PDA

View Full Version : Toshiba Prototypes 120 GB 1.8




MacRumors
Sep 10, 2007, 01:15 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Toshiba has announced a prototype 1.8" HDD (http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2007_09/pr0601.htm) that fits 120 GB on a single platter via a breakthrough called Discrete Track Recording (DTR). The drive uses the same form factor currently used in Apple's iPod classic.

Currently, Apple uses an 80 GB single-platter drive for its thinner model and a 160 GB dual-platter drive for its slightly thicker model. Toshiba's technology would allow single-platter models to achieve 120 GB densities, with a dual-platter option going as high as 240 GB.

Toshiba plans to begin mass producing the drives in 2009.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/10/toshiba-prototypes-120-gb-1-8-single-platter-drive/)



apachie2k
Sep 10, 2007, 01:19 PM
is it just me or has the HD dev. process slowed down a bit? When will it be an option to have say, 1 TB in a laptop?

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 01:23 PM
OK NOW FOR THE ONSLAUGHT OF COMMENTS OF HOW WE DON'T NEED BIGGER STORAGE IN OUR IPODS.

Anyway I just got my engraved 160GB iPod Classic this morning. I have 100GB of music on my Mac and my 80 was bursting at the seams. It did notice as I began the long syncing process that there is ONLY slightly more that 148 GB of actual open space after the software :-(

Oh well.... waiting now for the 240GB Classic. Hope they always keep at least one large storage version "in print" even as they expand those Touch Flash pods.

Us real music junkies always need more room. There is NEVER enough space. And if you say it again, that I should just choose playlists, I would respond, you never know what music mood you are in at any given time, so having it all with you is pure bliss!!!

sam10685
Sep 10, 2007, 01:27 PM
Is there a triple-platter one? A 240 gig ipod is tiny.

earnjam
Sep 10, 2007, 01:27 PM
I agree. While I don't have 100GB of music, I do have about 40GB. I like being able to just hit shuffle on my 80GB iPod I got a year ago. It's the best radio station in the world. Plays all genres and anything I like with no commercials.

That being said, I have an 8GB iPhone and I feel like it has plenty of space.

To each his own.

tkidBOSTON
Sep 10, 2007, 01:27 PM
Wow, over a year until they're produced in mass quantities?
Anyone know if Apple has begun using the drives in the past before they were "mass produced" by manufacturers?

Karpfish
Sep 10, 2007, 01:28 PM
Well considering 1TB drives are farily new in Desktop size, it will still be some time before it hits 2.5" laptop drives. They need to hit 500 first.

JPyre
Sep 10, 2007, 01:29 PM
Personally I wish magnetic drives would just die, it's like 70 yo technology they're still using. Why is it taking soo long for flash to catch up would be a better question. Toshiba offers a laptop with dual drives, but they max out at 160GB a piece, I'm not sure if anyone makes a 500GB laptop drive to swap in, seagate maxes out at 160, western digital at 250...

SthrnCmfrtr
Sep 10, 2007, 01:34 PM
2009, eh? Why do I get the sneaking suspicion that something bigger will be out sooner?

Bring on the flash.

Squonk
Sep 10, 2007, 01:39 PM
And I thought 160GB was big. A 240GB is a nice next bump up. The 160GB would hold me for a while, certainly long enough until the 240's come out. :D

nagromme
Sep 10, 2007, 01:41 PM
In 2009, we'll all be fondly reminiscing about back when we actually used spinning magnetic discs for things.

vintagetobes
Sep 10, 2007, 01:49 PM
OK NOW FOR THE ONSLAUGHT OF COMMENTS OF HOW WE DON'T NEED BIGGER STORAGE IN OUR IPODS.

Anyway I just got my engraved 160GB iPod Classic this morning. I have 100GB of music on my Mac and my 80 was bursting at the seams. It did notice as I began the long syncing process that there is ONLY slightly more that 148 GB of actual open space after the software :-(

Oh well.... waiting now for the 240GB Classic. Hope they always keep at least one large storage version "in print" even as they expand those Touch Flash pods.

Us real music junkies always need more room. There is NEVER enough space. And if you say it again, that I should just choose playlists, I would respond, you never know what music mood you are in at any given time, so having it all with you is pure bliss!!!

A quick sum reveals you have (very) roughly 2,000 cds. Assuming each one measures about 1cm across (a little less really), we are talking just less than 20m of shelf space. Of course you may have bought songs on itunes, in which case a cost figure would be equally alarming. The last option is illegal downloads... Apple doesn't need to keep increasing the size of its classic ipod since there are only a few people who are actually able to fill the new once with legal purchases. Otherwise they might be seen to be ecouraging illegal downloads on a huge scale.

Of course there is the arguement that people will start ripping music at a higher bit rate. But theres a limit to how much people can do that with the popularity of laptops these days and their limited space.

kddpop
Sep 10, 2007, 01:50 PM
until flash can compete, this is great news.

flash is better technology but limited by size. that's why im leaning toward a classic over an ipod touch. i need the room.

~kyle

quigleybc
Sep 10, 2007, 01:51 PM
can I get one implanted into my brain?

i think it would help....

zwida
Sep 10, 2007, 01:55 PM
A quick sum reveals you have (very) roughly 2,000 cds. Assuming each one measures about 1cm across (a little less really), we are talking just less than 20m of shelf space. Of course you may have bought songs on itunes, in which case a cost figure would be equally alarming. The last option is illegal downloads... Apple doesn't need to keep increasing the size of its classic ipod since there are only a few people who are actually able to fill the new once with legal purchases. Otherwise they might be seen to be ecouraging illegal downloads on a huge scale.

Of course there is the arguement that people will start ripping music at a higher bit rate. But theres a limit to how much people can do that with the popularity of laptops these days and their limited space.

Fine, fine, but what about video?

Dagless
Sep 10, 2007, 01:56 PM
A quick sum reveals you have (very) roughly 2,000 cds. Assuming each one measures about 1cm across (a little less really), we are talking just less than 20m of shelf space. Of course you may have bought songs on itunes, in which case a cost figure would be equally alarming. The last option is illegal downloads... Apple doesn't need to keep increasing the size of its classic ipod since there are only a few people who are actually able to fill the new once with legal purchases. Otherwise they might be seen to be ecouraging illegal downloads on a huge scale.

Of course there is the arguement that people will start ripping music at a higher bit rate. But theres a limit to how much people can do that with the popularity of laptops these days and their limited space.

People like you make me laugh. ¨oh you have a big library so it must be illegal¨, guess what? Years ago my dad started ripping his record library. Literally thousands of the things. I love his music so it's on my iPod now. I also bulk out my iTunes library with video. Say hello space waster! films at a quality and resolution to look good on my LCD monitor and my iPod take up about 700mb per film. Fancy doing some maths at how many films I have?

Running past the silly comments. I'd love a 240gb iPod. I use my iPod as an external HDD, I want to carry my whole iTunes library (wouldn't even be possible with a 160gb iPod now, I'm at 190gb - without photos.) since I travel a fair bit.

Roll on 2009! Shame flash can't hold much really. I threw up a little when they announced tha 16gb Touch :o

majordude
Sep 10, 2007, 01:59 PM
Anyway I just got my engraved 160GB iPod Classic this morning.

160GB?! I only have a 60GB!! I demand a free upgrade or a refund! Boycott Apple! Start a class action lawsuit! :mad:

Oops, wrong thread. :D

There is NEVER enough space. And if you say it again, that I should just choose playlists, I would respond, you never know what music mood you are in at any given time, so having it all with you is pure bliss!!!

There is a BIG difference between saving files as 128 mp3 versus Apple lossless. I have all my CDs saved as lossless and the songs take up a lot of disk space. :(

macintel4me
Sep 10, 2007, 02:00 PM
50% HDD capactiy is something, but Toshiba really needs the killer app for this outside of individual music libraries bigger than Motown.

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 02:08 PM
A quick sum reveals you have (very) roughly 2,000 cds. Assuming each one measures about 1cm across (a little less really), we are talking just less than 20m of shelf space. Of course you may have bought songs on itunes, in which case a cost figure would be equally alarming. The last option is illegal downloads... Apple doesn't need to keep increasing the size of its classic ipod since there are only a few people who are actually able to fill the new once with legal purchases. Otherwise they might be seen to be ecouraging illegal downloads on a huge scale.

Of course there is the arguement that people will start ripping music at a higher bit rate. But theres a limit to how much people can do that with the popularity of laptops these days and their limited space.

OK here is the deal. I have about 4000 Vinyl LPs and about 10,000 CDs. I am probably twice your age so have been collecting for a very long time. I probably have purchased 400 songs from iTunes but prefer to buy CDs due to the quality and packaging. I might have several thousand digital songs that are considered illegal but they are all rare or bootlegs. Basically things not officially released. None were illegal copies of official releases.

I love all genres. Obviously not every band or artist within each, but always open to artists that push and experiment. I also love the great POP singles (Summer in the City a ****in great record) and so on. And yes I want the best audio reproduction I can within the limits we have.

I find is so important to support musicians and pay for music whenever possible. I can afford it. But I started out working in record stores so promos added to my collection. I go to a record store once a week. Amoeba in San Francisco which I feel is the only great store left. In Towers hey day, my friends and I would meet there every New Release Tuesday to feed our habits.

I totally understand that most people don't need to take it all with them. All my music is at home and streams from my mac to a great stereo almost all day and night. Yes I still play the Vinyl and CDs for better quality too.

But my big iPod stays with me at my studio and I take it when I travel. There will never be a POD to hold my entire collection, but these classics with more storage, allow for me to have a pretty good representation of all the sounds I like. With me wherever I am!!!

vintagetobes
Sep 10, 2007, 02:10 PM
Its nice to see a true audio fan. I apologize for assuming otherwise.

SthrnCmfrtr
Sep 10, 2007, 02:10 PM
There is a BIG difference between saving files as 128 mp3 versus Apple lossless. I have all my CDs saved as lossless and the songs take up a lot of disk space. :(

I hear that. Plus you might want to listen to a 5.1 release of a given album at home, with your surround system, but only stereo on the go.

I mean, in my main library I have about 140GB, last I checked, but only 4,000 songs. Sure, it's a couple hundred CDs, but nothing extravagant. According to Apple I should have, what, over 33,000 if I used 128K AAC?

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 02:12 PM
People like you make me laugh. ¨oh you have a big library so it must be illegal¨, guess what? Years ago my dad started ripping his record library. Literally thousands of the things. I love his music so it's on my iPod now. I also bulk out my iTunes library with video. Say hello space waster! films at a quality and resolution to look good on my LCD monitor and my iPod take up about 700mb per film. Fancy doing some maths at how many films I have?

Running past the silly comments. I'd love a 240gb iPod. I use my iPod as an external HDD, I want to carry my whole iTunes library (wouldn't even be possible with a 160gb iPod now, I'm at 190gb - without photos.) since I travel a fair bit.

Roll on 2009! Shame flash can't hold much really. I threw up a little when they announced tha 16gb Touch :o

... i thank you for support. and yes my 16 year old son has his pod full of our collective music too. We turn each other on to all kinds of stuff. Much from me....stays in the family. Thanks for the big pod support!!!

SthrnCmfrtr
Sep 10, 2007, 02:13 PM
... i thank you for support. and yes my 16 year old son has his pod full of our collective music too. We turn each other on to all kinds of stuff. Much from me....stays in the family. Thanks for the big pod support!!!

You mean he doesn't have his own copies? :eek:
</RIAA>

;)

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 02:14 PM
Its nice to see a true audio fan. I apologize for assuming otherwise.

no apologies necessary. But for me the pod is only for music. I could give a crap of watching anything on my pod....

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 02:17 PM
You mean he doesn't have his own copies? :eek:
</RIAA>

;)

Screw the RIAA. They helped destroy the record business.

These are mostly from our CDs but even iTunes allows you to put the purchased music on up to five devices. I only have one son....;)

psychofreak
Sep 10, 2007, 02:17 PM
When we get 300GB Flash for laptops (I assume by that time, it will be as 'needed' as 120GB is now) then its the real beginning of the end for magnetic HDs for consumers.

corywoolf
Sep 10, 2007, 02:18 PM
Personally I wish magnetic drives would just die, it's like 70 yo technology they're still using. Why is it taking soo long for flash to catch up would be a better question. Toshiba offers a laptop with dual drives, but they max out at 160GB a piece, I'm not sure if anyone makes a 500GB laptop drive to swap in, seagate maxes out at 160, western digital at 250...

Why is it taking soooo long to find the cure for cancer? ;) There is no guaranteed timeline of progression, research and development takes lots of time. Sometimes a "breakthrough" technology can be refined for a while, until it finally is near perfect. Then we have to go back to the drawing board and think outside the box to make the next "breakthrough". Flash is no different, the capacity of flash drives has actually increased very quickly in the last few years. I remember buying a 64MB compact flash card at CompUSA in 2001 for around $60. The 1GB mini hard-drive based compact flash cards costed a fortune then. Today you can buy a 2GB card for around $40. Hard drives are here to stay for a while. They will be phased out to average consumers over the next five years, but the elite and business world will be using hard drives for decades to come. I can already see the day when one can't find hard drives in stores anymore. They will be very expensive super hard drives that start off at 5TB for $1000. These will be used for 4k high definition media and databases.

Edit: also the 250 GB drive you speak of is only 4200 RPM, very slow. The iPod Classic uses 3200 RPM, which is fine for what it does. The average laptop drive is 5400 RPM right now. I want 250GB 10,000 RPM 2.5" drives, then we're talking.

NewSc2
Sep 10, 2007, 02:28 PM
OK NOW FOR THE ONSLAUGHT OF COMMENTS OF HOW WE DON'T NEED BIGGER STORAGE IN OUR IPODS.

Anyway I just got my engraved 160GB iPod Classic this morning. I have 100GB of music on my Mac and my 80 was bursting at the seams. It did notice as I began the long syncing process that there is ONLY slightly more that 148 GB of actual open space after the software :-(

Oh well.... waiting now for the 240GB Classic. Hope they always keep at least one large storage version "in print" even as they expand those Touch Flash pods.

Us real music junkies always need more room. There is NEVER enough space. And if you say it again, that I should just choose playlists, I would respond, you never know what music mood you are in at any given time, so having it all with you is pure bliss!!!

I have about 120gb of music, and at least that much in ripped DVDs. In fact, I have much, much more than 120gb in music (my own stuff) but I don't bother counting those. Out of the 120gb, most of those are downloaded live sets (Essential Mixes, concerts, etc.).

Are you really out there where you'd need your ENTIRE music collection in the palm of your hand? I have a dedicated external 500gb hdd to hold all my media, and that's totally fine with me. Going with something smaller, like a nano, still lets me hold hours and hours of music.

I understand there's a small market out there for people who do want their 1TB music collection in the palm of their hand. I'd personally rather have an iPhone, combining a phone/internet browser/iPod into one pocket, than have to wear cargo pants or carry my bag with me everywhere I go.

vintagetobes
Sep 10, 2007, 02:28 PM
I want 250GB 10,000 RPM 2.5" drives, then we're talking.

Battery?

DTphonehome
Sep 10, 2007, 02:32 PM
Wow, hard drives will be bigger in the future, and so will iPods! What an incredibly surprising report!

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 02:42 PM
I have about 120gb of music, and at least that much in ripped DVDs. In fact, I have much, much more than 120gb in music (my own stuff) but I don't bother counting those. Out of the 120gb, most of those are downloaded live sets (Essential Mixes, concerts, etc.).

Are you really out there where you'd need your ENTIRE music collection in the palm of your hand? I have a dedicated external 500gb hdd to hold all my media, and that's totally fine with me. Going with something smaller, like a nano, still lets me hold hours and hours of music.

I understand there's a small market out there for people who do want their 1TB music collection in the palm of their hand. I'd personally rather have an iPhone, combining a phone/internet browser/iPod into one pocket, than have to wear cargo pants or carry my bag with me everywhere I go.

Nobody NEEDS anything. but I work twice a year in Manhattan for a month at a time (live in San Francisco). I really want to have a ton of music with me while I am away from home. I listen almost ALL OF THE TIME. I too have a 500GB hard drive at home with everything loaded.

Yes it may be a minority but think of musicians on the road for months or photographers with studios who keep most of their collection at home. It might be a smaller market but Turntables are still thriving with new wonderful models out there now for the specific vinyl junkie.

GFLPraxis
Sep 10, 2007, 02:46 PM
OK NOW FOR THE ONSLAUGHT OF COMMENTS OF HOW WE DON'T NEED BIGGER STORAGE IN OUR IPODS.

Anyway I just got my engraved 160GB iPod Classic this morning. I have 100GB of music on my Mac and my 80 was bursting at the seams. It did notice as I began the long syncing process that there is ONLY slightly more that 148 GB of actual open space after the software :-(

Oh well.... waiting now for the 240GB Classic. Hope they always keep at least one large storage version "in print" even as they expand those Touch Flash pods.

Us real music junkies always need more room. There is NEVER enough space. And if you say it again, that I should just choose playlists, I would respond, you never know what music mood you are in at any given time, so having it all with you is pure bliss!!!

Forget music; I could easily fill 160 GB in video.

offwidafairies
Sep 10, 2007, 02:47 PM
i dont need to carry around that much music

Cheffy Dave
Sep 10, 2007, 02:47 PM
can I get one implanted into my brain?

i think it would help....

HMMMMMMMMM, somebody somewhere must have done a study, varing for IQ, what's the human brain rated at GB wise?:rolleyes::D:apple:

offwidafairies
Sep 10, 2007, 02:49 PM
but i do want bigger faster drive in my laptop
160Gb 7200rpm in mbp is not big enough (and i wouldnt go slower drive)
patiently waiting ;)

parksprodigy
Sep 10, 2007, 02:51 PM
I'm sorry but its getting to the point that these media devices have more space than our computers. I have a macbook which I upgraded with a 250gig hard drive (The largest currently available). Of which I have about 150gigs of media that could be put onto an iPod. As a mobile computer user I love having everything with me where ever I am. But to fill that I would need an external HD!?!?! It Kind of seems like they should focus more on getting Flash memory into the 30-80gb range for the iPod touch/iPhone before progressing into the 240gb range in the iPod classic.

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 03:00 PM
i dont need to carry around that much music

But what if you stuck way out in the outback? :D

Dagless
Sep 10, 2007, 03:03 PM
Forget music; I could easily fill 160 GB in video.

My videos takes up 170gb out of the 190gb of my iTunes library. Add another 12gb once I rip my entire Spooks DVD collection :)

Photographs too, ah, they're a bit stocky. my 5k pics in iPhoto easily add 6gb to my iPod. *this is what I love about iPod now. All my media can, sorta, be carried on one device.

decimortis
Sep 10, 2007, 03:05 PM
But what if you stuck way out in the outback? :D

Heh heh. I think battery power might become the issue over having enough songs. ;)

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 03:07 PM
Heh heh. I think battery power might become the issue over having enough songs. ;)

well then, they better be working on the iPod Solar Classic. The Dingo Outback Special Edition...

Ded set!

RichP
Sep 10, 2007, 03:08 PM
I am another fan of the large-storage ipod. I like having all my music and videos in one device. if you dont like it, go get a nano!

Heck..may have to start re-ripping my music in lossless now.. (my current collection is 192AAC)

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 03:12 PM
I am another fan of the large-storage ipod. I like having all my music and videos in one device. if you dont like it, go get a nano!

Heck..may have to start re-ripping my music in lossless now.. (my current collection is 192AAC)

You know out of the maybe 400 or song songs I have ever purchased via iTunes, i logged on to see how much I could upgrade to the DRM free better quality iTune PLUS mode and it only was ONE albums worth.

I know only EMI but where are all those indies that said they would go that way too? Soon i Hope? This is exactly why I'd rather buy the actual CD!!

KingofAwesome
Sep 10, 2007, 03:31 PM
A quick sum reveals you have (very) roughly 2,000 cds. Assuming each one measures about 1cm across (a little less really), we are talking just less than 20m of shelf space. Of course you may have bought songs on itunes, in which case a cost figure would be equally alarming. The last option is illegal downloads... Apple doesn't need to keep increasing the size of its classic ipod since there are only a few people who are actually able to fill the new once with legal purchases. Otherwise they might be seen to be ecouraging illegal downloads on a huge scale.


Are you accusing someone of stealing music because you can't imagine someone having that many CDs? Are you assuming a 128K bitrate? I have about 60GB of music, and probably 600-700 CDs, purchased over a period of almost 20 years. That's an average of two discs every three weeks. Back when I was in high school I had about 100 CDs. I think you made too many assumptions to be accusing someone of stealing massive amounts of music.

EDIT: Apparently I wasn't the first to notice that comment...

Dimwhit
Sep 10, 2007, 03:50 PM
I think this is awesome. A 240GB iPod. Sweet! I would much rather have that much on an iPod Touch, but still...there's just something about having EVERYTHING with you at all time. All your music, home video, a bunch of movies for the kids, some for the adults, etc. Very cool...

Data
Sep 10, 2007, 03:56 PM
HI storage LOW pricing, thats what i love , and not just for ipods of course, i can never have enough ( free )space, eveything works better if you have 200 gig of free space on your systeem drive ;-) .

BigJohno
Sep 10, 2007, 04:04 PM
OK NOW FOR THE ONSLAUGHT OF COMMENTS OF HOW WE DON'T NEED BIGGER STORAGE IN OUR IPODS.

Anyway I just got my engraved 160GB iPod Classic this morning. I have 100GB of music on my Mac and my 80 was bursting at the seams. It did notice as I began the long syncing process that there is ONLY slightly more that 148 GB of actual open space after the software :-(

Oh well.... waiting now for the 240GB Classic. Hope they always keep at least one large storage version "in print" even as they expand those Touch Flash pods.

Us real music junkies always need more room. There is NEVER enough space. And if you say it again, that I should just choose playlists, I would respond, you never know what music mood you are in at any given time, so having it all with you is pure bliss!!!


Dude do you even listen to all that music? Thats so much.

twoodcc
Sep 10, 2007, 04:06 PM
good news! looks like it'll be awhile before we see them in an ipod though

Darkroom
Sep 10, 2007, 04:13 PM
i kinda can't wait until HDs are big enough (like 1TB) for no one to really care about it's size, or even comment about it, as it will just hold everything... :rolleyes:

Darkroom
Sep 10, 2007, 04:15 PM
Dude do you even listen to all that music? Thats so much.

i second the question... there's no point in being a size queen if you'll never ever ever listen to track #8748572, let alone even realize you have it.

Consultant
Sep 10, 2007, 04:16 PM
OK here is the deal. I have about 4000 Vinyl LPs and about 10,000 CDs. I am probably twice your age so have been collecting for a very long time. I probably have purchased 400 songs from iTunes but prefer to buy CDs due to the quality and packaging. I might have several thousand digital songs that are considered illegal but they are all rare or bootlegs. Basically things not officially released. None were illegal copies of official releases. ...

I totally understand that most people don't need to take it all with them. All my music is at home and streams from my mac to a great stereo almost all day and night. Yes I still play the Vinyl and CDs for better quality too.

But my big iPod stays with me at my studio and I take it when I travel. There will never be a POD to hold my entire collection, but these classics with more storage, allow for me to have a pretty good representation of all the sounds I like. With me wherever I am!!!

You might want the Gigantipod (up to 5 TB!) ;p
http://www.wiebetech.com/aprilfools/

=p

shoelessone
Sep 10, 2007, 04:18 PM
There is NEVER enough space.

EXACTLY!

That's the problem. I have well over 500gb of music, at least 100gb of that is audio books, but still. I collect crap. I collect music. I have most discographys, etc. I think I have something like 9 gigs just of Sublime, for instance.

Anyway, my point is that (although I hate myself for detracking from perhaps the point of this thread), I guess I've gone beyond the, "I want a big hard drive to store all of my music". It's just not practicle for me to store all of my music on a device. And even if I could, I wouldn't want to because it is just too much to sort through.

Which is why I limit myself to a good 20 albums at any given time.

mackensteff
Sep 10, 2007, 04:25 PM
HMMMMMMMMM, somebody somewhere must have done a study, varing for IQ, what's the human brain rated at GB wise?:rolleyes::D:apple:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=525801

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 04:29 PM
i second the question... there's no point in being a size queen if you'll never ever ever listen to track #8748572, let alone even realize you have it.

Well then you are not the audience for having everything and that's cool :cool:

Right now if I feel likeing playing Blue Trane by John Coltrane..I got it. the entire Miles Davis Bitches Brew sessions, got it, If I want Cashmere by Zeppelin, I got it.....Fever Peggy Lee got it, Phantom Force Super Furry Animals, Jim Carroll Band, ? and the Mysterians, Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash, Sex Pistols, All Beethoven 9 Symphines. My 18 CD Nat King Cole box is loaded. SMOG, Decemberists, every Dylan, Beatles, Kinks, Byrds, Clash, Bowie, Echo & the Bunnymen, Wilco, Yoko Ono, Kronos Quatert, Billy Bragg, Charlie Mingus, Doc Watson, Dr. John. It's all there.

I am at my studio, my CDs are home, I can choose whever I like.

We have days where it's all one artist or one genre or a Psychedelic playlist or Monty Python.

That's the point. We never know what we might be in the mood for... Kind of like MUSIC ON DEMAND!!

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 04:32 PM
You might want the Gigantipod (up to 5 TB!) ;p
http://www.wiebetech.com/aprilfools/

=p

YES! CAN I GET IT ENGRAVED!!!:D

johnmcboston
Sep 10, 2007, 04:45 PM
good grief. At least let me buy the current model before I read about how soon it will be outdated. :)

JGowan
Sep 10, 2007, 05:01 PM
A quick sum reveals you have (very) roughly 2,000 cds. Assuming each one measures about 1cm across (a little less really), we are talking just less than 20m of shelf space. Of course you may have bought songs on itunes, in which case a cost figure would be equally alarming. The last option is illegal downloads... Apple doesn't need to keep increasing the size of its classic ipod since there are only a few people who are actually able to fill the new once with legal purchases. Otherwise they might be seen to be ecouraging illegal downloads on a huge scale.

Of course there is the arguement that people will start ripping music at a higher bit rate. But theres a limit to how much people can do that with the popularity of laptops these days and their limited space.Some guy who YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHO HE IS, says he has a lot of music and you automatically go to eluding "you're a thief"?! BALLS-ZILLA!

I've got more music than he does and it is 100% legit.

Who at Macrumors.com made you the RIAA policeman? Begone with your thrill-kill accusations! 240GB of storage is incredible. This thread is about the technology not your idea that the music industry is getting ripped off. Geez-o-Pete, man!

offwidafairies
Sep 10, 2007, 05:02 PM
well then, they better be working on the iPod Solar Classic. The Dingo Outback Special Edition...

Ded set!

now ur talking!!!!! :)

abrooks
Sep 10, 2007, 05:11 PM
i kinda can't wait until HDs are big enough (like 1TB) for no one to really care about it's size, or even comment about it, as it will just hold everything... :rolleyes:

As frightening as it may seem I don't think this will ever happen. Back in the day, computers ran with 128k of storage, I bet they thought that they'd never 1GB of storage.

But file sizes continue to grow as our ability to store it grows.

slu
Sep 10, 2007, 05:18 PM
A quick sum reveals you have (very) roughly 2,000 cds. Assuming each one measures about 1cm across (a little less really), we are talking just less than 20m of shelf space. Of course you may have bought songs on itunes, in which case a cost figure would be equally alarming. The last option is illegal downloads... Apple doesn't need to keep increasing the size of its classic ipod since there are only a few people who are actually able to fill the new once with legal purchases. Otherwise they might be seen to be ecouraging illegal downloads on a huge scale.

Of course there is the arguement that people will start ripping music at a higher bit rate. But theres a limit to how much people can do that with the popularity of laptops these days and their limited space.

This is so dumb it is unbelievable. You just assume he has illegal music. I have over 700 cds personally and know people with more than 1000. You do know that some people have big houses and can store cds? Some people, like me, store the cds in binder that takes up much less space. Some people also have a lot of money and can afford to buy as many cds or songs on iTunes as they want.

And you sort of answered your own dumb comment by saying music could be encoded at a higher bit rate, but then you back track by saying it would take too much space on a laptop. You ever hear of an external drive? Or perhaps some people have desktops? Or a NAS? Jebus.

And you didn't even consider that fact that some people store video and photos on their iPod and some use it as a portable drive for data.

By your logic, Apple should have never made an iPod bigger than 10 GB, since most people don't have that much content and anyone that does MUST be a pirate. Get a clue, please.

On topic, any increase in capacity is welcome by me.

EDIT: I see I should have read the thread before responding...but this made me too mad. Sorry this has already been covered.

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 05:25 PM
Well back to my original post, having just got my new 160GB Classic, there is ONLY slightly more that 148 GB of actual open space after the software :-(

Almost 12GB of "software?" :(

slu
Sep 10, 2007, 05:28 PM
i second the question... there's no point in being a size queen if you'll never ever ever listen to track #8748572, let alone even realize you have it.

Why do you care? I really don't get why anyone would ever say that is too much space. It may be for you, but guess what? Apple makes iPods in sizes from 1GB to 160GB...there is one right for you!

I don't go around in nano threads saying "That's too little space. What if you want to listen to a record that is not on your nano at the time?" If I want to carry around 160 GB of content and only listen to one song over and over and Apple wants to sell me a device that holds 160 GB of content, what's it to you? It is my money.

majordude
Sep 10, 2007, 05:31 PM
Who at Macrumors.com made you the RIAA policeman?

Yes!

Nobody expects the RIAA Inquisition!

Come along! We happen to believe the following avatar is pirated from Sir Paul and other copyright holders.

This will get you the rack!

dal20402
Sep 10, 2007, 05:31 PM
This is so dumb it is unbelievable. You just assume he has illegal music. I have over 700 cds personally and know people with more than 1000. You do know that some people have big houses and can store cds? Some people, like me, store the cds in binder that takes up much less space. Some people also have a lot of money and can afford to buy as many cds or songs on iTunes as they want.

You don't even need a lot of money. Just patience.

My girlfriend and I have been regularly buying CDs for at least 15 years, just a couple a week. Between the two of us we now have over 1500 CDs. They fit on a single 12' long rack on one wall. I have a large fraction of that collection ripped losslessly and it is 240 GB. If I were to rip the whole thing losslessly, it would add up to about 450 GB. Every last one of those CDs was bought legitimately.

Lossless compression is unnecessary for an iPod, at least for me; I never listen anywhere where it's quiet enough I can hear the difference. But even at 256kbps, just the music I've ripped adds up to about 90 GB. Before my next long trip I am going to buy a 160 GB iPod Classic to replace my 60 GB 4G iPod, so I can have it all there. I'm a prime example of someone who needs big storage for music and is not a thief.

Mgkwho
Sep 10, 2007, 05:55 PM
Maybe they could work out a deal to have new classics ready for next fall! Sort of akin to their Intel deals.

-=|Mgkwho

milo
Sep 10, 2007, 06:01 PM
Well back to my original post, having just got my new 160GB Classic, there is ONLY slightly more that 148 GB of actual open space after the software :-(

Almost 12GB of "software?" :(

No, it's just because formatting a 160 gig device only ends up with about that, even with no software on it. HD capacity numbers are given unformatted, you never end up with the full amount. My 750 gig hard drive formatted to 698 gigs, about the same 7-8% lost space.

http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/resource/tips-tricks/2004/missing-megabytes.html

Ha ze
Sep 10, 2007, 06:07 PM
Not gonna lie, I see absolutely no need for a drive that large in a device such as the iPod, but fantastic for all of those that would want this.

I'd rather see more focus put on NAND and get those up to in size.

johnmcboston
Sep 10, 2007, 06:17 PM
I have over 700 cds personally and know people with more than 1000

Hey, I had close to 3,000 in my heyday...

KindredMAC
Sep 10, 2007, 06:24 PM
So why don't we use these in a laptop to save size?
Anyone know the speed on these?

Doctor Q
Sep 10, 2007, 06:31 PM
It's not good enough to measure the size of your current music/video/photo collection and then compare it to available iPod sizes. You should measure your collection's size and rate of growth, so you know how soon you'll need any given size of iPod storage.

Even if you acquire only one new song a week, you'll eventually outgrow any size of disk; it's just a matter of when. On the flipside, you don't need to buy an iPod that holds much more than you'll need during the expected lifespan of the device.

MrCrowbar
Sep 10, 2007, 06:32 PM
I don't like having too much music on my iPod. I recorded a lot of internet radio at random an put it in iTunes. There's pretty as much artists in the list as there are songs, many are there multiple times (typos...) so it takes me a while to get to the song I want on the iPod. An I only have a 6 Gig Nano... I wish there was a way to browse in playlists as you can in the library.

sushi
Sep 10, 2007, 06:59 PM
We never know what we might be in the mood for... Kind of like MUSIC ON DEMAND!!
Yes, that definitely is a nice feature of the larger capacity iPod Classic.

And now with larger sizes, you can also carry your favorite movies and home videos with you as well.

Sweet! :)

nemaslov that is a nice sized collection that you have. Mine pales in comparison at around a little over a thousand CDs. Although, these days I am purchasing more music and video from the iTMS. So convenient. Your record collection reminds me of a fellow that I knew many years ago. His entire basement was his record collection. I have no idea how many he had, but his collection was huge. We used to browse it like a fine wine collection and then choose what we wanted to listen to on his awesome stereo. :)

Luis
Sep 10, 2007, 07:25 PM
Well back to my original post, having just got my new 160GB Classic, there is ONLY slightly more that 148 GB of actual open space after the software :-(

Almost 12GB of "software?" :(

It is because vendors count 1 MB as 1000 bytes, and it really is 1 MB = 1024 bytes. You do the math.

jacktiernan
Sep 10, 2007, 07:29 PM
A quick sum reveals you have (very) roughly 2,000 cds. Assuming each one measures about 1cm across (a little less really), we are talking just less than 20m of shelf space. Of course you may have bought songs on itunes, in which case a cost figure would be equally alarming. The last option is illegal downloads... Apple doesn't need to keep increasing the size of its classic ipod since there are only a few people who are actually able to fill the new once with legal purchases. Otherwise they might be seen to be ecouraging illegal downloads on a huge scale.

Of course there is the arguement that people will start ripping music at a higher bit rate. But theres a limit to how much people can do that with the popularity of laptops these days and their limited space.

I am SO with you on this one. 2000 cds is more than $40,000 worth of music, and i simply do not believe that many people legitimately own that much music.

You are absolutely correct mate. Apple should not have to create massive HD ipods just for this tiny amount of people - or for the people who steal music (Which is a terrible thing to do, btw)

I have about 10gb of music in iTunes, only about 7-8gb that i actually listen to more than once a year. I know movies take up a lot of room, but really, who needs 150+ movies on their ipod at any one time???

nsbio
Sep 10, 2007, 08:19 PM
It seems to me - and I may be wrong - that portable hard drives with parts spinning at however many thousand rpm is a dead-end technology. Solid state technology is bound to pick up VERY soon and grow in capacity/speed/reliability to the point of making hard drive in portable devices obsolete. A little after that, there will be no need to spin/move anything at all. What I mean for now is that by 2009 there might not be as much need for 1.8'' 240Gb hard drives as there is for 160Gb 1.8'' hard drives today.

Dagless
Sep 10, 2007, 09:32 PM
Dude do you even listen to all that music? Thats so much.

I do, yes.

I am SO with you on this one. 2000 cds is more than $40,000 worth of music, and i simply do not believe that many people legitimately own that much music.

You are absolutely correct mate. Apple should not have to create massive HD ipods just for this tiny amount of people - or for the people who steal music (Which is a terrible thing to do, btw)

Firstly - people DO have that much music. It may be a minority. But they DO exist. So they shouldn't increase the storage space on iPods... Who for? For people with Flash players to feel happier? More storage space is good all round. It means I can carry documents to and from university and work, I can keep a backup of my important documents on it. More space = more backups. I just cannot see why they would stop. Even when theres 100tb of space and nobody is reaching that limit with just music - if it costs the same and is in the same form factor then nothing is wrong with that at all.

I have about 10gb of music in iTunes, only about 7-8gb that i actually listen to more than once a year. I know movies take up a lot of room, but really, who needs 150+ movies on their ipod at any one time???
Me.

I travel home from the city, I don't sit down in the mornings and plan what I'll want to watch after a days worth of stress, or joy in 9 hours time. Which is why I want everything. There is no pre-selection involved.

majordude
Sep 10, 2007, 09:40 PM
I am SO with you on this one. 2000 cds is more than $40,000 worth of music...

2K discs = $40K? :eek:

Where do you buy your music, the BMG Music Club?

sushi
Sep 10, 2007, 10:36 PM
I am SO with you on this one. 2000 cds is more than $40,000 worth of music, and i simply do not believe that many people legitimately own that much music.
I think this is a very bad presumption to make.

Sure there are people who illegally obtain their music.

But many folks out there own their music legitimately and have extensive CD collections (purchased or transferred from their vinyl collections) that they have imported into iTunes.

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 10:48 PM
I am SO with you on this one. 2000 cds is more than $40,000 worth of music, and i simply do not believe that many people legitimately own that much music.

You are absolutely correct mate. Apple should not have to create massive HD ipods just for this tiny amount of people - or for the people who steal music (Which is a terrible thing to do, btw)

I have about 10gb of music in iTunes, only about 7-8gb that i actually listen to more than once a year. I know movies take up a lot of room, but really, who needs 150+ movies on their ipod at any one time???

I am a friggen liar, Yes all stolen from you and several others here plus some Grateful Dead concert Jams (that's 100GB alone). In fact I did your sister while I was transfering all those tunes into my big friggen POD!

majordude
Sep 10, 2007, 10:59 PM
In fact I did your sister while I was transfering all those tunes into my big friggen POD!

Who hasn't?

sushi
Sep 10, 2007, 11:20 PM
I have about 10gb of music in iTunes, only about 7-8gb that i actually listen to more than once a year. I know movies take up a lot of room, but really, who needs 150+ movies on their ipod at any one time???
I guess other people must have different needs than you. Otherwise, why would Apple offer a product such as this? Why? Because there are folks out there who want this capability and are willing to pay for it.

nemaslov
Sep 10, 2007, 11:26 PM
I guess other people must have different needs than you. Otherwise, why would Apple offer a product such as this? Why? Because there are folks out there who want this capability and are willing to pay for it.

and if I was trudging through the tundra in Alaska I would want that solar powered iPod with 500GB of tunes to keep me warm throughout my journey.

Yes this is getting very silly. :D

aliasfox
Sep 11, 2007, 12:02 AM
21 - James Bond Movies
10 - Star Trek films
6 - Star Wars films
3 - LotR films
2 - (soon to be 3) Rush Hours
4 - Period and biopics (Amadeus, Last of the Mohicans, The Aviator, Ray)
3 - stupid comedies (Wedding Crashers, Dodgeball, 40 yr old Virgin, etc)
10 - other enjoyable - I didn't say good - movies (Gladiator, Usual Suspects, etc)

That's 59 films at 1.1 GB each, so 65 GB. Plus nine seasons of the Simpsons on DVD (224 MB per episode, ~23 episodes per season... ~50 gigabytes?) 4 seasons of Futurama (22 GB), and suddenly, I don't have enough space for my music, let alone more video.

All of the above video can be purchased for well under $1000 if you're looking in Blockbuster's 4 for $20 bin, buying boxed sets online, or through the iTunes store.

Hell, I'd have to have my library on an iPod... my PowerBook can't hold it all... neither can my cube... and my tower would be bogged down by all of that...

hotinplaya
Sep 11, 2007, 12:23 AM
Not everyone use's their iPods for "Music" I have a small internet home business

My set up

263GB iTune library, kept on a Lacie 500GB external drive

iMac with 167GB out of 250 being used (also backed up on the 500GB external drive) nightly

80GB iPod 5.5, where I back up my most important items weekly, and keep at a different location, even tho, I am pretty safe with a full back up on the external, my worry is theft.

I have a 160GB on its way, will be able to Back up,"almost" my whole home folder. I know there are "cheaper" solutions, but the ease and size of using an iPod as my emergency HD, can't be beat.

We also have 3 nanos and a shuffle in the family for music.

sushi
Sep 11, 2007, 01:51 AM
and if I was trudging through the tundra in Alaska I would want that solar powered iPod with 500GB of tunes to keep me warm throughout my journey.
Oooh, I like it.

The solar panel could be an accessory to your backpack so you could charge your iPod while walking/hiking! ;)

Chilz0r
Sep 11, 2007, 04:49 AM
Isn't a flashed based hdd bad? Someone was telling me they only last a certain amount of time based on the level of reading/writing data and after a period of time the byte sectors go funny???

Dagless
Sep 11, 2007, 07:00 AM
Isn't a flashed based hdd bad? Someone was telling me they only last a certain amount of time based on the level of reading/writing data and after a period of time the byte sectors go funny???


This is true, but it would take about 45-50 years (IIRC) for the memory to be 'used up'.

Dagless
Sep 11, 2007, 07:03 AM
21 - James Bond Movies


Nice :cool: I'm considering ripping my DVD collection to iPod too. I started but gave up on Thunderball :o Bond and Spooks (series 1-4) are going to EAT my drive space.

KiraDouji
Sep 11, 2007, 07:19 AM
Why are we still focusing on improving this technology? I mean, yes it's useful now, if they mass produced the second they got it out, but shouldn't technology that focuses on mobile devices concentrate more on enlarging more long lasting technology like flash, compact flash, and solid state? Laptops are going thin and iPods/other mp3 devices are everywhere; since people want lighter, quicker, and more space, wouldn't it make more sense to invest the R&D money into technologies that will be replacing this sort of thing?

- Kira

Newbi
Sep 11, 2007, 08:01 AM
I think its great that Toshiba is creating bigger 1.8 HDD's.

Iv just got a new Macpro and the 160Gb HDD that came with it ( upgraded from 120Gb ) is pathetic.

I for one would want as big as HDD as posible in my iPod, i use my 30Gb pod for listerning to music in my car and connecting to my Tv at work when im on nights to watch my ripped movies.

Yes we would all like to have 1Tb nand drives but until then HDD's are still the way to go if its capacity you want.

I mean im just buying my sixth 1Tb HDD for my storage server for my media and files backup.


N

majordude
Sep 11, 2007, 08:33 AM
Iv just got a new Macpro and the 160Gb HDD that came with it ( upgraded from 120Gb ) is pathetic.

Pathetic? Why?

Newbi
Sep 11, 2007, 09:16 AM
Pathetic? Why?


Well i bought it to replace my wife's old PC laptop ( also to try and get her using OSX :)) and with profiles for me, my wife and my daughter with pictures iTunes accounts files Etc i can see 160Gb HDD filling up quite quickly?

As soon as a bigger and reasonably cost HDD comes out i will upgrade.


Thats Why.

N

nickane
Sep 11, 2007, 09:18 AM
A quick sum reveals you have (very) roughly 2,000 cds. Assuming each one measures about 1cm across (a little less really), we are talking just less than 20m of shelf space. Of course you may have bought songs on itunes, in which case a cost figure would be equally alarming. The last option is illegal downloads... Apple doesn't need to keep increasing the size of its classic ipod since there are only a few people who are actually able to fill the new once with legal purchases. Otherwise they might be seen to be ecouraging illegal downloads on a huge scale.

Of course there is the arguement that people will start ripping music at a higher bit rate. But theres a limit to how much people can do that with the popularity of laptops these days and their limited space.

If you had decent headphones/IEMs you would dread 128k files and settle for nothing less than 256 VBR or 320. If you had 500+ cds you'd get tired of them getting scratched and always needing to replace them when all you want to do is discover new music rather than buy the same stuff again so you'd want lossless backups of all of them. You'd also still want the originals in case your hard drive fried (many ppl don't, a lot of these enormous libraries are owned by ppl who ebay everything they buy, thus spending a fraction of what itunes charges for downloads on cd-quality files - and that's not illegal). With my entire library in lossless, I can burn mixes for car journeys that will sound just like the original cds as opposed to itrips/bluetrips etc which sound toss. I can downconvert the files to any format i want for whatever legal purpose i want without worrying about anything cos i'll still have the lossless original.

I would settle for lossless at home, and 320 on the go, but Apple don't want me to do that, because then I'd be less likely to buy a bigger ipod when they release one. The 160GB will do for now, but it really only holds 500 albums (1250 at 320k). People can say that there's no difference til they're blue in the face and even if the naysayers were right (they're not - ask any professional in sound/music what they encode at), it wouldn't matter, cos there's enough of a market for it for apple to bother making the highest capacities available to those consumers one way or another. If there wasn't, they wouldn't have made an ipod classic at all. I know people will over 500 gigs of music. I know people with over 2000 cds. Not everybody utters that seemingly ubiquitous line of "I find I don't really listen to new music anymore, my ipod lets me listen to what I've had for years and that's all I really like." There's a ton of musos who always listen to new stuff as well as their old favourites and apple has taught them that they can now have both in their pocket at all times. We're not about to give that up.

majordude
Sep 11, 2007, 09:26 AM
As soon as a bigger and reasonably cost HDD comes out i will upgrade.

I have a 7200 RPM 200GB HD ($200). And I think Hitachi is working on a fast 250 as well.

Consultant
Sep 11, 2007, 09:29 AM
No, it's just because formatting a 160 gig device only ends up with about that, even with no software on it. HD capacity numbers are given unformatted, you never end up with the full amount. My 750 gig hard drive formatted to 698 gigs, about the same 7-8% lost space.

http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/resource/tips-tricks/2004/missing-megabytes.html

It's not lost space.

Computer systems uses the binary system to account for space.

1KB = 1024 bytes
1MB = 1024 KB
1GB = 1024 MB

While all hard drive maker's sales people uses 1000 notations (possibly to make it look bigger?):

1KB = approx 1000b ytes
1MB = approx 1000b KB
1GB = approx 1000b MB

160GB in sales jargon =
160 x 1000 x 1000 x 1000

Divide that by 1024^3 gives you the drive size in computer accounting. So 160GB ---> 149GB.

Analog Kid
Sep 11, 2007, 09:31 AM
Personally I wish magnetic drives would just die, it's like 70 yo technology they're still using. Why is it taking soo long for flash to catch up would be a better question. Toshiba offers a laptop with dual drives, but they max out at 160GB a piece, I'm not sure if anyone makes a 500GB laptop drive to swap in, seagate maxes out at 160, western digital at 250...
Wow, I can't imagine how pissed you are about the transistor...
Why are we still focusing on improving this technology? I mean, yes it's useful now, if they mass produced the second they got it out, but shouldn't technology that focuses on mobile devices concentrate more on enlarging more long lasting technology like flash, compact flash, and solid state? Laptops are going thin and iPods/other mp3 devices are everywhere; since people want lighter, quicker, and more space, wouldn't it make more sense to invest the R&D money into technologies that will be replacing this sort of thing?

- Kira
Well, most transistor based devices double in complexity every 18 months, but that's just an industry rate as opposed to the "law" it's sometimes called. Samsung is quite proud of doubling flash capacity every 12 months, which is astounding.

There are limits though, not least of which is the physical size of the device and the number of manufacturing steps required to produce them. Bit densities in rotating media are pretty impressive.

I don't think it's going to be flash that replaces the hard drive, I think it's going to have to be something else.
HMMMMMMMMM, somebody somewhere must have done a study, varing for IQ, what's the human brain rated at GB wise?:rolleyes::D:apple:
That's not a fair measure-- the compression is too lossy. ;)

majordude
Sep 11, 2007, 09:34 AM
INot everybody utters that seemingly ubiquitous line of "I find I don't really listen to new music anymore, my ipod lets me listen to what I've had for years and that's all I really like."

LOL! That's me! :p

I probably have 500 ripped (lossless) discs but find myself only listening to Genesis' Three Sides Live and Duke, Pink Floyd's Animals, Steely Dan's Katy Lied and Royal Scam, and some random early Rush songs.

I can't fill up a small 1st generation Shuffle! :D

pagansoul
Sep 11, 2007, 09:44 AM
see below

pagansoul
Sep 11, 2007, 09:48 AM
Back in 1987 (est) I sold all my records and started to purchase CDs. I moved from NJ to San Francisco and didn't want to carry the weight. In SF there were plenty of Pawn shops and CDexchange places that kept me supplied. Over about 5 years I went from about 100 records to 0. 0 CDs to 250 (about a CD a week). I then moved to Georgia and my cost of living went way down from California but I was making the same. I've been in Georgia since '92 and in those 15 years I still by my CDs used ($5 and under). My collection is over 1,000. This year I got a Mac Pro, 2TB HD and have begun ripping at Apple Lossless. I'm at 250GB with my music, about 50GB with my ripped DVDs (my collection of DVDs is about 3000 disc, many Sci-Fi series also mostly purchased used), and a boat load of podcasts. My old iMac PPC has half of my collection at 128 for loading on my ipods. You can never have to much storage. I also get digital magazines which I never delete. I've been thinking about getting a labtop (never had one before) but the current still don't ring my bell, maybe when they can hold as much space as an ipod :D .

slu
Sep 11, 2007, 10:29 AM
LOL! That's me! :p

I probably have 500 ripped (lossless) discs but find myself only listening to Genesis' Three Sides Live and Duke, Pink Floyd's Animals, Steely Dan's Katy Lied and Royal Scam, and some random early Rush songs.

I can't fill up a small 1st generation Shuffle! :D

I suppose next you are going to tell us that when the demon is at your door, in the morning he won't be there no more....:)

gnasher729
Sep 11, 2007, 11:35 AM
No, it's just because formatting a 160 gig device only ends up with about that, even with no software on it. HD capacity numbers are given unformatted, you never end up with the full amount. My 750 gig hard drive formatted to 698 gigs, about the same 7-8% lost space.

http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/resource/tips-tricks/2004/missing-megabytes.html

It's not actually lost, it is the difference between marketing GB and programmer's GB. One marketing GB = 1 billion bytes = 1,000,000,000 bytes. One programmer's GB = 1024 x 1024 x 1024 bytes = about 1,073,000,000 bytes. The iPod has 160 marketing GBs, that is about 148 programmer's GB.

gnasher729
Sep 11, 2007, 11:49 AM
I am SO with you on this one. 2000 cds is more than $40,000 worth of music, and i simply do not believe that many people legitimately own that much music.

People having 2000 CDs will often use whatever cheap sources they can find. If you have that amount, you don't have to buy every CD at full price when it comes out, you can buy it at half price a year later or a fourth of the price three years later in a used shop. 2000 CDs likely only cost $10000 or a bit more.

But even $40,000 is just the difference between a top-of-the-range Mercedes and a not-quite-top-of-the-range one.

nemaslov
Sep 11, 2007, 12:24 PM
People having 2000 CDs will often use whatever cheap sources they can find. If you have that amount, you don't have to buy every CD at full price when it comes out, you can buy it at half price a year later or a fourth of the price three years later in a used shop. 2000 CDs likely only cost $10000 or a bit more.

But even $40,000 is just the difference between a top-of-the-range Mercedes and a not-quite-top-of-the-range one.

OK I have spent 3K to 5K a year on physical music (CD, LPs etc.) for at least the past 15 to 20 years. Some new, some used, I still get some promos. I know this since I write it all off, but that is another story. Nd I seem to be addicted to wonderful box stes. LOVE the packagaing. That is something I will miss big time and digital only sales expand. I love alternate takes, out takes, demos and so on.

majordude
Sep 11, 2007, 12:53 PM
People having 2000 CDs will often use whatever cheap sources they can find.

A confession! It's the rack for you!

- The RIAA Inquisition

mihiruthere93
Sep 11, 2007, 05:33 PM
A confession! It's the rack for you!

- The RIAA Inquisition

HA HA so true... it's so funny how they crack down on the down-loaders and not the seeds... go limewire, I guess.:D

Homerun7dh
Sep 11, 2007, 10:10 PM
A quick sum reveals you have (very) roughly 2,000 cds. Assuming each one measures about 1cm across (a little less really), we are talking just less than 20m of shelf space. Of course you may have bought songs on itunes, in which case a cost figure would be equally alarming. The last option is illegal downloads... Apple doesn't need to keep increasing the size of its classic ipod since there are only a few people who are actually able to fill the new once with legal purchases. Otherwise they might be seen to be ecouraging illegal downloads on a huge scale.

Of course there is the arguement that people will start ripping music at a higher bit rate. But theres a limit to how much people can do that with the popularity of laptops these days and their limited space.

considering how bad iPods sound from an Audiophile standpoint, iPods definitely have room for improvement. songs are going to get bigger and sound better. can't wait for the day....

probably 15% of my music library is full quality wav files.

so eventually we'll need a 240GB iPod to hold a normal library.

Eduardo1971
Sep 15, 2007, 12:19 AM
OK NOW FOR THE ONSLAUGHT OF COMMENTS OF HOW WE DON'T NEED BIGGER STORAGE IN OUR IPODS..... waiting now for the 240GB Classic. Hope they always keep at least one large storage version "in print" even as they expand those Touch Flash pods.

Us real music junkies always need more room. There is NEVER enough space. And if you say it again, that I should just choose playlists, I would respond, you never know what music mood you are in at any given time, so having it all with you is pure bliss!!!

AMEN my brother!!!

I'm pushing 100 GB JUST OF MUSIC on my Macbook (yes all legal)! The scary thing is this just part of my music collection. I have upwards of 1500 CD's and 600+ vinyl albums; I need all the (portable) storage I can get to carry my music with me.

majordude
Sep 15, 2007, 12:22 AM
...considering how bad iPods sound from an Audiophile standpoint...

If you swap out the crappy earphones Apple provides, iPods sound plenty good to me.

Squonk
Sep 15, 2007, 08:37 AM
If you swap out the crappy earphones Apple provides, iPods sound plenty good to me.

Yes, good headphones go a long way to improve the sound. But it does now bring the iPod to the level of say a Mark Levinson CD & DAC combination, nor should it for $300. The key word being audiophile...

On a side note for the audiophiles out there, is there such a thing as a dock with optical or coax digital out so you can take your iPod as an input for a DAC? I do this now with my Airport Express, but I'd like to just dock the pod on the rack of equipment. Thx.

Fluffymuff
Sep 15, 2007, 10:20 AM
Personally I wish magnetic drives would just die, it's like 70 yo technology they're still using.
Actually, magnetic drives have been found in the wreckages of ships dating back to the 1700s. Interesting stuff. Sadly, the platters are too rusted over to retrieve any data, but the technology is almost identical to much of what is used today, just with smaller capacity and more primative OS.

There are even references to magnetic drives in ancient Grecian texts, although that is somewhat controversial since no extant examples have yet been found.


HMMMMMMMMM, somebody somewhere must have done a study, varing for IQ, what's the human brain rated at GB wise?:rolleyes::D:apple:

Brain CPU: Estimates of around 10^14 (100 trillion) to 10^16 instructions per second for an average brain, achievable and affordable around 2030.

Brain Memory: 10^13 to 10^18 (a billion billion) bits. Current trajectories estimate that will be achievable by 2020 for $1000 USD.

By 2050, $1000 will buy more processing power than all brains on Earth combined.

majordude
Sep 15, 2007, 10:38 AM
...nor should it for $300.

Well, to that we all agree! :D

winterspan
Oct 15, 2007, 03:13 PM
Personally I wish magnetic drives would just die, it's like 70 yo technology they're still using. Why is it taking soo long for flash to catch up would be a better question. Toshiba offers a laptop with dual drives, but they max out at 160GB a piece, I'm not sure if anyone makes a 500GB laptop drive to swap in, seagate maxes out at 160, western digital at 250...

"taking so long for flash to catch up" ? Seriously? Flash is moving FAST. Look at flash storage densities over the past 6-7 years, it has truly been astounding. I will find a chart if I can, but I remember when 256MB was an expensive "premium" in an mp3 player. This had to be around 1998. Now days you can pickup an 4,000MB (4GB) card for 1/3 of the price. If you want to pay the price of an early 256MB ($150-$200) you can even pickup a 16,000MB (16GB) card. Thats 62.5X the amount of storage for the same price in less than 10 years. And soon 32GB cards will be out. I don't know if harddisks have moved a whole lot faster than that, but its pretty significant.

winterspan
Oct 15, 2007, 03:31 PM
I'm sorry but its getting to the point that these media devices have more space than our computers. I have a macbook which I upgraded with a 250gig hard drive (The largest currently available). Of which I have about 150gigs of media that could be put onto an iPod. As a mobile computer user I love having everything with me where ever I am. But to fill that I would need an external HD!?!?! It Kind of seems like they should focus more on getting Flash memory into the 30-80gb range for the iPod touch/iPhone before progressing into the 240gb range in the iPod classic.

Saying the words "too much space" is getting into dangerous territory.. lol
About the Ipod/media devices, you have to remember that the 1.8" drives are the same technology as in your laptop, only the drive is a bit bigger at 2.5".
So besides some technical differences accounting for maybe 5-10%, you can usually just determine the ratio of the surface area of a 1.8" HDD to a 2.5" HDD and that will always tell you how much your Ipod will hold vs your laptop.

I actually like that they are somewhat close in that I keep most of my video/music "archived" on my HDD iPod so I don't have to fill up my laptop HDD.

winterspan
Oct 15, 2007, 03:51 PM
i kinda can't wait until HDs are big enough (like 1TB) for no one to really care about it's size, or even comment about it, as it will just hold everything... :rolleyes:

:)

Seriously, all the people on here saying 'thats so much music dude.. how could you listen to it all.. who needs a 200GB ipod???' are missing a few points here.

1) People who have decent stereos DON'T RIP CD'S @ 128kbps MP3 for god sakes. Apple Lossless or FLAC or even PCM takes up *WAY* more space than a 164 or 192 kbps MP3/AAC. Even you kids out there that just use headphones all the time should start thinking about this. Otherwise in 3-5 years you are going to have to rerip all your music when you get a nice system in an apartment/house in college.

2) Have you even seen the file sizes for lossless 5.1 surround sound music? (Live concerts, etc)

3) Video? hello? Even storing DVD quality video for plugging into TV's on an Ipod takes 700MB-1GB for each movie. Imagine a couple of seasons of ONE TV show, 30-45 mins x 50-60 episodes... See where Im going?

3) HD Video! Already alot of broadcast TV shows are 720P. A season of just ONE show can easily take up 8-10GB+. I have about 8 shows that I rip from OTA broadcast, and it already takes a big chunk of my external 300GB.
And just wait until everybody's movies are H264/DivX-HD 1080P with Lossless 7.1 surround. 15-30GB/movie will fill up a 200GB drive quick.

4-5+ years from now, we'll see ALL theater movies being made in 4K digital cinema which is 4X the size of 1080P and I'll bet soon after that we'll start to see 4K HDTV's and 4K "Ultraviolet-RAY" players with discs (and their stored movies) at least 1/2 terabyte or more.

People, you need to learn from the past. Moore's law is going NOWHERE. I bet things only continue to accelerate.

winterspan
Oct 15, 2007, 03:56 PM
Well back to my original post, having just got my new 160GB Classic, there is ONLY slightly more that 148 GB of actual open space after the software :-(

Almost 12GB of "software?" :(

software, format/filesystem overhead, Gigabytes vs Gibibytes aka 1000^3 vs 1024^3

winterspan
Oct 15, 2007, 04:07 PM
Not gonna lie, I see absolutely no need for a drive that large in a device such as the iPod, but fantastic for all of those that would want this.

I'd rather see more focus put on NAND and get those up to in size.

about "no need" for such a drive, see my other post about lossless music,
lossless 5.1 surround concerts, DVD quality video storage, and most importantly, HD 720P/1080P 5.1 lossless surround movies/television shows? It only takes a little bit of each to fill a 160GB ipod, TRUST ME. Maybe you don't buy/record television shows or movies, but I would assume most people do. And many don't like storing hundreds of CD's and DVDs in your living room (or in your pocket).

winterspan
Oct 15, 2007, 04:23 PM
Why are we still focusing on improving this technology? I mean, yes it's useful now, if they mass produced the second they got it out, but shouldn't technology that focuses on mobile devices concentrate more on enlarging more long lasting technology like flash, compact flash, and solid state? Laptops are going thin and iPods/other mp3 devices are everywhere; since people want lighter, quicker, and more space, wouldn't it make more sense to invest the R&D money into technologies that will be replacing this sort of thing?
- Kira

You act as if all the companies doing technology research are in collaboration with each other with a central committee making all the decisions.
The HardDisk manufacturers who do alot of the HDD R&D are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the companies who do most of the Flash memory R&D / manufacturing. The HDD companies are working as fast as possible to keep their devices' storage density/capacities up and costs down, and the flash manufacturers are trying to do the same to catch up and replace most of the HDD industry.
Just like with nearly all industries, it's basic FREE MARKET supply and demand that controls what technology gets made and how much R&D dollars go where. For now, the benefits of Flash memory (higher speed, solid state nature, etc) don't come near the much lower cost and higher storage capacities of hard disk drives. At some point in the future, if flash prices per MB come alot closer to that of HDDs, then the demand of the market will drive their sales and the doom of HDDs, unless HDD manufacturers have a large capacity advantage. I'm rambling now, but I hope you are getting my point.
There is no "technology research" supreme council that decides where the R&D money goes or what products are produced.

winterspan
Oct 15, 2007, 04:31 PM
considering how bad iPods sound from an Audiophile standpoint, iPods definitely have room for improvement. songs are going to get bigger and sound better. can't wait for the day....

probably 15% of my music library is full quality wav files.

so eventually we'll need a 240GB iPod to hold a normal library.

You should go Apple Lossless or even better go with the "free" FLAC format, it'll cut down your WAV's quite a bit.