Archos 605 over touch, for me at least. Here's why.

[ivan a rom]

This 2 day research project ended up with me choosing to get an Archos 605 over the touch.

-Price. 30 Gig @ 240 versus 8 Gig @ 300
Myspace is running a promotion with Archos, 20% off of the price.(This was a major deciding factor)

-Flash over wifi. I love youtube, but also some other streaming sites too.(movies etc. ;))

-SIZE The 605 is NOT that big. (http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/5312-Nokia-n800-vs-archos-605-vs-iPod-Touch-vs-iPod-Classic-160Gb)

-In all of the videos I have seen online, the UI is not complicated as many say it is.

-With size comes resolution, and it is a VERY nice screen.

-DVR capability. Adding shows like Conan overnight can help me get some sleep. There is also no moving the show from cable > PC > PMP. Less work for me. And no, I have no Tivo. And yes, I have factored in plug-in/accessory costs. Plus these shows are FREE! :cough:NBC ones included :cough:

The cons of not having a touch are not really an issue with me.

-I don't really use iTunes, and would NEVER use the wifi music store.

-Battery life is a non issue as I'd use the 605 by an outlet somewhere or
another 80% of the time.

-I like both UIs, but Archos' isn't much worse than the touch's.

All in all I was REALLY close to pulling the trigger on the touch. But the Archos is a better suit for me. I still think the touch has it's own niche, and it's good looks almost make me wish i was part of that niche...almost. Hopefully someone can bring me back to the light side. :apple:

[onionperson654]

I went though much the same thing a few weeks ago when I though that if the ipod didn't include Wi-Fi and safari I wouldn't be getting it (although I considered a hacked iphone). While I still think that the Archos 605 is a pretty amazing device (really, some people on these boards give it a lot of hits, but its really the only other device in the ipod touch's category), I've decided on the ipod touch, and I'll just respond to some of your points below with my own thinking (which is in agreement on a fair number of them).

This 2 day research project ended up with me choosing to get an Archos 605 over the touch.

-Price. 30 Gig @ 240 versus 8 Gig @ 300
Myspace is running a promotion with Archos, 20% off of the price.(This was a major deciding factor)

That's a great deal to get $60 off, although once you factor in at least $50 for the necessary internet and video codeces the prices are comparable.

For the 30g, it sure is an advantage, although you noted that you will be around a place to charge/synch your device fairly often, so 8gb might be enough.


-Flash over wifi. I love youtube, but also some other streaming sites too.(movies etc. ;))

Yeah, Apple dropped the ball here, and It's hard to see why they haven't picked it up again (deal with youtube?). That said, hopefully they will remedy this problem, or hackers will, although the Archos has this (and other codeces) point over the ipod.

Plus, there will be so many more ipod touch users that programs written for it will far outstrip Archos.

-SIZE The 605 is NOT that big. (http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/5312-Nokia-n800-vs-archos-605-vs-iPod-Touch-vs-iPod-Classic-160Gb)

I've had to convince others that the Archos 605 IS indeed pocketable, but it also is significantly larger. Plus, the buttons may make it cumbersome in a pocket, and a good case could put it over the edge. The ipod Touch, or better or worse, is amazingly tiny, almost as thin as the new nano.

It's too bad that Archos didn't use a smaller hard drive, and make the device the size of the screen and not have the extra edge and somewhat pointless buttons.

-In all of the videos I have seen online, the UI is not complicated as many say it is.

While its probably ok, word of mouth from owners can often hint at what videos loose. On this point, the Archos 605 looses hands down to the ipod touch, which has an amazing interface that makes using it a pleasure, not a chore.

-With size comes resolution, and it is a VERY nice screen.

Absolutely. If you were only/mostly going to use it for videos (one could also make a case for the larger 705) the screen resolution (800x480, maximum video 720x480, i.e. DVD quality) this could put it over the edge. Some say the iphones screen (hopefully the fixed ipod touches) is better on contrast and can look sharper, although I think this is a minority.


-DVR capability. Adding shows like Conan overnight can help me get some sleep. There is also no moving the show from cable > PC > PMP. Less work for me. And no, I have no Tivo. And yes, I have factored in plug-in/accessory costs. Plus these shows are FREE! :cough:NBC ones included :cough:

DVR capability is sweet, ESPECIALLY if you don't have a DVR with your system (in fact, its not a bad price for that alone). However, you're looking at the added cost of $100, so suddenly you've spent $400 total (still a deal if you need a DVR). That's why they're selling the base unit so cheap.

The cons of not having a touch are not really an issue with me.

-I don't really use iTunes, and would NEVER use the wifi music store.

-Battery life is a non issue as I'd use the 605 by an outlet somewhere or
another 80% of the time.

-I like both UIs, but Archos' isn't much worse than the touch's.

All in all I was REALLY close to pulling the trigger on the touch. But the Archos is a better suit for me. I still think the touch has it's own niche, and it's good looks almost make me wish i was part of that niche...almost. Hopefully someone can bring me back to the light side. :apple:

You've made a lot of good points, and the Archos 605 may well be the one for you. I've just got one final suggestion. If you can...

BUY BOTH. ok, not permenantly, but if you get the ipod touch at Costco or Best Buy you've got a least a month to bring it back, and there is no comparison like trying two things out side by side. Almost no one has done this (reviewers aside), so it could be immensly useful. If you can spare the $299 for a month, you'll not be losing anything else, except for maybe a restocking fee if you return the Archos 605, at which point the comparison would be useful.

As for me, while the Archos 605 is a great product, the tiny size and incredible user interface of the ipod touch win the day. After fiddiling with a mediocre (at best) interface with my Palm Pilot, I want a device that will feel wonderful to use and I can always have with me.

Best of luck with whatever you end up buying.

[colto]

I also had a big dilemma over the archos and the itouch. But I think battery could be a problem for you. If you are going to be attached to a wall outlet a lot of the time, then you have to carry the AC adapter. That makes it take up too much space to really be portable. It's such a hassle to get out cords, plug them in, hope they are long enough, unplug them, roll them up, pack them again...ugh. I would just buy a laptop if I had to deal with that. Then you get better screen resolution, flash/shockwave/directX/opengl support, bigger hard drive, better screen, better input device, better wifi, etc. I have a feeling a flash update or hack will come along anyway. Whenever the iPod Touch gets hacked, it's size, UI, and applications will blow the 605 out of the water. Plus the iTouch just looks so much sexier :p

[madmaxmedia]

I was actually just about to order via the Myspace discount, but ended up deciding to order an 8GB Touch from Target for a nice discount too (10% off, 4.4% Fatwallet cashback, free shipping to boot.)

The 605 is pocketable, but as onionperson said probably cumbersome (I wear jeans almost every day.) The 605 is actually a great improvement in size over other similar devices, but still not really close to the Touch.

The Touch is really a joy to use, from Coverflow to Safari to general interface. The Archos seems very functional, but not much more. The wifi battery life is reportedly very poor (1 hour?), which makes it even more amazing that the Safari-enabled, superthin iPod Touch lasts 4 hours or so on wifi.

I've also heard varying reports about the Archos screen. Some who have compared the iPhone to the Archos actually prefer the iPhone despite the difference in size and resolution. It's ironic I bring this up given the Touch's screen issues, but I do believe the screen issue will be resolved, and the Touch will ultimately have similar image quality as the Touch.

So there are pro's and cons either way. Storage is a big pro of the Archos, but I don't find myself needing to load that many movies and music at a time, since I am at my computer during work and can transfer stuff anytime I want. But someone with different day-to-day situation might find even the 30GB Archos too small in capacity.

EDIT- Enjoy your Archos and post your impressions! :)

[bousozoku]

...
As for me, while the Archos 605 is a great product, the tiny size and incredible user interface of the ipod touch win the day. After fiddiling with a mediocre (at best) interface with my Palm Pilot, I want a device that will feel wonderful to use and I can always have with me.
...

I was thinking the same things. The iPod touch could be bigger and have more storage and the Archos 605 could be smaller and easier to pocket but the iPod touch is just so simple to use and the other one isn't intuitive but it works.

I haven't bought anything but I had a birthday yesterday and now, I have the finances to make a choice. Maybe, I'll just buy potato chips instead.

[onionperson654]

I haven't bought anything but I had a birthday yesterday and now, I have the finances to make a choice. Maybe, I'll just buy potato chips instead.

Amazon.com: Lay Potato Chips Regular, 1.5 ounce bag (pack of 60) (http://www.amazon.com/Lays-Potato-Chips-Regular-1-5-Ounce/dp/B000HIFA8W/ref=pd_bbs_sr_5/002-6905149-6329629?ie=UTF8&s=grocery&qid=1190270177&sr=8-5) - $22.76

That's 1050 packs of chips, or one per day for 3 years.

Tasty! (although an ipod and a gym membership might be better for one's health)

[dukebound85]

well i like my touch. the archos looks nice as well but didnt consider it (since i didnt really know about it). however, i was considering a psp all tricked out instead of the touch but the whole package of the touch is just well cool. im glad i got it simply put.

[Evangelion]

-SIZE The 605 is NOT that big. (http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/5312-Nokia-n800-vs-archos-605-vs-iPod-Touch-vs-iPod-Classic-160Gb)

It's wider, taller, thicker and about twice as heavy as the touch is. Yes, I would say that the size is an issue.

-Battery life is a non issue as I'd use the 605 by an outlet somewhere or another 80% of the time.

Do you carry the charger with you wherever you go?

All in all I was REALLY close to pulling the trigger on the touch. But the Archos is a better suit for me.

That's the way to do it: find out what you want, and buy the product that best fits your needs.

But, as I already commented on Ars Technica, I really don't get the design of the Archos. Well, I don't get the design of just about all the other players out there. Looking at the Archos, I can see these things:

- Pointless product-names ("Arhos 605 WiFi audio video player. 05 series") staring the user with in the eyes. Yes, thank you for constantly reminding me what product I purchased. Just in case I forget.

- 6 dual-action buttons with symbols. How come Apple manages just fine with so few buttons?

- Is that grill in the bottom a speaker? Is there really any point in a speaker like that?

- Oh look, three LEDs in the left side of the device, telling me something that I don't really need to know. But LEDs are cool, right?

[gloss]

The Archos is very cool, and I may well have gotten one if I hadn't been so enamored with the aesthetics of the iPt. Good luck with yours, and let us know how it works out for you. Pics would be nice so we can really get a feel for the size. Also, let us know how responsive the UI is.

[jlbrown23]

-SIZE The 605 is NOT that big. (http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/5312-Nokia-n800-vs-archos-605-vs-iPod-Touch-vs-iPod-Classic-160Gb)


Do the math(actually multiply H, W, D) on that - the 605 is THREE TIMES THE VOLUME of the Touch. I would say that is a LOT bigger, especialy for something you carry around in your pocket. And if you think that the interface is the most important part of a device(I do, but this is less important to some), then the choice is easy.

But you do have a good point with the Flash and the capacity. For the capacity that will change as flash memory gets cheaper, but it doesn't yet. For Flash and other browser functionality, I hope that Apple or some hacker will help out, but for now the Touch doesn't have it(or ra & wm streaming either). But the Safari browser is amazing on the touch - very usuable.

I'd recommend getting your hands on both in person to make the best choice - the interface for the Touch just blew me away, and that's hard to quantify unless you actually see it and feel it yourself.

[ivan a rom]

I hadn't heard about 1 hour of battery life on wifi. I'll need to look into that.

Thing is, the 605 is mainly for uni, so the charger will be with me in a backpack. So if I'm looking at 3.5-4 hours of wifi I'll go for it. Anything less will make me reconsider.

[powderblue17]

You gotta admit though that the archos is about the geekiest looking device since Microsoft's UMPC and all the other PMP's. I'm an admitted computer geek as a Network Admin and even I wouldn't be caught dead with something like that in public. It's just one of those inbetween devices which I think turns most people off including myself. I know a lot of people on here cry about the Touch not having a hard drive but if they were to include a hard drive it would get bigger and start to become one of those inbetween devices which doesn't appeal to most people. The iPod classic doesn't count because it stays in pocket most of the time while this and the Touch are meant to be looked at to be used. Lets be honest the very fact we are reading MacRumors pretty much means we are geeks and while one of these inbetween devices might appeal to some of us I don't think it does to the mass consumer. Let's just look at the ugly history of Microsoft' UMPS and all the other PMP's to see that.

[clevin]

I see only advantage of touch is the looks. Which,indeed, is very significant. Touch has poor functionality, indeed.

[Evangelion]

I see only advantage of touch is the looks.

it's also smaller and lighter.

Touch has poor functionality, indeed.

how so?

[clevin]

it's also smaller and lighter.
how so?

functionality? Go check archos' production page. Obviously it can do much more than touch can.

I think "smaller" is among "looks"?

And yes, touch is 4.2 once, arches is 5.3

[madmaxmedia]

functionality? Go check archos' production page. Obviously it can do much more than touch can.

I think "smaller" is among "looks"?

And yes, touch is 4.2 once, arches is 5.3

I'm only splitting hairs for sake of discussion. But size is a bit different than just looks, as it affects utility of the device for many. I know I will always have the Touch in my pocket, with something like the 605 I'm not so sure (I was very close to ordering the Archos.)

The UI of the Touch is prettier as well, but also easier to use (not that the Archos UI isn't functional, I'm sure it is.) I've read in reviews that the Archos comes with a stylus (but no stylus holder in the unit), and some of the on-screen controls can be a little small (but in general can be used without the stylus.) The Touch UI not only looks pretty, but was wonderfully designed IMO.

Out of the box, the Archos is lacking in some functionalities that I'd have to pay for (AAC, H.264, web browser), adding the the total price. It does have some features that I do very much like though, such as much better movie format support.

The battery life is worse than the Touch, which makes me wonder how a HD-based Touch would do in that department (considering how much larger the 605 is, and still has worse battery life.)

[onionperson654]

This review just came out:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/20/AR2007092001290.html


To provide a more balanced perspective, a Cnet review (slightly higher score than ipod touch (8.7 vs 8.3)):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/20/AR2007092001290.html

[gloss]

So it sounds like it's basically the device it seems to be - the technophile's dream, albeit lacking in the finish department. Surprise.

[gkarris]

So it sounds like it's basically the device it seems to be - the technophile's dream, albeit lacking in the finish department. Surprise.

Yep. Depends on what you want. Do you want:

A portable media device?

or

An iPod?

[gloss]

Yep. Depends on what you want. Do you want:

A portable media device?

or

An iPod?

That's a bit harsh. I'm perfectly happy transcoding my video library in the first place, as I want to resize all the files down to native resolution for the device anyway - tossing them over to h.264 at the same time is no skin off my back. Plus the Archos can't touch the Touch's portability and ease of use.

The Archos has more raw capability (if you're willing to pay) but trades off elegance, battery life, and pocketability.

[Evangelion]

functionality? Go check archos' production page. Obviously it can do much more than touch can.

the argument was that ipod has limited features, not "archos has lots of features". archos might have more features than the touch does, but that does not mean that touch is crap in this area.

I think "smaller" is among "looks"?

nope. or are you saying that small is automatically good looking? when talking about portable gear, size and weight are a separate (and VERY important) characteristic of the device. a device can be small but ugly (some of those small playes from creative come to mind), and some other can be big but good looking.

And yes, touch is 4.2 once, arches is 5.3

the weight of archos goes up all the way to 290g (iirc), while touch is 120g..

[ivan a rom]

The weight wouldn't really be a huge issue, I'm going with 30 Gig, it's lighter than the 160. I'm hoping to get it in about a week, and I'll definitely post impressions.

On another note, I have NEVER had an iPod, so all of my music is mp3 and ALL of my movies are mp4. Plus I plan on recording some movies at night. I dunno, some people are pretty hostile towards the 605. I have played with the touch for a while, and I will say that it's thinness is nice, but 15mm isn't very thick at all.

My phone's bottom half is only 13.5mm, and thats 1.5mm thinner than the player. (http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=950)

I will go to the Apple store again, to trade in my gf's 3g nano for a red one or a touch, so I will be playing with it again.

[onionperson654]

The weight wouldn't really be a huge issue, I'm going with 30 Gig, it's lighter than the 160. I'm hoping to get it in about a week, and I'll definitely post impressions.

On another note, I have NEVER had an iPod, so all of my music is mp3 and ALL of my movies are mp4. Plus I plan on recording some movies at night. I dunno, some people are pretty hostile towards the 605. I have played with the touch for a while, and I will say that it's thinness is nice, but 15mm isn't very thick at all.

My phone's bottom half is only 13.5mm, and thats 1.5mm thinner than the player. (http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=950)

I will go to the Apple store again, to trade in my gf's 3g nano for a red one or a touch, so I will be playing with it again.

Great to hear! Best of luck.

I think that its worth mentioning at this point that the comparison comes because the ipod touch and Archos 605 are really in a category of their own, both being great products that far outstrip anything that could call itself competition.

[ivan a rom]

Great to hear! Best of luck.

I think that its worth mentioning at this point that the comparison comes because the ipod touch and Archos 605 are really in a category of their own, both being great products that far outstrip anything that could call itself competition.

I'm buying you an e-beer

[clevin]

the argument was that ipod has limited features, not "archos has lots of features". archos might have more features than the touch does, but that does not mean that touch is crap in this area.


it is, why not? it only plays certain codec of videos, plus music and browser, what do you call that? good functionality? compare to what?

[Mobile923]

I bought BOTH of these players and test drove them...

I first bought the Archos 605 30GB (as opposed to the 160GB, only for the size factor)

At first it was dope, compared to my previous Creative Zen Vision W 60GB (thing was a beast)... Touch screen, nice big display, and in a sense, pocketable. ...way more than the Zen. Here's my brief love and hate review of the 605:

INTERFACE
-barely used the buttons. felt a little flimsy.
-GUI was a little confusing at first, but i quickly got used to it. the girlfriend didnt even bother.
-it's way too easy to confuse 'closing music player' and 'going back to the main menu'.
-touch screen is finger friendly, but for some buttons, the stylus is necessary.
-drag and drop, nothing beats it

MEDIA
-mp3s can be browsed in two manners: tags and folders
-'prev' and 'next' buttons have song titles beside them, nice touch.
-output not as hot as the Zen. bummer when trying to bump in the car.
-videos: a majority of the codecs worked. (divx, wmv, etc)
-animated video thumbnails = awesome. you can even customize which part of the video for the thumbnail.
-pictures were beautiful on that resolution.

WEB
-shelled out $30 for the browser plugin. note: that plugin was a 1 kb download. ripoff.
-connecting to wi-fi was a bit of a challenge (mini gripe: i have a LONG wep key at home... it wouldnt take the very last digit. so had to go to wi-fi cafe to test it)
-browsing was very impressive
-built-in flash worked well
-cant browse and listen to music
-battery pounded to half-charge after 30 mins of browsing
-One zoom, and it's about a 25% zoom.
-PDF viewer is a plus. It had the manual built in.

DESIGN
-pocketable, but with the case, forget it. feels like the zen again.
-side buttons and headphone jack are at opposite sides of the player. bad pocket design for me.
-must use button lock. screen and buttons way too sensitive in a pocket.
-button/screen lock: you set it, then the screen would power off, when you try to touch the screen or press a button, the screen would power back on, then you touch it a second time, then it displays the message to tell you it was locked. screen turns back off after 10 seconds. imagine this while in your pocket... this feature was basically a battery killer.
-frequent in-and-out-of pocket was way too annoying for it's size. immediate wear-and-tear would be unavoidable. (buttons felt like they'd snap off if caught on a thread)
-charging it was like watching grass grow.


SO... I bought the iPod touch shortly after, and swallowed the fact that it was only 16GBs, that i'd have to sit through video conversions... and that it was an iPod. After 2 hours with the iPt, the archos was factory reset and boxed for immediate return.

Here's what I felt about the archos compared to iPt:
-605 was nice at first, but then I felt like i was going to break the thing. I had to 'learn' the interface, as well as 'teach' it to others, and i just wasnt comfortable with having a player that required TLC... my iPt i treat like a best friend, while the archos was like a little baby...

605 wifi was $275 and iPt was $400... well worth the extra money for me to get something reliable, would receive good support and little worries.

So there, that's one person's opinion for you.

Happy purchasing...

[Evangelion]

it is, why not? it only plays certain codec of videos, plus music and browser, what do you call that? good functionality? compare to what?

Um, compared to the other iPods for example? Or other mediaplayers from their competitors (sandisk, Creative etc.)? Yes, Archos has it beat here, but Archos has other shortcomings.

I really fail to see the issue with the codecs. So it doesn't play back those illegal downloads from P2P, big deal. What it does play back just fine is my Handbrake-ripped DVD-collection.

In short: it touch might not play back as many codecs as the Archos does, but it plays back those that matter.

[onionperson654]

I bought BOTH of these players and test drove them...
[...]
SO... I bought the iPod touch shortly after, and swallowed the fact that it was only 16GBs, that i'd have to sit through video conversions... and that it was an iPod. After 2 hours with the iPt, the archos was factory reset and boxed for immediate return.
[...]
So there, that's one person's opinion for you.

Happy purchasing...

Well, that's a pretty strong opinion (I like that instead of going through all the ipods points, he just demonstrated his overall reaction, and well).

To be fair, here's a link to a forum more biased on the other side (read its title) http://forum.archosfans.com/


Completely by accident (ok, I was looking to see what Target had in ipods while I was in there for other reasons (they have the touch label out, but also for the classic which they don't have in, so they're behind the times)) I saw a clearance Archos 604, which was a suprise because I never imagined seeing one in a store (plus the shock of seeing something you've researched extensively for the first time).

It was certainly not too big, but quite sizable. THEN, I looked at it from the top and wow, it was FAT. Now, the 605 is smaller, but only .6 inches compared to .7. The ipod touch really seems small at .3, so an extra .1 inch could be a lot more than it looks like, but still, volume wise, the 605 is way bigger.

Archos has some things down (decent pricing except for plugins, codec support, screen resolution), but needs to put in a smaller hard drive and shrink the device (to the size of the present screen and maybe .5 inches thick) to be competative to the ipod. Sure, no one quite expects multitouch technology (although the openness and drag-and-drop will certainly make its os appeal more to some than itunes and certainly has some advantages), but size is going to be what makes the 605 just not sell as much.

Make it larger than the iphone but smaller than the current model and fix the WI-FI battery (while it gets decent video battery, apparently WI-FI sucks, so keep that in mind for downloading videos and such) and you've got my eye again Archos, but for now, I just hope you catch all of the business that (for whatever reason) looks away from Apple.

[clevin]

Um, compared to the other iPods for example? Or other mediaplayers from their competitors (sandisk, Creative etc.)? Yes, Archos has it beat here, but Archos has other shortcomings.

I really fail to see the issue with the codecs. So it doesn't play back those illegal downloads from P2P, big deal. What it does play back just fine is my Handbrake-ripped DVD-collection.

In short: it touch might not play back as many codecs as the Archos does, but it plays back those that matter.

thats such a biased view, nowadays you goto any pirate website, see if H.264 is that innocent.

compare to iPod? great, now read this forum and see how many people really use it as a pure iPod.

[Evangelion]

thats such a biased view, nowadays you goto any pirate website, see if H.264 is that innocent.

Since I don't visit those website, I'll have to take your word for it. And did I claim that it is? I haven't really seen that much need for DivX outside of illegal downloads. I do have (and will have) bunch of other video that I would be watching on the touch and guess what? touch would play back that content just fine. Lack of DivX is such a non-issue that it's not even funny.

And even if H.264 was used in P2P-networks, so what? They I could say that the touch would play back the legal content AND the illegal content from P2P. Then the whole argument of codec-support becomes more or less academic, since the missing codecs would not bring anything extra to the table.

But seriously: so frigging what if touch does not play back DivX? Why would I want that? my DVD-rips are H.264, and touch handles those just fine. What other media could I be watching on the touch? YouTube? Working fine as it is.

compare to iPod? great, now read this forum and see how many people really use it as a pure iPod.

Maybe they are not using it as an "pure iPod" since it has new features that allow it to do more? So we are back at the "touch has sucky features"-argument. And since there are loads of people using touch for other things than iPodding, then it kinda shows that it does have quite a bit of features.

[gloss]

Loud Noises

[ivan a rom]

I love lamp. ...I actually screamed "LOUD NOISES" during a friends argument and it ended it with laughter.

On topic, I got my GF the 16 Gig touch today, when she gets home I'll check it out.

[PygmySurfer]

And even if H.264 was used in P2P-networks, so what? They I could say that the touch would play back the legal content AND the illegal content from P2P. Then the whole argument of codec-support becomes more or less academic, since the missing codecs would not bring anything extra to the table.


You implied DivX was used for nothing more than illegal P2P downloads, which isn't the case. Before h.264, DivX was huge for home use, especially on the PC side. I wouldn't be surprised if DivX/XviD was still bigger than h.264 in the PC world. IMHO, it was childish to imply that DivX is just this evil pirate codec. You then took a completley different stance when it was pointed out h.264 is also widely used for encoding movies for distribution via P2P.


But seriously: so frigging what if touch does not play back DivX? Why would I want that? my DVD-rips are H.264, and touch handles those just fine. What other media could I be watching on the touch? YouTube? Working fine as it is.


Just because you wouldn't want it doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. I'm not sure why there's so much animosity towards clevin for merely wanting DivX support on the iPod touch.

[bousozoku]

thats such a biased view, nowadays you goto any pirate website, see if H.264 is that innocent.
...

What's that got to do with someone's private collection? If someone has used his own DVDs to put video on his device, whether it's an iPod touch or Archos 605 or whatever, what does it matter if pirated video are showing up in H.264 form?

So, the iPod touch isn't good for pirates? They probably wouldn't consider it anyway because of the cost and storage.

If the iPod touch is what someone wants, they'll work with it and if it isn't, they'll get something else. It's like the people who keep asking for FLAC support on the iPod. It's not happening. If people want to transcode their CDs to a lossless format, they have a choice. If they don't have the CDs, who cares?

[Evangelion]

You implied DivX was used for nothing more than illegal P2P downloads, which isn't the case. Before h.264, DivX was huge for home use, especially on the PC side.

And where would I use it TODAY? When I move my DVD's to my computer, they will be in h.264. So where would I be using DivX? Where would I end up getting consumable media that was in DivX-format? P2P?

You then took a completley different stance when it was pointed out h.264 is also widely used for encoding movies for distribution via P2P.

It's not really my problem if you do not understand what we are talking about. My point was that just about only source of DivX-content is P2P. And that particular content is about 95% illegal. Is it really valid to pine for a codec that would mostly be used for illegal things? Now, the fact that it's popular in illegal activities does not mean that the codec is bad. But if it really doesn't have wide adoption outside that particular market, does it really matter? Now, the difference between DivX and h.264 is that while h.264 might be used in P2P like Divx is, it also has hozillion legal uses as well (trailers in apple.com, YouTube etc.).

This might be different for someone who has already encoded their DVD's to DivX. But they can always re-encode them. If this ISN'T about self-encoded DVD's, then only large-scale source for DivX-content that I can think of is P2P.

[mikeinmontreal]

I didn't bother reading all of the posts, so for those who are reading from here on in, here are my 2 cents:

I have the Archos 604 Wifi and it is a great machine for video playback and the web browsing experience is pretty good. Just drag and drop avi files without converting. Wish they could have incorporated flash into a firmware update for a product that is not even a year old, though.

I can stream from my Mac to my Archos, so I can have 100% free space on my Archos, and stream music and videos from my home network, much like Apple TV. But I think you can with the Touch now also with Telekinesis.

The battery is user replaceable and is only about $30. However, Archos support is not very good. It can be quite expensive to ship the unit back and forth if there are any issues, whereas you can pop into an Apple Store for service pretty much anywhere for iPods.

The iPod UI will always beat everyone else's. The 604 is a little bulky and it takes forever to charge by USB and my video playback is 2 hours at most vs 3 hour charging and 4-hour playback for the Touch. The newer 605 has additional costs for web browsing and the battery is not replaceable.

I will end up selling my 604 and picking up the Touch. But I think you cannot go wrong with either unit.

[PygmySurfer]

And where would I use it TODAY? When I move my DVD's to my computer, they will be in h.264. So where would I be using DivX? Where would I end up getting consumable media that was in DivX-format? P2P?


For anything you'd previously ripped in DivX, and didn't feel like re-ripping? From http://stage6.divx.com/? I've seen several websites on the internet where video has been encoded with DivX/XviD. Product advertisements, adult websites, there's lots of DivX out there that isn't illegal. A lot of sites are moving on (to Flash, mostly), but there's still a lot of old content out there.


It's not really my problem if you do not understand what we are talking about. My point was that just about only source of DivX-content is P2P. And that particular content is about 95% illegal. Is it really valid to pine for a codec that would mostly be used for illegal things? Now, the fact that it's popular in illegal activities does not mean that the codec is bad. But if it really doesn't have wide adoption outside that particular market, does it really matter? Now, the difference between DivX and h.264 is that while h.264 might be used in P2P like Divx is, it also has hozillion legal uses as well (trailers in apple.com, YouTube etc.).


How does your changing your stance equate to me not understanding what you're talking about? Your point is P2P is the only source of DivX content, and it's 100% wrong. h.264 can be and is being used for all the things DivX can, including pirating movies/tv shows/etc. That doesn't change the fact both have legitimate uses. By your logic, we should outlaw P2P, because it can be used to illegally download things. Maybe we should outlaw alcohol too, because people can get drunk, then go driving and run someone down. FACT: DivX has huge adoption outside of those activities. It's popularity may be waning, but that doesn't change that it was the dominant codec for several years.


This might be different for someone who has already encoded their DVD's to DivX. But they can always re-encode them. If this ISN'T about self-encoded DVD's, then only large-scale source for DivX-content that I can think of is P2P.

If someone has a bunch of DVDs already ripped to DivX, they probably don't want to re-rip them.

The fact is, someone suggested one thing they'd like to see is DivX support. By suggesting the only use for DivX/XviD is for nefarious activities, you've basically labelled him a pirate or a thief.

[ivan a rom]

The decision was made, I've ordered a 605wifi. I'll post comparisons and impressions. I have played with my GF's 16 gig touch for hours on end, so I have a good basis for comparison. I hope to have it by Friday. Wish me luck! (or not :p)

[db2431]

it is, why not? it only plays certain codec of videos, plus music and browser, what do you call that? good functionality? compare to what?

Size, ugly ui and **** wifi battery was the killer for me when comparing archos to touch.

[gloss]

The decision was made, I've ordered a 605wifi. I'll post comparisons and impressions. I have played with my GF's 16 gig touch for hours on end, so I have a good basis for comparison. I hope to have it by Friday. Wish me luck! (or not :p)

G'luck. Let us know how the comparison goes.

[RobK7]

It really depends what YOU are looking for, wanting and needing.

Several here are concerned a lot about size and ease of use.

I mostly want it to share photos and video clips, so the screen quality is my own personal picky point.

And this is interesting, because on paper the Archos has a fantastic screen, much much higher resolution than iPod touch, and MILLIONS of colors.

I haven't been able to compare screens in person, but on youtube it seems that the iPod Touch screen looks BETTER. Mainly because it's BRIGHTER.

So, the higher resolution, higher color resolution screen loses out to iPod Touch because it just isn't any brighter than the old Archos 604, which looks DULL compared to iPod Touch.

Personally, if the Arhcos screen were brighter, I'd go with it. Sharing photos and video clips with friends, they are looking at the screen and I want them to see how good the photos are. If anyone can comment on screen comparison (BRIGHTNESS), great, but YouTube seems to show it pretty clearly.

[RobK7]

...BUT...

The iPod Touch stores lower resolution photos only, so sending them to a bigger TV screen (which would be cool at various times in various other households) is a problem if you want to run a slide show. Also, obviously zooming in on photos on the Touch screen doesn't zoom into better resolution but just blows up the low resolution.

Not sure if Archos has that limitation but I don't think it does.

[madmaxmedia]

...BUT...

The iPod Touch stores lower resolution photos only, so sending them to a bigger TV screen (which would be cool at various times in various other households) is a problem if you want to run a slide show. Also, obviously zooming in on photos on the Touch screen doesn't zoom into better resolution but just blows up the low resolution.

Not sure if Archos has that limitation but I don't think it does.

I don't think the resolution of the photos would be an issue with TV out, as the TV out resolution is relatively low-res too.

I do agree with you on the photo thing though. It's not a big deal to me, but it would be nice if they were a bit higher resolution.

[Iscariot]

Nobody buys a Jag because it gets the highest fuel efficiency or has the most horsepower or because of those built-in seat warmers. They buy it because it's a Jag.

Maybe the Archos has more space, maybe it plays more codecs. But it's big, it's bulky, it's the girl at the party that has all the qualities of a great mother but nobody wants to be seen taking her home. The iPt is sleek, sexy, and it's designed with usability in mind.

[Mobile923]

Maybe the Archos has more space, maybe it plays more codecs. But it's big, it's bulky, it's the girl at the party that has all the qualities of a great mother but nobody wants to be seen taking her home. The iPt is sleek, sexy, and it's designed with usability in mind.

"...that's the smartest thing I've ever heard anyone say about anything!" (Peter Griffin)

...so true.

I returned mine, and compared to my 16GB touch, I don't regret it one bit. Archos' got all the great features, but it's truly a jack of all trades. UI is a mess, the only thing decent about it was the movie player, and it's just not pocketable. If you're thinking about a 605, please read my review on top of page two... functionality vs practicality.

[ivan a rom]

I am gonna have it in my laptop bag/ bookbag. It's pockets are padded.

On the drive to uni I'll be using it to listen to music.

I'm excited! And if it sucks for me I have no problem returning it.

Reason #2 for the nicer screen: I am getting a new digital camera (Panasonic DMC-FZ18k), so I really want to take my pics with me everywhere.

[RobK7]

Nobody buys a Jag because it gets the highest fuel efficiency or has the most horsepower or because of those built-in seat warmers. They buy it because it's a Jag.

Maybe the Archos has more space, maybe it plays more codecs. But it's big, it's bulky, it's the girl at the party that has all the qualities of a great mother but nobody wants to be seen taking her home. The iPt is sleek, sexy, and it's designed with usability in mind.

Well, Like I said, I'm looking for the best SCREEN.

What's interesting I guess is with allof Arhcos big gun specs and storage space, I think I'm gonna go with Apple's tiny 16gigs and lower resolution photos and a HOST of other draw-backs, beacause, mainly due to powerful brightness, the SCREEN LOOKS BETTER.

[ivan a rom]

So, I got it in finally. I must say that I'm impressed. Compared to the touch the apps are not as fast, but it's so much more versatile. Charging it is rather long but i just charged it while i slept and it was fine.

As far as battery life goes, i think it's ok...nothing spectacular, but I am anal about charging my stuff before i go to sleep.

The UI however, IS NOT BAD AT ALL. I like it.

Oh, and the photos look fantastic.

I'll be using it as my DVR soon. :)

[gloss]

So, I got it in finally. I must say that I'm impressed. Compared to the touch the apps are not as fast, but it's so much more versatile. Charging it is rather long but i just charged it while i slept and it was fine.

As far as battery life goes, i think it's ok...nothing spectacular, but I am anal about charging my stuff before i go to sleep.

The UI however, IS NOT BAD AT ALL. I like it.

Oh, and the photos look fantastic.

I'll be using it as my DVR soon. :)

Cool. Report back.

[clevin]

Size, ugly ui and **** wifi battery was the killer for me when comparing archos to touch.
thank god pretty isn't the only important thing in this world :)
I don't think the resolution of the photos would be an issue with TV out, as the TV out resolution is relatively low-res too.


it is, HDTV has pretty hight res, and iPT's photo are probably less than 640x480. its ok if the pics are just for general observing. if anybody rely on the information in the pic (like a pic with chemical table, a pic of some equations, etc), it will just be useless after the shrinking by iPT.

[onionperson654]

I'll be using it as my DVR soon. :)

If you need to use it as a DVR because you don't have one or want to watch alot of TV directly from cable/satellite then this would be a huge advantage that would make the Archos 605 a very different category of device and not "directly" comparable to the ipod touch.

On the other hand, if you don't, my vote is still for the touch (which I've had for 2 weeks and have to say is truly amazing).

[brettanderson]

1 hour on wifi for the archos 605 is too short. Can anyone post what times they have gotten.

how long does the touch last on wifi. I vaguely remember someone saying 2 hours.