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sblasl
Sep 24, 2007, 04:11 PM
Per Appleinsider:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/09/24/apple_says_iphone_unlocking_may_cause_permanent_damage.html

"Apple said Monday that many of the unauthorized iPhone unlocking programs available on the Internet cause irreparable damage to the iPhone's software, which will likely result in the modified iPhone becoming permanently inoperable when a future Apple-supplied iPhone software update is installed.

The Cupertino-based company said it plans to release the next iPhone software update, containing many new features including the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, later this week.

"Apple strongly discourages users from installing unauthorized unlocking programs on their iPhones," the company wrote in a statement to the press. "Users who make unauthorized modifications to the software on their iPhone violate their iPhone software license agreement and void their warranty."

Apple added that the "permanent inability to use an iPhone due to installing unlocking software is not covered under the iPhone's warranty.""



MacRumors
Sep 24, 2007, 04:16 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has issued (http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=media&storyID=nWEN1219) a statement today that programs available for the iPhone to SIM unlock it could cause "irreparable damage to the device."
The maker of the Mac computer, the iPod digital music player and iTunes online store said that, once an Apple- supplied software update is installed on the iPhone, it "will likely result in the modified iPhone becoming permanently inoperable."

Apple plans to release the next iPhone software update later this week.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/24/apple-issues-warning-on-iphone-unlocking/)

Rooskibar03
Sep 24, 2007, 04:17 PM
You all knew it was coming..

Asar
Sep 24, 2007, 04:18 PM
thats crazy, can we get our updates now?

Adokimus
Sep 24, 2007, 04:18 PM
That stinks. Makes sense. But, stinks.

-Ado

PatMack
Sep 24, 2007, 04:18 PM
WHAT!!!!


noooooooooo

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 04:19 PM
WHAT!!!!


noooooooooo


Ya.It's called common sense.

tkidBOSTON
Sep 24, 2007, 04:19 PM
So the question that begs to be asked, is Apple doing this intentionally or is it just an inevitable part of the software update process??

Regardless, I guess this just means that anyone with a hacked iPhone won't be installing Apple updates.

daa709
Sep 24, 2007, 04:19 PM
makes sense, but apple will get backhanded in the EU in no time.

Bruce Patterson
Sep 24, 2007, 04:20 PM
Well if they'd release it in Canada, then we would have this problem. WHAT'S THE HOLDUP?

dukebound85
Sep 24, 2007, 04:21 PM
since when can you not do a restore of the software to get it back to normal?


sounds like a scare tactic to me

ghall
Sep 24, 2007, 04:22 PM
Well, at least they're telling us now. Well, at least I was a good sheep and went with AT&T. :p

Actually I was already on AT&T way before I got the iPhone so, it wasn't a problem.

Anyway, this is hardly surprising. So where is this update anyway?

arn
Sep 24, 2007, 04:22 PM
since when can you not do a restore of the software to get it back to normal?


A restore doesn't reverse the unlock. The unlock changes the modem firmware I believe... but regardless, it is restore resistant.

arn

skunk
Sep 24, 2007, 04:22 PM
So the question that begs to be asked, is Apple doing this intentionally or is it just an inevitable part of the software update process?You will never know. Inevitably or intentionally.

GodzPeepz
Sep 24, 2007, 04:22 PM
It sound's like a warning before another firmware update. :)

The only thing I have on my phone are 3rd party updates.:D

wPod
Sep 24, 2007, 04:22 PM
why is apple being so mean about this? what does it really matter? some extra revenue for them off of selling to at&t? thats just stupid. apple doest partner with any ISP for computers. "you can only use an apple computer with such and such ISP" come on now.

Porco
Sep 24, 2007, 04:22 PM
"irreparable damage to the device."

Irreparable damage to their yearly profits more like :p

But yeah, you hack/unlock/generally mess about with the iPhone in ways they don't like, you're stuffed if something goes pear-shaped and you'll not be wanting to go near any updates. I think any reasonable person would realise this.

Though I don't really believe any software issue could irreparably damage the hardware to be honest, anyone got any idea how that would be possible?

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 04:23 PM
since when can you not do a restore of the software to get it back to normal?


sounds like a scare tactic to me

When you do a restore you are restoring to a previous dmg stored on your computer.Apple will be updating the firmware also.The firmware resides on the iPhone.

sblasl
Sep 24, 2007, 04:23 PM
What was left out here from the announcement by Apple is the following:

"The Cupertino-based company said it plans to release the next iPhone software update, containing many new features including the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, later this week. "

SRSound
Sep 24, 2007, 04:23 PM
Is this exclusive to unlocking programs or does having any 3rd party app make a phone susceptible?

DMann
Sep 24, 2007, 04:23 PM
Ya.It's called common sense.

Just reset the iphone to original factory settings before installing the update. After that (or shortly thereafter) unlock the phone again (after updates are made to iFuntastic, et.al.) and reinstall your apps.

adom
Sep 24, 2007, 04:24 PM
haha good!

its like the xbox 360 updates all over again! manufacturers 1 - hackers 0! :D

jbuba
Sep 24, 2007, 04:24 PM
does this apply to all hacks? or just unlocking? It was my understanding that if i installed apptapp and other software that is associated with it, then all i had to do was perform a restore in iTunes and my phone would be back to factory settings?

arn
Sep 24, 2007, 04:24 PM
does this apply to all hacks? or just unlocking? It was my understanding that if i installed apptapp and other software that is associated with it, then all i had to do was perform a restore in iTunes and my phone would be back to factory settings?

right... seems this just refers to SIM Unlocking your iphone.

arn

ct-scan
Sep 24, 2007, 04:25 PM
I'm not sure if the problem is as extreme as they are saying, but I can see them fighting to keep their phones off of networks other than AT&T. So the "updated" phones will break all the SIM unlocking, bringing the phone to the updated, yet virgin state.

If all your upgrading is the software, I don't see what permanent damage can be done.

But, I USE AT&T, so...no worries really ;-)
(Except that I'll have to remod my software for all the 'cool' stuff after every upgrade...)

dukebound85
Sep 24, 2007, 04:26 PM
When you do a restore you are restoring to a previous dmg stored on your computer.Apple will be updating the firmware also.The firmware resides on the iPhone.

ok but couldnt you get the original firmware and change it back?

BigJohno
Sep 24, 2007, 04:27 PM
Hmm was about unlock my phone today. maybe Ill wait.

DMann
Sep 24, 2007, 04:28 PM
A restore doesn't reverse the unlock. The unlock changes the modem firmware I believe... but regardless, it is restore resistant.

arn

Someone will inevitably come up with a fix for this..... eventually.

twoodcc
Sep 24, 2007, 04:28 PM
thats crazy, can we get our updates now?

yeah, for real.

as long as apptapp doesn't do this, i'm fine with it. i still use at&t

bdj21ya
Sep 24, 2007, 04:29 PM
Makes sense. AT&T would have to have been morons not to demand some sort of clause that Apple will use their best efforts to prevent unlocking.

pilotError
Sep 24, 2007, 04:29 PM
I call Bull!

I seriously doubt you could brick your iPhone due to a sim unlock, especially a software unlock.

Now where's that soldering iron ;)

arn
Sep 24, 2007, 04:29 PM
To Clarify,

This warning refers to SIM Unlocking your iPhone so you can use another network (T-Mobile, European networks).

It doesn't appear to refer to installing 3rd party apps, ringtones etc...

arn

DMann
Sep 24, 2007, 04:30 PM
ok but couldnt you get the original firmware and change it back?

One would imagine so.

daa709
Sep 24, 2007, 04:31 PM
What if you're only sim unlocking to the same carrier it's meant to be on (o2 for uk, at&t for us etc)?

pyramid6
Sep 24, 2007, 04:31 PM
It is possible the next update changes things that make it incompatible with an unlocked phone. If the unlock messes with the modem firmware, you maybe out of luck. My guess is they just don't want to have to fix/support unlocked phones.

P6

cowm007
Sep 24, 2007, 04:32 PM
I didn't realize people will be updating their unlocked phones to the latest iPhone firmware when it comes out. It's not restore resistant if the modem firmware gets updated so I would assume best case scenario, you get an iPhone with the latest firmware but no unlock.

I seriously hope this means that the damage is because of "natural causes" and not some active code that bricks unlocked phones out of spite.

ogee
Sep 24, 2007, 04:33 PM
ok but couldnt you get the original firmware and change it back?

Not if Apple remove it from the server, so make sure you have a local copy of the restore software I guess......

Daremo
Sep 24, 2007, 04:33 PM
It's because you're NOT just changing the software. Unlocking changes the firmware on the modem. The potential danger has always been known, people shouldn't act so surprised.

vanmacguy
Sep 24, 2007, 04:33 PM
A restore doesn't reverse the unlock. The unlock changes the modem firmware I believe... but regardless, it is restore resistant.

arn

People here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=359884) are saying different though?

Cheers.

DMann
Sep 24, 2007, 04:33 PM
It is possible the next update changes things that make it incompatible with an unlocked phone. If the unlock messes with the modem firmware, you maybe out of luck. My guess is they just don't want to have to fix/support unlocked phones.

P6

Out of the loop now, are we?

sterno74
Sep 24, 2007, 04:36 PM
So the question that begs to be asked, is Apple doing this intentionally or is it just an inevitable part of the software update process??

Regardless, I guess this just means that anyone with a hacked iPhone won't be installing Apple updates.

The other possibility here is that it's neither, and that Apple is just spreading some FUD to discourage people from doing this. If Apple comes out and says you can't do it, people will ignore them and perhaps take offense. But if Apple comes out and says you'll mess up your phone, it prevents many from trying it and accomplishes apple's goal without the PR problems.

Daremo
Sep 24, 2007, 04:36 PM
People here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=359884) are saying different though?

Cheers.

That's hacking, not unlocking. It's a HUGE difference.

AJ Muni
Sep 24, 2007, 04:36 PM
Someone will inevitably come up with a fix for this..... eventually.

Exactly. As the days pass, the dev team and hackers are learning more and more about the interior of the iphone. I"m 100% confident they'll notice the differences in the updates, and inform us. If your smart enough, you obviously don't install these updates if you have an unlocked iphone. You just wait for gizmodo and/or engadget to do the dirty work. :p

ct-scan
Sep 24, 2007, 04:37 PM
ok but couldnt you get the original firmware and change it back?

Yes, if you already have the firmware files you can do that with the jailbreak procedure...and maybe with iFuntastic (not sure though).

Wayfarer
Sep 24, 2007, 04:38 PM
Good riddance, I say. :rolleyes:

TimmyDee
Sep 24, 2007, 04:39 PM
I have a feeling that there will be a hack to this new firmware -- it'll just take time. The hackers even have a way to get your modem's firmware back to its original state in case you tried unlocking and screwed it up the first time. So even if Apple's firmware update locks out the old modem firmware hacks, someone could just rehack the modem firmware back to factory specs and install the update. Sure the phone would relock to AT&T, but I would be willing to be that the new update would be hacked eventually.

Eric Lewis
Sep 24, 2007, 04:39 PM
in like 4 days after

there will be a new iUnlock app..that will work...so it doesnt matter

DMann
Sep 24, 2007, 04:39 PM
That's hacking, not unlocking. It's a HUGE difference.

Perhaps this similarity in terminology has many hackers in a tizzy. I don't believe that unshackling is synonymous with unlocking.

arn
Sep 24, 2007, 04:39 PM
People here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=359884) are saying different though?

Cheers.

That post refers to installing 3rd party apps. Not SIM Unlocking it.

3rd party apps, "hacking" the iPhone => Restore and you're back to normal
SIM Unlocking => Restore and you still have an unlocked iPhone

pixlnet
Sep 24, 2007, 04:40 PM
It's just a warning. They didn't say it will brick your phone....just that it could and they won't support it. I just hope the update brings more than iTS.

fr0
Sep 24, 2007, 04:40 PM
A restore doesn't reverse the unlock. The unlock changes the modem firmware I believe... but regardless, it is restore resistant.

arn

From what I understand the baseband is being flashed. Couldn't you theoretically use bbupdater to reflash the baseband with the unpatched firmware and be as good as new?

ChrisA
Sep 24, 2007, 04:41 PM
ok but couldnt you get the original firmware and change it back?

The Phone must contain a boot loader some place. Is it in flash memory or an EEPROM? I'd assume that latter and I'd asume the SIM stuff is there too. Perhaps the warning means the new bootloader will start checksumming the EEPROM and refuse to work if the checksum fails.

vanmacguy
Sep 24, 2007, 04:42 PM
That's hacking, not unlocking. It's a HUGE difference.

Sorry, I thought they were both talking about the same thing.

Good thing I didn't pop across the border last weekend and get mine. I'm in Canada and thought I had a plan! Guess not. Damn.

DMann
Sep 24, 2007, 04:43 PM
Exactly. As the days pass, the dev team and hackers are learning more and more about the interior of the iphone. I"m 100% confident they'll notice the differences in the updates, and inform us. If your smart enough, you obviously don't install these updates if you have an unlocked iphone. You just wait for gizmodo and/or engadget to do the dirty work. :p

A counterculture will rise forming a parallel world of equal magnitude. No doubt, fixes for reverting and/or upgrading functionality will be immediate.

jaw04005
Sep 24, 2007, 04:44 PM
ok but couldnt you get the original firmware and change it back?

The "firmware" Apple provides via iTunes is more like a software update. It may or may not contain actual firmware changes to iPhone components. The unlocking software currently available makes changes to the iPhone's internal modem firmware. Therefore, making the unlock restore proof. These are entirely different issues.

It would be like if you updated (flashed) the firmware of your graphics card. Reinstalling Mac OS would not restore your graphic card's firmware to its original state.

eastview
Sep 24, 2007, 04:45 PM
Its going to get interesting later this week when the update comes out to see if apple is going to brick all the hacked iphones. Good luck to all you who hacked them, but i think i'll play it safe and stickl with AT and T

Mydel
Sep 24, 2007, 04:45 PM
You can get back the iPhone to "virgin" state. just need to flash the baseband and than restore. I did it once. But its not that easy. You need to extract files from original software and than type in terminal, and trust me typing terminal on iphone keybord aint fun:o
Than the unlock is gone and phone requires activation from the scratch

iMikeT
Sep 24, 2007, 04:46 PM
Consider youselves warned.

Now, don't go crying back to Apple then again on forums like this because your iPhone has been bricked because you choose to hack it.:rolleyes:

bluedevil97
Sep 24, 2007, 04:46 PM
This type of advance warning on the issue is interesting - it's also a little bit of a wink to all the people who have unlocked their phones to not apply the update if you don't want a brick. Apple may have realized that a lot have unlocked and wanted to avoid dealing with them in droves - most of them will get this info and not apply to update until a hack that solves it comes out. Less people in the store/online/phone complaining of dead phones.

one1
Sep 24, 2007, 04:46 PM
Apple says what they need to say to keep at&t happy.

Software update? tell me one thing that apple can add that has not already been hacked or WILL be hacked within say.... a months time (which is forever in hacking the iphone, things move at the speed of light).

Apple has seen hackers put out every program that they planned on releasing for the phone through time to keep people hanging on and following apples release line up so they'd stay excited about it.

Apple gave us nothing, and the hacks gave us everything. Apple's next update could not possibly include anything even remotely close to what the hackers have done so far, short of an itunes store which simply generates more money for apple - not really in the users common interest. We have Itunes, we have a sync cable, we have the option to not update.

Apple's statement is pure propaganda to keep at&t happy and try to discourage users from advancing their units past apples releases.

Willis
Sep 24, 2007, 04:47 PM
geez... if you didnt like the offer that was going.. dont get the iPhone.

why buy it then unlock/hack it... and then complain when Apple release updates to protect their best interests. End of the day, they want to make money.

quigleybc
Sep 24, 2007, 04:48 PM
iHate the iPhone.

F that thing......

sick of it...sick of how iCan't get one, and now I can't even unlock one...

weak...

Stokkes
Sep 24, 2007, 04:48 PM
Unlocking your iPhone is not illegal. In fact, I believe US Law allows anyone to unlock their phones should they wish (hence why most carriers will provide an unlock code).

If apple is bricking phones because they're unlocked (which is legal), I smell a class action lawsuit a-brewing.

Fwink!
Sep 24, 2007, 04:49 PM
here's the new iPhone theme song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MSPCrZ0FMs

:)

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 04:49 PM
This type of advance warning on the issue is interesting - it's also a little bit of a wink to all the people who have unlocked their phones to not apply the update if you don't want a brick. Apple may have realized that a lot have unlocked and wanted to avoid dealing with them in droves - most of them will get this info and not apply to update until a hack that solves it comes out. Less people in the store/online/phone complaining of dead phones.

Actually it's a warning that Apple is going to update the modem firmware significantly and they won't feel obliged to fix it for you if you've hacked it.

Something I agree with.

BWhaler
Sep 24, 2007, 04:50 PM
Well, I guess this is in line with the "deal" we all knew when we signed-up for when purchasing the iPhone: two year contract with AT&T, scumbags that they are...

The news does suck of course. I'd love to use the iPhone when traveling abroad but will not pay AT&T's criminal roaming charges. (I am ok--not happy, but ok--with using AT&T here in the US.)

I guess the bigger issue nowadays is the fundamental lack of competition in too many industries. Travel, banking, communications, health, etc. you name it. All of the options suck and none of the companies feel compelled to serve their customers well.

Well, I guess I am happy that I didn't try unlocking my iPhone. And the fact that the update is coming this week is great news. Should be tons of fun to see what Apple did...

Stokkes
Sep 24, 2007, 04:50 PM
Unlocking your iPhone is not illegal. In fact, I believe US Law allows anyone to unlock their phones should they wish (hence why most carriers will provide an unlock code).

If apple is bricking phones because they're unlocked (which is legal), I smell a class action lawsuit a-brewing.

Edit:

Here's the link:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061124-8280.html
5) cell phone firmware that ties a phone to a specific wireless network;

Yep, it's in the DMCA.

Edit #2:
I just wanted to add that the apple fanboy-ism that some people spewing out here is rather disgusting.

DMann
Sep 24, 2007, 04:50 PM
You can get back the iPhone to "virgin" state. just need to flash the baseband and than restore. I did it once. But its not that easy. You need to extract files from original software and than type in terminal, and trust me typing terminal on iphone keybord aint fun:o
Than the unlock is gone and phone requires activation from the scratch

would be extremely welcome!

jersey
Sep 24, 2007, 04:51 PM
/sits back and waits for the "omg teh haxxor unlock bricked mai phone" floodgates to open.../

I want to unlock mine just a bad as anyone else, especially since I'm going out of the country in a couple months ......... but I think I'll wait and see how all of this unfolds.

sanford
Sep 24, 2007, 04:51 PM
thats crazy, can we get our updates now?

I think update tomorrow.

And I think I might have been right after all. Unlocks were holding up the update. People told me no because it was too easy to reverse the unlocks and just relock. But they were figuring out a way to brick them which probably took more time.

Be nice if they released a safe relock restore tonight for people who will go legit. But then again bricking unlocked updaters will fairly kill future unlocking.

I know unlockers will be livid, but give Apple this: at least they warned you. You're feature frozen as of tomorrow but at least the thing will still work. They could have just bricked you and laughed.

Mydel
Sep 24, 2007, 04:53 PM
would be extremely welcome!

Yeah, I would love that too. But writing one is waaay betond me. Im MD not IT :p

kresh
Sep 24, 2007, 04:53 PM
Surely Apple is obligated with their contract with AT&T to foil attempts to use the iPhone on other networks, and I assume that they must make a good faith attempt to stop it. I imagine it's similar to Apple's obligation to record labels to repair FairPlay when it's breeched.

AJ Muni
Sep 24, 2007, 04:54 PM
Consider youselves warned.

Now, don't go crying back to Apple then again on forums like this because your iPhone has been bricked because you choose to hack it.:rolleyes:

Freakin hater. Go pay $2 for your ringtone.

PDE
Sep 24, 2007, 04:54 PM
I think update tomorrow.

And I think I might have been right after all. Unlocks were holding up the update. People told me no because it was too easy to reverse the unlocks and just relock. But they were figuring out a way to brick them which probably took more time.

Be nice if they released a safe relock restore tonight for people who will go legit. But then again bricking unlocked updaters will fairly kill future unlocking.

I know unlockers will be livid, but give Apple this: at least they warned you. You're feature frozen as of tomorrow but at least the thing will still work. They could have just bricked you and laughed.

Who is this person and why does he get a kick out of this?

Eric Lewis
Sep 24, 2007, 04:55 PM
in like 4 days after

there will be a new iUnlock app..that will work...so it doesnt matter

so true

hackers will win apple!

Mydel
Sep 24, 2007, 04:56 PM
I think update tomorrow.

Be nice if they released a safe relock restore tonight for people who will go legit. But then again bricking unlocked updaters will fairly kill future unlocking.

I know unlockers will be livid, but give Apple this: at least they warned you. You're feature frozen as of tomorrow but at least the thing will still work. They could have just bricked you and laughed.

Hahaha Legit?? Why my unlocked phone is not legit to you?? I payed the same money as you did. And trust me its not gonna change anything. Even if some phones will die after that update its not gonna stop neither me nor anyone I know from unlocking their phones.

shakastange
Sep 24, 2007, 04:57 PM
I don't see the big issue. Every unlocking guide I have seen clearly states that future iPhone updates MAY disable the unlocks. Everyone who unlocked their phone knew what they were getting into. As long as you buy an iPhone before the new updates come along you can still unlock.

There is not way Apple can force you to update the firmware on your phone without getting into some serious lawsuits. I still run iTunes 7.0.3. Yes I get the messages to update but I don't care to. Same issue with the phone. If you phone is unlocked DO NOT update. You may miss out on some features but you will also miss out on having the ability to select whichever carrier you wish.

jersey
Sep 24, 2007, 04:57 PM
Freakin hater. Go pay $2 for your ringtone.

Ok......adding a ringtone for free isnt going to brick your phone when updates arrive (yes, they'll probably disappear).

We're talking baseband being flashed.


Catch up.

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 04:58 PM
Hahaha Legit?? Why my unlocked phone is not legit to you?? I payed the same money as you did. And trust me its not gonna change anything. Even if some phones will die after that update its not gonna stop neither me nor anyone I know from unlocking their phones.

Famous last words..

I'm gonna sit back and watch you cry tomorrow or Wednesday because your iPhone is history.;)

sblasl
Sep 24, 2007, 04:58 PM
I think there is going to be a rude awakening in the next few days. As was stated by Apple, "...containing many new features...". They are also going to lock the iPhone up pretty tight, as tight as the iPod touch if not tighter which to my knowledge the folks attempting to hack/unlock the iPod touch had more or less hit a brick wall and have not been able to really get anywhere.

The "new features" are going to be significant and "must haves" by many but in turn your iPhone is going to be under Apple's control for awhile, a good long while this time.

Superdrive
Sep 24, 2007, 04:59 PM
Let's hope that 1.1 will be worth the wait. I really believe Apple has some good updates in store for us.

un1ty
Sep 24, 2007, 04:59 PM
They've updated (http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=cn&symbol=AAPL.O&storyid=191309+24-Sep-2007+RTRS&WTmodLoc=InvArt-R4-FactBox-8&type=qcna) the article.

"We are not doing anything proactively to disable iPhones that have been hacked or unlocked," Phil Schiller, Apple's head of worldwide product marking told Reuters

Sounds to me like they are going to use the excuse that they were fixing a vulnerability and patch the unlocking hack.

LizKat
Sep 24, 2007, 05:00 PM
It's just a warning. They didn't say it will brick your phone....just that it could and they won't support it. I just hope the update brings more than iTS.

I'm hoping for the option of manual music sync. I dislike having to work only through checking off playlists on the host computer. I like to drag and drop individual tracks or cherry-picked pieces of an album or an artist's works regardless of album. And to mix new playlists on the iPod (iPhone) while it's still docked. Be able to sort, split-browse, etc. what's on there, which one can't do now on iPhone; it behaves pretty much like Shuffles.

DMann
Sep 24, 2007, 05:00 PM
I think update tomorrow.

And I think I might have been right after all. Unlocks were holding up the update. People told me no because it was too easy to reverse the unlocks and just relock. But they were figuring out a way to brick them which probably took more time.

Be nice if they released a safe relock restore tonight for people who will go legit. But then again bricking unlocked updaters will fairly kill future unlocking.

I know unlockers will be livid, but give Apple this: at least they warned you. You're feature frozen as of tomorrow but at least the thing will still work. They could have just bricked you and laughed.

A fix is imminent, if even deemed necessary. Apple is pretty well aware of the 230,000+ unlocked phones out there.... you think a mere warning will prevent the massive deluge of tech support necessary to deal with phone failures after an install? Not likely.

shakastange
Sep 24, 2007, 05:00 PM
Famous last words..

I'm gonna sit back and watch you cry tomorrow or Wednesday because your iPhone is history.;)

Really! I don't see how unless he updates his phone.

Mydel
Sep 24, 2007, 05:00 PM
Famous last words..

I'm gonna sit back and watch you cry tomorrow or Wednesday because your iPhone is history.;)

Trust me Imnot gonna cry. I know the ramifications. Worst case scenario..willl get a new one

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 05:02 PM
They've updated (http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=cn&symbol=AAPL.O&storyid=191309+24-Sep-2007+RTRS&WTmodLoc=InvArt-R4-FactBox-8&type=qcna) the article.

"We are not doing anything proactively to disable iPhones that have been hacked or unlocked," Phil Schiller, Apple's head of worldwide product marking told Reuters

Sounds to me like they are going to use the excuse that they were fixing a vulnerability and patch the unlocking hack.

They ARE fixing something.;)

Really! I don't see how unless he updates his phone.

He will want to.

Plutonius
Sep 24, 2007, 05:03 PM
The only reason the statement was released by Apple was to cover themselves. I'm sure that in testing the upcoming patch, Apple discovered at least some of the iPhone hack methods were incompatable with the patch causing the phones to be unuseable.

Stokkes
Sep 24, 2007, 05:03 PM
They've updated (http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=cn&symbol=AAPL.O&storyid=191309+24-Sep-2007+RTRS&WTmodLoc=InvArt-R4-FactBox-8&type=qcna) the article.

"We are not doing anything proactively to disable iPhones that have been hacked or unlocked," Phil Schiller, Apple's head of worldwide product marking told Reuters

Sounds to me like they are going to use the excuse that they were fixing a vulnerability and patch the unlocking hack.

It's a darn good thing they updated the article. The previous statement would have easily been grounds for a class action lawsuit.

You can legally unlock your phone and if Apple came swooping in and bricked all those phones, well ****, throw my name into the hat for that lawsuit!

Mydel
Sep 24, 2007, 05:03 PM
The "new features" are going to be significant and "must haves" by many but in turn your iPhone is going to be under Apple's control for awhile, a good long while this time.

And what feature would that be?? iTMS?? Or keyboard update?? I couldn't care less about iTMS and modified my keyboard already together wit ability to turn off that stupid autocorrection feature. Turning off EDGE?? Why if I just switch SIMs?:D

daneoni
Sep 24, 2007, 05:03 PM
Not really surprised...they're a business with revenue to protect and contractual obligations to fulfill. Still think they should have done the SIM-Free route and would gladly have traded Visual Voicemail for that. Shame though....no iPhone for me then, which is weird coming from an avid fan BUT i just cannot bring myself to sign up to those O2 tariffs AND plunk down an additional 269 smackers only to get 200 texts/200 mins. Nah.

Was considering getting an unlock but i'll pass now (even though i know hackers will ultimately prevail) as i don't have time for a cat and mouse game and am not getting an iPod touch either....pointless really.

BWhaler
Sep 24, 2007, 05:04 PM
Let's hope that 1.1 will be worth the wait. I really believe Apple has some good updates in store for us.

I think it's going to be.

I have heard there are three new apps coming your way...

(Didn't the right align of the new iTunes store on the home page seem strange to you?)

Virgil-TB2
Sep 24, 2007, 05:05 PM
So the question that begs to be asked, is Apple doing this intentionally or is it just an inevitable part of the software update process??...It's more likely that they tested the coming update on a hacked phone and found out that it breaks it.

gwangung
Sep 24, 2007, 05:05 PM
They've updated (http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=cn&symbol=AAPL.O&storyid=191309+24-Sep-2007+RTRS&WTmodLoc=InvArt-R4-FactBox-8&type=qcna) the article.

"We are not doing anything proactively to disable iPhones that have been hacked or unlocked," Phil Schiller, Apple's head of worldwide product marking told Reuters

Sounds to me like they are going to use the excuse that they were fixing a vulnerability and patch the unlocking hack.

Meh.

More likely, they're doing what they damn feel like to update, and if it breaks something, too bad (and it's likely to break something if it messes with the firmware).

It's certainly cheaper and quicker to update a system when you don't have to worry about knocking out 3rd party updates....

shakastange
Sep 24, 2007, 05:06 PM
They ARE fixing something.;)



He will want to.

An you really think Apple will be able to lock out the hackers permanently? I have full confidence they will be able to crack into Apple's updates. No company has been able to beat the hackers. And I doubt Apple will be the first.

elgruga
Sep 24, 2007, 05:09 PM
I live in Canada (thats the permafrosty place just north of the US...).

I like the iPhone.
I know that its LEGAL to unlock your cell phone.
I bought an iPhone - legally from Apple in the US (Washington State, if you must know)
I unlocked my iPhone myself using the excellent instructions on modmyiphone.com.
Rogers (my cell provider) allow me to use the iPhone - I checked.
I am happy because iPhone is really ********** good and saves me time and hassle.

So whats the problem? I WONT be downloading any upgrades until the iphonedev folks OK it.

I dont CARE about new features because the iPhone, as it stands, has ALL that I need or want.

If Apple want to 'brick' my iPhone, they need me to download files to do that.

I am stupid, but not quite that stupid......

I thnk this is Apple's way of (a) keeping everything cool with AT&T and (b) warning those who have unlocked to NOT download the new changes until iphonedev have cracked it again.

Thankyou, Apple for the timely and polite warning.

Enough of the delight in the notion of destroying property on these forums.
Very nasty to see that - not nice to wish a damaged iPhone on a guy or gal who paid good, hard-earned cash for it.....



!

Virgil-TB2
Sep 24, 2007, 05:12 PM
Hahaha Legit?? Why my unlocked phone is not legit to you?? I payed the same money as you did. And trust me its not gonna change anything. Even if some phones will die after that update its not gonna stop neither me nor anyone I know from unlocking their phones.It seems like your living in some kind of adventure story where the lone courageous hackers are out to "free the iPhone" or whatever but this noble war you imagine between the "good guys" and the "bad guys" just doesn't exist. I see very little evidence that Apple even cares about you or efforts to unlock the iPhone.

It might make a nice RPG, but reality it ain't. :)

nato64
Sep 24, 2007, 05:12 PM
A counterculture will rise forming a parallel world of equal magnitude. No doubt, fixes for reverting and/or upgrading functionality will be immediate.

I wouldn't be so optimistic. They haven't cracked the iPod touch yet and it seems that Apple has changed quite a bit in how their mobile OS X works...

HTrig
Sep 24, 2007, 05:12 PM
well this is unwelcome. i and many others i know had been planning to do this pretty soon. still before we start the fanboy ranting OR badmouthing apple we really have to get more information.

its all very well to speculate but without seeing the release, ideas on apples motives are just that. for now the best thing seems, to me at least, to just wait and if you really want to get an unlocked iphone weigh this in mind. (i know i will)

still once we get a look at what the update actually does, if it really does seem malicious im :mad:

PDE
Sep 24, 2007, 05:13 PM
I live in Canada (thats the permafrosty place just north of the US...).

I like the iPhone.
I know that its LEGAL to unlock your cell phone.
I bought an iPhone - legally from Apple in the US (Washington State, if you must know)
I unlocked my iPhone myself using the excellent instructions on modmyiphone.com.
Rogers (my cell provider) allow me to use the iPhone - I checked.
I am happy because iPhone is really ********** good and saves me time and hassle.

So whats the problem? I WONT be downloading any upgrades until the iphonedev folks OK it.

I dont CARE about new features because the iPhone, as it stands, has ALL that I need or want.

If Apple want to 'brick' my iPhone, they need me to download files to do that.

I am stupid, but not quite that stupid......

I thnk this is Apple's way of (a) keeping everything cool with AT&T and (b) warning those who have unlocked to NOT download the new changes until iphonedev have cracked it again.

Thankyou, Apple for the timely and polite warning.

Enough of the delight in the notion of destroying property on these forums.
Very nasty to see that - not nice to wish a damaged iPhone on a guy or gal who paid good, hard-earned cash for it.....



!

Thanks for that. I feel the same way and I totally agree that it's nasty for anybody to wish unlockers ill.

Virgil-TB2
Sep 24, 2007, 05:13 PM
A fix is imminent, if even deemed necessary. Apple is pretty well aware of the 230,000+ unlocked phones out there.... you think a mere warning will prevent the massive deluge of tech support necessary to deal with phone failures after an install? Not likely.This is either FUD of your own, a joke, or you've been taking the wrong drugs.

carfac
Sep 24, 2007, 05:14 PM
Oh, no. I am so scared! :cool:

Sounds to me like Apple is gonna be putting something in 1.1.1 to brick all the unlockers.... and brick with a vengeance. Does not seem like a good idea to me. If they do that, and they thought the backlash after a 200 dollar price drop was bad...

jersey
Sep 24, 2007, 05:15 PM
Heres the guide on how to relock your iPhone. (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/09/24/how-to-relock-your-iphone-before-the-firmware-update/)

/oh noes dont brakes mai phonez ... i thwarted ur locks ... dont dews it backs/

ma2ha3
Sep 24, 2007, 05:15 PM
i never gotta to install any new iphone software

anyway those free third party software seem better than iphone software.

and it will grow.

zap2
Sep 24, 2007, 05:18 PM
Freakin hater. Go pay $2 for your ringtone.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Or .99 cents...I mean any song I want as a ringtone, I also want as a song....better then 2.49 for just the ringtone

mobilehavoc
Sep 24, 2007, 05:20 PM
What people don't realize is that once they release the new software anytime you go to do a Restore (for whatever reason) it will restore to the NEW firmware...this is unless you go and hack iTunes to restore to an old one...which I heard can be done but is a pain in the ass.

hotsauce
Sep 24, 2007, 05:20 PM
This is Great News, if this is a legitimate warning on Apple's part, not a scare tactic. It just goes to show that it's going to be an extensive update. Bring it on!!!

peestandingup
Sep 24, 2007, 05:21 PM
If they intentionally break unlocked iPhones, I'm seriously done with Apple after 8 years of being a Mac user. Thats just not cool.

FatMax
Sep 24, 2007, 05:21 PM
... it seems that Apple has changed quite a bit in how their mobile OS X works...

Oh, will we be seeing Mobile OSX leopard anytime soon? :p

elgruga
Sep 24, 2007, 05:21 PM
Heres the quote from the newest list of exemptions to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA)


"The purpose of the software lock appears to be limited to restricting the owner’s use of the mobile handset to support a business model, rather than to protect access to a copyrighted work itself."

We DONT have to support Apple's or AT&T's business plan, and if they insist that unlocking is wrong, a class-action lawsuit is on the cards, folks.

Apple will tread carefully - note the modified iPhone statement already. Expect more on this in the coming weeks.....

Perhaps, in view of the DCMA, the compromise will be unlocking of the SIM, but you lose the ability to change the OSX stuff.....?

I could live with that - no updates for unlockers until you have a plan, but SIM is unlocked.

hotsauce
Sep 24, 2007, 05:21 PM
If they intentionally break unlocked iPhones, I'm seriously done with Apple after 8 years of being a Mac user. Thats just not cool.

Bye. Don't let the door...

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 05:23 PM
It's because you're NOT just changing the software. Unlocking changes the firmware on the modem. The potential danger has always been known, people shouldn't act so surprised.
It's because the majority of people that do these hacks are the end users who have no idea what processes are involved in it. They didn't discover it, or write it, or dig through the iphone to figure it out. They do a few clicks and don't think about what it's actually doing. Just the end result. These are the people that coincidentally also bitch and whine about everything.

shawnce
Sep 24, 2007, 05:23 PM
If they intentionally break unlocked iPhones, I'm seriously done with Apple after 8 years of being a Mac user. Thats just not cool. You assume this is intentional...

SiliconAddict
Sep 24, 2007, 05:23 PM
I'm starting to REALLY hate this company. Even Microsoft doesn't pull this crap. the only thing close to that is with the 360 and even then that's generally to pirate games.

Apple is the new Microsoft. Thankfully it will be a cold day in hell when I buy an iPhone in its current state.

booksacool1
Sep 24, 2007, 05:24 PM
If they intentionally break unlocked iPhones, I'm seriously done with Apple after 8 years of being a Mac user. Thats just not cool.

I agree. All they are doing is trying to cover their ass for when they release the 'unlocked iphone' bricker/update.

If they dare... i'm out.

anfield11
Sep 24, 2007, 05:24 PM
Apple says what they need to say to keep at&t happy.

Software update? tell me one thing that apple can add that has not already been hacked or WILL be hacked within say.... a months time (which is forever in hacking the iphone, things move at the speed of light).

Apple has seen hackers put out every program that they planned on releasing for the phone through time to keep people hanging on and following apples release line up so they'd stay excited about it.

Apple gave us nothing, and the hacks gave us everything. Apple's next update could not possibly include anything even remotely close to what the hackers have done so far, short of an itunes store which simply generates more money for apple - not really in the users common interest. We have Itunes, we have a sync cable, we have the option to not update.

Apple's statement is pure propaganda to keep at&t happy and try to discourage users from advancing their units past apples releases.


Okay, if the new firmware is released can I still sync with iTunes, but not do a software [firmware update] or is that done automatically at a sync?

aethelbert
Sep 24, 2007, 05:26 PM
Okay, if the new firmware is released can I still sync with iTunes, but not do a software [firmware update] or is that done automatically at a sync?
It you don't let iTunes connect to the internet, it shouldn't be an issue.

LizKat
Sep 24, 2007, 05:28 PM
It's a darn good thing they updated the article. The previous statement would have easily been grounds for a class action lawsuit.

You can legally unlock your phone and if Apple came swooping in and bricked all those phones, well ****, throw my name into the hat for that lawsuit!

If what you did to your iPhone results in an iPhone unready to receive the update, including any firmware adjustments, they will probably just not apply the update when you connect iPhone to computer. That would seem the prudent program for them to follow, and it hardly seems like grounds for a lawsuit. They do have an obligation to follow their contract with ATT and try to protect it from third party breach.

All they're doing is saying hey, here's the requirement for updating your iPhone. What's different in that, from any zillion other updates one has tried to apply to a computer? Nothing. The update program pokes around and announces "This update cannot be applied to this computer" and you click ok because that's all there is to click on and then you investigate other options, like ALTERING your setup to meet their requirements for the update you wanted to apply.

appleguy
Sep 24, 2007, 05:28 PM
Does this apply to software hacks to use other sims
or just the sim hacks eg TURBOSIM?

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 05:29 PM
I agree. All they are doing is trying to cover their ass for when they release the 'unlocked iphone' bricker/update.

If they dare... i'm out.

Yeh sure you are. You and all of the rest of the whiners will be back here the day after to cry about it.

sthpark7791
Sep 24, 2007, 05:29 PM
I plan to bypass activation once I get my iPhone since I'll mainly use it for its WiFi features and NOT unlocking it (will eventually use att prepaid). This update shouldnt be a problem for me, correct?

parrotheadmjb
Sep 24, 2007, 05:29 PM
Unlocking your iPhone is not illegal. In fact, I believe US Law allows anyone to unlock their phones should they wish (hence why most carriers will provide an unlock code).

If apple is bricking phones because they're unlocked (which is legal), I smell a class action lawsuit a-brewing.

i have never seen an unlock code come out of verizon or alltel...

DeathChill
Sep 24, 2007, 05:31 PM
I plan to bypass activation once I get my iPhone since I'll mainly use it for its WiFi features and NOT unlocking it (will eventually use att prepaid). This update shouldnt be a problem for me, correct?

You'll have to wait and see how much has changed as they may make it so that activating and jailbreaking are different.

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 05:32 PM
I plan to bypass activation once I get my iPhone since I'll mainly use it for its WiFi features and NOT unlocking it (will eventually use att prepaid). This update shouldnt be a problem for me, correct?


Why don't you just get a Touch ?

mrzeve
Sep 24, 2007, 05:32 PM
Well, I guess I will just wait until tomorrow to buy my iPhone.

vanmacguy
Sep 24, 2007, 05:32 PM
The only reason the statement was released by Apple was to cover themselves. I'm sure that in testing the upcoming patch, Apple discovered at least some of the iPhone hack methods were incompatable with the patch causing the phones to be unuseable.

That's what it reads like to me (from the article):

There are a number of unlocking software programs on the Internet, and, at least two of them, iUnlock and Anysim, can cause the iPhone to stop working once its software is updated, Schiller said.

Cheers.

Skystar
Sep 24, 2007, 05:33 PM
I plan to bypass activation once I get my iPhone since I'll mainly use it for its WiFi features and NOT unlocking it (will eventually use att prepaid). This update shouldnt be a problem for me, correct?

It shouldnt be a problem, but apple will probably make it a PITA to bypass activation as well.

PDE
Sep 24, 2007, 05:34 PM
If what you did to your iPhone results in an iPhone unready to receive the update, including any firmware adjustments, they will probably just not apply the update when you connect iPhone to computer. That would seem the prudent program for them to follow, and it hardly seems like grounds for a lawsuit. They do have an obligation to follow their contract with ATT and try to protect it from third party breach.

All they're doing is saying hey, here's the requirement for updating your iPhone. What's different in that, from any zillion other updates one has tried to apply to a computer? Nothing. The update program pokes around and announces "This update cannot be applied to this computer" and you click ok because that's all there is to click on and then you investigate other options, like ALTERING your setup to meet their requirements for the update you wanted to apply.

Exactly: a message saying that the update cannot be completed because of unauthorised modifications - that's enough. No need to brick anything.

compuguy1088
Sep 24, 2007, 05:34 PM
The kicker in the press release was this statement by apple:

Users who make unauthorized modifications to the software on their iPhone violate their iPhone software license agreement and void their warranty. The permanent inability to use an iPhone due to installing unlocking software is not covered under the iPhone's warranty.

Which interpreted in a way means that unlocking and 3rd party apps will void the warranty. Luckally there is a way to reverse the unlock...

sthpark7791
Sep 24, 2007, 05:36 PM
Why don't you just get a Touch ?

You'll have to wait and see how much has changed as they may make it so that activating and jailbreaking are different.

- I was thinking about it but I really like the apps available for the iPhone. Plus, it was either the 4GB iPhone or 8GB touch.

- Alright. I'll just bypass it when I get it and not update until further news. thanks

willybNL
Sep 24, 2007, 05:36 PM
Next step for Apple to take is to program the next iPhone update in INTERCAL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INTERCAL_programming_language)...

Ow well... there goes my iPhone this year (no iPhone in the Kingdom of the Netherlands still :P).

Leemo
Sep 24, 2007, 05:38 PM
Jesus - stop the whining.

It's Apple's product, if they want to protect their revenue stream with AT&T (and of course the European networks in the coming months) then they're quite within their rights to do so. You bought an iPhone knowing what the basic conditions were. No-one forced you to buy the damn thing.

It's Apple's software you're messing with, if they want to go and change the section of code which is currently letting you unlock the phone then they can do so - there's no legal recourse to this as you're clearly breaking the software terms of use.

You unlock, you take that chance. Please stop moaning about it - know the implications or leave the hacks well alone.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't unlock their phones, that's clearly their choice - but throwing a hissy fit because Apple are plugging these 'holes' is ridiculous.

Please grow up and grow some bollocks. Apple are a business, a company. They're not there to pander to your wishes and desires, as much as people on here seem to expect them to.

'New Microsoft' my arse.

-Leemo

Virgil-TB2
Sep 24, 2007, 05:39 PM
No offense, and not to single this post out, but I can't believe the stupidity of someone who unlocks their iPhone. It just takes a bad deal with AT&T and makes it worse. There is no speed increase, and no "deal" to be had on charges. It will cost a great deal more to use on any other network even if it works.

The only person who has any valid, sensible reason to unlock their iPhone is someone who lives in a country that doesn't even have the iPhone yet but wants one. If you want an iPhone that bad, that you are willing to pay 600 bucks for and then possibly brick it, well then your what used to be called a "dilettante" and you deserve whatever you get.

I can't figure out why anybody even cares about this or feels bad for people who have done it. It makes no sense to do it for the most part, and those that *can* do it are basically rich, 1st world consumers that no one should feel sorry for at all.

Worst of all are those that think they have a "right" to force Apple to support their hacks. Last I checked, if I design a product, you can refuse to buy it, but you have no right to tell me how I should design it.

bunch of whiny babies if you ask me. :)

stadidas
Sep 24, 2007, 05:39 PM
iTunes asks you if you want to download any new software updates. All you have to do is hit no and you can keep restoring to the old software until a hack for the new one comes out. Simple.

maestrokev
Sep 24, 2007, 05:40 PM
I'm surprised at all the complaining about this. Apple likes tight control over their products - remember they're the people who make the hardware and the OS and don't license out?

The iPhone is also a 1st generation product and you should expect updates and changes. There's no law that says you have to update with any new Apple supplied features, but there's also no law that says Apple needs to walk on eggshells around any hacks out there.

Good grief! It's not like Apple didn't warn you that you can only get the iPhone in certain countries and certain carriers. It's a business people, not a charity!

peestandingup
Sep 24, 2007, 05:40 PM
You assume this is intentional...
No, I said "IF they intentionally" break people's iPhones, then I'm gone. We may never know, but with these kind of statements, it seems that they will DEF do it, so in that regard, its intentional because they are warning us as they are planning on it.

I dont wanna be part of a company that does these sorta things to its customers. Its just down right dirty. If they dont wanna support it, thats fine. But dont break people's equipment for Pete's sake.

NewtypeCJ
Sep 24, 2007, 05:41 PM
Reminds me in some ways of people who have modded/hacked Xbox 360s who find themselves permanently banned off of the Xbox Live service. You use the device in a way not authorized by the manufacturer, don't be surprised if at some point you're not able to take advantage of official, updated features.

With stories of people going into Apple Stores looking to buy 200 phones to unlock and resell to European "relatives," I can't say I'm surprised at the possible repercussions this will have on unlockers. While most of the people on this board are looking at it for personal reasons, I can't help but think any bricking is aimed at those who are setting up businesses based around selling unlocked phones. A few opportunists ruining it for everyone.

I'm interested in seeing what the real-world application of the update will do -- if it will actually brick phones and/or make it impossible to hack and install 3rd party apps onto.

matticus008
Sep 24, 2007, 05:42 PM
If apple is bricking phones because they're unlocked (which is legal), I smell a class action lawsuit a-brewing.
Stating what as a cause of action?

They're not "bricking" phones by fixing the vulnerabilities in the software that allow a hacked version of the firmware to defeat the lock. They're serving their customers and shareholders. The firmware updates don't have to honor the back door exploits that made hacking attempts possible.

All they're restricted from doing is suing you for breaking the lock. They don't have to leave the lock broken, and certainly shareholders, customers, regulators, and the public in general would expect them to close exploits.
Sounds to me like they are going to use the excuse that they were fixing a vulnerability and patch the unlocking hack.
They are fixing a vulnerability. It's not an excuse if it's the truth. The exploits they close may well facilitate the unlocking, but they're also security vulnerabilities. It's a mixed bag--a software exploit is what has enabled the "jailbreak" but a company must fix those exploits.

The hackers will have to come up with another way, is all. It'll happen, and people will just have to wait. If they didn't want the inconvenience of delaying their updates, they should have just signed up with the AT&T service that would have skipped the issue entirely.
You can legally unlock your phone and if Apple came swooping in and bricked all those phones, well ****, throw my name into the hat for that lawsuit!
Your phone stays nice and unlocked if you don't update the firmware. You simply can't expect new firmware to play nice with the attempts of hackers. It makes no sense, logically or legally.

You can unlock the phone. If they relocked it without a software update, which is inconceivable, you'd have a case. If the phones were unlocked by input of valid unlock codes, that would certainly be legally problematic. This is not the method of unlocking the iPhone though, and you are therefore afforded no such protection.

We DONT have to support Apple's or AT&T's business plan, and if they insist that unlocking is wrong, a class-action lawsuit is on the cards, folks.
File away. It's not going anywhere. There is no law requiring that phones be sold unlocked or that manufacturers or carriers support the unlocking. It doesn't even make sense that there are people here honestly saying "they should leave software vulnerabilities open because they make my life easier." There's nothing illegal with selling locked phones. It's arguably a stupid business model, but this attitude that you can sue just for not liking something has got to stop somewhere.

DeathChill
Sep 24, 2007, 05:43 PM
No one is pissed at Apple for fixing the bugs that allow unlocking, people are pissed because Apple is saying that the update causes the unlocked phones to break.

Now, I don't see how the update could cause unlocked phones to break. It seems like it would have to be intentional as a firmware update and baseband update would just overwrite the unlock.

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 05:43 PM
No, I said "IF they intentionally" break people's iPhones, then I'm gone. We may never know, but with these kind of statements, it seems that they will DEF do it, so in that regard, its intentional because they are warning us as they are planning on it.

I dont wanna be part of a company that does these sorta things to its customers. Its just down right dirty. If they dont wanna support it, thats fine. But dont break people's equipment for Pete's sake.

Did you ever consider Apple was trying to be nice to you with the warning?

blackcrayon
Sep 24, 2007, 05:43 PM
Why don't you just get a Touch ?

it's been said quite a bit but...
• bluetooth (however disabled it may be)
• camera
• non-crippled apple apps
• 3rd party app support (not yet available for the touch)
• SPEAKER (no need to cram earbuds into your neighbor to play him a youtube clip)
• microphone for voice notes (remember there were voice note features on the previous 3 ipods, so it's not like no one wants that feature)
• slightly longer battery life
• possibility of "calling 911 with your ipod" if you're ever in serious danger
• possibility of EDGE/phone if you decide you actually want them months down the road

of that list, only the 3rd party app support seems to have any chance of changing. Of course, if apple refreshes the iphone software and locks it up as hard as the Touch, that would "change the whole game..."

PDE
Sep 24, 2007, 05:45 PM
One way Apple could solve ALL Of this is to require that everybody who buys an iphone also signs up for ATT in the store. But Apple doesn't want to do that because it would mean losing out on a lot of sales they're making now. It really would cut back on people using unlocked phones, no?

ajhill
Sep 24, 2007, 05:46 PM
As an Apple user for over 20 years I just don't get the whole "right" to be free to unlock an iPhone.

Apple and ATT have spent an enormous amount of money to bring to market a great phone service that is light years ahead of what we had. Now (even though they agreed to terms of use of the product when they activated the iPhone) people think they have the right to modify the phone and expect Apple to fully support the modified iPhone? If someone significantly modifies any other product do the users expect the original manufacturer to support repairs on a modified product?

This whole issue of the "right" to be able to unlock and iPhone and abuse the people who brought the product to market seems like the rantings of a bunch of spoiled children. Yes, the iPhone is expensive. But to use it you have to agree to the terms that Apple and ATT have set forth. If you can't abide by them, go get yourself a Rim or Palm phone.

In this post internet culture people seem to think they have the "right" to do whatever they want. Legal or not.

The old carnies had it right when they barked out at carnivals: "You pays your money, you take your chances!"

As a iPhone user who appreciates what Apple is doing, I say more power to Apple. Let them go after those who would abuse the trust that they agreed to when they signed up for the service.

MonkeyClaw
Sep 24, 2007, 05:46 PM
Did you ever consider Apple was trying to be nice to you with the warning?

That would make too much sense remember?

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 05:48 PM
No one is pissed at Apple for fixing the bugs that allow unlocking, people are pissed because Apple is saying that the update causes the unlocked phones to break.

Now, I don't see how the update could cause unlocked phones to break. It seems like it would have to be intentional as a firmware update and baseband update would just overwrite the unlock.
Are you kidding? So say I have 2 pieces of software on a device. Software A is dependent on Software B and vice versa to operate properly. I hack Software B and the device company updates Software A that is incompatible with your hacked Software B and it causes the device to fail.

GET IT YET?
:confused:

MacNut
Sep 24, 2007, 05:48 PM
After reading this love fest I feel like chiming in now.:p What does the user agreement say about moding the iPhone.

Oh wait nobody ever reads that.:p

cstromme
Sep 24, 2007, 05:49 PM
This is going to be really interesting when they launch over here. By law they're obliged to have a way to unlock the phone in the UK.

I still don't believe they're actually going to brick phones though, I think they're just making sure that people know that it could happen if they have an unlocked phone. With all the different unlock hacks out there now the chances something goes wrong with the new modem software is certainly there.

PDE
Sep 24, 2007, 05:49 PM
As an Apple user for over 20 years I just don't get the whole "right" to be free to unlock an iPhone.

Apple and ATT have spent an enormous amount of money to bring to market a great phone service that is light years ahead of what we had. Now (even though they agreed to terms of use of the product when they activated the iPhone) people think they have the right to modify the phone and expect Apple to fully support the modified iPhone? If someone significantly modifies any other product do the users expect the original manufacturer to support repairs on a modified product?

This whole issue of the "right" to be able to unlock and iPhone and abuse the people who brought the product to market seems like the rantings of a bunch of spoiled children. Yes, the iPhone is expensive. But to use it you have to agree to the terms that Apple and ATT have set forth. If you can't abide by them, go get yourself a Rim or Palm phone.

In this post internet culture people seem to think they have the "right" to do whatever they want. Legal or not.

The old carnies had it right when they barked out at carnivals: "You pays your money, you take your chances!"

As a iPhone user who appreciates what Apple is doing, I say more power to Apple. Let them go after those who would abuse the trust that they agreed to when they signed up for the service.

I never SIGNED up for any service. I went in to the Apple Store, bought an iphone for the asking price, and walked out. Just like most people who have unlocked phones, they didn't buy them from ATT. If Apple would just require activation in the store, most of these issues would be settled.

Dagless
Sep 24, 2007, 05:51 PM
Quick, do a camera shake!

Too much drama in here.

You bought an iPhone with a contract and all that, with agreements that said ¨don't be silly and break this warranty¨. But you did. And now you're the ones angry? Why on earth did you buy one in the first place?

Now to get my number transfered to o2.

maestrokev
Sep 24, 2007, 05:52 PM
That would make too much sense remember?

Yeah, people here love conspiracies and threats of lawsuits

Warped1
Sep 24, 2007, 05:52 PM
The kicker in the press release was this statement by apple:



Which interpreted in a way means that unlocking and 3rd party apps will void the warranty. Luckally there is a way to reverse the unlock...

Please share a step by step way to reverse! I had the phone one day and unlocked it cause I couldnt activate on my company plan with AT&T. Later, I was able to convert my corp plan over to a regular one and activated my phone. I am legit but risk being bricked and would love to reverse the process but do not know how to do it.

Leemo
Sep 24, 2007, 05:52 PM
This whole issue of the "right" to be able to unlock and iPhone and abuse the people who brought the product to market seems like the rantings of a bunch of spoiled children.

In this post internet culture people seem to think they have the "right" to do whatever they want. Legal or not.

I completely agree. As much as I want to be involved in forums such as this to discuss Apple's latest and greatest, I find myself becoming increasingly annoyed by the expectations people have and the way these are voiced.

More than anything (as I mentioned in my post above) I despise the way many people perceive Apple to somehow 'owe' them something. You might have a personal connection to Apple through whatever reason (as do I, I identify with the company and what they do and have been a mac user for years) but please don't act like spoiled brats when they do something you disagree with.

Also - talking in txt spk, omitting vowels, not capitalising words and claiming to know how the legal system works does not make up for an apparent lack of common sense or intelligence.

-Leemo

MacsRgr8
Sep 24, 2007, 05:54 PM
What's the big deal?

Everyone expected the iPhone firmware 1.1.1 to break the current unlocks...

Apple is doing us a favour by warning us instead of having the unhappy few realise it does break your brick... :p

So, don't update the iPhone, until we get a new unlock app. Maybe we need a new relock app first.... we'll see.

The iPhone as it is now, is the finest portable device ever. No need for updating right now. :)

Leemo
Sep 24, 2007, 05:54 PM
I never SIGNED up for any service. I went in to the Apple Store, bought an iphone for the asking price, and walked out. Just like most people who have unlocked phones, they didn't buy them from ATT. If Apple would just require activation in the store, most of these issues would be settled.

Well yes, but you clearly knew what having an iPhone entailed, a 2 year plan with AT&T. Just because they didn't hold your hand through the process counts for jack - the T&Cs are there for everyone to see.

-Leemo

Mydel
Sep 24, 2007, 05:55 PM
No offense, and not to single this post out, but I can't believe the stupidity of someone who unlocks their iPhone. It just takes a bad deal with AT&T and makes it worse. There is no speed increase, and no "deal" to be had on charges. It will cost a great deal more to use on any other network even if it works.

The only person who has any valid, sensible reason to unlock their iPhone is someone who lives in a country that doesn't even have the iPhone yet but wants one. If you want an iPhone that bad, that you are willing to pay 600 bucks for and then possibly brick it, well then your what used to be called a "dilettante" and you deserve whatever you get.

I can't figure out why anybody even cares about this or feels bad for people who have done it. It makes no sense to do it for the most part, and those that *can* do it are basically rich, 1st world consumers that no one should feel sorry for at all.

Worst of all are those that think they have a "right" to force Apple to support their hacks. Last I checked, if I design a product, you can refuse to buy it, but you have no right to tell me how I should design it.

bunch of whiny babies if you ask me. :)

You dont know what are you talking about /no offense:p/ but I live regular basis in 2-3 countries and I like gadgets. On the top of that I will NOT pay AT&T roaming charges. So in US I use AT&T but when I fly to Europe I just swap SIM. It works for me. And I like it that way...

Counter
Sep 24, 2007, 05:56 PM
So the question that begs to be asked, is Apple doing this intentionally or is it just an inevitable part of the software update process??

Regardless, I guess this just means that anyone with a hacked iPhone won't be installing Apple updates.

Without a doubt intentionally. There's no other reason to change the 'lock' on the phone. Other than somebody broke it and AT&T sort of lost exclusivity.

Somebody is going to have to unlock the iPhone all over again. Wonder how long it will take this time?

Then Apple will just change it again.

This is all well and good given current law but current law blows; locking phones to networks should not be allowed.

sblasl
Sep 24, 2007, 05:56 PM
Just think about the new features that the iPhone would probably have already if Apple did not have to waste time hacking phones to see what will happen to them.

Anyone with a "hacked" iphone should be thanking Apple for taking the time, resources, & obviously money to see what the potential ramifications will be be to those with "hacked" phones & then giving notice of the potential "harm".

No sympathy, your taking away talent that could be doing great things-!!

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 05:56 PM
What's the big deal?

Everyone expected the iPhone firmware 1.1.1 to break the current unlocks...

Apple is doing us a favour by warning us instead of having the unhappy few realise it does break your brick... :p

So, don't update the iPhone, until we get a new unlock app. Maybe we need a new relock app first.... we'll see.

The iPhone as it is now, is the finest portable device ever. No need for updating right now. :)
Except


No Copy/Paste
No MMS

:D

dejo
Sep 24, 2007, 05:57 PM
I think it's time to send out another batch of these shirts:
http://data.tumblr.com/10902804_500.jpg

peestandingup
Sep 24, 2007, 05:57 PM
Did you ever consider Apple was trying to be nice to you with the warning?
No. Because the warning is just covering their own a$$es so they can say "See, we told you."

The warning is irrelevant. These hacks are not easy, so we all knew that they could be broken as they arent officially supported.

DeathChill
Sep 24, 2007, 05:58 PM
Are you kidding? So say I have 2 pieces of software on a device. Software A is dependent on Software B and vice versa to operate properly. I hack Software B and the device company updates Software A that is incompatible with your hacked Software B and it causes the device to fail.

GET IT YET?
:confused:

I guess you don't understand. The unlock patches a part of the baseband that allows the phone to work on any carrier. The new update contains a baseband update.

What would normally happen is that the baseband update would just overwrite the existing baseband completely, meaning that it wouldn't matter if you had used the unlock software or not.

The fact that it breaks your phone is odd as the update should simply overwrite everything already there.

pinksatin
Sep 24, 2007, 05:58 PM
What's the big deal?

Everyone expected the iPhone firmware 1.1.1 to break the current unlocks...

Apple is doing us a favour by warning us instead of having the unhappy few realise it does break your brick... :p

So, don't update the iPhone, until we get a new unlock app. Maybe we need a new relock app first.... we'll see.

The iPhone as it is now, is the finest portable device ever. No need for updating right now. :)


I Agree... Everyone should just calm down... Using it as Apple made it is not so bad... is it?

Matthew Yohe
Sep 24, 2007, 05:59 PM
In plain text: If you unlock your phone and something breaks after an update, you suffer the consequences. Go pound sand.

If the people who are in the minority (SIM unlockers) are "smart enough" to hack the phone, you should be "smart enough" to fix it.

Apple has been doing some willful locking down of iPods with recent updates, I don't see this as any different. They have an investment to protect and will not think twice about deploying patches that have the potentional to do "harm".

I see the same "loyal fans" from the $100 rebate drama are coming out to say they will "leave Apple" (OH NOES) if Apple ends up breaking phones, intentionally or not.

This seems to be a warning flare.

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 06:00 PM
Whaaaa Microsoft banned me for hacking my XBOX360 ..whaaaa.

decksnap
Sep 24, 2007, 06:01 PM
It's just so catchy.

I say brick 'em.

Anybody complaining should really get their brain checked.

Mydel
Sep 24, 2007, 06:01 PM
Well yes, but you clearly knew what having an iPhone entailed, a 2 year plan with AT&T. Just because they didn't hold your hand through the process counts for jack - the T&Cs are there for everyone to see.

-Leemo
Hahaha Please wire transfer me 1564$. You clearly knew that you will have to after I read your post...:rolleyes: Get a grip! I like a toy, I dont care about Apple buisiness plan

plinden
Sep 24, 2007, 06:01 PM
Sounds to me like Apple is gonna be putting something in 1.1.1 to brick all the unlockers.... and brick with a vengeance.
More likely the Apple developers won't go out their way to ensure that the update will work on unlocked phones. As a software developer myself, I understand this. There's always the chance that an untested configuration will break. You have to draw the line somewhere when releasing software.

Does not seem like a good idea to me. If they do that, and they thought the backlash after a 200 dollar price drop was bad...
Yes, the fourteen people who've unlocked their iPhones are going to be upset.

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 06:01 PM
No. Because the warning is just covering their own a$$es so they can say "See, we told you."

The warning is irrelevant. These hacks are not easy, so we all knew that they could be broken as they arent officially supported.

First off Apple doesn't need to "cover their own ass" if you've ever taken the time to read the fine print.So that argument is moot.

Secondly Apple has no need to say I told you so since you yourself admitted they aren't officially supported.

You've been warned by Apple.If I were you I'd listen.

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 06:03 PM
Hahaha Please wire transfer me 1564$. You clearly knew that you will have to after I read your post...:rolleyes: Get a grip! I like a toy, I dont care about Apple buisiness plan
AND THEY DON'T CARE IF IT BRICKS YOUR IPHONE. You aren't entitled to ANYTHING. You bought your toy, congratulations. You aren't playing by the rules and the next update might make it worthless. End of story.

Leemo
Sep 24, 2007, 06:03 PM
This seems to be a warning flare.

Definitely - and a warning flare that they didn't really need to offer. They could have just let people brick their phones, and quite frankly that would have been 'tough'.

I nearly bought an iPhone from abroad to unlock - and if I would have done so I still would have had the same viewpoint - you hack, you take your chances.
It's Apple's software and they can bloody well do what they like with it.

-Leemo

flipperanubi
Sep 24, 2007, 06:04 PM
a

PDE
Sep 24, 2007, 06:06 PM
Well yes, but you clearly knew what having an iPhone entailed, a 2 year plan with AT&T. Just because they didn't hold your hand through the process counts for jack - the T&Cs are there for everyone to see.

-Leemo


You totally missed the point. Of course I knew, I'm just saying that APPLE could easily fix this with mandatory in-store activation. It knew damn well this would happen, and of course benefited from it. They could solve it easily, but they obviously don't want to.

I have ATT, just not the plan ATT and Apple wants me to have. If ATT were more accomodating to my needs as a customer of over 5 years, I'd happily activated my iphone through them and pay $20 for a data plan. For now, I'm happy with my pre-cingular ATT plan that gives me massive amounts of minutes for less than anything on offer today.

carfac
Sep 24, 2007, 06:06 PM
Yes, the fourteen people who've unlocked their iPhones are going to be upset.

15 now- I bought another one yesterday.

iLeoMarc
Sep 24, 2007, 06:07 PM
To those who unlocked your iPhones, you have your warning. But Apple is not making you upgrade, so they are not bricking you phones. Choose from getting a supported carrier, and get the new features which your extra revenue stream pays for. Or unlock and keep the firmware you paid for! There really should be no complaints.

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 06:07 PM
What happens when you mod your car out and try to take it to emissions inspection? What happens when the cops see tinted glass that is too dark?

Mydel
Sep 24, 2007, 06:08 PM
AND THEY DON'T CARE IF IT BRICKS YOUR IPHONE. You aren't entitled to ANYTHING. You bought your toy, congratulations. You aren't playing by the rules and the next update might make it worthless. End of story.

Cool!!! Have I ever complained?? No never. I understand that. They just shouldn"t do that on purpose. If after update unlock is not working anymore its also cool with me. I wont update, but bricking the phone on purpose just stink. Seriously, its plain stupid.

arn
Sep 24, 2007, 06:09 PM
i never gotta to install any new iphone software

anyway those free third party software seem better than iphone software.

and it will grow.

Many might... it's conceivable that a unhackable iPhone firmware update could fork the iPhone into two different builds:

1.0.2 + hacks
vs
1.1.1

arn

DeathChill
Sep 24, 2007, 06:10 PM
What happens when you mod your car out and try to take it to emissions inspection? What happens when the cops see tinted glass that is too dark?

Very bad analogy. Those are safety issues; clearly the iPhone doesn't have any software safety issues.

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 06:10 PM
Cool!!! Have I ever complained?? No never. I understand that. They just shouldn"t do that on purpose. If after update unlock is not working anymore its also cool with me. I wont update, but bricking the phone on purpose just stink. Seriously, its plain stupid.
Whether it's intentional or not makes no difference. You paid for what you got, and you are not following terms of service. Therefore you are not entitled to future updates. Apple has the right to protect their intellectual property, you nor anyone else has the "right" to do anything with it beyond terms of service.

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 06:11 PM
Very bad analogy. Those are safety issues; clearly the iPhone doesn't have any software safety issues.
Emissions is not a safety issue.

Warped1
Sep 24, 2007, 06:11 PM
I guess you don't understand. The unlock patches a part of the baseband that allows the phone to work on any carrier. The new update contains a baseband update.

What would normally happen is that the baseband update would just overwrite the existing baseband completely, meaning that it wouldn't matter if you had used the unlock software or not.

The fact that it breaks your phone is odd as the update should simply overwrite everything already there.

I agree. It makes no sense not to work in this manner unless you wanted to brick phones purposely.

sidragon
Sep 24, 2007, 06:13 PM
So the question that begs to be asked, is Apple doing this intentionally or is it just an inevitable part of the software update process??

Regardless, I guess this just means that anyone with a hacked iPhone won't be installing Apple updates.

In addition to standard corporate nonsense, I think they have a contractual obligation with AT&T to break unlocking for the same reason they are beholden to the record industry cartels to "fix" their DRM in iTunes whenever it gets cracked.

daneoni
Sep 24, 2007, 06:14 PM
Emissions is not a safety issue.

Correct but its a health/environmental issue. Eitherway....hazard to others

technicolor
Sep 24, 2007, 06:14 PM
On the back of the iPhone box it says
Requirements: Minimum two year wireless service plan with AT&T required to activate all iPhone features, including iPod features...

one1
Sep 24, 2007, 06:15 PM
Apple is not going to brick the iPhone. It is illegal for them to do so. The end user has the right to unlock the phone. This is the law.

For that matter even if they attempt to relock them they will likely be facing a class action suit since there are laws that protect phones and apple is out of their league in this area.

Me thinks Steve needs to read up on the laws he is not familiar with before he even considers attempting to relock or brick anything.

Know your laws and rights people. Apple is stepping into an area they don't know anything about and their lawyers better read up good before they maliciously do anything. This isn't a computer, it's a protected class (phone) and it has full rights to be unlocked.

Apple can refuse software updates. They can refuse to do anything at all with the phone from here on out, but they cannot lock or brick it based on the fact it is unlocked. No lawyer on earth is that stupid to authorize that for apple to go ahead with knowing the class action that will follow and the involvement of the regulatory commission that controls the phones and the laws.

Period. No malicious software to relock or brick. Apple's "we'll do what we want" attitude (seen in the cisco fiasco) will stop quick when the fcc comes knocking. That's not a company, that's the government.

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 06:15 PM
I agree. It makes no sense not to work in this manner unless you wanted to brick phones purposely.

HOW can you say that not knowing exactly what Apple is updating?

That's pure ignorance.

sanford
Sep 24, 2007, 06:15 PM
Hahaha Legit?? Why my unlocked phone is not legit to you?? I payed the same money as you did. And trust me its not gonna change anything. Even if some phones will die after that update its not gonna stop neither me nor anyone I know from unlocking their phones.



You made a choice, now you're feature-frozen or bricked. I meant legit in the sense I followed the known terms for use, not that you can't legally do with your iPhone as you wish. Apple just doesn't have to support you.

I'm skeptical about you anyway. You mentioned in a post earlier in this thread that you are MD not IT. Assuming you were educated in the States, you want to explain how you were accepted into a medical school without being able to spell words like "paid"?

As for the rest of you I'm not unsympathethic, but you had to know this was coming although you claimed they would never, even when several others and I were telling you all along whether Apple wished to take such extreme measures or not, in order to comply with their contractual agreement with AT&T they must do this.

Mydel
Sep 24, 2007, 06:15 PM
Whether it's intentional or not makes no difference. You paid for what you got, and you are not following terms of service. Therefore you are not entitled to future updates. Apple has the right to protect their intellectual property, you nor anyone else has the "right" to do anything with it beyond terms of service.

It makes HUGE difference. Im sorry that you are blinded not to say brainwashed. please undestand I DONT CARE about updates. iPhone suits me well as it is. I can do much more via 3rd party. I just think that bricking hacked phones is cheap. And they will lose my money. Please dont tell me they dont need it and I can go. I know, but if many of us will go somewhere else Apple will lose not only money but also a "cool " factor.

peestandingup
Sep 24, 2007, 06:16 PM
First off Apple doesn't need to "cover their own ass" if you've ever taken the time to read the fine print.So that argument is moot.

Secondly Apple has no need to say I told you so since you yourself admitted they aren't officially supported.
Thats my point, dude. We all know, so why release a statement?? Because they wanna seem like "good guys" & its good PR, thats why. It doesn't make it right.

Warped1
Sep 24, 2007, 06:16 PM
What happens when you mod your car out and try to take it to emissions inspection? What happens when the cops see tinted glass that is too dark?

If you buy a Ford are you forced to only fill it up at Exxon?

MacNut
Sep 24, 2007, 06:16 PM
On the back of the iPhone box it says
Requirements: Minimum two year wireless service plan with AT&T required to activate all iPhone features, including iPod features...I think that is part of the problem, Apple never should of made deals with providers, in the long run that will come back and bite Apple in the butt.

sanford
Sep 24, 2007, 06:18 PM
On the back of the iPhone box it says
Requirements: Minimum two year wireless service plan with AT&T required to activate all iPhone features, including iPod features...



If that's not establishing terms for supported use I don't know what is.

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 06:18 PM
Thats my point, dude. We all know, so why release a statement?? Because they wanna seem like "good guys" & its good PR, thats why. It doesn't make it right.

Did ya ever think they released the statement so people that are clueless don't go to Apple and complain about their hacked iPhone?

daze
Sep 24, 2007, 06:20 PM
Sorry, I thought they were both talking about the same thing.

Good thing I didn't pop across the border last weekend and get mine. I'm in Canada and thought I had a plan! Guess not. Damn.

For those of us in Canada, let's just put it this way: You have no other option but to unlock the phone and use it. Just wait for other people to try and see if the latest firmware breaks anything. I doubt the new software would bring anything so terribly great that we must upgrade to it. Unless Apple does something nasty and requires you to update with future iTunes versions.

I am in Canada, and happy with my unlocked phone. It rocks.

PS: Also hoping that in Q1 2008, Rogers will offer the phone + plan. Key word is hoping.

Mydel
Sep 24, 2007, 06:20 PM
You made a choice, now you're feature-frozen or bricked. I meant legit in the sense I followed the known terms for use, not that you can't legally do with your iPhone as you wish. Apple just doesn't have to support you.

I'm skeptical about you anyway. You mentioned in a post earlier in this thread that you are MD not IT. Assuming you were educated in the States, you want to explain how you were accepted into a medical school without being able to spell words like "paid"?

As for the rest of you I'm not unsympathethic, but you had to know this was coming although you claimed they would never, even when several others and I were telling you all along whether Apple wished to take such extreme measures or not, in order to comply with their contractual agreement with AT&T they must do this.

Im living in US 4-6 months a year, I speak few languages but english is not my first. Sorry if it make such a huge difference to you.
I'm not complaining about not being able to update. All I say IF they will brick phones on purpose it really stink. Thats it. They shouldn't do this.

atropos
Sep 24, 2007, 06:20 PM
Just wonder if I transfer a "virgin" state iPhone's files and to unlock iPhone to relock the iPhone?:confused:

You can get back the iPhone to "virgin" state. just need to flash the baseband and than restore. I did it once. But its not that easy. You need to extract files from original software and than type in terminal, and trust me typing terminal on iphone keybord aint fun:o
Than the unlock is gone and phone requires activation from the scratch

peestandingup
Sep 24, 2007, 06:21 PM
Did ya ever think they released the statement so people that are clueless don't go to Apple and complain about their hacked iPhone?
I got a news flash for you, chief. People who are "clueless" dont know the first thing about how to unlock their iPhone.

Leemo
Sep 24, 2007, 06:23 PM
I got a news flash for you, chief. People who are "clueless" dont know the first thing about how to unlock their iPhone.

I think rather than 'clueless' he meant to put 'dumb'.

There are plenty of dumb people who've unlocked their iPhones without fully understanding what that might mean in the future.

-Leemo

sidragon
Sep 24, 2007, 06:23 PM
Whether it's intentional or not makes no difference. You paid for what you got, and you are not following terms of service. Therefore you are not entitled to future updates. Apple has the right to protect their intellectual property, you nor anyone else has the "right" to do anything with it beyond terms of service.

Exactly what "intellectual property" are they protecting? Contrary to your opinion, you do have the right to dispose of your property as you see fit, and that includes everything from unlocking your cell phone (http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/node/5005) to modifying your car such that its engine burns biodiesel. Do not confuse property rights, intellectual or otherwise and relevant or not to this discussion, with the fact that Apple has no obligation to support your exercise of those rights.

LizKat
Sep 24, 2007, 06:23 PM
Apple gave us nothing, and the hacks gave us everything.

And God was angry, and drove them all out in his Fury (a Plymouth, btw).

I always knew there was something biblical about this whole gig.

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 06:24 PM
I got a news flash for you, chief. People who are "clueless" dont know the first thing about how to unlock their iPhone.


I got REAL news for a LOT of iPhone script kiddies on MacRumors.Most ARE clueless.

Mydel
Sep 24, 2007, 06:26 PM
I got REAL news for a LOT of Iphone script kiddies on MacRumors.Most ARE clueless.

You are sooo right. Its scary sometimes that they have computers:D;)

Limeyness
Sep 24, 2007, 06:30 PM
Apple is not going to brick the iPhone. It is illegal for them to do so. The end user has the right to unlock the phone. This is the law.

For that matter even if they attempt to relock them they will likely be facing a class action suit since there are laws that protect phones and apple is out of their league in this area.

Me thinks Steve needs to read up on the laws he is not familiar with before he even considers attempting to relock or brick anything.

Know your laws and rights people. Apple is stepping into an area they don't know anything about and their lawyers better read up good before they maliciously do anything. This isn't a computer, it's a protected class (phone) and it has full rights to be unlocked.

Apple can refuse software updates. They can refuse to do anything at all with the phone from here on out, but they cannot lock or brick it based on the fact it is unlocked. No lawyer on earth is that stupid to authorize that for apple to go ahead with knowing the class action that will follow and the involvement of the regulatory commission that controls the phones and the laws.

Period. No malicious software to relock or brick. Apple's "we'll do what we want" attitude (seen in the cisco fiasco) will stop quick when the fcc comes knocking. That's not a company, that's the government.

Really? I thought that they could update the software/firmware on their phone as and when they liked. If it happens to plug a security hole being exploited then too bad for the exploiters.

Intentionally bricking is one thing, fixing loopholes to fix exploits seems like another.

DMann
Sep 24, 2007, 06:30 PM
Just wonder if I transfer a "virgin" state iPhone's files and to unlock iPhone to relock the iPhone?:confused:

Solutions are emerging already. Soon, an app will be available to make this a one-button process:

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/09/24/how-to-relock-your-iphone-before-the-firmware-update/

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 06:30 PM
Correct but its a health/environmental issue. Eitherway....hazard to others
Ok so an iPhone mod causes it to use more battery life, leading to more frequent charges, leading to more coal being burned.

one1
Sep 24, 2007, 06:31 PM
the PR was about "unlocked iphones" which from that angle will get them in a world of trouble.

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 06:31 PM
If you buy a Ford are you forced to only fill it up at Exxon?
Often times I am, ever heard of engines that require 93+ octane ONLY?

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 06:32 PM
You are sooo right. Its scary sometimes that they have computers:D;)

I corrected my spelling error :p

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 06:33 PM
Exactly what "intellectual property" are they protecting? Contrary to your opinion, you do have the right to dispose of your property as you see fit, and that includes everything from unlocking your cell phone (http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/node/5005) to modifying your car such that its engine burns biodiesel. Do not confuse property rights, intellectual or otherwise and relevant or not to this discussion, with the fact that Apple has no obligation to support your exercise of those rights.
IPHONE SOFTWARE IS NOT YOUR PROPERTY. The actual tangible piece of glass/metal and plastic is ALL THAT YOU OWN.

Benjamindaines
Sep 24, 2007, 06:34 PM
in like 4 days after

there will be a new iUnlock app..that will work...so it doesnt matter

Not if Apple encrypts the iPhone like they did the touch.

MacAerfen
Sep 24, 2007, 06:36 PM
First off Apple is not purposely bricking the phones. They simply are not going to bother wasting revenue rewriting code around third party hacks. We are not talking about just a software update. We are talking about firmware. For those that do not understand firmware (I mean that in the sense that not everyone is a computer tech), firmware is software that resides in a chip on the main circuit board of the hardware (if this was a windows PC we would call it a bios chip). The hack for the iPhone didn't just change the OS of the iPhone it rewrote that firmware. Restoring the iPhone does not restore the firmware. It is very possible that the hacked firmware may be unable to be flashed in the same way that the original firmware is, therefor trying to run a legit firmware update may corrupt the firmware chip rendering it unusable. The iPhone at that point would not function and would not be restorable. It is likely that Apple would have a firmware restore utility however even that would not be guaranteed to work because most likely it would be designed with the purpose of fixing a misapplied legit firmware.

As for shouting foul to Apple I have to say props to them for making this public before the update. They did not have to give any warning other than the license agreement for the update which most people do not read other than to simply say OK. You have been given a rare warning that most companies do not bother doing, those that have hacked their iPhones have a chance to either find a way to restore the phone to non hacked versions or forgo and upgrades. I would also suggest acting quickly on this as well as most of the sites that are providing a guide to do this are linking to copies of the original Apple firmware which Apple does not actually make available for download so that might get shut down pretty quick.

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 06:39 PM
First off Apple is not purposely bricking the phones. They simply are not going to bother wasting revenue rewriting code around third party hacks. We are not talking about just a software update. We are talking about firmware. For those that do not understand firmware (I mean that in the sense that not everyone is a computer tech), firmware is software that resides in a chip on the main circuit board of the hardware (if this was a windows PC we would call it a bios chip). The hack for the iPhone didn't just change the OS of the iPhone it rewrote that firmware. Restoring the iPhone does not restore the firmware. It is very possible that the hacked firmware may be unable to be flashed in the same way that the original firmware is, therefor trying to run a legit firmware update may corrupt the firmware chip rendering it unusable. The iPhone at that point would not function and would not be restorable. It is likely that Apple would have a firmware restore utility however even that would not be guaranteed to work because most likely it would be designed with the purpose of fixing a misapplied legit firmware.

As for shouting foul to Apple I have to say props to them for making this public before the update. They did not have to give any warning other than the license agreement for the update which most people do not read other than to simply say OK. You have been given a rare warning that most companies do not bother doing, those that have hacked their iPhones have a chance to either find a way to restore the phone to non hacked versions or forgo and upgrades.
EXxxxxxxxxxxxxactly. Anyone who has ever tried updating a BIOS and has seen the checksum error for verifying a legit current BIOS - has seen exactly what can happen. Much of the reason for motherboards such as those from Gigabyte featuring "dual bios". One is the active, one is the unmodifiable original - in the event the flashing fails, the board will default to the original.

D1G1T4L
Sep 24, 2007, 06:40 PM
the PR was about "unlocked iphones" which from that angle will get them in a world of trouble.

What trouble? The software unlock is taking advantage of a open door (just using an example). Apple closes door for security reasons but saw that it was being used by unlockers. Puts out press release.....update may hurt unlocks. Now they didn't go after the unlocks just finally closed the door that was being abused. Don't see how they would be in the wrong.

MarkMS
Sep 24, 2007, 06:42 PM
Unlocking your iPhone is not illegal. In fact, I believe US Law allows anyone to unlock their phones should they wish (hence why most carriers will provide an unlock code).

If apple is bricking phones because they're unlocked (which is legal), I smell a class action lawsuit a-brewing.

Edit:

Here's the link:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061124-8280.html


Yep, it's in the DMCA.

Edit #2:
I just wanted to add that the apple fanboy-ism that some people spewing out here is rather disgusting.

What? A lawsuit? Give me a break, Apple doesn't want to brick iPhones. I just so happens that the update may break the iPhone and they don't want you complaining to them. Code was edited on the firmware and it so happens that the update needs an unedited firmware. And they don't have to legally support unlocked iPhones. Yes, it is legal for you to unlock, but they don't have to make sure that is fully updated. Too much time would be wasted trying to work around all these hacks.

Even if they were intentionally bricking, you think Apple will come out and say "Yes, we are 'bricking' these iPhones on purpose?" Hell no. They'll just say that it so happened that the update wasn't meant for unlocked phones.

Same goes for car dealerships. That warranty for the car is kept alive as long as you don't mess with the internals. You add a cold-intake and a few modifications that don't do too much to your car, and you can kiss that warranty goodbye.

daneoni
Sep 24, 2007, 06:45 PM
Ok so an iPhone mod causes it to use more battery life, leading to more frequent charges, leading to more coal being burned.

Funny man :rolleyes:. iPhone causes no safety/hazard issues as a result of an unlock/hack. It doesn't have an exhaust or tinted glass

Im not having this analogy arguement with you. Don't have that much time to waste.

sanford
Sep 24, 2007, 06:46 PM
Im living in US 4-6 months a year, I speak few languages but english is not my first. Sorry if it make such a huge difference to you.
I'm not complaining about not being able to update. All I say IF they will brick phones on purpose it really stink. Thats it. They shouldn't do this.

English not being your native language, such mistakes in past tense verbs are understandable. Skepticism withdrawn.

It does stink. But they have to stop people who think they can safely unlock. A crushing blow is about the only way to do that. And some people are going to get bricked. That new firmware will hit tomorrow and some unlockers will have yet to read Apple's announcement. They'll say you can't say we didn't warn you even though the eleventh hour timing will be intentional: Some people have to get bricked to get the point across.

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 06:47 PM
Don't have that much time to waste.
Clearly that is the case.

matticus008
Sep 24, 2007, 06:48 PM
Apple has the right to protect their intellectual property, you nor anyone else has the "right" to do anything with it beyond terms of service.Exactly what "intellectual property" are they protecting?
What the poster hopefully meant was that Apple was exercising their property rights by closing "holes in the fence" and exercising their prerogative in developing a new version of the firmware code.

you do have the right to dispose of your property as you see fit, and that includes everything from unlocking your cell phone to modifying your car such that its engine burns biodiesel.
Ah, but there's the rub. Unlike the parts of your engine, none of the iPhone code is your property. You are given permission to unlock the handset specifically because doing so would otherwise be an infringement on Apple's rights. It does not follow from that rationale that you can do anything else with the code.

The rationale you're actually reaching for is personal use which is certainly workable so long as you're not distributing or interfering with commercial interests.
Do not confuse property rights, intellectual or otherwise and relevant or not to this discussion, with the fact that Apple has no obligation to support your exercise of those rights.
Absolutely. Your right to unlock your phone does not extend to a right to bar Apple from fixing the hole.

technicolor
Sep 24, 2007, 06:48 PM
If you buy a Ford are you forced to only fill it up at Exxon?
Youd have valid point if they didnt tell you before you purchased it that you had to fill up at Exxon. I mean the only fill up at Exxon sticker is plastered all over the car.:rolleyes: If you dont like it, dont buy that car.

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 06:49 PM
English not being your native language, such mistakes in past tense verbs are understandable. Skepticism withdrawn.

It does stink. But they have to stop people who think they can safely unlock. A crushing blow is about the only way to do that. And some people are going to get bricked. That new firmware will hit tomorrow and some unlockers will have yet to read Apple's announcement. They'll say you can't say we didn't warn you even though the eleventh hour timing will be intentional: Some people have to get bricked to get the point across.

Unfortunately thats true but I don't think it will come out tomorrow. Probably Wednesday or Thursday because Apple wants to make sure this message has been grokked.

;)

Sobe
Sep 24, 2007, 06:51 PM
They can easily explain it away as fixing security flaws for their user base.

aapl.jlo
Sep 24, 2007, 06:52 PM
I feel no pity towards the people that do not read the disclaimer before they click the "OK" (I wonder if it's Approve or Deny on Vista) when they put this on their iPhones. I would never put a 3rd party's software on my 500$ iPhone. Seems like people are just in too big of a rush to switch.

If you can afford to buy an iPhone, I think you can survive paying AT&T's outrageous pricing on everything.

It's like the people that put Linux on the iPod Videos. It's downright disgusting

sananda
Sep 24, 2007, 06:53 PM
Youd have valid point if they didnt tell you before you purchased it that you had to fill up at Exxon. I mean the only fill up at Exxon sticker is plastered all over the car.:rolleyes: If you dont like it, dont buy that car.

that would be an unenforceable term of the contract.

TimmyDee
Sep 24, 2007, 06:57 PM
If you can afford to buy an iPhone, I think you can survive paying AT&T's outrageous pricing on everything.

That's a pretty broad statement. AT&T's outrageous pricing more than doubles the cost of the iPhone. So no, if you can afford the iPhone, you can't necessarily afford the contract.

technicolor
Sep 24, 2007, 06:57 PM
that would be an unenforceable term of the contract.
Well good thing we arent talking about cars then right. On the iPhone it is and everyone had the same information at the time of purchase. There is a sticker on the back the box clear as day as to what is required for the phone. :rolleyes:

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 06:59 PM
That's a pretty broad statement. AT&T's outrageous pricing more than doubles the cost of the iPhone. So no, if you can afford the iPhone, you can't necessarily afford the contract.
At least in the states, AT&T's pricing is obscenely cheap compared to other data plans. $70 for 500/5000 UNLIMITED DATA 1500SMS??!? That's NOTHING.

steve31
Sep 24, 2007, 07:03 PM
To those who unlocked your iPhones, you have your warning. But Apple is not making you upgrade, so they are not bricking you phones. Choose from getting a supported carrier, and get the new features which your extra revenue stream pays for. Or unlock and keep the firmware you paid for! There really should be no complaints. Well said!!!! I bought one last night and its shipping to me here in Canada..I will not update the phone or itunes until I know its safe!

sananda
Sep 24, 2007, 07:03 PM
Well good thing we arent talking about cars then right. On the iPhone it is and everyone had the same information at the time of purchase. There is a sticker on the back the box clear as day as to what is required for the phone. :rolleyes:

well i've never seen an iphone box but from what you posted earlier it isn't a term of the agreement to buy the phone that you must take service with at&t. you say it says that to activate it's features you must take at&t service.

TXCraig
Sep 24, 2007, 07:05 PM
Have you all forgotten that Apple gets a cut of your AT&T bill? If you hack the phone they don't get that nice monthly revenue for the next 2 years +

Its in Apple's best interest to lock the phone and keep it locked.

Let's say Apple gets 10% of the phone bill and the average phone bill is 100.00 per month. They have sold a million phones so far.....

10 X 1 million.... hum... 10 million dollars a month... for doing nothing! They will work hard to keep the phone locked... and not just to keep AT&T happy!

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 07:05 PM
Grabbed from Gizmodo (http://www.gizmodo.com) :D

Keebler
Sep 24, 2007, 07:07 PM
if anyone is surprised by this, they need a slap upside the head.

of course apple is going to protect a revenue source...why wouldn't they?

good for them.

MikeTheC
Sep 24, 2007, 07:07 PM
I am so sick of constantly hearing about the d--n iPhone, and doubly so about people b----ing about how Apple is going to potentially brick (or semi-brick) their phones.

You people are stupid, whiny, spoiled little children, you know that?!?!? Grow up and grow a pair already. Hardware manufacturers don't support (as a rule) user modifications to the equipment in question. Moreover, what in God's name were you thinking when you spent $600 in the first place?

What I'd like to know is why you bought a phone knowing full well that the default carrier -- as well as what you might call the "carrier of last resort" -- for the iPhone is AT&T, and now you are faced with the possibility of either *having* to become their customer or playing this stupid little cat-n-mouse game with Apple. I dislike AT&T with a passion and would never allow myself to be put into the position of being made to *have* to deal with them.

Get a life, people. Get a life.

NewtypeCJ
Sep 24, 2007, 07:08 PM
You totally missed the point. Of course I knew, I'm just saying that APPLE could easily fix this with mandatory in-store activation. It knew damn well this would happen, and of course benefited from it. They could solve it easily, but they obviously don't want to.

How would mandatory in-store activation have fixed it, though? People would have found ways around that too. And iTunes activation is WAY more preferable to me than having to activate in the store. If keeping iTunes activation open means bricking those who unlock to use other carriers, let there be bricks.

edoates
Sep 24, 2007, 07:13 PM
Ok......adding a ringtone for free isnt going to brick your phone when updates arrive (yes, they'll probably disappear).

We're talking baseband being flashed.


Catch up.

This whole unlock / brick controversy is contrived. If Apple is purposely bricking modified phones, then they will get sued and they will lose (several years ago, some software company tried disabling their business critical software when the license timer ran out if not renewed in time. They got sued and LOST severely, so there is precedent)

If the bricking is incidental, then that's just the way it goes. As an analogy, supposing you changed a chip on your BMW for a high-performance one. Then later, you took it to BMW for some fix or another, and they changed a DIFFERENT chip out for a new version which turned out didn't interface correctly with your after market chip. You would have no recourse other than restoring the original chip. Same deal if you over-write component firmware on your iPhone, graphics card, whatever. Apple should be under no obligation to make sure that every weird firmware hack will work when Apple issues an update.

Eddie O

technicolor
Sep 24, 2007, 07:13 PM
well i've never seen an iphone box but from what you posted earlier it isn't a term of the agreement to buy the phone that you must take service with at&t. you say it says that to activate it's features you must take at&t service.Play semantics all you want to. If you have an iPhone and are not using At&T's service you are in violation of the TOS.

sananda
Sep 24, 2007, 07:14 PM
Play semantics all you want to. If you have an iPhone and are not using At&T's service you are in violation of the TOS.

what tos are these?

airfrancisco
Sep 24, 2007, 07:16 PM
Should I do the relock guide, if I unlocked it when I first got my iphone, then restore it to get At&T contract?

plumbingandtech
Sep 24, 2007, 07:21 PM
what tos are these?

the one you see when you activate the iphone for the first time.

sananda
Sep 24, 2007, 07:25 PM
the one you see when you activate the form for the first time.

technicolor is suggesting that "if you have an iPhone and are not using At&T's service you are in violation of the TOS". no-one can be required to activate the phone via itunes. so if you don't do so you never see let alone agree to a term that you will use at&t. so it cannot be right that if you have an iphone and do not have an airtime agreement with at&t you are in breach of an agreement.

airfrancisco
Sep 24, 2007, 07:27 PM
Will the update affect my iphone if I unlocked it the first day I got my iphone and then restore it to get AT&T activation contract?

kdarling
Sep 24, 2007, 07:27 PM
Have you all forgotten that Apple gets a cut of your AT&T bill?

Exactly.

At the same time, they have to tread carefully, and their updates have to mess up unlocked phones only "by coincidence".

Too many traps for Apple. Congress is not happy with them over the carrier exclusivity in the first place. The legality of relocking is also up in the air. I don't even know how they can claim it voids a warranty, since they have no software warranty!

In the meantime, the best they can do is what they did: warn everyone so people can restore before updating, and wait for the next unlock hack.

overcast
Sep 24, 2007, 07:27 PM
The majority of us are using OSX on MAC ONLY hardware yes? Do you also have an issue that Apple does not support you running OSX on anything but? What happens when they release a new update that attempts to thwart osx86 users??? How is this ANY different?

stuff99
Sep 24, 2007, 07:30 PM
can you just chose not to update the firmware if u have an unlocked phone?

Peace
Sep 24, 2007, 07:31 PM
technicolor is suggesting that "if you have an iPhone and are not using At&T's service you are in violation of the TOS". no-one can be required to activate the phone via itunes. so if you don't do so you never see let alone agree to a term that you will use at&t. so it cannot be right that if you have an iphone and do not have an airtime agreement with at&t you are in breach of an agreement.


There's also SOFTWARE on the iPhone.YOU do NOT own it.APPLE does.



From the back of the box :

"Use is subject to Apple and third party software licenses"

sblasl
Sep 24, 2007, 07:31 PM
From the box:

"Requirements: Minimum new two-year wireless service plan with AT&T required to activate all iPhone features, including iPod features."

technicolor is suggesting that "if you have an iPhone and are not using At&T's service you are in violation of the TOS". no-one can be required to activate the phone via itunes. so if you don't do so you never see let alone agree to a term that you will use at&t. so it cannot be right that if you have an iphone and do not have an airtime agreement with at&t you are in breach of an agreement.

Tom Sawyer
Sep 24, 2007, 07:33 PM
So my question is this: Is T-Mobile THAT much better/cheaper/etc to AT&T that it is worth:

1) going through the trouble of the hack
2) potentially bricking the iPhone
3) voiding the warranty
4) losing functionality (visual voice mail and other functions perhaps?)

Legitimate question... this is not a bash on anyone doing it, just really wondering if T-Mobile is that much better and worth the trouble?

I personally switched from Sprint and could not be happier with AT&T, but then sprint is the suck so go figure. :D

matticus008
Sep 24, 2007, 07:33 PM
well i've never seen an iphone box but from what you posted earlier it isn't a term of the agreement to buy the phone that you must take service with at&t. you say it says that to activate it's features you must take at&t service.
What would be the purpose of purchasing a product with no functionality? The terms of sale are that the product works exclusively with AT&T. If you can get it to do other things without breaking laws, that's great. But you've got no legal recourse when it stops doing those unapproved and unspecified things. There's certainly no fitness claim to be raised.
that would be an unenforceable term of the contract.
That depends. If Exxon is providing the car, or paying insurance, and you agree to use Exxon gas exclusively, that's completely valid, for starters. However, the gas example is absurd in our market. If the gasoline market had different dynamics, it wouldn't be. The premise is invalid and no comparison can be drawn.

gwangung
Sep 24, 2007, 07:35 PM
You are sooo right. Its scary sometimes that they have computers:D;)

Well, you've read the forums...

If you're NOT scared...you're not breathing!

TXCraig
Sep 24, 2007, 07:37 PM
So my question is this: Is T-Mobile THAT much better/cheaper/etc to AT&T :D

I was a T-Mobile customer before the iPhone. The calling and data plans are better over at T-Mobile, not enough for me to go back- I happily paid 200.00 to leave.

DeathChill
Sep 24, 2007, 07:39 PM
The majority of us are using OSX on MAC ONLY hardware yes? Do you also have an issue that Apple does not support you running OSX on anything but? What happens when they release a new update that attempts to thwart osx86 users??? How is this ANY different?

It's different because running OS X x86 on non-Apple hardware and updating will not brick your entire computer just because you're using it in a way Apple doesn't like.

I just don't get why the update would brick the iPhone as it should simply overwrite any of the unlock hacks unless Apple is selectively choosing to patch parts of the baseband just to screw unlockers over.