bashing macs with facts that just aren't true.

scem0

Powerbook G5
Aug 15, 2003, 01:35 PM
I've heard so much G5 bashing from the internet...the funny thing is, though, all my seriously PC biased friends who have been against Macs for all the years I've known them are actually excited over the G5. It seems like the ones who actually understand processor technology are the ones who truly either fear it or love it, no matter what the platform. One of my friends whom I used to build PCs with is talking about buying a G5 in the next year, now that is amazing, since he used to be the most Mac hateful person I've known. It's funny that someone would say the G5 is worse than the old P4s considering the PIII was a better processor when the first P4s came out...

mactastic
Aug 15, 2003, 01:43 PM
I've got a friend who is a hard core PC fanatic who came very close to buying PB about a year ago, and has finally decided he will buy a G5 tower instead of building a new PC tower. He bitches constantly about the price, but I let him use my PB and he calms down. OS X almost got him a year ago, but the G5 has sealed the deal.

MacsRgr8
Aug 15, 2003, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by scem0
quote:
People who lust over apple or think G5 is the fastest processor should die for stupidity/ignorance.
The G5 isn't even CLOSE to the early P4.
Apple should die

Once I read stuff like this, I loose interest.

Thanks for showing what forums NOT to read :)

scem0
Aug 15, 2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
Once I read stuff like this, I loose interest.

Thanks for showing what forums NOT to read :)

It should inspire you to try to cure this ignorance ;)!

I took the worst of the worst too, not everyone says stuff like that.

btw - i added some more misconceptions and commentary. More will come later, but on a different post because I am about 8 characters under the limit.

scem0

couch potato
Aug 15, 2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I've heard so much G5 bashing from the internet...the funny thing is, though, all my seriously PC biased friends who have bee against Macs for all the years I've known them are actually excited over the G5. It seems like the ones who actually understand processor technology are the ones who truly either fear it or love it, no matter what the platform. One of my friends whom I used to build PCs with is talking about buying a G5 in the next year, now that is amazing, since he used to be the most Mac hateful person I've known. It's funny that someone would say the G5 is worse than the old P4s considering the PIII was a better processor when the first P4s came out...

heh, same here. i used to belong to a PC forums, and i posted the G5 there, and they love it:)

MacsRgr8
Aug 15, 2003, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by scem0
It should inspire you to try to cure this ignorance ;)!

scem0

I hear so much of that ignorance..... that I'm so happy to come over to these boards, "chatting" to people like yourself who are not ignorant!
I see these forums as a sanctuary, a holiday... you know what I mean. :)

tjwett
Aug 15, 2003, 03:53 PM
Recently I had a friend who was considering buying his first Mac and was hesitant because he was told that "it's really hard to get any tech support or repairs with a Mac..." so recently I brought him along with me to an Apple Retail Store. I had a machine from a client that had a failed battery or something. We walked in and slapped it on the bar and they examined it and repaired right on the spot. We were in and out of there in 10 minutes. I think he was impressed because he now owns a new iMac and an iBook.

daveL
Aug 15, 2003, 06:47 PM
Just a small nit: OS X does indeed include bash as a shell option. In fact, bash is the default shell in the Panther betas, so far.

FattyMembrane
Aug 15, 2003, 08:54 PM
as daveL said, bash has been included and is now standard.

Networking: the mac os is the networking king. many linux distros are now catching up and implementing things like zeroconf, but apple has made it a point to make osx the best networking os out there.

Programming: it took me about 3 years to finish my "learn c in 21 days" book, but after a couple of hours with "learn cocoa", i was making gui apps in osx. osx is a developer's dream; integrated and free dev tools by apple, every popular scripting language is already installed, and tcl/tk, qt, and wxwindows all work on osx.

Linux Apps: the metapkg.org project is working on bringing us the breadth of portage and apt-get and then some. 10.3 includes x11 as a standard option and there are many linux apps that have been ported to run natively on osx.

mac users also have a far better community and, in my opinion, better freeware developers than the windows world. lots of people say that there isn't enough software for the mac os, but one of the main reasons i stick with the mac os is because of the apps that you can't get on windows.

CooCooCaChoo
Aug 16, 2003, 12:50 AM
You are already preatching to the converted. Most UNIX people like what Apple have done, it is only the PC-Windows and PC-Linux fanboys that happen to have an issue with paying for their software and hardware mainly because most of them are 14 year old losers with an part time job.

yes, I had a job at 14 delivering news papers at 5:00am.

I've moved from UNIX to MacOS and my decision was based NOT on price but what MacOS provided over the competition. MacOS gave me a cool UNIX base with the ability to run heaps of mainstream programs such as Office X, 4D Database, Corel Graphics Suite 11, Netbeans (and occasionally Eclipse) and other assorted UNX stuff.

btw, the comment regarding mice, a real geek doesn't use a mouse. A real geek uses a keyboard 85% of the time. The only people who use more than 1 mouse button fall into two categories, firstly they're graphic artists to speed up tasks - which is an acceptable excuse, or secondly they're people who buy mice with 9000000000000 buttons so that they can program every button to do something, from closing windows to cleaning their ass. IMHO, there is NO productivity improvement for the average user to have a mouse with more than one button.

I used to work on a hell desk and could you imagine the tourture of having to teach a user how to right click! most didn't know what a right mouse click was. These are the types of idiots that use computers on a regular basis. Fanboys DON'T represent the vast majority of people.

tazo
Aug 16, 2003, 01:08 AM
Originally posted by CooCooCaChoo

btw, the comment regarding mice, a real geek doesn't use a mouse. A real geek uses a keyboard 85% of the time. The only people who use more than 1 mouse button fall into two categories, firstly they're graphic artists to speed up tasks - which is an acceptable excuse, or secondly they're people who buy mice with 9000000000000 buttons so that they can program every button to do something, from closing windows to cleaning their ass. IMHO, there is NO productivity improvement for the average user to have a mouse with more than one button.


I agree on the 10k button variety of mice, however its really difficult for me to surf te web minus a scroll wheel, that alone is something apple needs to have.

shadowfax
Aug 16, 2003, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by CooCooCaChoo
You are already preatching to the converted. Most UNIX people like what Apple have done, it is only the PC-Windows and PC-Linux fanboys that happen to have an issue with paying for their software and hardware mainly because most of them are 14 year old losers with an part time job. yeah, definitely preaching to the choir in... a mac forum? haha, there are hardly any unix geeks in here... i only know a few in person, myself. my grandpa is one, and he definitely appreciates the MacOS.

on the mouse issue, i used to have those intellimouse things with 4 buttons. then one day it broke, i realized that i only use 2 buttons anyway, and bought a logitech. then when i converted to mac, i found i liked ctrl-clicking better than right clicking, and my trackpad is better than a "real" mouse.

i'm still confused about the validity of the purpose of this thread in the context of this forum. why don't you publish, scem0?

Squire
Aug 16, 2003, 05:00 AM
The only thing I dislike about the Mac is that there are fewer games. I think nearly every game is available to a PC user. Right?

Regarding cost, though, I think Macs are quite competitive. Of course, a custom built PC machine is dirt cheap and, by the way, some DO come with warranties contrary to popular belief. (Mine is one year.) But if you compare a Mac to a Sony, for instance, there's not much of a difference. At least that was the case when I compared my 17" iMac to a Sony.

Squire

scem0
Aug 16, 2003, 07:33 AM
I know I know....

I am just doing this so I can transfer it all when I'm done to BlizzForums.

scem0

crenz
Aug 16, 2003, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by scem0
It should inspire you to try to cure this ignorance ;)!

There's no way to better waste time than to try to "cure" somebody who doesn't want to be informed, but rather stick with his/her opinion. Don't waste your breath. As they say... don't teach a pig to sing -- it will annoy you and it will annoy the pig (or something like that).

I find that Apple is gaining marketshare in the Unix circles. E.g. quite a number of people in the Perl community seem to be working on Mac OS X these days (myself included). Those that are open-minded usually do a fair comparison for themselves between Mac and x86 platform and end up with whatever is their cup of tea.

scem0
Aug 16, 2003, 09:19 AM
I am kind of grouping everyone at blizzforums into one big group even though that isn't true. Many peopel will gladly read this and their opinions will change.

As for those too stubborn and ignorant to even give this a thought - I'll let them spend the rest of their lives battling with their PCs as we mac users live in harmony with out macs ;).

But I really do think a lot of people at blizzforums are open-minded enough to acknowledge that some of the things they have been saying about macs isn't true at all.

scem0

iJon
Aug 16, 2003, 10:55 AM
personally most of my friends just dont know alot about macs, but since im not the geeky guy who sits in the corner, im actually am pretty popular so i get lots of my friends asking about my powerbook, using xback and marine aquarium as the background, genie effect, and expose now are enough to get them excited. I have two friends who didnt like macs but i quickly learned they were covered by a distortion field (kind of like the jobs distortion field ;) ) after explaining alot to him they got real excited, and now are waiting for new 15's to come out and they are gonna buy them. and since they are indian they have like a billion rich hotel owning relatives who now want mac's too. i think apple should step up and advestise some more stuff, im getting tired of seeing the g5 commercial. they need some more ideas. the only thing they dont need to advestise is the ipod, ipod gets enough free advestising from tv and music videos.

iJon

AppleMatt
Aug 16, 2003, 12:06 PM
I've got a die-hard PC techy that wanted to play with my Mac, and he was surprisingly positive about it before he'd ever used one, saying things like "Macs are supposed to be extremely stable aren't they", etc etc.

Once he played with it he was amazed, he said doing half the things at the same time on his (v.fast Windows XP) PC would kill it dead. Just so everyone knows, I had the following going;

- Matrix Reloaded 97MB movie trailer, frist full screen then running in the dock.
- iTunes playing MP3's
- Mail.app sitting there
- Safari (conveniently loading the Apple Store)
- MSN Messenger, one conv open
- Burning a CD image with Disk copy
- Various finder animations, zipping around in list view opening and closing windows etc.

He was amazed, then I proceded to tell him that I had a relatively slow Mac, and that OS X is quite slow responisveness wise. When I booted into Panther I think he cried a little.

(12" PowerBook 384MB RAM was used)

AppleMatt