How would YOU spend $3000 at the Apple store?

[jrv3034]

Hello all. In about 2 months I'm going to get my first Mac ever. I've used both Windows and Macs at school, and I've fallen in love with OSX at CompUSA over the last 2 years.

This summer I shot a feature length movie on MiniDV, and now I need to start editing the thing. Therefore I want a PowerMac. Of course it'd be great to get a Dual G5 with a 23" Cinema display, but I'm on a budget here. I need to know what your suggestions would be for a mid-range Final Cut Pro system that won't choke on rendering transitions and burning DVDs. Final Cut Pro costs $1000, so that leaves me with about $3000 to play with. I should add that I don't want an all-in-one system (iMac or eMac).

My gut reaction says "1.6 G5 with a $400 19 inch CRT and load up on RAM and storage", but I'd like your opinions. How would YOU spend $3000 at the Apple store? Should I get an LCD that costs more with less resolution? Should I go for an older G4 Powermac, and spend the $$ on a 20" Cinema instead? Should I sell my kidney and get the dual 2GHz "just for the hell of it"?

Bear in mind, I'll be switching from a 1Ghz Duron PC with 256 megs of RAM and 40GB storage. I think just about any new computer would impress the heck out of me...

Thoughts? Comments?:)

[hugemullens]

GO WITH AN LCD. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!. :) IF you can afford go LCD all the way. But i think your right if you need lots of relestate to go CRT. Lots of screen cheap, CRT, but definelty put a good lcd on your christmas list.

[Backtothemac]

I would say go with a 1.6, and a 17" Studio. Maybe a 20" Cinema. That would be what I would do. Add other things later. Or, if you are just a home user, go with an iMac, camera, DV camera, external FW drive, and get a few games as well. ;)

[idea_hamster]

My first reaction to $3000 was 20 iSights and make a Matrix-like movie of myself on my wheel...then I thought maybe 100 shares of Apple stock and 1000 mp3's at the iTMS. :p

But if I were in your shoes, I would get the 1.8GHz system with one 250GB drive. While striping RAID would help your video work, the hardware set-up on the 1.8 FAR out-classes the 1.6 (RAM, RAM ceiling, PCI-X, FSB). Much more expandable and you can always add the second 250GB drive later on ("just slide it in") (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72502/wo/vr55Jldm8xjn235TL28144UFYHp/3.0.7.1.0.5.3.21.1.7.3.3.0).

When you can afford to break the 4GB RAM ceiling, you don't want your G5 to be unable to support it.

[Kwyjibo]

maybe you should consider final cut express, that would thoeretically give u 700 extra dollars to mess with. I don't edit video so I don't know if express can do everything you need but i think you should at the very least look

[idea_hamster]

Originally posted by Kwyjibo
consider final cut express
Not a bad idea -- especially if they still have an upgrade option from FCExpress to FCPro. Not sure what option they don't have on Express, but possibly something to look into.

[Vlade]

You probably don't want one of those apple displays, they are pretty expensive. Go with a 21" CRT, my friend had one on his Dell, it the thing was GIANT. I have a 19" CRT, and it looked tiny compared to the 21".

LCDs have to low resolutions, if your video editing, you don't want to be stuck at 1280x1024, you want 1920x1440 or so, so you have have EVERYTHING on your screen nicely.

If I was you, I would get a 1.6GHZ G5, and upgrade to the 250 GB drive. 250 GBs should be able to hold about 15 hours+ of DV video.

Then, go to your local Staples or Best Buy, and buy 2 512 meg sticks or RAM, they should be about 40-50 dollars each after rebates.

[hugemullens]

Final Cut Express is a great idea. You can get it cheap with a new mac and i think its only 700 to upgrade to Pro if you decied you need it. So thats still only 1 grand. Definetly worth looking into, i use FCE all the time and love it.

[idea_hamster]

Originally posted by Vlade
I would get a 1.6GHZ G5, and upgrade to the 250 GB drive
Really? I'm thinking that with raw DV running in at 16Gb per hour, storage space isn't going to be the issue for a first project. More important is going to be how this machine can handle future projects -- and storage is far easier to upgrade than your front-side bus!

I mean, if you've only got 4 RAM slots, it doesn't really matter that your machine could address more. I think the 1.8 GHz machine is a better deal for someone looking toward a future of video work. Much cheaper to add the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th GB of RAM to the 1.8GHz machine...;)

[i_wolf]

I take it also that you are talking about the apple education store......
Were i you i would go with the dual 2 GHz. I dont have a mac to compare with but hear me out. I use premiere on dual 2.8 Xeon's with hyperthreading. The difference from single processor to dual processor is massive.
i put all my money into the hardware especially two G5 2Ghz.... speed speed speed is all needed for digital video editing and special effects......
I would get maybe a second hand CRT monitor 19 or 21". Sony trinitron monitors are really good and high quality. Also that idea about final cut express is shear genius. Im sure you could make do with final cut express as the stuff you can do with it is quite impressive.. also doesn't the apple education store discount extend to software as well.......

[Vlade]

Originally posted by idea_hamster
Really? I'm thinking that with raw DV running in at 16Gb per hour, storage space isn't going to be the issue for a first project. More important is going to be how this machine can handle future projects -- and storage is far easier to upgrade than your front-side bus!

I mean, if you've only got 4 RAM slots, it doesn't really matter that your machine could address more. I think the 1.8 GHz machine is a better deal for someone looking toward a future of video work. Much cheaper to add the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th GB of RAM to the 1.8GHz machine...;)

Really??? My camera is around 13 GB (not Gb) per hour I think, I remember a half hour clip took 6 and a half gigs.

Anyways, if the stock drive is good enough, stick with it, because storage is doubling every 6 months, and you can probably get a serial ATA HD cheaper somewhere else than through apple.


I use a G4 733MHZ mac with final cut express, it it runs GREAT. I have 896 megs of RAM, and thats more than enough. You won't need 8 GBs or ram for a long time, 1 or 2 should be fine for what your doing.


If you have the spare cash, get the 1.8 over the 1.6, I don't know who actually uses PCIX, but It seams like a good thing to have for video. Plus you will have DDR400 instead of DDD333.

The DP machines are REALLY nice, but so is an extra 21" monitor at about 1/3rd of the cost. If the money is burning a hole in your pocket and you can wait 2 more weeks, get it instead.

[idea_hamster]

Originally posted by Vlade
Really??? My camera is around 13 GB (not Gb) per hour I think, I remember a half hour clip took 6 and a half gigs.
BUSTED! Im ade a ty[o! ;)

Yeah, raw DV runs about 13-18 GB per hour depending on your camera (13 GB/hr is a pretty common rate, but I think that if you shoot anamorphic 16:9, it's more). It would be nice though -- 16Gb per hour? You could get 20+ minutes of raw footage on a 1GB memory stick! An awsome thought....

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by idea_hamster
Not a bad idea -- especially if they still have an upgrade option from FCExpress to FCPro. Not sure what option they don't have on Express, but possibly something to look into.

I actually need FCP4 because I shot the movie using the Panasonic DVX100, which records at 24 frames per second (awesome camera), and only Final Cut Pro 4 can handle that frame rate. Plus I'd love Soundtrack, which comes bundled with it.

Anyways, I'm still not sure about LCD vs CRT. I love the Apple 20" Cinema Display (the image quality is superb; better than any other LCD I've seen), but I'd just feel really wrong about paying $1300 for it when I can get a 22" Lacie Electron BlueIV monitor (with much higher resolution) for $800.

http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10037

I guess the real question is "Will I benefit more from the sexy LCD or from a system with more RAM and better processor?" Then again, will the 2 grey lines visible on the screen of this CRT drive me up the wall? Maybe, but I'd be more pissed if I got a dead pixel on my LCD...

Unless somebody can convince me that LCD's are better for editing video, I think I can't justify paying that much for something just because it looks cool.

Whadda ya think?

[jhershauer]

Well, with Educational Prices, how about a 1.8 G5 with 1 GB Ram and ATI 9600 Pro video card, then get Final Cut Express for $99 with the current promotion. That's $2569. Then you can get a nice Viewsonic or other non-apple 17" monitor for $450 (1280x1024 resolution).

You could also drop down to a Combo Drive instead of Superdrive, knocking off $200, and put the extra into the monitor or HD space, unless you really want to burn DVDs right away (maybe you could add on the DVD burner later, after you've done your editing).

[Edit] Doh! You just posted that you need FC Pro while I was typing.
[Edit again] Wait a minute...never mind. You said you have $3000 AFTER dropping the $1K on FCP. Also, I see that selling a kidney is an option, in which case you should definitely go with the dual processor model.

[G5orbust]

• 1.8GHz PowerPC G5
• 1GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x512
• 250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
• NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
• 56k V.92 internal modem
• SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
• Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
• Mac OS X - U.S. English
• APP for Power Mac (w/ or w/o display) - Enrollment Kit

Price: $3,023.00
(Apple.com)

Education Price: $2,735.00
(Apple.com)

Scrounge up some more funds for a monitor. That education discount, if you are eligible, will suit you very well. Get a 300$CRT (I got my very nice envision crt for 225$; you can probably find a great 19 inch at 1600x1200 resolution and super great refresh rates for 300$) if you want, or get an LCD. You dont have to have an Apple LCD. You can get an excellent LCD for under 800$, but the CRT monitors will give you the higher resolutions. The lower end Apple LCD's (17 inch and 20 inch) are not great, having brightness that just barely makes minimum marks and lacking viewing angle and pixel response time. Also, ADC is the same exact quality as a DVI connection, so dont think that getting a digital LCD for cheaper means you are skipping out on quality. Just something to think about before you jump into an expensive Apple LCD, which by no means (dont get me wrong) are bad, just not great for someone on a budget.

Good luck.

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by G5orbust
• 1.8GHz PowerPC G5
• 1GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x512
• 250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
• NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
• 56k V.92 internal modem
• SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
• Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
• Mac OS X - U.S. English
• APP for Power Mac (w/ or w/o display) - Enrollment Kit

Price: $3,023.00
(Apple.com)

Education Price: $2,735.00
(Apple.com)


Would you really suggest getting RAM direct from Apple? It seems pretty expensive, compared to something like Crucial.com or other stores... Is the Apple RAM better somehow? Also, would it be better to get the 160GB drive and add another (cheaper) drive later, instead of getting the 250GB?

Thanks all for the quick responses! I really can't wait to get my first Mac, regardless of what the specs are!:D

[daveg5]

i would ask for a cash refund

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by daveg5
i would ask for a cash refund

Um, what?:confused:

[mymemory]

I'm editing video with a Powerbook G3 500 and FCP 2, anything above that works.

Get the lower end G5 with alota ram! at list 512MB or so. Be sure to use just one slot, so you do not end up with all the slots full of 64MB cards.

Get another LCD display than Apple, Apple LCD are way too expensive and you can get more features from another manofatures.

Just for your information, I'm working right now in a Powerbook G3 500 with 256MB of ram, I have done a lot of video and tv comertials in this unit and I have a project comming up of 2 videos 10 minutes each, full After Effects and FCP. I have an 60GB externar (firewire) IBM Hard Drive, get another brand IBM is not reliable, I lost all my herichical structure twice but I went my way around.

Get Final Cut Pro Express, you are going to loos only all the different options of exporting a movie, that eman that you will only export in DV codec full resolution, if that is what you want you are set. May be iDVD may work for you as well.

I would sugest you to get and older version of Final Cut Pro, do not pay extra for things you do not even know. I know FCP very well and all I do is cut, paste and export in a lot of different codecs.

Now, you can get the lower end PowerMac or if you want to do a better business, get a discontinued Dual 1.4 GHz. they may be very cheap and they are fast, trust me. You may end up with a ver good set up fro about $2300, including the software.

Go to eBay and look for people selling Macs in your location to check them out.

[Daveman Deluxe]

Those that are suggesting Final Cut Express, please stop. jrv has already mentioned that he can't because he shot his footage at 24 fps, which FCE does not support.

I recommend the 1.6 G5 since you're on a budget and need to get a monitor as well. If you had another $500, I'd go for the 1.8 GHz G5, but that is clearly not an option. I highly recommend an LCD, especially if you will be sitting at the computer for an extended period of time. The picture clarity just can't be beat and they cause less eye strain over time.

Get at least 1 GB of RAM (2 GB if you can) and at least 250 GB of hard disk space. Remember, RAM has to be upgraded in pairs on this machine. You HAVE to get a shuttle/jog wheel. I've edited video with both a mouse and with a shuttle/jog wheel and there is just no comparison.

If you are enrolled in college, get the education discounts. I think FCP is only $400 if you're a student, which would provide enough savings to go for the 1.8 GHz G5.

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by mymemory
Now, you can get the lower end PowerMac or if you want to do a better business, get a discontinued Dual 1.4 GHz. they may be very cheap and they are fast, trust me. You may end up with a ver good set up fro about $2300, including the software.

Go to eBay and look for people selling Macs in your location to check them out.

Yeah, mymemory, I'm leaning more in your direction... I'm mostly going to be doing straight cuts and simple dissolves, so a G5 is possibly even overkill for me. I do have to get Final Cut Pro 4 because it's the only one that will support 24fps footage. I'm interested in getting a dual 1.42 G4, but I'm afraid of eBay scams. Is there anywhere else where one can find dual 1.42's anymore?

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
I recommend the 1.6 G5 since you're on a budget and need to get a monitor as well. If you had another $500, I'd go for the 1.8 GHz G5, but that is clearly not an option. I highly recommend an LCD, especially if you will be sitting at the computer for an extended period of time. The picture clarity just can't be beat and they cause less eye strain over time. If you are enrolled in college, get the education discounts. I think FCP is only $400 if you're a student, which would provide enough savings to go for the 1.8 GHz G5.

I can't wait to see real-world comparisons between the 1.6 G5 and the dual 1.42 G4, other than the benchmarks posted here earlier. Unfortunately, I'm not a student, so no discount for me at this time. :( However, If you had to choose between the 1.6 with an LCD or the 1.8 with a CRT, which would you choose?

[i_wolf]

i still reckon that you should get the dual G5 2GHz. Regarding the other components in the system i would get a decent graphics card the 9600 pro is great. But i would initially spec it with the lowest amount of ram and the lowest sized hard drive.
Upon receiving the dual 2GHz i would order from crucial or some other company that does 3200 DDR ECC ram. Do the same with the hard disks. You will find that you will probably save more money and get even more bang for your buck. Apple tend to over charge on their ram and hard disk option. Spec em down on their site and buy elsewhere were i you.
Incidentally I am assuming that you will be working with extremely high resolutions based on that camera you are using. that extra grunt of a dual processor would definately come in handy. Maybe you could download a trial version of FCP (if one exists) from a mac equivalent of kazaa ???? Also maybe download Adobe premiere from kazaa demo as well (not advocating piracy here!) compare the two under the G5 and see if the cheaper premiere would do the trick for you.

[WannabeSQ]

I second the dual 2ghz G5. I got a nice 21" Sony Trinitron at the computer fair for $140, and its great. You can always get a newer/better monitor, but you can't get a new motherboard like you can with PCs. Scrounge around for a little extra cash.

BTW Amazon has FCP 4 for $900, so that will get you a used CRT to get you by while u save up for an LCD.

[Daveman Deluxe]

Originally posted by jrv3034
I can't wait to see real-world comparisons between the 1.6 G5 and the dual 1.42 G4, other than the benchmarks posted here earlier. Unfortunately, I'm not a student, so no discount for me at this time. :( However, If you had to choose between the 1.6 with an LCD or the 1.8 with a CRT, which would you choose?

I personally would choose a 1.6 with LCD, but I'm not a graphics professional or trying to edit a feature-length movie. I've seen documentaries of Industrial Light and Magic where both LCDs and CRTs are used. the 1.8 is more "future-proof" though.

I mainly recommend the LCD because the image really IS that much sharper, and it's guaranteed to be flicker-free.

You might consider the 1.42 dual G4, but I don't recommend it because you will run into severe bottlenecks when editing video--the front-side bus and RAM just can't keep up.

[NavyIntel007]

15" Powerbook loaded (I refuse to wait)
17" Cinema Display
iSight
30 GB iPod

A little more than $3000 but whatever, deal with it.

[John Q Public]

lemme see...that's easy...

another 23" CinemaHD
a DVI-ADC Adapter
and FinalCutPro 4

ok...so I'd have to come up with $400 (plus watever the tax is) outta my own pocket...but if someone's gonna give me $3000 to spend...at the Apple Store...

[Gymnut]

If you say you're going to school then you should be able to get the education version of Final Cut Pro which is no different from the commercial version except the price. Bought my FCP3 for 300.00 at my University bookstore. Should give you another 700 to play around with. Rock on.

Dual 1Ghz MDD, 2GB Ram, 240GB HD, Superdrive/Combodrive, Nvidia Geforce 4Ti, Apple 17" LCD, Klipsch 4.2+2SWS.

[Flowbee]

At the Apple Education store online, FCP4 is only $500... So now you can get your G5 dual 2's and a decent CRT.

I think you'll be happiest spending the bulk of your money on horsepower, and treating yourself to a sexy monitor sometime down the road.

[jrv3034]

Originally posted by Flowbee
At the Apple Education store online, FCP4 is only $500... So now you can get your G5 dual 2's and a decent CRT.

I think you'll be happiest spending the bulk of your money on horsepower, and treating yourself to a sexy monitor sometime down the road.

I'm not going to school; I already graduated from college. Not quite sure where everyone is getting that I'm a student somewhere...

Anyways, I think computer horsepower, RAM, and storage are more important than a drool-worthy LCD. So I'll probably go for a 1.6 or 1.8, depending on what monitor deals I find, and max out the specs as much as possible. Thanks all for the ideas and suggestions!;)

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by jrv3034
I'm not going to school; I already graduated from college. Not quite sure where everyone is getting that I'm a student somewhere...


The second sentence of your original post sez: "I've used both Windows and Mac at school..." and then went on to tell what you did this summer.

Sounded to me like you were still in school.

[John Q Public]

Originally posted by Flowbee
At the Apple Education store online, FCP4 is only $500... So now you can get your G5 dual 2's and a decent CRT.

I think you'll be happiest spending the bulk of your money on horsepower, and treating yourself to a sexy monitor sometime down the road.

I may have to think about getting the FCP4 in January (seeing that I'm planning on a few "Refresher" courses slightly outside my field)...but I don't think I've got enough horsepower right now...maybe when everyone jumps on the 64bit bandwagon and optimises for it (and they ditch that Industrial-Strength-Ugly Case for something a little more aesthetically pleasing...personally I think the MDD case is the best looking they've ever attached an Apple to the side of)...I like my G4...

PowerMac Dual 1.25Gz
2GB CorsairXMS CAS2 PC2700 DDR SDRAM
nVidia GeForce4 Ti
4 Seagate ST380021A (80GB 2MB Cache with Sound Deadening Insulation)
Pioneer DVR-105BK (SuperDrive)
Philips CDD5301 (Combo Drive)
Apple Cinema 23" HD Display
Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 THX Certified

I have the power...I just want another "sexy monitor" to match the one already on my desk (and a new A/C for my office...it gets a little warm in here...LOL...) :)

[John Q Public]

Originally posted by jrv3034
Yeah, mymemory, I'm leaning more in your direction... I'm mostly going to be doing straight cuts and simple dissolves, so a G5 is possibly even overkill for me. I do have to get Final Cut Pro 4 because it's the only one that will support 24fps footage. I'm interested in getting a dual 1.42 G4, but I'm afraid of eBay scams. Is there anywhere else where one can find dual 1.42's anymore?

you could go for a new Dual 1.25...with the 2MB L3 it's not too much slower than the Dual 1.42...not to mention with a CompUSSR discount (I'd assume they give their employees one)...should be able to walk out much cheaper

[Doctor Q]

Hey, John Q Public, nice middle name!

Forget $3000 at the Apple Store. I just saw a TV ad for Best Buy, saying they were giving away a $25,000 shopping spree. Now that's a good question for us all to ponder: If they gave you 30 minutes to spend $25,000 in a Best Buy, what would you buy? Or would you head back to the Apple Store?

[tazo]

I'd buy some nice furniture, a nice new compaq, bigass flat panel, great stereo, and uh maybe one of those 50" plasmas too :D

[John Q Public]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
Hey, John Q Public, nice middle name!

Forget $3000 at the Apple Store. I just saw a TV ad for Best Buy, saying they were giving away a $25,000 shopping spree. Now that's a good question for us all to ponder: If they gave you 30 minutes to spend $25,000 in a Best Buy, what would you buy? Or would you head back to the Apple Store?

if you can wat until around Christmas to use that $25 000 shopping spree at BestBuy, I could buy Apple toyz there too...NC is test marketing Apple Kiosks in BestBuy stores...and it's expected to go national sometime in December...it'd be nice for someone to give CompUSSR a little competition for Apple sales...

[Daveman Deluxe]

With three thousand at an Apple Store, I'd sell my old iBook, buy a 900 MHz iBook, a spare battery, upgrade the RAM, buy a 30 GB iPod, a nice still digital camera (think EOS-1D) and memory cards, and pocket the difference (what little there would be).

With twenty-five grand at BestBuy, I'd do all of the above, but then also buy the best home theater money can buy. Projector instead of a television, some quality German speakers... oh yeah, it'd be awesome.

[daveg5]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
I personally would choose a 1.6 with LCD, but I'm not a graphics professional or trying to edit a feature-length movie. I've seen documentaries of Industrial Light and Magic where both LCDs and CRTs are used. the 1.8 is more "future-proof" though.

I mainly recommend the LCD because the image really IS that much sharper, and it's guaranteed to be flicker-free.

You might consider the 1.42 dual G4, but I don't recommend it because you will run into severe bottlenecks when editing video--the front-side bus and RAM just can't keep up.

dont believe the hype. both crts and lcds have improved dramatically in the last 5 years, the differences are not that big anymore between them, although both are still stronger in certain aspects. most manufactors including sony (artisen) and lacie (electron blue) that sell both still give a major edge to crt's in color accuracy and motion video/games fields, but its getting real close.
one reason is the lack of a native res making all res clear, better viewing angles and more even color edge to edge and faster reponse time, lcds now have lower dot pitch then before, are faster for video and motion then before 25ms or less, have less dead and alway on pixels and some now have 3 year warranties, on the crt front some have digital inputs, superbrite tubes, flat screens, higher refresh with no dicernable flicker.
lcds on the other hand take up less space, are usually clearer, brighter have a more rock solid stable picture then at least older gen crt's, although that gap in rock solid picture and brightness is fading with the newer gen of crt's. lcds use less energy and are easier on the eyes when viewing for long periods. you dont see the two horizontal trinitron lines on the tube, but you do see the pixels, that's make it a draw.
for price performance and warranty the crts are the one to get. and refurb ones like the lacie 19" gen 4 at $199 are hard to pass up even as a second monitor.
you cant really go wrong with either lcd or crt though
. 21" fd crts start at as lttle as $399 to about $2000 for sonys' complete color system the artisen, and the 24" 2340x1440 wide screen.
i have had an excellent 21" trinitron for the last 3 years at $270 refurb and its still bright and sharp, i use supercal to calibrate it. i am planing on upgrading with a second monitor next year either a next gen crt, or next gen Lcd with color calibrator. i figure lcds will be cheaper and better by then and the same with lcds, i just wish that someone would introduce a dlp computer monitor, its so confusing because of all the options



http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?id=10037
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=xclZbeRXpshZb9sQ5WhTZqtaqLOPhWgLrcc=?CatalogCategoryID=bYEKC0%2eNE0IAAAD3vxR8fCjn&Dept=cpu&TemplateName=item%2fsy_item_a&ProductID=wi0KC0%2eN1o8AAAD3xaZ8fCjr&ContentItemPage=

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start;sid=xclZbeRXpshZb9sQ5WhTZqtaqLOPhWgLrcc=?CatalogCategoryID=WTMKC0%2eNw1wAAAD3xhR8fCjn&ProductID=7fkKC0%2eNkGgAAAD3dnF8fCjs&Dept=cpu

[tazo]

15" powerbook with 1 gig ram.

best portable machine out there
:)

[daveg5]

Originally posted by jrv3034
Um, what?:confused:
i would ask for 3000 cash instead of merchandise. maybe i would go back next year for a dual 3
if i had to buy now i would get a lacie 22 gen4 monitor 799 superb quality and color
ipod 10 299 all i need
isight 149 yes
final cut exp 99 all i need
digital cam 199 yes
digital camcor 399 yes yes
dual 1.4 g4 1599 all i need
total $3543 which i can afford-3000=3513 all i can afford
a lcds are dropping in price almost half every 2 years so i would get a lacie 22 gen 4 crt side by side to the 23" cinema it hol;ds its own and has better resolutions and color and no dead pixels although it does have two horizontal lines in the screen but with lcds you can see the pixels so that equals out

[Vlade]

Originally posted by jrv3034
Maybe, but I'd be more pissed if I got a dead pixel on my LCD...


Expect at least 3 dead pixels or so on your LCD from what I've heard

[Vlade]

Originally posted by jrv3034
Would you really suggest getting RAM direct from Apple? It seems pretty expensive, compared to something like Crucial.com or other stores... Is the Apple RAM better somehow? Also, would it be better to get the 160GB drive and add another (cheaper) drive later, instead of getting the 250GB?

No No No No No

Apple puts those crazy prices on RAM because some consumers are crazy enough to buy them, but the smart ones go to another place and buy RAM. The RAM is exactly the same, ones not any better than the other.

About the drive, it depends, if you are planning on using more than 125 gigs of space right now, than just get the 250, that 125 you expected to use is actually more like 180 (I know from personal experiance lol). Other wise just get a new drive later if you plan on using less than 100 GB

[Vlade]

Originally posted by jrv3034
Yso a G5 is possibly even overkill for me. Is there anywhere else where one can find dual 1.42's anymore?

A 1.6 GHZ G5 is going to be way faster than the dual 1.42s due to the memory bandwidth. I thought my G4 733MHZ computer was overkill when I bought it, the best game I wanted to play was Quake... Now I can't even play warcraft 3 at the quality I want, and Photoshop is soooo slow

[idea_hamster]

Originally posted by Vlade
Apple puts those crazy prices on RAM because some consumers are crazy enough to buy them, but the smart ones go to another place and buy RAM. The RAM is exactly the same, ones not any better than the other.
I agree that buying after-market RAM is a great way to save money, but I'm not sure that RAM is as homogenous as you suggest.

It's my understanding that OS X is more sensitive to RAM flaws and that poor quality RAM can lead to lots of kernel panics. There have been a number of posts on other threads where people have cured their kernel panic problem by taking out new generic RAM that they had added.

Buying generic RAM can work and save you money over name-brand after-market RAM (EDGE, Crucial, Viking, etc.) but you run the risk of having to go back to the vendor with the bad news that the money that they saved on production controls and testing led to you getting a bad stick.

If that trouble is worth the $20-50 difference, then by all means go generic! Lots do and "live to tell the tale". If you're not one to deal with hassle gladly, go after-market, but go brand-name.

JMHO.

[K4NN4B15]

I would have to agree, you should definately consider going LCD. particuarly if you want to use your mac for digital graphics and such. Im not a professional artist, but its a hobby and wow.. mac LCDs are beautiful and very telling of details that you would never even see on a CRT monitor. I had to keep my budget under 2400 or so and really wanted an ipod so i ended up getting an iMac mostly for the beautiful 17 inch display. But hey, that was my choice. I dont regret it one bit. But if i had 3000 and was willing to wait for the ipod i would have grab 1.6 and 17 or 20 inch cienema

[John Q Public]

Originally posted by daveg5
dont believe the hype. both crts and lcds have improved dramatically in the last 5 years, the differences are not that big anymore between them

There is one HUGE difference between LCD and CRT...production of heat...

I'll concede CRT image quality is approaching that of LCD Panels...and LCD's are nearly as competent with motion as a CRT...

My 23" CinemaHD is a beautiful example of that...vertical refresh of 75 (considering the average human eye only registers 60fps...and on a monitor it can still be seen as flickering)...but the reasons I plopped down the big cash:

Far Less Real-Estate...only takes up 24"x8" (little wide...but I can live with that)...unlike a monitor that (at bare minimum as deep as it has viewable screen) takes up far more space (even worse that I'm accustomed to a wide workspace provided by 2 monitors...that is more than liveable with my Cinema)

Fewer Wires...taking advantage of ADC lets me have only one wire for Power/Display/USB Hub...and likewise fewer wires to my G4's case...makes a much neater desktop than when I had my G3 (or god forbid my PC)...one from the wall to UPS...2 from the UPS to Case (one power, one USB)...from the case one USB (to the "Lower Hub" that supplies Printer, Scanner and MIDI adapter)...the ADC (with it's 2 port Hub one for KB (Mouse is off of KB) one for Floppy)...and lastly 1/8" stereo-minijack for my speakers...makes for a cleaner desk...

then we have the heat issue if you run a big monitor 19"-24" CRT...then you know about heat...if you run more than one...and a G4 (G5's are also likely excelent heat producers)...you're likely to get run out of the room quickly...

my G4 still produces ample heat to let me NOT use the heater in the winter (seeing that I live in Florida...leave the windows open whenever the machine is on in the winter)...but with an LCD...the heat isn't anywhere near as bad than when I ran CRT's...

if you can afford to do it...get the "Flat Panel"...you can get an NEC/Mitsubishi 18.1" (Native 1280x1024) usually under $500 (and lower quality LCD's close to the price of CRT's)...but it's all a personal preference thing...I bought mine...and yes...I know there aren't too many people with the disposable income to buy a $2000 LCD Panel (...I've heard a few comments about more money than brains from a few friends who are jealous of the new toys I bought when my G3 died...what can I say...I was in mourning...for about 4 1/2 hours...LOL...)

[Vlade]

Originally posted by John Q Public
There is one HUGE difference between LCD and CRT...production of heat...

I'll concede CRT image quality is approaching that of LCD Panels..

I think you had those switched around, right?

[Giaguara]

How much do yuo want for the kidney? :)


For the macs, I'd go pretty far with what they've suggested. 1,6 ghz, boosted ram, bigger hard drive, superdrve. and final cut express, and a niiice monitor. :p

[negrito]

i do a lot of videoediting and here are my suggestions:

first i have a dual g4 1ghz with 1 gb ram and i would say that final cut pro 3 runs really nice on it. the problem is that for specific and more complex tasks fcp can really slow down.

if you have to work fast with less waiting for renderings i would suggest final cut pro 4. then i would add a g5 1.8ghz because the bandwidth for the memory is far superior to the g4 and it is already faster than a 1.6 but not much more expensive.

memory is infact the most important thing in video editing (beside the hd...i will treat that later) because final cut renders faster if there is more ram. but i would suggest to buy the ram somewhere else. i would say that 1gb are absolutely necessary and 2gb would be nice. if you have less ram fcp will begin to swap files to the harddisk and this is mush slower.

the harddisk should be a 250gb because you will fill it up very fast. example: 60 minute footage are about 15gb plus sound in aiff makes 500mb plus other scenes and material (from after effects or cubase etc) for about 500mb plus all the renderings and final movie make about 20gb per project.

for video editing you should always have an empty an newly initalized harddisk so that the footage won't fragment and cause async problems etc. so you should reformat after every project but this is nearly impossible so i would say make 80gb for macosx and 170gb for video. like this you can have about 10 projects on the disk before you have to buy a new one. serial ata is nice but it won't make a big difference to a normal ata harddisk while saving your final films. you can never have a big enough harddisk if you are video editing.

the screen is also a very important element. we used the sony gdm-f520 21" crt last year and it was very good. this year we still have crt's as main screen and lcd as pallette screen. we talked about lcd and crt and our teacher said that the new lcds with 25ms response do very well for video editing. the only problem is the color as it is not 100% real color representative. but they come really near the crt's and a lot of little studios can't afford $15'000 to color calibrate all their peripherals so you can suggest that their calibrations are hand made and won't be 100% reliable. so you can maybe try a lcd because color difference compared to a crt is not as dramatic as it was 2 years ago.
an apple display has pure digital connections and one one cable to connect everything. besides that i would really suggest a lcd monitor with dvi port.

another problem is the resolution but for me are enough because i hate it when everything is so smal and i have to approach to the screen (unhelthy) insted to lower the resolution.

as it seems that you are not a 100% professional a lcd would be enough and a g5 1.8ghz also. dvd is surely also a really important feature if you want to go in dvd authoring later. of course it would be sad to have such a good camera and then have a system that can make use of it as it should. if you would be less interested in professional thing you would have bought a cheaper camera so now it isn't time to economize on the wrong side.

other peripherals like special keyboard or wheel are for later. first you have to try it like this and if you have some knowledge you should test the controlling options and you will realize if you need them or not.

so here is my system put together with educational prices because you will maybe find a friend that is still in college and can buy you the system:

Power Mac G5 1.8GHz - $2,356.00

1.8GHz PowerPC G5
250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
512MB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x256MB
Mac OS X - U.S. English
Accessory kit
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
56k V.92 internal modem


Apple Cinema Display (20" flat panel) - $1,169.00

Final Cut Pro 4.0 Academic - $499.00

Total = $4,024.00

or

Power Mac G5 1.8GHz - $2,356.00

1.8GHz PowerPC G5
250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
512MB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x256MB
Mac OS X - U.S. English
Accessory kit
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
56k V.92 internal modem


Sony Deluxepro Series 17" Flat Panel LCD SDM-X72 - $559.00

Final Cut Pro 4.0 Academic - $499.00

Total = $3454.00

the problem is that there is still 1gb ram for about $150 that you have to buy.

[daveg5]

definately get the crt over the lcd, because of better overall color, but mainly cause you can scale to the exact resolution of the project and it will be seen at in perfect clarity with much better response then even the best lcds.
the native resolution is an lcds biggest fault, then color purity then dead or always on pixels. they are almost as good but they are not and you still pay a major penalty to use them i say get a lacie 19-22" from $199-$799
90% i believe of households still view tv on a crt. now if you are publishing on the web or 720p hdtv the true scaling of crts make up for their size and slightly more eyestrain although they have improved just like lcds in the last couple of years

[daveg5]

Originally posted by John Q Public
There is one HUGE difference between LCD and CRT...production of heat...

Dave G5: i dont know where you live or what crt you have but i have a 9x12 bedroom and the 21 sony does not add much heat, back in the day yea but no more, also in most living rooms are crts and people still use the heaters, crts are not fire hazards, you embellish too much unless you had a bad one

JOHN:I'll concede CRT image quality is approaching that of LCD Panels...and LCD's are nearly as competent with motion as a CRT...

DaveG5: you got this backwards totally crts were here much longer its only in recent years that lcds could even be used for games, video and graphics but they are approaching crt quality in color, motion, viewing angle, but they are not there yet, this is a fact, they have however surpassed crts' only in contrast and brightness but the new superbright crt tubes are coming back strong there.

John:My 23" CinemaHD is a beautiful example of that...vertical refresh of 75 (considering the average human eye only registers 60fps...and on a monitor it can still be seen as flickering)...but the reasons I plopped down the big cash:

DaveG5: granted the 23"cinema is incredible at its native res, crt monitors like the lacie scan at 85+ refresh at 2036x1546 and well over a 100 refresh up to 200 refresh at lower res with no visible flicker unless you are filming from a camcorder using a diff refresh rate.
you must check out a newer gen crt not the older flickering ones which were bad here in the past.

JOHN:Far Less Real-Estate...only takes up 24"x8" (little wide...but I can live with that)...unlike a monitor that (at bare minimum as deep as it has viewable screen) takes up far more space (even worse that I'm accustomed to a wide workspace provided by 2 monitors...that is more than liveable with my Cinema)

DaveG5: this is totally true and one of Lcds biggest selling point and why they sold well even when they were bad for video and color and at ridiculous prices, remember the apple 15" flat display for $2000 virtually all those old flickering 17"crt outperformed it in everything back then but were to big and had noticeable flicker at anything under 75 refresh

John:Fewer Wires...taking advantage of ADC lets me have only one wire for Power/Display/USB Hub...and likewise fewer wires to my G4's case...makes a much neater desktop than when I had my G3 (or god forbid my PC)...one from the wall to UPS...2 from the UPS to Case (one power, one USB)...from the case one USB (to the "Lower Hub" that supplies Printer, Scanner and MIDI adapter)...the ADC (with it's 2 port Hub one for KB (Mouse is off of KB) one for Floppy)...and lastly 1/8" stereo-minijack for my speakers...makes for a cleaner desk.
..
Dave G5: this is not really true most highend crts use just 2 cables 1 power one vga or dvi. also many like the lacie 22" have built in 4 port usb 1.1 hubs so at worst you have 1 more cable which may be better and less strain on your G5
but you will have a much cleaner desk with an Lcd agreed.

JOHN:then we have the heat issue if you run a big monitor 19"-24" CRT...then you know about heat...if you run more than one...and a G4 (G5's are also likely excelent heat producers)...you're likely to get run out of the room quickly.

DaveG5: with one of the newer Large Crts you wont be much hotter then the crt you are running now., however i agree with two you may be which is why i suggest a crt/Lcd combo for the best of both worlds..

JOHN:my G4 still produces ample heat to let me NOT use the heater in the winter (seeing that I live in Florida...leave the windows open whenever the machine is on in the winter)...but with an LCD...the heat isn't anywhere near as bad than when I ran CRT's.

Dave G5. well i never heard anyone say that but i am in the north snow in winter and we still cut on the heater, we dont sit around the crt warming our hands and melting marshmillows.., so i must take your word on your heat issue.

John:if you can afford to do it...get the "Flat Panel"...you can get an NEC/Mitsubishi 18.1" (Native 1280x1024) usually under $500 (and lower quality LCD's close to the price of CRT's)...but it's all a personal preference thing...I bought mine...and yes...I know there aren't too many people with the disposable income to buy a $2000 LCD Panel (...I've heard a few comments about more money than brains from a few friends who are jealous of the new toys I bought when my G3 died...what can I say...I was in mourning...for about 4 1/2 hours...LOL...)

DaveG5:i would suggest the mitsubishi/nec 19" 1600x1200+ crts you can get refurbs with warranties well under $200 or new for around $299 with 3-5 year warranties and no dead pixels or native res.

I think the 23" cinema is awesome and if i had disposable income i would definitely recommend that also, however for video/graphics/games i would recommend the superior Lacie or nec/misu or sony 21- 22" 4th gen super brite crts. i am waiting to see them square off in tests. $649 and up with the money saved you can almost buy the G5 outright.
Also Lcds have been dropping half in price every two years and getting much better. so i expect 23" LCD in about a year at $1000 but it is a preference and pocketbook thing. even if one was clearly superior in all performance test it comes down to how will you use it, how much space do you have, how much money you have and if your cats have claws and kids have pointed pencil,like i said before they are close and you cant go wrong with either

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by John Q Public
My 23" CinemaHD is a beautiful example of that...vertical refresh of 75 (considering the average human eye only registers 60fps...and on a monitor it can still be seen as flickering)...but the reasons I plopped down the big cash:


Not to hijack the thread but the human eye is way more sensitive than that. Air Force pilots can ID pictures of aircraft flashed for 1/220th of a second. I can look thru the view finder of my camera and see the shutter open and close with the shutter speed set to 1/1000th of a second. And you can't really pin a FPS rating on the human eye because it is always "on" and doesn't refresh.


Lethal

[John Q Public]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Not to hijack the thread but the human eye is way more sensitive than that. Air Force pilots can ID pictures of aircraft flashed for 1/220th of a second. I can look thru the view finder of my camera and see the shutter open and close with the shutter speed set to 1/1000th of a second. And you can't really pin a FPS rating on the human eye because it is always "on" and doesn't refresh.


Lethal

my faux pas..I was referencing video and gaming...if the refresh rate is below 60fps (in gaming or high res video) there is noticable chop...if the video is interlaced (such as a traditional television) the point of becoming choppy is 35-40fps...

[John Q Public]

you got this backwards totally crts were here much longer its only in recent years that lcds could even be used for games, video and graphics


not entirely though...CRT's until recently were the kings of gaming...but gave up much ground in sharpness and clarity of imaging...high end professional CRT's have always had better color definition...this isn't always true of "consumer" level hardware though...for CRT's I've always owned high-end NEC's...and I was impressed enough with the image quality of the CinemaHD...then I saw someone playing UT:3 (without "Artifacts")...after that I opened a vein and bought it...the one complaint I do have with the CinemaHD...Black...or more it's being a really dark grey rather than black...but it's a minor quibble that I've had with most CRT's also...so I'll live with it...LOL...

...another note...all the health and OSHA types have been recommending LCD's to reduce eye-strain...for reasons of image sharpness and brightness...

[Daveman Deluxe]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Not to hijack the thread but the human eye is way more sensitive than that. Air Force pilots can ID pictures of aircraft flashed for 1/220th of a second. I can look thru the view finder of my camera and see the shutter open and close with the shutter speed set to 1/1000th of a second. And you can't really pin a FPS rating on the human eye because it is always "on" and doesn't refresh.

Though your point is valid, the amount of time your viewfinder is closed (assuming it's a SLR) is MUCH longer than 1/1000 of a second. Though the shutter itself is only open that long, there are other mechanisms involved in the process that close off your viewfinder and do so for much longer than 1/1000 of a second.