Canadian Dollar Hits 99.99 US Cents! [Archive]

haiggy

Sep 20, 2007, 12:37 PM

Unspeaked

Sep 20, 2007, 12:47 PM

Yeah, this screws over Canadians on more than just Apple products.

You routinely still see books and magazines with Canada/US/Europe pricing that's till WAY off base with current exchange rates.

Lancetx

Sep 20, 2007, 01:20 PM

mkrishnan

Sep 20, 2007, 01:24 PM

Unspeaked

Sep 20, 2007, 01:33 PM

IJ Reilly

Sep 20, 2007, 02:32 PM

That's something that gets brought up in these forums often, and while true, it still doesn't justify product pricing that hasn't changed in years.

Look at magazines from five years ago and today. 90% of them have the same US/Canadian/Euro conversion now as then - you're telling me the huge fluctuations in the currency markets haven't caused those publishers to see bigger profits?

Most of the US dollar's decline has occurred with in the year. If the dollar remains depressed for a long period of time, I'd expect to see some prices adjusted as producers compete for market share. But as I've said many times before, retail prices are not routinely changed to reflect exchange rates if only because exchange rates are volatile and large corporations hedge against them with futures contracts.

Weak national currencies can be a boon for exporters but they can be very temporary benefits and mitigated by other factors on the higher costs side. The bottom line is that the market for goods is set in the country where the product is being sold, not where it's manufactured.

Kamera RAWr

Sep 20, 2007, 02:34 PM

it5five

Sep 20, 2007, 02:42 PM

Sort of on-topic, but does anyone know of any sort of savings account where I can save in a foreign currency rather than the USD?

I plan on moving to Canada within 2 years, and if their dollar passes the USD, I'd rather just start saving in the Canadian dollar so I don't get screwed with the exchange rate.

IJ Reilly

Sep 20, 2007, 02:43 PM

Its interesting to see the rise of the Canadian dollar against the US dollar, but I think its mostly due to the fall of the US dollar than any other factor. Perhaps I'm just stating the obvious, but its still my opinion :o

Well, it may just be your opinion but it appears to be correct!

http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=CAD&to=EUR&amt=1&t=5y

rdowns

Sep 20, 2007, 02:45 PM

It was at 1.0004 US earlier this morning - so it has been reached already. Crazy news... APPLE LOWER THE CANADIAN PRICING PLEASE. I'm going to have to pay $511 for a touch after taxes, whereas in the US I'd pay like $454. Grrrrrrrrrrr........ an extra $57!
:mad:

Celine Dion tax. Deal with it. :p

My comapny started selling in Canada several months ago. We are asked all the time why prices are higher there than in the US. Here's the answer. It costs us more money, we had to spend a considerable amount to break into your market and you have too many damn regulations. Other than that, we love your money. :D

Unspeaked

Sep 20, 2007, 02:49 PM

Its interesting to see the rise of the Canadian dollar against the US dollar, but I think its mostly due to the fall of the US dollar than any other factor. Perhaps I'm just stating the obvious, but its still my opinion :o

Actually, though the US dollar has fallen against all currencies, it's been particularly weak against the Canadian dollar because the Canadian economy has been doing well since the summer and - especially - rising oil prices have benefited Canadian currency a great deal.

For example, the US Dollar and UK Pound have been very close for some time now, while the Canadian Dollar was less than 80 US cents as recently as this spring.

Queso

Sep 20, 2007, 02:54 PM

For example, the US Dollar and UK Pound have been very close for some time now,
The UK Pound is worth roughly US$2. It's been that way for quite a while now. At least two or three years.

Music_Producer

Sep 20, 2007, 03:14 PM

Its interesting to see the rise of the Canadian dollar against the US dollar, but I think its mostly due to the fall of the US dollar than any other factor. Perhaps I'm just stating the obvious, but its still my opinion :o

Yes, I stated it some time ago in my forex thread - if the Feds cut rates, the dollar is doomed. The retards cut rates by 50 bps. It's not going to solve the subprime problem, and it's definitely going to affect the US$ really, really bad.

Just last night it was reported that Saudi Arabia may be breaking their currency peg with the US$. If this happens, most banks, investors, etc.. will dump US$ and switch to euros or pounds. So your house in California will probably buy a boat in Canada by then.. lol.

Also, Canadian $ goes up when oil prices go up. So you have a strong canadian $ and a super weak US$ .. I'm going to see if anything more dramatic happens.. I'm already thinking of diversifying my savings into metals such as gold.

IJ Reilly

Sep 20, 2007, 03:31 PM

I'm already thinking of diversifying my savings into metals such as gold.

IMO a better bet is foreign stock mutual funds. They've done very well over the past few years, and can only do better if the US$ continues to weaken.

The drop in the prime rate was done to stave off a potential recession, not to have much direct impact on the subprime lending market.

The dollar decline is a bummer for those of us who like to travel abroad, but otherwise it won't have any impact on our daily lives unless it turns into a run on the dollar and translates into inflation.

Unspeaked

Sep 20, 2007, 04:24 PM

The UK Pound is worth roughly US$2. It's been that way for quite a while now. At least two or three years.

I meant the exchange rate has been steady (as you yourself say), not the currency values themselves...

IMO a better bet is foreign stock mutual funds. They've done very well over the past few years, and can only do better if the US$ continues to weaken.

I don't know about that - for all the US economy's struggles, it still contributes mightily to foreign company's income.

A weak dollar can still bring down other economies, making foreign stocks not as safe a bet as you'd think.

Granted, in 5-10 years, the US dollar will probably mean very little on a global scale, but as of today it still carries some significance (though it ain't like it used to be...).

Eric Lewis

Sep 20, 2007, 04:46 PM

my mom just coverted 10grand into american

cause we have a house in florida..and it needs more furnature...we just bought it a month ago

IJ Reilly

Sep 20, 2007, 05:18 PM

I don't know about that - for all the US economy's struggles, it still contributes mightily to foreign company's income.

A weak dollar can still bring down other economies, making foreign stocks not as safe a bet as you'd think.

Granted, in 5-10 years, the US dollar will probably mean very little on a global scale, but as of today it still carries some significance (though it ain't like it used to be...).

The health of the US economy isn't reliant on exchange rates. In fact US manufacturers generally benefit from a cheap dollar. The major downside risk is inflation. Other economies can be damaged if the dollar drops too far too fast, but before that happens, you'd see the foreign federal banks jumping into the currency exchange markets to prop up the dollar -- and that hasn't happened yet.

And of course, no bet is safe. Precious metals investments sure aren't.

Rodimus Prime

Sep 20, 2007, 08:01 PM

remember we are in a world wide market right now. If the US goes into a recession it will take the rest of the world with it.

The US is one of the economic power houses of the world it used to be number one. It might of finally taken off as number 1 to the EU but rememeber the EU is separate countries so it not going to effect the world the same way as teh entire US.

The last recession in the US was in 2001 right after 9/11. Mind you 9/11 was not what caused it. 9/11 was just the finally blow because the US was on the edge of going into a recession. The rest of the world was either in a recession or on the edge and then 9/11 caused it. EU at the time was already in one. If you look at the world shorty afterwards the US finally falling in to a recession took most of the world down with it.

So to the non US people the last thing you all want is the US to go into a recession because it will take you with it. A weak dollar might cause some problems for everyone world wide.

IJ Reilly

Sep 20, 2007, 08:18 PM

The last recession began in March, 2001 and ended in November, 2001. In terms of GDP growth, it bottomed out around the middle of the summer. It was a brief and shallow recession by any historical measurements, but was followed by years of economic growth with little job creation.

Which is all beside point, since it's got nothing really to do with the value of the dollar.

Abstract

Sep 20, 2007, 08:53 PM

That's something that gets brought up in these forums often, and while true, it still doesn't justify product pricing that hasn't changed in years.

Look at magazines from five years ago and today. 90% of them have the same US/Canadian/Euro conversion now as then - you're telling me the huge fluctuations in the currency markets haven't caused those publishers to see bigger profits?

Exactly.

I wonder what would happen if such a drastic change went the other way. Instead of the Canadian dollar rising from CAD $1.00 = $0.64 USD to C$1 = US $1, what would have happened if the Canadian dollar value dropped drastically, and $1 Canadian was only equivalent to $0.35 US dollars? Do you think bookstores and other products would have stayed at the same price, or do you think stores would have reacted quickly by increasing the price of their products so that they don't go bankrupt?? ;)

I guess it's OK to have unfair pricing, as long as they're not the ones who are losing.

I think stores react as quickly as they want to, and in this case, they never want to make their Canadian prices cheaper. They'll just drag it out for years upon years, giving us some lame excuse.

IJ Reilly

Sep 20, 2007, 09:01 PM

The market for goods is set in the country where the product is being sold, not where it is manufactured. Prices can't be "unfair" unless the seller owns a monopoly.

This is Econ 101, folks.

Pani

Sep 20, 2007, 09:40 PM

Unspeaked said "Yeah, this screws over Canadians on more than just Apple products."

What I find interesting is how this is being spun by the press. ABC actually did a segment on how good it is for American business because their products will be cheaper on the international market. Just a happy, perky little peace. No mention of all the disadvantages. Besides, just because something is labeled made in USA doesn't necessarily mean all of it was actually made here anyway.

I also find it interesting the news is ending with affluence stories. How there isn't enough champagne to go around in the world because of so many nouveau riche. (Yeah, I am sure the people losing their home want to hear how new Russian millionares can't find champagne.) Today it was the top whatever richest people in the world and how some billionares don't even make the list. The only way that is useful is if the public ever woke up and decided to rebel, they would know who to target. Or at least hit them up for loans when the Federal reserve gets tired of printing money!

The international elite will survive just fine, but the working people in all countries will get you know what as always!

tutubibi

Sep 20, 2007, 09:45 PM

Based on the pattern for the last couple of years, Apple is usually fair (using fair exchange rate) when setting price for new products or after product updates. Unfortunately, it never updates price in other countries unless there is change in USD price too (or product update). And with continuing slide of USD it of course works in Apple's favour. :(

maestrokev

Sep 20, 2007, 11:08 PM

Duties are designed to protect the local market. Apple's argument would be that it costs money to build support/warranty facilities in Canada and spread these costs over a potential population of 32million Canadians. Taxes are irrelevant as they are federal and state/provincial imposed and just fatten the government coffers.

The question for those of you have used Apple Canada's support services: is that phone support located in Canada, warranty/repair work/parts: are they all from Canada?

If you've purchased an Apple product in another country, will the local country service it if you did not buy AppleCare?

maestrokev

Sep 20, 2007, 11:09 PM

The market for goods is set in the country where the product is being sold, not where it is manufactured. Prices can't be "unfair" unless the seller owns a monopoly.

This is Econ 101, folks.

Yes, it can be unfair, it just isn't illegal.

Wayfarer

Sep 20, 2007, 11:12 PM

I am awestruck. :eek:

Abstract

Sep 20, 2007, 11:59 PM

The question for those of you have used Apple Canada's support services: is that phone support located in Canada, warranty/repair work/parts: are they all from Canada?

If you've purchased an Apple product in another country, will the local country service it if you did not buy AppleCare?

I haven't had to call support for awhile now, but I recall having to speak with an American for phone support. I think Canadian and American servicing is the same.

Pants Dragon

Sep 21, 2007, 12:01 AM

1.00 CAD

=

1.00053 USD

we're winning.:)

brad.c

Sep 21, 2007, 12:04 AM

First their dangerous lead in Zamboni technology, then the pervasive encroachment of Tim Horton's and their nefarious Timbits on our soil, and now this? The United States will never be safe until we deal decisively with that bunch of candy striping pinkos.

:eek:

Sorry, this thread would be remiss without some loosely Canadian Bacon style xenophobia. :)

But is the Timbit on par with the Krisky Kreme mini?
Is Second Cup's Large Chiller matching Starbucks Grande Frappuccino?
Will Lowes equal Canadian Tire?
Will Jack Bauer stop Canadian infiltrators in this season's 24?
(psst: Keifer Sutherland and Elisa Cuthbert are Canucks.)

IJ Reilly

Sep 21, 2007, 12:52 AM

Yes, it can be unfair, it just isn't illegal.

No, not really. As I've said, prices are set in the market where the goods are sold, unless the maker doesn't need to complete, because they've got a monopoly. Prices aren't "unfair" or "illegal" just because they're more than you want to pay. Econ 101. Adam Smith. You could look it up.

Rodimus Prime

Sep 21, 2007, 01:16 AM

I would not expect the Canada prices to really ever come down. It is the price Canada pay for inflation. When the CAN dollar was weak it drove all the prices up. Now that it is stronger the inflation is there and they have to deal with it.

I have to say Canada right now is a good example of how inflation can suck. Even when the currency becomes strong it is not going to effect the prices. Like IJ said early in the strength of the dollar does not really effect the US citizen that much. Right now the only problem will be inflation might get out of hand and the fed will take action. They did during nixon times.
I believe Greenspan told Nixon either he (Nixon) get inflation under control or IO(Greenspan) would" Guess what Greenspan got it under control by pushing the intersted right sky high and yes drove the US economy in to a fairly big rescission to save it from run away inflation (13% at the time)

Iscariot

Sep 21, 2007, 01:30 AM

But is the Timbit on par with the Krisky Kreme mini?
Is Second Cup's Large Chiller matching Starbucks Grande Frappuccino?
Will Lowes equal Canadian Tire?
Will Jack Bauer stop Canadian infiltrators in this season's 24?
(psst: Keifer Sutherland and Elisa Cuthbert are Canucks.)

Second Cup's Chillate > any Starbucks frozen drink.

But Starbucks' hot drinks are still better.

This is going to have an effect on Canada's manufacturing sector, that's for sure. But Canadians have to remember that it's not so much the loonie doing well as the American dollar doing poorly. This may be an opportunity for the manufacturing sector to reduce costs by incorporating better technology that will now be available at a better price. Hopefully the federal government will keep up tax breaks for new machinery to bolster this.

maestrokev

Sep 21, 2007, 02:21 AM

No, not really. As I've said, prices are set in the market where the goods are sold, unless the maker doesn't need to complete, because they've got a monopoly. Prices aren't "unfair" or "illegal" just because they're more than you want to pay. Econ 101. Adam Smith. You could look it up.

Calling prices "unfair" is an expression of consumer sentiment, one that behavioral finance is more concerned with as it affects the purchasing decisions made by the consumer. Alan Greenspan (former FOMC chairman) calls the subprime mortgage lenders "egregious." The FOMC's response to mortgage default "fears" and possible spillover into tightening of consumer spending is to reduce rates. Now this situation isn't unfair or illegal by your classical definition as there's no monopoly ... caveat emptor, but Smith is dead, consumers are not rational and Bernanke is obviously worried about consumer sentiment.

Unspeaked

Sep 21, 2007, 10:43 AM

Like IJ said early in the strength of the dollar does not really effect the US citizen that much.

Yeah, unless they ever want to take a vacation outside of Vegas and Disneyworld (say, to one of these far away lands where our money buys less and less - Toronto, for example!).

Or unless one of us - gasp! - would like to relocate or retire to a foreign country and our life savings suddenly is worth a fraction of its current value.

But Canadians have to remember that it's not so much the loonie doing well as the American dollar doing poorly.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, that isn't really the case.

It's true for the pound and, to some extent, the Euro that their recent strength is based on US Dollar weakness, but the Canadian Dollar has been gaining against *ALL* major currencies, just not as dramatically (or as symbolically) as it has against the US Dollar...

IJ Reilly

Sep 21, 2007, 11:20 AM

Calling prices "unfair" is an expression of consumer sentiment, one that behavioral finance is more concerned with as it affects the purchasing decisions made by the consumer. Alan Greenspan (former FOMC chairman) calls the subprime mortgage lenders "egregious." The FOMC's response to mortgage default "fears" and possible spillover into tightening of consumer spending is to reduce rates. Now this situation isn't unfair or illegal by your classical definition as there's no monopoly ... caveat emptor, but Smith is dead, consumers are not rational and Bernanke is obviously worried about consumer sentiment.

Quite right, it's a gut reaction -- which doesn't have any other meaning, really. Some people in countries where currencies have become relatively strong over the last year are now expecting an automatic discount. It doesn't work that way, because that's not how goods and services are priced. If I make widgets in the US for sale in Canada at $10 Canadian each, I'm not going to lower my price to Canadians to $7 each simply because the US dollar declined by 30% in value against the Canadian dollar. I might lower the price a little to gain competitive advantage, but not by much, because $10 is still the going rate for widgets in Canada.

mkrishnan

Sep 21, 2007, 11:55 AM

notjustjay

Sep 21, 2007, 11:58 AM

Second Cup's Chillate > any Starbucks frozen drink.

Tim Horton's Iced Cappuccino for the win.

As far as I'm concerned I'm ready to take a trip to the US for a shopping spree.

mkrishnan

Sep 21, 2007, 12:02 PM

As far as I'm concerned I'm ready to take a trip to the US for a shopping spree.

I'd suggest picking up an iPhone if it weren't for the disastrous data plan rates Rogers and Fido offer.... :(

I remember actually that, when I was a kid, some of my family members coming down from Toronto (to Detroit) for shopping in the US... I remember them picking up an NES, and for whatever reason, it was a good buy to get it in the US at that time.

Unspeaked

Sep 21, 2007, 12:35 PM

I remember them picking up an NES, and for whatever reason, it was a good buy to get it in the US at that time.

Because it was like with Mac products: even with the poor exchange rate, they avoided the markup.

Which is the one good thing about a weak dollar for Americans - we'll be seeing a ton of Canadian tourists (at least in the Northern states) and probably a lot more European and Asian tourists (like Disneyworld needed anymore!).

brad.c

Sep 21, 2007, 01:21 PM

...Which is the one good thing about a weak dollar for Americans - we'll be seeing a ton of Canadian tourists (at least in the Northern states)...

I'm not much of a cross-border shopper to begin with, but the post 9/11 border security is keeping me away from day or overnight spending sprees. A report on CBC last night compared today's wait times at the border to be the same or longer than ten years ago, with less than half the volume of Canadians crossing south.

I won't criticize--you guys do what you need to be safe--but that will slow down whatever tourist bonanza the northern states are hoping for.

Besides, my passport is expired, and it'll take destinations far more exotic than Disneyland (or Buffalo) to wait in THAT line-up.

CanadaRAM

Sep 21, 2007, 07:39 PM

To answer the previous question, yes Apple maintains offices and personnel in Canada. If you are a consumer calling Applecare you'll reach an international call centre, but if you are a major corp/gov't account you'll have a Canadian system engineer going to your site.

All Apple product in Canada other than AppleStore has to go through one of three distribution companies, they take their mark up of course, and there is an additional freight cost. The Apple Canadian products mostly have individual Canadian part numbers and different package contents because there are English and French versions, and Apple has to comply with different packaging, CSA approval (for anything that plugs in), DOT communications regulations approval (for anything with a radio or a laser in it) and instruction manual regulations in Canada than in the US. This is a real cost to the distribution in Canada.

Iscariot

Sep 21, 2007, 10:35 PM

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, that isn't really the case.

It's true for the pound and, to some extent, the Euro that their recent strength is based on US Dollar weakness, but the Canadian Dollar has been gaining against *ALL* major currencies, just not as dramatically (or as symbolically) as it has against the US Dollar...

The Canadian economy is up, but the US dollar is at it's lowest trade-weighted value since the inception of the Federal Reserve Index nearly 40 years ago. Parity and the resulting coverage and general reaction has more to do with the latter than the former, and Canadians shouldn't panic about potential service sector hits, that's all I'm sayin'.

Unspeaked

Sep 21, 2007, 10:57 PM

The Canadian economy is up, but the US dollar is at it's lowest trade-weighted value since the inception of the Federal Reserve Index nearly 40 years ago. Parity and the resulting coverage and general reaction has more to do with the latter than the former, and Canadians shouldn't panic about potential service sector hits, that's all I'm sayin'.

Yeah, but the US Dollar being down is just coincidence - that's all *I'm* sayin'.

For example, a 6 month chart of how the Canadian Dollar has done against the Euro:

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5430/picture1jq3.jpg

Iscariot

Sep 21, 2007, 11:03 PM

Yeah, but the US Dollar being down is just coincidence - that's all *I'm* sayin'.

For example, a 6 month chart of how the Canadian Dollar has done against the Euro:

(MAD GRAPH GOES HERE YO)

I don't disagree on either point. You don't have a "Location" (and to be fair, neither do I), but if you were up here in Toronto hearing what I hear or knew people from some of the manufacturin' 'burbs like Oshawa, you'd think the sky was falling.

Edit: pulled the IMG

Sargiel

Sep 22, 2007, 03:30 AM

With reference to foreign pricing for Apple products I'm not unhappy with the price of the iPhone in the UK. £269 including tax strikes me as being fair with the remaining small difference from the US price being reflective of the additional costs of doing business in the UK.

A lot of people will look at American pricing, do a straight currency conversion and scream about exploitation without factoring in tax (there's always a tax - it's just we're used to seeing it included in store prices here :D ) and other barriers specific to the British marketplace.

Of course I don't know enough about Canada specifically to comment overmuch - but I hope our friends in Canada don't have to pay too much over the odds in real terms :apple:

Abstract

Sep 22, 2007, 05:03 AM

^^^I'm guessing you're not a British Nikon user. ;)

Apple has been a bit more fair than most. No, really. You may think every company rips off UK citizens, but I don't find that to be the case with Apple.

weckart

Sep 22, 2007, 01:42 PM

No, Microsoft and Adobe are duking it out for the title of Rip Off Merchant UK 2007, with Microsoft a nose ahead, since the reviews of CS3 have generally been quite positive in contrast with those of Vista.

brad.c

Sep 22, 2007, 03:54 PM

...All Apple product in Canada other than AppleStore has to go through one of three distribution companies, they take their mark up of course, and there is an additional freight cost. ...

I do remember from my retail marketing days for a Canadian national chain, that for coast-to-coast campaigns, we had to regionalize ads that featured large physical items like appliances and mattresses. Distribution was centered in Ontario, and provinces on either coast saw incremental product price gains that were directly attributed to shipping costs. More so in Vancouver than Halifax.

Could be the 49th parallel gives a convenient landmark to apply these costs.

Although there is an Apple warehouse in Markham, Ontario, and a laptop is somewhat smaller than a twin sized mattress and box spring.

Abstract

Sep 22, 2007, 08:45 PM

Distribution was centered in Ontario, and provinces on either coast saw incremental product price gains that were directly attributed to shipping costs. More so in Vancouver than Halifax.

Could be the 49th parallel gives a convenient landmark to apply these costs.

And that type of cost are never incurred in America. A product from a Japanese company that's made in Thailand is more expensive in Japan than America. I just don't get it. Is it due to localization of the marketing across that massive island country of Japan?

guifa

Sep 22, 2007, 09:00 PM

Or unless one of us - gasp! - would like to relocate or retire to a foreign country and our life savings suddenly is worth a fraction of its current value.
That's me. I move to Spain on Saturday for a year and possibly longer, and while I'll be paid in Euros, my savings aren't worth anywhere near as much as they were when I first applied for the job, and even less than when I last went there, which was less than the time before that. 1.25 two summers ago, 1.33 last summer and now 1.41 with no signs of stopping. It'll probably be 1.50 when my family comes to see me for Christmas.

freebooter

Sep 22, 2007, 10:49 PM

That's me. I move to Spain on Saturday for a year and possibly longer, and while I'll be paid in Euros, my savings aren't worth anywhere near as much as they were when I first applied for the job, and even less than when I last went there, which was less than the time before that. 1.25 two summers ago, 1.33 last summer and now 1.41 with no signs of stopping. It'll probably be 1.50 when my family comes to see me for Christmas.

Same with me in Korea. Paid in Won but send it back to Canada. The Canadian dollar rise has made my Korean earnings less valuable by quite a bit this year.
One thing no one has mentioned is how this CAD-USD parity will allow the U.S and Canadian currencies to easily merge into the Amero, North America's slated answer to the Euro. How the Mexican peso is doing lately, I don't know, but they are part of the North American Union juggernaut, as well.

Unspeaked

Sep 22, 2007, 10:57 PM

guifa and freebooter, I feel for you!

A friend of the family had retired to Ireland last year, converting all their US savings into Euros in the process. They sold their house, found a place to rent over there and made a go at it.

After a year, they decided they wanted to be back in the US, and converted everything back.

They actually had more money after coming back than before they left, and that was the same money they were using to live off of for a year (rent, food, shopping, etc.)!!!

IJ Reilly

Sep 23, 2007, 12:38 AM

One thing no one has mentioned is how this CAD-USD parity will allow the U.S and Canadian currencies to easily merge into the Amero, North America's slated answer to the Euro.

Slated? You must mean completely imagined. Maybe that's why nobody's mentioned it.

Kamera RAWr

Sep 23, 2007, 06:23 PM

Slated? You must mean completely imagined. Maybe that's why nobody's mentioned it.

Me thinks it might have been tongue in cheek :p

IJ Reilly

Sep 23, 2007, 07:36 PM

Me thinks it might have been tongue in cheek :p

Hard to know. Someone has actually proposed the Amero concept, but it's gone about as far as you might expect.

brad.c

Sep 25, 2007, 12:28 AM

Hard to know. Someone has actually proposed the Amero concept, but it's gone about as far as you might expect.

The Amero is coming, as soon as the US adapts the metric system.

MacinDoc

Sep 25, 2007, 04:22 AM

Exchange rates are only one aspect of product pricing. You obviously also have to take into account the duties, taxes, etc. charged for importing goods into Canada from the United States. The same goes for those of us in the United States when we buy goods imported from other countries as well. Those taxes are always passed on to the consumer somehow.
Of course, most Apple products aren't even made in the U.S., and duties in the U.S. and Canada for products imported from Asia are similar. Canadian taxes, unlike the British VAT, are added to the price at the point of sale.

Having said this, the only major quarrel I have with Apple's pricing is the very infrequent updates - usually only when a new product first ships. iLife 08, for example, is being sold at par. Mac Pros, on the other hand, carry a 10-15% surcharge. So, if Apple updated its prices a bit more frequently, they would probably be much fairer than the prices charged by publishers and other manufacturers (for example, books priced at $6.99-$7.99 USD are $12.99 CAD, and the Samsung Quatro RM255LASH refrigerator sells for $1999 at Best Buy in the U.S. and $3699 at Future Shop in Canada).

synth3tik

Sep 25, 2007, 04:23 AM

man, we suck in the states:mad:

IJ Reilly

Sep 25, 2007, 12:10 PM

Having said this, the only major quarrel I have with Apple's pricing is the very infrequent updates - usually only when a new product first ships. iLife 08, for example, is being sold at par. Mac Pros, on the other hand, carry a 10-15% surcharge. So, if Apple updated its prices a bit more frequently, they would probably be much fairer than the prices charged by publishers and other manufacturers (for example, books priced at $6.99-$7.99 USD are $12.99 CAD, and the Samsung Quatro RM255LASH refrigerator sells for $1999 at Best Buy in the U.S. and $3699 at Future Shop in Canada).

These comparisons are essentially meaningless. Instead try comparing the prices of books printed in Canada vs. books printed in the US, or the prices of all computers sold in Canada. I think you'll find that the price of goods is set in the markets where they are sold, not where they are manufactured.

adk

Sep 28, 2007, 02:37 AM

These comparisons are essentially meaningless. Instead try comparing the prices of books printed in Canada vs. books printed in the US, or the prices of all computers sold in Canada. I think you'll find that the price of goods is set in the markets where they are sold, not where they are manufactured.

Exactly. While the cost of a good may be higher in Canada, I'd also wager that the Canadian buying it has a higher salary (in Canadian Dollars) than does an American with the same job.

My real fear is that once the US dollar does start gaining against foreign currency it will be because of inflation and not because of economic gains.

michaelvjsmyth

Sep 28, 2007, 04:20 AM

I hope our Aussie dollar reaches parity soon, we're nearly there, 88c (consider that it was 48c only a few years ago)

Analog Kid

Sep 28, 2007, 04:37 AM

I just got back from a few days in Toronto. They laughed at me. I'd go to buy something in a store and ask "are US dollars ok" and they'd just get all giddy and say "They're the same!". They'd hold a Canadian 10 and a US 10 in the air and say "They're the same!" and giggle and giggle until I could get myself out to the street and blend into the crowd...

On the one hand it was nice that I could just mix and match-- pay a $7 bill with $5 Canadian and $2 US, but then I'd think about how far my country has fallen if I'm being publicly ridiculed by the gentle Canucks...

Oh, and as far as Apple's pricing goes? When you hosers adjust the price of beer to reflect the strong loonie, we'll talk about Apple dropping Macbook prices.

Music_Producer

Sep 28, 2007, 08:59 AM

Ok, its 99.46 now. USD is getting beaten up by every currency - Euro hit 1.42. Geez..

Unspeaked

Sep 28, 2007, 10:42 AM

Ok, its 99.46 now. USD is getting beaten up by every currency - Euro hit 1.42. Geez..

We'll always have the peso...

Right? RIGHT?!?!

MacinDoc

Sep 29, 2007, 02:10 AM

Exactly. While the cost of a good may be higher in Canada, I'd also wager that the Canadian buying it has a higher salary (in Canadian Dollars) than does an American with the same job.

My real fear is that once the US dollar does start gaining against foreign currency it will be because of inflation and not because of economic gains.
Unlikely. The average Canadian income is less than the average American income, and the average personal taxes paid by Canadians are significantly higher. Although my profession is not typical, I have been offered more than 150% of my current income to do the same work in the U.S. And that was not a particularly generous offer.

The only significant advantage Canadians have is government-sponsored health care, which, at least for the poor, is better than what's available to Americans. Well, that, the ban on the public carrying handguns, and hockey. ;)

adk

Sep 29, 2007, 02:55 AM

Unlikely. The average Canadian income is less than the average American income, and the average personal taxes paid by Canadians are significantly higher. Although my profession is not typical, I have been offered more than 150% of my current income to do the same work in the U.S. And that was not a particularly generous offer.

The only significant advantage Canadians have is government-sponsored health care, which, at least for the poor, is better than what's available to Americans. Well, that, the ban on the public carrying handguns, and hockey. ;)

I disagree. I don't know what you do, but I looked up jobs as a baggage handler in the US and Canada (because they usually list pay rates) and found the following:

1. Air Canada - Edmonton $12.51CAD/hr.
2. Continental Airlines - $9.69USD/hr.

brad.c

Sep 29, 2007, 10:01 AM

I disagree. I don't know what you do, but I looked up jobs as a baggage handler in the US and Canada (because they usually list pay rates) and found the following:

1. Air Canada - Edmonton $12.51CAD/hr.
2. Continental Airlines - $9.69USD/hr.

That's crazy. Ontario just raised the minimum wage to $10/hour. So you get more cleaning Canadian fast food toilets than working behind American security lines?

I remember friends that were offered substantial raises to relocate south to the US (IT industry, pre 9/11); the numbers were roughly the same, the raise came from the exchange rates.

You will know things are bad when outsourced/overseas online support workers in India ask not to be paid in $US.

adk

Sep 29, 2007, 02:52 PM

That's crazy. Ontario just raised the minimum wage to $10/hour. So you get more cleaning Canadian fast food toilets than working behind American security lines?

I remember friends that were offered substantial raises to relocate south to the US (IT industry, pre 9/11); the numbers were roughly the same, the raise came from the exchange rates.

You will know things are bad when outsourced/overseas online support workers in India ask not to be paid in $US.

That's baggage handling. TSA guys start at $12-$13/hr. But Ontario's minimum wage is another good example.
The US's blanket minimum wage was just raised from $5.15/hr to $5.85/hr. Some states have their own higher minimum wages, with Washington the leader with a $7.93/hr minimum wage. About 10% of the states have minimum wages above $7/hr, 50% of them are between $6-$7/hr, and the rest are at the federal minimum wage level of $5.85/hr.

MacinDoc

Sep 29, 2007, 07:40 PM

I disagree. I don't know what you do, but I looked up jobs as a baggage handler in the US and Canada (because they usually list pay rates) and found the following:

1. Air Canada - Edmonton $12.51CAD/hr.
2. Continental Airlines - $9.69USD/hr.
On average, American incomes are higher. (http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States)

And for the average two child family, Canadian taxes are twice as high (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Canada). So Canadian take-home income is much lower.

adk

Sep 30, 2007, 04:00 AM

On average, American incomes are higher. (http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States)

First off, you make a great case by using Wikipedia as a source :rolleyes:

Secondly,
In 2005, the median annual household income according to the US Census Bureau was determined to be $46,326,[3] similar to that of Canada which was roughly $41,510 (USD) in the year 2000.

On June 1, 2000 (random date) the CAD-USD exchange rate was 0.66840 (source (http://www.oanda.com)) which means that the median Canadian income in 2000 was 62,103 CAD. While that may have been equivalent to 41,510 USD in 2000, today it is equivalent to 62,430.76 USD (Source (http://www.xe.com) as of 9/30).

fistful

Sep 30, 2007, 04:38 AM

I disagree. I don't know what you do, but I looked up jobs as a baggage handler in the US and Canada (because they usually list pay rates) and found the following:

1. Air Canada - Edmonton $12.51CAD/hr.
2. Continental Airlines - $9.69USD/hr.

Just thought I'd mention workers in Alberta generally make more than the average Canadian. I know countless people from this area (southern Ontario) who have moved out there in the last few years for the higher wages. Your finding in this case may not be an accurate assessment.

IJ Reilly

Sep 30, 2007, 11:39 AM

I'm sure I don't get the relevance of this discussion of median incomes. A country could be completely impoverished, but this doesn't have any impact on the price of imported goods.

Unspeaked

Oct 1, 2007, 02:13 PM

The only significant advantage Canadians have is government-sponsored health care, which, at least for the poor, is better than what's available to Americans. Well, that, the ban on the public carrying handguns, and hockey. ;)

I don't think this should be overlooked:

Hockey teams in Canada: 6

Hockey teams in USA: 24

And you can actually get *tickets* in most US arenas (::cough:: Leaps ::cough:: Habs).

;)

Marble

Oct 2, 2007, 06:18 AM

I paid tuition to a Canadian University from my savings in the 'States for the past four years. Let me tell you, it's pretty grim to stare at fractional increases to your $20,000 annual tuition on a daily basis.

Even worse, I will have to double up on loans that were half their current interest rate four years ago if I am to attend the grad school I'm after in UK, and then only to face an even harsher exchange rate.

My God. :(