PowerMac G5's Arriving...

[MacRumors]

MacBidouille reports (http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-08-20#381) that PowerMac G5s should start arriving in France later this week and MacWorld.co.uk (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=6763) claims as early as tomorrow for UK readers.

We've received our first report of a California-based user acquiring a PowerMac G5 1.6GHz yesterday. We're still awaiting photos and benchmark reports.

We will try to provide cumulative reports on PowerMac reports and performance on MacRumors as they accumulate, but individual links and photos will be posted in real-time to MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com/) as they come in.

[aikomhoch]

SSIA
:D

[Powerbook G5]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeet!:D

[dethl]

Good to see the first of the G5's finally making it to the people who preordered them.

Anyone here on Macrumors received their 1.6 or 1.8 ghz G5 yet? I'm itchin to see some benchmarks!

Here's hoping my dual 2 G5 will get to me ASAP...I'm going off to college this friday!

[dxp4acu]

I hope so too dtheyl.

A G5 in the dorm would be just too sweet! Talk about switchers all over the place, you'll have your friends drooling in no time!

Carlsbad, eh? I'm from Odessa, not too far away. I enjoy your caverns...

[mactastic]

Wow, so cool... can't wait to see the specs!

[Powerbook G5]

Originally posted by dxp4acu
I enjoy your caverns...

I could say something to that, but I'll be good... :D

[mainstreetmark]

I'd be open to pre-ordering the revised 17" PowerBook, even before they announce the stats.

[trilogic]

hurraayyy

now, where is my dual 2Ghz? ... :confused:


"beeing assembled" it says :( :)

[macabre]

Any word on what the mouse and keyboard look like?

[arn]

Originally posted by macabre
Any word on what the mouse and keyboard look like?

sounds like it's the regular keyboard that's coming with the eMacs.

arn

[gothamac]

Shipping the G5 with the Emac keyboard would be like shipping a Ferrari with
wheels from a ford.

[KentuckyApple]

Honestly, i couldn't care less what kind of keyboard it comes with. I'd be happy to use my orange imac keyboard with the thing as long as I have it sitting in my office. What a bunch of babies!

[adamfilip]

i dont think the emac keyboard is that bad..
its basicly the same.. just not adjustable.

k so anyways.. this person who got their G5.. where are the pics the benchmarks.. common show me the G5!

[Powerbook G5]

Very true, if I wanted a sweet keyboard/mouse combo to go with it, I'd buy one from a 3rd party to go with it. The point is, the G5 is a great computer and a keyboard can always be swapped out.

[bertagert]

Guy on the thinksecret boards says there are 1.6 & 1.8 at the Stanford University bookstore. Has a pic of the boxes in the storage room.

Think secret board (http://www.pstheme.com/cgi-bin/think/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=14;t=1323)

[Powerbook G5]

What a site to behold! A whole wall of G5 boxes :)

[adamfilip]

crappy pic.. but AWESOME!

its from an Isight aparently

i attached the pic

[arn]

Someone submitted this image link:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/freeradical/g5inside.jpg

[adamfilip]

COOL that looks like the 1.6.. i cant see 8 memory slots

[adamfilip]

interesting.. it looks like the 4 memory slots are seperated in two pairs of two.. not in just one bunch of 4

[dethl]

Any keyboard/mouse pics? :rolleyes:

[sososowhat]

I just called the Stanford Bookstore, and they said they got 50-60 1.6 & 1.8's in and, get this:

THEY'RE NOT PRE-SOLD. WALK IN & BUY ONE.
650-329-1217.

[adamfilip]

its already been said that the keyboard and mouse are the same that is shipping with the emac..

[tlhash]

I just drug it into photoshop and adjusted levels. Theres only 4 slots.

[adamfilip]

Originally posted by sososowhat
I just called the Stanford Bookstore, and they said they got 50-60 1.6 & 1.8's in and, get this:

THEY'RE NOT PRE-SOLD. WALK IN & BUY ONE.
650-329-1217.

NO FRICK'n WAY!?

MAN i wish i lived near by

[KREX725]

It looks so clean! It reminds me of the inside of the Death Star.

I'm in love!:cool:

[gothamac]

It's only a matter of time before someone starts marketing a clear side panel to show off the inside of these machines.

[dethl]

Originally posted by sososowhat
I just called the Stanford Bookstore, and they said they got 50-60 1.6 & 1.8's in and, get this:

THEY'RE NOT PRE-SOLD. WALK IN & BUY ONE.
650-329-1217.

Students only I presume?

Not that it matters to me, I'm waiting on my dual G5. I just wanted to know if they are limiting who they are selling to.

[freaky57]

Looks really cool! it is noice to see one up close. It looks a little difficult to add more RAM not to much room in there . I wonder if it is easy to configure?:

[Powerbook G5]

The fan units on top of the RAM bay slides right out so you can get to the RAM pretty easily. And yes, it is very clean and sexy. I now wish I went to that school so I can just walk in and buy a 1.8! :)

[adamfilip]

its neat watching the numebr of page views in this thread.. each time i refresh the screen. it jumps 2-3 views..

1.5 views a sec.. prob average

[sososowhat]

I don't think it's limited to students. They guy also said "maybe" when I asked if they were getting the dual 2.0's in next week.

[tychay]

Originally posted by adamfilip
interesting.. it looks like the 4 memory slots are seperated in two pairs of two.. not in just one bunch of 4

Makes a lot of sense actually. DDR RAM in the G5 Mac is dual channel, hence the 800Mhz effective bandwidth (666Mhz in the case of the 1.6Ghz G5). This means that the separate memory controllers pull from separate banks. This way they don't need different wiring between models and makes it intuitive to the user how to place down their RAM in separate banks when they buy RAM in pairs.

In the PC world they usually color code the DIMM slots (not that this helps, I've seen more than a few PCs where the RAM was installed serially, halving the effective bandwidth) or, in the case of the budget boards that are in the cheaper Dell/HP boxen and SFF PCs, they only have two slots--you'd think they couldn't mess that up, but you'd be wrong, more than a few buy single stick 512MB RAMs instead of 2x256MB and Dell and HP entry PCs only contain one stick (with no information on why to purchase otherwise in their configurators).

Take care,

terry

[adamfilip]

um didnt someone just post that

[pkradd]

t's only a matter of time before someone starts marketing a clear side panel to show off the inside of these machines.

Well actually there is. You can remove the outer aluminum cover which reveals a clear plastic panel. The panel helps with the airflow and must be in place when running the G5. (I'm not sure but either the G5 goes to sleep when it is removed or slows down considerably to keep the processor cool.

[adamfilip]

Originally posted by pkradd
either the G5 goes to sleep when it is removed or slows down considerably to keep the processor cool.

really?

thats cool ive never heard that before

[tychay]

Originally posted by gothamac
It's only a matter of time before someone starts marketing a clear side panel to show off the inside of these machines.

Too late, if you ever bothered to look at the Apple Quicktime VR (http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/pmacg5_jun2003_480.html) of it, you see that that you can remove the aluminum door and leave the clear-plastic panel on (for airflow reasons).

I imagine a lot of people will be leaving their Mac like that in the coming months. :-)

Take care,

terry

[Powerbook G5]

Sounds like a case for transparent aluminum! Where's Scotty when you need him... *hums Star Trek theme*

[adamfilip]

speaking of scotty.

Who hears loves Star Trek? I DO!

nothing is better then talking Macs and Trek

well unless you wanna talk Mac's , Trek and Subarus

but Subarus arent that popular (unfortunately)

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
I'd be open to pre-ordering the revised 17" PowerBook, even before they announce the stats.

Me too.

[Powerbook G5]

Originally posted by adamfilip
speaking of scotty.

Who hears loves Star Trek? I DO!

nothing is better then talking Macs and Trek

well unless you wanna talk Mac's , Trek and Subarus

but Subarus arent that popular (unfortunately)

The three things I love! Macs, Star Trek, and Subaru Imprezas, oh how sweet life is. :)

[nagromme]

Originally posted by adamfilip
its neat watching the numebr of page views in this thread.. each time i refresh the screen. it jumps 2-3 views..

That would be 1-2, not counting your own refresh :)

[gothamac]

Originally posted by pkradd
Well actually there is. You can remove the outer aluminum cover which reveals a clear plastic panel. The panel helps with the airflow and must be in place when running the G5. (I'm not sure but either the G5 goes to sleep when it is removed or slows down considerably to keep the processor cool.

I'm thinking more like a panel identical to the aluminum outer cover. I think it's important to preserve the clean lines. I'm sure something like that is in the works as we speak. They've been waiting to get an actual panel to make the mold.

[mactastic]

Hmmm... I've got a buddy workin at Stanford. Now if only I had the money for a G5.

[adamfilip]

Originally posted by nagromme
That would be 1-2, not counting your own refresh :)

im not refreshing while viewing the tread. just refreshing in the thread listings

[webplummer]

Funny. It appears they kept the motherboards blue. Right? Is that shot of the 1.6 inside a production model? It was my understanding that blue motherboards were part of R&D color-code for a beta. They would go to green for production.

But if they kept them blue. Bitchin.

[Genie]

Can't wait to get mine!

[Edot]

Originally posted by webplummer
Funny. It appears they kept the motherboards blue. Right? Is that shot of the 1.6 inside a production model? It was my understanding that blue motherboards were part of R&D color-code for a beta. They would go to green for production.

But if they kept them blue. Bitchin.

I believe the iMac motherboards are blue.

[adamfilip]

in that photo of the inside of the 1.6

it only has one fan. blowing onto the single processor
but at the back of the heat sink there are spaces for two fans..
are there two fans or only one.. and one empty slot for a fan?

[Powerbook G5]

Haven't seem the cases really myself for the singles, but I imagine the case is the same despite single or dual, it's just the board that is different, so I imagine there is the space for the second fan on the case anyway. And as far as the boards being blue...I thought they were always blue?

[MrMacMan]

Excellent !!

Great News indeed.

If they get shipping we can see how fast they are running and See Folding in action!

:D

Have fun!

[Powerbook G5]

Mmm...folding on a dual G5...that'd be like using a Ferrari to do pizza deliveries... :)

[Zwiggles]

Originally posted by gothamac
It's only a matter of time before someone starts marketing a clear side panel to show off the inside of these machines.


Well it just happens that I'm sitting on two $200,000 laser cutters that cut and polish Plexi Glass. If anyone would want a window, first let me know if there are screw holes for the window to attach to the case with and secondly, let me know the locations and dimentions of the screw holes and case it self. If you want a funky color or some custom ingraving with your logo or what ever, I can do that too.

robzwick@hotmail.com

Cheers

[Powerbook G5]

Looks like we just started something really cool :cool:

[onemilkid]

Originally posted by gothamac
It's only a matter of time before someone starts marketing a clear side panel to show off the inside of these machines.

Actually they are already included, as far as I know, so that you can have the G5 running with the side open. The vents/fans need a closed room to work

[visor]

It's a pitty I think that they only feature one double processor System. The real speed bonus comes in the multi Processor environment.

Now imagine a developer programming on a single proc system... he can't even dream of all the enhancments he could make on a 2 CPU system...

Anyway, nice they are finally shipping. If I can walk into a store and take it away - I'll be tempted. ;)

[visor]

Originally posted by MrMacman
Excellent !!

Great News indeed.

If they get shipping we can see how fast they are running and See Folding in action!


I don't think the folding cores are optimized for the g5 yet - even though, I believe the folding could dramatically speed up with true 64bit processing.

[Powerbook G5]

Who knows what the next round of speed bumps will yield? Perhaps a dual 1.8 in the low/mid range?

[ImAlwaysRight]

Originally posted by sososowhat
I just called the Stanford Bookstore, and they said they got 50-60 1.6 & 1.8's in and, get this:

THEY'RE NOT PRE-SOLD. WALK IN & BUY ONE. That makes sense. People waiting on their orders and we got 60 of them waiting in a campus bookstore that can probably only be sold to students/staff of that university, or at best, you gotta live there to go pick it up. :(

They sure better not have a stockpile of 2.0's by the end of the month when I'm still waiting on my pre-order since July! :mad:

One more thing... what is with all the peeps across the web asking about the keyboard and mouse? This is on other forums, too. The keyboard on the new eMacs IS the new Apple keyboard ... NOTHING DIFFERENT WILL BE COMING WITH THE G5! As for the mouse, yup, nothing has changed either. Reminds me of the Spongebob episode where Spongebob and Patrick throw away the TV so they can play with the box! :rolleyes:

[Powerbook G5]

The G5 box seems to be pretty spiffy, too!

[sedarby]

Originally posted by ImAlwaysRight
That makes sense. People waiting on their orders and we got 60 of them waiting in a campus bookstore that can probably only be sold to students/staff of that university, or at best, you gotta live there to go pick it up. :(

They sure better not have a stockpile of 2.0's by the end of the month when I'm still waiting on my pre-order since July! :mad:

One more thing... what is with all the peeps across the web asking about the keyboard and mouse? This is on other forums, too. The keyboard on the new eMacs IS the new Apple keyboard ... NOTHING DIFFERENT WILL BE COMING WITH THE G5! As for the mouse, yup, nothing has changed either. Reminds me of the Spongebob episode where Spongebob and Patrick throw away the TV so they can play with the box! :rolleyes:
Preordering is a scam. It's a way for manufacturers to build capital without delivering anything. I believe this happened with the 17" Powerbook that you could walk in and buy one before those who preordered recieved theirs. It is a shame that they (Apple, etc.) do this to people but anyway, looking forward to walking in and walking out with a dual 2 ghz G5 (after appropriate payment has been arranged of course! :))

Seriously, what does preordering really do for you?

[jaedreth]

Not all cases will the pre-order'er not get their machine first.

However, I do not pre-order. I want to go buy it. Alas, no Apple Retail Store here. Apple hates Austin, even though their most experienced and most technically adept call center in the world is there. I should know, I worked there.

Anyways, I want to get my grubby hands on one in person. Too many bad experiences ordering online. Which means, I'm off to Fry's electronics as soon as they get one.

Jaedreth

[edStar]

I agree with previous comments that the innards of the G5 look extremely clean and neat. A triumph of Apple hardware design.

Also about the G5 boxes at the uni, wouldn't they have pre-orded them aswell?? And wouldn't it be a first-serve basis??

I'm sure that Apple are not playing favourites.

[webplummer]

Originally posted by sedarby
Preordering is a scam. It's a way for manufacturers to build capital without delivering anything.

No building of capital takes place with preorders. They can't make you pay for the order till it's ready to ship, and they can't claim it in their quarterlies unless it's shipped.

A nice way to get cheap fast delivery on stuff is to order two days before close of the fiscal quarter and get cheap shipping. Many times companies will expedite shipping ust squeeze the last dollars into their earning reports.

[saint.duo]

I'll believe it when I see it. I would assume that you were lied to by whoever you talked to.

From what I've been told by Apple:
1.6s have shipped to priority higher education customers (not stores).
Some apple stores have non-functional display models.
No 1.6s have shipped to consumers, apple stores, or resellers.
No 1.8s have shipped AT ALL.

Originally posted by sososowhat
I just called the Stanford Bookstore, and they said they got 50-60 1.6 & 1.8's in and, get this:

THEY'RE NOT PRE-SOLD. WALK IN & BUY ONE.
650-329-1217.

[akac]

In other words - the people who need them the most at the right time (since school JUST started) get them first.

Honestly, its a smart move. All educational orders first. Wish I was still in education.

[macabre]

Originally posted by KentuckyApple
Honestly, i couldn't care less what kind of keyboard it comes with. I'd be happy to use my orange imac keyboard with the thing as long as I have it sitting in my office. What a bunch of babies!

The point is that the keyboard and mouse SHOULD MATCH the case. And they probably will too, look at the iSight. If either their inventory is too high, or they are not ready for production, it is just a little disapointing to have a work of art that doesn't match. Not so much a Ferrari with Ford wheels, but a black Ferrari with an all white interior. Its not that bad, its still a Ferrari, but it just doesn't look right. Yeah, I'm a perfectionist, I want everything to look just right in my workspace. And I know that there are alternatives that might look better, but I expect more from Apple.

P.S.
Just for the record, I'm not really complaining.

[Wonder Boy]

how would someone who doesn't know much about benchmarks go about getting benchmarks? BTW, the g5 isn't mine, im just curious.

[zen]

Originally posted by Zwiggles
Well it just happens that I'm sitting on two $200,000 laser cutters that cut and polish Plexi Glass. If anyone would want a window, first let me know if there are screw holes for the window to attach to the case with and secondly, let me know the locations and dimentions of the screw holes and case it self. If you want a funky color or some custom ingraving with your logo or what ever, I can do that too.

If you take a look at all the shots of the demo G5's that were shown off in the US and Europe, you'll see that the transparent inner door isn't flat, but it contoured to fit in and around some of the spaces on the inside of the machine.

So unfortunately it's not just a flat panel that can be stuck on, which probably puts glass replacements out of the running.

zen

[PowerBook User]

Cool! The Power Macs are shipping on time! It's not even the last day of August (although the duals might ship then:rolleyes: ).

[plastree]

Originally posted by zen
If you take a look at all the shots of the demo G5's that were shown off in the US and Europe, you'll see that the transparent inner door isn't flat, but it contoured to fit in and around some of the spaces on the inside of the machine.

So unfortunately it's not just a flat panel that can be stuck on, which probably puts glass replacements out of the running.

zen

I think he intends to make a replacement for the outer metal panel, not the inner door.

[Powerbook G5]

I think it'd be pretty awesome and very doable. I wouldn't mind a frosted clear panel to go over the side to show off the inside.

[lunarworks]

Get a blue neon light going in there.

I imagine it would look amazing through the front grille.

[Adobe75]

I work in the Tech Store at UW-Madison (wisconsin), and we just got a shipment of five 1.6GHz machines... one of them being set up for a demo starting tomorrow!!
I am in Boise for the summer with my parents, so no pictures, but fly back on Saturday!!
I get to play with a G5 five days a week! Take a look:

http://techstore.doit.wisc.edu/product1.asp?LoginType=Personal&ITEM_NUMBER=C35084

[themadchemist]

yeah, Northwestern University Bookstore doesn't sell computers...Oh yeah, they don't have to. Their books cost the same as computers.

[Powerbook G5]

Here too...if I took the money I spent on books these past two years of college, I'd be able to afford *at least* a 1.6 GHz G5...gotta love college life.

[Grimace]

has there ever been a daily poll of the age of MacRumors readers? I'd bet 75% are between 18-25

[Powerbook G5]

Well, I'm 20...and won't be affording a G5 for a while, but I can definitely dream...

[uberman42]

Bought an iPod in Dec 2002...Bought a 12" PB in Feb...now all this talk of G5s in stock not reserved is getting me all crazy with the thought of going to the Apple Store, breaking out the checkbook and getting a 1.6 and a 20" cinema display...I need to stop looking at this forum and run away just so I can not have such crazy thoughts of another Mac in just one year....Aiiieeeee!

[gopher]

Originally posted by adamfilip
i dont think the emac keyboard is that bad..
its basicly the same.. just not adjustable.

k so anyways.. this person who got their G5.. where are the pics the benchmarks.. common show me the G5!

Well you can still adjust it with two stacks of businesscards.

[tazznb]

Originally posted by tychay
Makes a lot of sense actually. DDR RAM in the G5 Mac is dual channel, hence the 800Mhz effective bandwidth (666Mhz in the case of the 1.6Ghz G5). This means that the separate memory controllers pull from separate banks. This way they don't need different wiring between models and makes it intuitive to the user how to place down their RAM in separate banks when they buy RAM in pairs.

terry

The bandwith (of a 1.8ghz) should be 900Mhz unless it is slowed by the speed of the ram.

I hope to get my Dual G5 early; I'm an educator, and have already ordered my dualie. I believe in about a year this school will have a modest amount of switchers, or plain miserable pc users that will endure pain just to not swallow their pride.

Fine by me.

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by Adobe75
I work in the Tech Store at UW-Madison (wisconsin), and we just got a shipment of five 1.6GHz machines... one of them being set up for a demo starting tomorrow!!
I am in Boise for the summer with my parents, so no pictures, but fly back on Saturday!!
I get to play with a G5 five days a week! Take a look:

http://techstore.doit.wisc.edu/product1.asp?LoginType=Personal&ITEM_NUMBER=C35084

you guys have em for $1800? is that for UW Madison students only?

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by tychay
Too late, if you ever bothered to look at the Apple Quicktime VR (http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/pmacg5_jun2003_480.html) of it, you see that that you can remove the aluminum door and leave the clear-plastic panel on (for airflow reasons).

I imagine a lot of people will be leaving their Mac like that in the coming months. :-)

Take care,
terry

Does the machine still meet radio suppression requirements with the aluminum door off, though.

[two_tail]

Originally posted by tazznb
The bandwith (of a 1.8ghz) should be 900Mhz unless it is slowed by the speed of the ram.

Actually, the speeds depend on the computer model and the part of the system at which you are looking. Time for the techie part!

The G5 has four (or five) main chips. The two obvious chips are the CPU (one or two) and the Apple-designed IBM-produced controller chip (U3). For each chip, there are two one-way links between the U3 and the processor. Each of the two U3-processor links flow in only one direction (either to or from the processor), and carries 32-bits at a time at half the processor speed (i.e. 800 MHz on 1.6GHz system).

The U3 also connects directly to RAM. The connection runs at either 333 MHz (for the 1.6GHz model) or 400 MHz (for the 1.8GHz and dual-2GHz models), carrying 64 bits at a time. Also, the bus runs at double the data rate, requiring DDR SDRAM (installed in pairs).
The U3 also connects directly to the AGP port, providing the graphics card with 2.1GBps (that's giga-BYTES per second).


The U3 then connects to a bridge chip that provides for the PCI/PCI-X slots. The bridge chip connects to U3 with a 16-bit HyperTransport connection, allowing data transfers of up to 3.2GBps (again, giga-bytes). The type of slot depends on the model purchased:

On the 1.6GHz system, all slots are 33MHz PCI slots.
On the 1.8GHz and dual-2GHz systems, one slot provides up to 133MHz PCI-X. The other two slots provide up to 100MHz PCI. The single-133 and dual-100 slots scale down to the speed of the lowest card.
[/list=a]

The bridge chip then connects to the controller chip (K2) that connects to all of the interface ports. It is connected to the bridge chip with a 8-bit 1.6GBps HyperTransport connection.
[list]
Separate 12MBps USB connections are provided to the internal modem (if purchased) and the Bluetooth card (if purchased).
Two Serial ATA buses, running at 1.5GBps (giga-bits) each, provide connections for the two internal hard drives. NOTE: Serial ATA to Parallel ATA adaptors are not supported in the G5
A direct (proprietary?) connection is made to the power controller (PMU99)
A direct (proprietary?) connection is made to the FireWire controller, which provides two 400MBps ports and one 800Mbps port.
An I2S (inter-IC sound) connection is provided for the audio circuitry. That drives the line connections (in/out), the headphone jack, and the optical connections
A direct connection is made to the built-in Ethernet port
A 33MHz PCI bus is provided for the following devices:
[list=1]
Boot ROM
AirPort Extreme card
USB controller, which provides three USB ports (480 Mbps) and the USB connection to the AGP slot.
[/list=1]


As you can see, you can have a large amount of data running around. Luckily, multiple streams of data can run around without knowing about each other. For example, the video card can be accessing memory while the processor is interacting with the PCI slot, and neither data stream will have to interact as they move through the U3 controller chip.

For more information, see the following resources:

The Power Mac G5 Developer Note (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/Developer_Notes/Macintosh_CPUs-G5/PowerMacG5/PowerMacG5.pdf).
Technical Note 86416 (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86416).
Recording of WWDC session #502, "Power Macintosh G5 Architectural Overview", available at the ADC Member site (http://connect.apple.com/). Go to "View ADC TV".

[tychay]

Originally posted by tazznb
The bandwith (of a 1.8ghz) should be 900Mhz unless it is slowed by the speed of the ram.

Umm, no. The bandwidth you are talking about is the bandwidth between the CPU and the Apple system controller ("Northbridge" in PC terms). The bandwidth I was talking about is between the Apple system controller and the memory. They do not have to be the same. (Believe me, a lot of PC users confuse this, just because they have the latest P4 with an 800 MHz FSB doesn't mean their memory is going at 800Mhz!)

In fact, DDR memory right now doesn't go faster than 200Mhz (PC3200). This is a small correction to the previous post. The actual computation is that the RAM is 200Mhz but you are sending data on the rise and fall of every clock (DDR) and you are sending through two sticks independently (dual channel): 200Mhz * 2 * 2 * 64bits/8(bits/byte) = 6.4GB/s, or an effective bandwidth of 800Mhz, or "an entire DVD in a second" as Jobs put it*.

The 1.6Ghz G5 uses PC2700 put down in pairs (dual channel) so it's RAM has an effective bandwidth of 666Mhz. I was pointing that the gap between the pairs of bays made sense when you remember that the RAM is dual-channel.

The previous post claimed 400Mhz and confused dual channel with double-data rate--but his math is correct so it's all good.

As he notes, since HyperTransport is a point-to-point bus, there is no contention. So even if the RAM is "not fast enough" for your FSB, doesn't mean that the CPU couldn't instead be querying the PCI and the AGP card using the RAM or whatever. (Or one processor can be using the hard drive buffer while the other grabs from the RAM in your 2x2Ghz G5). There are no bottlenecks in this, so comparisons with the G4 bandwidth limitations are not apt.

Take care,

terry

* This is interesting to think about though incorrect. There are various latencies in RAM addressing and access which would prevent this.

[Adobe75]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
you guys have em for $1800? is that for UW Madison students only?
All our prices are the same as on apple's education site (recently reduced), but only UW faculty/students can purchase from the store.

[AngryAngel]

Originally posted by Edot
I believe the iMac motherboards are blue.

The MDD definately have blue motherboards.

[trianglejuice]

Originally posted by KREX725
It looks so clean! It reminds me of the inside of the Death Star.

I'm in love!:cool:

Now, let us not compare evil things with good ones...

[arn]

Originally posted by carletonmusic
has there ever been a daily poll of the age of MacRumors readers? I'd bet 75% are between 18-25

Average age is about 30.

Largest demographic is 25-34 (36%), followed closely by 18-24 (33%).

arn

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by two_tail
The U3 also connects directly to RAM. The connection runs at either 333 MHz (for the 1.6GHz model) or 400 MHz (for the 1.8GHz and dual-2GHz models), carrying 64 bits at a time. Also, the bus runs at double the data rate, requiring DDR SDRAM (installed in pairs).

Slight confusion here I think. Each DDR400 RAM module is clocked at 200 MHz. Data is accessed on both the up and down of the clock, hence "DDR"; which means the speed of each RAM module is actually 400 MHz at 64 bits per cycle. Additionally, RAM modules are paired and each pair is accessed simultaneously--so two 64-bit chunks are read at each 400 MHz cycle. That means 128 bits every 1/400 sec. This is equivalent to 64 bits every 1/800 sec, which is why it is called "800 MHz effective bandwidth".

[frinky23]

Originally posted by SeaFox
Does the machine still meet radio suppression requirements with the aluminum door off, though.

Highly unlikely, and the interference caused might annoy some people. The 1.6GHz model will definitely cause interference in the TV band as well as space-to-Earth communications and the 1.8GHz model would cause interference in cellular and possibly amateur radio bands. And that's just the processor and the bus, who knows what frequencies other things inside the case are operating on.

[two_tail]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Slight confusion here I think. Each DDR400 RAM module is clocked at 200 MHz. Data is accessed on both the up and down of the clock, hence "DDR"; which means the speed of each RAM module is actually 400 MHz at 64 bits per cycle. Additionally, RAM modules are paired and each pair is accessed simultaneously--so two 64-bit chunks are read at each 400 MHz cycle. That means 128 bits every 1/400 sec. This is equivalent to 64 bits every 1/800 sec, which is why it is called "800 MHz effective bandwidth".

That's correct, and I apologize for the earlier confusion. There are many places where I glossed over things, just to make it easier to convey. For example, Apples controller chip (the U3) connects to the processor using HyperTransport, but before it reaches the processor it is converted from a HyperTransport connection to something the processor can handle.

I could see a month-long set of classes coming from all of this! Learn the inner workings of the G5 in one month! (After spending 4 years learning the prerequisite Electrical Engineering, Physics, etc.)

[dantec]

When I look at the stanford bookstore website, I can't really find ouy clearly if it's only for academic and students to buy. The websites states that there are 'great' deals for Stanford students and educators, but it doesn't exactly say that the computer store is open to the public.

Any thoughts ideas ?

[grouse]

It would be really interesting if our stanford correspondents could keep us uptodate with how quickly the boxes are shifting, to give us a good indication of whether these models, after the initial pre-ordered frenzy, are going to fly!

Ta

[WM.]

Originally posted by two_tail
For example, Apples controller chip (the U3) connects to the processor using HyperTransport, but before it reaches the processor it is converted from a HyperTransport connection to something the processor can handle.
No, it doesn't.

Apparently Apple refers to the bus as the Apple Processor Interconnect; IBM has its own over-branded name for the same thing (I forget exactly what it is, though). In any case I guess it is kind of similar to HyperTransport, with two unidirectional 32-bit buses, but I'm not sure if HT transmits address information like the API does. Maybe someone who knows more about HyperTransport and the API can educate us here.

HTH
WM

[two_tail]

Originally posted by WM.
No, it doesn't.

Apparently Apple refers to the bus as the Apple Processor Interconnect; IBM has its own over-branded name for the same thing (I forget exactly what it is, though). In any case I guess it is kind of similar to HyperTransport, with two unidirectional 32-bit buses, but I'm not sure if HT transmits address information like the API does. Maybe someone who knows more about HyperTransport and the API can educate us here.


Let me quote my source for this: "IBM Joins HyperTransport Consortium". Mac Rumors. 11 August 2003. Ed. arn. 21 August 2003 <http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030811144341.shtml>.

Apple is a member and uses [HyperTransport] in their new PowerMac G5. Although IBM's PowerPC 970 (G5) does not presently support HyperTransport directly, Apple uses a bridge chip to provide compatibility at this time.

That's where I got my information. However, the article was a bit inaccurate, since the "bridge chip" to which they are referring is actually the controller chip. Oh, well!

[Squall15]

Well, I just ordered a dual G5. I was going to wait till Panther shipped but I got some pretty interesting info from the salesman. He said "legaly" he can only tell me that my order will be shipped in 4-8 weeks, but he expects that I will recieve it much much sooner. Also I asked him about a free upgrade to Panther and he said that "legaly" he can't say anything but Apple always takes care of there customers. So I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[KREX725]

Originally posted by trianglejuice
Now, let us not compare evil things with good ones...

Okay, howabout the it reminds me of the innerds of the Enterprise? All I'm getting at is that I want to live in a house that looks like that!

I'm such a dork!

:eek:

[WM.]

Originally posted by two_tail
Let me quote my source for this: "IBM Joins HyperTransport Consortium". Mac Rumors. 11 August 2003. Ed. arn. 21 August 2003 <http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030811144341.shtml>.

[the 970 doesn't directly support HT at this time; Apple uses HT in the PMG5 and uses a bridge chip to provide compatibility with the 970]

That's where I got my information. However, the article was a bit inaccurate, since the "bridge chip" to which they are referring is actually the controller chip.
That's all true. To clarify: I was simply pointing out that your assertion that "Apple's controller chip (the U3) connects to the processor using HyperTransport, but before it reaches the processor it is converted from a HyperTransport connection to something the processor can handle" is inaccurate.

HTH
WM

[chetwilliams]

Originally posted by WM.
No, it doesn't.

Apparently Apple refers to the bus as the Apple Processor Interconnect; I

Exactly right. It is known as ApplePI. Be careful though. It'll burn your mouth (even at 2 for 99 cents).

[ImAlwaysRight]

Originally posted by Squall15
Well, I just ordered a dual G5. I was going to wait till Panther shipped but I got some pretty interesting info from the salesman. He said "legaly" he can only tell me that my order will be shipped in 4-8 weeks, but he expects that I will recieve it much much sooner. Also I asked him about a free upgrade to Panther and he said that "legaly" he can't say anything but Apple always takes care of there customers. So I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Apple just lowered the wait time on their website from 7-10 weeks for a dual 2.0 to 5-7 weeks, which, me thinks, is good.

Also, I called Apple about my dual 2.0 order placed July 24 and asked for a more firm shipping date and was told mid-Sept. to early Oct, and my order says shipping "on or before Oct. 3."

As for Panther, consider this for G5 ship dates: I am not aware of anyone who has received a ship date from between Sept. 9 to about Sept. 29 or so. I wonder if that is due to a slight delay in shipping to include Panther with the G5's. My hope is that Panther will be released mid-Sept. as some rumors have said and that it will then be included on G5's shipping after Sept. 16 or so (which, hopefully, will be mine.) I would think if Panther ships by mid-Oct. that Apple will allow any G5 customer to go the "up-to-date" route for $20 + tax.

[MacPhyle]

Who hears loves Star Trek? I DO!

nothing is better then talking Macs and Trek

well unless you wanna talk Mac's , Trek and Subarus

but Subarus arent that popular (unfortunately) [/B]

Macs, Trek, cats & dogs are my favorite subjects... as far as Subarus, I don't do motorized vehicles--I get around town on my bike just fine. ;)

[aikomhoch]

Originally posted by ImAlwaysRight
My hope is that Panther will be released mid-Sept. as some rumors have said and that it will then be included on G5's shipping after Sept. 16 or so (which, hopefully, will be mine.) I would think if Panther ships by mid-Oct. that Apple will allow any G5 customer to go the "up-to-date" route for $20 + tax.

Unfortunately, two Apple employees, one applecare rep and one apple store salesman, both told me this week that Panther is delayed until November. I hope they're wrong, but they told me on the same day.

[strangelogic]

Heard some speculation on apple discussions that the 1 month delay of the G5 to Japan - is probably a localized problem for Japan - but I have my doubts.

Anyone have any 'inside' information as to what the delays are? The brief article specifically stated that production of all three models is 'behind schedule'.

Not good news especially in conjunction with the 'lack of evidence' that these things are shipping at more than a trickle.

Ship date still at 8/29...
Apple Store - Clarendon today said they should have one 'soon' ... nudge nudge - wink wink say no more...

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by webplummer
Funny. It appears they kept the motherboards blue. Right? Is that shot of the 1.6 inside a production model? It was my understanding that blue motherboards were part of R&D color-code for a beta. They would go to green for production.

But if they kept them blue. Bitchin.

Yep.
Someone thought that keeping the motherboards blue would be cool, and differentiates it from the PCs which are green.

What they did not think about is that blue is ever-so-slightly more expensive than green, because green is what everyone has, and blue, they only keep enough of for prototype units.

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by Zwiggles Well it just happens that I'm sitting on two $200,000 laser cutters that cut and polish Plexi Glass. If anyone would want a window, first let me know if there are screw holes for the window to attach to the case with and secondly, let me know the locations and dimentions of the screw holes and case it self. If you want a funky color or some custom ingraving with your logo or what ever, I can do that too.


Well, a clear side panel is pretty boring after a few minutes. Its not like there is anything to see there. Fans spin, thats about it.

Now, if you sell infra-red goggles that would be cool. See the 'blue' cool air come in, the 'red' processor heatsinks and the 'pinkish' warm air coming out.

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by WM.
Apparently Apple refers to the bus as the Apple Processor Interconnect;

Hmm...

Apple PI (Apple Pie)...

neato! :D

[loki]

i reordered my dual g5 last week (i forgot bluetooth so lost my place in line)
I was told they would receive there stock in mid sept. and then would take 3 weeks to get to me. it was a built to order. so anyway it looks like the 1st week in oct for my shipment.