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MacRumors
Sep 20, 2007, 07:33 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

After nearly a month (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/24/apple-seeds-mac-os-x-leopard-9a527-9a528a/) without an update, Apple has delivered a Leopard update to developers. First, a new version of the Leopard Software Update Client has been seeded through Leopard's Mac OS X Software Update. Once this new Software Update tool is installed, Apple also provides Mac OS X Leopard Client Seed Update.

The new Seed Update is "recommended for all users running Mac OS X Leopard 9A527 or 9A528" and brings the Leopard seed up to 9A528d. The update includes general fixes and is also meant to test the new version of Software Update.

Leopard seeds have been notably absent in the past 3-4 weeks. Apple's October deadline for Leopard is quickly approaching. Leopard will need to be finalized soon to ramp up duplication and distribution for the October release (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/12/apple-delays-leopard-release/) timeline.

Apple's last major Mac OS X release (Tiger, 10.4) was declared Gold Master (http://www.macrumors.com/2005/03/31/tiger-gold-master/) on March 31, 2005. Tiger was later launched in retail stores on Friday, April 29th, 2005 (http://www.macrumors.com/2005/04/29/apple-mac-os-x-tiger-launch-events-and-more/), almost one month later.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/20/apple-updates-mac-os-x-10-5-leopard-to-9a528d/)



Eidorian
Sep 20, 2007, 07:34 PM
It's almost Gold Master time. :D

BiikeMike
Sep 20, 2007, 07:36 PM
All I can say is, I better be wowed!

twoodcc
Sep 20, 2007, 07:37 PM
It's almost Gold Master time. :D

yes it is!

hopefully in the next 10 days

Football1maniac
Sep 20, 2007, 07:37 PM
I was expecting an iPhone update but oh well, this is just as good. Amazing week for Apple, I wonder where the Steve Jobs Bandwagon Tour of Europe is going next? Maybe to go kill a Tiger. :D:apple:

mrkramer
Sep 20, 2007, 07:38 PM
so does anyone know how stable this version is yet?

desenso
Sep 20, 2007, 07:42 PM
All I can say is, I better be wowed!

Or else, what, you're going to buy Vista?

It's no surprise. You already know what's coming. What's left to be wowed about?

I just want the damn OS already. New finder baby!

maberga29
Sep 20, 2007, 07:42 PM
... I wonder where the Steve Jobs Bandwagon Tour of Europe is going next? Maybe to go kill a Tiger. :D:apple:

Ahh yes, the very elusive European Tiger... known for it's stability and prowess.

p0intblank
Sep 20, 2007, 07:45 PM
I think it's pretty safe to say Leopard will be released late October. It'll be well worth the wait, though. :)

Darkroom
Sep 20, 2007, 07:45 PM
i can't wait!!! EKKK!!!

Rocketman
Sep 20, 2007, 07:47 PM
When you go into Costco to buy an iPod, what you pick up from the pallet of packages is a fancy face card you take to check-out and on completion of transaction you take a voucher to the "valuable goods" window to pick up your actual iPod.

I predict most OSX 10.5 users will buy a download certificate with a low-cost add-on fee for physical artifact discs, which can be picked up at your Apple Store (or Best Buy or whatever) for free or shipped for a small fee. In the mean time, most people will already be cheerfully running OSX 10.5 weeks before.

Software update has been tracking unapproved copies of OSX for years. They just have a non-enforcement policy.

Rocketman

BigJohno
Sep 20, 2007, 07:48 PM
Hmm well they better release it in october or els ill do somethin bad. :)

Chaszmyr
Sep 20, 2007, 07:48 PM
If I recall weren't there a few builds known to be release candidates prior to Tiger being declared Gold Master? There's been absolutely no word about this build being RC1, so far as I know.

michaelrjohnson
Sep 20, 2007, 07:51 PM
I'm pretty excited about it, that's for sure.

I'm just planning on getting it when it comes included with my new iMac purchase... whenever that happens.

gusapple
Sep 20, 2007, 07:53 PM
Windows Vista, Mac OS X, and Leopard...

Rip, blow

Name three operating systems delayed over 2 times...:D

thestaton
Sep 20, 2007, 07:53 PM
Man, I hope you are right! That would be excellent.

When you go into Costco to buy an iPod, what you pick up from the pallet of packages is a fancy face card you take to check-out and on completion of transaction you take a voucher to the "valuable goods" window to pick up your actual iPod.

I predict most OSX 10.5 users will buy a download certificate with a low-cost add-on fee for physical artifact discs, which can be picked up at your Apple Store (or Best Buy or whatever) for free or shipped for a small fee. In the mean time, most people will already be cheerfully running OSX 10.5 weeks before.

Software update has been tracking unapproved copies of OSX for years. They just have a non-enforcement policy.

Rocketman

JPyre
Sep 20, 2007, 07:53 PM
so does anyone know how stable this version is yet?

Seeing as I've been using 527 for a couple of weeks with no issues whatsoever, I would think this build is just as good. I used the transfer user account option from a 10.4.10 volume, worked great. I have noticed that Sixtyforce, a N64 emulator that has yet to be updated for 10.5, runs a lot better in 10.5 than 10.4.10 along with alot of other stuff, just an observation.

Dual 2.0 G5 Tower, 1 GB RAM, Memorex DL-DVD Burner added.

hob
Sep 20, 2007, 07:56 PM
I predict most OSX 10.5 users will buy a download certificate with a low-cost add-on fee for physical artifact discs, which can be picked up at your Apple Store (or Best Buy or whatever) for free or shipped for a small fee. In the mean time, most people will already be cheerfully running OSX 10.5 weeks before.

Rocketman

I was thinking about this the other day, actually.

I think I've lost my Tiger DVD - fortunately I still have the DVD's that came with my iMac... (but not the ones for my powerbook) - but wouldn't it be so much more convenient if you could buy Leopard for 20% less than a physical copy?

1. It's good for the environment (no packaging)
2. Instant software delivery. We could be downloading it as soon as it goes master.
2. You could re-download any time - automatic backup copy whenever you need it

I say they should do it! And soon!

simX
Sep 20, 2007, 07:57 PM
Software update has been tracking unapproved copies of OSX for years. They just have a non-enforcement policy.

That's a lie. Unless you have hard evidence for this, you don't know what you're talking about.

commander.data
Sep 20, 2007, 07:58 PM
If they only went from 9A528 to 9A528d can we assume that it's a pretty minor update? Hopefully this is the last build before it goes Gold. Also, any news on 10.4.11? Apple seems to release the last revision of the old OS close to the launch of the new OS, so 10.4.11 should be coming out any week now.

Wayfarer
Sep 20, 2007, 08:02 PM
Pics or it didn't happen. ;)

mrkramer
Sep 20, 2007, 08:02 PM
but wouldn't it be so much more convenient if you could buy Leopard for 20% less than a physical copy?

but if you download it then how can you install it, you need to boot from a disk and it is a lot easier to use the physical media than to download and burn a bootable copy, especially since the Mac Mini still comes with a combo drive on the low end so owners of that computer could not burn and install it.

ricosuave
Sep 20, 2007, 08:03 PM
That's a lie. Unless you have hard evidence for this, you don't know what you're talking about.

Rocketman is right, my friend's software update would not let him upgrade to the 499 build.

ghall
Sep 20, 2007, 08:05 PM
What's this Leopard thing again?

kungming2
Sep 20, 2007, 08:07 PM
I was thinking about this the other day, actually.

I think I've lost my Tiger DVD - fortunately I still have the DVD's that came with my iMac... (but not the ones for my powerbook) - but wouldn't it be so much more convenient if you could buy Leopard for 20% less than a physical copy?

1. It's good for the environment (no packaging)
2. Instant software delivery. We could be downloading it as soon as it goes master.
2. You could re-download any time - automatic backup copy whenever you need it

I say they should do it! And soon!

There's a lot of people with less-than-stable or less-than-fast internet connections.

shawnce
Sep 20, 2007, 08:07 PM
Rocketman is right, my friend's software update would not let him upgrade to the 499 build.

Which build? If you are talking about a Leopard build then any number of bugs could have prevented an upgrade.

rpp3po
Sep 20, 2007, 08:08 PM
Apple is inhouse testing all new, secret Macs right now for compatibility with Leopard. It would be interesting to check the new build for any left low level drivers or configuration files which could give a hint what's going on behind the curtains.

CJD2112
Sep 20, 2007, 08:12 PM
I was thinking about this the other day, actually.

I think I've lost my Tiger DVD - fortunately I still have the DVD's that came with my iMac... (but not the ones for my powerbook) - but wouldn't it be so much more convenient if you could buy Leopard for 20% less than a physical copy?

1. It's good for the environment (no packaging)
2. Instant software delivery. We could be downloading it as soon as it goes master.
2. You could re-download any time - automatic backup copy whenever you need it

I say they should do it! And soon!

That's an awesome idea, I'd be down for that. Except wouldn't it be about 6-7 gig's? That might be problematic for some people, but not for me =).

Installing Leopard update now on 9A527...

chr1s60
Sep 20, 2007, 08:13 PM
I would like it if they updated us with an official Leopard release date.

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 08:16 PM
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7140/leopardhuntka5.th.jpg (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leopardhuntka5.jpg)

:D we can only hope to rid ourselves of tiger soon... leopard is coming!!

KurtangleTN
Sep 20, 2007, 08:18 PM
There's a lot of people with less-than-stable or less-than-fast internet connections. Well then they'll just not be candidates for a downloadable OS then...

I wish Apple did something like this, the problem is I seem to find this but for the most part the cost isn't much different from the actual physical software (games in my case, to my foggy memory though) I think it should be around 20-30% less.

offwidafairies
Sep 20, 2007, 08:19 PM
I was thinking about this the other day, actually.

I think I've lost my Tiger DVD - fortunately I still have the DVD's that came with my iMac... (but not the ones for my powerbook) - but wouldn't it be so much more convenient if you could buy Leopard for 20% less than a physical copy?

1. It's good for the environment (no packaging)
2. Instant software delivery. We could be downloading it as soon as it goes master.
2. You could re-download any time - automatic backup copy whenever you need it

I say they should do it! And soon!

1. yeah that would be mad - save the environment :)
2. god grant me patience - right now!

ricosuave
Sep 20, 2007, 08:19 PM
Which build? If you are talking about a Leopard build then any number of bugs could have prevented an upgrade.

I think it was 466. But the update said something like the copy was not in their known user database or something to that effect.

Alloye
Sep 20, 2007, 08:20 PM
I think it was 466. But the update said something like the copy was not in their known user database or something to that effect.

9A466 was not upgradable to 9A499 via Software Update.

offwidafairies
Sep 20, 2007, 08:21 PM
I would like it if they updated us with an official Leopard release date.

yeah. and let us know when the next mbp update is ;)

bdkennedy1
Sep 20, 2007, 08:22 PM
I hope Apple has pulled it together in the past month since the last build because the last build was nowhere near ready.

CJD2112
Sep 20, 2007, 08:25 PM
Well, first thing I noticed is...

Safari seems snappier... :p

Other than that, 9A528d doesn't seem much different. Some of the icons seem improved again for cover flow, I noticed a few new desktop wallpapers, such as "Sea Mist Blue" in Black & White. Also, "iPhoto Albums" is a new option in "Desktop" in "System Preferences" (unless I didn't notice it before). Under "iPhoto Albums" there's "Photo's", "Last 12 Months", "Last Import", and "Flagged".

Other than that, Safari isn't crashing as much as it did. Safari was so bad for me in 9A527 I had to move to Firefox.

Running 9A528d on a slave drive on my Mac Pro 2.66.

Oh, and "Video Effects" is much smoother in iChat, doesn't stammer like before and works better overall.

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 08:31 PM
According to that account of 9A528d's stability... It seems like Apple may actually be wrapping Leopard up for retail. I mean, if everything runs smoothly and all the bugs seem to be/are worked out, what's stopping Apple from taking Leopard to Golden Master within a week or so? I for one am really excited either way.

Frisco
Sep 20, 2007, 08:35 PM
Update or not Leopard is still far behind Windows XP, not to mention Vista :eek: Windows XP is the ***** and I hate to admit that.

Leopards finder at least 10 years behind Windows. Compatibility wise, behind--don't even ask!

MrCrowbar
Sep 20, 2007, 08:37 PM
1. yeah that would be mad - save the environment :)
2. god grant me patience - right now!

Well, when you bu software in a store, alls you get is a license to use it in the form of a serial number or similar. The software on the disk is totally outdated and you're usually updating it by dowloading basically the whole thing from the internet.

Great, so I have a big ugly outdated box, a serial number that will probably get lost somehow, a paper wasting users manual (at least, in PDFs, you can search). I remember Half Life 2, took almost a day to unlock it through steam and you had to be online to play the single player.

I have loads of windows keys (Get them for free from our tech school) and I usually end up downloading XP or Vista without the bloat. There are nice versions of XP that don't even take 5 minutes to install via boot camp and hardly take up a gigabyte.

I'm kinda glad iPods don't come packaged with CDs. For Computers it makes sense to ship them tho for recovery and such.

Back to topic: Yay, can't wait for Leopard to get official. My Mac's getting kinda slow lately... shouldn't install so much bloatware ;)

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 08:44 PM
Great, so I have a big ugly outdated box, a serial number that will probably get lost somehow, a paper wasting users manual (at least, in PDFs, you can search).
I was actually reading my Macbook user manual in front of my Macbook one time and pressed command-f while reading to try and search for something... Then I realized... :p

queshy
Sep 20, 2007, 08:50 PM
I'll be very surprised if it isn't released right at the very end of october. but im very excited :D

mikesown
Sep 20, 2007, 08:52 PM
I was thinking about this the other day, actually.

I think I've lost my Tiger DVD - fortunately I still have the DVD's that came with my iMac... (but not the ones for my powerbook) - but wouldn't it be so much more convenient if you could buy Leopard for 20% less than a physical copy?

1. It's good for the environment (no packaging)
2. Instant software delivery. We could be downloading it as soon as it goes master.
2. You could re-download any time - automatic backup copy whenever you need it

I say they should do it! And soon!

As much as you may like this, it 'aint gonna happen, at least not exclusively(at most, they may provide a downloadable version as a backup, but even this is doubtful). The reason is because Apple promotes an "It just works" experience. That experience does not include resetting your router, or resetting your cable modem, or entering in pppoe settings for your DSL modem, or waiting 5-10 hours for an OS to install. Users might get the cheaper version based on price, then get mad at Apple for selling them something that doesn't work. While you may find it convenient, many users lack the technical expertise to do this, and don't have the time nor patience to let an install take 5 hours.

dj4uofa
Sep 20, 2007, 08:59 PM
So I am starting to worry some that Leopard is going to be delayed. The fact that it has been A MONTH since the last update, and that we aren't hearing anything about RC1 or RC-anything, and that one month is needed to get the thing on shelves... it stresses me.

Anyone else worried?

dashiel
Sep 20, 2007, 09:02 PM
hmmm this kind of worries me.

traditionally as software approaches gold master the frequency of updates increases pretty rapidly. once a week, then a couple of times a week then once every couple of days, then release candidate, then gold master.

for each release of OS X so far it has taken right around a month from GM declare to being able to walk in to an apple store any buy it.

that means best case scenario, if leopard is declared GM tomorrow apple would just about make their end of october deadline. i'm really hoping next week we see some more builds arrive. if we don't see a GM declared by next friday i think apple misses october.

DaBrain
Sep 20, 2007, 09:06 PM
All I can say is, I better be wowed!

And if your Not? :rolleyes:

eric_n_dfw
Sep 20, 2007, 09:09 PM
Update or not Leopard is still far behind Windows XP, not to mention Vista :eek: Windows XP is the ***** and I hate to admit that.

Leopards finder at least 10 years behind Windows. Compatibility wise, behind--don't even ask!

I hope that was sarcasm.

masse
Sep 20, 2007, 09:12 PM
but if you download it then how can you install it, you need to boot from a disk and it is a lot easier to use the physical media than to download and burn a bootable copy, especially since the Mac Mini still comes with a combo drive on the low end so owners of that computer could not burn and install it.

step 1: back up data
step 2: format with old discs and create 2 hard drive partitions.
step 3: download and mount osx image onto second hard drive partition
step 4: boot from that partition.

Although this isn't really a solution....just saying that it can be done and it works.

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 09:13 PM
Apple still has about a week and a half until the end of September. By the time I have my iPod Touch (October 3rd), I hope to see the headline "Leopard Gold Master?" on my nifty little MacRumors widget. Otherwise, I agree with people who have said this... Apple may not make the October deadline.

jmpmntwnty3
Sep 20, 2007, 09:14 PM
I hope that was sarcasm.

I second that! I used Mac OS for a few minutes at my local Comp USA and I already love it better than crappy Windows. I didn't even bother to upgrade to Vista back in Feb 'cause I knew sooner or later I'd be getting my macbook pro (yeah, I've been waiting THAT long lol)

Frisco
Sep 20, 2007, 09:15 PM
I hope that was sarcasm.

Yeah it was sarcasm. Sorry I didn't make my sarcasm more clearly. It's been a long week :(

john7jr
Sep 20, 2007, 09:17 PM
9A466 was not upgradable to 9A499 via Software Update.

On top of that there are no serial numbers to even track. When every copy of mac OS X is identical, they have no idea who is who, and what is legal or not.

I'm not advocating piracy at all, but your claim that Apple tracks, and even denies updates to pirated copies is mistaken.

Even Tiger Server, with a serial number, only checks for other copies of that same serial number on the same local subnet. Apple doesn't count your installs.

=)

SolrFlare
Sep 20, 2007, 09:18 PM
Very good update. Leopard definitely looks to be getting close to the end-game.

majordude
Sep 20, 2007, 09:19 PM
Well, first thing I noticed is...

Have you tried Boot Camp? Is it 1.4b or has it evolved? :confused:

Can it run in a virtual mode so I don't have to buy VMware after my trial runs out in five days?! ;)

Does Adobe CS3 work? :o

eric_n_dfw
Sep 20, 2007, 09:20 PM
Yeah it was sarcasm. Sorry I didn't make my sarcasm more clearly. It's been a long week :(

Phew! I was wondering if we needed to pitch in for counseling for you or something! ;)

Seriously though, I've been using Leopard as my primary, work OS for over a month now - I just hope this update fixes some nagging little bugs I've seen & reported. (Of course, I can't go into details per my ADC NDA)

compuguy1088
Sep 20, 2007, 09:22 PM
Well, first thing I noticed is...

Safari seems snappier... :p

Other than that, 9A528d doesn't seem much different. Some of the icons seem improved again for cover flow, I noticed a few new desktop wallpapers, such as "Sea Mist Blue" in Black & White. Also, "iPhoto Albums" is a new option in "Desktop" in "System Preferences" (unless I didn't notice it before). Under "iPhoto Albums" there's "Photo's", "Last 12 Months", "Last Import", and "Flagged".

Other than that, Safari isn't crashing as much as it did. Safari was so bad for me in 9A527 I had to move to Firefox.

Running 9A528d on a slave drive on my Mac Pro 2.66.

Oh, and "Video Effects" is much smoother in iChat, doesn't stammer like before and works better overall.

Are they going to bring the "Blue Glowy" effect back into iChat, by chance?

majordude
Sep 20, 2007, 09:23 PM
Update or not Leopard is still far behind Windows XP, not to mention Vista :eek: Windows XP is the ***** and I hate to admit that.

Mr. Gates, please leave the building and take your troll with you. :rolleyes:

eric_n_dfw
Sep 20, 2007, 09:25 PM
On top of that there are no serial numbers to even track. When every copy of mac OS X is identical, they have no idea who is who, and what is legal or not.

I'm not advocating piracy at all, but your claim that Apple tracks, and even denies updates to pirated copies is mistaken.

Even Tiger Server, with a serial number, only checks for other copies of that same serial number on the same local subnet. Apple doesn't count your installs.

=)
Not that I'm saying I believe they are tracking - they could be though. Every legitimate Leopard copy in the wild had to come from ADC seeding - thus it was downloaded (most likely) from the ADC Connection where you have to sign in with your account. They could be (although I doubt it) putting your id into that dmg file like they do to iTunes downloads.

SolrFlare
Sep 20, 2007, 09:25 PM
I'm noticing everything running a lot perkier too(even more so than todays updated build). In terms of "speed" I think its pretty much the same, but I'm not noticing the occasional hitching in certain areas like I did before. IE the performance seems very consistent now as it is when running Tiger on the same system.

btaussie
Sep 20, 2007, 09:25 PM
X = Xeroxing
P = People

V = Very
I = Incompatiable
S = Stuff
T = That's
A = Atrocious

L = Let's
E = Evolve
O = Operating Systems
P = Putting
A = Apple
R = Reaching
D = Desktops

OK I suck at acronyms but you get the point.

compuguy1088
Sep 20, 2007, 09:25 PM
I was thinking about this the other day, actually.

I think I've lost my Tiger DVD - fortunately I still have the DVD's that came with my iMac... (but not the ones for my powerbook) - but wouldn't it be so much more convenient if you could buy Leopard for 20% less than a physical copy?

1. It's good for the environment (no packaging)
2. Instant software delivery. We could be downloading it as soon as it goes master.
2. You could re-download any time - automatic backup copy whenever you need it

I say they should do it! And soon!

I wouldn't mind having an electronic copy, download the iso, and burn it and install, sounds easy enough to me. They just have to make an easy to use downloader, kind of like steam, in a way.

lord patton
Sep 20, 2007, 09:26 PM
I'm sure optical disc manufacturing has improved in the 2+ years since Tiger's release. Apple will certainly need some time from declaring GM to having product in the stores, but I doubt it would need a month like for Tiger.

At any rate, it's going to be close, innit?

Littleodie914
Sep 20, 2007, 09:27 PM
Well, first thing I noticed is...

Safari seems snappier... :p

Other than that, 9A528d doesn't seem much different. Some of the icons seem improved again for cover flow, I noticed a few new desktop wallpapers, such as "Sea Mist Blue" in Black & White. Also, "iPhoto Albums" is a new option in "Desktop" in "System Preferences" (unless I didn't notice it before). Under "iPhoto Albums" there's "Photo's", "Last 12 Months", "Last Import", and "Flagged".

Other than that, Safari isn't crashing as much as it did. Safari was so bad for me in 9A527 I had to move to Firefox.

Running 9A528d on a slave drive on my Mac Pro 2.66.

Oh, and "Video Effects" is much smoother in iChat, doesn't stammer like before and works better overall.The "Sea Mist Blue" was in 9a527, but other than that I agree. Safari was bad until now. :)

polishmacuser
Sep 20, 2007, 09:28 PM
man i really hope that leopard gets released and that it become perfect because looking at these updates i cant really see that there really ready for october since its already the end of semptember almost

majordude
Sep 20, 2007, 09:29 PM
That's a lie. Unless you have hard evidence for this, you don't know what you're talking about.

Geez. Lay off the meth or try decaf (orange ring) tomorrow morning. :eek:

Brendon Bauer
Sep 20, 2007, 09:43 PM
Have faith.... It's coming :D. I feel like a little kid waiting for Christmas. Speaking of Christmas... I can't wait for that too!

BWhaler
Sep 20, 2007, 09:45 PM
anyone have the sad and sneaking feeling Leopard is going to be a train wreck?

Maybe it was the comment from Adobe.

Maybe it is the disgraceful streak of poor decisions and terrible quality Apple has been on of late.

Will Leopard be the final straw? Does Jobs even work at Apple anymore?

Something is wrong/different/off. I hate to say it, but I am sure it's true...

CJD2112
Sep 20, 2007, 09:45 PM
Have you tried Boot Camp? Is it 1.4b or has it evolved? :confused:

Can it run in a virtual mode so I don't have to buy VMware after my trial runs out in five days?! ;)

Does Adobe CS3 work? :o

Adobe CS3 does work, used that to alter the screen captures.

Boot Camp is version 2.0, haven't used it yet.

Someone asked about iChat 4.0 having glowing blue things, don't know about that. It does have "screen sharing" and it carries over 4.0's "invisible" mode as well as the ability to log into simultaneous accounts (such as AIM and .Mac).

Some screen shots:

System Version:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/SystemVersion.jpg

Boot Camp 2.0:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/BootCamp2.jpg

Desktop Wallpapers:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/DesktopWallpapers.jpg

iChat 4.0:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/iChat4.jpg

Brendon Bauer
Sep 20, 2007, 09:48 PM
You might want to blur out the other part with your name in it :rolleyes:. Just a thought, heh.

(under the title of the system profiler window)

Edit: Hehe that was a quick catch! I still know your name though :D.

No more dups of the pics...

CJD2112
Sep 20, 2007, 09:50 PM
You might want to blur out the other part with your name in it :rolleyes:. Just a thought, heh.

(under the title of the system profiler window)

I did, but Photobucket didn't update the photo properly. I caught it JUST in time LOL.

sohaness
Sep 20, 2007, 09:54 PM
when will the aqua scrollbars go away! :(

Littleodie914
Sep 20, 2007, 09:54 PM
Speaking of all the slight changes, does anybody know if you can use the cool video backdrops in iChat yet? You'd think if they were planning on releasing it in a month or so, it would be showing up in the developer builds. :confused:

unity
Sep 20, 2007, 09:54 PM
anyone have the sad and sneaking feeling Leopard is going to be a train wreck?

Maybe it was the comment from Adobe.

Maybe it is the disgraceful streak of poor decisions and terrible quality Apple has been on of late.

Will Leopard be the final straw? Does Jobs even work at Apple anymore?

Something is wrong/different/off. I hate to say it, but I am sure it's true...


I would hate to find out that this would be the case. I have been buying Apple products for some time and a user forever - I have a Lisa, etc.... but my first buy was an Apple IIC+.

Anyway, lately it seems there are problems with EVERY recent product release. Either is physical, the screens, or software. Im not saying its major, but its like they are rushing things out the doors a little too quick.

If I recall, the latest iMacs and iPods - and even the iPhone, have had software/firmware updates VERY quickly after being released.

The flip side though, one could say they are being diligent and staying on top of problems with the quick updates. But its a little unnerving when updates are flying out the door so fast. Look at the iTunes 7.4 updates! :)

I guess either way Leopard will come out and it will be made up to snuff if needed. I am more concerned with system requirements. Generally OS release have improved speed of my computer. But I have the feeling my TiBook is reaching end of life :(

richard.mac
Sep 20, 2007, 09:56 PM
finally someone who posts pics with a graphite appearance! looks great!

Brendon Bauer
Sep 20, 2007, 09:57 PM
I wonder if they're thinking it's better to get things out the door on time and fix things right after. Granted, for hardware, that's bad. But for software it really isn't a problem. It just means you get your product a week or two earlier at the cost of having to update your software (which is quite easy).

Or they are degrading in quality over time... I like to think it's the former :D.

majordude
Sep 20, 2007, 09:57 PM
Hehe that was a quick catch! I still know your name though :D.

There will be a black helicopter to pick you up tomorrow morning at 5:30 sharp. Bring donuts.

- Big Brother.

Wayfarer
Sep 20, 2007, 09:58 PM
anyone have the sad and sneaking feeling Leopard is going to be a train wreck?

Personally, NO. Why would you think that?

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 09:58 PM
Everything in those screenshots looks gorgeous. I honestly cannot wait for Leopard now, with all these teasers, news, screenshots, etc. :D And yes, Apple may be pushing things out the door quickly, but they have been keeping on top of the updates and such. This looks promising and stable.

Brendon Bauer
Sep 20, 2007, 10:00 PM
There will be a black helicopter to pick you up tomorrow morning at 5:30 sharp. Bring donuts.

- Big Brother.

lol.

CJD2112
Sep 20, 2007, 10:03 PM
Speaking of all the slight changes, does anybody know if you can use the cool video backdrops in iChat yet? You'd think if they were planning on releasing it in a month or so, it would be showing up in the developer builds. :confused:

Yup. There are 4 pages of iChat video effects, with the last page being custom backgrounds that are user defined. In the previous build, 9A527, the video effects needed the user to step out of the camera range so iSight could register the background. Then the user steps into the frame with the superimposed effect. However, it was spotty as the busier the background of the room the less likely the effect to work. Seems the corrected some of this with iChat 4.0 in this build.

Screen shots of iChat 4.0 video effects:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/iChat1.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/iChat2.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/iChat3.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/iChat4-1.jpg

Orng
Sep 20, 2007, 10:04 PM
I was actually reading my Macbook user manual in front of my Macbook one time and pressed command-f while reading to try and search for something... Then I realized... :p

I can relate. I was going through the handwritten notes of an essay and I tried to "command-C" a block of text so I could paste it into my working draft.

I don't recall how I thought I must have highlighted the bit of text I wanted, I think it was probably 3am.

Wayfarer
Sep 20, 2007, 10:05 PM
Yup. There are 4 pages of iChat video effects, with the last page being custom backgrounds that are user defined. In the previous build, 9A527, the video effects needed the user to step out of the camera range so iSight could register the background. Then the user steps into the frame with the superimposed effect. However, it was spotty as the busier the background of the room the less likely the effect to work. Seems the corrected some of this with iChat 4.0 in this build.

Screen shots of iChat 4.0 video effects...

Sweet pics! Also, we all know now what you look like. Heehee... ;)

Brendon Bauer
Sep 20, 2007, 10:06 PM
Sweet pics! Also, we all know now what you look like. Heehee... ;)

/me calls the Apple police with his name and picture
/me collects reward

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 10:07 PM
Yup. There are 4 pages of iChat video effects, with the last page being custom backgrounds that are user defined. In the previous build, 9A527, the video effects needed the user to step out of the camera range so iSight could register the background. Then the user steps into the frame with the superimposed effect. However, it was spotty as the busier the background of the room the less likely the effect to work. Seems the corrected some of this with iChat 4.0 in this build.

Screen shots of iChat 4.0 video effects:

[X]
[X]
[X]
[X]

Awesome. :eek:

majordude
Sep 20, 2007, 10:08 PM
Sweet pics! Also, we all know now what you look like. Heehee... ;)

That, we already knew. We just didn't know what his walls looked like. Clouds, fish, Yosemite... we're on it.

- Big Brother

TurboSC
Sep 20, 2007, 10:10 PM
Oh please oh please don't be delayed again... I've been waiting for so long :(

CJD2112
Sep 20, 2007, 10:11 PM
/me calls the Apple police with his name and picture
/me collects reward

That, we already knew. We just didn't know what his walls looked like. Clouds, fish, Yosemite... we're on it.

- Big Brother

rofl That's what I get for rushing. Next time, re-check after Photoshopping before posting lol...

powderblue17
Sep 20, 2007, 10:12 PM
anyone have the sad and sneaking feeling Leopard is going to be a train wreck?

Maybe it was the comment from Adobe.

Maybe it is the disgraceful streak of poor decisions and terrible quality Apple has been on of late.

Will Leopard be the final straw? Does Jobs even work at Apple anymore?

Something is wrong/different/off. I hate to say it, but I am sure it's true...

I don't know what your talking about because Adobe has been making comments like that for years. I guess you forgot the many times they pretty much threatened to leave the Mac platform. Adobe is afraid that Apple might try to compete with them in the graphics market since they pretty much have a monopoly which in turn leads to a love-hate relationship between the two.

Also you mention Apple's quality issues. Well lets see how well every other company produces multi-touch display products. Oh wait, no other company does that. You seem to think complaining about Apple's quality control is something new. I've seen it on here since I started reading in 2003 and it's nothing new.

Thertel88
Sep 20, 2007, 10:12 PM
The date in which Leopard has been said to be released is Tuesday October 31st, 2007. The Official Release date will be announced on October the 3rd

CJD2112
Sep 20, 2007, 10:15 PM
finally someone who posts pics with a graphite appearance! looks great!

I always go for graphite, can't stand the traffic lights :D

Wayfarer
Sep 20, 2007, 10:15 PM
Wild Guess: Wednesday October 31, 2007, 11:59PM PST. :rolleyes:

mrkramer
Sep 20, 2007, 10:16 PM
The date in which Leopard has been said to be released is Tuesday October 31st, 2007. The Official Release date will be announced on October the 3rd

so we will never get it, since there is no Tuesday October 31st, 2007.

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 10:17 PM
The date in which Leopard has been said to be released is Tuesday October 31st, 2007. The Official Release date will be announced on October the 3rd
yeah, i pretty much call BS. :rolleyes: it's wednesday, anyways.

zkmusa
Sep 20, 2007, 10:17 PM
Just updated to 9a528d.. everything seems to be fine and stable EXCEPT my USB hard drives (with a GUID partition table) will not mount. System profiler recognizes them as USB drives, but they will not show up in Disk Utility nor will they show up on the Finder. I'm not finding anything of use in my logs either.

Any other developers having the same problem?

CJD2112
Sep 20, 2007, 10:20 PM
Just updated to 9a528d.. everything seems to be fine and stable EXCEPT my USB hard drives (with a GUID partition table) will not mount. System profiler recognizes them as USB drives, but they will not show up in Disk Utility nor will they show up on the Finder. I'm not finding anything of use in my logs either.

Any other developers having the same problem?

Not here. Plugged in a jump drive and an external USB HD, mounted perfectly.

compuguy1088
Sep 20, 2007, 10:20 PM
Adobe CS3 does work, used that to alter the screen captures.

Boot Camp is version 2.0, haven't used it yet.

Someone asked about iChat 4.0 having glowing blue things, don't know about that. It does have "screen sharing" and it carries over 4.0's "invisible" mode as well as the ability to log into simultaneous accounts (such as AIM and .Mac).



The "Blue Glowie" effect was an iChat effect, that was shown at a keynote at the beginning of the year. I heard in a post of a previous build that they removed it, so I was wondering if it would make a stealth comeback. I would love when Leopard comes out to look like Ben Kenobi via the force.

Brendon Bauer
Sep 20, 2007, 10:21 PM
Can you all shut up about Leopard so I can concentrate on my Chemistry homework? :rolleyes:

Brendon Bauer
Sep 20, 2007, 10:22 PM
The "Blue Glowie" effect was an iChat effect, that was shown at a keynote at the beginning of the year. I heard in a post of a previous build that they removed it, so I was wondering if it would make a stealth comeback. I would love when Leopard comes out to look like Ben Kenobi via the force.

Oh do you mean the holograph effect?

compuguy1088
Sep 20, 2007, 10:25 PM
Oh do you mean the holograph effect?

Yea! That! I think of it as the "Blue Glowie" effect, but that's just me :)....

CJD2112
Sep 20, 2007, 10:25 PM
Can you all shut up about Leopard so I can concentrate on my Chemistry homework? :rolleyes:

No :p

Yea! That! I think of it as the "Blue Glowie" effect, but that's just me :)....

Ah, that, yeah, it's called "Glow" now.

Wayfarer
Sep 20, 2007, 10:25 PM
Can you all shut up about Leopard so I can concentrate on my Chemistry homework? :rolleyes:

AND could you all shut up about Leopard so I can go to sleep and get up early to concentrate on my Physics homework? :cool:

Sbrocket
Sep 20, 2007, 10:27 PM
Can you all shut up about Leopard so I can concentrate on my Chemistry homework? :rolleyes:

Heh, Differential Equations here...new with Leopard: improved preventing of students from doing their homework.

compuguy1088
Sep 20, 2007, 10:27 PM
Can you all shut up about Leopard so I can concentrate on my Chemistry homework? :rolleyes:

No! :P And from a completely random question: Your not related to Jack Bauer, arn't you? ;)

Heh, Differential Equations here...new with Leopard: improved preventing of students from doing their homework.

But I already have plenty of that with Tiger :P

Brendon Bauer
Sep 20, 2007, 10:30 PM
No! And from a completely random question: Your not related to Jack Bauer, arnt you? ;)

I am not at liberty to say... ;)

HailToTheVictor
Sep 20, 2007, 10:30 PM
There's a lot of people with less-than-stable or less-than-fast internet connections.

Sucks to be them, but i'm alright:p

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 10:30 PM
Heh, Differential Equations here...new with Leopard: improved preventing of students from doing their homework.
Japanese and Calc here... but I've got tomorrow morning to do everything! :p

compuguy1088
Sep 20, 2007, 10:31 PM
I am not at liberty to say... ;)

Hmm, very interesting...:D

Japanese and Calc here... but I've got tomorrow morning to do everything! :p

I have beyond tomorrow, and the weekend! :)

6502usetabe
Sep 20, 2007, 10:32 PM
When can I get Leopard? Been tooooooooo long with PC need to get back to earth. Who has the latest on launch time.

HailToTheVictor
Sep 20, 2007, 10:32 PM
Heh, Differential Equations here...new with Leopard: improved preventing of students from doing their homework.

If Leopard could take the LSAT for me in a week that would fantastic. Wow, two post in a row, sorry guys, it's been a long week.

Wayfarer
Sep 20, 2007, 10:32 PM
G'night guys! I shall dream lucidly about experiencing Leopard, hands-on.

LOLZ.

Brendon Bauer
Sep 20, 2007, 10:35 PM
Ok, me too. G'night.

compuguy1088
Sep 20, 2007, 10:36 PM
When can I get Leopard? Been tooooooooo long with PC need to get back to earth. Who has the latest on launch time.

It will be in your dreams

Ok, me too. G'night.

G'night from me as well!

bananas
Sep 20, 2007, 10:37 PM
all you people dreaming of downloadable leopard: imagine 100 000 people clicking "download now" button in online apple store at the same moment Leopard is released. Each of them downloadin gigabytes worth of OS X, that's a lot of bandwidth and it ain't free.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 10:39 PM
all you people dreaming of downloadable leopard: imagine 100 000 people clicking "download now" button in online apple store at the same moment Leopard is released. Each of them downloadin gigabytes worth of OS X, that's a lot of bandwidth and it ain't free.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't think it's gonna happen.
it's pretty much impossible. all we can do is hope Leopard is in stores by Halloween. otherwise... public uproar. riots. disorder... chaos! :eek:

CJD2112
Sep 20, 2007, 10:40 PM
Signing off as well. Thanks for the good laughs guys. 'Night. :)

polishmacuser
Sep 20, 2007, 10:54 PM
Yup. There are 4 pages of iChat video effects, with the last page being custom backgrounds that are user defined. In the previous build, 9A527, the video effects needed the user to step out of the camera range so iSight could register the background. Then the user steps into the frame with the superimposed effect. However, it was spotty as the busier the background of the room the less likely the effect to work. Seems the corrected some of this with iChat 4.0 in this build.

Screen shots of iChat 4.0 video effects:

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/iChat1.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/iChat2.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/iChat3.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l149/cjd2112/iChat4-1.jpg

hey i see you have blu ray but one question does it work in leopard and can you watch blu ray movies in leopard?

gleepskip
Sep 20, 2007, 10:55 PM
all you people dreaming of downloadable leopard: imagine 100 000 people clicking "download now" button in online apple store at the same moment Leopard is released. Each of them downloadin gigabytes worth of OS X, that's a lot of bandwidth and it ain't free.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't think it's gonna happen.

If only someone would invent a means of distributing the load of downloading Leopard across the 100,000 clients instead of everyone downloading directly from Apple... OH WAIT! There's that BitTorrent thing... :p

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 11:00 PM
If only someone would invent a means of distributing the load of downloading Leopard across the 100,000 clients instead of everyone downloading directly from Apple... OH WAIT! There's that BitTorrent thing... :p
Except that's illegal... :rolleyes: lol. Still, if Apple found a legal way to do that after people payed for it... Like a certain key or something specifically generated for every purchaser, that might work.

Eidorian
Sep 20, 2007, 11:01 PM
If only someone would invent a means of distributing the load of downloading Leopard across the 100,000 clients instead of everyone downloading directly from Apple... OH WAIT! There's that Avalanche thing... :pI fixed it for you.

akac
Sep 20, 2007, 11:02 PM
What's weird is an Apple friend of mine said that they are in 55x builds internally. They were at 53x the day after 527 became public.

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 11:04 PM
What's weird is an Apple friend of mine said that they are in 55x builds internally. They were at 53x the day after 527 became public.
...Which could mean that Leopard is closer than we think. Or you're just screwing with our heads. :p

stoid
Sep 20, 2007, 11:04 PM
Except that's illegal... :rolleyes: lol. Still, if Apple found a legal way to do that after people payed for it... Like a certain key or something specifically generated for every purchaser, that might work.

BitTorrent is perfectly legal, and is used for many legal distributions included many of Blizzard's downloads. Granted, there is a large subset of users that trade copyrighted material over BitTorrent protocols, and I don't know if there is a way to require a person to have paid for the .torrent file before they download the content. But provided Apple could get their end figured out BitTorrent would be a perfectly acceptable way to distribute Leopard.

ventro
Sep 20, 2007, 11:05 PM
How about some links to those new wallpapers?

Eidorian
Sep 20, 2007, 11:07 PM
Except that's illegal... :rolleyes: lol. Still, if Apple found a legal way to do that after people payed for it... Like a certain key or something specifically generated for every purchaser, that might work.Multiple Linux distributions would like to talk with you.

B. Hunter
Sep 20, 2007, 11:07 PM
I have the green light from work to purchase a new MBP.
The problem is that I need to buy it this weekend.

Any thoughts out there on the space requirements Leopard will need?
I will have to buy this later and install it.

gleepskip
Sep 20, 2007, 11:10 PM
Except that's illegal... :rolleyes: lol. Still, if Apple found a legal way to do that after people payed for it... Like a certain key or something specifically generated for every purchaser, that might work.

That's what I assumed would be part of it: a per-user/family/site key. The BT part would be officially supported by Apple. They would provide a BT client or you could use your own.

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 11:12 PM
BitTorrent is perfectly legal, and is used for many legal distributions included many of Blizzard's downloads. Granted, there is a large subset of users that trade copyrighted material over BitTorrent protocols, and I don't know if there is a way to require a person to have paid for the .torrent file before they download the content. But provided Apple could get their end figured out BitTorrent would be a perfectly acceptable way to distribute Leopard.
True, but I was referring to the subset. :D I don't doubt Apple could figure out a way to do that, but it's highly unlikely, seeing now that it's more likely that Apple will ship Leopard in nice little boxes as usual. You never know, though... That would actually be a very efficient way to distribute Leopard, as long as they provide sufficient instructions for the less technologically-versed users. I could definitely see Gold Master dropping in a week or so, though.

How about some links to those new wallpapers?
I could be wrong, but that may be prohibited due to the NDA... :confused:

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 11:13 PM
Multiple Linux distributions would like to talk with you.
Eh?

Luap
Sep 20, 2007, 11:22 PM
For the record.. Leopard beta 9a527 has the same builds of Bootcamp (V2) and iChat (V4, 589) as Leopard Beta 9a528d.

Eidorian
Sep 20, 2007, 11:24 PM
Eh?Most distributions use BitTorrent as an alternative to normal hosting.

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 11:25 PM
Most distributions use BitTorrent as an alternative to normal hosting.
Oh, ok. I figured it was something to that effect, I just wasn't sure. :p

For the record.. Leopard beta 9a527 has the same builds of Bootcamp (V2) and iChat (V4, 589) as Leopard Beta 9a528d.
Well something changed in iChat, because it's way more stable and actually works now, so Apple must've just changed some really minor things in it. And :D I'm kind of looking forward to not having to download Bootcamp anymore.

Eidorian
Sep 20, 2007, 11:26 PM
Oh, ok. I figured it was something to that effect, I just wasn't sure. :phttp://osmirrors.cerias.purdue.edu/pub/ubuntu-releases/7.04/ubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso.torrent

majordude
Sep 20, 2007, 11:29 PM
hey i see you have blu ray but one question does it work in leopard and can you watch blu ray movies in leopard?

Geez... dude. Do you really have to quote 26" of photos to make a one sentence response?! :mad:

chrisdazzo
Sep 20, 2007, 11:32 PM
http://osmirrors.cerias.purdue.edu/pub/ubuntu-releases/7.04/ubuntu-7.04-desktop-i386.iso.torrent
Aha. Gotcha.

Well, I, like many others, have to attend classes tomorrow, so I bid you all farewell, and as more news of Leopard appears, expect to see me on the forums. :D Goodnight, all!

Sbrocket
Sep 20, 2007, 11:41 PM
What's weird is an Apple friend of mine said that they are in 55x builds internally. They were at 53x the day after 527 became public.

Don't worry, this won't be the only Leopard news this week. ;)

majordude
Sep 20, 2007, 11:47 PM
I could be wrong, but that may be prohibited due to the NDA... :confused:

Ned? Ned Flanders? Why not click that little triangle (http://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/buttons/report.gif) and ask? :rolleyes:

Mr. Dee
Sep 20, 2007, 11:54 PM
I have the green light from work to purchase a new MBP.
The problem is that I need to buy it this weekend.

Any thoughts out there on the space requirements Leopard will need?
I will have to buy this later and install it.

If you are buying a brand new MacBook Pro, I am sure the last thing you need to worry about is the system requirements. I think the new MacBook Pros come with like 120 to 200 GB hard disk configurations. According to the Developer notes in the most recent build I have seen, Leopard uses 7 GBs of disk space, 12 GBs if you install the developer tools. I am not sure, but the developer previews could contain debug code, by the time it hits GM, the disk space could be less. But, buying a new system today or this weekend will run Leopard like a champ when it comes out, especially with default 2 GBs of RAM in the MacBook Pros.

Leopards minimum system requirements:
800 MHz PPC G4 or Intel
256 MBs of RAM

So, even some of the most old Macs could probably get a new lease on life. In fact, the 800 MHz is considered an artificial requirement, a particular file on the Leopard DVD can be edited through Terminal or third party tools so it can run on slower G4's or even G3 systems. Although, those who have attempted running it on G3's experience lots of performance issues and application crashes and incompatibility.

HTHs

rog
Sep 21, 2007, 12:14 AM
I'm ready to bet a delay announcement is imminent. MWSF release anyone? They are way behind schedule and should be having daily updates at this point if they're shipping within 5 weeks.

Simmerl
Sep 21, 2007, 12:39 AM
So it's still Aqua scrollbars ...

mogema
Sep 21, 2007, 01:07 AM
Seeing as I've been using 527 for a couple of weeks with no issues whatsoever, I would think this build is just as good.

527 was alright as far as stability, and so far so has 528d. However, it STILL does not have functioning 802.1X and VPN!! These will HAVE to be completed before any type of release candidate can be named.

dejo
Sep 21, 2007, 01:07 AM
Anyone else getting 'The update “Leopard Software Update Client” can’t be installed. Bad address' message when trying to do the Software Update?

tibi08
Sep 21, 2007, 01:54 AM
How long does it take to add a drop shadow to the dock, and some stationery to Mail?

macfan1138
Sep 21, 2007, 02:01 AM
Sorry guys -- the last seed (9A527) wasn't all that stable and I'm not impressed with the minor changes made thus far.

This thing is not ready for prime time.
:(

sweetaction
Sep 21, 2007, 02:08 AM
the new os is great. wish i didnt have to keep erasing 10.5 and reinstalling 10.4 before sending my macbook in for yet another hardware repair. they dont like seeing 10.5 on your mac... yet.

MrCrowbar
Sep 21, 2007, 02:10 AM
How long does it take to add a drop shadow to the dock, and some stationery to Mail?

Dock's drop shadow is likely to be activated through command line or tools like onyx. It's like this in Tiger.

doemel
Sep 21, 2007, 02:31 AM
Not that I'm saying I believe they are tracking - they could be though. Every legitimate Leopard copy in the wild had to come from ADC seeding - thus it was downloaded (most likely) from the ADC Connection where you have to sign in with your account. They could be (although I doubt it) putting your id into that dmg file like they do to iTunes downloads.

Well, I hope you realize that the dev seeds are an entirely different matter from the end user product when it comes to anti piracy measures Apple is willing to take. One reason why they want control of their dev seeds is because they don't want details about them to get out in the wild too soon. As for the release product, Apple has most certainly not been tracking the legitimacy of OS X (client). If they're smart, they'll continue to tolerate OS X piracy. Unlike Microsoft, Apple also sells hardware. Plus, just look at the pathetic anti-piracy schemes Microsoft, Adobe and others have come up with:

- they have all been broken withing weeks, sometimes days of release, in rare cases even before the final product shipped
- they create endless headaches for many customers who legitimately obtained their licenses (remember the recent WGA server outage?)
- in general they do NOT give customers any advantage in return for the restrictions, unlike what the software companies would like you to think (I'm still waiting for Adobe floating licenses for small businesses, for instance)

All in all it's just one big fiasco. Apple should keep OS X out of those muddy waters.

Sbrocket
Sep 21, 2007, 02:32 AM
Sorry guys -- the last seed (9A527) wasn't all that stable and I'm not impressed with the minor changes made thus far.

This thing is not ready for prime time.
:(

The update that went out today was not the latest seed - there's been a lot of development between 9A527 and 9A5**. You'll find out the "**" sometime in the next couple days, at most a week. ;)

Just (continue to) be patient.

Krevnik
Sep 21, 2007, 02:37 AM
Rocketman is right, my friend's software update would not let him upgrade to the 499 build.

499 wasn't available via Software Update... and 499 had a bug that prevented you from using Software update unless you knew how to work around it.

Hombre
Sep 21, 2007, 02:38 AM
The update that went out today was not the latest seed - there's been a lot of development between 9A527 and 9A5**. You'll find out the "**" sometime in the next couple days, at most a week. ;)

Just (continue to) be patient.

Sure. Like... there have been far more advanced builds than 4K78, right?

Krevnik
Sep 21, 2007, 02:39 AM
The update that went out today was not the latest seed - there's been a lot of development between 9A527 and 9A5**. You'll find out the "**" sometime in the next couple days, at most a week. ;)

Just (continue to) be patient.

Yeah, but considering the rate I am still filing new bugs, I am not holding my breath at this point...

Sbrocket
Sep 21, 2007, 02:44 AM
Yeah, but considering the rate I am still filing new bugs, I am not holding my breath at this point...

Of course you realize that if there was no cutoff for bugs, they would never finish development. That's not to say that you aren't submitting them, but just because you submit them doesn't mean that they're necessarily on the list of P2 or higher bugs to fix.

macfan1138
Sep 21, 2007, 02:47 AM
The update that went out today was not the latest seed - there's been a lot of development between 9A527 and 9A5**. You'll find out the "**" sometime in the next couple days, at most a week. ;)

Just (continue to) be patient.

I've tried to be patient, but the last seed was actually a step backwards in stability. I've been waiting for the past two weeks in hopes of getting something that doesn't crash constantly (and I'm not even pushing it). I'm still waiting for something that is reasonably stable.

I don't have a lot of confidence in Apple right now. Springing a stable release is not a good thing (assuming it happens).

In the past hour I've crashed at least 3 times. Number of times I've crashed in Tiger in 2007? Zero.

Sbrocket
Sep 21, 2007, 02:52 AM
I've tried to be patient, but the last seed was actually a step backwards in stability. I've been waiting for the past two weeks in hopes of getting something that doesn't crash constantly (and I'm not even pushing it). I'm still waiting for something that is reasonably stable.

I don't have a lot of confidence in Apple right now. Springing a stable release is not a good thing (assuming it happens).

In the past hour I've crashed at least 3 times. Number of times I've crashed in Tiger in 2007? Zero.

You can't even consider this to be a full seed. Its more like a tiny bump, although why it was done I have no idea. The next seed (9A550s range, unless they make some last minute changes and it goes into the 60s) is just around around the corner.

eflaten
Sep 21, 2007, 03:04 AM
As I understand Apples drivers to their grapic cards have ben bad, and still are. Or at least not as good as thei could bee. Anyone know of any special effort to get topnotch grapic performance in Leopard?

Game and CAD interested.

/dev/toaster
Sep 21, 2007, 03:06 AM
You can't even consider this to be a full seed. Its more like a tiny bump, although why it was done I have no idea. The next seed (9A550s range, unless they make some last minute changes and it goes into the 60s) is just around around the corner.

How does the numbers work on the seeds ? Everyone else uses build numbers, why does Apple have this crazy scheme.

Sbrocket
Sep 21, 2007, 03:38 AM
How does the numbers work on the seeds ? Everyone else uses build numbers, why does Apple have this crazy scheme.

I have no idea where 9A528d falls in the scheme of things, but other than that the build numbers increment upwards in the typical fashion. :p

mdriftmeyer
Sep 21, 2007, 03:42 AM
I was thinking about this the other day, actually.

I think I've lost my Tiger DVD - fortunately I still have the DVD's that came with my iMac... (but not the ones for my powerbook) - but wouldn't it be so much more convenient if you could buy Leopard for 20% less than a physical copy?

1. It's good for the environment (no packaging)
2. Instant software delivery. We could be downloading it as soon as it goes master.
2. You could re-download any time - automatic backup copy whenever you need it

I say they should do it! And soon!

Of course this doesn't help if your system isn't yet configured for the Internet or you're on a pre-existing system with a newly formatted drive and you need physical media.

This printless version works great for Network admins.

When Apple caters first to the Enterprise we'll all be dead.

CmdrLaForge
Sep 21, 2007, 03:56 AM
Hello guys,

I would love to know how Leopard runs on a G4 iBook 1.42 GHz 1 gig RAM ?

I just installed iPhoto 7 and it doesn't run very well. I wish I had kept the old version.

Thanks for feedback
LaForge

aLoC
Sep 21, 2007, 04:04 AM
Anyone else getting 'The update “Leopard Software Update Client” can’t be installed. Bad address' message when trying to do the Software Update?

Yes, I got that. I deleted the contents of /Library/Packages and ran Software Update again and it worked.

Wayfarer
Sep 21, 2007, 04:45 AM
How long does it take to add a drop shadow to the dock, and some stationery to Mail?

Blatant sarcasm, no?

BKKbill
Sep 21, 2007, 05:11 AM
Can you all shut up about Leopard so I can concentrate on my Chemistry homework? :rolleyes:

Sorry

Manic Mouse
Sep 21, 2007, 05:31 AM
I just want Leopard already, I've been waiting over a year for it and I'm getting impatient...

Stacks, spaces, time machine. It's all so awesome!

Wayfarer
Sep 21, 2007, 06:01 AM
I will be especially looking forward to the rounded contextual menus and subtle blue gradients in Leopard.

Gimme gimme gumdrops!

Schtumple
Sep 21, 2007, 06:07 AM
I'm going for it's gunna be delayed again, I can't see it getting completed in time, either that, or they'll announce it as finished on october 31st 11.59PM but it won't ship for 2 months... for an undisclosed reason :rolleyes:

Dagless
Sep 21, 2007, 06:21 AM
anyone have the sad and sneaking feeling Leopard is going to be a train wreck?

Maybe it was the comment from Adobe.

Maybe it is the disgraceful streak of poor decisions and terrible quality Apple has been on of late.

Will Leopard be the final straw? Does Jobs even work at Apple anymore?

Something is wrong/different/off. I hate to say it, but I am sure it's true...

You know, I think you're a bit right.

The last beautiful thing Apple produced (IMO) was the 5G iPod and the new iMacs. MacBook, that new keyboard, Mighty Mouse, all the new iPods (cept the touch/iPhone) just don't have the same Apple look to them. I'm really not keen on some of their latest designs.

But I don't think they can mess up with Leopard. Take Tiger and add some powerful applications (Backups, Core Animation et al) and it can't fail.

Something is off though.

wescravn
Sep 21, 2007, 06:21 AM
Leopard seems pretty stable, software update upgraded 9A577 to 9A578d release flawlessly, and it seems to function ok.

Much better than the earlier betas which were hit and miss.:p

Fabio_gsilva
Sep 21, 2007, 06:30 AM
There's a lot of people with less-than-stable or less-than-fast internet connections.

But, it could be an option.

nja247
Sep 21, 2007, 07:10 AM
Question for you all also running Leopard, when you're in disk utility trying to 'restore' or copy a disk image, do you have issue selecting the destination drive if its a internal DVD or CD drive? For instance, I can drag and drop my source to the appropriate box, but if I try to drag and drop my MATSHITA DVD-R drive to the destination box as I used to in Tiger it simply selects the MATSHITA drive and I'm effectively unable to restore to my drive via disk utility in Leopard.

Am I being a retard or is this actually different than in Tiger?

Orng
Sep 21, 2007, 07:46 AM
Heh, Differential Equations here...new with Leopard: improved preventing of students from doing their homework.

That feature goes back at least to Panther!

But, 4 years on, I can no longer blame Panther for the fact that I'm still working on my thesis.


Leopards minimum system requirements:
800 MHz PPC G4 or Intel
256 MBs of RAM

So, even some of the most old Macs could probably get a new lease on life. In fact, the 800 MHz is considered an artificial requirement, a particular file on the Leopard DVD can be edited through Terminal or third party tools so it can run on slower G4's or even G3 systems. Although, those who have attempted running it on G3's experience lots of performance issues and application crashes and incompatibility.


Good, so all I need is a new HD and my G4 Quicksilver will be revitalized: and ready to give to my brother when I get my MBP. That'll make him a switcher. A G4 running leopard will be a huge improvement over his Pentium2 with Win98.

But obviously there's not much hope for my G3 Wallstreet powerbook... which these days I only fire up when I want to get nostalgic about OS9. Happens more than I'd like to admit, really. Look at the finder guy in the startup sequence, he looks so happy!

BKKbill
Sep 21, 2007, 07:55 AM
I've tried to be patient, but the last seed was actually a step backwards in stability. I've been waiting for the past two weeks in hopes of getting something that doesn't crash constantly (and I'm not even pushing it). I'm still waiting for something that is reasonably stable.

I don't have a lot of confidence in Apple right now. Springing a stable release is not a good thing (assuming it happens).

In the past hour I've crashed at least 3 times. Number of times I've crashed in Tiger in 2007? Zero.

I don't know two posts and both of them have the sky falling. Is it just me?

MacBiscuit
Sep 21, 2007, 08:01 AM
X = Xeroxing
P = People

V = Very
I = Incompatiable
S = Stuff
T = That's
A = Atrocious

L = Let's
E = Evolve
O = Operating Systems
P = Putting
A = Apple
R = Reaching
D = Desktops

OK I suck at acronyms but you get the point.

XP = EXtremely Problematic
VISTA = Vile Interface, Still Trails Apple
LEOPARD - Lacks Excitement, Or Perhaps A Reason to Download

whereas

TIGER = This Is Generally Exactly Right

CJD2112
Sep 21, 2007, 08:42 AM
I've tried to be patient, but the last seed was actually a step backwards in stability. I've been waiting for the past two weeks in hopes of getting something that doesn't crash constantly (and I'm not even pushing it). I'm still waiting for something that is reasonably stable.

I don't have a lot of confidence in Apple right now. Springing a stable release is not a good thing (assuming it happens).

In the past hour I've crashed at least 3 times. Number of times I've crashed in Tiger in 2007? Zero.

Leopard has actually been very stable for me overall, with the exception of 9A527's Safari crashing very regularly. Otherwise, I'd say I've reported fewer bugs with each version.

Ok, I take it back. I've just realized there is a sound issue with this update. I've checked and rechecked my settings, rebooted, etc but this minor update isn't producing any sound. Odd. Any one else having a similar experience? :confused:

hey i see you have blu ray but one question does it work in leopard and can you watch blu ray movies in leopard?

Yup, works perfectly.

http://www.mcetech.com/blu-ray/

Got it for roughly $550. I use it mainly for backing up my music and movies. I don't watch much in the way of Blu-ray movies on my Mac, those I save for my 50" Pioneer plasma :cool:.

the new os is great. wish i didnt have to keep erasing 10.5 and reinstalling 10.4 before sending my macbook in for yet another hardware repair. they dont like seeing 10.5 on your mac... yet.

Funny thing. I had to call Apple about some issues with iLife '08. I sent in my log info to the tech support guy. After reading through some errors with me, he pauses and asks "So how's Leopard?" DOLT Of course, I acquired it legally and such, but I wasn't expecting the question. I chuckled. :p

FJ218700
Sep 21, 2007, 09:01 AM
But obviously there's not much hope for my G3 Wallstreet powerbook... which these days I only fire up when I want to get nostalgic about OS9. Happens more than I'd like to admit, really. Look at the finder guy in the startup sequence, he looks so happy!

ha, that's great. I do the same with my PB 3400c, but into 8.5. I've even made some posts here on it through Netscape 4

CJD2112
Sep 21, 2007, 09:25 AM
Ok, I fixed the sound issue. I re-installed the "Realtek" sound driver for Mac OS and it reset the lack of sound in this latest update. For those who have written me about the same issue, download the driver package here:

http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=6&PFid=6&Level=5&Conn=4&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false#RTL8100B(L)/RTL8100C(L)/RTL8101L/RTL8139C(L)%3Cbr%3ERTL8139C(L)+/RTL8139D(L)/RTL8100(L)%3Cbr%3ERTL8130/RTL8139B(L)

Download the driver for "Mac OS X 10.4". Works fine. Of course, I'm running Leopard on a Mac Pro, I was able to determine the exact sound card used for Mac Pro's but it may differ depending on which Mac you're using...

Hope this helps.

Update: This is the same driver used by MacBook Pro's (and possibly all Intel Mac's presently).

k2k koos
Sep 21, 2007, 09:37 AM
Hmm well they better release it in october or els ill do somethin bad. :)

like what, switching to Vista?? :-)

compuguy1088
Sep 21, 2007, 09:48 AM
No :p



Ah, that, yeah, it's called "Glow" now.

Ah, thats good that they didn't remove that :)

If only someone would invent a means of distributing the load of downloading Leopard across the 100,000 clients instead of everyone downloading directly from Apple... OH WAIT! There's that BitTorrent thing... :p

There are many legal uses of bittorrent, for example World of Warcraft uses it for distributing patches.

Except that's illegal... :rolleyes: lol. Still, if Apple found a legal way to do that after people payed for it... Like a certain key or something specifically generated for every purchaser, that might work.

I bet they can find a legal way to keep it safe via an electronic download, its been done before...

badcrumble
Sep 21, 2007, 09:48 AM
So what's the new software update like?

compuguy1088
Sep 21, 2007, 09:52 AM
Well, I hope you realize that the dev seeds are an entirely different matter from the end user product when it comes to anti piracy measures Apple is willing to take. One reason why they want control of their dev seeds is because they don't want details about them to get out in the wild too soon. As for the release product, Apple has most certainly not been tracking the legitimacy of OS X (client). If they're smart, they'll continue to tolerate OS X piracy. Unlike Microsoft, Apple also sells hardware. Plus, just look at the pathetic anti-piracy schemes Microsoft, Adobe and others have come up with:

- they have all been broken withing weeks, sometimes days of release, in rare cases even before the final product shipped
- they create endless headaches for many customers who legitimately obtained their licenses (remember the recent WGA server outage?)
- in general they do NOT give customers any advantage in return for the restrictions, unlike what the software companies would like you to think (I'm still waiting for Adobe floating licenses for small businesses, for instance)

All in all it's just one big fiasco. Apple should keep OS X out of those muddy waters.

All very true, I was affected by the WGA outage, and it was kind of frustrating to have that happen.

Brendon Bauer
Sep 21, 2007, 10:01 AM
Ok, I fixed the sound issue. I re-installed the "Realtek" sound driver for Mac OS and it reset the lack of sound in this latest update. For those who have written me about the same issue, download the driver package here:

http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=6&PFid=6&Level=5&Conn=4&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false#RTL8100B(L)/RTL8100C(L)/RTL8101L/RTL8139C(L)%3Cbr%3ERTL8139C(L)+/RTL8139D(L)/RTL8100(L)%3Cbr%3ERTL8130/RTL8139B(L)

Download the driver for "Mac OS X 10.4". Works fine. Of course, I'm running Leopard on a Mac Pro, I was able to determine the exact sound card used for Mac Pro's but it may differ depending on which Mac you're using...

Hope this helps.

Update: This is the same driver used by MacBook Pro's (and possibly all Intel Mac's presently).

Hey, why don't you send me a copy of the latest build and I'll test it out to make sure it works :D. Figured Apple might need a little extra help :rolleyes:

CJD2112
Sep 21, 2007, 10:12 AM
Hey, why don't you send me a copy of the latest build and I'll test it out to make sure it works :D. Figured Apple might need a little extra help :rolleyes:

PM me ;)

morrisan
Sep 21, 2007, 10:58 AM
Hey,

If I were to buy a new iMac soon, when in the Leopard pre-release process should I place the order so that I get a Mac with Panther installed but also get the Leopard disks?

Thanks!

tribulation
Sep 21, 2007, 10:59 AM
Well then they'll just not be candidates for a downloadable OS then...

I wish Apple did something like this, the problem is I seem to find this but for the most part the cost isn't much different from the actual physical software (games in my case, to my foggy memory though) I think it should be around 20-30% less.

I think 20-30% is pushing it to an extreme. They pay very little for the mass actual physical production. Other fees for shelf space in other retail chains, etc would never account for that much of a drop per copy. But a box isn't really what we're paying for here. It's OS X. There are hundreds of thousands of hours of work converted to data on the cheap DVD. All of that work can't be discounted by 30% just for a few cents for a physical DVD and packaging [and shelf space]. I don't think that's logical or going to happen and really don't think it should. We use these systems every day, a couple hundred bucks or less is not unreasonable for the amount of actual time it took to develop.

patseguin
Sep 21, 2007, 11:01 AM
Hey,

If I were to buy a new iMac soon, when in the Leopard pre-release process should I place the order so that I get a Mac with Panther installed but also get the Leopard disks?

Thanks!

I doubt you can get a new Mac with Panther. It'll come with Tiger.

digitalbiker
Sep 21, 2007, 11:08 AM
I doubt vey much that Leopard will be available to the general public as a download option. The full package is 6 - 7 GB. This makes it extremely slow to download even with a 1.5mb DSL line.

Not only that but it will not fit on a standard DVD. This requires a DL DVD Burner that many users don't have available.

Currently Leopard doesn't install from an ISO. If you mount the iso and double click "install OSX", the installer forces a system reboot. Upon reboot the mounted ISO is gone and the system boots from the priamry boot drive.

Currently the only way to install Leopard is to burn the iso to a DL-DVD and boot from the DVD.

I am sure that Apple doesn't want to instute a general system that requires a 10+ hour download, mount iso, burn to DL-DVD, and then it just works (maybe if the download didn't fail)

Krevnik
Sep 21, 2007, 11:11 AM
Currently the only way to install Leopard is to burn the iso to a DL-DVD and boot from the DVD.

Not true... I have been doing just fine without DVD-Rs installing seeds. The magic is in the readmes. They offer alternatives. :)

Fuchal
Sep 21, 2007, 11:19 AM
I hope they spend some time making Leopard not uncontrollably ugly before they ship it. The WWDC build was terribly disgusting, and the new close/minimize buttons are hideous.

Pierremaison
Sep 21, 2007, 11:32 AM
I doubt vey much that Leopard will be available to the general public as a download option. The full package is 6 - 7 GB. This makes it extremely slow to download even with a 1.5mb DSL line.

Not only that but it will not fit on a standard DVD. This requires a DL DVD Burner that many users don't have available.

Currently Leopard doesn't install from an ISO. If you mount the iso and double click "install OSX", the installer forces a system reboot. Upon reboot the mounted ISO is gone and the system boots from the priamry boot drive.

Currently the only way to install Leopard is to burn the iso to a DL-DVD and boot from the DVD.

I am sure that Apple doesn't want to instute a general system that requires a 10+ hour download, mount iso, burn to DL-DVD, and then it just works (maybe if the download didn't fail)

Not true mine booted from a USB drive.

digitalbiker
Sep 21, 2007, 11:42 AM
Not true mine booted from a USB drive.

Yeah, I boot mine from a USB drive as well but first I had to burn the downloaded ISO to a DVD and do the initial install from a DVD.

How did you get the ISO installed on the USB drive without first burning to dvd and running install OS X?

/dev/toaster
Sep 21, 2007, 11:47 AM
Update was smooth, however none of the bugs I reported have been fixed. Safari feels more stable, but time will tell.

The most annoying bug I have found is with RSS feeds in Safari ... it creates this error dump popup a few times an hour, unless you move it to a corner then it only pops up once in a while.

digitalbiker
Sep 21, 2007, 11:49 AM
Not true... I have been doing just fine without DVD-Rs installing seeds. The magic is in the readmes. They offer alternatives. :)

Oh yeah, your readmes must be different than mine. I have searched Apples developer site and I can't find an alternative method anywhere.

I have tried booting from mounted ISO, on seperate internal drive, booting from ISO on USB drive, mounting iso & copying files to alternate drive, etc.

I can't get any of them to work. The only method I have found that works is burn ISO to DL-DVD!

I am not saying that it can't be done, I am saying that I haven't been able to get it to work any other way for me. Therefore I doubt Apple would implement this as a general public "Pay for Download option" type system. Besides people are going to want OS X system disks anyway for backing up in case of a disaster or disk repair.

/dev/toaster
Sep 21, 2007, 11:55 AM
Oh yeah, your readmes must be different than mine. I have searched Apples developer site and I can't find an alternative method anywhere.

I have tried booting from mounted ISO, on seperate internal drive, booting from ISO on USB drive, mounting iso & copying files to alternate drive, etc.

I can't get any of them to work. The only method I have found that works is burn ISO to DL-DVD!

I am not saying that it can't be done, I am saying that I haven't been able to get it to work any other way for me. Therefore I doubt Apple would implement this as a general public "Pay for Download option" type system. Besides people are going to want OS X system disks anyway for backing up in case of a disaster or disk repair.

Funny, I have the exact opposite problem ... I can't get the burned versions to boot, I am forced to use an external firewire drive for it.

morrisan
Sep 21, 2007, 11:55 AM
I doubt you can get a new Mac with Panther. It'll come with Tiger.

Sorry, I meant Tiger. Thanks!

Peace
Sep 21, 2007, 12:30 PM
Update was smooth, however none of the bugs I reported have been fixed. Safari feels more stable, but time will tell.

The most annoying bug I have found is with RSS feeds in Safari ... it creates this error dump popup a few times an hour, unless you move it to a corner then it only pops up once in a while.

I hope you realize engineers have more than likely already fixed your bugs and have gone on to greener pasture because the seed that goes out to developers is normally 20-30 builds behind internal builds.and there's a reason for that.I could give you a list but I'm let you figure it out.

Yeah, I boot mine from a USB drive as well but first I had to burn the downloaded ISO to a DVD and do the initial install from a DVD.

How did you get the ISO installed on the USB drive without first burning to dvd and running install OS X?

Question :

You say you downloaded an *.ISO..What O/S are you referring to ? Apple doesn't release downloads as *.ISO.That's a Windows thing..Apple seeds come out as *.DMG..

I could go on about the wherefores and whys concerning sound issues but since it isn't an issue but a purposeful thing I won't.

And lastly why are all you "developers" being so blatant with your breaching of the Apple NDA ?


Apple is on at least 9a558 right now and getting ready to go GM but due to contractual and ongoing deals with various companies can't release it to GM status to allow it to be downloaded.To do this at this stage would give away new hardware coming out and features that rely on contracts with other companies that arn't public yet.

Have patience and help out by submitting your "bugs" the proper way instead of talking about them openly in a public forum.

thirdeyeopen666
Sep 21, 2007, 12:31 PM
Ah, thats good that they didn't remove that

Sorry to disappoint you... but he's wrong. Glow is something entirely different from the hologram effect one. That was taken out a few builds ago, unfortunately. It was really the only cool one and the only one that worked moderately well.

phillipjfry
Sep 21, 2007, 12:32 PM
It's good to hear some news about Leopard. It seemed to disappear again. I hope it's not coming out along with Duke Nukem. I just can't wait that long. :)



That's a lie. Unless you have hard evidence for this, you don't know what you're talking about.

Paranoid much? ;)

Lesser Evets
Sep 21, 2007, 12:38 PM
October 1st 00:00:01 am

....I met Steve Jobs in an elevator. He said.
So it's real.

I didn't take a photo of all the cool new hardware he brought along to show me.

Sorry....

mdriftmeyer
Sep 21, 2007, 12:44 PM
I think 20-30% is pushing it to an extreme. They pay very little for the mass actual physical production. Other fees for shelf space in other retail chains, etc would never account for that much of a drop per copy. But a box isn't really what we're paying for here. It's OS X. There are hundreds of thousands of hours of work converted to data on the cheap DVD. All of that work can't be discounted by 30% just for a few cents for a physical DVD and packaging [and shelf space]. I don't think that's logical or going to happen and really don't think it should. We use these systems every day, a couple hundred bucks or less is not unreasonable for the amount of actual time it took to develop.

Not to mention retail shelf space strengthens the brand and visibility.

mdriftmeyer
Sep 21, 2007, 12:46 PM
I hope you realize engineers have more than likely already fixed your bugs and have gone on to greener pasture because the seed that goes out to developers is normally 20-30 builds behind internal builds.and there's a reason for that.I could give you a list but I'm let you figure it out.



Question :

You say you downloaded an *.ISO..What O/S are you referring to ? Apple doesn't release downloads as *.ISO.That's a Windows thing..Apple seeds come out as *.DMG..

I could go on about the wherefores and whys concerning sound issues but since it isn't an issue but a purposeful thing I won't.

And lastly why are all you "developers" being so blatant with your breaching of the Apple NDA ?


Apple is on at least 9a558 right now and getting ready to go GM but due to contractual and ongoing deals with various companies can't release it to GM status to allow it to be downloaded.To do this at this stage would give away new hardware coming out and features that rely on contracts with other companies that arn't public yet.

Have patience and help out by submitting your "bugs" the proper way instead of talking about them openly in a public forum.

Offtopic:
ISO is not just a Windows thing. It's a Linux thing, a FreeBSD thing, etc.

Anyone can download Debian Linux ISOs of various releases.

OS X has native ISO support. ISO is standard.

Peace
Sep 21, 2007, 12:48 PM
Offtopic:
ISO is not just a Windows thing. It's a Linux thing, a FreeBSD thing, etc.

Anyone can download Debian Linux ISOs of various releases.

OS X has native ISO support. ISO is standard.

Thats correct but it's used on PeeCees mostly.Apple DOES NOT release downloads in ISO format nor does Apple sell Linux.

ukp
Sep 21, 2007, 12:52 PM
Yeah, I boot mine from a USB drive as well but first I had to burn the downloaded ISO to a DVD and do the initial install from a DVD.

How did you get the ISO installed on the USB drive without first burning to dvd and running install OS X?

Use the Restore feature of Disk Utility to "restore" the downloaded .dmg file to a partition (The partition can be on the same drive or external drive), then reboot the machine and boot from that newly restored partition.

This way you don't need to burn to any dvd media.

CJD2112
Sep 21, 2007, 01:05 PM
Sorry to disappoint you... but he's wrong. Glow is something entirely different from the hologram effect one. That was taken out a few builds ago, unfortunately. It was really the only cool one and the only one that worked moderately well.

Hmmmm, I could have sworn it was the same effect. At one point it was called "ghost". I just figured they modified it a bit to the "glow" effect.

Alloye
Sep 21, 2007, 01:12 PM
Leopard has actually been very stable for me overall, with the exception of 9A527's Safari crashing very regularly. Otherwise, I'd say I've reported fewer bugs with each version.

Pretty much the same here. Lots of Safari crashes (_CFHTTPConnectionCacheRemoveC
onnection) and a few Xcode crashes. Otherwise, I've found 9A527 to be the best build yet.

So far, Safari is stable with the 9A528d update.

thirdeyeopen666
Sep 21, 2007, 01:28 PM
Hmmmm, I could have sworn it was the same effect. At one point it was called "ghost". I just figured they modified it a bit to the "glow" effect.

Glow is just like one of the current Photo Booth effects. Can't remember the name... its probably Glow :)

Anyway, I wish I understood why this very minor but very cool feature was scrapped.

/dev/toaster
Sep 21, 2007, 01:42 PM
I hope you realize engineers have more than likely already fixed your bugs and have gone on to greener pasture because the seed that goes out to developers is normally 20-30 builds behind internal builds.and there's a reason for that.I could give you a list but I'm let you figure it out.

Yes, I understand this quite well. I am just posting my notes on the newest seed.

reno
Sep 21, 2007, 01:54 PM
Update or not Leopard is still far behind Windows XP, not to mention Vista :eek: Windows XP is the ***** and I hate to admit that.

Leopards finder at least 10 years behind Windows. Compatibility wise, behind--don't even ask!


ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

CJD2112
Sep 21, 2007, 02:07 PM
Glow is just like one of the current Photo Booth effects. Can't remember the name... its probably Glow :)

Anyway, I wish I understood why this very minor but very cool feature was scrapped.

Darn, I wish I caught it in the previous seeds before it was removed. I'm getting the sense that Apple is stripping minor things out of Leopard as we get closer to Gold Master. While a lot of the improvements are under the hood and much needed, it would be nice to see them deliver on those "super secret features" :p . Like "Fast OS switching", that would be incredible, especially as I need to use Vista for AutoCAD work.

/dev/toaster
Sep 21, 2007, 02:09 PM
Update or not Leopard is still far behind Windows XP, not to mention Vista :eek: Windows XP is the ***** and I hate to admit that.

Leopards finder at least 10 years behind Windows. Compatibility wise, behind--don't even ask!

Either you are being very sarcastic or you are smoking far too much dope.

Capt. Obvious
Sep 21, 2007, 02:12 PM
anyone have the sad and sneaking feeling Leopard is going to be a train wreck?only the most timorous of the tin-foil-hat brigade...

Maybe it was the comment from Adobe.You mean about CS3 waiting for Leopard Final? THAT makes you fear disaster???

Maybe it is the disgraceful streak of poor decisions and terrible quality Apple has been on of late.In the Bizarro World, perhaps.

Will Leopard be the final straw? Does Jobs even work at Apple anymore? Something is wrong/different/off. I hate to say it, but I am sure it's true...So sure that you'd make it up out of nothing?

I suggest you breathe into a bag until you stop hyperventilating, then get yourself some *real* food, some sleep, and check in w/ your parents to let them know you're okay.

And from now on, stay away from drugs, 'kay?

Krevnik
Sep 21, 2007, 02:24 PM
Oh yeah, your readmes must be different than mine. I have searched Apples developer site and I can't find an alternative method anywhere.

Apple also includes a seed-specific readme on the disk, and usually the seed notes have instructions on how you can install. Booting from a separate drive /requires/ you option-boot, as the installer.app is setup to look for DVD media.

Siemova
Sep 21, 2007, 02:26 PM
I live less than 5 minutes from the office and get an hour lunch break, so I went home for lunch today as usual, and decided to install the updates after I ate. So I did, and the computer rebooted, and then... the Finder kept failing to load, over and over. Had to shut down by holding the power button. I'm hoping it'll be okay on my next startup, but I had to get back to work and couldn't stay to find out!

Prior to this, 9A527 had given me few problems, and nothing major.

seashellz
Sep 21, 2007, 03:11 PM
>>I'm sure optical disc manufacturing has improved in the 2+ years since Tiger's release.
------------
Maybe, but the logistics of packaging and/or distribution means GM by Oct 1st-If they want to make 31st.
Typically stores have this merchandise from a couple days to a week before street date. Figure that in.


And where IS 10.4.11?

BWhaler
Sep 21, 2007, 03:16 PM
only the most timorous of the tin-foil-hat brigade...

You mean about CS3 waiting for Leopard Final? THAT makes you fear disaster???

In the Bizarro World, perhaps.

So sure that you'd make it up out of nothing?

I suggest you breathe into a bag until you stop hyperventilating, then get yourself some *real* food, some sleep, and check in w/ your parents to let them know you're okay.

And from now on, stay away from drugs, 'kay?

Wow. Aren't you clever. Very impressive.

I guess all of the other pundits writing about Apple being off its game of late is also a bunch of crap.

Stupid Apple Apologists. You are what give the Apple community a bad name.

teknishn
Sep 21, 2007, 03:20 PM
Use the Restore feature of Disk Utility to "restore" the downloaded .dmg file to a partition (The partition can be on the same drive or external drive), then reboot the machine and boot from that newly restored partition.

This way you don't need to burn to any dvd media.

Also, you have to make sure your external disk is setup with the GUID partition scheme and UFS. Can't be FAT partition etc

teknishn
Sep 21, 2007, 03:24 PM
Wow. Aren't you clever. Very impressive.

I guess all of the other pundits writing about Apple being off its game of late is also a bunch of crap.

Stupid Apple Apologists. You are what give the Apple community a bad name.

First, when ppl are being sarcastic or worse, that doesn't translate to an entire community being stupid or an entire community having a bad name.

Second, I have CS3 running in Leopard just fine right now. It just works, why wouldn't it. In fact everything works that I have tried thus far. I think that fearmongering the contrary is just as bad as being a sarcastic ass.

And finally, Apple is anything but "off their game". In fact thats the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Put some of it in perspective for you.... so far this year we have updated macbooks, macbook pros, minis, new and very slick iMacs, iPhone, new iPod Touch, classic and nano..... all awesome new tech at lower than ever prices. On the software front we have new iLife 08 and iWork 08 along with significant updates to .Mac, and Leopard on the way next month. Last but not least, why don't you take a look at Apple's SEC filings and current stock price.... as well as their Stock price and performance over the last 2 years and tell us all again exactly how Apple is "off their game"

Sbrocket
Sep 21, 2007, 03:34 PM
And where IS 10.4.11?

Would you rather Apple divert parts of its development team (however small) away from Leopard to 10.4.11? I'm sure there some people working on it, but there'll be time for a 10.4 update once we hit Golden Master status.

chrisdazzo
Sep 21, 2007, 04:54 PM
Would you rather Apple divert parts of its development team (however small) away from Leopard to 10.4.11? I'm sure there some people working on it, but there'll be time for a 10.4 update once we hit Golden Master status.
+1. I'm sure once Leopard is released to the public, most compatability issues with software such as Adobe CS3 (which I hear has already been fixed) will be dealt with accordingly. Thus, you needn't worry about waiting for 10.4.11, unless you're that fond of the old Aqua UI. I personally prefer the new traffic lights and transparency. :)

decksnap
Sep 21, 2007, 05:30 PM
And finally, Apple is anything but "off their game". In fact thats the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Put some of it in perspective for you.... so far this year we have updated macbooks, macbook pros, minis, new and very slick iMacs, iPhone, new iPod Touch, classic and nano..... all awesome new tech at lower than ever prices. On the software front we have new iLife 08 and iWork 08 along with significant updates to .Mac, and Leopard on the way next month. Last but not least, why don't you take a look at Apple's SEC filings and current stock price.... as well as their Stock price and performance over the last 2 years and tell us all again exactly how Apple is "off their game"

I might be convinced to agree that Apple is off their game a bit. I'm thinking they are spreading themselves a little thin, especially in the UI and design department. The new UI for the Nano/Classic is just bad. Much of the new aesthetics in the Leopard builds are crap (folders, dock, menubar, I'm looking at you). iMovie was a step backwards. iTunes keeps getting uglier, and more bloated. The list goes on.

I'm getting the feeling that someone really high up at Apple has a son who likes to make graphics. Bad graphics.

In the hardware department, I think they'd still be on their game if they didn't keep putting horrible screens in so many of their products.

curmi
Sep 21, 2007, 05:55 PM
And finally, Apple is anything but "off their game". In fact thats the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Put some of it in perspective for you.... so far this year we have updated macbooks, macbook pros, minis, new and very slick iMacs, iPhone, new iPod Touch, classic and nano..... all awesome new tech at lower than ever prices. On the software front we have new iLife 08 and iWork 08 along with significant updates to .Mac, and Leopard on the way next month. Last but not least, why don't you take a look at Apple's SEC filings and current stock price.... as well as their Stock price and performance over the last 2 years and tell us all again exactly how Apple is "off their game"

Hey, I agree with most of what you say here (iLife and iWork are great). But .Mac? I am currently with .Mac, and have been from the start. But to say .Mac has had "significant updates" is a joke. The service creaks.

I would say Apple is off their game though - in the sense that they are making blunders that affect many of their loyal users and developers. You only have to look at the decisions they've been making lately - the whole ringtone thing which smells of Apple getting way too big for its britches, "secret" features coming in Leopard that amount to a laughable desktop (developers at WWDC actually did) and a transparent menu bar, a phone which doesn't let you add real applications so developers have to hack it in order to add new programs, an insult to developers telling them that Apple have a "sweet" way to develop apps for the iPhone which is basically making web pages, screen issues with hardware, adding cover flow everywhere even when it is next to useless outside of photos/albums, and a new nano whose proportions look odd and are unusual considering Apple's usual attention to aesthetically pleasing design. There is probably more - Apple TV being next to useless outside the US, and not supporting real HD, or codecs that the rest of the world use, springs to mind.

That's not to say that Apple's stock price has suffered. But if Apple continues down this route it will. Talk to a few real Apple fans and there is a feeling that something isn't right.

Who knows the real reason. We often assume Steve is close to all the details, telling everyone what is and isn't right. I'm not sure this is true, but if it is, he's been concentrating so much on the iPhone lately, that he has neglected Leopard. Even if it isn't true, Apple has spread its resources so thin that most of the Leopard developers have been on the iPhone, and thus Leopard has had little input, and people left on it may not have the skills of the previous team and are making poor interface decisions. Or maybe Apple has got so large with so many products that they've had to hire a lot more developers - and any one who works in the industry knows, there is only a small number of really good designers and developers in the world - as you get bigger and need more resources the resources you get are of lower quality. Maybe Apple are hiring the sort of resources that work at Microsoft now. :) That would explain many of the Leopard decisions. :)

teknishn
Sep 21, 2007, 06:58 PM
I might be convinced to agree that Apple is off their game a bit. I'm thinking they are spreading themselves a little thin, especially in the UI and design department. The new UI for the Nano/Classic is just bad. Much of the new aesthetics in the Leopard builds are crap (folders, dock, menubar, I'm looking at you). iMovie was a step backwards. iTunes keeps getting uglier, and more bloated. The list goes on.

I'm getting the feeling that someone really high up at Apple has a son who likes to make graphics. Bad graphics.

In the hardware department, I think they'd still be on their game if they didn't keep putting horrible screens in so many of their products.

Well I guess its to each their own. Im sure the new Nano and Classic UI will evolve to get better. I completely disagree on Leopard, are you actually using it? iMovie is a step forward in many ways and a step backward in others...so we can somewhat agree there. I have no gripes about iTunes other than not being able to make my own ringtones.... but thats a small item.

teknishn
Sep 21, 2007, 07:02 PM
Hey, I agree with most of what you say here (iLife and iWork are great). But .Mac? I am currently with .Mac, and have been from the start. But to say .Mac has had "significant updates" is a joke. The service creaks.

I would say Apple is off their game though - in the sense that they are making blunders that affect many of their loyal users and developers. You only have to look at the decisions they've been making lately - the whole ringtone thing which smells of Apple getting way too big for its britches, "secret" features coming in Leopard that amount to a laughable desktop (developers at WWDC actually did) and a transparent menu bar, a phone which doesn't let you add real applications so developers have to hack it in order to add new programs, an insult to developers telling them that Apple have a "sweet" way to develop apps for the iPhone which is basically making web pages, screen issues with hardware, adding cover flow everywhere even when it is next to useless outside of photos/albums, and a new nano whose proportions look odd and are unusual considering Apple's usual attention to aesthetically pleasing design. There is probably more - Apple TV being next to useless outside the US, and not supporting real HD, or codecs that the rest of the world use, springs to mind.

That's not to say that Apple's stock price has suffered. But if Apple continues down this route it will. Talk to a few real Apple fans and there is a feeling that something isn't right.

Who knows the real reason. We often assume Steve is close to all the details, telling everyone what is and isn't right. I'm not sure this is true, but if it is, he's been concentrating so much on the iPhone lately, that he has neglected Leopard. Even if it isn't true, Apple has spread its resources so thin that most of the Leopard developers have been on the iPhone, and thus Leopard has had little input, and people left on it may not have the skills of the previous team and are making poor interface decisions. Or maybe Apple has got so large with so many products that they've had to hire a lot more developers - and any one who works in the industry knows, there is only a small number of really good designers and developers in the world - as you get bigger and need more resources the resources you get are of lower quality. Maybe Apple are hiring the sort of resources that work at Microsoft now. :) That would explain many of the Leopard decisions. :)

Im certainly not saying they're perfect by any stretch. I think they were beyond having a full plate this year. I imagine now that the new ipods, iphone, leopard and iapps are out of the way they can regroup in 2008.

Regarding .Mac... Im not saying its the greatest thing ever. I was just saying it was updated. Supports the 08 iApp stuff, a ton more storage, support for your own domain etc. Other than that it is what it is.