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MacRumors
Sep 20, 2007, 08:16 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

As has been rumored, Orange announced (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200709200810DOWJONESDJONLINE000547_FORTUNE5.htm) today that they have signed an exclusive agreement with Apple to distribute the iPhone in France.

No details (price or plans) have yet been provided, and Apple has not yet announced the partnership. Apple Expo (http://www.apple-expo.com/), however, takes place next week starting on September 25th.

Earlier this week, Apple announced the iPhone for Germany (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/19/apple-announces-iphone-in-germany/) and the UK (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/18/iphone-launched-in-the-uk-on-o2-network/).

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/20/orange-announces-iphone-for-france/)



shigzeo
Sep 20, 2007, 08:24 AM
well, i do hope to hear that some good data plans and service is clinched to this. naturally this wont' be the first post. cheers

i want to finally get some positives comment for the service of the phone

AdeFowler
Sep 20, 2007, 08:27 AM
I fully expected the Steve Jobs European Tour to roll into Paris today. Not the case I guess :confused:

SheriffParker
Sep 20, 2007, 08:29 AM
Apple and Orange!
Apple and Orange!

MrCrowbar
Sep 20, 2007, 08:39 AM
All those rumors getting true one after another kinda gets boring. I want the Powerbook G5 back :p

Price will probably be the same as in Germany.

neonfilm
Sep 20, 2007, 08:42 AM
Apple and Orange!
Apple and Orange!

That's funny, after looking at your post I visited another news site that reported about this movie with Inspektor Columbo:
http://www.picturehouse.com/titles/images/thing.jpg

drater
Sep 20, 2007, 08:43 AM
Viva la Revolucion!

Steve's like a friggin' missionary right now. Can't wait for the iRaq iPhone. Probably will have some sort of mine searching widget or something cool.

twoodcc
Sep 20, 2007, 08:46 AM
All those rumors getting true one after another kinda gets boring. I want the Powerbook G5 back :p

Price will probably be the same as in Germany.

I wouldn't go that far. I dont really like to be disappointed

k2k koos
Sep 20, 2007, 08:53 AM
since I am on orange in the UK, I think something needs to change....
let the french have the O2 deal, and the UK get the orange deal, then I could have an iPhone on Orange, as I prefer their customer services way above that of O2... Or I should move to france....:apple:

morespce54
Sep 20, 2007, 09:13 AM
All those rumors getting true one after another kinda gets boring. I want the Powerbook G5 back :p

right on. let's bring the Powerbook G5 and snappier Safari back!!! :D

zephead
Sep 20, 2007, 09:19 AM
All those rumors getting true one after another kinda gets boring. I want the Powerbook G5 back :p

Heheh, I know what you mean. It just isn't as fun unless we get to bitch about something that didn't come true. :D

hh83917
Sep 20, 2007, 09:23 AM
Nice...so is Jobs coming back to the US now to give us our 1.1.1 WITHOUT copy/paste, ichat, and Flash?... Probably improve stability?... :confused:

Dagless
Sep 20, 2007, 09:27 AM
Nice...so is Jobs coming back to the US now to give us our 1.1.1 WITHOUT copy/paste, ichat, and Flash?... Probably improve stability?... :confused:

You're confusing a useful update with a "die, hackers!" update.

mhfnyc
Sep 20, 2007, 09:40 AM
Other than the apple mystique, why would a Euopean buy a phone that is not 3G equiped.????

Rhuantavan
Sep 20, 2007, 09:42 AM
Nice...so is Jobs coming back to the US now to give us our 1.1.1 WITHOUT copy/paste, ichat, and Flash?... Probably improve stability?... :confused:

How about an iPhone for the rest of us in the EU, before that? Life sucks.

xenotaku
Sep 20, 2007, 09:43 AM
two things i dont understand about the european release.....

why would anyone in europe buy a phone that is not 3G? That would be like us buying a macbook pro that only supported dial up internet. Also....what is the point of exclusive deals in europe, when anyone can just change out the SIM card and use any and every server on the continent?

CrackedButter
Sep 20, 2007, 10:04 AM
two things i dont understand about the european release.....

why would anyone in europe buy a phone that is not 3G? That would be like us buying a macbook pro that only supported dial up internet. Also....what is the point of exclusive deals in europe, when anyone can just change out the SIM card and use any and every server on the continent?

Maybe people don't care about 3G as much as we think? You certainly don't need it when showing movies and photos to people when you're face to face with them in the pub or at uni.

hdasmith
Sep 20, 2007, 10:05 AM
As I've said many times, lots of people have 3G on their phone, and don't use it, that's why people will buy a non-3G phone. This goes more so with a Wi-fi enabled phone with free use of The Cloud and my uni network. I'm either there or at home so I don't need 3G to surf quickly.

koobcamuk
Sep 20, 2007, 10:06 AM
since I am on orange in the UK, I think something needs to change....
let the french have the O2 deal, and the UK get the orange deal, then I could have an iPhone on Orange, as I prefer their customer services way above that of O2... Or I should move to france....:apple:

It does strick me as odd that they didn't go with one provider across the board. It would be seriously cool for one company to do that, and maybe offer lower rates when roaming. Who cares anyway...

quigleybc
Sep 20, 2007, 10:10 AM
everyday a country gets announced and everyday it's not canada.....a little piece of me dies.....:apple: stupid iPhone....

miniConvert
Sep 20, 2007, 10:11 AM
This fragmentation of networks for the European release just doesn't make any sense to me. I hope Steve has a pretty good reason other than who was prepared to sacrifice the biggest chunk of their revenues in each market!

I'm a bit jealous of France and Germany, the first time I could ever say that! Why do we have to get lumbered with O2? :(

studiomusic
Sep 20, 2007, 10:16 AM
everyday a country gets announced and everyday it's not canada.....a little piece of me dies.....:apple: stupid iPhone....

Hey, at least the can$ caught up to the us$...

connectcctv@mac
Sep 20, 2007, 10:18 AM
This is strange, As orange is still in the main a UK company (but owned by a French company) and bar far has the best data support, customer service of any UK network. Why was O2 chosen in the UK on Orange in France. Money i guess. SO SAD:mad:

cliffjumper68
Sep 20, 2007, 10:21 AM
I guess after the UK announcement all the other companies got impatient for their announcements. I would have expected apple to make the announcement in similar style as the UK.

macFanDave
Sep 20, 2007, 10:22 AM
Hottest dish in Paris cafes: Pomme a l'Orange!

Small White Car
Sep 20, 2007, 10:25 AM
why would anyone in europe buy a phone that is not 3G? That would be like us buying a macbook pro that only supported dial up internet.

No, it's more like a computer that supports Ethernet-100 but not Gigabit Ethernet.

Now, for me, that's a deal-breaker. Any computer I buy has to have gigabit as I'm constantly copying 15 to 20 GB DV files all the time. But for most people, gigabit just isn't needed very often. For those people it just doesn't matter. I'm betting that those users outnumber me when it comes to laptops.

Now, I have NO CLUE how often people use 3G on their phones. I don't even have a 'net enabled cell phone myself. But I'm betting that maybe...just maybe...Apple has looked into it and figured out how often people use 3G on their phones. It looks to me like they've decided people don't use it enough to worry about it quite yet. Just because everyone HAS it doesn't mean they USE it.

I mean, on the one hand we have a multi-billion dollar company basing a huge new product line on what they think, and on the other hand we have people on the internet saying what they think.

No offense, but I'm betting the multi-billion dollar companty put a LITTLE bit more thought into this than you did.

Teddy's
Sep 20, 2007, 10:27 AM
All those rumors getting true one after another kinda gets boring. I want the Powerbook G5 back :p


What about "iPhone in Canada next tuesday"

Does it work for you???

gkarris
Sep 20, 2007, 10:37 AM
What about "iPhone in Canada next tuesday"

Does it work for you???

Can people tell me exactly what this "Canada" is, SVP??? :p

210
Sep 20, 2007, 10:45 AM
It does make me wonder if there will be a workaround for the UK as we also have Orange and T-Mobile here. I can see a problem converting AT&T to another network, but when you can get an iPhone from France on Orange and an iPhone from Germany on T-Mobile, would there be a way of "fooling" the iPhone in accepting a UK Orange or T-Mobile SIM? Something that won't be broken with a software/firmware update?

aLoC
Sep 20, 2007, 10:49 AM
Jules: Do you know what they call the iPhone in France?
Brett: No.
Jules: Tell him, Vincent.
Vincent: Ze Phon Royale. Do you know what they call it Ze Phon Royale?
Brett: Because they don't have the English language?
Jules: Check out the big brain on Brett. You one smart mofo.

gkarris
Sep 20, 2007, 10:56 AM
It does make me wonder if there will be a workaround for the UK as we also have Orange and T-Mobile here. I can see a problem converting AT&T to another network, but when you can get an iPhone from France on Orange and an iPhone from Germany on T-Mobile, would there be a way of "fooling" the iPhone in accepting a UK Orange or T-Mobile SIM? Something that won't be broken with a software/firmware update?

No. I would imagine your iTunes account specifies what region you are in and matches the phone's region to it. So, buying a German iPhone it looks for your residence in Germany...

s10
Sep 20, 2007, 10:58 AM
Other than the apple mystique, why would a Euopean buy a phone that is not 3G equiped.????

You should ask that to the large majority of people who don't have a 3G phone.

zwida
Sep 20, 2007, 11:04 AM
You should ask that to the large majority of people who don't have a 3G phone.

Are there readily available statistics on this? I'm curious about 3G usage and penetration in Europe. People talk as though it's nearly ubiquitous.

appie57
Sep 20, 2007, 11:06 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

No details (price or plans) have yet been provided, and Apple has not yet announced the partnership. Apple Expo (http://www.apple-expo.com/), however, takes place next week starting on September 25th.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/20/orange-announces-iphone-for-france/)

Makes me wonder if Steve is going to announce anything else at the Paris Expo. I can't imagine he will again introduce the iPhone to France, kinda dull.
3G is a disaster so far in Europe in terms of usage by consumers, so EDGE + Wifi should be a nice start.

hh83917
Sep 20, 2007, 11:27 AM
How about an iPhone for the rest of us in the EU, before that? Life sucks.

Sorry to say that, I was just throwing a fit. But if I live in Europe, I'd get something that's 3G since the network is already laid out for 3G. There are so many cooler phone options having 3G in the area. But in the US, I can only go for a pretty phone since the phone companies are too busy expanding their market shares than expanding their area limited highspeed network. Come on, I should be video chatting with my families on my cellphone by now. But, that's just me. Although not as functional, iPhone is still a pretty phone. :rolleyes:

Makes me wonder if Steve is going to announce anything else at the Paris Expo. I can't imagine he will again introduce the iPhone to France, kinda dull.
3G is a disaster so far in Europe in terms of usage by consumers, so EDGE + Wifi should be a nice start.

In that case, get an iPhone...

em500
Sep 20, 2007, 11:35 AM
I guess after the UK announcement all the other companies got impatient for their announcements. I would have expected apple to make the announcement in similar style as the UK.

I don't think Steve speaks French :)

quigleybc
Sep 20, 2007, 12:19 PM
Can people tell me exactly what this "Canada" is, SVP??? :p



The first rule of Canada is don't talk about Canada....

unless it gets the iPhone...then we can talk...about the iPhone.....:apple:stupid iPhone..

brewno
Sep 20, 2007, 12:28 PM
lol. Im leaving France in a month to go to Canada... I'm not lucky.:rolleyes:

EagerDragon
Sep 20, 2007, 12:31 PM
Viva la Revolucion!

Steve's like a friggin' missionary right now. Can't wait for the iRaq iPhone. Probably will have some sort of mine searching widget or something cool.

Or a remote detonator

EagerDragon
Sep 20, 2007, 12:37 PM
since I am on orange in the UK, I think something needs to change....
let the french have the O2 deal, and the UK get the orange deal, then I could have an iPhone on Orange, as I prefer their customer services way above that of O2... Or I should move to france....:apple:

I rerely if ever call or otherwise interact with customer service. In the US, I used Verizon, Sprint and T-Mobile, they all about suck. I basically talk to them only when I set up the contract, and once or twice in the 2 year contract to check something about the bill. The rest of the time I do not see a need to deal with them regardless of how good or bad they are.

Maybe some people here have a lot of technical issues with the wireless service itself so they need to speak with a representative all the time, and as such how good they are is an issue.

Maybe it is just luck.
:apple:

EagerDragon
Sep 20, 2007, 12:39 PM
Other than the apple mystique, why would a Euopean buy a phone that is not 3G equiped.????

Because the 3G network does not come in iPhone flavor?

Manic Mouse
Sep 20, 2007, 12:42 PM
As I've said many times, lots of people have 3G on their phone, and don't use it, that's why people will buy a non-3G phone. This goes more so with a Wi-fi enabled phone with free use of The Cloud and my uni network. I'm either there or at home so I don't need 3G to surf quickly.

So you don't need EDGE, or unlimited data? Don't tell me you're paying for the contracts... :eek:

carltabet
Sep 20, 2007, 01:42 PM
Makes me wonder if Steve is going to announce anything else at the Paris Expo. I can't imagine he will again introduce the iPhone to France, kinda dull.

Surprisingly, Steve wasn't in Paris today to introduce the iPhone for the French market. Apple didn't make an official announcement yet so that will be for the Apple Expo. All we got was a confirmation from the Orange/France Télécom CEO who talked briefly to the press in Vietnam. No launch price and no price plans were given. We'll know on Sept. 25.

Anonymous Freak
Sep 20, 2007, 03:41 PM
Orange doesn't say how much it will sell for, but it's a pretty safe bet it will be the same €399 as in Germany.

On a side note, Apple says that the prices are roughly equivalent to the U.S. price because of already-added VAT price in Euroland compared to no-sales-tax-included U.S. price.

Here are some comparisons:

iPhone in Oregon, New Hampshire, or one of the other no-sales-tax states: $399.
iPhone in California, with its (nation's highest) state 7.5% sales tax: $428.93
iPhone in a locality with high state, plus high local sales taxes, equaling 9.75% (The highest I can find, Tennessee's state 7% plus it's local-max 2.75%): $437.90

iPhone in UK, VAT already added: £269, approx $540. UK has a 19% VAT, so pre-VAT price in dollars is approximately $455. Still more than the POST-TAX U.S. prices. I guess UK is more expensive. :p
iPhone in Germany, VAT already added: €399, approx $560 (UK for the win! This is in contrast to the iTunes Store, where the UK gets shafted compared to the rest of Euroland.) Germany has a VAT of 17.5%, so pre-VAT price is approximately $475 (UK even moreso for the win. Apple is just shafting the Germans.)

France has a 19.5% VAT, though, but Macs cost the same in Euros in both Germany and France, so Apple is likely just making a slightly smaller profit. I imagine it will still be €399, and Apple just takes a slight hit compared to Germany. (It still equals about $465 pre-VAT, so UK is still ahead here.)

I also feel sorry for the Irish, who 'share' a localized site with the UK, so they get to see all of Apple's iPhone marketing on their 'localized' Apple page, but don't get to buy it. (apple.com/ie redirects to apple.com/uk, which is titled "Apple (UK and Ireland)") And is it just me, or does typing "apple.com/ie" feel, I don't know, blasphemous? Kind of like typing "microsoft.com/safari"

Edit: Scratch that! They finally separated out the Irish! apple.com/ie is it's own site now! "Apple (Republic of Ireland)" It wasn't that way two days ago, and the apple.com/uk still says (UK and Ireland) They haven't fixed all the links yet, though. If you click any "Buy Now", you still get directed to the UK web store. But if you pick Ireland from the drop-down at the bottom of the Apple Store page, you get a Republic of Ireland store.

SthrnCmfrtr
Sep 20, 2007, 04:18 PM
I don't think Steve speaks French :)

I can here it now. "Et voila... le BOOM."

Wayfarer
Sep 20, 2007, 05:02 PM
iPhone's finally makin it's rounds and taking over the world!

So it begins.

TurboSC
Sep 20, 2007, 05:27 PM
Yea I found the announcements to be a little anti-climatic.

I mean I think Steve could have made a better impression on the European crowd.. oh well at least they're getting the iPhone, i'm sure that's more important :)

tiger02
Sep 20, 2007, 05:45 PM
...
iPhone in a locality with high state, plus high local sales taxes, equaling 9.75% (The highest I can find, Tennessee's state 7% plus it's local-max 2.75%): $437.90

iPhone in UK, VAT already added: £269, approx $540. UK has a 19% VAT, so pre-VAT price in dollars is approximately $455. Still more than the POST-TAX U.S. prices. I guess UK is more expensive. :p
imagine it will still be €399, and Apple just takes a slight hit compared to Germany. (It still equals about $465 pre-VAT, so UK is still ahead here.)


If I'm not mistaken, VAT rates are tax-inclusive, which means that the tax is actually 19% of $540, not 19% of $455. Which means that the pre tax UK price is $437.40. You do the math from there.

Cheers
Tom

Anonymous Freak
Sep 20, 2007, 06:59 PM
If I'm not mistaken, VAT rates are tax-inclusive, which means that the tax is actually 19% of $540, not 19% of $455. Which means that the pre tax UK price is $437.40. You do the math from there.

Cheers
Tom

Ah, so it's not "VAT is 19% of the pre-tax price", it's "19% of the total price is VAT"? I guess that actually makes more sense. Yeah, that would change my numbers (make the euro models cheaper,) by a bit. Not massively, though, as you point out. But it does make it more competitive. In fact, it makes it cheaper in UK than the max possible taxed price in the US.

shikimo
Sep 21, 2007, 02:05 AM
Hottest dish in Paris cafes: Pomme a l'Orange!

Pas mal:). Does anyone else think Steve wanted to have Orange in at least one country just for the sake of jokes like this??

Jules: Do you know what they call the iPhone in France?
Brett: No.
Jules: Tell him, Vincent.
Vincent: Ze Phon Royale. Do you know what they call it Ze Phon Royale?
Brett: Because they don't have the English language?
Jules: Check out the big brain on Brett. You one smart mofo.

Pas mal encore. This is the funniest thread I've read yet.

Ah, so it's not "VAT is 19% of the pre-tax price", it's "19% of the total price is VAT"? I guess that actually makes more sense. Yeah, that would change my numbers (make the euro models cheaper,) by a bit. Not massively, though, as you point out. But it does make it more competitive. In fact, it makes it cheaper in UK than the max possible taxed price in the US.

Yeah, the TVA is always included, usually with a little price below showing the amount pre-tax. In France it's against the law to post the pre-tax price without clearly marking the tax-inclusive total in the same field of vision (check out apple.fr for a good example of this). I like this system better: no getting to the register with your $500 toy and finding out it's actually a $540 toy...as if it matters to us who gets the extra 40 bucks.

In any case, the whole price difference issue is way overblown; sure I'm damn sick of paying 19.6% tax on everything, but there are also many many many things here that are waaaaay cheaper than anywhere I lived in the US, even after taxes, and in the end I live OK on less money per month (then again I'm not rich; rich people here get the royal shaft). Besides, unless you move money from one currency to another on a regular basis, trade on the Forex market or do alot of international traveling, exchange rates don't mean bupkis. Most people only 'live' (i.e. make and spend money) in one economy at a time; it is almost 100% meaningless, for example, for a European who has no financial ties to the US to complain that a 399-Euro iPhone prices out at $100,000 USD or whatever the rate is right now.

But I do love transferring Euros back to the states these days...:D

bhjs1
Sep 22, 2007, 12:01 AM
Wheres the iphone for canada...wtf mate...

netwalker
Sep 23, 2007, 01:45 PM
It does strick me as odd that they didn't go with one provider across the board. It would be seriously cool for one company to do that, and maybe offer lower rates when roaming. Who cares anyway...

I do and that's why I am disappointed. It is like the US would have different providers per state. I live in the Netherlands and it is quiet common to be in one of our neighboring countries like Germany or Belgium. Especially then mobile internet becomes interesting but until now that is not affordable (very high roaming rates depending on data volume). The success of the iPhone depends on available and affordable mobile internet. One solution for all of Europe would have been great.

I will stay with my 3G capable phone (yes, I actually use it) and 3G flatfee (unfortunately only in the Netherlands) and hope for some change.

metoo6000
Sep 23, 2007, 02:19 PM
iPhone in UK, VAT already added: £269, approx $540. UK has a 19% VAT, so pre-VAT price in dollars is approximately $455. Still more than the POST-TAX U.S. prices. I guess UK is more expensive. :p


I believe the VAT in the UK is 17.5%.

Anonymous Freak
Sep 23, 2007, 03:08 PM
I believe the VAT in the UK is 17.5%.

Sorry, I'm not in the UK, and it appears that I had reversed the Germany and UK VATs... (Germany is 19%, UK is 17.5%...) That equalizes the two country's "pre-VAT" prices a little.

wunderbaren
Oct 1, 2007, 03:40 AM
You think 17% VAT is mutch? Sweden has 25%!!

I Am Designer™
Oct 1, 2007, 08:19 AM
If Apple really are gunning for things like single price points across europe in the itunes store, then I don't understand why they couldnt find just one carrier for their phone.

I can't imagine that the companies they have settled with wouldnt want a pan-european model, as the sole provider of Apple's latest 'thing'... It really is tantamount to Apple having separate carriers in different states in the US - it makes absolutely no sense. Unless, they will announce that the phone will soon be available to all networks? Most phones in Europe tend to get an exclusive release with a single carrier before becoming more widely available. I can't imagine that Apple botched negotiations so much that they didnt speak to the top echelon of each company, instead of regional management... Or that they wouldnt prefer a single carrier across europe - I for one would have been happier if they didnt announce a European release until they absolutely had the deals sorted out.

Right now in the UK the o2 tariff is horrendously priced in a fairly mature market, that wont see any real value in the outlay - apart from actually owning the phone. I guess the real test will be how many phones are actually activated to o2. There is a big market in phone-unlocking in the UK, just about every indie phone shop offers it - I can see people forgoing things like visual voice mail - just so they don't have to get ripped off by o2...

LizKat
Oct 1, 2007, 08:51 AM
I don't think Steve speaks French :)

Maybe or maybe not, but the Apple OS does. :)

macinthebox-nan
Oct 2, 2007, 05:23 PM
iphone for france? where's that? :D:D

shikimo
Oct 9, 2007, 04:55 AM
I do and that's why I am disappointed. It is like the US would have different providers per state. I live in the Netherlands and it is quiet common to be in one of our neighboring countries like Germany or Belgium. Especially then mobile internet becomes interesting but until now that is not affordable (very high roaming rates depending on data volume). The success of the iPhone depends on available and affordable mobile internet. One solution for all of Europe would have been great.

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of this from the point of view of some of the smaller countries over here. Even in the larger nations there are millions of people who live and work on different sides of a national boundary...it's hard to imagine someone who lives in Strasbourg, for example, paying for an iPhone when they have to pay roaming fees at work, or maybe 5 kilometers from their apartment. Worse yet for the thousands of French citizens who live in France and work in Suisse...

iphone for france? where's that? :D:D

Wow, you got banned for a mild anti-French joke :)?? That's harsh...and it's further evidence of the Francophone Conspiracy.