Branson Sells Virgin Megastores, renamed Zavvi

[DAC47]

Richard Branson has sold his remaining stake in his original business Virgin retail ( a former employer of mine) and he's taking the Virgin name with him.
the shops will be renamed "Zavvi"!

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/retailing/article2477452.ece

I'd give them about a year before they have to call in the receiver or are forced to merge with HMV
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[bartelby]

HMV are in a decline too, so we could end up with sod all record stores...:(

[edesignuk]

The way things are going they're all doomed to failure.

[AdeFowler]

Well at least HMV are beginning to see the light.

link (http://www.macworld.co.uk/digitallifestyle/news/index.cfm?newsid=19100&pagtype=allchandate)

[Jaffa Cake]

HMV are in a decline too, so we could end up with sod all record stores...:(The big chains didn't give a flying one when they were putting the small, independent shops out of business, so I find it a little hard to have any sympathy for them now that they're feeling the effects of online sales.

[Abstract]

Honestly, why buy Virgin Megastores if you can't keep the name? Part of the chain's value is in the recognizable name. Who wants to go to "Zavvi"?

[DAC47]

HMV are in a decline too, so we could end up with sod all record stores...:(

HMV are struggling but i think there's probably enough room in the market for one big chain,
without beardie around to bail them out Virgin/Zavvi look the weaker chain

[Blue Velvet]

Zavvi: crap name... but if they stop selling dance, trance, house and drum and bass CDs for about £20 each, I might pay them a visit.

[bartelby]

The big chains didn't give a flying one when they were putting the small, independent shops out of business, so I find it a little hard to have any sympathy for them now that they're feeling the effects of online sales.

I have no sympathy for big chains. That's why most of the stuff I buy I order direct from the labels now. I'd rather support them than people who aren't actually interested in music.

Do you remember "A Chain With No Name" stores?

[DAC47]

I have no sympathy for big chains. That's why most of the stuff I buy I order direct from the labels now. I'd rather support them than people who aren't actually interested in music.

Do you remember "A Chain With No Name" stores?

I worked for Our Price and Virgin and I can tell you that they were full of people who are passionate about music.

[iGav]

HMV are in a decline too, so we could end up with sod all record stores...:(

The indies (or at least the good ones) will keep going.

You're hard pushed to find anything outside of the top 40/main labels (that includes the big indie labels) in a HMV store, so it's not a major loss in my opinion.

That said, I give high street record stores (and places like Blockbusters too) 10 years, 15 max. Everything will be downloadable by then.

[bartelby]

I worked for Our Price and Virgin and I can tell you that they were full of people who are passionate about music.

What the board of directors who run the company?

I wasn't talking about the lowly retail staff.

iGav I've seen several extremely good indie store go bust because of big chain stores.
Vinyl Dreams in Cov being one example. Even Spin-a-Disc was good.

EDIT: Just go down Berwick St and see what's left... :(

[DAC47]

What the board or directors who run the company?

I wasn't talking about the lowly retail staff.

Fair point
head office was chocked full of tossers

[faust]

Good for them. I'm happy to pay 9.99 to 13.99 for a new release on iTunes as compared to some of the horrendous 19.99 to even 49.99 cd releases(Those with extra features or b-sides).

[iGav]

iGav I've seen several extremely good indie store go bust because of big chain stores.

I think that the indies will survive the battle, but there will be casualties.

EDIT: Just go down Berwick St and see what's left... :(

There was a lot of mediocre record stores on Berwick Street, so in some respects, they were no great loss.

There used to be a great record shop in Inverness Street in Camden, but I forget its name, and there's a place over in Notting Hill called Minus Zero, that stocked some really weird stuff, and a lot of R.E.M., strangely.

[mkrishnan]

It seems like losing record stores would be a bigger deal in the urban world, where you don't have our Targets and so on that we have readily available... we've been mostly without chain record stores for some time now. A good indie store, though, is worth its weight in gold.

[bartelby]

I think that the indies will survive the battle, but there will be casualties.



There was a lot of mediocre record stores on Berwick Street, so in some respects, they were no great loss.

There used to be a great record shop in Inverness Street in Camden, but I forget its name, and there's a place over in Notting Hill called Minus Zero, that stocked some really weird stuff, and a lot of R.E.M., strangely.

Of course, it's all subjective...

[iGav]

Of course, it's all subjective...

How many vinyl dance music shops does one street actually need? ;) :p

Consider the old adage, it's not the quantity but the... ;)

Still, there's much better places to buy records in London. :D

[bartelby]

How many vinyl dance music shops does one street actually need? ;) :p

Consider the old adage, it's not the quantity but the... ;)

Still, there's much better places to buy records in London. :D

There are vinyl dance music shops?

I was talking about Select-a-disc and Reckless Records and even SisterRay a few years back.

[Jaffa Cake]

I was talking about Select-a-disc and Reckless Records and even SisterRay a few years back.Ah, Selectadisc. I spent many a happy hour perusing their wares when I lived in Nottingham. Fantastic place.

[solvs]

Tower Records went out here as well. It was only a matter of time for Virgin, who have been turning more and more into Hot Topic wannabes. Always seemed a little "me too" as it was. Actually, most of what he did seemed "me too"ish. The stores, the cell phones, the airline, the online music store. Been there, done that with all of them. Maybe if he brought something new to the table, it would have been different.

Mouth shaped toilets (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=65167) apparently wasn't it.

[Iscariot]

The decline of chain stores in certain sectors and the collapse of other sectors due to outsourcing make for some strange economic times ahead.

[ezekielrage_99]

Well at least HMV are beginning to see the light.

link (http://www.macworld.co.uk/digitallifestyle/news/index.cfm?newsid=19100&pagtype=allchandate)

Not in Australia, HMV is officially dead.... HMV are in the office above my and they're clearin' out the office because they have gone bust here and the rest of the company have been liquidated or bought out by Sanity. Also the fact that HMV in Australia got caught selling pirates CDs didn't help the business either.....

JBHifi (Virgin, HMV and Sanity's competition) has absolutely obliterated all competition in Australia because they are cheaper, have more stuff and overall a better place to shop.

[Abstract]

Sanity = Virgin. :)

[DAC47]

Not in Australia, HMV is officially dead.... HMV are in the office above my and they're clearin' out the office because they have gone bust here and the rest of the company have been liquidated or bought out by Sanity. Also the fact that HMV in Australia got caught selling pirates CDs didn't help the business either.....

JBHifi (Virign, HMV and Sanity's competition) has absolutely obliterated all competition in Australia because they are cheaper, have more stuff and overall a better place to shop.

Sanity bought the Our Price chain in the uk and managed to drive it out of business in about a year.
The management was so bad that i know of one shop were all the staff quit on mass they were so sick off it.

anyway to some up music retail is a house built on sand

[Flump72]

I work at head office (Virgin Retail) and I'm not a tosser.

Me and the people in my department are just as passionate and knowledgeable about music as the people on the shop floor. We all came from the shop floor.

But the people at the very top level who make the decisions about the direction of the company generally come from financial backgrounds and we all know what that means.

Needless to say we are all staggered at the new name, and the seemingly flippant loss of the Virgin heritage, history and legacy that will disappear down the drain.

I imagine there'll be lots of rats deserting the sinking ship (before they're pushed).

Other than that, I do think it would be a shame to see a total lack of record shops on the high street, even if they are just faceless chains.

[puckhead193]

^^^ hello person from PR :p
As i live in the "State" i never really shop at Virgin. Mostly at Best buy and ITMS, so it doesn't really matter to me. I'm shocked that he sold his baby

[DAC47]

I work at head office (Virgin Retail) and I'm not a tosser.

Me and the people in my department are just as passionate and knowledgeable about music as the people on the shop floor. We all came from the shop floor.

But the people at the very top level who make the decisions about the direction of the company generally come from financial backgrounds and we all know what that means.

Needless to say we are all staggered at the new name, and the seemingly flippant loss of the Virgin heritage, history and legacy that will disappear down the drain.

I imagine there'll be lots of rats deserting the sinking ship (before they're pushed).

Other than that, I do think it would be a shame to see a total lack of record shops on the high street, even if they are just faceless chains.

ok sorry about that i was making a broad generalisation
obviously i'm not going to name names here but some of the regional mangers in Virgin (and Our Price before that) are amongst the worst people i've ever met
I could also name some great managers also but as always the bad outshine the good.

i agree with you on the last point i'd prefer to buy music from a big high street faceless chain shop than Tesco or Asda

[ezekielrage_99]

Sanity = Virgin. :)

We have both stores in Australia, Sanity and Virgin... Ironically both are overpriced and overrated.

[mduser63]

I used to quite enjoy Virgin Megastore. It was one of the main reasons I went to Gateway mall here in Salt Lake. It closed a couple months ago now, and so now really the only reason to go is the Apple Store there.

[DAC47]

Circling the drain?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/3743311/DVD-chain-Zavvi-prepares-for-worst.html

didn't need to be Nostradamus to see this one coming!

[Abstract]

Whoa, the loss of 30,000 jobs? Time for a mini bailout package.

[Blue Velvet]

The only Zavvi (crap cheap-sounding name) I have been into a few times was definitely a step down from the former Virgin store.

They'd slashed their range and had lots of cheap specials piled up everywhere... they'd closed the jazz and classical section, the store was quiet and it just felt as though it was never going to amount to much. Say what you like about the Virgin megastores, at least they tried to have something for everyone.

[bartelby]

The only Zavvi (crap cheap-sounding name) I have been into a few times was definitely a step down from the former Virgin store.

They're awful aren't they. The ones I've been to feel like a Poundstretcher of then cd/dvd world.

[Abstract]

What? I liked Virgin Megastores. The bigger the better. I have bought lots of music from the one near TCR station in London because they'll even have albums from smaller bands in stock. They also had free concerts and such from upcoming bands. I saw Idlewild perform at the TCR store before they got massive, and they stayed behind and signed autographs. I think it was when they released The Remote Part, with the song American English on it. I'm actually not a big fan at all, so I don't remember.

[Blue Velvet]

What? I liked Virgin Megastores.

I generally liked them too but didn't like their prices in certain sections. I buy everything through Amazon and its resellers, and eBay these days. Gone are the days of paying £11-12 per album, even up to £14 for some releases. Eight CDs have just shipped today to me from Amazon for about £55, far better value.

[remmy]

I generally liked them too but didn't like their prices in certain sections. I buy everything through Amazon and its resellers, and eBay these days. Gone are the days of paying £11-12 per album, even up to £14 for some releases. Eight CDs have just shipped today to me from Amazon for about £55, far better value.

Hitting the nail on the head. And even the biggest stores which you would have to travel to don't always have the artist you want. I only go in when someone gives me music vouchers for birthday/christmas.

[Abstract]

I generally liked them too but didn't like their prices in certain sections. I buy everything through Amazon and its resellers, and eBay these days. Gone are the days of paying £11-12 per album, even up to £14 for some releases. Eight CDs have just shipped today to me from Amazon for about £55, far better value.

Well then it's not the store that's the problem. Online purchasing just happens to be a lot cheaper, which is understandable considering the money they save by not having a physical shop.

[OllyW]

They're awful aren't they. The ones I've been to feel like a Poundstretcher of then cd/dvd world.

Except Poundstretcher is cheap.

I used to like Fopp, loads of choice with great prices. It's a pity it wasn't economically viable. :D

[bartelby]

Except Poundstretcher is cheap.

I used to like Fopp, loads of choice with great prices. It's a pity it wasn't economically viable. :D

Some Fopps reopened as Fopp (around 14 I think) and others just changed their names.
I was pleasantly surprised last time I went to Bristol to find Fopp was open again.

In Leamington Fopp changed it's name to Head. Still the same prices and doing very well. I guess Fopp's original management were the problem.

[DAC47]

Turns out after further reading that their main problem is that they now get all their stock through Entertainment UK which is part of Woolworths:eek: so they can't get any stock in December which is pretty much fatal for record shop.
Back when i worked for Virgin we use to get the stock directly from the distributors EMI, BMG, TEN etc so this wouldn't have been a problem.
I think they were in for a very tough Xmas anyway but really is a disaster

[OllyW]

Some Fopps reopened as Fopp (around 14 I think) and others just changed their names.
I was pleasantly surprised last time I went to Bristol to find Fopp was open again.

In Leamington Fopp changed it's name to Head. Still the same prices and doing very well. I guess Fopp's original management were the problem.

I see the new Fopp is part of HMV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fopp_(retailer)#Reopening).

Bristol is a bit to far to save a couple of quid on some CDs, but I'll have to take a look in Head next time I'm over that way.

[DAC47]

i think Fopp was doing ok but the Bank lost confidence in the chains management. the problem they had is that that their margins were really small you don't make much profit from a £5 back cat CD!

[leekohler]

Every corporate record store- Tower, Virgin, etc has closed in Chicago. The only ones tha have survived (ironically) are the small independent stores that sell vinyl as well as books, memorabilia, etc. The days of the corporate record store are completely over.

[bartelby]

Every corporate record store- Tower, Virgin, etc has closed in Chicago. The only ones tha have survived (ironically) are the small independent stores that sell vinyl as well as books, memorabilia, etc. The days of the corporate record store are completely over.

There are (or were) some bloody awesome record stores in the Chicago area. I remember having to lug back about $400 of second hand vinyl about 10 years ago. Mainly from the 3 Evanston stores I found

[leekohler]

There are (or were) some bloody awesome record stores in the Chicago area. I remember having to lug back about $400 of second hand vinyl about 10 years ago. Mainly from the 3 Evanston stores I found

Yes there are! We have one in my hood called Laurie's Planet of Sound. It's great and does tons of business. The corporate record stores lost out because they lost sight of what was important- quality.

[DAC47]

Yes there are! We have one in my hood called Laurie's Planet of Sound. It's great and does tons of business. The corporate record stores lost out because they lost sight of what was important- quality.

Since when does quality sell?
the general music buying public have no concept of quality
look at the charts

The reason corporate record shop chains have failed is that their business model has been under-cut from about 6 different directions.

[Markleshark]

Since when does quality sell?
the general music buying public have no concept of quality
look at the charts

Each to their own. ;)

[bartelby]

Since when does quality sell?
the general music buying public have no concept of quality
look at the charts
.

I think leekohler may have been talking about the quality of the store rather than the music they sell.

[DAC47]

I think leekohler may have been talking about the quality of the store rather than the music they sell.

fair point
but that's subjective also
a lot of people would prefer to go bright well laid out megastore than spend Saturday afternoon flicking through photocopied CD covers in Spllers
(you and I might prefer the latter but the great unwashed probably wouldn't agree)

[DAC47]

i just want to add that all my opinions on this subject are coloured by the experience of working for over a decade (on and off) in music retail. (yes the big, nasty, soulless, corporate, soon-to-be-extinct variety exemplified by Our price and Virgin)

[Badradio]

i think Fopp was doing ok but the Bank lost confidence in the chains management. the problem they had is that that their margins were really small you don't make much profit from a £5 back cat CD!

I imagine you can make a good profit selling LOTS of £5 back cat CDs. I know a lot of people who use FOPP to fill those cassette-shaped holes in their CD collections.

I can't remember the specifics, but I seem to remember the issue was that the FOPP management bought up all of the Music Zone stores when they went bankrupt, but over-extended their finances to do it.

I buy almost all of my music (and a lot of DVDs) from FOPP in Manchester it's a great store. Now Zavvi... The Virgin stores were always overpriced, and I've not seen a change. I pick up the odd sale item, but for new releases, I'm straight back to FOPP.

[bartelby]

but that's subjective also
a lot of people would prefer to go bright well laid out megastore than spend Saturday afternoon flicking through photocopied CD covers in Spllers
(you and I might prefer the latter but the great unwashed probably wouldn't agree)

I can't stand Spillers. Diverse in Newport isn't any better.
I generally go direct to record Labels now as I'm not paying a £5 markup for a shop to have to order in what I want anyway.

[william sire]

I just have a something to throw out there for thought. I have been a comic book collector and I have seen the same thing happen to the comic industry. With the beginning of the "direct market" In both records and comics it not only saved both respective industries, it propelled them to new heights of success. But I think both industries suffered from the same thing, the lack of producers marketing product that met consumer demand.

For anyone who doesn't know what I talking about the gist of the direct market is this... previous to their conception, product like records, would be distributed to larger stores to be sold in their record departments. The store would sell what they could and return the unsold merchandise along with the payment for what they were able to sell. The direct market allowed retailers for a much lower cost to purchase the merchandise however they paid for it and kept what they didn't sell.

This also allowed producers to increase their market production because all was now a guaranteed sell. This is where I believe producers lost sight of meeting consumer market demand. The over saturation of product on the market which consumers have no interest in has eventually caught up on the market exchange rate and hurt retailers first, like Virgin.

Todays music, comics, DVD's (I talking about the "straight to DVD" movies) and entertainment in general (like the product sold in Virgin stores) is horrible. Not ignoring the very talented and deserving performers but there are still way to many talentless and undeserving performers that are out there riding this gravy train that quite frankly shouldn't be there and in the previous more demanding market (go back to the early eighties and before) would not be. Like wise the whole industry has suffered for it and the stores at the bottom of the chain are the first to take on casualties.

But that's what I think. What say you?

[leekohler]

fair point
but that's subjective also
a lot of people would prefer to go bright well laid out megastore than spend Saturday afternoon flicking through photocopied CD covers in Spllers
(you and I might prefer the latter but the great unwashed probably wouldn't agree)

The market is proving you wrong. Those people you speak of are downloading their music and throwing it on their iPods or other mp3 players. The people who buy Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera aren't buying vinyl copies of their albums. They're downloading singles.

People who want different music are going to small independent, niche market record stores. Been to those lately? They're thriving. The days of the huge, corporate record store are over- plain and simple. That model doesn't work anymore.

I just have a something to throw out there for thought. I have been a comic book collector and I have seen the same thing happen to the comic industry. With the beginning of the "direct market" In both records and comics it not only saved both respective industries, it propelled them to new heights of success. But I think both industries suffered from the same thing, the lack of producers marketing product that met consumer demand.

For anyone who doesn't know what I talking about the gist of the direct market is this... previous to their conception, product like records, would be distributed to larger stores to be sold in their record departments. The store would sell what they could and return the unsold merchandise along with the payment for what they were able to sell. The direct market allowed retailers for a much lower cost to purchase the merchandise however they paid for it and kept what they didn't sell.

This also allowed producers to increase their market production because all was now a guaranteed sell. This is where I believe producers lost sight of meeting consumer market demand. The over saturation of product on the market which consumers have no interest in has eventually caught up on the market exchange rate and hurt retailers first, like Virgin.

Todays music, comics, DVD's (I talking about the "straight to DVD" movies) and entertainment in general (like the product sold in Virgin stores) is horrible. Not ignoring the very talented and deserving performers but there are still way to many talentless and undeserving performers that are out there riding this gravy train that quite frankly shouldn't be there and in the previous more demanding market (go back to the early eighties and before) would not be. Like wise the whole industry has suffered for it and the stores at the bottom of the chain are the first to take on casualties.

But that's what I think. What say you?

I also agree with this post, except from what I'm seeing, the stores at the bottom (the independent stores) are making a killing. It's the big ones that are taking the hit.

[DAC47]

The market is proving you wrong. Those people you speak of are downloading their music and throwing it on their iPods or other mp3 players. The people who buy Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera aren't buying vinyl copies of their albums. They're downloading singles.

People who want different music are going to small independent, niche market record stores. Been to those lately? They're thriving. The days of the huge, corporate record store are over- plain and simple. That model doesn't work anymore.



I also agree with this post, except from what I'm seeing, the stores at the bottom (the independent stores) are making a killing. It's the big ones that are taking the hit.

That might be that case in the U.S. but i don't see any areas of physical music distribution thriving
maybe this is case in London. But don't see anything but pain for everybody big or small round here.:(

[Abstract]

The market is proving you wrong. Those people you speak of are downloading their music and throwing it on their iPods or other mp3 players. The people who buy Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera aren't buying vinyl copies of their albums. They're downloading singles.

People who want different music are going to small independent, niche market record stores. Been to those lately? They're thriving. The days of the huge, corporate record store are over- plain and simple. That model doesn't work anymore.


Don't know whose market you're referring to.

I don't think physical music stores, large or independent, are doing very well these days.

Sure, you could probably reply with a, "But there's this music store in Chicago that......" which (you believe) is doing well. Maybe there is. But overall, the market still isn't buying a heck of a lot of albums. There are some albums that sell really well. There's always 1 or 2 each year that sell like they did 10 years ago, and they're almost always hip-hop albums. Doesn't mean that independent music stores are thriving though. Not generally, anyway.

[bartelby]

maybe this is case in London. But don't see anything but pain for everybody big or small round here.:(

I think the problem round here is there are no decent music shops.
Diverse in Newport will order stuff if they like you, if they don't they just keep stringing you along.
Rock-a-Way in Newport (if it's still going) is ok but expensive and he hasn't got accounts with some of the big distributors.
Spillers in Cardiff is just rubbish with the photocopied crap.

Then you've got your generic HMVs and such. All overpriced and limited in their selection. I've never tried ordering stuff through a large chain, but I'm betting it's not cheap or easy.

[leekohler]

Don't know whose market you're referring to.

I don't think physical music stores, large or independent, are doing very well these days.

Sure, you could probably reply with a, "But there's this music store in Chicago that......" which (you believe) is doing well. Maybe there is. But overall, the market still isn't buying a heck of a lot of albums. There are some albums that sell really well. There's always 1 or 2 each year that sell like they did 10 years ago, and they're almost always hip-hop albums. Doesn't mean that independent music stores are thriving though. Not generally, anyway.

I mentioned the market earlier- it's niche/independent/vinyl. Those places are doing very well here and always seem to be quite busy. Laurie's Planet of Sound, three locations of Reckless Records, Gramophone Records and several others that I pass from time to time whose names escape me at the moment. Gramophone is especially hopping, being that they specialize in vinyl for DJs. These are the businesses that have found ways to keep going and even thrive.

[sared]

that's a horrible name.

[leekohler]

that's a horrible name.

It is pretty bad. I don't get it.

[SpaceMagic]

I can't stand Spillers. Diverse in Newport isn't any better.
I generally go direct to record Labels now as I'm not paying a £5 markup for a shop to have to order in what I want anyway.


Spillers was always a cool shop, but the photocopies were annoying.

Everyone could have predicted this as soon as downloads started to dominate. Supermarkets will eventually be the only physical retail place to buy CDs and DVDs.

[it5five]

The big chains didn't give a flying one when they were putting the small, independent shops out of business, so I find it a little hard to have any sympathy for them now that they're feeling the effects of online sales.

Agreed. Good riddance to these big chains. I either buy my music straight from the labels or a local independent record shop.

[DAC47]

Oh Dear
Zavvi placed into administration
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6386153.stm

feel pretty bad for my friends who still work there:(

Merry Christmas

[MacBoobsPro]

Oh Dear
Zavvi placed into administration
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6386153.stm

feel pretty bad for my friends who still work there:(

Merry Christmas

Wow. You got it spot on in your first post.

[JackMaurer]

iTunes will take over them all eventually:apple:

[bartelby]

iTunes will take over them all eventually:apple:


I sincerely hope not...

[eluk]

Oh Dear
Zavvi placed into administration
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6386153.stm

feel pretty bad for my friends who still work there:(

Merry Christmas

They're not dead. There has merely been a glitch in the supply chain due to Woolies going belly-up.

[DAC47]

They're not dead. There has merely been a glitch in the supply chain due to Woolies going belly-up.

"its not dead, just sleeping"

if you can't get stock in December, in this business you may as well be dead.