Future of PDA Bleak?

[MacRumors]

MacCentral reports (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/08/18/pda/) on an IDC marketing research that states that Personal Digital Assistants (PDAs) may not be the growth area as once thought.

The research firm predicts "limited growth" over the next year, partly due to the emergance of convergence devices such as cell phones.

Apple's CEO, Steve Jobs, has had made similar comments (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/07/20020720142136.shtml) in the past when previously questioned about the possibility of Apple releasing another PDA.

[tizza]

I'd have to agree with this. I mainly just use my Palm for synching with my calendar and contacts, but if a mobile phone can have all this on it too - why bother with a clunky PDA??

[Billicus]

Steve Jobs knew it all along...:D Unfortunately, this means no iPad, but it doesn't rule out that ever suspicious trademark name, iPhone.

[Powerbook G5]

I agree, I can already sync calendar appointments, memos, do voice recording, have a phone book, play games, makes calls, text message, IM, email, etc with my cell phone, so it seems pointless for me to get a PDA.

[Ambrose Chapel]

i guess i'm glad i never got one then...

[mactastic]

I actually posted something just like this earlier today. The only thing I can really think of that I need a palm pilot for would be for typing for an extended period of time without power. For just about everything else, I could use a mobile phone and/or my laptop. I guess if you are using a desktop there might be some uses for a palm, but they are getting to be fewer as phones get more feature-rich.

[Marble]

Steve Jobs knew =D.

[granex]

For a while it looked like Palm was going to try to morph into a phone, with wireless communication. They were too slow, and now the phone companies have overtaken them because they do this essential function much better.

I've actually never looked into these phones (although I see people using them all the time now). Does Palm make money off of the use of the PamOS on these things? Do they all run PalmOS. Has WindowsCE made it onto phones? -- Sure I want to write a paper on the phone using WordCE :)

[Powerbook G5]

I'd rather not get the blue screen of death while I am in the middle of a phone call with my girlfriend, though...

[Vector]

I bought a palm vx and barely used it. It was only good for contacts and was a pain to write notes with. I have it in a box under my desk collecting dust because it is basically useless to me. I can see how some might need PDAs, but for most they are not worth it when a phone or another device already has the same features. I use my new iPod to keep my calender and contacts and my t616 to keep contacts and anything else i need. If i need to do anything more than to look at my schedule or find someone's number i have my laptop.

[vollspacken]

my dad has a compaq PDA that also works as a mobile phone - pretty big for a phone though but you got the best of both worlds in one device for the sacrifice of size...

and BTW, who needs a new PDA from Apple when you can get the best PDA there is:
a Newton 2100

vSpacken

[fred]

Don't believe for one second that PDAs will die....look at the new Nitrus MP3 player just introduced by Rio with its 1.5 gig tiny hard drive. These things are slated to find their way into PDAs real soon ...what will that do to iPod sales ?

Every major computer manufacturer has a PDA...everyone except Apple that is. Let's face it folks Apple doesn't have the resources to be a major player in the hardware market à la Sony or Dell...

The iPod is great but Apple is too cautious for its own good.....they should have integrated PDA functionality, video functionality, FM tuner and FM broadcaster. Heck Sony have introduced so many PDAs with tons of features it makes your head spin.

[mistersquid]

PDAs were must-have gadgets when everyone imagined they had to be connected to their data 24/7, but after the dot-com bust, it became apparent to everybody that having unlinked information was pretty useless. While wireless connections hold promise, they won't really be useful until PDAs can provide information relevant to their locations. For example, imagine turning on your PDA in a new city and being able to locate the nearest vegan restaurant, or whatever might be your particular need. This old idea just hasn't taken off yet.

Even if it did, those who have posted above that cell phones have usurped PDAs by incorporating the latter's functionality have it exactly right. One day, cell phones may be able to tell us where the nearest shoe store is.

PDAs have always seemed to me a good way to guarantee that you had to carry around this inconveniently-shaped and -sized object in the event of an emergency. Even during the dot-com boom, when people showed me their nifty PDAs I'd nod and smile all the while thinking how absolutely useless and cumbersome such a gadget would be.

[barhoptheworld]

A few years ago I bought a cassiopeia pocket pc and I have to admit (reluctantly) that the pocket pc OS was leaps and bounds over any palm os. There was still plenty of room for improvement but it was much better than any other option. The need for PDAs is dieing fast as phones catch up. If someone could combine the ergonomics of a phone, the input area of a quality PDA, and ease of use of lets say... OS X, it would be an ustopable product. Add in scalability (a la pro vs. consumer model) and it would take the tech world by storm (ipod style).

[MoparShaha]

Originally posted by mistersquid
Even if it did, those who have posted above that cell phones have usurped PDAs by incorporating the latter's functionality have it exactly right. One day, cell phones may be able to tell us where the nearest shoe store is. In Japan they already have phones that do this. We're way behind here in the US.

[mymemory]

If I get a PDA if for Phone numbers and a Calculator but my cellphone do that already, so, there is not need for a PDA then.

[justytylor]

Originally posted by mistersquid
Even if it did, those who have posted above that cell phones have usurped PDAs by incorporating the latter's functionality have it exactly right. One day, cell phones may be able to tell us where the nearest shoe store is.

Anybody here ever read William Gibson's Idoru? You, my friend, just described a Sandbenders...

[Wes]

Originally posted by fred

The iPod is great but Apple is too cautious for its own good.....they should have integrated PDA functionality, video functionality, FM tuner and FM broadcaster. Heck Sony have introduced so many PDAs with tons of features it makes your head spin.

Would you like to carry the battery to power the thing for 10 hours on a classy apple hydraulic shoulder mount, or just to have it roll around on wheels behind you?

[SiliconAddict]

Bull....

I do as much with my Pocket PC as I do with my laptop. I was in BWI about a month ago and it was about 10 minutes until my flight was boarding. Instead of pulling out the laptop and powering it up I snagged my Jornada popped in my wifi card, detected the network and away I went. (Took all of like 15 seconds to get on the network.) I accessed my home server from BWI and downloaded a few MP3's that I wanted while on the flight. While on said flight I read a novel that I had downloaded via the browser while waiting for my flight from Mpls international.

If sales of PDA's are falling its because there are no longer any must have features on them anymore. PDA's fall into 2 categories. The basic devices like your Palm III's and IV's of the world and your highly functional iPaq's and Clie's of the world.
Everyone who has a Palm III and IV have it for one reason. As an organizer. For the basics. These people don't need the bells and whistles and are content to stay on 3+ year old tech.

The power users of the world always crave more. And like it or not there IS a market for these people and there is plenty of room to grow. I've convinced more people then I can count to purchase a iPaq 1910 and now the 1940 series because these are excellent devices that allow you some of the basic functionality of a desktop\laptop in your pocket.

Then there is the smart phone. I've discussed this topic over and over again with people that believe that smart phones are where its at. It isn't. Smart phones are nice but too limiting on data input and in the functionality category. What you are going to eventually see is smaller versions of this:

http://www.infosync.no/news/2003/03/18/gfx/ti_wanda_01.jpg

This is a reference design by TI. There is no frame of ref for the size of the device but rest assured its small and light. I firmly believe cell phones are going to be integrated into PDA's rather then PDA's into cell phones. People like working with there data on the go. A cell phone shape and design isn’t conducive to data manipulation\input.

[bikertwin]

Until the third generation just got slimmed, the iPods were considerably clunkier than any PDA. Sony Clies were to iPods & WindowsCE devices what Titanium PowerBooks were to Windows laptops: While large in width or height, they were much thinner which makes for much easier carrying and storing in nooks.

A Sony Clie is iLife+iApps+AppleWorks, miniaturized: I can organize photos and play slideshows (iPhoto), listen to MP3s (iTunes), edit Word and Excel documents (AppleWorks), view and edit appointments (iCal) & contacts (AddressBook), etc.

Now, before anyone states the obvious: no, you're not going to run a business using Excel spreadsheets on your Clie, nor are you going to write the next great novel or have room to store 30GB of songs.

However, as an in-between supplement to a Mac, they're really great things to have around. Plus they sync up great with iSync, and integrate with iPhoto and iTunes with the Missing Sync.

The problem with phones is that the screen is just too small. Maybe a folding or virtual screen would help phones.

No, PDAs aren't for everyone, but then Macs aren't either. ;)

<edit>
Looks like SiliconAddict and I were thinking the same thing at the same time.
</edit>

[fred]

It all comes down to this: Apple is no Sony....

Just because the Newton failed (actually it didn't but that's a whole other story) Apple abandons a category it practically invented. Heck Sony's first PDA model was a dog....yet Sony persevered....

[Timothy]

These stories always crack me up. The PDA will NEVER go away. NEVER.

The majority of the current-batch PDAs are toys, and yes, as such, are not worth much.

Most people who owned and used Newtons during their time have a much different perspective on the PDA concept. My Newton/Ricochet modem combination was light-years ahead, technologically, compared to what is offered me now in the PDA market, and that was 5 years ago. It was a useful tool that I miss dearly.

If Steve Jobs has no vision of the PDA in the future, it is not prophetic, but rather, simply, a lack, of vision. Hey...he's great on many things, but just dead-wrong on this one, despite what the market is doing.

I'm still waiting for a genius with vision to break the PDA market wide open. It will happen.

Dead? Hardly. Just waiting.

[NavyIntel007]

The problem with US smartphones is that they are dated technology compared to what's available to the rest of the world. I have the Tungsten C because I wanted a powerful organiser that I could view my pictures off of my SD card from my camera. I needed a place to keep my schedule and write and keep notes and sync it with my mac. I also wanted something that wasn't rediculously behind the times. I'm on Sprint POS. There are four phones that will sync with a mac on sprint. Two brick-style samsungs, a flip samsung and the treo. All rebranding old technology. The flip phone looks unweildy and the other three have no SD slot. The smartphones availible now are too big. That's why i have a Tungsten C.

Possibly, my next, next cell phone will be a smart phone... but not yet.

[rlreif]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Bull....

I do as much with my Pocket PC as I do with my laptop. I was in BWI about a month ago and it was about 10 minutes until my flight was boarding. Instead of pulling out the laptop and powering it up I snagged my Jornada popped in my wifi card, detected the network and away I went. (Took all of like 15 seconds to get on the network.) I accessed my home server from BWI and downloaded a few MP3's that I wanted while on the flight. While on said flight I read a novel that I had downloaded via the browser while waiting for my flight from Mpls international.

If sales of PDA's are falling its because there are no longer any must have features on them anymore. PDA's fall into 2 categories. The basic devices like your Palm III's and IV's of the world and your highly functional iPaq's and Clie's of the world.
Everyone who has a Palm III and IV have it for one reason. As an organizer. For the basics. These people don't need the bells and whistles and are content to stay on 3+ year old tech.

The power users of the world always crave more. And like it or not there IS a market for these people and there is plenty of room to grow. I've convinced more people then I can count to purchase a iPaq 1910 and now the 1940 series because these are excellent devices that allow you some of the basic functionality of a desktop\laptop in your pocket.

Then there is the smart phone. I've discussed this topic over and over again with people that believe that smart phones are where its at. It isn't. Smart phones are nice but too limiting on data input and in the functionality category. What you are going to eventually see is smaller versions of this:

http://www.infosync.no/news/2003/03/18/gfx/ti_wanda_01.jpg

This is a reference design by TI. There is no frame of ref for the size of the device but rest assured its small and light. I firmly believe cell phones are going to be integrated into PDA's rather then PDA's into cell phones. People like working with there data on the go. A cell phone shape and design isn’t conducive to data manipulation\input.

can an ipaq sync with OSX??

[fred]

It all comes down to this: Apple is no Sony....

Just because the Newton failed (actually it didn't but that's a whole other story) Apple abandons a category it practically invented. Heck Sony's first PDA model was a dog....yet Sony persevered....

[mian]

The ipaq can sync.

http://www.markspace.com/pocketpc.html

[rjwill246]

They have a use-- and that cannot be denied but they are not elegant. Too much duplication of energy if you have a computer too- despite Bluetooth/USB or F/W connects.
It is still the PHONE that is the most useful non-computer device we have, so if PDAs can carry voice, potentially for NO fee, can sync to the computer for data storage with no hassles and can be used all over the world without local phone company regs getting in the way-- then, you will have a device that is worthy of consideration. But as I have looked at each wonderful PDA that has come out, it always seems to me to be the Model T--- against the Testarossa- not in the same ballpark, let alone league. Clearly there is a place for a miniMac with VoI but it hasn't happened yet. Apple could do it, though... right?

[BrandonRP0123]

Think about the iPod and how it evolved into being able to store things such as contacts. Then think about what Apple might do for a `PDA', if any.

[fred]

Think about it this way...when PDAs acquire hard drives such as are found in the iPod will Apple have any choice ? Classic case of Apple losing a market through inertia because believe me folks all PDAs will soon have hard drives...in this case Apple will lose the iPod market because you'll be able to play MP3s on these babies to your heart's delight

[Stella]

The death of the PDA is nothing new. this has been predicted by the Symbian Consortium.

The Smartphone will take over.

They had the foresight to forget about the PDA and build the Symbian OS (which is INCREDIBLY stable and low powered requirements but yet very powerful) that will work in SmartPhones - ie, cell phones that has the capabilities of the PDA built in. Forget Palm and Stinker - these have been hacked up run on Smartphones. Symbian was built specifically for SmartPhones and it really does show.

Think about it - why carry a PDA and phone, two devices. You can buy one device and have the benefits of both - at a lower cost. Look at the Nokia phones, they are very small and powerful. Also look at the Symbian P800 - touch screen Smartphone, abeit, a little larger - but the P810 will be smaller. The handwriting recongition is far, far better than Palm or Pocket PC.

The Symbian based smartphones are going to take over - they have the largest cell phone manufacturers backing it - Nokia, Siemens, Motorolla, Sony Ercisson to name a few. There are more Symbian based smartphones than any other...

A lot of people in north America I have found do not understand or know what a Smartphone is. They are just as powerful as the classic PDA.

Smartphones will kill PDAs.

[fred]

Symbian , Shmymbian....

Gimme a good Bluetooth phone phone (Nokia 6310i or Sony Ericsson T68i) and a Bluetooth enabled PDA (Tungsten T2 or Sony TG 50) and I'm in heaven. Why ? Because I can carry a small, lightweight phone and not a brick like the SE P800....and when I need net access I pull out the PDA and dial in....no expensive data plan needed

[Stella]

All Symbian based phones are Bluetooth!!

Originally posted by fred
Symbian , Shmymbian....

Gimme a good Bluetooth phone phone (Nokia 6310i or Sony Ericsson T68i) and a Bluetooth enabled PDA (Tungsten T2 or Sony TG 50) and I'm in heaven. Why ? Because I can carry a small, lightweight phone and not a brick like the SE P800....and when I need net access I pull out the PDA and dial in....no expensive data plan needed

[adrobinson]

Have you seen the specs for the new Treo 600 from Handspring - seems like a nice convergence device. Smaller than standard PDA but still a workable touchscreen. The OS is Palm 5.2 (I think) with a faster processor and SD/IO card slot for expansion. I believe Sprint, AT&T Wireless and T-Mobile will be carrying it when it arrives this Fall.

[Samir 3.0]

In Japan they already have phones that do this. We're way behind here in the US.

Also in italy...

http://www.tre.it/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FixedSiteH3G%2FExplore%2FMarketing%2FWhere&cid=0&selectedTabIndex=4

But i don't know if it works because i don't have this provider...

[fred]

Originally posted by Stella
All Symbian based phones are Bluetooth!!


My point being is that I don't give a hoot what OS the phone is running I prefer doing the net browsing on a larger PDA screen...with the flexibility of not being beholden to the phone companies for data plans

[Roller]

Originally posted by Stella
Smartphones will kill PDAs.

It's not a matter of one "killing" the other...traditional PDAs and cell phones are simply converging into one device that'll combine both functions in one package: an OS that lets me carry around and work on any subset of my data, a large, bright display (OLED perhaps), several input methods (keyboard, handwriting, voice) and voice/data connectivity. I think that we're still at least a couple of years away, though.

[topicolo]

Why would devices which can play Divx movies, emulate gameboy advance games/snes/nes/genesis, read ebooks, browse the internet wirelessly die as a marketable category? If PDAs aren't enough for entertainment and organization, I don't know what is.

[fred]

Originally posted by Roller
It's not a matter of one "killing" the other...traditional PDAs and cell phones are simply converging into one device that'll combine both functions in one package: an OS that lets me carry around and work on any subset of my data, a large, bright display (OLED perhaps), several input methods (keyboard, handwriting, voice) and voice/data connectivity. I think that we're still at least a couple of years away, though.


I disagree....convergence is another overhyped concept. Look at all the phone/pda devices on the market today. They are either phone centric or pda centric. The Handspring Treo 270/300 was PDA centric with a phone same for new color Blackberry whereas the new Treo 600 is phone centric with a PDA. I very much doubt it someone will find the magic bullet to make the perfect phone/pda hybrid, That's why I'll be sticking with 2 devices for the foreseeable future.

[adrobinson]

It all boils down to personal preference. Some want the expanded functionality of a PDA device which offers phone functionality. I have Nokia and I have been generally happy with it. But I also carry around a Palm or PPC depending on what mood I am in. Some of the new smartphone designs and this new Treo 600 may convince me to keep just one device. I for one will stay in a holding pattern until something strikes my fancy.

[fred]

Originally posted by adrobinson
It all boils down to personal preference. Some want the expanded functionality of a PDA device which offers phone functionality. I have Nokia and I have been generally happy with it. But I also carry around a Palm or PPC depending on what mood I am in. Some of the new smartphone designs and this new Treo 600 may convince me to keep just one device. I for one will stay in a holding pattern until something strikes my fancy.

Treo 600 is a good stab at it...but not quite

Screen is pathetic at 160 x 160
no Bluetooth
no WiFi
no screen cover
battery can't be changed (major faux pas...hello iPod :) )

[mim]

Originally posted by rjwill246
They have a use-- and that cannot be denied but they are not elegant. Too much duplication of energy if you have a computer too- despite Bluetooth/USB or F/W connects.
It is still the PHONE that is the most useful non-computer device we have, so if PDAs can carry voice, potentially for NO fee, can sync to the computer for data storage with no hassles and can be used all over the world without local phone company regs getting in the way-- then, you will have a device that is worthy of consideration. But as I have looked at each wonderful PDA that has come out, it always seems to me to be the Model T--- against the Testarossa- not in the same ballpark, let alone league. Clearly there is a place for a miniMac with VoI but it hasn't happened yet. Apple could do it, though... right?

Yeh, I think this is it. The only problem being that Steve has said they don't have much to offer the phone market so they won't go there - I hope he meant "currently" and not "in the future".

CF harddrives have already reached 4gig. It's not going to be long before someone sticks one in a phone and starts adding a "music" menu under the "contacts" entry (you could probably even eventually browse your home network iTunes db..how 'bout that?). If Apple doesn't develop VoIP, and push their handwriting recognition, networking, and other assets to atleast a partner phone company they'll get swept away by the tide (yet again...).

The iPod is a prime contender for getting whipped by a phone with a load of memory. More HD capacity in the 'pod isn't going to cut it much longer, as nobody will be able to afford to buy enough music to fill the things.

Some of these 3G phones are advancing so quickly that it's plain scary - especially seeing as their uptake is so slow.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by rlreif
can an ipaq sync with OSX??

Short answer no with a but.... :)

MS doesn't make a version of ActiveStink for OSX and trust me this is, as martha says, a good thing TM Activesync is the worst pile of crap ever to escape the anus of Microsoft. Its been on version 3 for 3.5 freaking years and we are still only on version 3.7 and it ain't any better then version 3, 2, or even 1. The software is bloated, no surprise there, and sometimes requires a soft reset of the device to sync. This is one of those instances where I thank god MS didn’t bother to contaminate the Mac with this crap. Instead some innovative clever Macite created a conduit to iSync.
The only problem with The Missing Sync for PPC (http://www.markspace.com/pocketpc.html) is that it doesn't allow you to install programs which brings the PPC down to a glorified contact\calendar\schedule manager. $300+ is a whole heck of a lot to pay for that. There is a another option Pocket MAC (http://www.pocketmac.net/) This software has the ability to uncompress the cab files, files the most progs on the PPC are stored in prior to install, and install it to the PPC. However from what I’ve read not only is the software WAY overpriced, IMHO, at $70 but it also sucks at least ver 2 did. Ver 3 is on it way so who knows.

That wasn’t a short answer was it. :p

[edit: Looks like i was wrong with the missing sync and installing apps.]

[Steven1621]

neither palm nor microsoft have gotten the pda thing completely right. now is the time for apple to step in and make the device live up to its potential

[mim]

Originally posted by fred
I disagree....convergence is another overhyped concept. Look at all the phone/pda devices on the market today. They are either phone centric or pda centric. The Handspring Treo 270/300 was PDA centric with a phone same for new color Blackberry whereas the new Treo 600 is phone centric with a PDA. I very much doubt it someone will find the magic bullet to make the perfect phone/pda hybrid, That's why I'll be sticking with 2 devices for the foreseeable future.

I think is more a case of each manufacturer promoting thier "world view" with respect to portable devices.

You're right - convergence is often overhyped (stills camera/phone....yessss), but it's quite logical to combine a way of storing information about your aquaintences with the ability to communicate with them. Kind of like the old filofax which everyone used not that long ago - adress book/note jotter/sketchbook/middle of the night idea pad/diary. All in one place, all related to each other, all easily sorted (unless you're me).

That's quite a complex set of tasks that used to be facilitated by some A5 sized ring-bound paper, with a leather case that had a few pockets. If anyone can sort out a proper digital version, it's Apple. They have the technology, the design, the interfaces.....I'm still baffled why they don't just do it. (Newton flashbacks I guess).

[mstecker]

Originally posted by mistersquid
For example, imagine turning on your PDA in a new city and being able to locate the nearest vegan restaurant, or whatever might be your particular need.

It's already done.

http://www.vindigo.com

Works on PDAs (palm, PPC) and a variety of cellphones, and does just what you describe.

[mvc]

Originally posted by adrobinson
It all boils down to personal preference. Some want the expanded functionality of a PDA device which offers phone functionality. I have Nokia and I have been generally happy with it. But I also carry around a Palm or PPC depending on what mood I am in. Some of the new smartphone designs and this new Treo 600 may convince me to keep just one device. I for one will stay in a holding pattern until something strikes my fancy.

Actually, all these luggable devices - mp3 players, digital cameras (still & video) cellphones, pdas will converge, and the result won't look like any of them, but will probably be about the size of a pen, with say a flexible 5 x 7 inch roll-out screen at 1024 x 728px and either comprehensive voice recognition or a projected holographic keyboard/trackpad (plus maybe a stylus if really still needed).

And it will be three times faster than a g5 with 100gb of storage, probably similar to flash memory.

All of these technologies are in development right now. The problem is simply one of maturity. Just wait till 2013 and you'll see what I mean.

If its digital, it WILL converge eventually, at least in the portable arena, because you won't tolerate arbitrary distinctions between data, and you won't want to carry more than one device if it CAN do everything well.

Now in the home, quite the opposite effect will happen, because you don't want to carry ANYTHING, you will want your data to follow you around on its own, so low cost hi speed ubiquitous "devices" will proliferate and interconnect wirelessly to bring you whatever you want wherever you want. And those devices wil probably look like a wall, or a coffee table.

[xtekdiver]

Originally posted by rlreif
can an ipaq sync with OSX??

Yes. I am using an iPAQ 2215 and I can sync it with iCal. There are two OS X apps that can do this for you.
1. Missing Sync www.markspace.com
2. PocketMac www.pocketmac.net

Very nifty programs. As much as it pains me, Pocket PC is a superior PDA. However, I think a PDA, with a screen like my iPAQ, running a small version of OS X would absolutly awsome! Imagine tapping an app with your stylus and seeing the genie effect as it opens. That would be too cool.

The question I have is whether I can use my PDA via bluetooth and connect to the internet with my new Powerbook (whenever they come out)? I am using a Sprint CF2031 flash card to connect to the internet anywhere. Very cool device, but they don't have OS X drivers.:( But if phones can be used via bluetooth why not PDAs? Any suggestions?

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by mvc
Actually, all these luggable devices - mp3 players, digital cameras (still & video) cellphones, pdas will converge, and the result won't look like any of them, but will probably be about the size of a pen, with say a flexible 5 x 7 inch roll-out screen at 1024 x 728px and either comprehensive voice recognition or a projected holographic keyboard/trackpad (plus maybe a stylus if really still needed).


You mean this:

Earth: Final Conflict was the bomb.
www.mpica.org/LCA5/efc03.jpg]Global (http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:gc0Tw-HEn68C:[url)
www.mpica.org/LCA5/efc02.jpg]Global II (http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:DA4mkdG3khYC:[url)

[edit:
BAH! ::Discussed:: Google sucks
anyways what you are describing is the global from earth final conflict. The coolest device to hit scifi since the communicator]

[Sol]

Considering that the latest mobile phones have most of the functionality of the average colour-screen PDA I am not surprised to read that their future is bleak. Having said that, I will continue to be one of the minority who does not use mobile phones as I find them completely unecessary. For me a PDA will continue to be the easiest way to cary my whole address book and take notes on the road. As for all the new PDA features like music/movie playback, digital photography, wireless networking, etc, I see them as extras that I neither need nor want to pay for.

[hose this!]

CF harddrives have already reached 4gig. It's not going to be long before someone sticks one in a phone and starts adding a "music" menu under the "contacts" entry (you could probably even eventually browse your home network iTunes db..how 'bout that?). If Apple doesn't develop VoIP, and push their handwriting recognition, networking, and other assets to atleast a partner phone company they'll get swept away by the tide (yet again...).

The iPod is a prime contender for getting whipped by a phone with a load of memory. More HD capacity in the 'pod isn't going to cut it much longer, as nobody will be able to afford to buy enough music to fill the things.

Some of these 3G phones are advancing so quickly that it's plain scary - especially seeing as their uptake is so slow.

Good point. Millions of people will continue to use PDA regardless of whether analysts see it as a growth market or not. Why? Because a lot of people find them very very useful. Another fundamental force to consider is that storage memory will continue to get smaller and cheaper. When 30gb PDAs or phones capable of mp3 playback hit the street, you think anyone's going to dish $500 for an ipod?

The ipod's been a success because Apple got the size, capacity, and interface right before anyone else. Don't think this is going to last forever.

If Apple are truly cunning and not up their own arses too much, they are viewing the iPod as a stepping stone - an intermediate if you will - towards building their expertise in launching a truly amazing portable multifunction device.

[Snowy_River]

Maybe I'm in a minority, but I just don't see that these two markets are quite capable of converging. The PDA's real strength is in the form of something like a Newton, a miniature note pad that has a decent screen size and can handle some of the basic functions of a computer.

Phones are great, but either they can't have the screen size, or they're too big to be comfortable to use as a phone. I've looked at some of the 'smart-phones' that are out there, and my reaction has been that these are not things that I want to use as a PDA. I've also seen some PDAs that have phone capabilities, and my reaction has been that I would find them uncomfortably large to act as a phone.

Now, my idea of the ultimate evolution of this would be to have a phone that was little more than an ear-piece. You could choose to wear it or keep it in your pocket. In addition, have a PDA that can communicate (wifi? bluetooth? something else?) with the 'phone' to share contact information, etc. Perhaps they would be, essentially, one device, but in two pieces.

I just can't see the successful integration of all of the functionality of a PDA while still maintainig the comfort of a phone all in one unit...

[JFreak]

Originally posted by capitalhood
THE BRITISH ARE COMING, THE BRITISH ARE COMING!

actually, i have been paying quite close attention and have to disagree. during 2001-2002 i was deep into symbian development in the heart of nokia r&d at tampere, finland, and have met a lot of symbian people as i was a build manager in three projects (one was the 9210 communicator, one the 3650 toy phone, and last one not yet released model which i cannot talk about). the british are definetely not coming very fast, because there are just not enough competent (i mean guru-level) workforce to push the development any faster. they have hands full (almost tied) with their current problems and they have to choose whether they develop more problems or fix known ones. i just hope they won't make themselves the next micro****, because nokia phones are so great and depend on symbian os at this time.

well, i guess i have to back off a little - they ARE coming, just not that fast they have let you think. i'd be happier if they had the courage to slow down a little and fix bugs first. and there are plenty.

[tex210]

Snowy, I agree with the bluetooth earpiece/pda combo. Why would you want to get even smaller displays? With web access, you need to see those pictures, and watch those movies. Especially trailers while you stand in line for tickets! When you want to dial someone, you leave your device in your pocket/holster/(forearm holster?) and speak the name of who you are calling. The earpiece needs to sustain itself when hooked onto the pda somehow...
five years later, I'd better be able to edit photos and movies on that thing!

[mvc]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
…what you are describing is the global from earth final conflict. The coolest device to hit scifi since the communicator]

Yeah, a lot like that device, a roll out screen of pda type size, inbuilt video camera/sound player, using voice activation or projected holographic keyboard/haptics sensors to get your input. A general small communications/information device.

I don't see earpieces/eyeglasses catching on in a hurry, they are doable now badly, but the whole problem is that you cannot hide them, it is geek ware, you end up looking like you have been assimilated or are working for the CIA.

[LinuxGigolo]

Originally posted by fred
Every major computer manufacturer has a PDA...everyone except Apple that is. Let's face it folks Apple doesn't have the resources to be a major player in the hardware market à la Sony or Dell...


Gateway doesn't. And Gateway's the company that's rebranding itself as a consumer electronics company instead of merely a PC company.

[SubGothius]

Props to Snowy_River and mvc -- IMHO you're thinking along the right lines, here.

The problem with converging phones, PDAs and mp3/media players is the crucial issue of form factor; what's optimal for one use is awkward for the other(s). Phones need to be light and slim, yet PDAs and media players (esp. expanding from audio to full A/V) demand a nice, wide screen, and desirable mini-HDs also tend to limit width reduction potential. Possibly until we can get a roll-up or holographic-projection screen in a collapsible housing (a la E:FC's "Global" units as pictured by mvc above), I have an idea, one which may work out even more conveniently than that -- something like Newton-iPod hybrid, but with the innovation of an audio-transceiver "smart stylus".

The device's main unit would continue much along PDA/iPod lines as a thin "slab" you can carry on a belt or lanyard, or in a pocket or purse, fully-fronted by a touch-sensitive, good-rez color screen, containing a built-in mini-HD and running a light, quick OS consolidating PDA, phone and media functions. Think of a slightly wider iPod, maybe taller -- say, 16:9 aspect ratio -- faced with a touch-sensitive screen extending to the very edges (iPod controls are already nearly virtual in the latest rev, so these simply could be displayed on one mode of the full-face screen, rather than taking up extra face-space beyond the screen). Bonus points for working a decent camera into it (mebbe pops outta the side, to conserve face dimensions).

Now, this form factor is great for PDA-media use, but awfully unweildy for a phone; here's where the auxiliary unit comes in -- the audio transceiver "smart stylus". The stylus would be a bit beefier than most current PDAs' styli (more like the Newton's telescoping pen-stylus instead), and would double as a phone "headset". Leave the main unit wherever you keep it, and keep the stylus either holstered in the main unit or clipped into any more-convenient pocket. When you want to use the phone, just pull out the stylus, click an integrated button or telescope it to full length (Newton-esque again), and hold it up to your head to chat -- the mic's in one end, the speaker in the other (adapting the iPod's earbud technology), and Bluetooth links it to the main unit. The actual stylus tip could be made to slide out of the larger pen-transceiver (think of a slim, short Palm-style stylus slipped into a fatter, longer -- say, Sharpie-sized -- transceiver pen), so you could use the stylus on the screen and still talk, simultaneously. Bonus points for working an actual ink-pen tip into the design as well (like those Cross 3-way pen-pencil-stylus combos).

Well, whadaya think?

[groovebuster]

Originally posted by Samir 3.0
In Japan they already have phones that do this. We're way behind here in the US.

Also in italy...

http://www.tre.it/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FixedSiteH3G%2FExplore%2FMarketing%2FWhere&cid=0&selectedTabIndex=4

But i don't know if it works because i don't have this provider...

In Germany we have that too...

groovebuster

[nospleen]

Originally posted by LinuxGigolo
Gateway doesn't. And Gateway's the company that's rebranding itself as a consumer electronics company instead of merely a PC company.

http://brighthand.com/article/Gateway_Pocket_PC_Delayed

They were making one, but it has been delayed....

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by nospleen
http://brighthand.com/article/Gateway_Pocket_PC_Delayed

They were making one, but it has been delayed....

Delayed. Then delayed indefinetly. Vaporware anyone?


Lethal

[logica4d]

OK I might agree about the PDA thing but as it has been stated Pocket PCs may surpass the PDA. Why carry a PDA when some cell phones do the same thing. :)

But what is Apple bringing to the table if anything. Maybe something entirely different. If we look a t several facts you may see a vague picture of what the future holds. Currently there are rumblings of a mysterious 4th product being released this week.

1. Apple has a plastic enclosure in production that consists of a 5x7 LCD and a rear slot the size of an iPod.

2. Do you really think all of that hard drive space on the iPod is really for you to carry around your entire music collection?
Somebody is thinking long term.

3. Panther utilizes new movie compression technology called Pixelet which reduces files sizes considerably.

4. What in the word is Inkwell for? I mean I use it with my Wacom tablet to play but besides that...?

5. Bluetooth, Airport, Rendevouz. iChat/AV???

6. So if I could have a device that allowed me to collaborate on a design project or surf the web from my couch or control my devices, or watch a movie thats loaded on my iPod or show a client a presentation or see my Keynote presentation as I presented it or . . .

7. Sell it separately with limited memory and then allow the iPod to be locked into the rear enclosure for added storage space. Now I can sell more iPods and sell this to existing iPod owners.

Just an analysis of all the current pieces of info floating around in cyberspace. But what do I know? ;)

[instantypo]

I was thinking that it must be quite feasable to add cell phone capacities to the iPod. It already carries all our phone numbers. It would only need a basic cell phone module and a tiny microphone in the headset remote. Since owning an iPod I hate carrying my cell phone around. I only want to carry one item at a time.

I definitely don't want number keys to appear on the iPod, no!! But I would like to be able to reach all the numbers I entered through AddresBook.app. I don't necessarily want to receive calls with the iPod, it would disturb while listening to my music ;) as long as I can make calls. Does anyone else see the genius in this idea ?:p Can it be done ?

[NavyIntel007]

Cell phone manufacturers have no idea what people want. All the colors and cameras on phones are just stupid. It's kiddy stuff. They are marketing to the 12 year olds whose parents will be buying them a cell phone in a few years. Another example of this... flip phones. I have one but I hate it, it's a pain. I want a brick however, oh, Sprint doesn't sell a brick anymore.

Another reason why people will not buy a smartphone is the cell phone plans. If I buy a Treo from Sprint, move to Virgina and decide I want to be At&T now, guess what, I have a useless Treo. The $300 or so I paid for it I have to pay it again for a new one. That is why I won't buy a smartphone, because I don't want to be tied down to my phone service.

Also, they want to say the PDA is dead... but what about the desktop computer? Sales are falling in that arena. Those sales are being taken by laptops. Well... laptops are still big clunky things (in comparison to PDAs) and if the PDA gets to the point where it surpasses the laptop in useability, laptop sales will also fall but I believe desktop sales will go up. PDAs already surpass the useablilty of laptops when it comes to battery life. Right now they need more memory and voice recognition so that instead of typing a report, you can speak it to the device and then go back and make corrections.

Phones need to go in the direction of an earpiece and a bluetooth connection to a PDA or laptop.

Symbian? There is ONE device in the US that uses that. If Symbian had agressively played the US market for PDAs about 5 years ago maybe it would be a much more viable smartphone OS.

[edStar]

I don't think the PDA is dead. Its quite a big claim to be making, and i think there are other correlating factors that are being ignored.

I'd like to see the Newton revived, I've read about the amazing things it was capable. Truly a gadget ahead of its time....

[wPod]

Look into my crystal ball. . .
I see the future of the PDA, but the plain PDA does not exsist. The future holds a palm computer that combines my current Palm III, iPod, cell phone, and the power of a laptop. All of this the size of the 3G iPods (but a larger input/viewing color screen). I then drop my superPod into the dock by my 42" plasma TV and can watch all the movies i have stored. drop my superPod into the dock by my apple cinema display and use it like a desktop computer. drop my superPod into the dock and work and can access the network and all my job related documents. or simply take my superPod wherever i want and have wireless access to all of the above. (oh yeah and i could make calls on the cell phone) i gadget that does EVERYTHING. i would pay top dollar for a G5 superPod, how about you???

[CmdrLaForge]

Hi guys,

I am looking for a cell phone that can sync my calendar with both Mac and Apple.

First I tought I need to buy a PDA, but I just want to be reminded about my next meetings and so on.

Do you think a Sony T610 or T800 would fit for that purpose. T610 would be better because its much cheaper.

Thanks for your replys
CmdrLaForge

[CmdrLaForge]

Originally posted by LinuxGigolo
Gateway doesn't. And Gateway's the company that's rebranding itself as a consumer electronics company instead of merely a PC company.

Apple could - if they really want to - sell a PDA under there brand that was developed and manufactured by another company like Palm or someone else.

It seems more like that they don't want at the moment. Maybe they have something in the pipeline that is just ahead of time. Wouldn't that be Apple like ?

[CmdrLaForge]

Originally posted by groovebuster
In Germany we have that too...

groovebuster

Which product ?

[rueyeet]

Originally posted by SubGothius
The stylus would be a bit beefier than most current PDAs' styli (more like the Newton's telescoping pen-stylus instead), and would double as a phone "headset". Leave the main unit wherever you keep it, and keep the stylus either holstered in the main unit or clipped into any more-convenient pocket. When you want to use the phone, just pull out the stylus, click an integrated button or telescope it to full length (Newton-esque again), and hold it up to your head to chat -- the mic's in one end, the speaker in the other (adapting the iPod's earbud technology), and Bluetooth links it to the main unit. The actual stylus tip could be made to slide out of the larger pen-transceiver (think of a slim, short Palm-style stylus slipped into a fatter, longer -- say, Sharpie-sized -- transceiver pen), so you could use the stylus on the screen and still talk, simultaneously. Bonus points for working an actual ink-pen tip into the design as well (like those Cross 3-way pen-pencil-stylus combos).

Well, whadaya think?

I think you've never read the forum thread arguments about styli preferences at a PDA-centric site, or lost your PDA stylus. :)

Seriously: people's preferences as to size, length, and weight of their chosen styli can approach the levels of a Mac vs. Win argument. Also, styli are typically very easy to lose, which would really suck if half the functionality of your device is in the styli.

General thoughts on this thread:

iPods won't take over from PDAs until you can ENTER data, not just look at it. For now, the iPod does not merit serious consideration as a PDA contender.

I think that the people who say the PDA is dead are exaggerating, yes--there will always be a market for that particular combination of needs--but I do think that the mass-market, non-niche potential of the PDA has been usurped by cell phones. To sell a PDA now, you have to add all kinds of multimedia and wireless options, which is evidence that the basic organizer functions just don't attract the average buyer anymore. Unless you specifically need the data-centric abilities of a PDA--the ability to write spreadsheets in airports, for example--a cell phone is enough.

Personally, the only reason I still have my Vx is that I don't know of a Weight Watchers journal program for phones.

[iPC]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Delayed. Then delayed indefinetly. Vaporware anyone?


Lethal
Reminds me of the 15" PB update...

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by justytylor
Anybody here ever read William Gibson's Idoru? You, my friend, just described a Sandbenders...

My sister has it checked out from the library right now. I haven't read it. Although I have read Neuromancer and Mona Lisa Overdrive.

[dhns]

Originally posted by barhoptheworld
... The need for PDAs is dieing fast as phones catch up. If someone could combine the ergonomics of a phone, the input area of a quality PDA, and ease of use of lets say... OS X, it would be an ustopable product.... it would take the tech world by storm (ipod style).
Well, my opinion on this topic is that it is not really important whether the PDA dies or not as my "equation" is
PDA + Cellular = Cellular + PDA = Smartphone.

That discussion reminds me a little of reasoning about whether green apples are picked in summer and the red ones will survive...

And to do a little self-marketing: we are working on porting GNUstep (i.e. like the Cocoa kit) to the Sharp Zaurus and want to imitate MacOS X as good as possible. Please look at
http://www.dsitri.de/php/projects/project.php?project=mySTEP

As Linux smart phones become available, we simply start porting...

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by hose this!
Good point. Millions of people will continue to use PDA regardless of whether analysts see it as a growth market or not. Why? Because a lot of people find them very very useful. Another fundamental force to consider is that storage memory will continue to get smaller and cheaper. When 30gb PDAs or phones capable of mp3 playback hit the street, you think anyone's going to dish $500 for an ipod?

At the point when PDA's with 30gb of storage hit the streets, do you really think the iPod will still be $500?

The ipod's been a success because Apple got the size, capacity, and interface right before anyone else. Don't think this is going to last forever.

Microsoft has been trying for almost twenty years now to imitate the ease of use of the MacOS, they have yet to succeed. Rio is has their own HD-based mp3 player, but it isn't nearly as popular as the iPod. The popularity of the iPod will only grow with the release of iTunes for Windows. What keeps me from buying an iPod is the lousy battery life for the most part.

If Apple are truly cunning and not up their own arses too much, they are viewing the iPod as a stepping stone - an intermediate if you will - towards building their expertise in launching a truly amazing portable multifunction device.

Today software was releaed which allows the iPod to download driving directions from MapQuest. Introduce a new input method and you have a PDA for all intents and purposes. Especially cosidering from what I've read in this forum, where most people are only using their PDAs for contacts.

[PHGN]

With the rise of mobile computing and mobile phones the niche for the PDA seems to be shrinking - Contacts and Calendar functions are now best done on the phone, while small and cheep laptops offer much better capability in terms of higher end use, like word processing or other true 'mobile computing' tasks. That WiFi and Bluetooth are now far more common on laptops than PDAs (especially as integrated of standard issue equipment) is an indication of what's wrong with PDAs; they are still seen as stand alone tools.

Computers are infinitely more useful if you can network them, if only to the internet; it could be argued that the growth of networking is one of the main reasons that fuels the growth of the computer market (how many consumer PCs do you not see advertised as 'internet ready'?).

Mobile Phones are by their very nature 'networked'. But there is a practical limitation on phones - their primary purpose still remains voice and txt communication. You can bolt as many feature on them as you like but consumers must be able to carry them - and not need a rucksack to do so. This limits their size, both in terms of volume available for hardware and area available for user I/O. The latter is perhaps the more crippling handicap. With 20 or so keys and a small LCD there are only so many tasks you can do easily (think back to the pre-T9 predictive text entry days and imagine trying to write a report on the train traveling home! or imagine trying to do it even with T9 on that tiny screen). Modern picture phones are already getting a bit big for comfort, and a bit complicated to use.

So though PDAs may some day incorporate mobiles (and no the other way round - think of the Nokia Communicator - to do a reasonable pass at PDA functionality the device must be large enough to ease user I/O) there will always be a niche for mobile phones, small and simple.

So where does the traditional PDA stand? Well functions like Address book, memos, calendar are all easily (and in some cases better) done on a Mobile especially if it can be sync-d with a proper computer. Which is what PDAs used to be good for.

Now a couple of months ago (When I was looking forward to purchasing a PowerBook - I'm still waiting for the new ones) I was on my way home (a 40' journey at best) facing allot more work to do when I got there. The thought of soon being able to whip out my shinny new PowerBook and get started - not just prepare - was some small comfort, especially when the train ground to a halt (Welcome to the UK). Then it dawned on me - my laptop would be in my bag, which I was almost literally standing on at the time for want of space. There would be no way to bend down and get it out of the bag, let alone use it. A PDA in my coat pocket - yes. But even the very best would not have been capable of letting me start truly productive work.

But my (still) imaginary laptop was at my feet in my bag. Well within Bluetooth and Airport range (both of which it would have). PDA could have both as well, no? 54MB/s is enough to handle user I/O isn't it, on a relatively small touch screen?

You can see where I'm going. A PDA with proper wireless connectivity in proximity to a laptop could be used to access the laptop when practicality prohibits the latter’s use. Something say 2-3 times the size of an IPod would have ample space for easy use and decent spec; colour touch screen, big battery, Bluetooth and/or Airport, say a 10-15 Gb HDD and a slow speed G3 or better G4.

Out of rage of the Laptop the relatively high spec would allow the device to be used as a bit more than a glorified mobile phone (without the utility of a phone). It could keep a copy of the owners home directory (good for backup and easy sync-ing between say a home desktop and work desktop even if there is no laptop available) and provide enough capability to run a (limited?) version of OSX - maybe even third party applications without much need to port them. Even without 'Pocket-Photoshop' the utilities in OSX are far more useful then the standard PDA. (And as someone else mentioned what the hell is Inkwell for if you’ve got a keyboard? - Apple is starting to think long term and it fascinating to watch: FCP, Shake, XServe, etc. - they're doing some serious manovering.)

Thinking about usage - the times when you are in a situation where you need to get useful work done but using the laptop may not be practical are usually when you are travelling - to work, to the airport, on the plane etc. i.e. times when the laptop is probably close at hand but 'out of reach'. When the laptops in not nearby but you'd still have the PDA rather than just your Mobile phone, e.g. popping out of the office for a coffee, you probably don’t need to do 'high end' tasks; at most you might read a document (using Preview?) or run in to a colleague who wants to check some figures with you (as you've got a copy of you're home directory you'll have all the reports you wrote with you!). And if there’s a WiFi access point then the machine is easily capable of proper web browsing - none of this expensive and limited WAP stuff.

What I'm suggesting is a new style PDA - no - not a Personal Digital Assistant, but rather a Laptop Extension / (Basic) Handheld Mac (depending on whether the laptop is in range or not). It's role is not that of a Mobile minus the Phone but rather a Laptop minus the lap. It makes mobile computing practical when you need it most - when its often not.

[CmdrLaForge]

Originally posted by PHGN
With the rise of mobile computing and mobile phones the niche for the PDA seems to be shrinking - Contacts and Calendar functions are now best done on the phone, while small and cheep laptops offer much better capability in terms of higher end use, like word processing or other true 'mobile computing' tasks. That WiFi and Bluetooth are now far more common on laptops than PDAs (especially as integrated of standard issue equipment) is an indication of what's wrong with PDAs; they are still seen as stand alone tools.

Computers are infinitely more useful if you can network them, if only to the internet; it could be argued that the growth of networking is one of the main reasons that fuels the growth of the computer market (how many consumer PCs do you not see advertised as 'internet ready'?).

Mobile Phones are by their very nature 'networked'. But there is a practical limitation on phones - their primary purpose still remains voice and txt communication. You can bolt as many feature on them as you like but consumers must be able to carry them - and not need a rucksack to do so. This limits their size, both in terms of volume available for hardware and area available for user I/O. The latter is perhaps the more crippling handicap. With 20 or so keys and a small LCD there are only so many tasks you can do easily (think back to the pre-T9 predictive text entry days and imagine trying to write a report on the train traveling home! or imagine trying to do it even with T9 on that tiny screen). Modern picture phones are already getting a bit big for comfort, and a bit complicated to use.

So though PDAs may some day incorporate mobiles (and no the other way round - think of the Nokia Communicator - to do a reasonable pass at PDA functionality the device must be large enough to ease user I/O) there will always be a niche for mobile phones, small and simple.

So where does the traditional PDA stand? Well functions like Address book, memos, calendar are all easily (and in some cases better) done on a Mobile especially if it can be sync-d with a proper computer. Which is what PDAs used to be good for.

Now a couple of months ago (When I was looking forward to purchasing a PowerBook - I'm still waiting for the new ones) I was on my way home (a 40' journey at best) facing allot more work to do when I got there. The thought of soon being able to whip out my shinny new PowerBook and get started - not just prepare - was some small comfort, especially when the train ground to a halt (Welcome to the UK). Then it dawned on me - my laptop would be in my bag, which I was almost literally standing on at the time for want of space. There would be no way to bend down and get it out of the bag, let alone use it. A PDA in my coat pocket - yes. But even the very best would not have been capable of letting me start truly productive work.

But my (still) imaginary laptop was at my feet in my bag. Well within Bluetooth and Airport range (both of which it would have). PDA could have both as well, no? 54MB/s is enough to handle user I/O isn't it, on a relatively small touch screen?

You can see where I'm going. A PDA with proper wireless connectivity in proximity to a laptop could be used to access the laptop when practicality prohibits the latter’s use. Something say 2-3 times the size of an IPod would have ample space for easy use and decent spec; colour touch screen, big battery, Bluetooth and/or Airport, say a 10-15 Gb HDD and a slow speed G3 or better G4.

Out of rage of the Laptop the relatively high spec would allow the device to be used as a bit more than a glorified mobile phone (without the utility of a phone). It could keep a copy of the owners home directory (good for backup and easy sync-ing between say a home desktop and work desktop even if there is no laptop available) and provide enough capability to run a (limited?) version of OSX - maybe even third party applications without much need to port them. Even without 'Pocket-Photoshop' the utilities in OSX are far more useful then the standard PDA. (And as someone else mentioned what the hell is Inkwell for if you’ve got a keyboard? - Apple is starting to think long term and it fascinating to watch: FCP, Shake, XServe, etc. - they're doing some serious manovering.)

Thinking about usage - the times when you are in a situation where you need to get useful work done but using the laptop may not be practical are usually when you are travelling - to work, to the airport, on the plane etc. i.e. times when the laptop is probably close at hand but 'out of reach'. When the laptops in not nearby but you'd still have the PDA rather than just your Mobile phone, e.g. popping out of the office for a coffee, you probably don’t need to do 'high end' tasks; at most you might read a document (using Preview?) or run in to a colleague who wants to check some figures with you (as you've got a copy of you're home directory you'll have all the reports you wrote with you!). And if there’s a WiFi access point then the machine is easily capable of proper web browsing - none of this expensive and limited WAP stuff.

What I'm suggesting is a new style PDA - no - not a Personal Digital Assistant, but rather a Laptop Extension / (Basic) Handheld Mac (depending on whether the laptop is in range or not). It's role is not that of a Mobile minus the Phone but rather a Laptop minus the lap. It makes mobile computing practical when you need it most - when its often not.

WOW - thats quite a post. :D

[Abstract]

This is a reference design by TI. There is no frame of ref for the size of the device but rest assured its small and light. I firmly believe cell phones are going to be integrated into PDA's rather then PDA's into cell phones. People like working with there data on the go. A cell phone shape and design isn’t conducive to data manipulation\input.

For those of you who think a PDA is useless, well of course its useless if all you're going to say is, "Its useless since my mobile phone can keep my contacts and schedule" --- that's all you want to do. And don't even mention the Newton as the 1st of its kind......it wasn't. There have been electronic organizers for years, even before the Newton. :rolleyes:

My PDA is useful because it keeps my schedule very well, the input method is useful, even if its only Graffiti, and my mobile phone can't match it. There's no input capability as good as Palms, or even PocketPC's. There's a Nokia phone that has this capability, but its over $1000 Cdn dollars and is definitely not worth it.

Here's a Handspring/Palm Treo 600.

http://www.handspring.com/treo600/images/treo_image.jpg

PDA's will never die as long as you can get functionality like this from a PDA. No mobile phone is even close except the Nokia phone, but that's even bigger than this Treo.

[savar]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Bull....
I firmly believe cell phones are going to be integrated into PDA's rather then PDA's into cell phones. People like working with there data on the go. A cell phone shape and design isn’t conducive to data manipulation\input.

I'm thinking otherwise...Phones are closer to being PDAs then PDAs are to being phones. The PDAs are still just a little too bulky. Granted phones don't have the input capabilities, but bluetooth, virtual LED keyboards, and increasingly fine LCD technology are going to make phones highly efficient for the space that they use.

Did you others see the news that Toshiba or somebody just released a new 2cm HD platter? The previous smallest ws 2.5cm. These things are reaching the point were you could put 1G inside of a phone.