Biggest threat to the American way of life

[Iscariot]

Colin Powell has this to say:

"What is the greatest threat facing us now? People will say it's terrorism. But are there any terrorists in the world who can change the American way of life or our political system? No… So what is the great threat we are facing?”

So, in your opinion, what is the greatest threat(s) to the American (and also to an extent Canadian and perhaps the existing first world's) way of life?

[Blue Velvet]

Financial collapse, resource scarcity and environmental changes. Or failing that, a nuclear war. Sleep tight.

[Thomas Veil]

1. Home-grown fascism.

2. Runaway capitalism, particularly its heavy influence on government.

[EricNau]

Biggest threat to the American way of life?

Diets. :D

[Iscariot]

Biggest threat to the American way of life?

Diets. :D

Cheeky!

[zimv20]

what is the greatest threat(s) to the American way of life?

fear and the subsequent over-reaction.

[CorvusCamenarum]

I'm going to vote for the strangling destruction of the family. It's Marx's dream come true.

[dswoodley]

fear and the subsequent over-reaction.

Zimv! long time no read!

The US must stop thinking it needs to micromanage the world. When that happens, the future might look a lot more promising.

[.Andy]

Americans?

[it5five]

Americans?

Republican Americans.

[Peterkro]

What exactly is the "American way of life"?

[solvs]

What exactly is the "American way of life"?
The biggest threat to America.

We could keep going around like this all night.

[dswoodley]

Republican Americans.

ideologues, in general, I would say...

[Swarmlord]

Incremental socialism followed by terrorism.

[Blue Velvet]

Incremental socialism...

Hilarious, but funnily enough, true. Because your political system is paralysed by corporate and military-industrial interests who are quite happy to take public funds to feather their own nests.

The corporate welfare state. More pork, anyone?

[dswoodley]

What exactly is the "American way of life"?

Praying someone will spill hot coffee on you, dent your car, fail to mark the floor is wet - then, when you're injured, you can sue the holy hell out of them, buy that nice little resort in Cabo and retire on your hard-litigated millions. That's the American way of life today...

[Queso]

Common sense?

[imac/cheese]

Biggest threat to the American way of life?

Diets. :D

That made me laugh. The first thing I thought of was banning trans-fats.

[Ugg]

Hilarious, but funnily enough, true. Because your political system is paralysed by corporate and military-industrial interests who are quite happy to take public funds to feather their own nests.

The corporate welfare state. More pork, anyone?

He inhabits a dream world.

I think the rise of the oligarchs, not only in the US but around the world is the biggest threat to America.

It's funny how corporate welfare is seen as empowering to many Americans even though it means higher prices and less control over their personal lives as well as higher taxes for the lower and middle classes.

Some people just didn't pay attention in math class...

[leekohler]

He inhabits a dream world.

I think the rise of the oligarchs, not only in the US but around the world is the biggest threat to America.

It's funny how corporate welfare is seen as empowering to many Americans even though it means higher prices and less control over their personal lives as well as higher taxes for the lower and middle classes.

Some people just didn't pay attention in math class...

Is that what happened to Swarmy? :) I agree though- laissez-faire capitalism is the biggest threat at the moment. We need some balance.

[Stampyhead]

I'm going to vote for the strangling destruction of the family. It's Marx's dream come true.

I second that...

[Blue Velvet]

I'm going to vote for the strangling destruction of the family. It's Marx's dream come true.

Could you please expand on that? Because I'm not sure where you are coming from with such an elliptical statement. Is your family being strangled? If so, by what exactly?

[leekohler]

Could you please expand on that? Because I'm not sure where you are coming from with such an elliptical statement. Is your family being strangled? If so, by what exactly?

Yeah- I'd like some clarification as well. That can be misconstrued.

[Swarmlord]

Hilarious, but funnily enough, true. Because your political system is paralysed by corporate and military-industrial interests who are quite happy to take public funds to feather their own nests.

The corporate welfare state. More pork, anyone?

We function pretty well at the top of the world food chain for a country that's "paralysed".

Military-industrial interests feathering their nests with public funds? Take a look at who imposed the zillion regulations and tests that every product that is sold to the government has to go through.

[Blue Velvet]

We function pretty well at the top of the world food chain for a country that's "paralysed".


But do you? Personally, I don't think the US is at the top of any 'food-chain'. It doesn't come at the top of life-expectancy, wealth per capita, nor even overall happiness or life-satisfaction.

The use of the phrase 'food-chain' is very telling about how you see the world and those around you.

All around the world, many nations are turning away from the US as a form of political or moral leader on so many issues, although I don't expect that to be so noticed in the insularity of much of what I hear. This thoughtful piece (http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/tim_watkin/2007/09/the_world_left_the_us_behind.html) I was reading a few days ago sums up my feelings, and even though it's in The Guardian, it's no polemic. Give it a go.

Edit: I also noted that your political system seems currently paralysed, not the country itself.

[PlaceofDis]

I'm going to vote for the strangling destruction of the family. It's Marx's dream come true.

i doubt Marx would've ever wanted that personally....

but financial collapse, fascism, dictatorship, fear, big corporations.

[latergator116]

But do you? Personally, I don't think the US is at the top of any 'food-chain'. It doesn't come at the top of life-expectancy, wealth per capita, nor even overall happiness or life-satisfaction.

The use of the phrase 'food-chain' is very telling about how you see the world and those around you.


Yeah, but we can bomb the crap out of your country! :rolleyes:

[Blue Velvet]

Yeah, but we can bomb the crap out of your country! :rolleyes:

That would be a shame. Pity I don't live there any more. :D

[Desertrat]

The material part of the way of life in the U.S. is based on cheap energy, and particularly on low-cost transportation.

Increase those costs and there's no telling which direction social forces will follow.

We've legislated ourselves into higher energy costs than might have been the case. We've debased our currency and we've created government subsidies beyond our ability to pay.

Current events are laying the groundwork for the proverbial "Man on the White Horse", although it's a tossup whether it will be Gee or Haw on the politics. Our willingness to trade liberty for safety/security does not bode well, in either case.

'Rat

[CorvusCamenarum]

i doubt Marx would've ever wanted that personally....

but financial collapse, fascism, dictatorship, fear, big corporations.

Marx actually talks about this very point in chapter 2 of the Communist Manifesto. He argues that families are based on capitalism (property/inheritance rights and whatnot). Destroy the family and you destroy the capitalism associated with it, which according the Marx will pave the way for Communism to take hold.

For more reading, go have a look at Plato's Republic. It's very clear that Marx took a lot of his ideas from Plato.

[PlaceofDis]

Marx actually talks about this very point in chapter 2 of the Communist Manifesto. He argues that families are based on capitalism (property/inheritance rights and whatnot). Destroy the family and you destroy the capitalism associated with it, which according the Marx will pave the way for Communism to take hold.

For more reading, go have a look at Plato's Republic. It's very clear that Marx took a lot of his ideas from Plato.

i've read the Manifesto, but i think he was talking more about the institution that is the family and not the connections that are made in the family. as in marriage and its archaic traditions along with the way families work as a separate entity within a community rather than a joining of people with the community. if that makes sense.

[CorvusCamenarum]

i've read the Manifesto, but i think he was talking more about the institution that is the family and not the connections that are made in the family. as in marriage and its archaic traditions along with the way families work as a separate entity within a community rather than a joining of people with the community. if that makes sense.

How do you separate the two? I find it rather difficult. That aside, you make my point for me. We have a divorce rate of near half (no-fault is anything but) and a growing epidemic of fathers, and to a lesser extent mothers being (in some cases forcibly) separated from their children. We also have managed to create a culture in which a growing number of people have no desire to marry at all for various reasons. I'd say marriage and family as we know them are already on their deathbeds.

I'd write more, because I have a great deal to say on the subject, but I have to leave for work pretty soon.

[Blue Velvet]

...We also have managed to create a culture in which a growing number of people have no desire to marry at all for various reasons.

Thank god for that. We're moving beyond narrow patriarchal definitions of what the term 'family' means, which may just happen to serve us better in post-industrial societies and communities.

[SMM]

greed

[skunk]

Americans.

[Ugg]

Thank god for that. We're moving beyond narrow patriarchal definitions of what the term 'family' means, which may just happen to serve us better in post-industrial societies and communities.

It's interesting that some of the happiest and wealthiest people with the most democratic and stable governments have the lowest marriage rate. Scandinavia has moved beyond traditional marriage as the defining element of a family. Support for families means exactly that, not forcing people into some archaic and destructive religious contract.

[wonga1127]

Smoke and mirrors, dollar slavery, neocons, National ID Card, the military industrial complex, and endless wars.

[Daveman Deluxe]

How about the fact that we trust truthiness more than truth?

[Desertrat]

One big problem for the whole Marx shtick is that he was an agrarian-style thinker, but the industrial revolution was getting underway. That revolution pretty much erased any value for his ideas and notions about how the world would begin to work.

China is a good modern example of how things improve for poor people when you get away from Marxist/Socialist nonsense. We're fortunate in that we've had this recent fifty years of direct observation of the changes there.

Blue Velvet, I doubt that it's all that important that a nuclear family be patriarchal as to hierarchy, but for sure the kids are a helluva lot better off when some form of nuclear family exists.

:), 'Rat

[Blue Velvet]

China is a good modern example of how things improve for poor people when you get away from Marxist/Socialist nonsense.

Gotta call that out. Do you have any idea what's happening to the rural and urban poor in China?

[mactastic]

Greed.

[Queso]

Gotta call that out. Do you have any idea what's happening to the rural and urban poor in China?
Or for that matter the Chinese environment?

[FrankBlack]

Hmm, the biggest threat? tough question. I'd love to see this question put to college sociology class, and let them have at it. Anyway, my answers,,

-The destruction of the middle class. Let's fact it, there is no more middle class. This goes in hand with;

-The end of our manufacturing based economy. The replacement of factory type jobs with low-wage jobs, and glossing this over by saying such brilliant things as "we're moving towards a service based economy". (see quick note below)

-The lack of any new housing stock being built for working class people. I forsee massive slums throughout the country.

-Overcrowding. Over-population. Ever see "Soylent Green"? Some days I wonder if the day might come when I'll spend the day waiting in a long line for rationed water.

-Agree with Tom Veil on internal fascism. It's a little disturbing to actually hear people say "Well I don't care, as long at they keep me safe from terrorists!". People should be really careful, and think about the "I don't care" bit. The Terrorists just might turn out to be white men in business suits.

-And of coure, nuclear war. I grew up with this constant threat. It hasn't gone away.

Quick note: A question, actually. Is it true that the government now counts burger-flipping jobs as manufacturing jobs? The apparent logic being that you are "assembling" a hamburger, so if a McDonald's opens up, we can we added X number of manufacturing jobs.

For Blue Velvet: "You'll see me one more time, if you do good. You'll see me two more times, if you do bad.";)

[Blue Velvet]

For Blue Velvet: "You'll see me one more time, if you do good. You'll see me two more times, if you do bad.";)

Ride 'em, cowboy. ;)

[srf4real]

The biggest threat to America's way of life? Easy. The war on drugs.;)

[adrianblaine]

What exactly is the "American way of life"?

Exactly. There is no "one" way to live an American life. I do believe it changes every 100 years or so though, beginning with everyone wanting religious freedom. Then everyone wanted their own cheap piece of property to farm etc....

Who knows what it is nowadays. I would agree with those here who say fuel prices will bring about the end of the current American way of life. Everything is dependent on cheap fuel and we are not prepared to be without it.

[shu82]

-Agree with Tom Veil on internal fascism. It's a little disturbing to actually hear people say "Well I don't care, as long at they keep me safe from terrorists!". People should be really careful, and think about the "I don't care" bit. The Terrorists just might turn out to be white men in business suits.



Good to hear. I love that old Ben Franklin quote on the same lines. But lay off white men in business suits.;)

Greed is good, and lay off the Military Industrio Complex. We are the best in the world at that, and its one of our last great manufacturing sectors.

[Iscariot]

What exactly is the "American way of life"?

I essentially mean the current status quo, but chose my words to present it in a positive light, as "status quo" is more commonly used when making a negative reference.

So yes, things like large houses, Wal-Mart, safety from foreign threats (arguable, in comparison to the third world), etc. that are unique to America, Cananda, and most other first world nations. That which we have access to that others do not.

[Desertrat]

Blue Velvet, I'm strictly talking about material enhancement. China for sure has come a long way from Mao's "Great Leap Forward" to it's present status as the world's largest consumer of steel and cement, and the largest market for Gucci, Rolex and Mercedes.

An economy which grows at some nine or ten percent per year is record-setting--and that's been going on for over a decade.

Yeah, they have several hundred million still in poverty. Even so, they have several hundred million way above that poverty level--which is helluva big jump from Mao's time when almost all but the party bosses were in poverty.

Education? They graduate more engineers, annually, than we have graduating all our universities. Just the engineers! (Around 500,000/yr.)

dynamicv, as to pollution, I note that around 20 or 30 years ago, Tokyo had the worst air quality of any city in the world. That's no longer the case. Given what is being done, now, in China with respect to electric generating, they have good odds of reducing air quality problems.

Sure, China ain't perfect. They have a long way to go and they have serious problems. But their successes illustrate what can be done when fraudulent, socialistic notions of managing an economy are tossed out.

And they're building their structure with much higher cost energy than the US built its--which is why I earlier pointed out that no matter what idea anybody has about "the American way of life", cheap energy is what enabled any and all aspects of it. The end of cheap energy is what will bring about major socioeconomic changes here, not liberals/conservatives/corporations/yada-yada-yada...

'Rat

[Iscariot]

But their successes illustrate what can be done when fraudulent, socialistic notions of managing an economy are tossed out.

While I agree with you on point regarding socialism as an overall economic approach, your other posts and signature seem to indicate that you believe that socialism is the incorrect approach to managing any public system. I would argue that socialism has proved itself to be empirically more successful in managing healthcare, education and other public systems than the alternatives, but I also admit my bias on these subjects as a Canadian. While I realize that this is largely off-topic, I would love for you to expound your views on the aforementioned, if you please.

[leekohler]

While I agree with you on point regarding socialism as an overall economic approach, your other posts and signature seem to indicate that you believe that socialism is the incorrect approach to managing any public system. I would argue that socialism has proved itself to be empirically more successful in managing healthcare, education and other public systems than the alternatives, but I also admit my bias on these subjects as a Canadian. While I realize that this is largely off-topic, I would love for you to expound your views on the aforementioned, if you please.

So would I. If China is graduating more engineers than we are, that would suggest we're doing something wrong, now wouldn't it?

[LethalWolfe]

So would I. If China is graduating more engineers than we are, that would suggest we're doing something wrong, now wouldn't it?

It depends if we are talking raw numbers or per capita.


Lethal

[Iscariot]

So would I. If China is graduating more engineers than we are, that would suggest we're doing something wrong, now wouldn't it?

They also have a larger population pool to draw from, a larger demand for that particular occupation, or that an engineering degree is extra cheap :3

[leekohler]

an engineering degree is extra cheap :3

You win the prize.

[Iscariot]

You win the prize.

Sweet. So am I now a practicing engineer, or a technician?

[imac/cheese]

-The destruction of the middle class. Let's fact it, there is no more middle class.

I am always a bit confused by statements like these. Nearly everyone I know is middle class. I know a handful of poor people and I know of a few rich people, but everyone else falls somewhere in the middle. Teachers, engineers, college professors, plumbers, contractors, electricians, policemen, lawyers, pastors, servicemen, students etc... they are all middle class. I am aware that the five states I have lived in over the past ten years are by no means a perfect cross section of all of America and I have not live in any major cities, but to say that there is no more middle class is simply not true.

[Desertrat]

Iscariot, let it suffice for the moment that I'm against the concept of central planning for an economy. I don't trust elitists who claim to know how to boss a society. And I'm strongly supportive of entrepreneurial ways of being economically self-sufficient.

Demise of the middle class? Well, there certainly are problems for it. The buying power has been in decline since the early 1970s, which doesn't help matters. Our tax structure has led many rather-be housewives to enter the workplace in order to maintain that middle-class lifestyle. And, last, the middle class is the most vulnerable to such things as lawsuits. The rich can afford the best lawyers; the poor have little to lose. People of the middle class can be seriously hurt by the costs of lawsuits--as well as have their jobs affected. It's the usual "A little here, a little there; pretty soon it all adds up to that proverbial last straw." And outsourcing has been a large impact on the emiddle class.

Back to the China thing for a moment: They are gaining percentage in sales into world markets, and creating their own consumer class. They're in a position of trade surplus, vice our deficit. They're buying--for cash--right at half the world supply of steel and cement, and still adding to their savings accounts and central bank deposits. Twenty years ago they were picking poop with the chickens. Any allegiance to "socialism" or "communism" is purely lip service politics. They've returned to their historical entrepreneurial capitalism for which they were well known in the pre-Mao days.

'Rat

[mactastic]

Health insurance costs are also killing the middle class, along with the disparity between the pay of the CEO versus the average worker. A bigger problem is that the middle class has been asked for years to wait for the trickle to come down from the deliberate transfer of wealth to the most well-off among us. So far, such a trickle has yet to emerge; yet we are assured it is around the corner.

The rich get richer, and the poor and middle class get poorer. Works great for the rich until the pitchforks come out...

[shu82]

I would not say health insurance costs are killing the middle class. Everyone I know who graduated from college got a job where their employer gave them either free or discounted insurance. Of course that means you have to work until you die or until medicare kicks in. Its still real nice. My wife's whole pregnancy will only cost us $400. Everything has been top shelf with the doctors the whole time.

I did have a time in grad school when I was on my own, without insurance. There would be no way I would pay for it. I would rather roll the dice. I did have to have my brother the nurse, give me stitches.

[SMM]

Good to hear. I love that old Ben Franklin quote on the same lines. But lay off white men in business suits.;)

Greed is good, and lay off the Military Industrio Complex. We are the best in the world at that, and its one of our last great manufacturing sectors.

No one has to 'lay off' anything. This is not your personal forum, where other people need your approval to post their ideas.

Greed absolutely sucks. It has created a society, apathetic to the common welfare of all. Fortunately, many people have the personal convictions to ignore it. I notice you are from Huntsville. That area thrives on 'military welfare', AKA the military industrial complex (MIC). It is by far, the most loathsome entity ever invented to rip-off the public. I can see where you might draw a beneficial correlation between the merits of greed, and a warm feeling for the MIC.

[LethalWolfe]

I would not say health insurance costs are killing the middle class. Everyone I know who graduated from college got a job where their employer gave them either free or discounted insurance. Of course that means you have to work until you die or until medicare kicks in. Its still real nice. My wife's whole pregnancy will only cost us $400. Everything has been top shelf with the doctors the whole time.
I'd count yer blessings then that not only are you not one of the $47 million (and growing) Americans w/o health insurance but you also appear to be at one of the shrinking number of jobs where the employer hasn't cut back on medial benefits.

I did have a time in grad school when I was on my own, without insurance. There would be no way I would pay for it. I would rather roll the dice.
Considering temporary health insurance that just covers "big stuff" isn't very expensive the risk/reward of going w/o coverage isn't worth it, IMO. The number one cause of bankruptcy in the US is medical debt.


Lethal

[shu82]

I really do not appreciate the term "welfare" being used to describe what I spend 70 hours a week doing for our country. I come from a family of engineers and we have been working with the gov't for almost 60 years, since the day we arrived here. I give my all to what I do, and I don't like being compared to some tramp who makes babies to increase her check.

I have a boy on the way right now, and he is the only one of his generation to carry my family's name. I am not too worried about the world around him. I don't even have or want cable. (Large library for us) I don't believe I will even allow him the internet until he is 10, about the same time he gets his first 22 rifle.

I truly do not believe that I am "Lucky" by having health insurance. I do not know anyone with a middle class (college required) job without something. My company pays 14K a year for my family and this justifies my lower pay.

I don't know what the american dream is but my wife and I are pretty happy. I will do anything to keep it that way.

[shikimo]

One big problem for the whole Marx shtick is that he was an agrarian-style thinker, but the industrial revolution was getting underway. That revolution pretty much erased any value for his ideas and notions about how the world would begin to work.

Marxist ideas have in one way or another profoundly influenced the work of important theorists across the spectrum of social sciences and the humanities. Take out the Marxist influence on, just take a few examples, modern sociology, psychology, economics and even art history and the world would be a very different place indeed. Structuralism, psychoanalytic theory, positivism and rhetorical/performative analysis would never have happened without Marx. You can argue that the world would be a better place without Marx if you like--I'm not taking a position on that question--but the idea that Marxist thought was not innovative, important and worthy of the considerable attention scholars continue to give it to this day because he didn't fully grasp the magnitude of the IR is simply indefensible.

Back to the China thing for a moment: They are gaining percentage in sales into world markets, and creating their own consumer class. They're in a position of trade surplus, vice our deficit. They're buying--for cash--right at half the world supply of steel and cement, and still adding to their savings accounts and central bank deposits. Twenty years ago they were picking poop with the chickens. Any allegiance to "socialism" or "communism" is purely lip service politics. They've returned to their historical entrepreneurial capitalism for which they were well known in the pre-Mao days.

'Rat

Please tell us which pre-Mao 'capitalist' era you are talking about, and by whom it is 'well known.' Do you mean the period between the fall of the last Manchu emperor in 1911 and the Japanese occupation, the occupation years themselves or the brief and brutal period between the end of the war and the Maoist revolution? Surely you don't refer to the Qing dynasty itself--unless the opening of the Chinese opium market by British gunboats counts as free enterprise--and the idea of free-market capitalism didn't exist before then, so you must mean one of the above...

...it's true that the Chinese government itself has framed its economic development in the language of a return to past values, but there is simply no evidence to support this position. What's more, one of the first things students learn in Chinese studies is that this a recurrent trope throughout the history of the Middle Kingdom; from the earliest written texts in Chinese (dating at least 2400 years back, depending on what you call a 'text') right through the language of the current administration there is a consistent effort to tie current woes/successes to the glory of past eras, either by claiming a return to past glory or (more commonly) to underscore how far current leadership has strayed from the path. The economic numbers you cite are impressive, sure, but don't invent historical context for them where there isn't any. The debate as to whether or not China is the poster child for Adam Smith economics is complicated, confusing and far from settled.

[CorvusCamenarum]

No one has to 'lay off' anything. This is not your personal forum, where other people need your approval to post their ideas.

Greed absolutely sucks. It has created a society, apathetic to the common welfare of all. Fortunately, many people have the personal convictions to ignore it. I notice you are from Huntsville. That area thrives on 'military welfare', AKA the military industrial complex (MIC). It is by far, the most loathsome entity ever invented to rip-off the public. I can see where you might draw a beneficial correlation between the merits of greed, and a warm feeling for the MIC.

You might do well to take notice that there is a lot more to Huntsville than just Redstone, contrary to what you seem to think. The Marshall Space Flight Center (NASA) and Cummings Research Park (4th largest research park in the world) come to mind.

A quick search of milltary bases by state shows that my state (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/statefacts/blal.htm) and your state (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/statefacts/blwa.htm) have just about equal numbers of military personnel, with your state having roughly twice as many installations. That's just the military side of things; it doesn't take into account companies like Boeing, who has a fairly close relationship with the Pentagon and the bulk of their operations in your state.

I guess it's fair to say that "military welfare" as you put it is alive and kicking up there just as much as it is here.

[pseudobrit]

The American way of life as we envision it is unsustainable.

Reality and, ironically, globalism are the biggest threats to the American way of life.

[shikimo]

Reality and, ironically, globalism are the biggest threats to the American way of life.

Now THAT is a darn good point.

[Desertrat]

40-some million without health insurance does not mean 40-some million without access to health care. Federal law says emergency rooms must treat whomever walks in, rich or poor.

I really don't care whether the gazilloion illegal aliens have access to health insurance or health care. They can go home and do the best they can on somebody else's dime.

Those absolutely at risk, based on various studies by the usual suspects, seem to gneralize that some four million need and deserve medical help that is otherwise unavailable.

shikimo, back in 1949/1950 when I was in the Philippines, first learning a bit about the Far East, Chinese were referred to as "...the Jews of the Orient" for their business acumen. The PI, Indonesia, French Indo-China...The Chinese business interests varied from mom'n'pop on up to a virtual lock on major business and industry. And I for sure saw evidence of it in Hong Kong.

Most of those murdered by Mao during his rise to power and in the years immediately following were the business people and the educated people. That's millions of entrepreneurial types in his box score of horror.

As far as pre-WW II, somebody had to generate the wealth that was the source of the tax-take of the reigning dynasties. Rulers don't create wealth; they get it via some sort of theft.

Marxist rulers are good at getting rid of wealth, or at wiping out the means to create it. A good example, right now, is Chavez in Venezuela.

On "Globalism" What is it, other than the same-old same-old trade but with better communication and transportation? People around the world have been doing import/export since before Marco Polo...

'Rat

[mactastic]

40-some million without health insurance does not mean 40-some million without access to health care. Federal law says emergency rooms must treat whomever walks in, rich or poor.
Ah, but if those people had access to health care rather than crashing the gates of the ER for something that should have been treated long ago, we'd be getting a hell of a lot better bang for our health care dollar. Unless you're advocating changing that federal law...

[SMM]

You might do well to take notice that there is a lot more to Huntsville than just Redstone, contrary to what you seem to think. The Marshall Space Flight Center (NASA) and Cummings Research Park (4th largest research park in the world) come to mind.

A quick search of milltary bases by state shows that my state (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/statefacts/blal.htm) and your state (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/statefacts/blwa.htm) have just about equal numbers of military personnel, with your state having roughly twice as many installations. That's just the military side of things; it doesn't take into account companies like Boeing, who has a fairly close relationship with the Pentagon and the bulk of their operations in your state.

I guess it's fair to say that "military welfare" as you put it is alive and kicking up there just as much as it is here.

I do not like the MIC wherever it is located. For sake of clarification, very little of Boeing's military work is done in WA. However, they were busted a couple years back for illegally influencing the award of a large military contract. They are just as guilty of DOD scaming as anyone, except for the likes of Haliburton. Those chumps have raised the bar so high even the mafia is impressed.

We need to defend our country and that costs money. But, the irresponsible spending by federal agencies prevents us from accomplishing so many vital objectives. For someone to believe this has merit will invite a challenge from me.

[shu82]

I do not like the MIC wherever it is located. For sake of clarification, very little of Boeing's military work is done in WA. However, they were busted a couple years back for illegally influencing the award of a large military contract. They are just as guilty of DOD scaming as anyone, except for the likes of Haliburton. Those chumps have raised the bar so high even the mafia is impressed.

We need to defend our country and that costs money. But, the irresponsible spending by federal agencies prevents us from accomplishing so many vital objectives. For someone to believe this has merit will invite a challenge from me.

In that incident they "aquired" a lockheed bid and undercut it. That was the influence. It actually saved the Gov't money. Its pretty strict, one can't even buy a gov't employee a cup of coffee.

[Desertrat]

mac, a major problem with the law requiring the emergency room acceptance is that it's an unfunded mandate (seems so to me, anyhow). As usual, TANSTAAFL. If the feds backed up the good intentions with the needed money, it wouldn't be causing shutdowns of ERs.

'Rat

[MACDRIVE]

C H I N A

[solvs]

mac, a major problem with the law requiring the emergency room acceptance is that it's an unfunded mandate (seems so to me, anyhow). As usual, TANSTAAFL. If the feds backed up the good intentions with the needed money, it wouldn't be causing shutdowns of ERs.

Wouldn't that be socialized medicine?

[LethalWolfe]

Wouldn't that be socialized medicine?
Inefficient socialized medicine at that.


Lethal

[Much Ado]

It could be...
Greed
Lassiez-Faire taking control of everything (monopolies, power-corps)
Neo-conservatism and the 'rise' of the religious right
China

But to my mind it will be the same thing that caused the Cold War and countless other struggles throughout history:
People's inability and unwillingness to trust one another.

[solvs]

Inefficient socialized medicine at that.

Even better. Then when it fails, we can blame socialism. Everybody wins!

Uh, you know, except for all those dead poor people.

[Iscariot]

Even better. Then when it fails, we can blame socialism. Everybody wins!

Uh, you know, except for all those dead poor people.

Nope, they win too! We can use their corpses as filler in parking garage pillars for all the new condos we'll be able to build once we bulldoze their (now) unihabited slums! They'll forever be remembered for their contribution to high society.

[Roger1]

Military-industrial interests feathering their nests with public funds? Take a look at who imposed the zillion regulations and tests that every product that is sold to the government has to go through.


Some Damned liberal?


:p Sorry, just kidding. I really don't know who did.

As for the biggest threat to the American way of life, I think it is actually a series of smaller one lumped together.

The deficiet
Corrupt politicians
Jobs being sent overseas, etc.

[ghall]

The biggest threat to the American way of life is ourselves. We're too lazy to think for ourselves and act against what is wrong. There aren't enough people to get off their lazy asses and do something about it. Imagine if every person in America got up one day and protested the War in Iraq, we'd be in a very different place right now. But there are people who know it's wrong but won't do anything, and there are people who are brainless idiots who believe everything Fox News tells them.

[-::ubermann::-]

what is "american way of life"?
internet, some science and tech? consumerism? dont worry, their legacy is here to stay even if USA disappear
the bad things about american way of life like racism and christianity could disappear though, and that is good

[Blue Velvet]

Corpoate welfare is a phrase than merely points out the contradictions between the right's argument that industries should not be supported by the state, its desire for a free market and on the other hand, funnelling billions of tax-payers money into Halliburton, Boeing and the like. That also includes agricultural subsidies as well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_welfare

So when someone says that government should stay out of business, what they usually mean, is to stay out of certain kinds of business; the right's economic principles are revealed for what they are, namely complete rubbish.

[Mord]

I'd say the biggest threat to the american way of life is common sense, if not that then simply running out of resources.

[Roger1]

I'd say the biggest threat to the american way of life is common sense, if not that then simply running out of resources.


You mean lack of common sense, right?

[2jaded2care]

You mean lack of common sense, right?

Maybe, maybe not... we are talking about the American way of life, right?

I'd say the biggest threat is our demand for immediate gratification. We want the good things, right now, to hell with the costs. Charge it. Who, me sacrifice? I want dirt-cheap goods, surely the gov't is making sure they're safe. And the right to cheap gasoline is in the Constitution, isn't it? No? Maybe we should change that...

Let's reward politicians for the more pork $$$ they bring. The money has to go somewhere, right? Certainly we're not going to use it to make sure our interstate bridges don't fall, that would be silly. Better to have a museum to polka music (sic). Think of all the tourist dollars and development!

Personally, I largely blame the '60s and Madison Avenue.

[LethalWolfe]

Personally, I largely blame the '60s and Madison Avenue.
Reaping the seeds of the "me generation"?


Lethal

[-::ubermann::-]

what is "american way of life"?

[FrankBlack]

imac/cheese, are the middle class folks you know living within their financial means, or are they desperately in debt with crippling mortgages and credit card bills? Are they in a comfortable situation, or are they one paycheck away from living in a cardboard box? What I'm pointing out here, for those who may miss it, is that in order to maintain a decent living standard, people are working a lot more, and going into debt a lot more, just to be reasonably comfortable.

A Generation ago, a guy working as a machinist at a company such as Polaroid could afford a home in nice, quiet town such as Needham. Today, the average home price in Needham is $508,018, according to local real estate listings.

The question has been asked, "What is the American way of life?" there are probably as many answers to that, as there are members of this forum. So, here's my response.

My friend's father graduated from Natick (MA) high school in 1961. Not being college material, he enlists in the Navy for four years. He trains as a radio operator. He gets out of the Navy, and goes to work at the newly opened Sears store. This Sears store is different than the others. It's part of somethings called "The Natick Mall". He starts in receiving, and works his way into a sales position. He's good at it , and likes it. On his Sears paycheck, he is able to afford a decent house, and he sends his two sons to state colleges. He enjoys a comfortable life for a long time, and he is not in debt up to his eyeballs because of credit card bills. Then he enjoys a nice retirement.

Question: Is this a good example of the American way of life?

[2jaded2care]

Reaping the seeds of the "me generation"?


Lethal

Well, yeah, and its entitlement mentality which has become entrenched in Gens X, Y, etc. Maybe it's the easy credit that made it possible -- and aren't we dealing with the results of that now?

... You know that thing where you're all sitting around the table at the Chinese restaurant, and you take turns reading the fortunes, then add the phrase "in bed" to it? I'm at the point where whenever I hear an ad with the phrase "You owe it to yourself", I'm mentally adding the phrase "to put your money in our pockets". (Gotta admit though, whoever came up with "you owe it to yourself" was an Evil Genius.)

[mactastic]

mac, a major problem with the law requiring the emergency room acceptance is that it's an unfunded mandate (seems so to me, anyhow). As usual, TANSTAAFL. If the feds backed up the good intentions with the needed money, it wouldn't be causing shutdowns of ERs.

'Rat
So would you suggest abandoning the law or providing funding?

[Desertrat]

mac, a waffling answer: Philosophically, end the law. It's probably not constitutional; for sure it's ordering folks to do business that they wouldn't otherwise do. No different from saying that restaurants oughta give free food to poor folks.

So, a bit of waffle: Private hospitals, no. Publicly owned hospitals, yes, with funds from the feds.

More waffle: I don't object to requiring that folks get emergency treatment regardless of ability to pay, when talking about car-wreck-type injuries. Or, say, food poisoning when away from home. I dunno. Maybe strokes and heart attacks.

But not for sniffles or headaches or non-emergency problems. Cancer, e.g., isn't an emergency.

But I'm fatalistic about a lot of stuff. When I moved here in 1983, I was several miles from the nearest telephone and 85 miles from medical care. I live on the "wrong" side of a creek which at times can be impassable. I was asked one time what I'd do if the creek was too high to cross and I had a stroke or heart attack. Only one answer, "I'd die." I haven't moved...

'Rat

[Don't panic]

tasers.