Apogee Duet

[hukuma]

Hola,
Anyone using this device? Any comments? Thinking about using it with my 17 MBP for some portable demo work. I'm thinking that this little gizmo paired with Garageband (or perhaps Logic Studio, if I can pull the trigger) could be nice for some demo / sketch work.
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. I am a big fan of Apogee...the quality has always amazed me.
Keep Groovin',
HUKUMA

[OldCorpse]

see:

http://www.bigbluelounge.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39669

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-product-alert/143423-apogee-introduces-duet-professional-two-channel-firewire-audio-interface-mac.html

[hukuma]

thanks for the links...I was starting to think that no one knew a thing about this little gizmo!

[OldCorpse]

There are no comments from users, because nobody has one as yet. It's supposed to ship any day now, though.

[gotzero]

I am planning on getting one. I am kind of unhappy the ins and outs are not balanced. In most of the applications I will use it for it will not be too big of a deal, but I just think it was a silly thing to overlook.

[hukuma]

Pls explain...I'm a noob when it comes to doing this myself. I've historically left the recording to someone that knows what they're doing...I'm hopeful to use the Duet for some rough demo / song sketch work. I basically record demos using my Roland V-Drums, a trusty (perhaps rusty) SM-58 or 57 and a M-Audio keyboard.
I'm looking for a high quality, great sounding, SIMPLE way to put my ideas into this beautiful box they call a 17' MBP. If it sounds professionally produced, all the better.

[gotzero]

Balanced outputs make life easier for longer cable runs, certain outboard audio gear (mic pres for example) often have only balanced outputs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio explains much better and faster than I would.

I am just griping b/c my monitor system is all balanced, and I do not want to plug into a transformer to plug in. This will be a killer mobile input and I cannot wait.

[CanadaRAM]

I basically record demos using my Roland V-Drums, a trusty (perhaps rusty) SM-58 or 57 and a M-Audio keyboard.
I'm looking for a high quality, great sounding, SIMPLE way to put my ideas into this beautiful box they call a 17' MBP.
The Duet has no MIDI interface, so if the M-Audio keyboard has it's own USB/MIDI interface built in, that's OK.

The Duet is simple, but there are minimal mixing capabilities. If you have an outboard mixer, then you can use multiple sources, otherwise it will be 1 or 2 mics OR one or two channels of instruments, at a time.

If it sounds professionally produced, all the better.
That isn't down to the tools, mate, that's down to the craftsman's skills.

the ins and outs are not balanced.
Que?
There a 2 balanced, XLR mic inputs with phantom power, and 2 unbalanced 1/4" instrument level inputs.
The output for monitor speakers is unbalanced, as is normal.

[gotzero]

Que?
There a 2 balanced, XLR mic inputs with phantom power, and 2 unbalanced 1/4" instrument level inputs.
The output for monitor speakers is unbalanced, as is normal.

Most of my audio hardware uses balanced main outs, and my monitors use balanced ins. Also, what if I want to use my analog pre but Apogee A/D. Most mic pres are balanced I/O. I am splitting hairs, but I would like at least an option for balanced line I/O, as it is how I prefer to work (long cable runs, etc)

[Plumbstone]

you can always use something like this http://www.mcminone.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=MCMProducts&product%5Fid=555%2D8485

have a really short unbalanced cable to connect this to your duet and use balanced connections for your long cables...

[CanadaRAM]

Most of my audio hardware uses balanced main outs, and my monitors use balanced ins. Also, what if I want to use my analog pre but Apogee A/D.

Well, then you would choose an interface a bit higher up the scale from this entry level (albeit nice) Apogee.

[gotzero]

Well, then you would choose an interface a bit higher up the scale from this entry level (albeit nice) Apogee.

Already have some ;)

I am just looking forward to something as small as the Duet and truly bus powered... That is probably why they are not balancing everything anyway.

[e.m.]

Most of my audio hardware uses balanced main outs, and my monitors use balanced ins. Also, what if I want to use my analog pre but Apogee A/D. Most mic pres are balanced I/O. I am splitting hairs, but I would like at least an option for balanced line I/O, as it is how I prefer to work (long cable runs, etc)

I am interested in this too. Will it be a problem if I use my standalone mic pre that has balanced out connected to the unbalanced apogee instrument in?

[zimv20]

Will it be a problem if I use my standalone mic pre that has balanced out connected to the unbalanced apogee instrument in?

the unbalanced part is okay, but the high-impedance of the instrument input is dodgy.

not sure what'll happen, i've never tried it.

[e.m.]

the unbalanced part is okay, but the high-impedance of the instrument input is dodgy.

not sure what'll happen, i've never tried it.

hmm. i'm sure apogee had in mind that some users will use external pre's. i wonder if there's a way to bypass the duet pres when connected through xlr.

[zimv20]

which pre are you looking to use?

[e.m.]

which pre are you looking to use?

right now I have the RNP.

[zimv20]

good pre. i'd give the apogee's a listen, though, i doubt you'd lose much by using them.

[e.m.]

good pre. i'd give the apogee's a listen, though, i doubt you'd lose much by using them.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Except I use the inserts on the RNP, and I'll lose that if I went with the Duet pres. Also, in the future, I'd like to use other pre's as well...

I contaceted Mercenary about this. I'll post here if I find out anything.

My MOTU Ultralite just went kaput, so I'm looking for a new converter.

[zimv20]

if those are your requirements, maybe the duet isn't the right choice.

[e.m.]

if those are your requirements, maybe the duet isn't the right choice.

well, as long as the duet can handle input from an external balanced output, it'll be the right choice.

2 ins 2 outs are all I need.

[zimv20]

if not, mini mp?

[e.m.]

Mercenary just got back to me (that was fast!) and it takes any +4 line level signal, and it is balanced. Yay. That solves my problem!!

[zimv20]

ah, very cool.

[hukuma]

Well...I found one at my local music store this weekend. I couldn't pass it up.
Thus far, I've only had an hour or so with it...just enough time to install software, figure out the basics, and record a couple of tracks on GB to test out the basic input features (used my acoustic Tayor with built-in pickup & a trusty (perhaps rusty) SM-58).
Next stop...full Logic Studio workout. If I could just skip work one or two days this week...

[e.m.]

Well...I found one at my local music store this weekend. I couldn't pass it up.
Thus far, I've only had an hour or so with it...just enough time to install software, figure out the basics, and record a couple of tracks on GB to test out the basic input features (used my acoustic Tayor with built-in pickup & a trusty (perhaps rusty) SM-58).
Next stop...full Logic Studio workout. If I could just skip work one or two days this week...

Congratulations on your purchase. Please share your experience when you get a chance. Are you on Tiger or Leopard?

[ZiggyPastorius]

Next stop...full Logic Studio workout. If I could just skip work one or two days this week...

You must have a pretty damn good job if you can skip a couple days of work to play around with things you just spent close to $1000, if not more, on.

[ZiggyPastorius]

Next stop...full Logic Studio workout. If I could just skip work one or two days this week...

You must have a pretty damn good job if you can skip a couple days of work to play around with things you just spent close to $1000, if not more, on.

[Drumjim85]

My problem with this unit is that they don't publish the Specs .... Everything else apogee has the specs listed... and when compared to other products they stand up pretty well... so it makes me wonder just how bad the specs are to make them not want to publish them ...

(not that specs are the end all judge (that should be your ears) ... but it doesn't hurt... )

[Luap]

It looks nice initially, but the fact it uses a break out cable would really annoy me.
Otherwise, it looks good. I hope it sounds as good! Expensive too, but then all Apogee gear is.

[juxtaposer]

My problem with this unit is that they don't publish the Specs .... Everything else apogee has the specs listed... and when compared to other products they stand up pretty well... so it makes me wonder just how bad the specs are to make them not want to publish them ...

(not that specs are the end all judge (that should be your ears) ... but it doesn't hurt... )

A quote here from Digital Village (http://www.dv247.com/invt/45966/):-
"The main features of the Apogee DUET include:

* Two channels of professional-quality 24-bit/96kHz audio input and output
* Two balanced XLR inputs, with selectable 48V phantom power on each input
* Premium, digitally controlled microphone preamps with 75 dB of gain
* Two unbalanced high impedance instrument inputs
* One high-level stereo headphone output
* Two unbalanced -10 dBV line outputs for powered speakers
* Multi-function controller knob for volume and input gain control and assignable MIDI control
* Multi-segment LED meters to display input or output levels
* FireWire 400, compatible with Mac OS X Core Audio
* Control functions built directly into Apple’s Logic Pro, Soundtrack Pro and GarageBand
* Compatible with any Core Audio-compliant audio application
* Apogee’s Maestro software for advanced control and low latency mixing
* System Requirements: Computer - Mac G4 1GHz or faster, G5 or Intel CPU. Memory - 1 GB RAM minimum, 2 GB recommended. OS - 10.4.10 or greater. Connection - FireWire 400 port
* Package contents include: Duet, Breakout Cable, FireWire Cable, Apogee Software CD and User’s Guide"

Pretty nice for such a small interface. And for the price, I don't think I could say no either. Will be grabbing one when I make my Macbook purchase.
Hope that info helps :)

[tianuk3]

hey guys!

Im a complete newbie to all this music production stuff... but I want to start to try and makes beats and produce tracks....

My plan so far... Logic Pro... Macbook and one of these Apogee Duets...

I take it the Apogee Duet is basically the "external soundcard" which will provide input for devices such as guitar and keyboard? and produce great sound (if plugged into speakers) rather than the mediocre Macbook speakers?

What else would you recommend...could you guys recommend a good pair of headphones, a midi keyboard and what else do I need to get started? I am on a tight budget....so anything decent but cheap is what Im looking for...

Thanks for help...

[Drumjim85]

A quote here from Digital Village (http://www.dv247.com/invt/45966/):-
"The main features of the Apogee DUET include:

* Two channels of professional-quality 24-bit/96kHz audio input and output
* Two balanced XLR inputs, with selectable 48V phantom power on each input
* Premium, digitally controlled microphone preamps with 75 dB of gain
* Two unbalanced high impedance instrument inputs
* One high-level stereo headphone output
* Two unbalanced -10 dBV line outputs for powered speakers
* Multi-function controller knob for volume and input gain control and assignable MIDI control
* Multi-segment LED meters to display input or output levels
* FireWire 400, compatible with Mac OS X Core Audio
* Control functions built directly into Apple’s Logic Pro, Soundtrack Pro and GarageBand
* Compatible with any Core Audio-compliant audio application
* Apogee’s Maestro software for advanced control and low latency mixing
* System Requirements: Computer - Mac G4 1GHz or faster, G5 or Intel CPU. Memory - 1 GB RAM minimum, 2 GB recommended. OS - 10.4.10 or greater. Connection - FireWire 400 port
* Package contents include: Duet, Breakout Cable, FireWire Cable, Apogee Software CD and User’s Guide"

Pretty nice for such a small interface. And for the price, I don't think I could say no either. Will be grabbing one when I make my Macbook purchase.
Hope that info helps :)

yes, but thats not the specs I'm looking for .....

Something like this (off of the rosetta 200):
SPECS:

* Sample rates: 44.1 - 48k, 88.2 - 96k, 176.4 - 192k (+/-10%);
* Frequency response: 10 - 20k (+/- 0.2 dB) at 44.1k
* Analog max levels are adjustable between +2 dBu and +26 dBu
* Dynamic range: 114 dB A weighted (AD + DA)
* THD+N: -105 dB (AD), -103 dB (DA)
* Power: 90-250 VAC, 50-60Hz, 45Wat

The big ones I'm looking for are Dynamic range and THD

[juxtaposer]

yes, but thats not the specs I'm looking for .....

Something like this (off of the rosetta 200):


The big ones I'm looking for are Dynamic range and THD

You're welcome by the way... :rolleyes:
Maybe having a re-check of those specs might make you realize that some (THD+N) are not applicable to the Apogee Duet - due to the rosetta being a sample-rate converter and not a firewire audio interface (essentially a digital pre-amp and monitor). So in effect it is a linear audio device and therefore nothing should be added to the harmonics of the audio.
Other specs on the other hand were there.
Sample Rates? It says in the first line what the max sample rate is - 96k
Power? Powered by firewire, therefore irrelevant due to the fact that most users signal-out will be going directly to either a powered amp or into their active studio monitors.
Juxtaposer :D

[juxtaposer]

What else would you recommend...could you guys recommend a good pair of headphones, a midi keyboard and what else do I need to get started? I am on a tight budget....so anything decent but cheap is what Im looking for...

Thanks for help...

Novation make a nice, affordable range of USB Midi Keyboards, I use the Remote 25 SL at home, and I tried the even more affordable model the Remote 25 LE and that was a brilliant Midi controller for the price. Obviously they're only 25 key models, but they do make models with 61 keys (Remote SL61).
Sennheiser make some great headphones and their HD25's are my current choice at home. They do make some more affordable models ideal for flat response monitoring.
Hope that helps, good luck tianuk :)

[Drumjim85]

You're welcome by the way... :rolleyes:
Maybe having a re-check of those specs might make you realize that some (THD+N) are not applicable to the Apogee Duet - due to the rosetta being a sample-rate converter and not a firewire audio interface (essentially a digital pre-amp and monitor). So in effect it is a linear audio device and therefore nothing should be added to the harmonics of the audio.
Other specs on the other hand were there.
Sample Rates? It says in the first line what the max sample rate is - 96k
Power? Powered by firewire, therefore irrelevant due to the fact that most users signal-out will be going directly to either a powered amp or into their active studio monitors.
Juxtaposer :D

1. I didn't thank you because i had found all of that information when it was first announced ...
2. Yes THD and Dynamic range DO matter, since it is a A/D D/A converter ...
ya, it might throw in a firewire interface and a preamp and stuff in it as well ... but it still converts audio... (see you can turn the rosetta series stuff into a firewire interface too) (http://www.apogeedigital.com/downloads/documents.php?show=xfirewire_card)
3. The rosetta might be able to change the sample rate of digital audio ... but first and foremost it is a A/D D/A converter ....

[juxtaposer]

1. I didn't thank you because i had found all of that information when it was first announced ...
2. Yes THD and Dynamic range DO matter, since it is a A/D D/A converter ...
ya, it might throw in a firewire interface and a preamp and stuff in it as well ... but it still converts audio... (see you can turn the rosetta series stuff into a firewire interface too) (http://www.apogeedigital.com/downloads/documents.php?show=xfirewire_card)
3. The rosetta might be able to change the sample rate of digital audio ... but first and foremost it is a A/D D/A converter ....

1. 'I've already seen that thanks' may have been a polite response
2. THD is unimportant in an interface like this, as is the Dynamic Range. My home's Focusrite Saffire does the exact same job, and the Dynamic Range is dependent entirely on my other hardware and software. Whether the audio is converted ADDA or not there is no audible colouring of the sound.
3. Didn't know that thanks :)
Anyway, for what it costs (£300), it is a great little box and very useful for somebody with a laptop or the like for on-the-road editing/recording.

[Drumjim85]

1. 'I've already seen that thanks' may have been a polite response
2. THD is unimportant in an interface like this, as is the Dynamic Range. My home's Focusrite Saffire does the exact same job, and the Dynamic Range is dependent entirely on my other hardware and software. Whether the audio is converted ADDA or not there is no audible colouring of the sound.
3. Didn't know that thanks :)
Anyway, for what it costs (£300), it is a great little box and very useful for somebody with a laptop or the like for on-the-road editing/recording.

you don't fully understand what thd and dynamic range mean... Any conversion stage can/does change the the way something sounds

[juxtaposer]

you don't fully understand what thd and dynamic range mean... Any conversion stage can/does change the the way something sounds
I understand what both terms mean, and I agree that the sound would be affected in some way due to the conversion stage. I don't personally see this as important as I am sure that the colouration of the sound would not be anywhere near significant enough to notice. Still haven't been able to find the actual THD+N spec for the 'Duet' yet, though I don't think it will be a noticable factor.
The Dynamic Range of the 'Duet', however (due to it's 24bit digital audio) should theoretically be close to 144db. It may possibly be less, but I don't see why anything over 100-110db would make any difference as most music contains far less than 100db Dynamic Range. Hope that helps :)
Anyway, congrats to hukuma for purchasing a great piece of kit. I'm sure you'll have a load of fun with it. :D

[petersays]

yes, but thats not the specs I'm looking for .....

Something like this (off of the rosetta 200):

Yeah, well i don't think you can compare the specs of a pocketsize firewire interface with rack mount ad/da-converter.

Portable may be the keyword here folks.

Tha Duet looks great. I just ordered a MacBook and Logic 8 so i'm gonna go to the store and get a demonstration of this little thingy. I guess it's easy to have it connected while editing on the go aswell. Heavy mixing on the train to/from school in the future i hope.

[Toni]

Hello to everybody I have a Duet since a week ago, what I can tell you from my short experience is that the sound is the best I ever heard, clear and powerful. but there is two problems I have found, first from it does some clicks you dont expect, to much for me, but I don know where they coming from, I have the latest soft and drivers. second I have power pc G5 it does have to firewire ports in one I have the duet at the other a video/audio capture device, well the Duet Work the video device dont, when I disconnect the duet the video works perfect as always did before connecting the duet I dont know why. But believe me the sound is great, and for people that dont need to much I/Os like me is the best in the market, I hope I can solve those problems, best regards

[e.m.]

Hello to everybody I have a Duet since a week ago, what I can tell you from my short experience is that the sound is the best I ever heard, clear and powerful. but there is two problems I have found, first from it does some clicks you dont expect, to much for me, but I don know where they coming from, I have the latest soft and drivers. second I have power pc G5 it does have to firewire ports in one I have the duet at the other a video/audio capture device, well the Duet Work the video device dont, when I disconnect the duet the video works perfect as always did before connecting the duet I dont know why. But believe me the sound is great, and for people that dont need to much I/Os like me is the best in the market, I hope I can solve those problems, best regards

Can the clicks be from setting the latency too low?

[zimv20]

clicks and pops most likely means the DAW and apogee are each running on their own clocks. the DAW should be set to sync to the apogee unit.

[bilbo--baggins]

I'm just about to get the Apogee Duet, and I'm thinking of replacing my (don't laugh, please!) Harman Kardon Soundsticks II and getting proper monitors. The ones I've been looking at all say they have balanced 1/4" inputs. Am I right to assume that the monitors will still work with an unbalanced source - would just standard mono patch leads (1/4") work ok? Any recommendations for monitors - one example I've read about is the Yamaha MSP5 STUDIO. I want something that's as flat as possible - and I definitely don't want any tone controls!

Edit:

Just read the following for the Yamaha's: Balanced XLR and unbalanced 1/4-inch phone jack inputs, so I guess that answers my own question.

Still, any recommendations? The MSP5 STUDIO is about my limit cost wise.

[thechidz]

I have no need for a midi device and the apogee duet looks great for me. (mostly acoustic guitar and some vocals maybe strings or piano here and there, almost all acoustic instruments)

I think a setup with the duet running a pair of matched stereo cardiod mics to my macbook pro would be a sweet setup.

Can users comment on the portability and quality of sound as well as ease of use of the product? Also, let me know what DAW you're running?

Thanks!

[zimv20]

for the mic's, since your room sounds good, consider a pair of the avenson audio Sto-2's.

[thechidz]

for the mic's, since your room sounds good, consider a pair of the avenson audio Sto-2's.

Thanks zim... I'll check them out

I dont currently have immediate access to the same room I recorded the last album in (that was in Madison) But there are some nice venues where I live now that Im looking forward to exploring with the new gear;)

[thechidz]

for the mic's, since your room sounds good, consider a pair of the avenson audio Sto-2's.

these look great... do you know of anywhere I could pick up a used pair by chance?

[mthao00]

Ok, I want to purchase a Duet soon. You know, after a long year, I think it'll be a great Christmas present for myself. haha... It sounds greedy but I already have presents prepared for the family.

haha... Ok. I'm really just wondering what Duet owners think about this little audio interface. It's been a while since someone posted an actual opinion from hands-on experience. Being that the Duet is fairly new, I can't find any reviews or opinions on the Internet.

Thanks, mT :apple:

[Toni]

Ok, I want to purchase a Duet soon. You know, after a long year, I think it'll be a great Christmas present for myself. haha... It sounds greedy but I already have presents prepared for the family.

haha... Ok. I'm really just wondering what Duet owners think about this little audio interface. It's been a while since someone posted an actual opinion from hands-on experience. Being that the Duet is fairly new, I can't find any reviews or opinions on the Internet.

Thanks, mT :apple:

I have one and what I can tell is that sounds great but it has a lot of problems, like clicks, noises etc, it also have a lot of incompatibilities with other systems, for instance other sound or video capture firewire equipment, and the bigger one is that it does not have his proper AC external power adaptor and it sacrifices the firewire bus only to the duet, that is my experience. Now I would not buy it. good lock.

[zimv20]

clicks, noises etc,

sounds to me you haven't sync'ed up the duet clock and DAW clock.

[Toni]

there is not away to select format in the duet soft just select duet as the output

[zimv20]

just tell the DAW to take its clock from that apogee. Or is the unit supposed to do that for you?

[Toni]

You tell the DAW you want the duet as Sound device and thats all, that suppose to me that should slave the DAW to the duet, but if you close the DAW and open Itunes or some other audio player thAN estrange noises come around and then I have to open audio/midi set up utility, change the clock to 48 and then back to 44.1 and everything returns to normal, spirits from the outer space fly around maybe. I just don't know and that drive me crazy, actually I'm thinking in return the duet to the shop, apogee support dont have an answer. thank you.

[thechidz]

Just picked up my duet. So far sounds freaking amAzing through iTunes!

[Oirectine]

I sold my MOTU Ultralite for the Duet a few weeks ago.

I won't comment on sound quality because I don't trust myself to honestly be able to appraise that without a direct "A/B" comparison, which I can't do because I sold the Ultralite. I'll just say that it sounds "at least as good" for recording guitar and for playback.

As for Duet's features and performance: it's working well for me. The only problems I have are:

-It is annoying that the headphone and main out levels are tied together. You can set it up so one is muted while the other is active, but when you switch between them, the volume level will carry over. So to be safe, I have to turn the volume all the way down, switch, then adjust the output levels again. It would be nice to have it "remember" where you had it set before.

-The windows that pop up when you adjust the encoder button (be it for any of the inputs or outputs) are basically a good idea, but they don't work very well in Leopard, because they will only appear on one "space" for me. So if I'm in space #4 and adjust something, I'll get no visual feedback. Not really a huge deal, but kind of annoying. Oh, also, it's not the same as OS X's volume feedback window, because you can't click on things below the Duet's feedback window. Also just slightly annoying, not a huge deal.

[HenryRollins]

Hey guys I've had an Apogee Duet for a while now and I LOVE it but there are 2 main problems that I encounter very often and I was wondering if anyone could help me out.

1) I use it with Logic Studio 8. I used a lot of virtual NI instruments. I used Guitar Rig 3 with my guitar to record, etc. Sometimes, for no apparent reason, the input from the guitar or bass or what have you will start glitching like crazy. Instead of my guitar sound comming out, it starts squeeling and producing random artifacts. I troubleshooted everything and it's not my cable or instrument or Logic or anything like that. Playback of any other audio still comes out fine... but my inputs become screwed. To remedy the problem I have to restart my computer. I can just unplug and replug the duet to fix the problem quicker but this leads to

2)... problem 2: Whenever I unplug the duet, even when I have all the applications using it closed and the integrated speakers used in the preferences.. the moment I unplug the duet, my screen turns gray and it says I need to restart the computer. Bummer!

[mthao00]

:apple:problem 2: Whenever I unplug the duet, even when I have all the applications using it closed and the integrated speakers used in the preferences.. the moment I unplug the duet, my screen turns gray and it says I need to restart the computer. Bummer!

I unplugged the Duet twice from the MBP while still on and the same thing happened. Actually, once the desktop resetted and all open applications were closed. Hopefully there's a fix but for now, don't unplug.

Also, OS startup time takes forever when the Duet is plugged in. Any advice on this?

The Duet is killer though. Just awesome.

mT

[thechidz]

:apple:

I unplugged the Duet twice from the MBP while still on and the same thing happened. Actually, once the desktop resetted and all open applications were closed. Hopefully there's a fix but for now, don't unplug.

Also, OS startup time takes forever when the Duet is plugged in. Any advice on this?

The Duet is killer though. Just awesome.

mT
interesting, havent had these problems...

[HenryRollins]

I don't really care about that. My biggest problem is the one I described about the artifacts and the random noise produced when I use a virtual instrument (or even sometimes without) with an input like a mic or line in. The problem is that this problem is hard to isolate so if I take it back to the store and they have apogee spend 3 months examining the unit and saying it's "fine", then I'll have just lost a ton of time and money... maybe I should reformat my Imac? It's only a couple of months old though... so I'm in a bit of a dillema as you can see. :(

[Toni]

what I know for my short experience with duet is that is very sensitive, and remember duet is a piece of software not hardware, if you start the computer without the duet and afterwards you plug in the duet its fine, but if you start with the duet plugged in and then you unplug and plug again the driver turns crazy, for me is a fail in the driver but that is the way it is apogee should update the driver, another important fact is that the duet does not have a external power it takes that from the firewire port, it sucks all the firewire power and some other hardwares without external power wont work. I also has a lot of strange noises but I can't help on that by now, the thing this duet that should be a good piece of hardware it is not by now as good as they say and the apogee support, as far as I'm concerned is very poor. best regards

[mrcvxxi]

I bought the duet 2 weeks ago... alas I had to take it back. It is a beautiful interface that works and sounds beautiful, especially paired with my macbook pro but when it came down to my 15 day return policy I had to stick with the ultralite...for now.
A. I've had my ultralite way too long to return.
B. the ultralite will fit in my laptop bag as easy
C. I've really been doing studio recording and no live stuff
and
D. As great as the inputs on the duet are there are so many more + midi.

I do intend on getting the duet, again, soon
I just had to prioritize.
I might sell the ultralite, pick up the traveller then get the duet...
meh, time will tell

[JonasLondon]

EDIT: I "MOVED" THIS TO THE MAIN THREAD AS I FEAR I AM STEALING THE CORE DISCUSSION THREAD OTHERWISE :-) thanks for any help though on the Apogee Duet question here!
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Hi all,

I've read this and many other threads about the "best" firewire audio interface. I am looking for some more advice by the more experienced people on the board, it would be awesome to get some more input - thanks a bunch in advance guys.

background:
After years of no music production I am in the process of getting set up for it again. Music styles: "House/Dance/Electro" plus occasional "soundtracks" for short films.

KIT list so far:
- new Mac Pro "Early 2008" (waiting for the damn NVidia 8800GT card to become available) with 2 + 6 GB RAM

SOFTWARE:
Reason4 (I won this, so I will probably use it via ReWire for synth-instruments)

Ableton Live 7 or Apple Logic 8 (or both, Logic has become so cheap in comparison to Version 7!) - haven't finalized that yet (love the whole new Logic Studio 8 but a good friend and successful producer recommends Live - I'll have a shoot-out betweenthe two soon :) )

MIDI Controller:
I plan on getting something like the Novation ReMote SL25 compact.

AUDIO INTERFACE - this is the biggest question mark at the moment
I have read up on / narrowed it down to:

- Native Instruments Audio Kontrol 1 (USB)
- PreSonus Firebox (FW)
- Apogee Duet (FW)
- MOTU Ultralite (FW)

The Audio Kontrol 1 is apparently quite good, although I don't see any use for the knobs and clicks and the fact that it is USB is not really winning me over... With all the claims that USB2 is almost as fast as FW400, I never seem to get that for other devices, and I intend to use the software instruments and effects of Live/Logic a LOT, so I reckon FW would be on the safer side?

I've read good reviews but recently mixed feelings about the PreSonus Firebox, a lot of people seem to be having Firewire issues, although it does not seem to be happening on the Mac Pro's from what I've read.

I love the flexibility of the MOTU, but honestly I will hardly ever record more than 1 Mic / Vocals / 1 Guitar, so the Apogeee Duet should be fine...

have I just answered my own questions? :confused:

What I really want, even though I am a bloody beginner, is great sounding equipment, notthe least that I love listening to good quality music through iTunes too, and I understand a good FW Soundcard can help immensely here too, compared to the built-in "soundcard"+"headphone jack".... obvious as it is, huh? :-)


I will create a separate thread on choosing headphones for initial mixing... (I know,but I can't place mega monitors in this room, my neighbour downstairs would go bonkers).

THANKS!
Jonas

[subcdriller]

Am considering purchase of an Apogee Duet but only seek high quality music audio from my computer - will not use for microphone, recording or playing an external tuner. Is the Duet overkill for my needs? Only want high quality music audio?


Subcdriller

[cubbie5150]

Am considering purchase of an Apogee Duet but only seek high quality music audio from my computer - will not use for microphone, recording or playing an external tuner. Is the Duet overkill for my needs? Only want high quality music audio?


Subcdriller

I got a Duet for the same reason as you want one. Only you can decide whether it's "overkill" or not... For me, the sound quality is worth the pricetag... I enjoy listening to my ALAC files so much more now...

[fernmeister]

I sold my MOTU Ultralite for the Duet a few weeks ago.

-It is annoying that the headphone and main out levels are tied together. You can set it up so one is muted while the other is active, but when you switch between them, the volume level will carry over. So to be safe, I have to turn the volume all the way down, switch, then adjust the output levels again. It would be nice to have it "remember" where you had it set before.


The way around this is to save different scenes in the Maestro Control panel. So you can set your headphone levels, save that, then set your monitor levels, save that, then switch from one to another with a couple of mouse clicks. You can do the same to save settings for different microphones, different input configs, etc.


As for the overal Duet performance - I found the sound fantastic and the interface is really good to use. But I've also had the random harsh distortion thing and the only reliable solution that works for me is to close the app, log out and log back in. I had Kernel panics when switching sampling rates, but that has only happened once since the Mac Pro firmware update. However, the Kernel Panics still happen when switching users (though not always). Apogee customer service have admitted there is a problem and a fix is "on the way."

What's not clear is if the problem is OSX related, or Apogee related, or both.

[scooterguitar]

The way around this is to save different scenes in the Maestro Control panel. So you can set your headphone levels, save that, then set your monitor levels, save that, then switch from one to another with a couple of mouse clicks. You can do the same to save settings for different microphones, different input configs, etc.


As for the overal Duet performance - I found the sound fantastic and the interface is really good to use. But I've also had the random harsh distortion thing and the only reliable solution that works for me is to close the app, log out and log back in. I had Kernel panics when switching sampling rates, but that has only happened once since the Mac Pro firmware update. However, the Kernel Panics still happen when switching users (though not always). Apogee customer service have admitted there is a problem and a fix is "on the way."

What's not clear is if the problem is OSX related, or Apogee related, or both.

This might be old news, but...
I am a new mac and Duet user, but on another forum someone else mentioned this problem. Basically to help the update probelms they said to always update the Duet first and the mac after or there are issues sometimes. Again, I am new and have been updating my mac the past few weeks and not the duet. Heck, I don't even know how to update the Duet! It works fine so i tend to leave well enough alone for my simple needs.

[junior]

I sold my MOTU Ultralite for the Duet a few weeks ago.

I won't comment on sound quality because I don't trust myself to honestly be able to appraise that without a direct "A/B" comparison, which I can't do because I sold the Ultralite. I'll just say that it sounds "at least as good" for recording guitar and for playback.

As for Duet's features and performance: it's working well for me. The only problems I have are:

-It is annoying that the headphone and main out levels are tied together. You can set it up so one is muted while the other is active, but when you switch between them, the volume level will carry over. So to be safe, I have to turn the volume all the way down, switch, then adjust the output levels again. It would be nice to have it "remember" where you had it set before.

-The windows that pop up when you adjust the encoder button (be it for any of the inputs or outputs) are basically a good idea, but they don't work very well in Leopard, because they will only appear on one "space" for me. So if I'm in space #4 and adjust something, I'll get no visual feedback. Not really a huge deal, but kind of annoying. Oh, also, it's not the same as OS X's volume feedback window, because you can't click on things below the Duet's feedback window. Also just slightly annoying, not a huge deal.

You could get a cheap headphone amp/distributor to get rid of that annoyance.
Behringer have cheap yet reasonable products out, so you could always get hold of a 4-way headphone amp from them, I think it's just over $100. It's got 2 balance in/out inputs each so you can connect your interface's direct out through that then into your monitors.
Obviously three other people could use headphones as well so it might make life easier for you when you're recording someone in the same room.
I used to have one of them and it did com in handy at times.

[JonasLondon]

Hi, jsut wanted to say I finally bought the Apogee Duet a few weeks back now and could not be happier. It's perfectly integrated into the Mac OS X / Logic System, sounds brilliant (I got a pair of M-Audio Studiophile Q40's with it too, for music production/monitoring alternative to the Bose Triport headphones which lack some lower end bass I think/"believe to hear a difference") and generally the Duet is a piece of Art.

Great product, highly recommended. Tip: Once in a while somebody sells one on eBay because they bought it blindly to use with ProTools, that's when you get a chance to get is $120 cheaper. Not that it wouldn't be worth full price, but for non-pro's like myself, it can be the deciding factor ;-)

[duetBREAKOUT]

well if your reading this you already know about the duet [hopefully you have one or are planning on getting one].
check this website out if so. www.duetbreakout.com

-dbo

[fvedf]

Sorry if my english is not very good.

I have a new Apogee Duet and I'm trying to use it. I would know if it is possible record with Apogee Duet, using Garage Band, two track contemporary, one for the guitar and one for the voice. If yes, how exactly?

Thank you very much!

See you.

Francesco

[MowingDevil]

I just bought myself a Duet as well, haven't used it yet because still waiting for my MBP. So far no complaints! :)

ps Francesco, yes you can record w/ Garage Band. Plug your guitar into the 1/4" input & the vocal mic into the XLR. If you're mic'ing an acoustic guitar or amp then run both mics into the 2 XLR inputs. Fairly straight forward.

[Luap]

I just bought myself a Duet as well, haven't used it yet because still waiting for my MBP. So far no complaints! :)



That doesn't make any sense :confused:

[MowingDevil]

That doesn't make any sense :confused:

No complaints because I haven't used it yet...I was being facetious. ;)

[fvedf]

Thank you!



I just bought myself a Duet as well, haven't used it yet because still waiting for my MBP. So far no complaints! :)

ps Francesco, yes you can record w/ Garage Band. Plug your guitar into the 1/4" input & the vocal mic into the XLR. If you're mic'ing an acoustic guitar or amp then run both mics into the 2 XLR inputs. Fairly straight forward.

[quasinormal]

To anybody that buys a Duet for its sound output quality, don't make the same mistake I did. The duet's headphone output will not drive high impedance headphones like Sennheiser's HD-600 + HD650 and AKG K701's to their full potential.

I bought the HD-600's thinking I could have a portable audiophile set up, but found a narrow soundstage and bass muddy. It was much better connected through my integrated Proton amp (similar to a NAD 3020) with tight definable bass and a wide soundstage. I could understand then why so many rave about how good the HD-600s are. I am getting a Chinese AC mains powered USB DAC/headphone amp in a couple of weeks to power them.

I now have the open Audio Technica ATH-AD1000 which to me sounds great, although I have a overwhelming desire to upgrade to the ATH-AD2000 or the closed ATH-W5000. Some people may claim that like the Etymotic ER-6i's they lack bass. The AD1000 even sounds OK connected to my iPod Nano.

[Cuyahoga]

Hmm...from what I've read, most people seem to think highly of the headphone amplifier in the Duet. To my ears, my HD-590 has never sounded better. That said, the 590 is easier to power than the 600, 650, etc.

The DAC is worth the price alone. Hell, the pre-amps are worth the price alone...if only I could sing. I primarily got it to replace my guitar amp (living in a condo now)--I've used cheaper USB interfaces this way before, but this made a huge difference. I actually feel like I'm playing a guitar again. I was considering the PreSonus Firebox ($250) and was a little intimidated by $500 pricetag. Listening to iTunes through the Duet DAC is worth every penny. After my first day with it--absolutely no regrets. A true piece of art.

[Mattww]

I have read several good reviews of the hardware but was wondering how the Duet has been with regard to software updates? Have you ever had to hold back with updates because of incompatibilities?

I have been looking at changing to an interface instead of recording direct via the line in on my Mac into Garageband and Logic and this should allow me to record direct or via microphones.

I can't find a product that doesn't need additional drivers (I always try to get thinks supported with any built-in generic OS X ones if possible) so I figured this being a recommended solution on the Logic page should be well supported? I always update to the latest OS X versions on release so was hoping to find a solution that will allow me to keep doing this.

The only other concern is long term FireWire support now Apple have shipped a new Mac without it. :confused:

[Luap]

I have read several good reviews of the hardware but was wondering how the Duet has been with regard to software updates? Have you ever had to hold back with updates because of incompatibilities?

The only other concern is long term FireWire support now Apple have shipped a new Mac without it. :confused:

The latest driver for the Duet came out in May, and works just fine :) I think it's more of a software update, IE Maestro, than a driver, as I believe the driver itself is part of OS X now? Either way, it's all good.

As for FireWire.. Thats 2 Macs without it now. The MacBook Air, and the latest MacBooks. And I expect if the Mini ever gets updated, that will lose it too.

[CMichaelr]

but the connection for the Bose is directly into the USB of the computer. Is there any alternative so that i can hook them up to the output of the Duet?
-CMichaelRubino
Thank you

[finetuned]

As for the overal Duet performance - I found the sound fantastic and the interface is really good to use. But I've also had the random harsh distortion thing and the only reliable solution that works for me is to close the app, log out and log back in. I had Kernel panics when switching sampling rates, but that has only happened once since the Mac Pro firmware update. However, the Kernel Panics still happen when switching users (though not always). Apogee customer service have admitted there is a problem and a fix is "on the way."

What's not clear is if the problem is OSX related, or Apogee related, or both.

Are you still experiencing those issues? I am. Random harsh screeching sound. I found that it usually occurs when some application calls for graphics rendering (like the Cover Flow mode in Finder, iWork things, playing High Definition video).
Funny thing is, if I don't do anything, it usually gets worse and worse and eventually the audio will just drop out completely, leaving me with no choice but to unplug and replug my Duet.
If I do act quickly, meaning, when the screeching starts, I quickly open a Finder window, select Cover Flow mode and click a bunch of folders so it rebuild that view each time, the sound will go back to normal. Very, very strange.

I'm on the latest version of Leopard (10.5.6), and I'm using the latest driver from Apogee. The problem occurs in every application, but video players (Quicktime, VLC) are most prone to the problem.

Any insight?

Oh, and the internal audio has zero issues, aboslutely no dropouts, clicks, pops whatsoever.

[Luap]

but the connection for the Bose is directly into the USB of the computer. Is there any alternative so that i can hook them up to the output of the Duet?
-CMichaelRubino
Thank you

Not really.. The Bose setup essentially has its own built in audio interface in this case. However, from what I have read, it does have a secondary input? So you can plug in iPods or other MP3 players etc etc.. So it's feasible that with the right cable you could take the output of a Duet and route it into the Bose's aux input.
But thats a bit of a chore, and using a Duet for these speakers is not likely to bring about any appreciable gains anyway.

PS, While im here. for anyone with a Duet that was not aware, there was a software update released last month. But like the May 08 update, I think it is again just a Maestro update, rather than a driver update, as the driver itself is included with recent versions of OS X now.

[gabaghoul]

Finetuned,

I have the same exact ugly distortion that occurs at some random point with my Duet and as you said, it's some combination of video players ie. VLC, iTunes being open and the only way to get rid of it is to restart. BTW, you don't even need to use the players, just have them open. And as you said, internal audio is unaffected.

Anyway, any updates on this issue?

[3FLryan]

Just experienced the ugly distortion the other day and had to restart to get rid of it. Sounded to me like it was BitCrushing the input signal, as if the BitCrusher Distortion Plug-In was active. I would put this plug-in on and off, to no effect.

[Luap]

The only time I ever had any distortion issue experience with the Duet, was when using Soundflower. Its hard to describe what happens, but its as if the duet loses its clock, and it loses sync/locks up the audio into a very very short repeating loop that ends up sounding like a digital buzz.
I put this down to a soundflower issue though, as its not done this when using any other software. Also, it was fixed not by restarting the whole computer. But simply reselecting the audio output again. And of course, by not using Soundflower where avoidable.

[finetuned]

The descriptions are really suggesting that many people are having the same problems. Which is somewhat reassuring but also a sittse scary because I thought I might be able to get rid of the problem by the time I buy a new Mac.

What kinds of Macs are you using, how old are they?

[Benguitar]

I use a Apogee Duet with my black MacBook, I haven't had many glitches with it so far. The only one I had was the day that I got it, it would"shut off" or "disconnect" from the computer, but that was easily fixed with the updated that Apogee released.

Just make sure you are running the latest software version and you're golden.

:cool::);)

[Mattww]

Just got one of these and with Garageband I can get the audio output to play through my speakers which are connected via the optical out on my Mac. With Logic Express however after selecting the duet in the preferences audio out is playing via the headphone port on the duet and I can't seem to change it - this great for recording but I'd like the option of switching monitoring to my speakers via optical out when just jamming over a backing track. Is this possible?

[MowingDevil]

I can't seem to get that going as well however I'd like to use the Mac's speakers for monitoring even though they're subpar. Sometimes while using the guitar tones in Logic to practice with I don't want to be wearing headphones but the audio seems to only want to come out of the Duet's output. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong but when switching preferences around the only sound I could get out the Mac was digital feedback.

[lumm]

Hi. Hope I'm in the right place....apologies if I'm not......I have just bought the Apogee Duet and cant seem to get any signal output. I have configured my G4 Macbook Pro to use the Duet, I have configured the Apogee control panel and followed all instructions in the Duet setup manual and I can SEE signal going in when I play guitar but cannot hear it through my headphones. When I play itunes however , it comes through crystal clear. (I have also made sure the output light on the Duet itself is lit) Any suggestions much welcome. Thanks.

[randburr]

Hi. Hope I'm in the right place....apologies if I'm not......I have just bought the Apogee Duet and cant seem to get any signal output. I have configured my G4 Macbook Pro to use the Duet, I have configured the Apogee control panel and followed all instructions in the Duet setup manual and I can SEE signal going in when I play guitar but cannot hear it through my headphones. When I play itunes however , it comes through crystal clear. (I have also made sure the output light on the Duet itself is lit) Any suggestions much welcome. Thanks.

did you ever get an answer or get it working?

[Sir Cecil]

I have had two bouts of the distortion/screeching mentioned on earlier posts. This is with the 17" Unibody MBP, listening via headphones.
The first time While playing a DVD movie, I restarted and that corrected the problem. The second time, while doing some light audio editing via Peak Pro, I removed the firewire cable from the Duet and then re-inserted it, and that cleared the noise.
Very disconcerting and hurtful to the ears. I hope Apogee is sorting this out.

UPDATE: This problem is manifesting itself quite often now. I notice it most often starts (though not always) when replaying audio for the first time immediately after launching applications like Peak 6, or Toast 10. Sometimes, after pulling out the firewire cable and reinserting it, the sound output reverts to the computer speakers, even though all preferences still indicate the Duet is selected. I have to reset preferences to another source and then back to Duet, to achieve Duet output again – and then it sometimes comes through the left channel only. Only a full restart overcomes all these problems... until it rears its head again. I am using fully updated OSX and Duet software, on the new 17" Macbook Pro. In the last two days alone, this has happened six times. I had no such problems with the Duet before OSX 10.5.6 or the new Macbook Pro.

[Luap]

Very disconcerting and hurtful to the ears. I hope Apogee is sorting this out.

Presumably you have reported it to them..

[Sir Cecil]

Presumably you have reported it to them..

Actually, no I haven't. But I did send them two e-mails with a question about the breakout cable and, over two months later, have never received a reply.

[Luap]

Actually, no I haven't. But I did send them two e-mails with a question about the breakout cable and, over two months later, have never received a reply.

I confess, I have never needed their tech support. But reports I have read suggest it's very good. Give them a call perhaps? Can't hurt..

[tomasnygren]

hello!

I have had similar problems described in this thread (and in http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/170787-apogee-duet-software-help.html) according to the click and pops with Duet

link to a sound example recorded by Bias Peak 6 and Apogee Duet (http://www.mediafire.com/?2zmhmmyzlnn)

This sound example shows a recorded sound from a Analog Tape player Studer B 67 MK2. I'm manually turning the tape in slow speed to detect if the clicks are on the tape or generated from the computer.. the clicks can not be on the tape since the pitch dosen't change

this sound example might be interesting since it was recorded but often I hear the click without a noticable effect on the raw sound recorded (henche only happening in the duet output signal). The example doesnt prove that duet is mailfunctioning since it can also be peak that creates this.


gear:
iMac 2.66 GHz intel core Duo, 2GB RAM - OSX 10.5.6
using Katsura's Pro Phase (ProPhase for Mac OS X - real time audio phase analyzer (http://www.katsurashareware.com/pgs/prophase.html)) and Bias Peak 6 but same clicks appears with quicktime or other software when the ckicking occurs

A restart clears off these problems

I haven't noticed the graphics rendering-effect but I will put some attention to it since im also using Katsura's Pro Phase application to register the channel separation on the Studer Analog tape recorder digitalizing from..

[jorgus]

1. Duet DO drop FW800 speed. Even if you have it last in a daisy chain - and even if you have a FW-hub. I've tried both and I have about 700 Mb/s to my WD FW800 disks (2 in a software RAID 0). When I plug in Duet - last in chain or via my hub - the speed drops more and more over time (30 minutes) and stays on 400 Mb/s. If I unplug Duet the speed goes up to 700 Mb/s again. This is the case with or without the driver from Apogee installed.
This is in Lion - I never tried this in Snow Leopard. I'm quite shure it's the same in Snow Leopard. So - the Duet DO slow down FW800 speed. Where in chain doesn't matter.

2. Duet needs a new driver for Lion. Only killing duetDaemon (=restarting it) makes it work. The popup comes and goes. It's not stabile.

[MowingDevil]

1. Duet DO drop FW800 speed. Even if you have it last in a daisy chain - and even if you have a FW-hub. I've tried both and I have about 700 Mb/s to my WD FW800 disks (2 in a software RAID 0). When I plug in Duet - last in chain or via my hub - the speed drops more and more over time (30 minutes) and stays on 400 Mb/s. If I unplug Duet the speed goes up to 700 Mb/s again. This is the case with or without the driver from Apogee installed.
This is in Lion - I never tried this in Snow Leopard. I'm quite shure it's the same in Snow Leopard. So - the Duet DO slow down FW800 speed. Where in chain doesn't matter.

2. Duet needs a new driver for Lion. Only killing duetDaemon (=restarting it) makes it work. The popup comes and goes. It's not stabile.

http://apogeedigital.com/products/apogee-mac-osx-lion-compatibility.php

[jorgus]

The speed drop of FW800 is not a Lion issue - it's in Snow Leopard too (tested now) and it's dropping in Lion Without any drivers from Apogge installed - it's dropping just plugging in the Duet.

http://apogeedigital.com/products/apogee-mac-osx-lion-compatibility.php