NY Times: Apple’s Latest Product, the iBrick

[Black Belt]

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/28/more-on-apples-latest-product-the-ibrick/

[carfac]

The media storm is brewing. The iPhone is too sexy for the medioa to ignore, and when there is problems in iPhoneLand- any problems- you bet it is gonna be blown out of proportion in the media.

I predict Apple will not survive this smelling as rosy as it did with the iRebate.

[Mr. B]

all it needs to do is stop being so stubborn.

Stop actively going after customers that want to fiddle with the iphone that they own.

If they did that and unlocked a few iphone applications for the ipod touch then I'm pretty sure almost everyone would forgive them pretty fast.

But, no, steve jobs is a stubborn guy...

[scaredpoet]

The media storm is brewing.


What, a Ny Times article? The New York Times has had it in for the iPhone since the beginning. It panned it in reviews, and has even made up news and exagerated certain issues in order to generate bad press. With the likes of David Pogue working there, you're never going to get an unbiased technology story out of the Times.

I predict Apple will not survive this smelling as rosy as it did with the iRebate.

On the contrary, I predict Apple will do just fine. They gave fair warning about what the update would do. And frankly, this is what happens when you tamper with stuff. You take a risk doing this. Sometimes you win, sometimes not.

[OllyW]

With the likes of David Pogue working there, you're never going to get an unbiased technology story out of the Times.

What, you mean all the stories will be pro-Apple? (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_i_0/104-4908141-2971163?ie=UTF8&rs=&keywords=david%20pogue&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Adavid%20pogue%2Ci%3Astripbooks) :rolleyes:

[plumbingandtech]

I predict Apple will not survive this smelling as rosy as it did with the iRebate.

And I predict they will do just fine. The macrumors members market is a small small portion of the overall iphone market and most of the rest simply want to use their phone as inteneded as an ipod, web surfer, mail and phone tool.

Stop actively going after customers that want to fiddle with the iphone that they own.

They are updating the software which you don't own. You do understand that do you?

If they did that and unlocked a few iphone applications for the ipod touch then I'm pretty sure almost everyone would forgive them pretty fast.

Pretty sure?

And who would forgive them fast? Whiners on the Macrumors bored? You do know that the vast majority of iphone users simply don't care. You do know that posters on macrumors are not the entire market do you?

But, no, steve jobs is a stubborn guy...

You mean he's sooo stubborn he's adding features and security fixes, and observing ATT agreements, and adding optimizations to the iphone? Is that the kind of stubborn you are talking about?

[devman]

all it needs to do is stop being so stubborn.

Stop actively going after customers that want to fiddle with the iphone that they own.

If they did that and unlocked a few iphone applications for the ipod touch then I'm pretty sure almost everyone would forgive them pretty fast.


No they wouldn't. You'd still have a loud group that insist it can be used with any sim and any operator at any time.

[overcast]

Stop actively going after customers that want to fiddle with the iphone that they own.
.
YOU DO NOT OWN THE SOFTWARE. You own the plastic,metal, glass and SILICON, THAT IS IT.

[PDE]

It doesn't matter what the legal question is, or whether people feel that unlockers have no right do this. What matters is that hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, reading these articles will get a bad impression of Apple as a company that is deliberately bricking expensive phones to get back at customers who did what many people have done to their phones: add functionality and unlock it for use with other sims.

Bad publicity will overshadow the iphone from now on unless Apple somehow finds a way around this. Arrogant comments like the one quoted in the article of the Apple spokeswoman who said that users who have their phones bricked by apple will need to buy another phone are really nasty and will turn off many potential apple customers. Way to go Apple!

[OllyW]

It doesn't matter what the legal question is, or whether people feel that unlockers have no right do this. What matters is that hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, reading these articles will get a bad impression of Apple as a company that is deliberately bricking expensive phones to get back at customers who did what many people have done to their phones: add functionality and unlock it for use with other sims.

Bad publicity will overshadow the iphone from now on unless Apple somehow finds a way around this. Arrogant comments like the one quoted in the article of the Apple spokeswoman who said that users who have their phones bricked by apple will need to buy another phone are really nasty and will turn off many potential apple customers. Way to go Apple!

I agree. At worst, the firmware update should have just re-locked hacked phones to ATT.

[Sobe]

It doesn't matter what the legal question is, or whether people feel that unlockers have no right do this. What matters is that hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions, reading these articles will get a bad impression of Apple as a company that is deliberately bricking expensive phones to get back at customers who did what many people have done to their phones: add functionality and unlock it for use with other sims.

Bad publicity will overshadow the iphone from now on unless Apple somehow finds a way around this. Arrogant comments like the one quoted in the article of the Apple spokeswoman who said that users who have their phones bricked by apple will need to buy another phone are really nasty and will turn off many potential apple customers. Way to go Apple!

I think you are overestimating people's affection for hackers and underestimating people's affection for Apple.

Most people aren't going to care if someone wants to use their iPhone on tmobile or wants to play NES or use their own ringtones.

What they will hear is Apple won't let people hack their iPhone.

And the vast majority of people will have zero issue with that one.

[megfilmworks]

I am surrounded by iPhone users, most are the average owner. They have no concept what a hack is, and they don't care. I've seen estimates of 100,000 hacked iPhones. Even on this site, which is very hacker heavy, only about 25% seem to be hacking (looking at various polls here). As it becomes more problematic to hack and Apple keeps the new updates coming, then all that will be left is a very small group of hobbyists and low income world travelers.
IMHO, I say less than 2% by year's end will still be hacking and falling off fast.
Then maybe Apple can use their resources to service the 99% who are their real customer base instead of plugging holes.

[PDE]

I think you are overestimating people's affection for hackers and underestimating people's affection for Apple.

Most people aren't going to care if someone wants to use their iPhone on tmobile or wants to play NES or use their own ringtones.

What they will hear is Apple won't let people hack their iPhone.

And the vast majority of people will have zero issue with that one.

And I think you may be underestimating bad publicity. It's not about rational thought, but about feelings that come from bad publicity. Many people unlock their phones and add functionality through third party software - it's part of accepted practice and everyday life. People feel, rightfully, that it's their phone and they can do what they want with it. This kind of publicity gives the impression that Apple is a company that meddles in what you do with your phone and that is enough to turn customers off, especially when there are so many other phone manufacturers who don't do this.

The front page of one of the main Scandinavian newspapers ran an article today about the iphone bricking and I'm sure there will be many more to come about this issue. I don't think it's good for Apple and I'm sure they will realise that too adn try to address it. Image is EVERYTHING for Apple and this doesn't fit with their image.

We're not talking about hackers here - we're talking about ordinary, respectable people (lawyers, doctors, academics whatever) getting their phones permanently damaged because they wanted to add functionality. This is not hacking for the sake of damaging anything and that comes across in the article.

[Sobe]

And I think you may be underestimating bad publicity. It's not about rational thought, but about feelings that come from bad publicity. Many people unlock their phones and add functionality through third party software - it's part of accepted practice and everyday life. People feel, rightfully, that it's their phone and they can do what they want with it. This kind of publicity gives the impression that Apple is a company that meddles in what you do with your phone and that is enough to turn customers off, especially when there are so many other phone manufacturers who don't do this.

The front page of one of the main Scandinavian newspapers ran an article today about the iphone bricking and I'm sure there will be many more to come about this issue. I don't think it's good for Apple and I'm sure they will realise that too adn try to address it. Image is EVERYTHING for Apple and this doesn't fit with their image.

We're not talking about hackers here - we're talking about ordinary, respectable people (lawyers, doctors, academics whatever) getting their phones permanently damaged because they wanted to add functionality. This is not hacking for the sake of damaging anything and that comes across in the article.

By their own actions Apple has clearly stated that they do not want those unlocks or 3rd party applications on their platform.

Do you really think a company as media-conscious as Apple would simply forget what the public response would be?

We're talking about a company that, perhaps better than any other, markets its way into the hearts and minds of people all over the world.

Did you ever stop to consider that creating a secure platform free of 3rd party hacks or unlocks is their goal?

It elicits just as emotional a response from people who love the idea of the uniform iPhone.

Some people don't. That's fine. If they want to insist on using the iPhone instead of another phone that embraces their world view, I get the feeling that Apple is quite happy to alienate those customers.

Why? The 1.1.1 update says it all.

[megfilmworks]

We're not talking about hackers here - we're talking about ordinary, respectable people (lawyers, doctors, academics whatever) getting their phones permanently damaged because they wanted to add functionality. This is not hacking for the sake of damaging anything and that comes across in the article.It may be anecdotal, but I know a lot of lawyers and doctors who own iPhones and none have the time to hack their phone. That being said, I would love to see some legitimate apps; filemaker pro or numbers, calendar file support, and the usual, cut and paste, better search feature, etc.
Hopefully, Apple can slow down on protecting the iPhone from unauthorized use and then they can concentrate on the good stuff!!

[PDE]

By their own actions Apple has clearly stated that they do not want those unlocks or 3rd party applications on their platform.

Do you really think a company as media-conscious as Apple would simply forget what the public response would be?

We're talking about a company that, perhaps better than any other, markets its way into the hearts and minds of people all over the world.

Did you ever stop to consider that creating a secure platform free of 3rd party hacks or unlocks is their goal?

It elicits just as emotional a response from people who love the idea of the uniform iPhone.

Some people don't. That's fine. If they want to insist on using the iPhone instead of another phone that embraces their world view, I get the feeling that Apple is quite happy to alienate those customers.

Why? The 1.1.1 update says it all.

Neither of us truly knows the response to this publicity. However, I have often tried to sell the mac to friends who are PC users (many casual, non-hacking users) and I've often come across a prejudice against Apple based on perceptions of things being limited, locked and proprietary. We know this is not the case, but many people don't. These kinds of articles further perpetuate an image of Apple as a closed, limited/limiting and controlling company.

We'll see.

[sananda]

Neither of us truly knows the response to this publicity. However, I have often tried to sell the mac to friends who are PC users (many casual, non-hacking users) and I've often come across a prejudice against Apple based on perceptions of things being limited, locked and proprietary. We know this is not the case, but many people don't. These kinds of articles further perpetuate an image of Apple as a closed, limited/limiting and controlling company.

We'll see.

i think you make a good point. i frequently come across the incorrect assumption that mac aren't compatible. and this iphone which cannot run at any point in time on anything other than it's original network will not assist with that perception.

[Sobe]

Neither of us truly knows the response to this publicity. However, I have often tried to sell the mac to friends who are PC users (many casual, non-hacking users) and I've often come across a prejudice against Apple based on perceptions of things being limited, locked and proprietary. We know this is not the case, but many people don't. These kinds of articles further perpetuate an image of Apple as a closed, limited/limiting and controlling company.

We'll see.

The reason for my opinion is that Apple being closed and proprietary is nothing new.

The iPhone wasn't marketed as some wunder-swiss army-open source device. Much the opposite in fact.

Apple is playing to their strength by playing this card.

The problem, such as it is, is that the iPhone is the latest and greatest and therefore has a nice big fat target on its back from hackers.

The average user isn't going to care a wit, just like the average computer user won't care if they can't buy a MacBook Pro with Linux on it.

[jessica.]

I believe of all the hype and concern being voiced this one article (blog) is going to hurt ever so slightly.

[megfilmworks]

I agree with Sobe, but that is the point as well; Apple has always been a closed system in many ways. Used by musicians, artists, editors, etc. who need security and reliability.
Gates and company have been the hacker testbeds. I'd love to keep it that way...Hackers go MS and users go Apple.

[OllyW]

Negative publicity sticks.

I still hear people remark on how bad the battery life is on iPods after this (http://www.ipodsdirtysecret.com/).

[Chip NoVaMac]

No they wouldn't. You'd still have a loud group that insist it can be used with any sim and any operator at any time.

And that is not going to happen here in the US for the dear price AT&T paid to have the iPhone. I was willing to switch to AT&T after 10+ years with Sprint to go with the iPhone.

[Sbrocket]

I agree. At worst, the firmware update should have just re-locked hacked phones to ATT.

Why the hell should Apple be forced to work around their customers and make sure that new software updates are compatible with rogue software developed by people who go directly against what Apple is trying to do (prevent iPhone unlocking)? It makes no sense from any standpoint. All you people are doing in whining now that you tried to best Apple and lost out. Why was it not obvious to you that installing a new firmware update to a hacked product might cause problems with it?

All this media is akin to people claiming that Apple committed some huge atrocity against its customers because some group of people who tried to install OSX on a computer where the hardware's firmware had been deliberately tampered with bricked the computer. It makes absolutely no sense.

The iPhone is not an open development platform, and it should not be treated as such. Apple can't be held responsible for what people do with their own purchases.

[RosieO]

I think it is crazy all the negative things being said. Bottom line, if you do not like the way Apple does business then don't buy an iPhone. If you don't want to abide by what they want don't buy an iPhone. Up front you know what iPhones have to offer so it is your choice, take it or leave it. I like what iPhone has to offer to me. It suits my needs. If it didn't I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

[megfilmworks]

I think it is crazy all the negative things being said. Bottom line, if you do not like the way Apple does business then don't buy an iPhone. If you don't want to abide by what they want don't buy an iPhone. Up front you know what iPhones have to offer so it is your choice, take it or leave it. I like what iPhone has to offer to me. It suits my needs. If it didn't I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.I totally agree with Rosie, but does the Donald??

[PDE]

I think it is crazy all the negative things being said. Bottom line, if you do not like the way Apple does business then don't buy an iPhone. If you don't want to abide by what they want don't buy an iPhone. Up front you know what iPhones have to offer so it is your choice, take it or leave it. I like what iPhone has to offer to me. It suits my needs. If it didn't I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.

I think this is a counterproductive argument. Yes, we all have choices and we can make those choice freely, but only within the context and limitations which larger corporations create for their own benefit. Discussing this, and critiquing Apple for their practices is important, just like critiquing and questioning the world in general leads to changes and progress. If we always default to a 'take it or leave it' attitude, what do we gain and how do things change? I'm sure all of those here who are defending APple's choice would have been just as happy if Apple had sold their iphone unlocked to everybody? Then everybody would be happy and customers could choose the carrier they want based on what that carrier offers - things like visual voicemail, for example. Those who wanted extra software could add that, while those who like the way apple does things could just leave their phone the way they are. Everybody would win. Now look at the messs!

[Limeyness]

I think this is a counterproductive argument. Yes, we all have choices and we can make those choice freely, but only within the context and limitations which larger corporations create for their own benefit. Discussing this, and critiquing Apple for their practices is important, just like critiquing and questioning the world in general leads to changes and progress. If we always default to a 'take it or leave it' attitude, what do we gain and how do things change? I'm sure all of those here who are defending APple's choice would have been just as happy if Apple had sold their iphone unlocked to everybody? Then everybody would be happy and customers could choose the carrier they want based on what that carrier offers - things like visual voicemail, for example. Those who wanted extra software could add that, while those who like the way apple does things could just leave their phone the way they are. Everybody would win. Now look at the messs!

The only mess is for the people that didn't use the phone as intended, the rest of us have no mess.

[LizKat]

The media storm is brewing. The iPhone is too sexy for the medioa to ignore, and when there is problems in iPhoneLand- any problems- you bet it is gonna be blown out of proportion in the media.

I predict Apple will not survive this smelling as rosy as it did with the iRebate.

The media storm? You mean that blogger in the Times who took three shots at a piece about the Amazon store the other day and still doesn't have it right when comparing iTunes to Amazon or AAC to MP3 or... that guy? Sheesh!

A media storm is when some celeb flees rehab.

The stuff in the papers about the iPhone is not going to deter buyers who want an iPhone, and it's not going to convince anti-iPhone people to buy one, so it's basically like any newsprint, something you wrap fish in tomorrow.

[JimmyDreams]

It's the NY Times!!

Who read that rag either physically or on-line?:D

[carfac]

It's the NY Times!!

Who read that rag either physically or on-line?:D

NY Times today.... USA Today tomorrow, everyones local radio in the morning on Monday.

Not everyone out there may be hackers, but by Monday, everyone is gonna think that Apple is out destroying phones of people who bought the iPhone. That is what the average person will hear, and take out of this. (Yes, you and I knwo that may not be true... but like others have pointed out, most people are not technical, and do not know all the minutia. They will just accept the shortcut and think Apple is a bully)

[megfilmworks]

The media storm?
A media storm is when some celeb flees rehab.

Best quote today. Liz you are the bomb.:cool:

[OllyW]

Why the hell should Apple be forced to work around their customers and make sure that new software updates are compatible with rogue software developed by people who go directly against what Apple is trying to do (prevent iPhone unlocking)? It makes no sense from any standpoint. All you people are doing in whining now that you tried to best Apple and lost out. Why was it not obvious to you that installing a new firmware update to a hacked product might cause problems with it?

All this media is akin to people claiming that Apple committed some huge atrocity against its customers because some group of people who tried to install OSX on a computer where the hardware's firmware had been deliberately tampered with bricked the computer. It makes absolutely no sense.

The iPhone is not an open development platform, and it should not be treated as such. Apple can't be held responsible for what people do with their own purchases.

I haven't got a bloody iPhone. They don't sell them in my country yet ;)

I just thought that if Apple were so intent on having every iPhone user on ATT, it would be better to re-set the phone again so it will only work on that network.

[Sbrocket]

I just thought that if Apple were so intent on having every iPhone user on ATT, it would be better to re-set the phone again so it will only work on that network.

That may be true, but what that means is that Apple would need to waste more development resources (that could be used for finishing Leopard) on making sure that the update was "compatible" with the various unlocking methods out there. It doesn't make sense for Apple to do that. They issued a warning that unlocks might not be compatible with future firmware updates, which basically meant that they weren't gonna try to prevent you bricking your own phone, and people installed the update anyway. Now they're pissed. Sorry, but Apple can't protect against blind stupidity.

[OllyW]

That may be true, but what that means is that Apple would need to waste more development resources (that could be used for finishing Leopard) on making sure that the update was "compatible" with the various unlocking methods out there. It doesn't make sense for Apple to do that. They issued a warning that unlocks might not be compatible with future firmware updates, which basically meant that they weren't gonna try to prevent you bricking your own phone, and people installed the update anyway. Now they're pissed. Sorry, but Apple can't protect against blind stupidity.

I get the feeling you will be really, really upset if Apple does come up with a fix for the bricked iPhones. ;)

[Sbrocket]

I get the feeling you will be really, really upset if Apple does come up with a fix for the bricked iPhones. ;)

I have no problem with Apple fixing the bricked iPhones. It'd be great, in fact, because it would get everyone to quiet down for a while. But I don't think people should be in such an uproar that they tried to get around Apple and lost. I mean, who's fault is it that you (not you specifically, more the general sense) voluntarily installed an update...ignoring all warnings that it might cause permanent damage to you hardware after you had installed third-party software on a closed-development platform.

[Clix Pix]

I have absolutely NO sympathy for those who have hacked their phones, tried to play games with "unlocking," etc., etc.... So Apple's latest update "bricked" their iPhone? Tough noogies!!

The update went smoothly and flawlessly for me and my iPhone and I am happily continuing to use it without any problems. I am the customer/iPhone user for whom Apple is working, not someone who deliberately hacks into their device and tries to implement changes which are not part of the original code that Apple designed.

Hackers, you deserve what you get....

[Italchef]

I'd like to think of myself as an Apple fan but an average user. For me, to spend that kind of dosh on a state-of-the-art device only to hack into it, just doesn't gel. I love Apple's products and have found that if there is enough feedback requesting a certain change, they eventually get around to it. Itunes users wanted DRM free music and eventually Apple offered it. They do listen.
I say this in reference to 3rd party apps and not in relation to other carriers. Everyone knew the rules going in; you can't just change things mid-game. I don't necessarily agree with a locked device, but then again if I want an iPhone bad enough, who cares? Cell phones are all about the contract anyway, so why should an iPhone be any different?

Mick

[synth3tik]

I really don't see how a NYTimes blog is considered a media storm. Apple will do just fine. I will not recommend and iPhone to anyone anymore, but thats not because of the unlocking, 3rd party app things.

[EthanNixon]

This is my first post, I mainly just read the forums, but I need to say something.

I have not yet bought an iPhone, but I still plan to do so. As a new customer, and to have never owned anything Apple besides and iPod, I am not turned off at all by what Steve is doing with the iPhone. You bought the phone to use the internet/e-mail/phone services of the iPhone. If you bought it simply to hack it, then it is your own fault it is getting bricked. You are using the phone in ways it was not intended to do so. I have a good feeling Apple will release their own form of iChat, but I am not sure about the other 3rd party apps. As for the carrier hacking, this phone is exclusively for AT&T, if you bought it to use with another carrier, I believe you are breaching a contract from Apple. It is well known that AT&T and Apple are parters as of right now. Everything is clearly stated, and they even gave fair warning to people who have hacked their iPhones. As far as I am concerned, Steve Jobs has done nothing wrong.

[diamond.g]

I think it is no big deal. Like everything this will go away. As always I love reading peoples viewpoints on the issue though. Basically it is two sides. The if Apple does it it is okay side. But no one else can do it. (Which seems to go against how some of the best features were incorporated in a Mac...) And the side that says hey if Apple didn't come up with it and someone else did, great. Apple will eventually get around to adding that feature and everything will be all good. (Like how, from my understanding, a lot of features ended up in OS X)
I don't fall into either side, I used to tinker with every computer type item I owned. Now I just want those items to work. My phone works just fine and I am aware of the things I am missing (I came from a Treo). Would I like some added functionality? Sure, but I am not going to add it. I will patiently wait and see how Apple handles it, but I have a suspicion that we may see iPhone 2.0 before we get some of the things we want (if you go based on iPod history).

[Black Belt]

The bricking has nothing to do with any hacks or mods to the phone. The distribution of bricks is random to fresh and modded phones. The real problem is Apple's ongoing problem with software quality control. (Heck, just look at the ridiculous iTunes updates every other day) Apparently this update was rushed out without any adequate testing which is inexcusable and the act of amateurs. Apple should be held liable for every bricked phone, regardless of any irrelevant warning it gave, trying to excuse itself from blame.

And downplaying the groundswell is burying your head in the sand. Go ahead if you want.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/01/a-note-to-both-apple-and-iphone-customers-on-the-v1-1-1-update/

[awmazz]

I am surrounded by iPhone users, most are the average owner. They have no concept what a hack is, and they don't care.

That works both ways, not knowing or caring.

All that such potential iPhone customers are seeing and registering right now are the news headlines telling them their potential new cool phone will be turned into a $400 paperweight by Apple if they put the wrong SIM card in it. Or something like that. Maybe if they use it to visit the wrong website. They don't know. Or care. Whatever it is, it sounds real bad.

As you say, they don't know or care why, or even to whom it's happened. They just know now that it does happen, and it's not good. The message they're getting now is beware buying an iPhone.

[gceo]

Super tough to feel sorry for anyone that was warned AHEAD of time that the update would brick the phone.

AND, it's NOT a mandatory update. iTunes asks you if you want to do it.

So, we had a warning, and an option not to do it.... Hmmm...

[Sobe]

That works both ways, not knowing or caring.

All that such potential iPhone customers are seeing and registering right now are the news headlines telling them their potential new cool phone will be turned into a $400 paperweight by Apple if they put the wrong SIM card in it. Or something like that. Maybe if they use it to visit the wrong website. They don't know. Or care. Whatever it is, it sounds real bad.

As you say, they don't know or care why, or even to whom it's happened. They just know now that it does happen, and it's not good. The message they're getting now is beware buying an iPhone.

That misreading of the public's perception (if true) would last about 10 seconds until they asked anyone what the problem was, particularly if they asked someone at an Apple Store.

And if they actually had any interest in an iPhone, they probably would ask.

[lilnyc]

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/28/more-on-apples-latest-product-the-ibrick/

"The lucky [PATIENT] ones see a new icon for a wireless iTunes Music Store and a host of tweaks to the user interface. The unlucky ones own a shiny black piece of glass.

Many iPhone owners who unlocked their phones so they could use them with a wireless carrier other than AT&T, as well as those who simply installed application programs that were not authorized by apple, have found their phones unusable. "

Well freaking DUH.

I work for a major TV network, and our research shows that putting iPhone and Britney Spears in any news topic draws a lot of hits. I believe that's the root of this mess. Apple hailed the iPhone as ****** that doesn't stink. So any chance people get to point out what stinks, they jump on it. I take it with a grain of salt, especially considering the first 2 paragraphs that CLEARLY show that the "bricks" are a result of the hacking!!!