My phone line is...

[mymemory]

How do you call when the government is listening to your phone calls and recording them?

Well, that is going one with one of my phone lines. I just found out last week but I was suspecting it since December.

I work for an intelligence group opposite to the government, we have lots of meetings here in my house but in december I got cought by the National Guard protesting. I can't fall in to details but they took me arrested to the intelligence department. I spended the night there actually talking with the rest of the National Guards until 4am in the morning. They didn't put me in a cell or anything, I was free to do waht ever I wanted except scape, I even sleep in the office with the other guards.

In the morning they took me to a civilian court togather with a bunch of criminals.

To make the story short after 5 month I was free of charge. I was realise the same day but I had charges that didn't allow me to leave the country!!!

Any way, last week some one told me a way to see if my phone line was (...) and one of my phone line is!

Just pick up the phone, dial just one number, whait..., you are gonna get the wrong number tone, wait..., the tone will be gone and then a silence...

Well, in one of my phone lines I get a sound like a analog recording machine switching it self off. I'm and audio engineer and I know those sounds. Then the silence is different, like something rotating or making pulses and that it, it keeps going like that for ever.

Interesting, isn't?

I just do not care about the recordings, I know there are more important people than me talking more important things, but it is a way to monitoring what is going on.

[Powerbook G5]

I wouldn't be surprised if they also have a way to monitor your emails/computer activity. There are programs out there (especially in the Windows world) that can record your every keystroke and send the info anywhere.

[Royal Pineapple]

the word yer looking for is "tapped"

[mnkeybsness]

aren't you planning on moving to a different country? i thought you had mentioned that before, but it could have been another member...

i would be pretty pissed off if the government was listening in on me. talk about invasion of privacy!

[xpormac]

god...bless...america.........:D

[tazo]

Wow the naivete of some people.

There is a global surveillance system known as echelon, which you can read about here:
http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/te/6929/1.html

The US has been spying on US citizens and surrounding countries for years;
many other countries including those in Europe are part of the Echelon network.

God.....Bless....America....

Don't you mean...
Insertreligiousfigureofyourchoiceornofigureifyouragnostic Bless America?

Assuming said individual indeeds wishes that the the religiousfigureofyourchoiceornofigureifyouragnostic need bless America.

Mymemory,
I thought you were a musician? Or is this just your "cover"?

[TEG]

I've always heard noise on my lines, like a rewinding cassette machine. I always thought is was drift from other lines, or some equipment at the phone company. But I just realized that it was only on phones with my last name on it. Its not at my family with different last names, but on those with the same seem to have this affliction. it may have something to do with my dad's service in the Navy, But it really could just be noise.

Never the less, with your experience I'll watch what I say on the Telephone.

TEG

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by xpormac
god...bless...america.........:D

You don't think they are doing this here?

Its called the Patriot Act, and now the next patriot act (http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism_militias/son-of-patriot.php) aka Patriot Act II or Son of Patriot .

You would never know at all really.

I suspected the gov't did something with my phones in my house.

Over the day the wire in my house changed, they were replaced, without my parents, family, friends or repair servicemen over my house.

Its happening faster then you think.

[Powerbook G5]

Okay, I think it's time for a little mandatory X-Files time out!:p

[Juventuz]

wow, there are a lot of paranoid Americans on this forum.

BTW, that wasn't directed at you mymemory.

[Giaguara]

I never trust the phone. Many times i've said "I don't want to talk about this topic in the phone. I'll talk about it face to face". Or if I need more privacy, I use pay phones. But my basic assumption of the phone is that I'm not 100 % sure it's not listened. I admit my paranoias about this have got to the point I had 10 mobile phone numbers of which I remembered 1 or 2, and used the other 8 to only call. I have my reasons for having done so though. And not explaining the reason to most people even face to face.

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by xpormac
god...bless...america.........:D

It's happening over here too, buddy... the department of homeland security, empowered by the illegal patriot act, is the first governmental agency specifically given the task of spying on it's citizens. Most due process has been removed from surveillance, so they can tap phone/internet connections on a whim.

All to help prevent terrorism... of course. Governments never abuse emergency powers...

pnw

[Powerbook G5]

Well, technically, the government can suspend any and all of our rights if they feel it necessary...Lincoln pretty much trampled all over the consitution...yet we consider him a hero...how ironic is that?

[tazo]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
It's happening over here too, buddy... the department of homeland security, empowered by the illegal patriot act, is the first governmental agency specifically given the task of spying on it's citizens. Most due process has been removed from surveillance, so they can tap phone/internet connections on a whim.

All to help prevent terrorism... of course. Governments never abuse emergency powers...

pnw

Actually the NSA was the agency dedicated to surveillance...originally...

[mymemory]

Manky stuff... I'm moving to New York, you could read my signature once in a while.

Yes, my "cover" is as musician. I was an active musician a long time ago and I'm in to video right now but as there are no jobs (I'm making lees of $300 a month) joing an organization 2 years ago created to remove the president and create awarness of the Venezuelan situation.

Now, we discovered that we had a lot of anemies in the same opposition, there were political parties that wanted to remove the president but not that fast yet. Little by little we started to discover the complots, the networks between the president and people of the opposition that where actually helping him.

That way in 2 years you can accumulate a lot of information and you have bases to prove them.

I have a email data base that I send to people with very accurate analisys of current events and weather or not they are true. For example: there was a rumor in december that the government had 500.000 body bags because of a near armed confrontation. The idea was to scare people and making them stay at home. Well, those bags never exist but that psicological treatment used very wisely can destroy the opponents of a goverment without the use of a single bullet.

Well, my job (for free) is to discover such "smoke bombs" and spread the information and to remind the people that "this story is just like that one when..." and nothing happen. So people is not affraid of the government any more and we literally are showing that "the emperor has no clothes".

Of course I'm not the one with the biggest data base, I'm in some other stuff now, people are already aware enough of the situation but my phone still "tapped".

Actually, here is a picture of me last wensday marching downtown.

[Durandal7]

Of course they are doing it here. Someone has already pointed out Echelon, and believe me that has been in existence a lot longer then the Patriot Act. They're just being more blatant about it now.

You can hook a voltmeter to your phone line to monitor for recording equipment picking up, a sudden drop or spike in line voltage indicates that a device has been attached to the circuit you are on. Patch the voltmeter into the center 2 wires on the phone line and keep an eye on it, if there is a listening device there will be some changes in the voltage. It won't pick up Echelon-type listening but it sounds like the Venezualan government is using fairly primitive methods which can be picked up using this method.

[mymemory]

Well, I do not know about the primitive part, remember that governments are never cheap about their security. Now, I wouldn't use the latest equipment to monitoring me neither.

I'm aware with some of the technical stuff too because I'm not the only one with his phone line tapped around here. I'm more familiar with the cell phones technologies, some of them are impossible to tapp, they just can record the information and reading it at the end of the day, it can not be done real time.

But who knows, poor guy the one listening to my conversations, at list he know a bit more about Macs than he did a year before.:rolleyes:

[Powerbook G5]

"Hey listen...this guy says there are these computers that don't crash, don't have security patches every other day, and don't get a virus..." "That's crazy, he must be crazy! That's it, call off the tap...this nut is dilusional, he thinks he can use an 'Apple' to email people! Who's heard of using a piece of fruit to overthrow the government!"

[RobVanDam]

Originally posted by tazo
Don't you mean...
Insertreligiousfigureofyourchoiceornofigureifyouragnostic Bless America?

Assuming said individual indeeds wishes that the the religiousfigureofyourchoiceornofigureifyouragnostic need bless America.Thanks tazo, I needed a good laugh

Mymemory, just remember the key thing. Don't ever say you'll do anything violent.

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by RobVanDam
Thanks tazo, I needed a good laugh

Mymemory, just remember the key thing. Don't ever say you'll do anything violent.

Yeah speaking on-telephone saying your gonna do something will be a no-no.



With my case, I'm 100% sure it is just being recorded and scanned and downloaded into a server farm out west.

:rolleyes:

Everytime I'm on the phone I say some gibberish like 'terriosmal-quedabushkillafganistantalibanIraqbomb'

To set off the red-flags... :cool:

[teabgs]

Originally posted by Juventuz
wow, there are a lot of paranoid Americans on this forum.


it's not paranoid when they're actually doing it.

It's been going on for years, and now with the "patriot act" they can do whatever they want.

The un-told stories by the media speak the truth. There's a lot of messed up stuff thats happened in NYC these last few years which is apparently not covered by the media, it's all spread by word of mouth here.

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by Juventuz
wow, there are a lot of paranoid Americans on this forum.

BTW, that wasn't directed at you mymemory.

It's not paranoia. When Congress passes a blanket-act that allows the Justice Department and other enformcement agencies to pry into everythinng--even your library record--and to arrest people at-will with a suspension of the writ of habeas corpus, then I think there is a problem.

Secret intelligence courts, tribunals, etc., are becoming the norm when people can be called terrorists.

Right after Sept. 11, hundreds of people were arrested for no reason at all, except that their skin color was brown. This, of course, hasn't stopped me from voicing my criticism for this militant administration, but some still don't get it.

Only a few weeks ago, the following occurred.

A man was online at work looking at a site titled "Weapons of Mass Stupidity," discussing Bush's idiotic war. His colleague thought it said Weapons of Mass Destruction. Of course, like the good citizen, he called the FBI for someone LOOKING AT A SITE TITLED WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. First of all, that is ridiculous as it is. Viewing a site about WMD's means nothing. Absolutely nothing. The idiocy of this cannot be put into words.

Anyway, later that night, the FBI knocks on the guy's door, takes him into custody, interrogates him for many hours, etc.

The idiot who wasted the FBI's time: Got some sort of citizen's award for his heroic act.

The point is, you are naive to think that this country protects everyone's personal freedoms. If you're a foreign national (with Green Card over even citizenship), there is increased scrutiny.

I'm not saying that we're all being watched or tapped, but at least a few of the 20,000 people on these forums are. If even 5 are, then that is a significant percentage of the total, all things considered.

If you want an obvious example, look at the airport screening that the JD tried to get through Congress. O.K., fine, red flag people suspected of felonies, that makes sense. However, there were a bunch of other reasons to red flag, like suspicion of terrorism.

You know what could amount to suspicion of terrorism? You've got brown skin. You speak with a tinge of an accent. You miss your flight because the stupid lady at the counter doesn't know how to operate the computer. You get on her case and ask for her supervisor. You accost the supervisor and file a complaint. Watch out--next flight you take, they'll check all your bags. (Just a hypothetical example)

This country is not the great defender of civil liberties that it once was or pretended to be. It is much better than many, many, many other countries, but I think it has come to point that we can all sympathize, at least on some level, with our friend in Venezuela.

[tazo]

Originally posted by MrMacman
Yeah speaking on-telephone saying your gonna do something will be a no-no.



With my case, I'm 100% sure it is just being recorded and scanned and downloaded into a server farm out west.

:rolleyes:

Everytime I'm on the phone I say some gibberish like 'terriosmal-quedabushkillafganistantalibanIraqbomb'

To set off the red-flags... :cool:

I do the same ;)

Every conversation starts with
hey [name], killbushdownwithgovernmentelfelfelfelf :)

It's not paranoia. When Congress passes a blanket-act that allows the Justice Department and other enformcement agencies to pry into everythinng--even your library record--and to arrest people at-will with a suspension of the writ of habeas corpus, then I think there is a problem.

Well I guess you will have to do one of two things.

Stop checking out girls-gone-wild7 on dvd, or ignore the look from the librarian when she checks out "Terrorism for dumbies" for ya.

-tazo

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by tazo
I do the same ;)

Every conversation starts with
hey [name], killbushdownwithgovernmentelfelfelfelf :)



Well I guess you will have to do one of two things.

Stop checking out girls-gone-wild7 on dvd, or ignore the look from the librarian when she checks out "Terrorism for dumbies" for ya.

-tazo

lol. Funny tazo.

But seriously, the Patriot Act goes a little far. Here's an example. I was doing a research paper on Saddam Hussein two years ago. So, of course, I check out all these books about his regime and about the Middle East and conflicts there...When you check out 12 books about Hussein, maybe that throws up a red flag for someone. "Hey, you can't be reading about Hussein if you don't love him!" And then I get targeted. Obviously, this didn't happen (I hope :D ), but it's a possibility.

I think the problem with invasion of privacy is a bit more subtle than you give it credit for.

But you DO need to watch out about talking like that on the phone. Saying the world elf four times could really get you in trouble. ;)

[tazo]

Originally posted by themadchemist
lol. Funny tazo.

But seriously, the Patriot Act goes a little far. Here's an example. I was doing a research paper on Saddam Hussein two years ago. So, of course, I check out all these books about his regime and about the Middle East and conflicts there...When you check out 12 books about Hussein, maybe that throws up a red flag for someone. "Hey, you can't be reading about Hussein if you don't love him!" And then I get targeted. Obviously, this didn't happen (I hope :D ), but it's a possibility.

I think the problem with invasion of privacy is a bit more subtle than you give it credit for.

But you DO need to watch out about talking like that on the phone. Saying the world elf four times could really get you in trouble. ;)

Actually it would be referring to the ELF a greenpeace-esque pseudo-terrorist group.

The problem with invasion of privacy has been around since the beginning days of Echelon; people seem to believe that a lack of privacy began with the patriot act, which is wholly untrue.

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by tazo
Actually it would be referring to the ELF a greenpeace-esque pseudo-terrorist group.

The problem with invasion of privacy has been around since the beginning days of Echelon; people seem to believe that a lack of privacy began with the patriot act, which is wholly untrue.

You're correct in that. However, I think the real problem is that now the govt. flaunts it. Bush & Ashcroft are shameless in their betrayal of personal privacy.

And it is hard to contend with the fact that that privacy has been invaded FURTHER with the Patriot Act. Having clandestine protocols severely limits the extent to which the government can or would pursue fact-finding through invasive measures is inherently limiting because to use these methods too frequently would reveal what was meant to be secret. When the approach is direct, though, there is no need for secrecy or modesty, and these means may be used to the fullest and most blatant extent. And it is from this fact that the most danger arises.

[Powerbook G5]

"No...I didn't say Elf four times...I said Alf!"

[tazo]

Originally posted by themadchemist
You're correct in that. However, I think the real problem is that now the govt. flaunts it. Bush & Ashcroft are shameless in their betrayal of personal privacy.

And it is hard to contend with the fact that that privacy has been invaded FURTHER with the Patriot Act. Having clandestine protocols severely limits the extent to which the government can or would pursue fact-finding through invasive measures is inherently limiting because to use these methods too frequently would reveal what was meant to be secret. When the approach is direct, though, there is no need for secrecy or modesty, and these means may be used to the fullest and most blatant extent. And it is from this fact that the most danger arises.

I absolutely agree with you on the patriot act; I think for a government to say its citizen's privacy is paramount to other issues, and then implement the patriot act is not only hypocritical but a complete disregard for promise and privacy.

[Juventuz]

Originally posted by teabgs
it's not paranoid when they're actually doing it.

It's been going on for years, and now with the "patriot act" they can do whatever they want.

The un-told stories by the media speak the truth. There's a lot of messed up stuff thats happened in NYC these last few years which is apparently not covered by the media, it's all spread by word of mouth here.

Ahh yes, because word of mouth is the most accurate means to distribute information.

Listen, I know this stuff happens in the US. It's happened a lot longer than people realize. My comment was that it's funny because SOOO many people think it's happening to them, when in fact it's happening to SOOO many less people. mymemory's got a reason to believe his phone is being tapped. What reason do 90% of the people who think they're being tapped have?

[tazo]

Originally posted by Juventuz
Ahh yes, because word of mouth is the most accurate means to distribute information.

Listen, I know this stuff happens in the US. It's happened a lot longer than people realize. My comment was that it's funny because SOOO many people think it's happening to them, when in fact it's happening to SOOO many less people. mymemory's got a reason to believe his phone is being tapped. What reason do 90% of the people who think they're being tapped have?

Their phone systems have for years been more or less tapped. I dont understand why people thing Echelon is not something to worry about...

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by Juventuz
Ahh yes, because word of mouth is the most accurate means to distribute information.

Listen, I know this stuff happens in the US. It's happened a lot longer than people realize. My comment was that it's funny because SOOO many people think it's happening to them, when in fact it's happening to SOOO many less people. mymemory's got a reason to believe his phone is being tapped. What reason do 90% of the people who think they're being tapped have?

there's a difference between a physical tap and the data clearance system that is in place right now.

as others have said, there are systems that process phone data and look for red-flag word combinations.

Somebody can probably help clarify. Is this done on a random basis, done to all phone information, or done to a particular subset of the population?

I would imagine, though, that this sort of "tapping" is far more common than the physical wire-tapping that we're used to hearing about.

[tazo]

Originally posted by themadchemist


Somebody can probably help clarify. Is this done on a random basis, done to all phone information, or done to a particular subset of the population?

As far as I know, Echelon, the date surveillance program monitors all traffic going out in the "surveyed" areas....

[teabgs]

Originally posted by Juventuz
Ahh yes, because word of mouth is the most accurate means to distribute information.

Listen, I know this stuff happens in the US. It's happened a lot longer than people realize. My comment was that it's funny because SOOO many people think it's happening to them, when in fact it's happening to SOOO many less people. mymemory's got a reason to believe his phone is being tapped. What reason do 90% of the people who think they're being tapped have?

I have friends who have had some bogus stuff happen to them.

If you get arrested...or are caught on camera at a protest here your phone is prolly tapped.


I know word of mouth isnt the best....but it's better then the crap the media is spitting out right now.

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by teabgs
I have friends who have had some bogus stuff happen to them.

If you get arrested...or are caught on camera at a protest here your phone is prolly tapped.


I know word of mouth isnt the best....but it's better then the crap the media is spitting out right now.

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you

dude. they SHOULD get their phones tapped. protestors = saddam/osama supporters.... ie, terrorists.

these people aren't even americans! they have no rights as far as i'm concerned!

get with the times!

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
dude. they SHOULD get their phones tapped. protestors = saddam/osama supporters.... ie, terrorists.

these people aren't even americans! they have no rights as far as i'm concerned!

get with the times!

What are you talking about?!

These people shouldn't be tapped JUST BECAUSE they protest! They should be tortured, then burned at the stake, and served to George W. and John Ashcroft as a smorgasbord of anti-American dead meat!

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by themadchemist
What are you talking about?!

These people shouldn't be tapped JUST BECAUSE they protest! They should be tortured, then burned at the stake, and served to George W. and John Ashcroft as a smorgasbord of anti-American dead meat!


well duh. i was using understatement to emphasize that exact point. ;)

[OutThere]

I think that some people have good reasons to think that their phones are tapped and that they have been singled out as someone to watch. Some people have things that the government might be interested in monitoring them for. I'm not saying I do, but to the people who are talking about paranoid people: there are some that the govt has reasons to watch (bad reasons)

[Juventuz]

Here's (http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/te/6929/1.html) a great site that goes into what Echelon really is and how it works. It debunks a number of common misconceptions about the program.

[tazo]

Originally posted by Juventuz
Here's (http://www.heise.de/tp/english/inhalt/te/6929/1.html) a great site that goes into what Echelon really is and how it works. It debunks a number of common misconceptions about the program.

I linked there in my original post ;)

[Juventuz]

Originally posted by tazo
I linked there in my original post ;)

Just making sure you were paying attention ;)