15inch PowerBook Details and Supplies

[MacRumors]

Despite high expectations (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030813035204.shtml) for PowerBook updates, the earliest date (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030807135533.shtml) has come and gone.

Still ThinkSecret (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030818022136.shtml) confirms that PowerBooks are imminent.

In the meanwhile, a new reliable report casts some light on the 15" PowerBook update... and reports that the new 15" PowerBook screen comes in at 15.2". This is contrary to an early report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/01/20030114224328.shtml) (and subsequent report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030613080326.shtml)) from Digitimes, which claimed that 15.4" PowerBooks would be coming this year. This screen size was then echoed by a number of sites (1 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030212215843.shtml), 2 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030217121821.shtml), 3 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030404125646.shtml)) over the course of this year.

The 15" PowerBook will also sport an illuminated keyboard and similar improvements to bring it in line with the Aluminum PowerBooks.

Adding more fuel to the fire is ongoing reports of depleted PowerBook supplies which have littered Page 2 (http://page2.macrumors.com/). The most recent addition is this report (http://macteens.com/news_more.php?id=254_0_3_0_C) at MacTeens.com which shows little inventory remaining at distributors: IngramMicro and MultiMicro.

[ratspg]

i really dont mind, but if they come, great... apple took a while with this update ;)

[Grimace]

15.2 or 15.4 - whatever. Just bring em out. People are going to have a heart attack here!

[Abstract]

Shut up.......just shut up about the PB's. :( These stupid August dates didn't sound right anyway. September always seemed more logical, and yet I allowed this rumour to get my hopes up anyway. ****!!!! :mad:

[virtualsid]

Does this mean it is likely that the resolution of the 15.2" screen will be the same as the existing 15" PowerBook?

I was hoping it would be higher really - some of the PC laptops now have some nice high resolutions, 1600x1200 in 15"...

Still waiting to see what the new powerbook will be like, and the pricing, to see how much I need to save :-)

Sid

[garymm]

It's actually not necessarily advantageous to cram more pixels in the same screen size. at 1280x854, the 15in is already high-resolution, and I think going higher would make some text hard to read, and of course, remember that running games on an LCD works best when you run them at the native resolution, and most laptops have graphics cards that get outdated fairly quickly.

[Powerbook G5]

Holy crap, I hit back on my browser and IE refreshed to the main page and saw "15 inch PowerBook..." and I swear I nearly had a heart attack...until I saw it was yet another rumor roundup! I swear, sometimes this site is hazardous to your health! Anyway, 15.2" screens, who cares! I've already read enough disappointments if it will really still be the 7455 PPC G4s and another nVidia and all that uncool stuff. It's at that point where I don't care as long as Apple just lets me buy a frikken 15" Aluminum PowerBook!

[virtualsid]

Originally posted by garymm
It's actually not necessarily advantageous to cram more pixels in the same screen size. at 1280x854, the 15in is already high-resolution, and I think going higher would make some text hard to read, and of course, remember that running games on an LCD works best when you run them at the native resolution, and most laptops have graphics cards that get outdated fairly quickly.

I understand your points, but I don't believe the 15.2" is currently a high resolution... I am too lazy to work out the dot pitch, but the resolution of my current PC laptop with a 13.3" screen is 1024x768, and that seems low resolution to me...

SimCity4 is the only game I want to play anyway ;)

Sid

[Powerbook G5]

Sim City 4 rocks! I'm currently in control of the fates of over 600,000 Sims, mwahahaha!

[actionslacks]

Do we really need another rumor round up?

Clearly NO ONE KNOWS when they are coming.

I miss the days when rumor sites would actually predict a release based on a tip. Where are all of the sources these days? how many people must know about the future of the 15inch powerbook and none of them have said a word to anyone? screw NDAs. There used to be someone who leaked a little!

[MasterMac]

Ahh, I really hope that ThinkSecret is right, I can live with the lower processor speed and smaller screen size, I just want this new PB!!

[arn]

Originally posted by actionslacks
Do we really need another rumor round up?


it's not a roundup. There is some minor, but reliable new information.

arn

[nagromme]

Fingers crossed that they do NOT increase the dot pitch by much if at all. Cramming the maximum number of pixels in is basically a specialty option as far as I'm concerned: some people will find it usable, but most will just ruin their eyes! I wouldn't want tiny menus and tiny icons and tiny browsing.

My eyes are nearly perfect, yet for long hours of use, even my Lombard at 1024x768 in 14" seems too tiny! The TiBook is already a tighter res than that. Fair enough--more workspace--but don't go to any extremes, please!

I wonder if most of the people who buy 1600x1200 laptops really try to work with one first... or just like how the numbers sound, and end up with a less usable/readable display. I'd NEVER buy one, personally.

[tizza]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Holy crap, I hit back on my browser and IE refreshed to the main page and saw "15 inch PowerBook..." and I swear I nearly had a heart attack...until I saw it was yet another rumor roundup! I swear, sometimes this site is hazardous to your health! Anyway, 15.2" screens, who cares! I've already read enough disappointments if it will really still be the 7455 PPC G4s and another nVidia and all that uncool stuff. It's at that point where I don't care as long as Apple just lets me buy a frikken 15" Aluminum PowerBook!
I was the same ... heart still beating at dangerously high levels as I lie on the floor and recover ...;)

[VirtualInsanity]

This is my first post, but i have been looking around macrumors for awhile and i think its great.:D

These rumors are getting infuriating. Like many, i am holding on for the updates, as i want a 15 inch powerbook for university. Mac is alienating its faithful followers by consistently not putting out.

Powerbooks are geared to professionals, and most people who will pay this much for a laptop know exactly what they want. By taking so long, apple is angering their prime customers.

I know the delays may not be apple's fault (motorola) but cant they at least announce the updates to ease those with impatience?

Dave

[etoiles]

I don't have a problem with 1600x1200 on laptops...but then I always tend to end up with my face very close to the screen, no matter what...some weird attraction thing going there, not sure why. Must be a bug thing :D

anyway, I think a few hundred pixels on either side would be very handy for any graphic apps, especially 3D programs. Anyone who uses Maya probably knows what I am talking about... ;)

mmmmmmmh...illuminated keyboard

[Powerbook G5]

Our 17" Dell LCD monitor is 1600x1200 and I'll tell you, everything is eerily tiny at that resolution from font to the icons themselves. On topic though, it's basically too late for me to get a new PowerBook before I go back to school, but my Lombard has survived half of my high school years and half of my college years, so one more semester can't kill me. Mostly, I just really want to be able to use OS X/Panther in all its glory and 400 MHz with an 8 meg GPU does not cut it beyond OS 9.

[ZildjianKX]

I'm sorely dissapointed Apple is cheaping out on the screens. They better at least upgrade the quality of the screens, the 17" PB has a signifigantly brighter screen than the current 1 GHz model (15"). I really was putting faith in Apple to wow me, and they're coming way short so far.

[Mason]

I'm also waiting to get a 15" powerbook. I was actually at the Apple store earlier today and the saleslady said that there were no updates coming out anytime soon. I just wish I knew what was going on so I could decide whether or not to wait for the powerbooks. I really don't know all the specs for the new books, but everything I've heard sounds good. (You'll have to forgive me as this will be my first Apple computer and I'm still trying to figure out what to do.)

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by Mason
I'm also waiting to get a 15" powerbook. I was actually at the Apple store earlier today and the saleslady said that there were no updates coming out anytime soon. I just wish I knew what was going on so I could decide whether or not to wait for the powerbooks. I really don't know all the specs for the new books, but everything I've heard sounds good. (You'll have to forgive me as this will be my first Apple computer and I'm still trying to figure out what to do.)

Definately wait, the release date can't be too far away... and you don't want to pay over $2K for year old technology... well, as technology goes the current 15" powerbook is probably well over a year old having a 1 GHz processor.

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by VirtualInsanity
Mac is alienating its faithful followers by consistently not putting out.


i know the feeling. i had this girlfriend a few years ago who would't...OH, you meant something else. my fault. sorry.

[Mason]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Definately wait, the release date can't be too far away... and you don't want to pay over $2K for year old technology... well, as technology goes the current 15" powerbook is probably well over a year old having a 1 GHz processor.

I appreciate the advice. Does anyone happen to know what the specs on the new powerbook will be or is it just speculation? If it is just speculation, what are people guessing it will be?

Thanks again.

[actionslacks]

Originally posted by arn
it's not a roundup. There is some minor, but reliable new information.

arn

Ok, but very minor. A confirmation of a 15.2inch screen? Is this what it has come to?

Why is this page 1? It seems in line with the multiple rumors that have appeared on page 2, yet doesn't supply any strong info.

I appreciate any new tidbit of info, but I just wish it was something more solid or something to get excited about.

Oh well. Keep up the good work anyway.:)

[ELYXR]

Originally posted by actionslacks
Ok, but very minor. A confirmation of a 15.2inch screen? Is this what it has come to?

I appreciate any new tidbit of info, but I just wish it was something more solid or something to get excited about.

Oh well. Keep up the good work anyway.:)

Anyone ever consider the possibility that Apple got screwed by Moto AGAIN on the 7457 chips? This has happened too many times for noone to be talking about it. Maybe Apple had to go back and totally redesign the new release with 7455 chips? It's not like any other system component could be holding this up, and at this point Apple has basically already missed the back-to-school buyers. I bet Steve is pissed one way or the other. :mad:

[alphaone]

Originally posted by ELYXR
It's not like any other system component could be holding this up, and at this point Apple has basically already missed the back-to-school buyers. I bet Steve is pissed one way or the other. :mad:
Exactly.

[mstecker]

Arn, you never mentioned your source for the new info? You seem pretty certain about the screen size and lit keyboard.

Where did you find out? Underpants gnomes?

[ELYXR]

Originally posted by Mason
I appreciate the advice. Does anyone happen to know what the specs on the new powerbook will be or is it just speculation? If it is just speculation, what are people guessing it will be?

Thanks again.

If Apple uses the 7457's in the new Powerbooks, I bet it's this:

15.2-inch TFT Display
1280x854 resolution
1.33GHz PowerPC G4 (7457)
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA/100
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce4 440 Go
64MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400
FireWire 800
AirPort Extreme (optional)
Bluetooth built-in
DVI & S-Video out

If it's the 7455:

15.2-inch TFT Display
1280x854 resolution
1.25GHz PowerPC G4 (7455)
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA/100
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce4 440 Go
64MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400
FireWire 800
AirPort Extreme (optional)
Bluetooth built-in
DVI & S-Video out

[mstecker]

I'll be a bit disappointed if they have a 440 GO in them again. Isn't the FX/GO on the market now?

[actionslacks]

Originally posted by ELYXR
Anyone ever consider the possibility that Apple got screwed by Moto AGAIN on the 7457 chips? This has happened too many times for noone to be talking about it. Maybe Apple had to go back and totally redesign the new release with 7455 chips? It's not like any other system component could be holding this up, and at this point Apple has basically already missed the back-to-school buyers. I bet Steve is pissed one way or the other. :mad:

Yes. I think we have all considered that. it has been talked about for um... about a month now. It is most likely true. There are multiple forum threads regarding this.

Anyway, Apple has only 3 choices:

1. Do nothing until a new processor arrives (moto or IBM)
2. Scramble to shove the 1.25 in to powerbooks and figure out how to convince people that they would want it.
3. Scramble to put a low speed (1.2 - 1.4) G5 in a powerbook.

1 of these things will happen within the next month. I just want to hear rumors that let us know which one it is.

[Mason]

Thanks for the info ELYXR.

I guess my final question would be: when the new upgrades come out, are they expected to be at the same price as the current 15" PBs? And am I right to assume that the current PBs would drop in price?

Thanks again. :)

[dawit]

I think we should have a two or so week moratorium on powerbook rumors. Half the group is gathering tidbits of information from here and there and hope they mean something in terms of release dates. Stocks going low at retailers, advertising pulled down...etc.
Every single predicted date has came and gone without and new PB so clearly no one knows when PBs are coming out.Each of the referers has repeatedly been proven wrong. In the real world anyone with that kind of credibility record can forget being able to be taken seriously a long time ago. Thus any further hints and strong rumors are likely to be just are those that came and gone in the past.
The current powerbook machines are just fine. Just like the buyers guide USED to say,if you really need to get one just go and buy one. Otherwise just wait till apple have sorted it out.
:o

[sacrilicious]

The buyer's guide used to say that because it was true a very long time ago, like the first six months after the 15" was updated.

Of course it's 15.2", you suckers. The 15.4" was used in the Dell laptop. It worries me that people jump so quickly onto these unsubstantiated rumors.

Of course, I'm expecting a new PowerBook tomorrow, so who knows?

[ELYXR]

Originally posted by sacrilicious

Of course, I'm expecting a new PowerBook tomorrow, so who knows?

Every day is like the christmas you woke up and ran down the stairs to find no presents under the tree.

Kind of a bummer. :(

[VirtualInsanity]

If they wait till after paris, it will be VERY stupid of them to have missed the back-to-school market.

Stevie probably would like to eat his words ~ "year of the laptop":rolleyes:

motorola problems or not, apple should at least announce so we dont all feel like we are fumbling through a dark tunnel with no end in site.

PLEASE powerbooks by tuesday

[ZildjianKX]

I'm starting to think these new powerbooks are going to be quite a let down as processor and graphics performance are concerned, not to mention the screen. This really should be a fantastic laptop after the HUGE delay... but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Our 17" Dell LCD monitor is 1600x1200 and I'll tell you, everything is eerily tiny at that resolution from font to the icons themselves. On topic though, it's basically too late for me to get a new PowerBook before I go back to school, but my Lombard has survived half of my high school years and half of my college years, so one more semester can't kill me. Mostly, I just really want to be able to use OS X/Panther in all its glory and 400 MHz with an 8 meg GPU does not cut it beyond OS 9.

Whatchu talkin about? I have 400 MHz and an 8 meg GPU and I'm running Jaguar!

[cb911]

okay, so the earliest date for updates has come and gone, but i'm still hopeful of a release tomorrow (Friday). there are some other sites that have also said if not this week, then in a couple of weeks at the latest.

i've been looking at MacRumors all day waiting for some news, at least it wasn't too bad. it could have been worse.

[crenz]

Whatever the updates will be, I'll probably be disappointed. I'm waiting to buy a 12.1" PB. But I'm quite sure the new model will have

- Still no L3 cache
- Probably only 1 GHz
- Still only the lowly 1024x768 resolution
- Still only 128 MB RAM built-in
- Still only one mouse button
- Higher price
- Four weeks delivery time

Or, according to some rumors, there might not be an update for the 12" at this time. Way to go, Apple :(

I don't get why people can't cope with high resolutions. That's what font setttings and different icon sizes are for... The whole OS should operate on a dpi basis rather than pixels. Would make things so much easier. I for one wouldn't mind 1280x1024 on the 12" at all. And my roommate's 16" 1600x1200 Dell is very nice to work with. He's running Linux though, so he doesn't face Apple's restrictions on setting system font sizes.

As for the release date -- My guess is that Apple got burned by Motorola, but now SJ is waiting for a cool release date, just like with the iMac. It's all about Apple's corporate image, not about the users.

Sorry, I guess I'm a bit frustrated...

[tedwin]

I wanted a 12" powerbook. Did a little research, found myself visiting macrumors.
Decided it would be prudent to wait until the 19th Aug before ordering it, as this was the release date for updates being suggested at the time.
Ordered my mac online from apple uk about 4pm GMT on the 19th. Specified more RAM etc. Computer was "In Build" then got shipped out on the 21st from Taiwan. It arrives in Luxembourg today, gets joined up with the case and ethernet crossover cable I ordered at the same time (sent from Cork in Eire) Then the whole lot gets sent to me here in London(!?)
I presume that the computer was assembled in Taiwan. If new ones will be in the shops any minute now (as it seems alot of people (especially students) are hoping) would they still be making old ones?
Make of this what you will.
I decided that after ordering my mac I would close my eyes and ears to magazines, web sites etc for a while to avoid dissapointment if new ones get announced. As it turns out i'm actually more intrigued than anything else, hence this post and my continued visits to the sites. Safe in the knowledge that my first ever mac is lovely no matter what comes out tommorow.

[Tobi_Wan_Kenobi]

I have talked to an Apple store employee a while ago. He stated that Apple wanted to get the G5 out the door and not have new PowerBooks get in the way of sales of the G5.

That was in July. He further said that he thinks that Sep/Oct would be realistic for release date.

Given that Apple has put out the G5 in time and is delivering them as we speak I think it is fair to say that Apple will release in Paris.

Why would they not wait and give the new product a propper forum for a launche?

So Paris it is, unfortunately. But chances are that they will be available right away.

Just my 5 €cent

[CmdrLaForge]

I really cannot image that Apple is holding back the updates. If they only could announce or have them stored somewhere they really would. Apple is a company and only interested in profit and revenues and market share. Thats how companys work.

They are professional enough not to have big stocks of old hardware. That means:

NEW Powerbooks are not ready.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by garymm
It's actually not necessarily advantageous to cram more pixels in the same screen size. at 1280x854, the 15in is already high-resolution, and I think going higher would make some text hard to read, and of course, remember that running games on an LCD works best when you run them at the native resolution, and most laptops have graphics cards that get outdated fairly quickly.

Now, it really depends on what you want to do with it, doesn't it? Every time I walk up to a 15" TiBook, my reaction is that the pixels are too big and the density is too low. I want a higher resolution than that, but, then, screen realestate is premium to me.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
I'm starting to think these new powerbooks are going to be quite a let down as processor and graphics performance are concerned, not to mention the screen. This really should be a fantastic laptop after the HUGE delay... but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I've been thinking they'd be a let down ever since it became reasonably apparent that they would still be G4 based. I'm quite happy with my choice to get buy a PB back in May, under the circumstances. I'll probably buy a G5 PB (or, perhaps, a G6 PB) in another year to two years. (That, I'm sure, won't disappoint...)

[centauratlas]

The only reason to hold back for a big venue like Paris would be a significant change (e.g. G5s or something equally as revolutionary). Merely bringing speed bumps for the 12 and 17, and bringing the 15 up to similar specs (e.g. airport ex etc) doesn't seem to fit the pattern for a big announcement.

Therefore, I don't think they'll hold back for something like that. They'll announce when they are ready. Who knows when that will be and of course it could coincide with Paris anyway, but they wouldn't hold them just for that...the 15 is too old as it is to wait. Likewise, I don't believe the rumors about them being held back to avoid messing with the PM G5s, the 15 is way to old have that be a concern *unless* they were G5 PBs. Otherwise that makes little sense.

Motorola must have screwed them again. I'd love to see them put a G5 (even running at the lowest possible speed in one) just to get them out there. Then speed-bump them as soon as they can. Dumping Motorola asap would be highly beneficial.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by crenz
Whatever the updates will be, I'll probably be disappointed.

I think it's quite likely that you'll be disappointed, at least to some extent. And if you weren't, I would be...

I'm waiting to buy a 12.1" PB. But I'm quite sure the new model will have

- Still no L3 cache
- Probably only 1 GHz

If that...

- Still only the lowly 1024x768 resolution

Wishing for technology that doesn't exist? Although I haven't made an exhaustive search, a preliminary search showed no 12" LCDs at any higher resolutions than this, anyway.

- Still only 128 MB RAM built-in

128MB built in isn't that bad. Sure, 256MB would be better, but I'd rather be able to plug a 1G chip into the expansion port...


- Still only one mouse button

Oh, please, no! I hope that Apple never puts more than one mouse button on their laptops! I've never used a Windows laptop that had a decently functional two buttons by a track pad. It's trivially easy to use the control key when using the track pad, and when using an external, well, then you've got multiple buttons.

I suppose the one saving grace it that I'm fairly certain if Apple ever did add a second button to their 'Books, they'd do it in a way that would work...


- Higher price

Generally, new models are introduced at the same price point as previous models...


- Four weeks delivery time

Or, according to some rumors, there might not be an update for the 12" at this time. Way to go, Apple :(

I don't get why people can't cope with high resolutions. That's what font setttings and different icon sizes are for... The whole OS should operate on a dpi basis rather than pixels. Would make things so much easier. I for one wouldn't mind 1280x1024 on the 12" at all. And my roommate's 16" 1600x1200 Dell is very nice to work with. He's running Linux though, so he doesn't face Apple's restrictions on setting system font sizes.


Now, here I have to agree. Apple should open this up to user control...

[Bruja]

Yeah.. whatever. I knew this would happen :rolleyes:

[AllenPSU]

Originally posted by actionslacks
Do we really need another rumor round up?

Clearly NO ONE KNOWS when they are coming.

Doesn't seem to be much basis for this rumor. I guess they don't want us to forget that we are expecting PB updates.

[MattG]

I CAN'T TAKE ANYMORE!

Somebody just wake me up once the new PBs are announced.

[cplater]

Originally posted by Abstract
Shut up.......just shut up about the PB's. :( These stupid August dates didn't sound right anyway. September always seemed more logical, and yet I allowed this rumour to get my hopes up anyway. ****!!!! :mad:

These August dates fit exactly with the year end spending cycle that most Universities deal with. Our fiscal year is over at the end of September, and as such, all purchases have to be completed by September 5th so they can audit and close the books. I have been waiting for the update to avoid the situation that happened after my last purchase, where the TiBooks were upgraded about a month after I had received my 500MHz PBG4. I still have one more week before I HAVE to submit my order, and while I'm very impatient, I'm going to hold out, just in case they do update them by next Friday.

[rufwork]

Originally posted by AllenPSU
Doesn't seem to be much basis for this rumor. I guess they don't want us to forget that we are expecting PB updates.

Well I, for one, had started wondering if the rumor sites had forgotten us. Without my daily Powerbook rumor I find I start wishing for a G5 tower instead... ;^)

[dietsoda]

I for one wouldn't mind 1280x1024 on the 12" at all.

Here here! I'm fed up with people saying that any higher resolution would make things illegible, if this is the case for you then either buy some reading glasses, or an iBook. Or better still, euthanise yourself, Logan's Run style. Okay, maybe that's too severe, but I'm soooooo bored of waiting and waiting for these updates.

The last computer I bought personally was the Dual 500mhz G4. I bought it through my company, and so it took 6 weeks to arrive. The day after it arrived, the G4's were updated. Gutted. Although I was glad to escape the 'Digital Audio' revision.

I've been waiting for the 15" since January, checking macrumors at least once a day! Now that it's dragged on so much, i think I might go with the 12" when they're updated, and trade it in when the 15" G5 finally arrives.

[Lancetx]

These PowerBook rumors are really getting out of hand. It's painfully obvious that no one has a clue as to when these will be coming, nor any clue as to what features they will have. The credibility of all of these "sources" is literally less than zero right now, I've never seen so much inaccurate speculation/wishful thinking going on in my life. Personally, I would be shocked if anything happens prior to Paris in late September. The bottom line is that they will come when Apple is good and ready for them to....and not one day earlier. Having a heart attack over these rumors will not speed up their release one single bit...

[brucku]

Waiting for Back To The Future on dvd (original rumor was oct 1997)

Waiting for Prodigy's Followup Album to Fat of the Land (Original Release date was sometime in 2001)

But I waited for these for a long time........ Sometimes things come out... and sometimes they don't. For the record, BTTF came out this year and prodigy's album is still yet to be released
.


Just comparing how long i've been kept waiting at the end of a fish hook.

[bikertwin]

Get a grip on screen resolution, folks.

If any of you were using computers in the early '90s, you'll remember that the rule of thumb for monitors is: get at least a .28 dot pitch, or the screen is low quality and will look fuzzy. Guess what? A 15" 1024x768 (i.e. iMac G4) screen is a lowly .30 dot pitch. It's way too low a resolution.

The 12-inch iBook is something like .26 or .25 resolution. The current 15" PowerBook is somewhere around .28 dot pitch.

The PowerBook is their pro model, and all their pro apps (Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Soundtrack, LiveType, etc.) cry out desperately for a PowerBook with increased resolution.

Apple, please deliver a much higher resolution for the new PowerBook. I can deal with a G4, but it has to be a higher resolution, or I'll resort to a desktop.

[CmdrLaForge]

Originally posted by centauratlas
The only reason to hold back for a big venue like Paris would be a significant change (e.g. G5s or something equally as revolutionary). Merely bringing speed bumps for the 12 and 17, and bringing the 15 up to similar specs (e.g. airport ex etc) doesn't seem to fit the pattern for a big announcement.

Therefore, I don't think they'll hold back for something like that. They'll announce when they are ready. Who knows when that will be and of course it could coincide with Paris anyway, but they wouldn't hold them just for that...the 15 is too old as it is to wait. Likewise, I don't believe the rumors about them being held back to avoid messing with the PM G5s, the 15 is way to old have that be a concern *unless* they were G5 PBs. Otherwise that makes little sense.

Motorola must have screwed them again. I'd love to see them put a G5 (even running at the lowest possible speed in one) just to get them out there. Then speed-bump them as soon as they can. Dumping Motorola asap would be highly beneficial.

I agree. Powerbook G5 is definetly not coming. Therefore something else is holding them back. And its not the Expo. Time to market is important e.g. back to school. If they had the product ready they would anounce it

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by bikertwin
Get a grip on screen resolution, folks.

If any of you were using computers in the early '90s, you'll remember that the rule of thumb for monitors is: get at least a .28 dot pitch, or the screen is low quality and will look fuzzy. Guess what? A 15" 1024x768 (i.e. iMac G4) screen is a lowly .30 dot pitch. It's way too low a resolution.Something else to consider -- font smoothing. Either XP or OSX. As we speak, I'm typing this on a pretty new (cheap) Dell with 1400x1050 on a 14" screen. Yeah, I know, but for serious development work the Powerbooks were too slow and the screen resolution bit for using any serious pro tools.

Anyway, as I work, I'm holding up a letter that received next to the screen. Ya know what? The characters in that (laserprinted) letter are about the same size as the ones on the screen. Screen text was historically larger, because it was much lower resolution and therefore harder to read. The monitor text is significantly larger than the instructions on my sales and use tax return, and I have no problem reading those (as I would guess most people don't, governments are pretty good these days about making it as easy as possible for you to send them money).

To use print terms, this monitor natively runs at 125dpi. The font smoothing uses more intelligent control of the LCD, but realistically only doubles that. Call it an effective 250dpi. Still, that's close to the old 300dpi laser printer effectiveness. My laptop monitor is closer to my eyes now than a piece of paper sitting flat on my desk would be. A 15.4" 1600x1200 monitor would be almost identical, at 129dpi native.

What's the problem?

Finally, most other manufacturers have been able to offer two LCD options in the same laptop line -- Dell, for instance, offers this laptop in a 90dpi version (14" @ 1024x768) as well. Of course, then the system text will be larger, and jaggier... and font smoothing wouldn't work as well... but if you want its, its an option when you order them. Its not hard to keep two prebuilt bezels ready to connect, after all.

-Richard

[chazmox]

I've been saying all along that there was no real evidence for the 15.4. Not that the 15.4 rumor was wrong - just that there was no evidence for it.

Digitimes and MacWhispers promoted this size and tied it to a Feb/Mar release date. With the claimed release date incorrect, there is no reason to believe the corresponding size rumor - ergo, no proof.

BTW, have you heard? MacWhispers is dead! Jack says that he's getting out of the site because of all the controversy he's caused...

Ding dong, the wicked witch is dead!

[arn]

Originally posted by actionslacks
Ok, but very minor.

Why is this page 1? It seems in line with the multiple rumors that have appeared on page 2, yet doesn't supply any strong info.


We know 2 things with reasonable certainty.

1) 15.2" screen
2) illuminated keyboard

rumors that stated or state differently are probably incorrect.

arn

[markajor]

i was going to give mac a try for my next laptop.
this was about mid-july and i've been addicted to
this site waiting every day for the 15" pb update.
But alas, NO MORE ! I QUIT back to pc land where
things might crash, BUT they do ship and not play
all of these mindgames !

15" PB.......... YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK !....goodbye

[pimentoLoaf]

I'm even more in the market for one of these things (and a G5 desktop) after my PC was just hit by Mr Big (http://www.sarc.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.sobig.f@mm.html).

I'll send my Toshiba PC to my brother. He hates Macs.

[whatever]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
i know the feeling. i had this girlfriend a few years ago who would't...OH, you meant something else. my fault. sorry.

That was one of the best lines here in a while!

Keep up the humor all.

I hear that it's actually the iBook refresh (moving to G4) which is slowing this whole thing down. Granted I over heard this from one of the voices in my head talking to another voice.

[abram]

OK, I just can't stay silent on this any longer:

Higher resolution does NOT mean smaller fonts! Higher resolution only means that you can put more detail into the same physical area, just like with high resolution printers. And nobody says "I don't like high-resolution printers, because the text is too small".

The problem is that traditionally operating systems have handled on-screen fonts in PIXEL sizes, rather than point size. This means that as the size of pixels get smaller (as resolution increases), the size of each character will decrease as well. But this is no longer the case with most modern operating systems (except Windows), especially OS X, which has excellent text- and image-scaling capabilities. Higher resolution does NOT have to change the size of the characters on the screen. It does, however, let each character be drawn in greater detail, with less pixilation and/or blurriness. The result: Easier to read text.

You can all be assured that Apple has an excellent understanding of these issues, and will use intellegent font handling when they release higher resolution displays, to prevent shipping laptops with tiny, unreadable fonts.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by markajor
i was going to give mac a try for my next laptop.
this was about mid-july and i've been addicted to
this site waiting every day for the 15" pb update.
But alas, NO MORE ! I QUIT back to pc land where
things might crash, BUT they do ship and not play
all of these mindgames !

15" PB.......... YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK !....goodbye

Huh? How has Apple been playing mind games about the PB15? They've made no announcement. It's all of us that are playing the mind games with each other - Apple is not fueling the expectation at all.

We know 2 things with reasonable certainty.

1) 15.2" screen
2) illuminated keyboard

rumors that stated or state differently are probably incorrect.

arn

Damn, arn, I sometimes wish I knew how you know - it sounds like someone's actually seen one - and I really wish that the release date could be known with the same certainty!!!

[srobert]

15" Powerbooks are soooooo early august 2003. *sigh!* You guys really got to freshen' up. I'm savin' my pennies for the all new 5" Powerbook coming out next tuesday.

http://homepage.mac.com/srobert/.Pictures/powerbook-g4_5.jpg

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by abram
most modern operating systems (except Windows), especially OS X, which has excellent text- and image-scaling capabilities. Higher resolution does NOT have to change the size of the characters on the screen. It does, however, let each character be drawn in greater detail, with less pixilation and/or blurriness. The result: Easier to read text.

On Windows XP, the path is

Control Panel -> Display -> Settings -> Advanced

On the default tab ("General"), you can choose "small" or "large", or dial in a custom setting.

It's not very dynamic, but it's perfect for doing a global font size change to compensate for very high resolution screens.

I have the a Dell D600 laptop with the 14" 1400x1050 monitor. I set the text to a better size. With the ClearType font smoothing, the text is really nice.

I really enjoy the extra real estate, and especially like that I have more pixels for digital photos (looking at a 5 Mpixel photo on a 14" 1024x768 is somewhat lacking - it seems much sharper on the 14" 1400x1050).

[abram]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
On Windows XP, the path is
Control Panel -> Display -> Settings -> Advanced

Thanks for the correction... make that ALL modern operating systems :)

[MasterMac]

Originally posted by srobert
15" Powerbooks are soooooo early august 2003. *sigh!* You guys really got to freshen' up. I'm savin' my pennies for the all new 5" Powerbook coming out next tuesday.

http://homepage.mac.com/srobert/.Pictures/powerbook-g4_5.jpg

lol! Great pic ;)

Anyway, it's 7:30 Pacific Time and nothing, no new PBs yet....I hope I'm just early :(

[joking]

New powerbooks are not updated yet because the supply for the old ones is not completely depleted yet. Apple has always done this over the years. Until old powerbooks are gone, new ones will not appear.

[ozlow]

Is apple going to have a presence at Seybold? I know that in the past they've released product at Seybold. Maybe they're waiting for that???

[the future]

Originally posted by markajor
i was going to give mac a try for my next laptop.
this was about mid-july and i've been addicted to
this site waiting every day for the 15" pb update.
But alas, NO MORE ! I QUIT back to pc land where
things might crash, BUT they do ship and not play
all of these mindgames !

15" PB.......... YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK !....goodbye

Nooooooooooooooooooooo! Don't do this, man! You'll be so pissed off when you get a PC laptop and the next day (or the next tuesday) a shiny 15'' AluBook is released. Come on, it can't be much longer now! Keep the faith!

[srobert]

Originally posted by MasterMac
lol! Great pic ;)

Thanks for not pointing out the fact that the latch could not work ^_^ I did'nt bother makinkg it work... kinda 4 fingered cartoons thingy... it's not worth the trouble.

[agentmouthwash]

What Apple should of done:
Release upgraded Powerbooks in June or July- even if it's just an updated Al15" and upgraded video cards for the 12" and 17" and possibly more HD space. Even if it were the 1.25Ghz 7455 - It would of been on time for the school spending spree that Apple is missing out on...
then that would hold most people over until next year when the Powerbook G5
comes out.


What Apple should do:
come out with a $199 5gb ipod because not everybody needs to cram thousands of songs onto one. Plus there needs to be a cheaper model for people that can't afford 300 bucks for a music player.

Same thing goes for the iBook. Please compete with Dell and try to get a $799 ibook. Even if it's just good for the web and wordprocessing - that's what most of the world does anyway.

[crenz]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Wishing for technology that doesn't exist? Although I haven't made an exhaustive search, a preliminary search showed no 12" LCDs at any higher resolutions than this, anyway.

Seems you're right, but then I'd expect Apple to create technology. Before they released the 22" and 20" cinema displays, these resolutions were also not so common... in fact, they are still weird today. And e.g. the iMac's display is quite different from the usual 17" display (1280x1024).

128MB built in isn't that bad. Sure, 256MB would be better, but I'd rather be able to plug a 1G chip into the expansion port...


You can (http://www.dsp-memory.de/1gb/). However, last time I checked that set you back by €1000,- or so. Would be nice to have 256 MB to start with.

I suppose the one saving grace it that I'm fairly certain if Apple ever did add a second button to their 'Books, they'd do it in a way that would work...

Maybe they can come up with a button that registers the side it is pressed on and that can be reconfigured to be one- or two-button. Hey, I should get a patent on that :) . I would appreciate two buttons, since it helps to emulate three buttons e.g. for X-Windows applications.

Generally, new models are introduced at the same price point as previous models...

But they had a price cut recently in Europe. Apple Store Germany has the 12" PB for €1854 (US$ 2012), so we're <sarcasm>only paying US$400 more now</sarcasm>. They might keep the US prices, but change the European pricing back when they introduce the new models.

[hose this!]

Originally posted by the future
Nooooooooooooooooooooo! Don't do this, man! You'll be so pissed off when you get a PC laptop and the next day (or the next tuesday) a shiny 15'' AluBook is released. Come on, it can't be much longer now! Keep the faith!

Or the next Tuesday.

Or the next next Tuesday.

No no, the Tuesday after that.

No, it's next Tuesday, I swear!

:D

[stevil]

I started looking for a new Mac two weeks ago. I have never owned one, but used to work with them 5 or so years ago. I started researching, found all these great rumor sites and then thought... should I wait or not? Well - after talking it over with my girlfriend (it's really her computer - I get the dual G5 :D ) we decided to set a date, if there wasn't anything substantial, we'd get what was available.

Two days ago we picked her up a 12" powerbook, a 10gb iPod and a printer - ~$1700 with the educational discount. It's a sweet system, and we couldn't be happier.

[beloit08]

You know what? I just don't care anymore about upgrades to the processor or snazzy new graphics cards or anything. All I really want is the Aluminium case and snazzy keyboard. As soon as I can have a 15" PB and don't have to type on that spongey plastic keyboard, I'll be a happy camper.

And yet, I keep checking the site and getting all the prices mixed up and thinking that the current 1GHz is now the low-end model and I can't take it anymore.

[dwalls32]

Originally posted by stevil
I started looking for a new Mac two weeks ago. I have never owned one, but used to work with them 5 or so years ago. I started researching, found all these great rumor sites and then thought... should I wait or not? Well - after talking it over with my girlfriend (it's really her computer - I get the dual G5 :D ) we decided to set a date, if there wasn't anything substantial, we'd get what was available.

Two days ago we picked her up a 12" powerbook, a 10gb iPod and a printer - ~$1700 with the educational discount. It's a sweet system, and we couldn't be happier.


My girlfriend and I just did the same with my 17" powerbook. I left it in the box, waiting for updates, until last night. I couldn't stand it and ripped into the box. This thing is awesome (and big).

[mactastic]

This is getting to be like the boy who cried wolf. By the time the PB's are updated, no one's gonna believe it.:D

[iEric]

damn when will it freakin' come out....I wanted the 15 inch cause the 17 wont fit into my bag...lol..but the 17 is cool too..
damn dont know what to get...

[RoadMonkey]

Originally posted by nagromme
I wonder if most of the people who buy 1600x1200 laptops really try to work with one first... or just like how the numbers sound, and end up with a less usable/readable display. I'd NEVER buy one, personally.

I have a 1600x1200 laptop and it is the only way to work. I can understand sticking around 1024x768 if you only look at websites, email and use iTunes. But for people that do actual work on them, it is a HUGE concern. If you dont need a Hi-Res large pixel count display, buy a iBook. ;)

[dongmin]

Folks, no new powerbooks this week. (Just checked the Apple store. They're not doing updates to the page any time soon.)

You can all go home now. Join us Monday for our next installment of "PowerBooks... any day now."

Get this: there are no new PBs because there are no new chips to put in them. No new chips = no new powerbooks. Yes Apple has dropped the ball (like countless times before with the G4). And yes they've lost a lot of customers. But there's nothing they can do about it in the short term. They are at the mercy of Moto. The best they can do is bitch (which they've done), threaten with lawsuits (which they've probably done), and wait.

[Zwiggles]

Could someone please let me know what they think might happen with the pricing of the 15". Will the 1.0GHz drop down close to the price of the current 867MHz, and the 1.25 down to just above the 1.0?

Could some pro provide some insight? What happened after the last update?

Cheers

[Squire]

Originally posted by srobert
15" Powerbooks are soooooo early august 2003. *sigh!* You guys really got to freshen' up. I'm savin' my pennies for the all new 5" Powerbook coming out next tuesday.


This has probably been said a dozen times already but that- the intro then the pic- was hilarious.

What's the resolution on that bad boy, anyway?

On a more serious note, here's a quote from one of the other PowerBook threads:

Originally posted by yujini
Yo, check this out guys.
Though I'm sure most of you guys can't read Korean text at all,
I just checked the korean apple website,
http://www.applestore.co.kr/PowerBook.html

and though most of you won't be able to read one single character, if you look at the 15 inch powerbook sections,
there is a blue text below the 2 options.

If i translate it, it says the stock is low on this option.
You can pre-order it. Please call 080-3404-622 to ask questions.

Wow, this might confirm the fact that they are getting ready to
replace these notebooks very soon!
I have never seen the Korean apple website post something like this saying they were low on stock of any powerbooks. Usually they are never low on stock in korea due to the fact that macs are not even close to 5% of the computer users in Korea. (more like 1% i think)

I went on to say:

Originally posted by Squire
This, in my opinion, is the news many have been waiting for.

The 1% guess is very, very optimistic, in my opinion. I'd say more like 0.5%. They don't sell very many Macs here and they probably aren't going to bother getting any in until the new ones are announced. In the US, there are a lot more buyers. Not here. Stores are still trying to unload 667 MHz PowerBooks for top dollar.

Let me make an analogy. Let's say Apple Computer, Inc. is Audi and there are rumors of a new Audi TT coming out soon. If you're a dealer in Manhattan, this rumor probably won't affect your sales too much due to the customer traffic. So you keep a shiny new TT on the showroom floor despite these rumors. However, if you're the dealer out in [insert backwoods town name here] and you know a replacement is on the way, you'd be a little more reluctant to order an "old" TT for your showroom.

My analogy is weak in a few areas but I'm sure you get the picture. (By the way, I was only comparing Korea to "backwoods town" in terms of sales volume. The Mac loyalists here are just as knowledgeable about upcoming product announcements as anywhere, it's just that their numbers are fewer.)

Good heads up, yujini. Not a bad first post at all. ;) The Korean Apple Store would be the last place I'd expect to see a hint of future releases. (The online store's only been open for about 6 months.)


Squire

[MasterMac]

Originally posted by Squire
This has probably been said a dozen times already but that- the intro then the pic- was hilarious.

What's the resolution on that bad boy, anyway?

On a more serious note, here's a quote from one of the other PowerBook threads:

[something that someone else said]

I went on to say:

[something that i said]


Squire

That sounds good. I just wonder why Apple can't just announce the new PBs and put the old ones at a lower price and if the new ones aren't ready yet you can preorder them =/

[chomsky]

Originally posted by VirtualInsanity

Mac is alienating its faithful followers by consistently not putting out.


To the contrary, the more these rumors come and go, the more I become convinced that 'the faithful' are willing to put up with almost any abuse from Apple. The posts I read usually say something like: "Damnit apple, i'll never buy a computer from anybody but you, but please give us the powerbooks."

With this sort of brand loyalty, what is Apple's motivation for timely releases? The worst thing that will happen is that they will miss out on potential switchers.

[Squire]

Originally posted by MasterMac
That sounds good. I just wonder why Apple can't just announce the new PBs and put the old ones at a lower price and if the new ones aren't ready yet you can preorder them =/

Ummm...That was my (and yujini's) point. On the Apple Online Store in Korea, they have a phone number under the 15" PowerBooks that DOES let you pre-order them.

Squire

[chomsky]

Ladies and Gents, according to the apple store, my 15" has just shipped. My old, Ti 15" powerbook.

Nuts to all these rumors. Old 15" are still shipping.

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by chomsky
To the contrary, the more these rumors come and go, the more I become convinced that 'the faithful' are willing to put up with almost any abuse from Apple. The posts I read usually say something like: "Damnit apple, i'll never buy a computer from anybody but you, but please give us the powerbooks."

With this sort of brand loyalty, what is Apple's motivation for timely releases? The worst thing that will happen is that they will miss out on potential switchers.

Please tell us in what way is Apple abusing their customers? When has Apple come out and promised new PowerBooks and given a specific timetable for their release? Put the blame where it belongs...not on Apple, but on yourselves (those who feel abused) and the inaccurate rumor sites.

To anyone that feels "abused" due to no new PowerBooks being available yet, Apple certainly isn't the one to blame. You have no one to blame but yourself for reading way too much into totally unconfirmed rumors and wishful thinking that has been posted online about this over the past few months. To accuse Apple of any kind of customer abuse here is simply comical...

[VirtualInsanity]

Not abuse, but its very annoying. Apple knows about the back to school market, and they also know people want to buy computers before school begins; they are not stupid. They also know the type of person who buys a powerbook knows something about them since they are so expensive, and this type of person does not want to buy technology that is virtually obsolete. They should at least announce it.

[jocknerd]

Until Apple comes out with some computers with something other than a G4, it really shouldn't matter.

I consider the PowerMac G5's to be the only line of Apple that is competitive right now.

The G4 is about 2-3 years too old.

[MasterMac]

Originally posted by Squire
Ummm...That was my (and yujini's) point. On the Apple Online Store in Korea, they have a phone number under the 15" PowerBooks that DOES let you pre-order them.

Squire I was talking about for everyone else, not just the Koreans ;)

[Squire]

Originally posted by MasterMac
I was talking about for everyone else, not just the Koreans ;)

Then I agree with you. Good idea. ;)

I mean, really, it's not a secret that new PowerBooks will be released soon and some people will buy them regardless of their specs. So, yeah, why don't they let people pre-order? Just say I want a NEW 15" PowerBook when they come out. Here's my $50 deposit.

Squire

[crees!]

Originally posted by markajor
i was going to give mac a try for my next laptop.
this was about mid-july and i've been addicted to
this site waiting every day for the 15" pb update.
But alas, NO MORE ! I QUIT back to pc land where
things might crash, BUT they do ship and not play
all of these mindgames !

15" PB.......... YOU ARE THE WEAKEST LINK !....goodbye

Apple isn't playing any mind games... we are. Apple never said, "oh, it might be this week." Back to PC land my ass. Oh, and like I said in a previous post. People thought this past Tuesday was going to be the day. I say NO, the G5 ad was just posted on Monday... They're not going to put that up then take it down the next day. 2 more weeks was my guess for PB's but next Tuesday could be it. Wishful thinking.. actually, I'm just going to stop thinking about this. This is all stupid. See you all when they _actually_ come out.

[Squire]

Originally posted by crees!
I say NO, the G5 ad was just posted on Monday... They're not going to put that up then take it down the next day. 2 more weeks was my guess for PB's but next Tuesday could be it.

The G5 ad on the Apple site is a good point...maybe.

The Microsoft Office pic was only up for a few days. ;)

Seriously, though, if the PowerBooks only sport minor updates, they might not even be featured on Apple's "front page." I don't think the iBooks were when they jumped to 900MHz. Then again, with such a long wait before updates, they probably will. And if there's something special about the new PowerBooks, they'd definitely be featured. Of course, there's nothing that says two or three products can't share that online real estate. After MWSF, Keynote and the new 12- and 17-inch PowerBooks were featured.

What does all that mean? Next Tuesday?

Squire

[agentmouthwash]

so if Apple is going to wait for Paris perchance it will be a huge announcement.


Do I smell a G5 Powerbook?

Do I smell?

[dietsoda]

Until Apple comes out with some computers with something other than a G4, it really shouldn't matter.

I consider the PowerMac G5's to be the only line of Apple that is competitive right now.

The G4 is about 2-3 years too old

Well I hear what you're saying, but the Xserve line is very competitive right now, and always has been. The xserve, xraid, and xserve cluster node are VERY competitive.

The eMac is pretty good value too.

Of course simply by running OSX they are all competitive.

[cryptochrome]

All these problems with high resolution screens producing text and icons too small to deal with could be solved with a resolution independent interface that can be scaled on the fly. IOW, pixels would not be the basis for what size things appear on the screen. Relative sizes of screen elements would stay the same, but real size could be controlled with a slider, with the 3D card rendering them. Documents could be accurately displayed based on their native scale: Inches/cm/points for word processing, pdfs, vector graphics and such, and pixels for bitmapped images. Web browsers like safari would need to be particularly aware, and provide for adapting documents for visibility, for instance by allowing you to blow up the whole page instead of just the text size. The basics are already covered, thanks to Quartz Extreme. All it really needs now are system APIs and graphics (higher resolution tifs that scale well, or better yet vector graphics) that can take advantage of it, and special methods for taking advantage of and controlling scaling within the new system (default would be system controlling it via a virtual default pixel size).

[stingerman]

Originally posted by stevil
I started looking for a new Mac two weeks ago. I have never owned one, but used to work with them 5 or so years ago. I started researching, found all these great rumor sites and then thought... should I wait or not? Well - after talking it over with my girlfriend (it's really her computer - I get the dual G5 :D ) we decided to set a date, if there wasn't anything substantial, we'd get what was available.

Two days ago we picked her up a 12" powerbook, a 10gb iPod and a printer - ~$1700 with the educational discount. It's a sweet system, and we couldn't be happier.

Sweet. I really like that educational deal and the $300 rebate for buying a Pinter and iPod with it. Just might have to go back to school.

[Fadl]

Why should Apple release a 15,2" non 16:10 format Powerbook?

[alandail]

Originally posted by joking
New powerbooks are not updated yet because the supply for the old ones is not completely depleted yet. Apple has always done this over the years. Until old powerbooks are gone, new ones will not appear.


If that's the only reason, then Apple way overdoes this. Missing back to school season on new models to clear old inventory has to hurt profits (and market share) more than discounting some leftover old models would.

[stockscalper]

Where's my violin ..... ?

[billyboy]

These Chinese whispers are out of hand and Im going to switch back to an Amstrad. As I understand it from all theses rumours, the next Powerbook is going to sport a backlit 5" thick 1600x1200 15.4 Dell lcd screen, come in Korean only with an aluminium keyboard. No wonder Steve Jobs is pissed with the world.

As I sit playing pacman going blind squinting at a tiny green screen, I look forward to Christmas when the best laptop in the world is released with Panther and International iTunes Music Store thrown in. Somehow I think the back-to-school anthem, which is a relatively recent addition to retail marketing hype, is sort of irrelevant in the context of sales generatable around December 25th. So if Apple miss that market opportunity then sheet the bed.

[dantec]

Guys look at the trend of Apple laptops. They've already missed there they're update cycle for the last two updates. It looks to me that they will wait until an october/november release.

The reason is :

1. Motorola processor shortage...
2. Apple wants to update all the powerbooks at the same time because it figures that the 12" and 17" can last a bit longer in the cycle.

But I doubt number 1, because as someone mentioned if the powerbooks were late is was going to be because of the latest motorola G4 which runs at 1.33 ghz. There shouldn't be supply problems with the chip considering it's been shipping for a while with Xserve's, and that the xserve's although they don't ship in quantity, you can still get them in a good timeframe, which then leads me to thinking that Apple is waiting for number 2.

Now why they are waiting for number 2 to me is pointless. Perhaps they think back to school buyers are stupid, and will not realize that the titanium has been a 1ghz for so long now, or they think they can squeeze out a few more months with it, so that they can update all three models simultaneously.

[vrapan]

They also know the type of person whobuys a powerbook knows something about them since they are so expensive, and this type of person doesnot want to buy technology that is virtually obsolete. They should at least announce it.

Here goes the obsolete thing again. Honestly guys I would buy that if and only if the new line of PBs were a G5 or 2GHz one or some sort of dramatic update. As someone else said here " I odnt care about the updates I only want a 15" PB Al with illuminated keyboard" or something like that. So how much more obsolete is a 1GHz machine than a 1.3GHz one ? I mean the updates will be minor for the most part if only to keep the heat down. So what a 1GHz processor in one years time cannot do that the 1.3 will be able to? Just about nothing really. Yes the graphics card is not great but I dont believe that they will stuff a 9600 in there and I dont think that the DDR on the 15" will give it any significant boost given that the G4 cannot take advantage of it... I dont see Apple increasing the resolution and they might include a 2X super drive. So again what one of the new machines will be able to do that the older ones won't?

[dantec]

Originally posted by vrapan
Here goes the obsolete thing again. Honestly guys I would buy that if and only if the new line of PBs were a G5 or 2GHz one or some sort of dramatic update. As someone else said here " I odnt care about the updates I only want a 15" PB Al with illuminated keyboard" or something like that. So how much more obsolete is a 1GHz machine than a 1.3GHz one ? I mean the updates will be minor for the most part if only to keep the heat down. So what a 1GHz processor in one years time cannot do that the 1.3 will be able to? Just about nothing really. Yes the graphics card is not great but I dont believe that they will stuff a 9600 in there and I dont think that the DDR on the 15" will give it any significant boost given that the G4 cannot take advantage of it... I dont see Apple increasing the resolution and they might include a 2X super drive. So again what one of the new machines will be able to do that the older ones won't?

After playing with my mom's 12" powerbook, I have to say the speed is not bothering me. Hell my 667 DVI powerbook is just about fine for speed (well i'm also running 10.3), but even in 10.2 its good enough. What I jsut really like is the Alu enclosure, a lot more sturdy and i'm so pissed with my tibook paint chips. Also the keyboard on the alubooks is a lot nicer and smoother and doesn't have this plastiky feel to it.

That is why I want apple to release new 15" Alubooks !

[sacrilicious]

Originally posted by billyboy
These Chinese whispers are out of hand and Im going to switch back to an Amstrad. As I understand it from all theses rumours, the next Powerbook is going to sport a backlit 5" thick 1600x1200 15.4 Dell lcd screen, come in Korean only with an aluminium keyboard. No wonder Steve Jobs is pissed with the world.

As I sit playing pacman going blind squinting at a tiny green screen, I look forward to Christmas when the best laptop in the world is released with Panther and International iTunes Music Store thrown in. Somehow I think the back-to-school anthem, which is a relatively recent addition to retail marketing hype, is sort of irrelevant in the context of sales generatable around December 25th. So if Apple miss that market opportunity then sheet the bed.

Since Motorola is unable to make enough chips, the the 15.4" was clearly marked for Dell, the only choice was to make a PowerBook without a CPU or a big screen, leaving us with a portable DVD player (hardware decoding) and a leftover 15" keyboard. This, my friends, is the rumored video iPod.

[Titian]

Could someone explain me for which reasons Apple could not be able to release in the next month or two a G5 PB?

I haven't followed the whole discussion about PB with all its technical reasons in the last months but since my wife needs a PB I am trying to catch up.
... just don't know if I should wait for the next processor (not Moto) in the PB.

[Mason]

Does anyone have a link to a picture of the new aluminum 15" PBs? I'd really like to see a picture of the illumintaed keyboard.

Thanks.

[AllenPSU]

Originally posted by dantec
Guys look at the trend of Apple laptops. They've already missed there they're update cycle for the last two updates. It looks to me that they will wait until an october/november release.

The reason is :

1. Motorola processor shortage...
....

But I doubt number 1, because as someone mentioned if the powerbooks were late is was going to be because of the latest motorola G4 which runs at 1.33 ghz. There shouldn't be supply problems with the chip considering it's been shipping for a while with Xserve's...

I believe the XServe uses a different version of the G4. The low power G4 is the chip of concern with the laptops.

[AllenPSU]

Originally posted by Titian
Could someone explain me for which reasons Apple could not be able to release in the next month or two a G5 PB?

I haven't followed the whole discussion about PB with all its technical reasons in the last months but since my wife needs a PB I am trying to catch up.
... just don't know if I should wait for the next processor (not Moto) in the PB.

This is just my opinion and is basically what I posed on a different thread.

------ OLD TEXT FOLLOWS ------
Just found the IBM's published power levels on the G5:

1.8 GHz @ 1.3 Volts = 43 Watts

That is too high for a portable

1.1 GHz @ 1.1 Voltes = 19 Watts
(This is below IBM's target frequencies)

Still a little high but you can make it work.

These are based on the .13 uM CMOS technology with their copper interconnects.

From these specification I don't see a G5 running above 1GHz in a laptop and probably won't see one until the Fishkill plant is up and running.

For those of you who really need the specs:
http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A1387A29AC1C2AE087256C5200611780

[agentmouthwash]

I just came back from the Apple store on Long Island NY. I wanted to check out the G5...

well anyways I asked around about the powerbook updates and nobody knew anything.They just said people ask them everyday about it.

I'm guessing Apple thinks the current lineup is fine and they aren't going to update them for a while.

[Cantab]

Originally posted by Mason
Does anyone have a link to a picture of the new aluminum 15" PBs? I'd really like to see a picture of the illumintaed keyboard.


They don't exist yet.

[Mason]

Originally posted by Cantab
They don't exist yet.

Thanks.

The way everyone had been talking I just assumed they had seen them.

[shecky]

I am starting to get nervous about even being able to find a current TiBook to buy (i know they are in stock now here and there, but for how much longer), and I can NOT be without a unit for school, so here is my Master Plan:

Monday, goto my local Apple store and purchase a 15" Superdrive TiBook, Applecare, 15GB iPod, HP 7350 Photosmart printer for $3056 at my student discount (I also get $300 back in the mail)

Wait for the next 2 Tuesdays to see if anything is announced, if it is, I am within my 10 day return policy to make a switch. I will make that judgement based on what is announced, and how much the price difference is. Since I assume that the $300 rebate will NOT be honored on the new Powerbook (tho i could be wrong) that may be a tough call. $2756 for that above package is a pretty damn good deal. In fact, that price is about $739 cheaper than current retail on those items, and it is about $1040 cheaper than the normal selling price of that TiBook of $2899. Those numbers make me think that there would need to be something seriously noteworthy on the new AlBook to make me spend an extra $1000 (since I assume the new AlBook will price point at or about $2899)

If i had a gun to my head and had to place a bet, i do not think we will see announcements untill Expo Paris on Sept 16th. I am HOPEING to see something Tuesday, but I really am starting to doubt it.

thats my story and I am sticking to it.

::edited for arithmetic::

[actionslacks]

Originally posted by arn
We know 2 things with reasonable certainty.

1) 15.2" screen
2) illuminated keyboard

rumors that stated or state differently are probably incorrect.

arn

Okay Fine. I guess I suck at reading between the lines.

I still think that neither of these two things is worth any hype. the current Powerbook has a 15.2 and the illuminated keyboard is not THAT cool.

[MattG]

Originally posted by actionslacks
Okay Fine. I guess I suck at reading between the lines.

I still think that neither of these two things is worth any hype. the current Powerbook has a 15.2 and the illuminated keyboard is not THAT cool. No one ever said that those two things are worth any hype. All that's being said is that those are the only two features that are pretty much confirmed.

[iPC]

For everyone that whines and moans about screen resolution; STOP. The PB has a low resolution, especially for hardware that is supposed to be used in the graphics industry. Think of it this way, those nice new digital cameras take pictures how big? Wouldn't it be great if they could fit more on the screen while doing PS work? I think so. People that say "but the fonts and icons are too small" obviously don't know enough that those can be resized. :rolleyes:

Us potential switchers (I have a iPod so far...) have been given choices. With the Mac, there is not much choice. We want more choices. If there were more, there would be more switchers. I can only presume that is what Apple wants...?

[magitekkn]

Originally posted by AllenPSU
------ OLD TEXT FOLLOWS ------
Just found the IBM's published power levels on the G5:

1.8 GHz @ 1.3 Volts = 43 Watts

That is too high for a portable

1.1 GHz @ 1.1 Voltes = 19 Watts
(This is below IBM's target frequencies)

Still a little high but you can make it work.


A few things about that: [all voltages refer to core voltages]

1) The document you reference is from The Microprocessor Forum in October 2002, which is noted at the bottom of the slide that the power consumption ratings are only an estimate.

2) The document you cite offers 1.2GHz (rather than 1.1GHz) at 1.1v with a power dissipation of 19W (max or avg we don't know)

3) According to MPC7455 documents from motorola, the 7455 (Part no. PPC7455RX1000LC referenced) dissipates Typically 21.3W and at max 30W at 1.6V.

4) Power dissipation on the current G4 Powerbooks is further exacerbated by the addition of 1MB of L3 cache. While I don't have the part number for the cache and therefore cannot examine the power ratings, I would imagine Apple considers this a considerable power drain since L3 cache is disabled by Power management while operating in low power mode.


By switching to a G5, Power dissipation from the processor alone could be lowered by between 2.3W and 11W (while that alone would most likely not increase battery life by any significant margin, it would hedge against shortening of battery life)

However, I still do not believe that the next generation of PB's will be G5's, I am simply stating that a G5 system is feasible in terms of power consumption at least in regard to the processor/cache subsystem. System controller, Memory and other systems may make G5's still unwieldy for laptop use in their current 130nm form.

For comparison here are the G4 7457 numbers: taken from http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7457EC.pdf

(note that the power consumption of the 1.3GHz 7457 is even lower than the 1.2GHz G5)

[virtualsid]

Originally posted by iPC
For everyone that whines and moans about screen resolution; STOP. The PB has a low resolution, especially for hardware that is supposed to be used in the graphics industry. Think of it this way, those nice new digital cameras take pictures how big? Wouldn't it be great if they could fit more on the screen while doing PS work? I think so. People that say "but the fonts and icons are too small" obviously don't know enough that those can be resized. :rolleyes:


Thanks for that - when I first wrote what I wrote, I thought I was on my own wanting a higher resolution ;)

Sid

[erik19]

Howdy folks, firet time poster here, although I've been lurking(ok i've chomped right through it and am now working on my tongue)...

Could all these supposed 'delays', among other things, mean a better graphics chip? What is the best we could expect from ATI? 9600? Anything above 64mb?

Apple shouldn't go welfare on the graphics chip like they did with the iMac.

Hope my tongue is still in one piece by net tuesday.....universityis coming near, although I guess i can take a couple more weks on my old(and i mean OLD) slot loading iMac 400.... *sigh*

[rsnyder@psu.edu]

Each year I purchase Apple Hardware for my department. The total purchase is the in the $80,000 frame. This year it includes a new 17" PB for me and several xServes. Normally I would have placed the order at the end of June and paid for it in July (end of Apple's 3rd Quarter, start of my new fiscal year).

This year I am still holding pat. I need to wait for the G5 xServes because they are four year investments. I run WebObjects applications and the xServes are replacing 64 bit Sun boxes. So I am waiting.

Likewise, the PowerBook is due for revisions. I do not want to purchase a half dozen 1Ghz 17" PBs only to have the 1.33Ghz come out after my order.

The issue now is coming down to how long I can wait it out, and how much Apple needs to juice up its fourth quarter financials.

Let's face it, the G5 was announced at WWDC, but is just shipping now. If Apple wants to pick up its 4th Quarter, announcing and taking orders now is better than waiting until too late in September to get the orders in.

I am sure they want to get more sales out of their existing 12"-17" PBs, but the 15" Ti is way long in the tooth. I surely am not purchasing any Ti Books. They just aren't durrible enough.

So we wait . . . me with my Purchase Order, them with their pending releases. I am keen to see which of us blinks first.

[robodweeb]

Originally posted by chomsky
To the contrary, the more these rumors come and go, the more I become convinced that 'the faithful' are willing to put up with almost any abuse from Apple.

Hear, hear!

Sadly, businesses are not "the faithful" and they have to make purchasing decisions based on reasonably accurate information (whether the info is good, bad, or ugly). I don't fault Apple for Motorola's problems. I do fault them for being unwilling to admit a problem, take the short-term hit to their stock price, and stave off the uncertainty and speculation that blows such problems out of proportion.

Had Apple announced in May that there was a continuing problem in their receipt of components (without specifically mentioning Motorola) for their next upgrade of the Powerbook line and that a 6 month delay was expected, consumers of Apple products would be able to decide whether to buy or delay rather than wait and guess and get consistently frustrated. The short-term hit to their stock price would've been recovered in the iTMS and G5 announcements. Many would even give Apple kudos for its commitment to its customers.

People are realistic and understand about supplier delays ... if they know about them, that is. What they don't understand is the "cone of silence" about problems that seems to have descended around Apple. And its reasonable for them to do so. While it's true that Apple made no explicit commitments about shipping updated PBs, Apple has purposefully hyped its delivery of new, "insanely great" products and people establish expectations from that past record. Their expectations are real and their computer purchasing decisions are real ... yet Apple's continuing silence suggests a corporate dismissiveness of these very reals concerns of its market. And people wonder why Apple's market share continues to decline.

PCs and Windows may not satisfy to the extent that Macs do, but they do "satisfice" (that's a real term, google it) enough for them to make their purchasing decisions.

Now, as I near the 1 month mark of using the Toshiba laptop that my company was forced to buy under a technology refresh requirement (because they had no credible information from Apple to justify further delay ... and, yes, such requirements are a routine part of corporate and government work), I'm heartsick to report that I'm at least as productive with it as I have been with a Mac OS X system. I'm not a troll here ... I've been a die-hard Mac user since 1987. But I can't keep my life on hold to appease Apple's (or Steve's) arrogant whimsy. Yes, I'm having to learn a new OS (XP) and I'm anxious about Microsoft's attitude towards its users as well as potential hardware defects that may surface ... but these concerns are not onerous as yet.

I guess it's about time to dump my Apple stock ... I would rather deal with a Microsoft OS than Apple's arrogance and intransigence any longer ...

[cb911]

okay, so no new PowerBooks, this week. One of the sites said that they could come in the next couple of weeks, but who knows, they might just have been trying to cover themselves.

at this rate we might be seeing G5 PowerBooks this year. You just don't keep a revision of PowerBooks going for so long to give it a 250-330MHz speedbump. Apple has been working on something, and they have been unusually tight lipped about the PowerBook specs, and it feels to me like there have been a unusually low number of rumors. and we all know that Apple is really good at keeping secrets for big products...

Apple might release a PowerBook G5 in the next couple of months considering that they have now waited this long. Apple has also gone and made big jumps in the PowerBook line before. remember when the 1GHz TiBooks came in? everyone wasn't expecting 1GHz, maybe 933MHz. and no one was expecting a SuperDrive.

[agentmouthwash]

Originally posted by robodweeb
Hear, hear!

Sadly, businesses are not "the faithful" and they have to make purchasing decisions based on reasonably accurate information (whether the info is good, bad, or ugly). I don't fault Apple for Motorola's problems. I do fault them for being unwilling to admit a problem, take the short-term hit to their stock price, and stave off the uncertainty and speculation that blows such problems out of proportion.

Had Apple announced in May that there was a continuing problem in their receipt of components (without specifically mentioning Motorola) for their next upgrade of the Powerbook line and that a 6 month delay was expected, consumers of Apple products would be able to decide whether to buy or delay rather than wait and guess and get consistently frustrated. The short-term hit to their stock price would've been recovered in the iTMS and G5 announcements. Many would even give Apple kudos for its commitment to its customers.

People are realistic and understand about supplier delays ... if they know about them, that is. What they don't understand is the "cone of silence" about problems that seems to have descended around Apple. And its reasonable for them to do so. While it's true that Apple made no explicit commitments about shipping updated PBs, Apple has purposefully hyped its delivery of new, "insanely great" products and people establish expectations from that past record. Their expectations are real and their computer purchasing decisions are real ... yet Apple's continuing silence suggests a corporate dismissiveness of these very reals concerns of its market. And people wonder why Apple's market share continues to decline.

PCs and Windows may not satisfy to the extent that Macs do, but they do "satisfice" (that's a real term, google it) enough for them to make their purchasing decisions.

Now, as I near the 1 month mark of using the Toshiba laptop that my company was forced to buy under a technology refresh requirement (because they had no credible information from Apple to justify further delay ... and, yes, such requirements are a routine part of corporate and government work), I'm heartsick to report that I'm at least as productive with it as I have been with a Mac OS X system. I'm not a troll here ... I've been a die-hard Mac user since 1987. But I can't keep my life on hold to appease Apple's (or Steve's) arrogant whimsy. Yes, I'm having to learn a new OS (XP) and I'm anxious about Microsoft's attitude towards its users as well as potential hardware defects that may surface ... but these concerns are not onerous as yet.

I guess it's about time to dump my Apple stock ... I would rather deal with a Microsoft OS than Apple's arrogance and intransigence any longer ...


PC TROLL!!

[avus]

Originally posted by Lancetx
Please tell us in what way is Apple abusing their customers? When has Apple come out and promised new PowerBooks and given a specific timetable for their release? Put the blame where it belongs...not on Apple, but on yourselves (those who feel abused) and the inaccurate rumor sites.

To anyone that feels "abused" due to no new PowerBooks being available yet, Apple certainly isn't the one to blame. You have no one to blame but yourself for reading way too much into totally unconfirmed rumors and wishful thinking that has been posted online about this over the past few months. To accuse Apple of any kind of customer abuse here is simply comical...

Well said.

[vrapan]

Robodweeb

I do agree that keeping silent about a minor update does not help anyone although I can understand that attitude for major new products or updates however i have to add these:

One thing of how MS treats its customers: I had an HP that came with XP preloaded. I changed the HD with a faster model. I had to call and as being a thief explain to them why i needed the new code. A few months later i changed the Graphics card and the ethernet card. I had to call again and beg for a number. The last time my hard drive crashed and so i had to call once more at which time they didnt give me one. so i had to hack it and install the windows on a HD like a thief. Although I had paid for that.

Second experience with MS: They said that we have to update the machines with SP1 for security reasons. I did and the SP1 messed my machine so badly that i had to do a reinstall. And because a few of the updates were not available alone i decided to call them. I did and they did not acknowledge it although it was everywhere nad kept telling me i had to install the SP1 i did and messed up again. Longo story short I never installed the SP1. Tha machine was a new then Sony Z505D laptop preinstalled with XP.

One more when I was trying to install my new graphics card windows put their drivers as soon as they saw the card. When i tried to over ride them with the newest one from the net they messed up and my resolution went back to 640X480. I remove the drivers while having the CD with the original drivers in the CD Reader. I was told to restart the system. Windows again did their thing with PnP installed their drivers never asking if i had some drivers again everything messed up. Call MS they have no idea of course i have to call ATI. I had to go into bios disable PnP install the drivers form the CD go back to bios and re enable it. 9 years a daily PC user programmer tweaker call me whatever you will and only thing i had from windows was problems.

It is going to take me much more than a highly anticipated but unannounced product to give up Apple.

[uberman42]

Isn't it funny that when the last update happened in november, before the actual anouncement of its availability, people were throwing a hissy fit of when the update was to occur and the update was too late. But then Apple delivered it, people crapped their pants. I believe apple will deliver a pants crapper soon. But people- drink a merlot, take a walk, enjoy reading a book or graphic novel, and check the apple store once a day. You know, just to check and see. And once it occurs, just smile and break out your Visa or mastercard (or both if you need to max out one and pay the rest with the other). We have to chill. From the famous words of Jules Winnfield (Samuel Jackson) in Pulp Fiction, "Be cool B*@%h!".

[MrSugar]

I just wanted to clear some things up about the back to school sales. While I agree that it is lame apple didn't release any new PB for the back to school crowd, myself included. I have to say that I don't think they are doing bad, I was up at CU (University of Colorado) to see some of my friends dorms and I saw a ton of Ibook and Powerbooks. While this rumors forum makes up for the most hardcore of the Mac users. Most people that bought PB's. Esspecially the student crowd don't know nor do they care about when the new PB's will be out. Hell, even I who have been keeping up on PB rumors since early june in anticipation for my first mac ended up getting a 17, which I love btw. The point is that if you are gonna get a mac you will, if you don't because of "speed reasons" then you shouldn't be a mac user anyway.

To futher my point I want to explain to you guys what I have seen since I recieved my new 17, I have compared it to quite a few laptops. Most PC laptops are, twice as thick, and twice as hot, I am not kidding, I sit with this 17 on my lap right now in shorts with no complaints. At first when I ordered the 17 I wondered if I had made the wrong descision not going PC, but I really have done some comparing with some fellows back to school laptop buyers. My laptop seems to come out on top, rather it's browsing multiple windows at a nice speed, using photoshop, playing music, hooking up via svideo to watch some movies, or just sitting here on my couch browsing the web not having to worry about where to plug my P4 in.

So my word to all of you is that Apple, is still, although a year behind, the best laptop on the market. The 15 is still good (take a look at 15 to 17 benchmarks if you doubt it) keeping up.

Apple is everything you need, a sexy OS, a thin clean laptop, with a good battery life and enough power to satisfy all but the Maya professionals of the world. In which case you better have a desktop with dual monitors anyway.

I agree apple is behind on the updates, but take a second and look at how amazing the already current line of products is, because it is just that, amazing.

-Bruce

[rjwill246]

Originally posted by robodweeb
Hear, hear!

I don't fault Apple for Motorola's problems. I do fault them for being unwilling to admit a problem, take the short-term hit to their stock price, and stave off the uncertainty and speculation that blows such problems out of proportion.

Apple would have been beaten to death by its stockholders had it done this because the truth is: there is no problem. What the hell are you talking about? There is/was plenty of product available to be bought!

Apple has not said anything about its PB updates. Why should it? Just because the rumours are getting out of hand? I think not! It is only rumour driven people that have succumbed to the scenario you have presented. If your company has bought Wintel machines because Apple didn't announce what it was doing with its PBs, they are complete idiots... the current range would more than equal any Wintel laptop and been perfectly okay. There is certainly no stunningly advanced technology in the Wintel line to favour those products. If the company did do this, then they succumbed to FUD... and that would NOT be surprising since IT departments are better at that than the jobs they are meant to do.

[eric_n_dfw]

Speed bumps be damned, I just with they'd release a new 15" with 802.11g and FW800.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by cb911
Apple might release a PowerBook G5 in the next couple of months considering that they have now waited this long. Apple has also gone and made big jumps in the PowerBook line before. remember when the 1GHz TiBooks came in? everyone wasn't expecting 1GHz, maybe 933MHz. and no one was expecting a SuperDrive.

Actually, since PC makers were already putting DVD-R drives in laptops, everyone was whining about why Apple was the only one WITHOUT a SuperDrive.

I doubt that there will be a G5. There might be, but I doubt it. A G5 would have been out by now. That, and Joswiak said in June or July that there won't be a G5 PowerBook for quite awhile (it's in my sig). I don't think late August or early September qualifies for "quite awhile".

[MattG]

The point is that if you are gonna get a mac you will, if you don't because of "speed reasons" then you shouldn't be a mac user anyway. Please don't forget that 'speed reasons' aren't the only reasons why people aren't upgrading. For most people, the 15" size is just right. The 12" is too small, the 17" is too big, but the 15" is juuuuuuust right. Problem is, the 15" is still in that Titanium body, which is more prone to problems than the Aluminum bodies. That's why *I'm* not buying a 15" PB right now--not because of speed, but because right now, Apple simply doesn't make a computer in the form factor that I want.

[wowoah]

Well I just called the store and my 15" PowerBook G4 that had been backordered for ~1 month just finally came in today. So much for new releases, heh heh...

Oh well. A 0.25 GHz jump won't make me too pissed, but if Apple so much as utters the words "G5" and "PowerBook" within the next four months I'll be sooooooooo mad...

(Not that it's their fault. Not at all. :P)

[MrSugar]

Originally posted by MattG
Please don't forget that 'speed reasons' aren't the only reasons why people aren't upgrading. For most people, the 15" size is just right. The 12" is too small, the 17" is too big, but the 15" is juuuuuuust right. Problem is, the 15" is still in that Titanium body, which is more prone to problems than the Aluminum bodies. That's why *I'm* not buying a 15" PB right now--not because of speed, but because right now, Apple simply doesn't make a computer in the form factor that I want.

Yes, this is completely understandable, I agree, I wanted a 15 as well. While I do not understand the non-al body of the 15, my point is purely that even with the 15 in it's TiBook state, it is still an amazing laptop compared to the windows world. Now comparing it to other apple products (17 and 12) with the Al casing, it does show it's age.

However, if you had to get a laptop right now the current 15 would be the best 15 you could get, am I wrong?

-Bruce

[erik19]

Originally posted by uberman42
I believe apple will deliver a pants crapper soon.

me too......I'm willing to wait for a "pants crapper"... (damn, i like the sound of that) :)

[rsnyder@psu.edu]

People take this stuff way to personally.

I am not holding back on my purchases because of the rumors. I am sitting on my purchases because it is my responsibility to get the most for my company's money.

Look at the historical revision cycle for the PowerBook. We are at or past the end of a cycle.

Look at the fact that they are selling 32 bit servers when they have a 64 bit desktop systems. If Apple wants me to replace my Sun boxes, they have to give me comperable boxes.

Look at the PowerBook line . . . two alumnium books and a VERY old Ti Book.

The Ti Books were cool, but not durrible. Why buy more headaches from Ti MiddleBooks when Ti is clearly being replaced with Alumnium?

The bottom line is I need to leverage my iMac and G5 purchases, along with PowerBook and xServe/xRaid purchases, to get the best overall deal for my company's money.

Believe me, I am not the only volume purchaser who is sitting pat. Talk to the Apple Server reps. They start conversations by acknowledging that they are waiting for the G5 xServes. They try to find uses where 32 bit will be OK (Apache Web Server, anyone), and then are willing to make insainly great price cuts. Still, they know and I know we are talking about yesterday's bread.

So, I wait. September 30 = end of Apple's fiscal year.

The introduction of the G5 started a general slowdown of sales in several key Apple product lines. If Apple does not move fast, I would expect Apple stock to go south on the 4th quarter earnings (unless those stores and the music are able to cover the slow down in hardware sales).

It's all about business.

[agentmouthwash]

Does anybody here besides me actually like the LOOK of the Titanium Powerbook compared to the aluminum ones?

I like the dark keyboard, I like the different color metals...

I would buy one but I want Bluetooth built in and faster airport.

The bluetooth option for the current 15" - is that built inside or would i have a dongle sticking out of the USB port?
Maybe I'll buy one now.

[MrSugar]

Originally posted by rsnyder@psu.edu
People take this stuff way to personally.

I am not holding back on my purchases because of the rumors. I am sitting on my purchases because it is my responsibility to get the most for my company's money.

Look at the historical revision cycle for the PowerBook. We are at or past the end of a cycle.

Look at the fact that they are selling 32 bit servers when they have a 64 bit desktop systems. If Apple wants me to replace my Sun boxes, they have to give me comperable boxes.

Look at the PowerBook line . . . two alumnium books and a VERY old Ti Book.

The Ti Books were cool, but not durrible. Why buy more headaches from Ti MiddleBooks when Ti is clearly being replaced with Alumnium?

The bottom line is I need to leverage my iMac and G5 purchases, along with PowerBook and xServe/xRaid purchases, to get the best overall deal for my company's money.

Believe me, I am not the only volume purchaser who is sitting pat. Talk to the Apple Server reps. They start conversations by acknowledging that they are waiting for the G5 xServes. They try to find uses where 32 bit will be OK (Apache Web Server, anyone), and then are willing to make insainly great price cuts. Still, they know and I know we are talking about yesterday's bread.

So, I wait. September 30 = end of Apple's fiscal year.

The introduction of the G5 started a general slowdown of sales in several key Apple product lines. If Apple does not move fast, I would expect Apple stock to go south on the 4th quarter earnings (unless those stores and the music are able to cover the slow down in hardware sales).

It's all about business.

Apple stocks go down with the THOUSANDS of g5 orders going out? Ha, apple has to be doing better now that it has released a competitor chip to the current desktops on the market.

If not explain why to me please :).

[MattG]

Originally posted by MrSugar
Yes, this is completely understandable, I agree, I wanted a 15 as well. While I do not understand the non-al body of the 15, my point is purely that even with the 15 in it's TiBook state, it is still an amazing laptop even to the windows world. Now comparing it to other apple products (17 and 12) with the Al casing, it does show it's age.

However, if you had to get a laptop right now the current 15 would be the best 15 you could get, am I wrong?

-Bruce Honestly, I don't know how to answer that question. I owned a 15" and I LOVED it in terms of performance, looks, size, weight, etc., however I didn't love having to baby it. It was so fragile. If it weren't for that, I would have no hesitation in going to the Apple store right now and ordering the current top of the line 15". That's why I sold it several months ago, figuring that new 15's were coming out any day now (who knew ;) ). Now, I'm just waiting it out until they're announced. I have my iMac, and I'll have a G5 to replace it soon. I've got my Dell laptop from work (uggh) and I'll continue to lug that 10lb piece of garbage around with me until Apple decides to pull their thumbs out of their asses and release a 15" that I feel is worth buying.

Anyway, if I HAD to buy a laptop right now, I'd probably sell some of my organs and buy a 17".

[sockseller]

I'm guessing single 2.0ghz G5's 15" and 17" coming out on Sept. 16...

[MrSugar]

Originally posted by MattG

Anyway, if I HAD to buy a laptop right now, I'd probably sell some of my organs and buy a 17".

Fair enough, do you think this is why apple doesn't release the 15? Because people (such as myself) are willing to go 17 instead of 15?

It means more money for them, and those who really need a 15 will sacrafice the Al body and built in spiffs?

Honestally though, now that I look back on it and using this current 17 resoltution, I couldn't imagine working with anything smaller.

Whew crazy stuff.

[GeeYouEye]

On a slightly unrelated topic, the association of the 15.4" screen and the Powerbook may have come from the 17" powerbook... the chasis is 15.4" wide.

Just a thought. Personally, I was always surprised by reports that Apple had added 0.2" to the screen.

[crenz]

Originally posted by rsnyder@psu.edu
This year I am still holding pat. I need to wait for the G5 xServes because they are four year investments.

I can understand your position but don't hold your breath. While the G5 would be a nice match for the xServes (IBM wants to use the PPC970 in Blade servers anyway, right?), Apple hasn't made announcements regarding the xServes and there have been virtually no rumors. I guess that it takes a while to develop a stable and professional product using the G5, so we might only see them Spring next year or so.

[MattG]

Fair enough, do you think this is why apple doesn't release the 15? Because people (such as myself) are willing to go 17 instead of 15?

Nah, I think we're reading too much into this. I don't think there's enough people willing to go to a 17" to warranty not releasing a 15"

[vrapan]

I'm guessing single 2.0ghz G5's 15" and 17" coming out on Sept. 16...

Do you live in the same planet we do????

[actionslacks]

Originally posted by MattG
No one ever said that those two things are worth any hype. All that's being said is that those are the only two features that are pretty much confirmed.

Yeah I got that.

It's an opinion. That's why i said 'i just don't think those things are worth the hype".

I am just getting pissed like everyoone else that there is no new 15inch and even pissier about the fact that we have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA when they are coming.

[sockseller]

Originally posted by vrapan
Do you live in the same planet we do????

People would say not updating your bread-and-butter powerbook for 10 months is crazy too...

[sacrilicious]

Originally posted by actionslacks
Yeah I got that.

It's an opinion. That's why i said 'i just don't think those things are worth the hype".

I am just getting pissed like everyoone else that there is no new 15inch and even pissier about the fact that we have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA when they are coming.

And I was so sure, too. That whole ThinkSecret thing had me excited.

[BaDBoY]

meh.... ive decided to purchase a 17" power book. yeh one of the old ones.. i mean.. i DONT think they will get much of a change in terms of hard ware besides a BIT more hard drive space or a SMALL speed bump.

i go to san jose state and apple was having a "demo" day showing apple products. i had a talk with two of the representatives askin about if the power books will be updated anytime soon. he told me he doubts there will be an update on the 17" because the shipping is stated as NEXT BUSINESS DAY shipping. If thats true.. then apple has plenty of stock on 17". He said the 15" have been on back order for quite sometime, as they have been a popular product, although it is the old Ti book. what could this mean?

I think this means the 15" might be the first ones updated, or like someone said.. they wont annouce the upgrades until they sell the entire stock of the old laptops

im starting to really doubt that the updates will come until next month... even possibly at an upcoming event (not expo because they usually debut new products there). he told me there was another event coming up... could it possibly be annouced there? who knows. i mean that rep guy didnt even know much about the updates except on the stock or back order info's. he even told me if they were to be updated next week and if i buy them now, he would help me do a comptuer swap.. (good deal!) so i guess i decided to buy them now, and if they happen to update them next week, then ill get one of the newer ones :)

thats my two cents

[benoda]

I think we are all getting the shaft right now. I don't care whose fault y'all think it is, I say it's Apple's fault. Apple is the company I'm buying this from. No one likes being mislead - Year of the laptop.......pffft. Heck right now you're lucky if you can even find a 15" or 12" in stock. Especially if you're like me and wanted to buy it directly from Apple.com to take advantage of thier 0% interest till 2004.

I was expecting to buy an updated 15" back in April/May. I don't care too much about speed bumps. I do care about updated features (Bluetooth, FW800, APX, keyboard light)

After this week being a let down, I don't expect to see PB updates till Dec. 2003 - when everyone will be saying "Apple doesn't want to miss the Christmas sales season, it's gotta be soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[jjd]

Went to the SoHo store today. I was very lucky to get out of the place without a new 17"er. (I have a 15" 867 with a badly broken hinge and a damaged display case where the hinge broke, and I cannot be bothered paying $500 plus to repair it. Its unacceptably slow anyway). I want to wait for a new 15"er, but seeing those 17"ers just sitting there ready for the taking... Its tempting.

Anyway, the sales assistant told me categorically that there will be no new PB for at least several months and that the machines would not then be available for a couple of months after that. I asked her about stock levels and she claimed that they have PLENTY of all 3 PB's, including the 15"ers. Now, I am not particularly phased by her estimate of the release date for new PB's. I am sure she has no idea (most of the people in the store are clueless). But, unless she flat out lied, the stock levels of PB's in store seem to question a lot of the rumors based on the supposed dearth of supply in the channel.

[neonart]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Actually, since PC makers were already putting DVD-R drives in laptops, everyone was whining about why Apple was the only one WITHOUT a SuperDrive.


Actually there was a couple of PC manufacturers putting large, tray loading, DVD-R drives in their machines. This was only weeks before Apple was the first to put a slot loading SuperDrive in any laptop.

From Tech TV:
"Apple also gets a bonus for having an industry first (not rare for the company), a slot-loading SuperDrive in its high-end PowerBook G4, which clocks speeds at 1 GHz."
http://www.techtv.com/news/print/0,23102,3406755,00.html

It was in fact a huge shock that they managed to do it.

[MattG]

Originally posted by jjd
Went to the SoHo store today. I was very lucky to get out of the place without a new 17"er. (I have a 15" 867 with a badly broken hinge and a damaged display case where the hinge broke, and I cannot be bothered paying $500 plus to repair it. Its unacceptably slow anyway). I want to wait for a new 15"er, but seeing those 17"ers just sitting there ready for the taking... Its tempting.

Anyway, the sales assistant told me categorically that there will be no new PB for at least several months and that the machines would not then be available for a couple of months after that. I asked her about stock levels and she claimed that they have PLENTY of all 3 PB's, including the 15"ers. Now, I am not particularly phased by her estimate of the release date for new PB's. I am sure she has no idea (most of the people in the store are clueless). But, unless she flat out lied, the stock levels of PB's in store seem to question a lot of the rumors based on the supposed dearth of supply in the channel. I hope she's just clueless.

[shecky]

sounds to me like an ignorant employee trying to make a sale. what a maroon.

[brucku]

Originally posted by agentmouthwash
Does anybody here besides me actually like the LOOK of the Titanium Powerbook compared to the aluminum ones?

I like the dark keyboard, I like the different color metals...

I would buy one but I want Bluetooth built in and faster airport.

The bluetooth option for the current 15" - is that built inside or would i have a dongle sticking out of the USB port?
Maybe I'll buy one now.

I have to say I agree with you. I like the dark keyboard look and the feel of the keys. But I will wait for aluminum for a few reasons:

1) USB dongle for bluetooth? Thats B*llsh*t.
2) I live in a small house, but it has very solid walls, my brother's TI book did not get good reception at all in this house, I am expecting the aluminum's improvements in this area to give me the ability to sit on the front porch
3)The black keys make marks on the screen when it is closed, I beleive that this was eliminated by a redesign of the case.
4) The illuminated keys is a very nice touch to a 3k laptop, I'd rather have that whistle if i'm waiting for these other important improvements

[Bruja]

Originally posted by shecky
sounds to me like an ignorant employee trying to make a sale. what a maroon. What if she isn't ignorant?? Could she be telling the truth?? Remember, "Think Secret" said that the Al Pbk was just about to pop. If memory Serves, isnt that a rumours site as well?? I will check the Somerset storre in my neighbourhood to see if they have ample supplies of the "Frankenbook" as wellas the rest of the lines. BTW: The SoHo Store Rocks!!

[Bruja]

I think Mr. Jobs was correct. This IS the year of the laptop!! For wintel makers because they really surpassed Apple in technology and I just heard that Intel's stock is surging because of the surge for PC's. Hey Mr. Jobs, are you reading this?? I hope so, because you have a TON of people dedicated to your company. No matter what is said, 2.8 Ghz. beats 1Ghz. no matter how fast you are able to access the core power of the chip

[ozlow]

Originally posted by jjd
Went to the SoHo store today. I was very lucky to get out of the place without a new 17"er. (I have a 15" 867 with a badly broken hinge and a damaged display case where the hinge broke, and I cannot be bothered paying $500 plus to repair it. Its unacceptably slow anyway). I want to wait for a new 15"er, but seeing those 17"ers just sitting there ready for the taking... Its tempting.

Anyway, the sales assistant told me categorically that there will be no new PB for at least several months and that the machines would not then be available for a couple of months after that. I asked her about stock levels and she claimed that they have PLENTY of all 3 PB's, including the 15"ers. Now, I am not particularly phased by her estimate of the release date for new PB's. I am sure she has no idea (most of the people in the store are clueless). But, unless she flat out lied, the stock levels of PB's in store seem to question a lot of the rumors

based on the supposed dearth of supply in the channel.

The Apple store employees know squat! They haven't got a clue, what the heck they have! I was at the apple store in seattle and the Genius didn't know his head from a hole in the ground. Plus, the sales people were more like... "Yah, Apple's are cool you should get one. Do you want to see how easy it is to download photo's from a digital camera into iPhoto?" I said sure. It than took them 25 minutes to looking for the camera USB cord. I finally said... "would you like to use mine?" with a smile on my face. He said "do you always carry that in your pocket?" I replied. "yes, is that weird?"

[ozlow]

This has to mean something, RIGHT?

http://macteens.com/news_more.php?id=254_0_3_0_C

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by magitekkn
3) According to MPC7455 documents from motorola, the 7455 (Part no. PPC7455RX1000LC referenced) dissipates Typically 21.3W and at max 30W at 1.6V.

Thanks for pulling this data together. Combined with the G5/1.2 @ 19W figure, I think all of this basically shows that a G5 powerbook is theoretically quite possible right now. How soon they actually deploy it is another matter, unfortunately.

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
I doubt that there will be a G5. There might be, but I doubt it. A G5 would have been out by now. That, and Joswiak said in June or July that there won't be a G5 PowerBook for quite awhile (it's in my sig). I don't think late August or early September qualifies for "quite awhile".

I don't think we can take Apple executive comments at face value. I seem to recall Jobs saying "year of the laptop" or something. :D Surely, only one of these statements can be true--Steve or Joz, take your pick.

[dietsoda]

I think Mr. Jobs was correct. This IS the year of the laptop!! For wintel makers because they really surpassed Apple in technology and I just heard that Intel's stock is surging because of the surge for PC's. Hey Mr. Jobs, are you reading this??

Well to all the people moaning about how apple is harming itself, and loosing out big time...

Apple's Share price hits new 52-week high (http://www.spymac.com)

[actionslacks]

Originally posted by GeeYouEye
On a slightly unrelated topic, the association of the 15.4" screen and the Powerbook may have come from the 17" powerbook... the chasis is 15.4" wide.

Just a thought. Personally, I was always surprised by reports that Apple had added 0.2" to the screen.

you are absolutely right. i thought the same thing and therefore never paid attention to the rumors of a 15.4inch book.

[NoPrideELF]

Originally posted by dietsoda
Well to all the people moaning about how apple is harming itself, and loosing out big time...

Apple's Share price hits new 52-week high (http://www.spymac.com)

Okay, MAYBE you're right. But more importantly on my mind than harming theirself.....They are harming me!! Loss of sleep, blind following of empty rumors, physical cravings for an ALbook, Loss of vision from sitting in front of macrumors forums all day (okay, that one goes with the blindness).

[AllenPSU]

Originally posted by magitekkn
A few things about that:

For comparison here are the G4 7457 numbers: taken from http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32bit/doc/data_sheet/MPC7457EC.pdf

(note that the power consumption of the 1.3GHz 7457 is even lower than the 1.2GHz G5)

Okay, agree with all you've said but it still bring me to the same conclusion. Probably no G5's in the PowerBooks and if they do manage to get that to work, it will probably be around 1GHz.

I think Apple will wait for the smaller fabrication process at Fishkill before they move the PB line to the G5. Now, I am sure that they are working on a G5 PB so that when the new chips come out, they can just plug them in and go.

[jimd909]

quote:
Originally posted by Lancetx
Please tell us in what way is Apple abusing their customers? When has Apple come out and promised new PowerBooks and given a specific timetable for their release? Put the blame where it belongs...not on Apple, but on yourselves (those who feel abused) and the inaccurate rumor sites.




Ummmmm....can you say 17" Powerbook? They were delayed about a month or so. :(

[chancellor]

Originally posted by soggywulf
[B]Thanks for pulling this data together. Combined with the G5/1.2 @ 19W figure, I think all of this basically shows that a G5 powerbook is theoretically quite possible right now. How soon they actually deploy it is another matter, unfortunately.

The big question is whether the current G5 has power management features built in. I haven't seen clear evidence one way or the other. Without advanced power management in the G5, a G5 Powerbook is a non-starter.

Apple may be waiting for the 0.9 micron G5s because they will be the first to sport advanced power management.

[DHagan4755]

All right. Let's bring this thing around full-circle. We're now looking at the last week of August. What are the chances this week will be the week of reckoning?

[DHagan4755]

Originally posted by arn
We know 2 things with reasonable certainty.

1) 15.2" screen
2) illuminated keyboard

rumors that stated or state differently are probably incorrect.

arn How confident are you? Are these personal sources -- in that they are exclusive to MacRumors?

Lastly, have you gleaned a date from them yet?

[erik19]

Originally posted by DHagan4755
All right. Let's bring this thing around full-circle. We're now looking at the last week of August. What are the chances this week will be the week of reckoning?

Nostrada-erik predicts next tuesday(the 26th).....why? Becasue, it's gotta happen sometime right?

(Special bonus: Nostrada-erik preicts new iMacs in Paris).

Mark my words and priase me afer it comes to pass....

edit: and if Im wrong because I jynxed it....you can all blame me and beat me to a pulp....providing you can find me...

[naz]

I can't believe out of all the sites and all the forums NO REAL LEAKS of what is going on... wow


You know someone on this planet is building the damn things, touching the parts, reading the specs... shesh!


:(

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Titian
Could someone explain me for which reasons Apple could not be able to release in the next month or two a G5 PB?

I haven't followed the whole discussion about PB with all its technical reasons in the last months but since my wife needs a PB I am trying to catch up.
... just don't know if I should wait for the next processor (not Moto) in the PB.

As I believe has been said (though it seems to have gotten lost in other comments comparing G5 and G4 power dissipation), the problem with the G5 and PowerBooks right now isn't the G5, but the system controller. It's the system controller that's too hot for the PowerBooks.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by shecky
... $2756 for that above package is a pretty damn good deal. In fact, that price is about $739 cheaper than current retail on those items, and it is about $1039 cheaper than the normal selling price of that TiBook of $2899...


Uh... check your math...

$2899-$1039=$2756?

I think you meant $1043. ;)

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by jjd
...Anyway, the sales assistant told me categorically that there will be no new PB for at least several months and that the machines would not then be available for a couple of months after that...

I never trust what sales people have to say. I've found that I'm usually far better informed about most of these things than they are.

There was one time I went into an Apple store and I was looking at the iBooks. A salesman came over and asked if I was interested in them. I said yes, but I wanted to wait a week or two because it was late in the product cycle, and I suspected there was going to be an upgrade. He told me that there wasn't going to be any upgrades for at least a month. I waited anyway, and five days later they were upgraded. It just goes to show that sales people throw information about as if they really knew things that they really don't.

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by naz
I can't believe out of all the sites and all the forums NO REAL LEAKS of what is going on... wow

You know someone on this planet is building the damn things, touching the parts, reading the specs... shesh!

:( Unless Apple's not planning on releasing any new PowerBooks until NEXT year, and plans on just speed bumping the darn things (w/minor mods) next month after the back-to-school buying season. :D

C'mon who here is waiting for the all new TiBook15 @ 1.25GHz?

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=377696

[edit - This time I am joking. ;) ]

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by jjd
...Anyway, the sales assistant told me categorically that there will be no new PB for at least several months and that the machines would not then be available for a couple of months after that...

I never trust what sales people have to say. I've found that I'm usually far better informed about most of these things than they are.

There was one time I went into an Apple store and I was looking at the iBooks. A salesman came over and asked if I was interested in them. I said yes, but I wanted to wait a week or two because it was late in the product cycle, and I suspected there was going to be an upgrade. He told me that there wasn't going to be any upgrades for at least a month. I waited anyway, and five days later they were upgraded. It just goes to show that sales people throw information about as if they really knew things that they really don't.

[shecky]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Uh... check your math...

$2899-$1039=$2756?

I think you meant $1043. ;)

no..the old selling price on JUST the TiBook was $2899 (i think?) my math was a little off on my original post tho - corrected. thanx :)

---------------------------------------------------

Normal Retail (before price drop on TiBook):

TiBook Superdrive - 2899
15GB Ipod = 399
HP 7350 = 149
Applecare = 349

TOTAL = $3796

---------------------------------------------------

Current retail (post TiBook price drop):

TiBook Superdrive = 2599
15GB Ipod = 399
Applecare = 349
HP 7350 = 149

TOTAL = $3496

----------------------------------------------------

Price at Education:

TiBook SUperdrive = 2299
15GB ipod = 369
Applecare = 239
HP 7350 = 149

total before rebate = 3056
TOTAL POST REBATE = $2756

----------------------------------------------------

Price Difference between original retail and current educational = $1040

[AHDuke99]

People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September. Yes, thats right, a G5 Powerbook. Remember the rumors back in May that Apple has ordered large amounts of 1.3-1.4ghz 970's. WELL, where do you think they are, I don't believe for a minute that it's taken 9 months to update the case and speed bump the processor. Come on people, you can't be that stupid!!! Apple is redisigning the motherboard to house the G5 chip, thats why the delay, they'd already be here if they were G4's, count on that, every rumor site has been wrong, and I'm not about to believe that Steve is going to dissapoint us like this, really. He and Apple both want to release the "Worlds first 64-bit Laptop". And on September 22nd, AMD will release theirs, 6 days after Paris. The iMac updates won't be using the 7457 processor according to TS, the 1.25 ghz 7455 is too hot to use in the Powerbooks, esspecially the 12". The reason the 12" will lag is because it won't get the G5 at this time, because Apple will have to wait for the 90nm G5's in January, at MWSF, we'll see the 12" move to the G5. This is all very logical, and I don't think Apple will disappoint, and they know if they release just a speed bumped G4 after a 9 month wait, theres gonna be some pissed customers.

[shecky]

Ya know, not knowing anything about the actual ins and outs of processor design and nanometers and whatnot, i hafta admit that AHDuke's post does make sense.

of course, it could make sense just based on my own ignorance.

[erik19]

AHDuke99, I think you may be on to something(and its not jsut because I'm thinking wishfully or trying ot rationalize stuff). .....I think ol' Stever Jobs may indeed pull that off...completing his efforts for the release of a "pant crapper" (thats a good thing), and also validate that silly 'year of the laptop' thingy he said....

Here's hoping....

[ahol19]

YOU ARE KIDDEN ME RIGHT!?!?!
I have heard these rumors for at least 6 months now. If these arent right i will kill someone for making them up.

Adam

[deep_stoat]

Originally posted by AHDuke99
People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September. Yes, thats right, a G5 Powerbook. Remember the rumors back in May that Apple has ordered large amounts of 1.3-1.4ghz 970's. WELL, where do you think they are...

Interesting point, AHDuke99... can anyone elaborate on the May rumor you mentioned? Was it ever confirmed?

--

[bentmywookie]

Originally posted by erik19
AHDuke99, I think you may be on to something(and its not jsut because I'm thinking wishfully or trying ot rationalize stuff). .....I think ol' Stever Jobs may indeed pull that off...completing his efforts for the release of a "pant crapper" (thats a good thing), and also validate that silly 'year of the laptop' thingy he said....

Here's hoping....

I agree. I think AHDuke99 might be onto something. Not that this is the best speculating, but usually ThinkSecret seems to also find out the full specs on updates and this time they have nothing - not even if it will be 7457 or not. And maybe that's what's up with the other 10.2.7 update - blackrider. Maybe apple didn't want to incorporate it all into Smeagol because something in it would have given it away that they are putting the G5s into powerbooks.

I know I'm just fanning the flames, but man it's fun, and the guy does bring up good points.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by AHDuke99
People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September. Yes, thats right, a G5 Powerbook. Remember the rumors back in May that Apple has ordered large amounts of 1.3-1.4ghz 970's. WELL, where do you think they are, I don't believe for a minute that it's taken 9 months to update the case and speed bump the processor. Come on people, you can't be that stupid!!! Apple is redisigning the motherboard to house the G5 chip, thats why the delay, they'd already be here if they were G4's, count on that, every rumor site has been wrong, and I'm not about to believe that Steve is going to dissapoint us like this, really. He and Apple both want to release the "Worlds first 64-bit Laptop". And on September 22nd, AMD will release theirs, 6 days after Paris. The iMac updates won't be using the 7457 processor according to TS, the 1.25 ghz 7455 is too hot to use in the Powerbooks, esspecially the 12". The reason the 12" will lag is because it won't get the G5 at this time, because Apple will have to wait for the 90nm G5's in January, at MWSF, we'll see the 12" move to the G5. This is all very logical, and I don't think Apple will disappoint, and they know if they release just a speed bumped G4 after a 9 month wait, theres gonna be some pissed customers.

I was once very hostile to PowerBook G5 rumors (read my sig, I got tired of posting it in every thread :) ), but I think you might be on to something too.

Joswiak said "a while". From June to September is three months, a significant chunk of any product cycle. Maybe that's what he meant by "a while".

While delays of the Motorola 7457 are an obvious reason for a delay of new PowerBooks, Steve knew this was coming. Remember, the release date was originally Q4, then bumped up to May, then bumped back down to Q4. So Steve originally knew Q4 was the next G4 chip. Steve knew that Q4 was a probable release date for future G4 PowerBooks. He also know that Q4 was too late for a G4.

Your theory holds credence. I think Joswiak may have meant that the PowerBook G5 wouldn't be introduced soon enough to upstage the Power Mac G5.

Then again, it does contradict many rumors, many confirmed rumors. Even if there was a new PBG4 in the works, it may have been killed without any of us knowing about it Introducing a new product in May and then another new one in September is on the short side--4 months. But the original iMac only lasted from August 98 to Jan 99.

If the PBG4 was delayed, Steve would have good reason to just kill it if the G5 was imminent. And since the two rumors confirmed in this thread have nothing to do with anything that would indicate processor type...maybe?

Or maybe that's just wishful thinking. For what it's worth, the Apple rep at the student bookstore says "It'll be within 30 days," while dismissing my suggestion that it'll be this very week (this conversation was on Wednesday) saying, "Don't believe the rumors sites".

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by AHDuke99
People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September...

Well, I'd really like to think that you're right. I'd say that it makes some sense, too. A few extra months to get a different system controller tested out to make sure that it runs cool enough.

I was one of those that advocated the idea of simultaneous PB/PM G5 launch. Obviously that didn't come to pass. But, given the word that the system controller is the limiting factor keeping the G5 out of the PowerBooks, it doesn't seem too unreasonable to me that they'd have taken a few extra months to put the finishing touches on a new SC that can run in the PBs.

Of course, these may be somewhat crippled G5 PowerBooks, just as the first G3 PowerBooks were somewhat crippled, but they'd still be screamers!!

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Of course, these may be somewhat crippled G5 PowerBooks, just as the first G3 PowerBooks were somewhat crippled, but they'd still be screamers!!

But crippled screamers can be fun, especially if they put out a lot! ;)

[MasterMac]

While it would be extremely nice to see G5 PB's in September, I would highly suggest not getting your hopes up for it. I've been disapointed pleanty times already (first the WWDC, then MW in July, then all these other "Tuesday" release dates), that I don't need to be disappointed again if, when the update does eventually come out, it's not a G5, but instead just that 1.25GHz (or 1.33GHz) "minor" revision.

[galopagos]

Guys, IBM's chips as they stand now need three ******** fans to keep the case from turning into T1000's likeness on my hardwood floor. No damn way, not when IBM can't keep up with making the current power-sucking chips, can apple get G5 'books out soon. Hell, all the G5's aren't even out yet!

Slow the hell down... I'll buy Motorola's G4+ chip, a LITTLE speed, and maybe for fun the ability to swing the screen around, tabletPC style (at least that way I'd be sure a powerbook is what i'd want... those tabs look prime for notetaking in my masters classes).

[crees!]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Joswiak said "a while".

He didn't say "a while".. he said empatically, "NOT ANY TIME SOON". There is a sharp difference between the two. But if you want to be even more disappointed keep wishing for it then. I just don't want to hear you all pissing and moaning about a G5 PB anymore. It'll be January 2005 before those puppies are out. A year and a half is a hell of alot of whining (wishing out loud) to do.

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
From June to September is three months, a significant chunk of any product cycle.

Don't make me laugh. 3 months, thank god you're NOT on any marketing team. You'd be dishing out new products before people had the chance to buy the last one. No one would buy because things would be "outdated".. as you all whine about already now.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by crees!
He didn't say "a while".. he said empatically, "NOT ANY TIME SOON". There is a sharp difference between the two. But if you want to be even more disappointed keep wishing for it then.

3 months is not soon.

Originally posted by crees!
Don't make me laugh. 3 months, thank god you're NOT on any marketing team. You'd be dishing out new products before people had the chance to buy the last one. No one would buy because things would be "outdated".. as you all whine about already now.

This is the computer industry! 9 months is a (too) long product cycle, 4 months is a short product cycle. 6 months is about right. 33 to 75% of a product cycle is a significant chunk. So is 50%, a good median value.

Waiting half a product cycle is usually not a logical decision.

[sacrilicious]

Since I've been paying attention to Apple, I've seen a glorious PB update to include a 1ghz processor and a slot-loading SuperDrive, and I've seen a G5 that nobody apparently expected.

A G5 PowerBook sounds pretty neat.

Classes start the 29th of September, and I am not buying a machine until the PowerBook updates. Here's to hoping.

[Bascule]

Just my 2 cents. about a G5 PB and updates.

I'm quite sure we will see updates soon.
I know people are saying you can pick up current powerbooks in somplaces but I in the UK thats not thae case.
Ive not had a chance to go to any apple resellers in London but the online stores I've checked are out(or very low) As reported before JonLewis only have 2 12" and 7 17" dabs.com (a very big online computer store) has 1 15 and 1 17" with quntaites of the 15 and 17's due in 1-3 days (interestingly its been like this for ~3 days now which normaly menas down stream supply problems)

So on the supply front I belive something is afoot.could be CPU/Component shortages but think a update is more likely

Im waiting as I want the APE and bluetooth built in on a 15" (17 is to big for my needs and 12" is slightly to small)

As to a G5 PB yes it would be nice but I dont really expect it to happen soon (not that Id complain)
for the follwing resons.

1. Heat (as people have said) / battery life
2. A laptop is not a scaled down desktop its a lot different
3. Yes (and this might upset people) the G5's are inherently faster than the G4. But 10.2.7 and 10.2.3 are _not_ 64 bit OS's they are 32bit with a 64bit addressing system (please corect me if Im wrong) Im guessing 64 bit apps are out there (or due soon) but the kind of apps get the best performance boost from a beeing 64 bit are the things you would not generally run on a powerbook
(you dont need the larger address space)

So I just dont see it beeing worth it (okay this is a technical rather than a marking issue) unless (and I will add this) the G5 would not cost more than the G4)

G5 Power books in 8 months -- 14 months and Im quite sure they will look nothing like the current versions. that gives apple 1-2 more revisions.

Like I said (way above :+) just my 2 cents.

Im waiting cos I want a non windows laptop. and I currently feel linux on the high end laptops is a bit of a pain (ACPI never worked great on my vaio)

Cheers

(oh an in case your wondering this is beeing typed from a Dual Ultra Sparc II 2 (6bit)

[edited after morning coffee]
[edited again to add important not ]

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Bascule
I'm quite sure we will see updates soon.
I know people are saying you can pick up current powerbooks in somplaces but I in the UK thats not thae case.

That's really a nonissue.

I mean, yes, Apple likes to put things into shortage before updating them (the last iPod, anyone?) but they don't have to sell every single one before an update.

Originally posted by Bascule
3. Yes (and this might upset people) the G5's are inherently faster than the G4. But 10.2.7 and 10.2.3 are _not_ 64 bit OS's they are 32bit with a 64bit addressing system (please corect me if Im wrong) Im guessing 64 bit apps are out there (or due soon) but the kind of apps get the best performance boost from a beeing 64 bit are the things you would generally run on a powerbook
(you dont need the larger address space)

So I just dont see it beeing worth it (okay this is a technical rather than a marking issue) unless (and I will add this) the G5 would not cost more than the G4)


64 bit or not, the G5 is still much, much faster.

[sacrilicious]

Originally posted by Bascule
3. Yes (and this might upset people) the G5's are inherently faster than the G4. But 10.2.7 and 10.2.3 are _not_ 64 bit OS's they are 32bit with a 64bit addressing system (please corect me if Im wrong) Im guessing 64 bit apps are out there (or due soon) but the kind of apps get the best performance boost from a beeing 64 bit are the things you would generally run on a powerbook
(you dont need the larger address space)

Err, crap. That whole Blackrider thing just came back into my head. So much for G5s.

[Bascule]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac

64 bit or not, the G5 is still much, much faster.


I agree, but until its cheep enough it wont go in to a PB (or anyother model)

and a lot of that speed (i belive) requires arch changes so Its a big (expensive) job.
Not going to happen soon [IMO]

[Kermit]

Originally posted by bikertwin
Apple, please deliver a much higher resolution for the new PowerBook. I can deal with a G4, but it has to be a higher resolution, or I'll resort to a desktop.

When I first learned that Apple was expected to switch to a 15.4" display on the expected new Powerbooks (up from 15.2") I was shocked to learn that this increace in screen size would actually mean a decrease in screen resolution. Rumors claimed that it would go from 1280x856 (15.2") to a resolution of 1280x800 (15.4"). This in my mind is just absurd. Dell also delivers a 15.4" laptop these days and offers a choice of two resolutions for it. The high-end has a crisp 1920x1200 WUXGA screen and the low-end offers a measly 1280x800 WXGA screen-resolution.

If the rumors are true (either for this Powerbook update of a future one) that Apple would downgrade its display on their professional line of computers so that it would match that of Dell's budget variant, I might have to think twice about making the switch I have so long yerned to make.

Personally I think that there must be middleground to find here, because while I find the current resolution of 1280x856 unsatisfactory the 1920x1200 resolution offered by Dell may, for some people, be too much. Surely Apple could offer the high-end WUXGA display as a BTO-option or use a resolution that is higher than today yet not quite as high as the one on the high-end Dell portable. Personally I hope that the last of the two options is the way forward for Apple's 15.2" (possibly 15.4") Powerbook.

What do you think?

[Squire]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
But crippled screamers can be fun, especially if they put out a lot! ;)

Nice.

Can anyone confirm that Apple did purchase 1.3 GHz chips in May?

Squire

[dietsoda]

OK, let's think about this...

Everyone seems to agree that Apple must have intended to release new powerbooks way before now. So if this is the case, and if it is Motorola that is the problem, when DID they want to release? And what would be the projected timeframe for the release after that? Are we getting closer to the 2nd update than we are now to the 1st?

G5's... people have mentioned power/heat as a problem with the G5, while others have suggested that a G5 in the region of 1 - 1.25ghz would actually require less power than current G4s. A recent post also claimed that price would be a limiting factor with the current G5, but wasn't it said that the G5s were actually cheaper than the G4s?

Steeeeeeeeve mentioned that Apple have been working with IBM for a couple of years back at the launch of the G5, so we have to presume Apple have had quite a while to develop machines around these chips.

Apple has historically made the best profits on it's desktops, is this correct? If so, is it possible Apple have been delaying the release of a G5 laptop until after everyone has recieved their G5 PowerMacs? So as not to hurt Desktop sales. It seems the announcment of the G5 was made just as soon as IBM could get G5s up to 1.8 - 2ghz. So in the mean time, what were apple doing with the lower power chips?

Maybe Arn could give us a little round-up of any relvant rumors about the G5's cost, heat/power specs, and quantitites ordered by apple.

I've not been expecting a G5, PB, but...

If it is cheaper, and it is at least comparable in regard to heat/power, and Apple did order significant quantities of lower frequency G5 chips, then what would prevent a G5 PB?

Are we at the point where it's only really the now infamous "No G5 in a powerBook any time soon" quote that sways it? Because if so, I prefer the other quote, from the big guy, "Year of the Laptop".

[vrapan]

Yes let's think about it:

when DID they want to release

nobody knows if they intended to release or they are going to release or whatever. nobody seems to know anything.

Are we getting closer to the 2nd update than we are nowto the 1st?


How do you get closer to the 2nd update when you never have had a 1st update? we are getting closer to the 1st update because at some point they will be updated. The 15" will be getting his 4th update.

G5's

Apple would release them as soon as they can not a day later not a day earlier. If they are cheaper or more expensive hotter or cooler the G5 is the way ahead so they will be released but not sooner than they should or could. As for cheap - expensive well the PBs are expensive laptops so I dont think price is that big of an issue for Apple.

Apple has historically made the best profits on it's desktops, is this correct?

No. This is the "year of the laptop" cause Laptop revenue were more than Desktop revenue. the year of the laptop is in terms of sales and money made not amount of revisions of laptops released. And that includes all the PC industry. Laptops are right now better sellers with higher margins than Desktops.

So G5 "not any time soon" (and i think that is 6 - 12 months time frame at least) is just that. Not any time soon. So anyone that needs a computer now buy it and be happy.

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by AHDuke99
He and Apple both want to release the "Worlds first 64-bit Laptop".

Tadpole's been selling SPARC and Alpha notebooks for many, many years.

Want an UltraSPARC book with 4 GiB of RAM, go to http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/exec.php?p=prod-note.

http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/images/home/home_main1.jpg
http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/images/home/home_mess.gif

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by chancellor
The big question is whether the current G5 has power management features built in. I haven't seen clear evidence one way or the other. Without advanced power management in the G5, a G5 Powerbook is a non-starter.

The desktop G5's have the ability to dynamically throttle back to 1.3 GHz if the plastic cover is removed. That indicates to me that enough power management is there for the powerbook--right now.

Originally posted by chancellor
Apple may be waiting for the 0.9 micron G5s because they will be the first to sport advanced power management.

If they are waiting for 0.9, they are waiting too long. IMO.



Originally posted by Snowy_River
It's the system controller that's too hot for the PowerBooks.

Is it? How much power does the current controller dissipate? Wouldn't a 600 MHz bus and 500 MHz memory bandwidth (as opposed to 800/666 and 900/800 etc) alleviate this problem? And how would delaying the G5 powerbook solve this problem? (I hope the answer to that last question is not "waiting for 0.9")

If what you say is really the case, then it adds even more need for Apple to have been designing a laptop system controller over the past year, to allow for release now.



Originally posted by AHDuke99
People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September. Yes, thats right, a G5 Powerbook. Remember the rumors back in May that Apple has ordered large amounts of 1.3-1.4ghz 970's. WELL, where do you think they are, I don't believe for a minute that it's taken 9 months to update the case and speed bump the processor.

I like this. A happy marriage of wishes and logic. :) WTG AHDuke.



Originally posted by crees!
Don't make me laugh. 3 months, thank god you're NOT on any marketing team. You'd be dishing out new products before people had the chance to buy the last one. No one would buy because things would be "outdated".. as you all whine about already now.

Thank god you're not on Apple's strategy team--else we'd all still be using 604's.




Originally posted by galopagos
No damn way, not when IBM can't keep up with making the current power-sucking chips, can apple get G5 'books out soon.

Please check the power requirements of the 1.2 GHz G5.




Originally posted by vrapan
No. This is the "year of the laptop" cause Laptop revenue were more than Desktop revenue.

I disagree. I think this is just our interpretation of his statement in the rumors community, our explanation for a lack of G5 powerbooks. Didn't Steve say this in a public forum, somewhat targeted to Apple customers? Not rhetorical, I actually don't know. If so, then "year of laptop" should have nothing to do with something as pedantic (to a customer) as sales figures--it should be something cool about the laptops like a G5. :)

[legion]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Tadpole's been selling SPARC and Alpha notebooks for many, many years.

Want an UltraSPARC book with 4 GiB of RAM, go to http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/exec.php?p=prod-note.

http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/images/home/home_main1.jpg
http://www.tadpolecomputer.com/images/home/home_mess.gif

Used to have one of these in college. They were damn cool (and compiled code like a dream.) Alas, they were also fairly expensive (about $5G at the time-- which is comparable to today's high-end Mac (loaded properly) if you ignore inflation rates)

I'm sure Apple, however, would spin their laptop as "first" and "fastest." Clever how marketing depts can tailor the parameters for claims to make things seem more buzz worthy... :rolleyes:

[ThomasJefferson]

There will be no G5 powerbook this time around. The G5 still has too many issues to overcome before Apple can make that product.

The problem here is the G4. Never underestimate the incompetence of Motorola. Remember how many months we spent with the G3 at 500 MHz?

Calm down folks. This is going to be a speed bumped alu-book. Nothing more. They will be awesomely stylish and worth the money, as they are - without the G5. And I would have been happy to buy one, but ....

... my car is having a near-death experience. Anybody out there have the Impala? Looks to be in my pricerange....

Here I have this pile of cash and *zap. Reality bites.

[chmorley]

Just to check, I went back and read the MacCentral article (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/06/24/future/) again. It's hard to imagine that when he said, "As you can see, [the G5] is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon," he meant three months.

At best, it's a long shot. The truth is, none of us knows, and the signs point the other way.

I looked for the "1.3 GHz G5" rumors and wasn't able to find anything. I did, however, find these two:
According to the source, the next revision of the Motorola G4+ PowerPC, the 7457, will top out at 1.33 or 1.4GHz (1.0GHz, 1.17GHz, 1.33GHz, 1.40GHz?) in February 2003, and will stick there until July 2003, when another 7457 revision should arrive, promising to push the chip up to a more respectable 1.83GHz (1.50GHz, 1.67GHz, 1.83GHz). (MR, 12/02) (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/12/20021230200055.shtml)and
The newest and fastest members of the Motorola, Inc. (NYSE:MOT) G4 family of PowerPC® processors, the MPC7457 and MPC7447, are now available. The devices run at speeds up to 1.3 GHz, making them the highest performing G4 host processors available for embedded applications.(MR 2/03) (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030210112913.shtml)I wonder if people are just confusing these rumors. These also might be taken as an indication that Motorola might have made some promises that made Apple want to stick with them for another year or so.

And who knows--maybe Moto's failure to produce (again) made Apple change their minds and delay the PB to put the G5 in. Or maybe all of it is BS.

Still, the people calling those in doubt "stupid" are a bit ridiculous...or 15. I remember being pretty sure of all the crap I made up at 15.

Chris

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by ThomasJefferson
There will be no G5 powerbook this time around. The G5 still has too many issues to overcome before Apple can make that product.

What are the issues? Other than design work, which Apple has had plenty of time for, I don't really see any issues left.


Originally posted by chmorley
Still, the people calling those in doubt "stupid" are a bit ridiculous...or 15. I remember being pretty sure of all the crap I made up at 15.

Naw, no one is calling anyone else stupid...yes we are all guessing, but I think there is quite a bit of (technical) evidence indicating G5 powerbooks soon.

[chmorley]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Naw, no one is calling anyone else stupid...
No?Originally posted by AHDuke99
... don't believe for a minute that it's taken 9 months to update the case and speed bump the processor. Come on people, you can't be that stupid!!!And on the flipside I'd say there is also a lot of "evidence" (more?) that the G4 will still be in the next Powerbook.

cjm

[Squire]

Originally posted by soggywulf
What are the issues? Other than design work, which Apple has had plenty of time for, I don't really see any issues left.

We keep hearing "plenty of time" and I'm starting to believe it.

I was just reading an article about the PPC 970 (got it off of IBM's site) and noticed that the date was Oct. 28/02.

"For now, IBM is being conservative. The 970 will debut at clock rates from 1.2 GHz to 1.8 GHz when fabricated in a... (some technical talk)...IBM estimates power consumption at 19W (typical) at 1.1V for a 1.2GHz part, and 42W (typical) at 1.3V for a 1.8GHz part. Sampling will begin in 2Q03, with volume production scheduled in 2H03."

Question: Can the 1.2 GHz chip work in a laptop? Anyone?

Squire

[sockseller]

Originally posted by AHDuke99
People, the reason the Powerbooks are delayed is because we will see a G5 Powerbook in September. Yes, thats right, a G5 Powerbook. Remember the rumors back in May that Apple has ordered large amounts of 1.3-1.4ghz 970's. WELL, where do you think they are, I don't believe for a minute that it's taken 9 months to update the case and speed bump the processor. Come on people, you can't be that stupid!!! Apple is redisigning the motherboard to house the G5 chip, thats why the delay, they'd already be here if they were G4's, count on that, every rumor site has been wrong, and I'm not about to believe that Steve is going to dissapoint us like this, really. He and Apple both want to release the "Worlds first 64-bit Laptop". And on September 22nd, AMD will release theirs, 6 days after Paris. The iMac updates won't be using the 7457 processor according to TS, the 1.25 ghz 7455 is too hot to use in the Powerbooks, esspecially the 12". The reason the 12" will lag is because it won't get the G5 at this time, because Apple will have to wait for the 90nm G5's in January, at MWSF, we'll see the 12" move to the G5. This is all very logical, and I don't think Apple will disappoint, and they know if they release just a speed bumped G4 after a 9 month wait, theres gonna be some pissed customers.

I said that like 7 pages ago...

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by chmorley
No?

OK, fine...but I think that was only in a lighthearted, argumentative sense. :)

Originally posted by chmorley
And on the flipside I'd say there is also a lot of "evidence" (more?) that the G4 will still be in the next Powerbook.

That's why I said "technical evidence". The rumorological evidence leans the other way, I agree.



Originally posted by Squire
Question: Can the 1.2 GHz chip work in a laptop? Anyone?

I don't see why not, as long as Apple has done its design work. Moreover, I don't see any particular reason to wait. Especially since (1) only 19W @ 1.2 GHz, and (2) it appears that the G5 is perfectly capable of being throttled to save power and reduce heat.

[DHagan4755]

All right, I'll add flames to the fire.

From Think Secret:

October 31, 2002 - There has been much speculation that at least the high-end models of both product lines might include a SuperDrive with DVD-RW/CD-RW capabilities. Let us put this issue to rest: There will be no Superdrive version(s) announced.

So Think Secret got the detail wrong about the SuperDrives when it came to the last Ti revision, so who's to say they are right when they say "PowerBook G4?" How is it that Think Secret has all the details WRT the iMac, but not PowerBooks? Boy, Apple is keeping an awefully tight grip! Or are they?

Bill M, a poster on Apple Insider's forums said the following: (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27099&perpage=40&pagenumber=15)
Earlier this week, while visiting an Apple Store, a young woman there mentioned something that left me in shock. We were part of a small crowd being given an iChat AV demo. When the Apple rep paused his presentation so a few of us could get a hands on test of an Aiport and iSight enabled 12"PB, she turned to me and said something to the tune of: Apple has a killer 15" PB replacement for the week of Aug/25. I will sport a 1.2ghz IBM 970 processor at the same price point of the current model. I immediately asked if she meant a faster Mot G4, her reply being that she knew for a fact that the upcoming 15" will have a low power IBM 970.

To cut a long story short, her comments in summary:
- low power G5 (low speed??? low wattage???)
- same price as current 15" w/superdrive
- full specs and form factor as current 17" Al PB
- better battery life
- cooler (temperature)
- introduction and shipping date week of Aug/25
- performance info coming from her acquaintance at IBM
- form and price coming from bits she heard elsewhere

She mentioned that it would have a 50% to 75% overall performance boost over the current model, mostly due to a much faster "internal bus" and, obviously, the new G5. I couldn't believe her comments but tried to hide my skepticism and let her follow through with her story. She mentioned that her husband had pre-ordered a dual 2.0g G5 and that she would get the new "PBG5" by the end of the month, at the same time the "slower" G5 towers will start shipping.

This might have been yet another wishful thinking conversation between 2 Mac fanatics, but I still find her story quite credible. While my limited technical knowledge prevents me from shooting down her claims, she didn't seem to be the type that would make up a story like that just to share it with a total stranger.

I won't hold my hopes up for a PBG5 in just a few weeks, since I will get whatever Apple brings in place of the (aging) TiBook, G4 or else. But something similar to what this woman described would certainly fit in line with Jobs comments about this being the year of the portables.

The iChat demo was over and the crowd dispersed. We exchanged e-mail addresses as she promised to keep me posted if she learned anything new. Our conversation ended soon thereafter. Over the last couple of years, I have had numerous discussions with friends and strangers alike regarding upcoming Apple products; this is the first time I feel comfortable enough to post a roundup.


Just a couple of clarifications about my original post above. First of all, I wasn't like taking notes or anything of that sort. I am just relying on my old and fuzzy recollection of the event. So, albeit the conversation lasted several minutes, only the most juicy details stuck in my mind. Alas, it is not a matter of why I award this woman so much credibility in her comments, but rather that I find it hard to believe she would make up such a story and share it out of the blue if she didn't believe it. Could she have been misguided? Probably. Did I fall for a too good to be true story? Probably, only time and whatever Apple delivers will tell. Either way, I am on the market for a new PowerBook (just sold my Ti400), so I am sure I will get anything Apple delivers as a 15" PB replacement. Hopefully that means soon. Ok, back to the story...

When the woman mentioned that she expects to get the new PBG5 at the same time the "slower' G5 towers start shipping, she was talking about the 1.6 and 1.8 G5s, as compared to the fastest dual 2.0 G5s that should (according to her husband) ship in late september. She never meant that the new PB would be faster than any of the new towers. My fault, if I misrepresented that.

"Same form factor as the current 17"PB"... I believe those were her words, but alas she was talking about the material and overall appearance at the time. I don't think she meant size.

Even if her comments were half true, or utterly false, it was indeed an interesting conversation. As I said, I have heard even more sensational stories before, that have proven to be all lies or fabrications, but I thought this was worth sharing here this time around.

I just sent her an e-mail, in case she remembers our conversation and wishes to add anything new. If and when she replies, I will post any news here.

Sounded suspicious to me at the time, but after the recent delay, the seeming imminence of PowerBook updates, and the somewhat alignment with the date mentioned above, it has changed my view slightly. Discuss.

[bikertwin]

Originally posted by Kermit


Personally I think that there must be middleground to find here, because while I find the current resolution of 1280x856 unsatisfactory the 1920x1200 resolution offered by Dell may, for some people, be too much. Surely Apple could offer the high-end WUXGA display as a BTO-option or use a resolution that is higher than today yet not quite as high as the one on the high-end Dell portable. Personally I hope that the last of the two options is the way forward for Apple's 15.2" (possibly 15.4") Powerbook.

What do you think?

I think you're right.

Dell also has an intermediate resolution of 1680 x 1050 pixels. Isn't that the same as the Apple 20-inch desktop monitor?

Wow, imagine getting the equivalent of a 20-inch monitor (in a 15" form factor) and a G5 processor in an Aluminum PowerBook! I'd pay US$2600 for that!

With specs this good, no wonder they're keeping this under wraps until the desktop G5's ship.

Sign me up...

Or maybe it's all just a fantasy. In any case, I'd be perfectly happy with a 1.25 GHz G4 with a higher-resolution screen. Hopefully less than $2600, though.

[chancellor]

Originally posted by soggywulf
[B]The desktop G5's have the ability to dynamically throttle back to 1.3 GHz if the plastic cover is removed. That indicates to me that enough power management is there for the powerbook--right now.

Which processor is this on? The 2.0 GHz?

[chancellor]

I looked for the "1.3 GHz G5" rumors and wasn't able to find anything. I did, however, find these two:

I think this may be the articled being referenced:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030513120543.shtml

[pimentoLoaf]

If Apple isn't going to be using the 7457's for notebook/laptop CPU's, what then? Perhaps as some kind of support chip in a G5 portable?

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
If Apple isn't going to be using the 7457's for notebook/laptop CPU's, what then? Perhaps as some kind of support chip in a G5 portable?

Well, how about a new G4 iBook? (Basically the 12" PowerBook rebranded, of course...)

[crayzaysean]

the 12" pbook IS the g4 ibook, so you're probably right. it was the ibook team that designed it. an apple support guy posted it on the apple support message board. i can't remember what the link is, but it was posted on this forum. I guess the 12" REALLY isn't supposed to get the g5 anytime soon.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by dietsoda
A recent post also claimed that price would be a limiting factor with the current G5, but wasn't it said that the G5s were actually cheaper than the G4s?

Probably cheaper to produce, because of Fishkill.

Originally posted by dietsoda
Are we at the point where it's only really the now infamous "No G5 in a powerBook any time soon" quote that sways it? Because if so, I prefer the other quote, from the big guy, "Year of the Laptop".

I think the "any time soon" period of time has passed.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by soggywulf
If so, then "year of laptop" should have nothing to do with something as pedantic (to a customer) as sales figures--it should be something cool about the laptops like a G5. :)

Steve Jobs said this at MWSF this year. When he said it, however, he actually explained what he meant. And what he meant, was that laptops started to get a bigger and bigger share of the market. So yes, it did have to do with sales figures. Jobs said it did.

[ncbill]

There is NO heat related reason to keep the G5 out of the 15" AlBook.

An underclocked G5 (1.2-1.3GHz) would dissipate roughly the same amount of heat as the new 7457 G4s.

But for the same reason, we won't be seeing even the new G4 in an iBook anytime soon, unless the iBook loses its polycarb case (5W max for the G3 vs 20W+ for the G4)

I'm still skeptical of a G5 Powerbook...

Anyway, Apple needs a 15" AlBook (even based on the old G4) ASAP - a critical gap in their product line now exists.

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by DHagan4755
Sounded suspicious to me at the time, but after the recent delay, the seeming imminence of PowerBook updates, and the somewhat alignment with the date mentioned above, it has changed my view slightly. Discuss.

Sounds like that other AI story concerning the two Apple employees at the bar, leering at waitresses and spilling G5 beans. But hey, maybe this woman has the inside track. Would be cool if so. :)



Originally posted by chancellor
Which processor is this on? The 2.0 GHz?

All of them, I believe. There is an Apple help document on this issue. I will attempt to find it now...

Ahh, here it is. Doesn't mention the number 1.3 per se, just a "reduced speed". I saw the 1.3 number elsewhere.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86412




Originally posted by Snowy_River
Well, how about a new G4 iBook? (Basically the 12" PowerBook rebranded, of course...)

Absolutely. Actually, they could just move the current powerbooks down to the ibook line just as they are. Save some re-design resources. Which can be used for the PBG5. :)




Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Steve Jobs said this at MWSF this year. When he said it, however, he actually explained what he meant. And what he meant, was that laptops started to get a bigger and bigger share of the market. So yes, it did have to do with sales figures. Jobs said it did.

Ahh, I see. Damn. :( Oh well...we can still hope.

[AllenPSU]

Originally posted by Squire
IBM estimates power consumption at 19W (typical) at 1.1V for a 1.2GHz part, ...

Question: Can the 1.2 GHz chip work in a laptop? Anyone?

19 Watts is a bit high for a laptop but you can make it work. Lets assume that heat won't be a problem, and you go with a processor that uses around 19 watts (typically). That means you can actually lower the power a little by using some power management tools at the OS level to maximize battery life. Another option would be to put a bigger battery (in Amp-hours not necessarily physical size).

So it is possible, but I wouldn't expect it, but Apple can surprise us if they want to!

[robinci]

The big German Apple dealer Cyberport (www.cyberport.de) posted the restock dates of the old 15 inch TiBooks (867MHz Combo, 1GHz Superdrive): August 28.

The last time the iBook was updated (800MHz --> 900MHz) Cyberport's web site indicated an April 22 restock date for the old 800MHz model. That was when the new ones were released...

Actually, that would perfectly match DHagan's story with the release in the week of August 25 - whether G4 or G5.

[cr2sh]

When the new powerbooks are released they'll have optical audio i/o.. and I'm going to be pissed.

[crees!]

Posted in wrong forum.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Absolutely. Actually, they could just move the current powerbooks down to the ibook line just as they are. Save some re-design resources. Which can be used for the PBG5. :)

Maybe THAT'S been what the rumors have been about, while the PBG5 is supersecret :)

Originally posted by soggywulf
Ahh, I see. Damn. :( Oh well...we can still hope.

Well, Steve also said Apple fully intends to exploit this drift. They haven't done well yet, but a PowerBook G5? I'm waiting for it :)

[Rocketman]

Reply summmary

IBM Fishkill (what a name) is the savior of Apple Computer.
And related to another reply . . .
As soon as Apple can deemphasize Motorola on an actual product basis the better.

I predict 1.5 years to Motorola abandonment.

You can be SURE a PB G5 is burning a hole in Steviepoo's pocket. He is pissing titanium or aluminum or watever since he knows full well this is not only the "year of the laptop" but the semi-decade of the laptop.

If he thought he could do it underclocked he would, because criticize Steve Jobs all you want, but if it takes severely crippling a product to get it out the door, he is never below that.

And since Ti/AL/PB is his "baby" you can be sure he will over featuritis it as much as possible. Just look at his current top of the line. The Al PB G4 17". It has 1000 EN (!!) and 800 FW (!!), and of course turbo WiFi (!!) and Superdrive (!!).

That thing is on featuritis steroids considering the crippleware Motorola chip crammed down Steve's throat under contract (very late and in crippled quantities).

I suspect you will not see a Steve compatible Powerbook till 90nm by IBM Fishkill G5 is shipping (anything sooner should be treated as a Rev A (beta).

Rumours from Apple employees at the bar are absolutely the most reliable on this website.

Rocketman

[bikertwin]

Originally posted by Rocketman
IBM Fishkill (what a name) is the savior of Apple Computer.Rocketman

From Town of Fishkill web site (http://www.fishkill-ny.org/history.shtml) :

TOWN HISTORY >> Historic Sites




In 1683, nineteen years after the Dutch surrendered New Amsterdam to the English, two New York City merchants, Frances Rombout and Gulian Verplanck, purchased 85,000 acres in Dutchess County from the Wappinger Indians for a quantity of rum, powder, cloth, hatchets, shirts, knives, bottles, white wampum, earthen jugs and 80 pounds of tobacco. Rombout and Verplanck never lived on their land, intending to use it only for fur trading. The first white settlers were Rombout's daughter, Catharyna and her husband, Roger Brett, who built a mill at the mouth of the Fishkill Creek as it flows into the Hudson. Their house, built about 1709, still stands in Beacon, and is the oldest continuous residence in Dutchess County.

The name Fishkill is derived from two Dutch words: Vis (fish) and Kill (creek or stream).

[deep_stoat]

So, if I'm reading this right, it looks like one of two things is going to happen pretty darn soon:

1) After being held back by lack of Motorola chips, Apple finally release a speed-bumped G4, 15" AlBook - running at 1.25 or possibly 1.33 - to a massively underwhelming reception. They do this before the Paris Show in September because a) it's not that significant an upgrade and b) there's nothing more embarrassing than an uncomfortable silence, followed by a slow hand-clap, during a keynote speech-cum-product launch.

2) Apple release a 1.4GHz G5 15" AlBook (possibly underclocked further?), either next week (ie Tuesday August 26th) or at Paris in September to slack-jawed wonder, adulation and choruses of hallelujah. Angels descend from heaven, Mankind is united in celebration and there is an end to all war.

So, all technical issues and conflicting half-rumors aside, one (admittedly very simplified) way of looking at it is that Apple are either going to disappoint or delight us, possibly as early as next week.

I don't know about you but I'd say their track record so far points towards (2) (possibly without the angels / world peace thing, though)...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by deep_stoat
So, if I'm reading this right, it looks like one of two things is going to happen pretty darn soon:

1) After being held back by lack of Motorola chips, Apple finally release a speed-bumped G4, 15" AlBook - running at 1.25 or possibly 1.33 - to a massively underwhelming reception. They do this before the Paris Show in September because a) it's not that significant an upgrade and b) there's nothing more embarrassing than an uncomfortable silence, followed by a slow hand-clap, during a keynote speech-cum-product launch.

2) Apple release a 1.4GHz G5 15" AlBook (possibly underclocked further?), either next week (ie Tuesday August 26th) or at Paris in September to slack-jawed wonder, adulation and choruses of hallelujah. Angels descend from heaven, Mankind is united in celebration and there is an end to all war.

So, all technical issues and conflicting half-rumors aside, one (admittedly very simplified) way of looking at it is that Apple are either going to disappoint or delight us, possibly as early as next week.

I don't know about you but I'd say their track record so far points towards (2) (possibly without the angels / world peace thing, though)...


Gee... I really hope that Apple manages to do it with the angels and world peace thing... ;)

[Phil Of Mac]

If Apple releases a G5, I'm going to go insane with happiness.

[walexx]

If Apple dont release a G5 15" Im going to go insane with disappointment.

Lets face it, all things considered, after waiting almost 10months to get a 15" albook which is nothing more than brought up to spec with the 12 and 17 inchers but with a faster chip, it will be a huge let down for such an update.

If this truley is the year of the laptop, then Steve had better pull a rabbit out of a hat, because this fast turning into the year the 15" powerbook took 10months be to updated to a unit released 8months ago.

[MasterMac]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Gee... I really hope that Apple manages to do it with the angels and world peace thing... ;)
So do I :rolleyes:

Althought I wouldn't mind adding in a little part about having the angels take Bill Gates down to hell and having the MS reign end :p

[Phil Of Mac]

All I ask is for the angels to put out, especially if they're crippled screamers.

[etoiles]

I wouldn't hold my breath for the G5 15Albook. Apple is not going to have 12"/17" G4's and a 15" G5, and I am not sure they could switch over the whole linup now.

With a new enclosure, keyboard, graphics card... they will probably have made quite a few changes to the motherboard. This is pretty much a new machine, even if it still uses a G4 processor.

We can still be dreaming, but I am afraid it is gonna end in tears...

[Phil Of Mac]

Aha! Another rumor from the campus bookstore:

They don't have any 17" PowerBook brochures left. They do have plenty of 12" PowerBook brochures. This must mean something.

There never were any 15" brochures.

[Bruja]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
All I ask is for the angels to put out, especially if they're crippled screamers. You can have the crippled, I just want them to scream my name aloud in reverse :ajurB ;)

[vrapan]

Uh..... guys I hope you all realise that you are working up your selfs for a bigger disappointment. Till now you were getting disappointed about they not actually realeasing the updates now you will get disappointed if they do not contain a G5 and of course then everyone will be mad at Apple and everyone will be buying Dells cause Apple after all HAS after 10 months of wait to release a G5 maybe 10 months after today they should be releasing the G6 cause someone else will be waiting 3 or 4 months for updates.....

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by etoiles
I wouldn't hold my breath for the G5 15Albook. Apple is not going to have 12"/17" G4's and a 15" G5, and I am not sure they could switch over the whole linup now.

With a new enclosure, keyboard, graphics card... they will probably have made quite a few changes to the motherboard. This is pretty much a new machine, even if it still uses a G4 processor.

We can still be dreaming, but I am afraid it is gonna end in tears...

I doubt they'd update just the 15". But, if rumors are to be believed, then the 15" and the 17" will be updated, leaving the 12" as it is, for now. I rather doubt that there'd be so much work to have both of those computers available, if they were in a position to have one available...

[walexx]

Yep i for one will be disappointed but thats probably only because all this speculation has got me all fired up thinking a G5 is a real possibility.

On the other hand as long as its got a backlit keyboard, built in bluetooth and airport extreme which is pretty much a given, I will be one of the first to order the updated unit.

I have been waiting for this update for soooo long, so disappointed or not, Ill still be right at the front of the line to order whatever it is.

Oh and as for getting a Dell ??. "not in this or any other lifetime !!!!!". Id rather buy a G3 albook if that was the case.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by vrapan
Uh..... guys I hope you all realise that you are working up your selfs for a bigger disappointment. Till now you were getting disappointed about they not actually realeasing the updates now you will get disappointed if they do not contain a G5 and of course then everyone will be mad at Apple and everyone will be buying Dells cause Apple after all HAS after 10 months of wait to release a G5 maybe 10 months after today they should be releasing the G6 cause someone else will be waiting 3 or 4 months for updates.....

I won't be terribly disappointed. I already got my new PB. I'm looking forward to seeing the new G5 PBs whenever they come out. That, and I really like seeing Apple blow the doors off the industry.

Whatever people say, I'd say that Apple's products are reasonably competitive right now. But, if they launched a G5 PB... Wow. Brings back memories of the G3, in its day...

[Phil Of Mac]

If a G5 PowerBook is released after all, does this mean we can't lynch the MacWhispers guy?

[cb911]

i've benn having a bit of a look on other forums and came accross this guy on appleinsider.com saying that he was talking to some woman in an Apple store.

check out what Bill M has to say: http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27099&perpage=40&pagenumber=15

someone mentioned about the brochures... i was at an Apple reseller the other day and they had a new batch of 12" & 17" brochures in, but none for the 15". i didn't get a chance to ask about it.

another thing that someone has mentioned in another forum somewhere is about the details of the iMac. ThinkSecret has details about the iMac, video card and even type and amount of ports... but the PowerBook has really had a lid on it. another reason to think that it's not an ordinary update. ;)

[hose this!]

There's been a lot of talk about the tech specs determining the nature of PB updates. In particular, people seem to be focused on the heat or system architecture issues.

But how about looking at it from company psyche (read: Steve-O's Ego) point of view?

Apple's been on a roll the last couple of years with some really groundbreaking products. Yeah, they've still been losing marketshare in the PC arena, but that's almost beside the point - which is: when Apple want to release something groundbreaking, they take their goddamn time, but it's generally pretty amazing. Think - OSX, Ti PBs, AlPBs, the iPod, the G5.

I don't think waiting this long, regardless of Moto's manufacturing problems, to release a 15" PB with a speed bump and a new skin really fits the personality profile of Apple. I think their attitude is more like "Jeez, we could make an incremental improvement in one of our products at the time that most people expect, OR we could take a few months longer, piss off a lot of people, but come out with something that will absolutely make people crap their pants (to borrow a phrase). Hmmm. Let's piss people off. They'll love us again after they crap their pants."

They will not say, "Hey everybody! Look at our shiny new 15" laptop! It's got all the same components as our last model from 10 months ago, but look, it's fasterer with a 1.3 GHz processor - ooh, and this shiny new skin! Look! Look at the skin... see how nice that is...? Hey and yours for the great price of $2599! See, it's .3GHz faster and it's got a shiny new skin. Did I mention the new skin?"

And of course, there's the Steve-O Ego consideration - "No way in hell are you (Apple/IBM Engineers and Designers) going to make me look bad during My Year of the Laptop. And no way is AMD going to beat us to the 64bit laptop punch. You guys figure out how to get a G5 in that PB or you can all look for new jobs. Even you IBM people. Yeah, I know I'm not your boss, but I'll get you somehow. Worry you not..."

G5s in the 15" and 17". New G4 in the 12". September.

No way I'm switching to a G4 PB of any sort. Not for the kind of money they're asking for. 130nm G5? I can live with that... :D

[deep_stoat]

That was my point with the disappoint / delight thing - given their history of innovation and pulling "pant-crappers" (a delightful term in itself), I think it's entirely feasible that they've got something up their sleeves.

Not that this changes anything, of course... we're all still *waiting*...

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Maybe THAT'S been what the rumors have been about, while the PBG5 is supersecret :)

Aha! The missing link! Nice. :) In fact, having the ThinkSecret rumors apply to ibooks makes a lot of sense. The 7457 would seem to fit the ibook bill very well. Relatively low-end processing power by today's standards, but also allows for relatively low power consumption--an ibook hallmark.




Originally posted by AllenPSU
19 Watts is a bit high for a laptop...

I disagree. I believe the current powerbooks use the 7455 (7410 = ~400 MHz, 7450 = ~667 MHz). As magitekkn pointed out earlier in this thread, the current 7455 processor is dissipating 21W typical! So a 1.2 G5 is actually even better than that. Very doable, and not too high.

EDIT: I just looked up the 7455 numbers myself, and it looks like the numbers are actually 15W typical and 22W max for the 1 GHz piece. So depending on whether the 19W spec for the 1.2 G5 is typical or max, you may be right that the G5 is on the high side. Still, with the 1.3 GHz 7457 at 18.7W typical, the G5 remains very much in the doable range.




Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
All I ask is for the angels to put out, especially if they're crippled screamers.

LOL. Nice.

[ThomasJefferson]

Shouldn't we have some kind of pool going. Closest person to the actual specs gets a free trip to Tahiti? How 'bout it arn, Tahiti

How 'bout a mug?

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by rjwill246
If your company has bought Wintel machines because Apple didn't announce what it was doing with its PBs, they are complete idiots... the current range would more than equal any Wintel laptop and been perfectly okay.

Have you looked at a wintel laptop lately? Go and check them out, actually research the issue rather than relying on some of the FUD that gets spread around here. I like apple as much as the next guy, but not enough to use it in ways that affect my productivity (and, indirectly, my financial ability to get another one).

I will buy a powerbook as soon as they're offering competitive technology for as little as double the price of, say, Dell.

Still waiting. Typing this, incidentally, on a $1300 Dell 600M (coupons, rebates) with 512mb ram, 64mb graphics card, 1.4ghz PM processor (easily clock-for-clock with the G4, a little more IIRC, this it not the old "P4M" chip), 1400x1050 display, bluetooth, wireless, etc, etc. Oh, and the standard battery lasts me a real-world 3.5 hours (and I can add a second battery to replace the CD if I want to).

Alright, the OS is a little quirky. And the CD is tray loading rather than slot loading (which, to be honest, I really don't think about more than once a week).

Now, who's more than competitive? For the price of some of the new Apple offerings, I could be looking at the Dell Mobile Workstation line.

As I said, I like apple and will buy a powerbook. Right now, though, their systems are what I would expect the iBook line to be, at pro prices. I don't mind paying a lot for a quality product, but I'm not going to get stupid about it.

-Richard

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by rjstanford
I will buy a powerbook as soon as they're offering competitive technology for as little as double the price of, say, Dell.

Still waiting. Typing this, incidentally, on a $1300 Dell 600M (coupons, rebates) with 512mb ram, 64mb graphics card, 1.4ghz PM processor (easily clock-for-clock with the G4, a little more IIRC, this it not the old "P4M" chip), 1400x1050 display, bluetooth, wireless, etc, etc. Oh, and the standard battery lasts me a real-world 3.5 hours (and I can add a second battery to replace the CD if I want to).


Yes, the Dell seems nice, but I cannot run FCP 4 on it, that's why I'm getting a 15" PB when the line gets refreshed, whenever that is.

I already have a 12" iBook, but I won't replace it with a 12" G4 b/c I just think the screen is too small for effective FCP work.

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by QuiteSure
Yes, the Dell seems nice, but I cannot run FCP 4 on it, that's why I'm getting a 15" PB when the line gets refreshed, whenever that is.I agree with your point -- I'm doing cross-platform development these days myself. Its sad when the best reason for sticking with a platform is proprietary lock-in though. C'mon, Apple, give us something we can use...

-Richard

[NoPrideELF]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
If a G5 PowerBook is released after all, does this mean we can't lynch the MacWhispers guy?

Phil, It's never a bad time for a good lynching.

[aras]

Just wanting to add my 2 cents. My sister's art school at Laguna in California was mistakenly sent a wrong order of powerbooks and Apple has now promised to sell them very soon (2 weeks or less?) their newest powerbooks which are about to be released at a special discounted price. I asked my sister to get me one too but its only one per new student and they are required to get them. Well at least I know i can order one within 2 weeks!


Go Apple!