Panther 7B39

[MacRumors]

Panther 7B39 has been released to developers.

The latest seed brings further bug-fixes and stability to the upcoming version of Mac OS X. Visual changes are few... with a revised About box, as well as the public inclusion of the Bluetooth options for the Mouse and Keyboard.

The Bluetooth Keyboard/Mouse control panel had been inactive but present (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030627183617.shtml) in previous English versions of Panther. While many speculate on Apple's launch of such a product, it could simply provide support for 3rd party Bluietooth devices, such as the new Belkin Bluetooth mouse (http://www.marketwire.com/mw/release_html_b1?release_id=56330) mentioned last week on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com).

MacNews.net.tc (http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=10&t=199) provides a list of changed components.

[AppleMatt]

Hooray! As soon as I get home I'll be downloading...

AppleMatt

[CmdrLaForge]

A simple question:

Can Panther 10.3 be installed as an update over a current 10.2 ?

Or is it necessary to format the drive and install the OS from scratch ?

Cheers
CmdrLaForge

[AppleMatt]

Yes it can, but when I did it (with the very first seed), I had numerous problems with certain applications getting the generic icon and crashing upon launch.

Also my benchmarks were slower for an update over a clean install.

We're a number of builds along now though, perhaps Apple have sorted these problems.

AppleMatt

[themadchemist]

You know what guys? I'm still using 10.1.5.

And the computer with that is packed away in a storage facility waiting for me to get back to school.

Right now, I'm on WINDOWS 98SE! R0X0RZ! :D

[etoiles]

Originally posted by themadchemist
You know what guys? I'm still using 10.1.5.

And the computer with that is packed away in a storage facility waiting for me to get back to school.

Right now, I'm on WINDOWS 98SE! R0X0RZ! :D

aaah, nothing like a little bit of self inflicted pain from time to time...:p

[bennetsaysargh]

i need CDRs :(
i had 7A202 and labeled the 7B28 disc the wrong thing, so it wouldn't boot:(
keep the CD's name in tact or it won't boot to install!

[daveL]

Both US sites are full. At least now the ADC download site is setting a threshold for max number of users; you get a "maximum connections reached, try again later message". I'm currently getting good rates from Japan.

[vrapan]

hope they fixed the address book bluetooth problem and safari became more stable.... but i dont complain i maxed out the mem of the pb and it is now flying :D my apple switching experience gets better. i love XCode!!!! hope they fixed it a bit too... can't wait to install that little kitty

[AppleMatt]

All I want is Graphics and OpenGl performance above and beyond Jaguar, currently both are below.

I really hope there are major improvments by GM.

AppleMatt

[AhmedFaisal]

Is Apple finally getting the hint that just supporting USB Dongles is quite rude to all Pre-Aluminum Powerbook owners who DO have PC-Card slots? I seriously hate the Dongles and and finally want to be able to use the 3com Bluetooth PC-Card (with retractable antenna) from my PC Notebook in my Powerbook. That is the one thing I think PCs have in advantage to Apples right now.
Cheers,

Ahmed

[Pale Rider]

I just want SMB support to be restored.

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by CmdrLaForge

Or is it necessary to format the drive and install the OS from scratch ?
Cheers, CmdrLaForge
I've heard bad things about upgrading, but I doubt you have to reinstall. With OS X v10.2 anyway you can do a 'clean install' which can store your prefs, files, etc. away, reinstall, and move most of 'em back.

[akac]

Originally posted by AppleMatt
All I want is Graphics and OpenGl performance above and beyond Jaguar, currently both are below.

I really hope there are major improvments by GM.

AppleMatt

Everything I've heard from people running Panther say that all games they've run on Panther run 10-20 fps faster than Jag on the same hardware. So it seems it IS way above Jag. Just perhaps not on your hardware.

I'd be interested in knowing what hardware you are using.

[vrapan]

I've heard bad things about upgrading, but I doubt you have to reinstall. With OS X v10.2 anyway you can do a 'clean install' which can store your prefs, files, etc. away, reinstall, and move most of 'em back.

I think that would be Archive and Install. From 10.2.6 to WWDC it worked. but from WWDC to 7B21 nothing worked apart from Clean install ie wipe out HD and install but then from 7B21 to 7B28 it was flawless... I hope form 7B28 to 7B39 will be the same

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by akac
I'd be interested in knowing what hardware you are using.

I've tried it on 12" PowerBook, Beige G3 (only WWDC build) and a DP 500MHz PowerMac G4.

Same results every time...consistently lower :(

AppleMatt

[akac]

Originally posted by AppleMatt
I've tried it on 12" PowerBook, Beige G3 (only WWDC build) and a DP 500MHz PowerMac G4.

Same results every time...consistently lower :(

AppleMatt

Hm. I know there are even threads about this on MacNN how games are running so much faster. Did you do an update? Clean Install? Archive install?

I guess the next question is - what graphics card? The PB 12'' sure - we know that one. But what about the other 2?

I know for myself on my Dual 1.25 with a 9000 I saw about 10fps extra in UT2003.

[vrapan]

Actually in my 12" PB Warcraft 3 seems a bit faster than it did with Jaguar... Haven't played anything else yet but with 7B28 warcraft runs better

[tizza]

One would expect that whatever h/w changes are coming in the new PB's they will be optimised for Panther too - but if they do come out this Tue, I'll be amazed if Panther is pre-loaded ...

[Powerbook G5]

Whether it is preloaded or not, I know for sure that the day Panther comes out, I'll be in line for my copy.

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by akac
I guess the next question is - what graphics card? The PB 12'' sure - we know that one. But what about the other 2?

I know for myself on my Dual 1.25 with a 9000 I saw about 10fps extra in UT2003.

Various, we tried 3 I believe, but all ATi. Also clean installs (there's no point benching an upgrade). It's not just me saying this either, I've had loads of convos with people dissapointed with the graphics performance.

Did you record the increase? Type "stat fps" after typing tilde. Based on my experience so far, all I can say is that it's the same as the people who are saying the Virtual PC 6.1 update has given them a 15% speed boost.

AppleMatt

[Powerbook G5]

Keep in mind that this is the beta version of Panther, so it's hard to say what the final version will perform like compared to now.

[akac]

Originally posted by AppleMatt
Various, we tried 3 I believe, but all ATi. Also clean installs (there's no point benching an upgrade). It's not just me saying this either, I've had loads of convos with people dissapointed with the graphics performance.

Did you record the increase? Type "stat fps" after typing tilde. Based on my experience so far, all I can say is that it's the same as the people who are saying the Virtual PC 6.1 update has given them a 15% speed boost.

AppleMatt

ACtually yes. Running benchmarks on the same machine - show that Panther's graphics on my system are anywhere from 50% to 100% faster in some specific areas.

OpenGL shows to be much slower, but then running UT3 I get around 10 fps more. And yes, that's going by the UT FPS stats.

So...I guess my point is, it does seem to be a lot faster in many many areas. But there also seems to be some issues that obviously you are hitting. Its weird, but that's why this is not released - still beta.

[AppleMatt]

My UI scores are through the roof from Jaguar, 90-120% higher, which is very impressive. It's not all bad!

OpenGL and Quartz are the main offenders one my machines too. Anyway I'm sure Apple will get it sorted. Until then I've used the OpenAL update for UT2003.

AppleMatt

[gopher]

Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
A simple question:

Can Panther 10.3 be installed as an update over a current 10.2 ?

Or is it necessary to format the drive and install the OS from scratch ?

Cheers
CmdrLaForge

Because Apple recognized the success of Archive and Install (see kbase article 107120) I'm sure they will keep at least that option open when you upgrade. It is a boon to troubleshooting problems that happen when the system preferences get corrupted.

[SiliconAddict]

Question on OS installs. In the Windows world it’s usually a good idea when upgrading to the next OS to format and start the install from a clean slate.
What is the best method for OSX? Do most just people upgrade or blow everything away?

Heh I haven't even gotten a Mac yet and I'm already wondering what's going to show up after Panther. :D

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Question on OS installs. In the Windows world it’s usually a good idea when upgrading to the next OS to format and start the install from a clean slate.
What is the best method for OSX? Do most just people upgrade or blow everything away?

Heh I haven't even gotten a Mac yet and I'm already wondering what's going to show up after Panther. :D

I think most people on MacRumors will do a clean install so they start off the new OS in tip top condition. Additionally, I think that some of us find it sadistically fun to reinstall all of our software and reload all our music and pictures. I don't know, maybe its just me.

God I am weird.....:)

[Chealion]

Why have some people voted this as negative news?

The Mac OS is great in that it works very well installing the new OS over top. I know I used Archive and Install for 10.2 install and it worked perfectly :)

[punter]

I'll be installing panther over the top of jaguar. I trust it to install correctly and be optimised. It's never let me down before :)

I don't have time to reinstall things.

[gopher]

Originally posted by punter
I'll be installing panther over the top of jaguar. I trust it to install correctly and be optimised. It's never let me down before :)

I don't have time to reinstall things.

Just be sure to ONLY do this with the final release version of Panther. The Preview release's readme says you can't install the final release on top of it.

[Catfish_Man]

Panther makes a LOT of changes involving OpenGL (including the 2d on Quartz Extreme thing that no one will talk about), so it makes sense that it may not be so great right now. Wait and see, and whine about it if the final version still sucks.

[gordyt]

Greetings All!

Several things fixed for me with this build..

1. With the last couple of builds I had to disable Bluetooth to keep the Address Book from crashing. That problem has been fixed.

2. iSync is working again. Note: When I did the 7B39 install I was watching everything very carefully. I noticed that the iSync installation logged some errors during the main install. So after the main install completed I plugged back in the #2 install disk, browsed around and found the iSync installation, then ran it again.

3. iTunes no longer crashes when I plug in an iPod.

4. With the last build (7B28), Mail.app would crash sometimes when I would reply to an email. So far that hasn't happened.

So things do seem to be improving!

--gordy

[ultrafiel]

Originally posted by Freg3000
I think most people on MacRumors will do a clean install so they start off the new OS in tip top condition. Additionally, I think that some of us find it sadistically fun to reinstall all of our software and reload all our music and pictures. I don't know, maybe its just me.

God I am weird.....:)

I must be sadistic also, because it is sort of fun to do that. I plan on transferring all my files onto my firewire drive, then erase my hard drives, clean install the os and all apps, then stick my files back on. Of course I get some benefits from this as I'll be using the system on a faster HD then, but setting up prefs again won't be fun. But all the strange junk that has creeped on will be gone. Then I'll make a disk image of the newly installed drive for future reference. Doesn't that sound painfully fun?

[mstecker]

I'm a great believer in full reinstalls. It forces your to have the discipline to keep the things you want on a fileserver that gets backed up.

As things stand today, I can completely blow away any of my 4 macs, install from scratch, and be back to full speed in a few hours.

This brings me incredible piece of mind - a drive crashes? No problem. A machine blows up? No problem.

I have a cluster of Linux servers, all with their data on RAID arrays, all backed up nightly via a robotic tape drive. That's the only way to true piece of mind.

[ryaxnb]

Doing a 'archive' install or perhaps a full 'clean' install is probably the best way to update. 'Archive' installs save most settings and docs, and don't reformat the HD.
P.S. I've had experience with Windows machines, and though I've had to completely reinstall some:mad: I haven't had to do much reformatting.

[h00ligan]

one thing i am wondering is this.

Is apple making the developers download and install each new build, or are they offering the updates through the software update?

[rubikcube]

They have to download all 4 cd's then install. It was a pretty painful process the first time I did it, but it's getting easier.

[CmdrLaForge]

Originally posted by ryaxnb
I've heard bad things about upgrading, but I doubt you have to reinstall. With OS X v10.2 anyway you can do a 'clean install' which can store your prefs, files, etc. away, reinstall, and move most of 'em back.

Hi

sounds good but how does that work ?

When I original setup my iBook I just had one disk with all the apps e.g. iLife on it.

What do you think is the upgrade price from 10.2 ?

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by Freg3000
I don't know, maybe its just me.

Not just you...I wouldn't say I do it for fun, instead of a friday night out, but whenever I get a new build or feel clogged up out the CD's come.

Originally posted by Chealion
Why have some people voted this as negative news?

Some people don't like the fact that NDA stuff has been leaked to the "outside world", which is fair enough.

Originally posted by Catfish_Man
Panther makes a LOT of changes involving OpenGL (including the 2d on Quartz Extreme thing that no one will talk about)

...please talk about it...

AppleMatt

[SkipNewarkDE]

Does this seed fix iSync? Everytime I try to use it, I am told that this is an expired version of iSync and that I need to download a new one... And I am using the one which came WITH the seed, version 1.2.

[gordyt]

Hi SkipNewarkDE,

Originally posted by SkipNewarkDE
Does this seed fix iSync? Everytime I try to use it, I am told that this is an expired version of iSync and that I need to download a new one... And I am using the one which came WITH the seed, version 1.2.

yep! take a look at my post earlier in this thread for a list of things that are working now for me. i was very glad to have iSync working again! :-)

--gordy

[h00ligan]

anyone know if toast is working again yet?

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
Hi

sounds good but how does that work ?

It probably puts them into a disk image (file that pretends to be a disk), or moves them to another spot on the HD. Then, after installing, it moves them back.
P.S. In response to the Panther upgrade price question, apparently it's going to cost a full $129. :(
Edit: Fixed spelling problem.