Timely advertising; Nokia poster hot off the press...

[mcdj]

Photo taken today, on 2nd Ave. in NYC. Now if we could only get Nokia to design stuff more like Apple does and get Apple to be as open minded as Nokia...

[Bernie-Mac]

ouch....nokia is seems is going full speed ahead at apple lately

[yoyo5280]

OUCH! Pooooor apple! :(


I have a love hate relationship with nokia.

[chrisdazzo]

I love Nokia's designs, but the only thing I really hate them for is not producing any CDMA phones that work with Sprint, etc. :mad: Otherwise, Nokia's phones are beautiful pieces of technology.

[yoyo5280]

I really want more Nokia phone is Japan! With softbank!

In america they were my favourite :)

[boss1]

Apple needs a good smack imo. The message is simple stop toying with and annoying and controlling your consumers with an iron fist.


(edit: I'm pretty sure my eyes may be messing with me, but those blue letters don't seem to share the same shadow/light with the creases on the black canvas they are sitting on. looks more like a slight transparency effect on the font. Photoshop?)

[ejrizo]

Apple needs a good smack imo. The message is simple stop toying with and annoying and controlling your consumers with an iron fist.


(edit: I'm pretty sure my eyes may be messing with me, but those blue letters don't seem to share the same shadow/light with the creases on the black canvas they are sitting on. looks more like a slight transparency effect on the font. Photoshop?)
yeah i believe to photoshop... good eye i zoomed in on the immage and you can see the pixels change around the letters and some of the images..

[Kadman]

I think this is a great idea. Although it's not too terribly high up on the clever scale, it does get the point across and pressure like this from the competition (along with criticism on other fronts) may ultimately take it's toll and hit home with Apple. I'm close to replacing the phones for my kids. I'm pretty sure they will be sporting Nokias now. lol

[miniConvert]

Nokia allow networks to SIM lock their handsets... isn't this a bit hypocritical?

[zap2]

Nokia allow networks to SIM lock their handsets... isn't this a bit hypocritical?

yes..but you can also buy Nokia unlocked...but if they truely believe phones should be unlocked, they wouldn't let any of there phones locked.


But yea, I don't think Nokia taking shots at Apple will make them unlock the iPhone

[sahnert]

(edit: I'm pretty sure my eyes may be messing with me, but those blue letters don't seem to share the same shadow/light with the creases on the black canvas they are sitting on. looks more like a slight transparency effect on the font. Photoshop?)

yeah i believe to photoshop... good eye i zoomed in on the immage and you can see the pixels change around the letters and some of the images..

I don't know if it is photoshop or not, but I went to the website and the campaign is indeed "open to anything."
link (http://www.nseries.com/index.html?l=campaigns,open#l=campaigns,open,landing)

[clonenode]

Apple needs a good smack imo. The message is simple stop toying with and annoying and controlling your consumers with an iron fist.

Some of you guys crack me up. Apple can make whatever kind of device they want. Just because you buy it as it is, doesn't mean they then have to change it to suit your needs. Who are they controlling?

[PDE]

This evening I went to Nokia's store in NYC to look for an iphone alternative. I'm fed up with the whole iphone/Apple/ATT BS crap and would like to get out all this.

I was going to check out the E61i but after playing with it for an hour there's NO way that I can ever move from my iphone to that User interface - it's a total mess, is slow to navigate, complicated to figure out and just plain user-hostile. The keyboard, which people have raved about, felt awful to me too. In terms of functionality, it beats the iphone in most respects, but without a sleek, smooth UI to take advantage, it's more trouble than it's worth.

[dangleheart]

Actually I like this. We are in for some entertaintment. Steve Job will see this and have to respond. Let us see what smart alec come back ad Apple comes up with.

Iphone is locked and guess what Nokia has 'No Key'... (Sorry :D)

[boss1]

Some of you guys crack me up. Apple can make whatever kind of device they want. Just because you buy it as it is, doesn't mean they then have to change it to suit your needs. Who are they controlling?

Exactly, in the same way the leader of Iran doesn't have to stop enriching uranium just because it suits my needs. Just because they're in their right to do or not do so doesn't mean it's the smartest thing to do.





I've seen a bunch of posts similar to yours all over these boards. Consumers feel frustrated and post their frustrations because of:

• Lack of what simple things could be on the phone
• Apple seems to spend more time, money and effort on crippling consumer creativity then addressing missing features

And what these poster's get in response is a bombardment of "Apple knows best, you signed the agreement that says you have no say, so deal with it".

No one is saying Apple is obligated. But the company's actions and inactions as of late are losing the hearts and minds of their core consumers, no matter how you look at it.

[Sobe]

But the company's actions and inactions as of late are losing the hearts and minds of their core consumers, no matter how you look at it.

I think it is quite obvious that the hearts and minds they are interested in keeping are the ones who have no interest in hacks or unlocks or those people who do.

I would suggest that those people are Apple's core customers, not those who are attracted to the open phone movement.

This advertisement just underscores that notion.

If you love hacks and unlocks and all those things, go with Nokia -- or something other than Apple.

They're quite willing to cater to that segment of consumers.

Apple, by their own actions, apparently is not.

[boss1]

Well in that regard Sobe you are correct ( in my opinion ) . And I'd like to make it clear that personally I don't care for unlocks or hacks. I use AT&T happily and no 3rd party, non apple software.


However, what I said in the post above that which you quoted applies to those that share my perspective also. Don't care for unlocking, don't care for hacks.

[iMacZealot]

The problem with unlocked phones is that people (Americans especially) don't know what they are.


Americans will only buy phones they hear about or find in the operator store. Most Americans also don't know what a SIM card is.

Apple probably would've sold the iPhone unlocked SIM-free if people understood that concept, but they don't, so they would've sold significantly less iPhones. Also, there probably would've been a lot of clueless Verizon, Sprint, or Alltel subscribers growing angry at the fact that they bought a phone that doesn't even work with their operator. Thus, I believe that Apple had no choice but to sell it though an operator in order for iPhone anticipation and sales to compare.

Nokia is trying to change people's ideas of phones by selling them unlocked and SIM-free, but it doesn't seem to be working. They've removed tons of their Experience stores, and probably because Americans just didn't understand it.



With that said, I love Nokia. They were my favorite mobile phone manufacturer until Apple came along with the iPhone. However, since the American cell market doesn't have the same phone philosophy as Nokia (and Europe for that matter), Nokia doesn't seem to care that much about our country, and it's hard to find one with the ever-so important 850 MHz band and a reputable place that sells them.

[CJD2112]

Exactly, in the same way the leader of Iran doesn't have to stop enriching uranium just because it suits my needs. Just because they're in their right to do or not do so doesn't mean it's the smartest thing to do.





I've seen a bunch of posts similar to yours all over these boards. Consumers feel frustrated and post their frustrations because of:

• Lack of what simple things could be on the phone
• Apple seems to spend more time, money and effort on crippling consumer creativity then addressing missing features

And what these poster's get in response is a bombardment of "Apple knows best, you signed the agreement that says you have no say, so deal with it".

No one is saying Apple is obligated. But the company's actions and inactions as of late are losing the hearts and minds of their core consumers, no matter how you look at it.

AMEN. AMEN. AMEN! I swear to GOD, if one more Apple fanATIC says "Apple is Lord, pay homage to Apple, you got what you signed up for" I'll ATT reach and slap them. I'm sorry, I love Apple products as much as the next guy on here and have for well over 10 years, but the recent OCD of Jobs and the controlling nature of the company is killing its rep. It may not effect them today or tomorrow, but eventually it WILL effect them negatively.

[CJD2112]

I think it is quite obvious that the hearts and minds they are interested in keeping are the ones who have no interest in hacks or unlocks or those people who do.

I would suggest that those people are Apple's core customers, not those who are attracted to the open phone movement.

This advertisement just underscores that notion.

If you love hacks and unlocks and all those things, go with Nokia -- or something other than Apple.

They're quite willing to cater to that segment of consumers.

Apple, by their own actions, apparently is not.

Not true. I've been a core consumer for Apple, and have numerous friends who are exclusively Apple computer and product owners, and we have all hacked our iPhones for third party app's, graphics and ringtones. Just because the average user is misinformed doesn't mean they wouldn't want to use an open device once they have been informed. The difference being knowing that the device can do such things.

[emotion]

Interesting campaign. Hopefully Apple will be gauging the reaction to the 1.1.1 update.

I'm also hoping that Apple's recent strategy will result in an SDK and 3rd party apps. I'm optimistic like that.

Think of all the apps you could sell through iTMS then Apple. All that lovely money...yes MONEY (that should do it :D).

[weaverra]

Technically Apple can make any product any way they want. You the consumer vote by buying or not buying the product. Why didn't everybody who knew before the iPhone was released wasn't going to be friendly to 3rd party apps and AT&T exclusive only buy it anyway and then complain about Apple being this big meany? If you don't like the product then don't buy it.

[plumbingandtech]

I'm going to do a poster against Nokia. It will be the same look but have a cow in silhouette instead of a lock.

tag line:

Phones should not have the interface of a cow's behind.

[megfilmworks]

Hopefully all the hackers will jump on the Nokia bandwagon and leave the iPhone to the core customer who needs a stable platform and is too busy to worry about hacks etc.

[kunaalarria]

Hopefully all the hackers will jump on the Nokia bandwagon and leave the iPhone to the core customer who needs a stable platform and is too busy to worry about hacks etc.

Hackers don't need to jump on that bandwagon...Nokia will unlock the phones themselves for you...and theres thousands of apps on nokias because their OS is open

I love the campaign, being a strictly Nokia user until a couple weeks ago to switch for the iphone. Apple should let people control their own devices.
Can't wait for Steve JObs reply :D

[ogee]

(edit: I'm pretty sure my eyes may be messing with me, but those blue letters don't seem to share the same shadow/light with the creases on the black canvas they are sitting on. looks more like a slight transparency effect on the font. Photoshop?)


Looks like it, but if you look at Nokias site, http://www.nseries.com/index.html?l=campaigns,open#l=campaigns,open,landing maybe not.

[propynyl]

Exactly, in the same way the leader of Iran doesn't have to stop enriching uranium just because it suits my needs. Just because they're in their right to do or not do so doesn't mean it's the smartest thing to do.

I've seen a bunch of posts similar to yours all over these boards. Consumers feel frustrated and post their frustrations because of:

• Lack of what simple things could be on the phone
• Apple seems to spend more time, money and effort on crippling consumer creativity then addressing missing features

And what these poster's get in response is a bombardment of "Apple knows best, you signed the agreement that says you have no say, so deal with it".

No one is saying Apple is obligated. But the company's actions and inactions as of late are losing the hearts and minds of their core consumers, no matter how you look at it.

This is one of the most intelligent, eloquent, and well-crafted posts I have seen on these boards. I feel exactly the same way about both Apple, and the emotional, knee-jerk arguments floating around on these iPhone-related boards.

Well done.

-propynyl

[Cybergypsy]

The problem with unlocked phones is that people (Americans especially) don't know what they are.


Americans will only buy phones they hear about or find in the operator store. Most Americans also don't know what a SIM card is.

Apple probably would've sold the iPhone unlocked SIM-free if people understood that concept, but they don't, so they would've sold significantly less iPhones. Also, there probably would've been a lot of clueless Verizon, Sprint, or Alltel subscribers growing angry at the fact that they bought a phone that doesn't even work with their operator. Thus, I believe that Apple had no choice but to sell it though an operator in order for iPhone anticipation and sales to compare.

Nokia is trying to change people's ideas of phones by selling them unlocked and SIM-free, but it doesn't seem to be working. They've removed tons of their Experience stores, and probably because Americans just didn't understand it.



With that said, I love Nokia. They were my favorite mobile phone manufacturer until Apple came along with the iPhone. However, since the American cell market doesn't have the same phone philosophy as Nokia (and Europe for that matter), Nokia doesn't seem to care that much about our country, and it's hard to find one with the ever-so important 850 MHz band and a reputable place that sells them.

Not true, I buy most of my phones in Japan...and look for unlocked ones only.....

[megfilmworks]

Boss's post is well crafted and eloquent, too bad its wrong.
The core iPhone buyer doesn't care about hacking and may not even know what a sim chip is. Even on this site, which has a large percentage of hackers, around 80% say they would buy the iPhone today even with all the complaints, etc. Sounds like the core is speaking and Apple is hearing.

[boss1]

Boss's post is well crafted and eloquent, too bad its wrong.
The core iPhone buyer doesn't care about hacking and may not even know what a sim chip is. Even on this site, which has a large percentage of hackers, around 80% say they would buy the iPhone today even with all the complaints, etc. Sounds like the core is speaking and Apple is hearing.

In the same way the core of Astronauts on the planet would probably still choose to fly with NASA rather than take a chance on shuttle crafted by some lesser effective/funded country. That doesn't mean Astronauts at NASA should shut up about their needs and not demand the very best.

[ogee]

...Even on this site, which has a large percentage of hackers, around 80% say they would buy the iPhone today even with all the complaints, etc. Sounds like the core is speaking and Apple is hearing.

As I post its actually 76% of those who responded, which in turn is 99 out of 112960 registered users, so I would not really call the results representative :D

However, I agree that a large percentage of purchasers would not hack the phone. That is not the same as them not wanting the ability to add applications.

[iMacZealot]

Not true, I buy most of my phones in Japan...and look for unlocked ones only.....

Well, that's just dandy for you, but I don't have the time to jet off to Narita just to buy an unlocked Nokia.

[megfilmworks]

In the same way the core of Astronauts on the planet would probably still choose to fly with NASA rather than take a chance on shuttle crafted by some lesser effective/funded country. That doesn't mean Astronauts at NASA should shut up about their needs and not demand the very best.

I agree, if the comments and suggestions are constructive (which many are) and not rants against "the man".

[wescravn]

I read your posts, and all I can say is this!

SIMPLE:

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD AT&T SERVICE AND NEED TO HACK YOUR IPHONE TOO BAD, GO TO ANOTHER CARRIER. TMOBILE WILL BE HAPPY TO TAKE YOU. GET YOUR NOKIA PHONE AND HAVE A GOOD LIFE.

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE IPHONE OR WANT CUSTOM HACKS STOP COMPLAINING BUY A DIFFERENT PHONE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE APPLE'S POLICIES....GO BY ANOTHER VENDORS

BASICS 101

[megfilmworks]

Good post Mr Craven, now sheath that chainsaw!!

[rnizlek]

I read your posts, and all I can say is this!

SIMPLE:

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD AT&T SERVICE AND NEED TO HACK YOUR IPHONE TOO BAD, GO TO ANOTHER CARRIER. TMOBILE WILL BE HAPPY TO TAKE YOU. GET YOUR NOKIA PHONE AND HAVE A GOOD LIFE.

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE IPHONE OR WANT CUSTOM HACKS STOP COMPLAINING BUY A DIFFERENT PHONE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE APPLE'S POLICIES....GO BY ANOTHER VENDORS

BASICS 101

Well, what about me? I'm willing to pay for AT&T service, and I'll put up with Apple's locking down of the iPhone (though I don't much like it). But I still can't have one. Why? Because I live in Vermont, and Cingular just doesn't want to do business here. There are, actually, some legitimate reasons on unlock iPhones, beyond personal preference to do so. Mine is one of them.

[wescravn]

Talk to cingular then, apple doesn't control coverage. If apple doesn't want to unlock it other providers, except that, and move on.:)


Well, what about me? I'm willing to pay for AT&T service, and I'll put up with Apple's locking down of the iPhone (though I don't much like it). But I still can't have one. Why? Because I live in Vermont, and Cingular just doesn't want to do business here. There are, actually, some legitimate reasons on unlock iPhones, beyond personal preference to do so. Mine is one of them.

[boss1]

I read your posts, and all I can say is this!

SIMPLE:

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD AT&T SERVICE AND NEED TO HACK YOUR IPHONE TOO BAD, GO TO ANOTHER CARRIER. TMOBILE WILL BE HAPPY TO TAKE YOU. GET YOUR NOKIA PHONE AND HAVE A GOOD LIFE.

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE IPHONE OR WANT CUSTOM HACKS STOP COMPLAINING BUY A DIFFERENT PHONE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE APPLE'S POLICIES....GO BY ANOTHER VENDORS

BASICS 101

Well thank god for your post. I'm sure hundreds of iPhone owners reading these boards including myself were spinning in circles wondering what to do until you posted your simple solution for us. I think i'm going to rebox my iPhone and return it now that I have seen the easy, simple, and logical solution you imply.

/end sarcasm

[Cleverboy]

OPEN TO ANYTHING
We believe the best devices have no limits. That's why we've left the Nokia Nseries open. Open to applications. Open to widgets. Open to anything. So go ahead and load it up. What it does is up to you.

N95 - N95 8GB - N81 - N81 8 GB - Nokia N800
I'd really like to be impressed. I'm applauding Nokia for taking these initiatives about the iPhone and being very very non-combative when commenting publically. It's great. That said, look at this press page:
http://www.nseries.com/index.html?l=campaigns,open#l=news,n95_8gb

They're trying to do quotes, and the words are all run together. It's pathetic. I caught myself staring at the page, trying to understand what was happening, before I realized they'd screwed it up. Meanwhile, Apple is running rings around everyone in how to successfully show off a product very very well (online & offline).
Taking the article from Ars (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070829-nokia-announces-four-new-phones-music-and-gaming-services.html) that they chose to highlight, its a bit disturbing, because the conclusion sounds like everything I'd avoid in a solution:
Currently, Nokia offers a touchscreen in a few of its devices such as the N770 and N800, which Ars reviewed in February. However, both of these devices are quite bulky and aren't really replacements for mobile phones at all. Kallasvuo told the audience that we can expect touchscreen devices "in the next year," and showed a demo of what was to come.
The Nokia phone shown in the video looked similar to a Nokia N81, except it had a totally revamped UI which allowed the user to click both directions, and scroll in an iPod-wheel fashion. Pictures were displayed in landscape mode and could be browsed with the swipe of a finger, much like on the iPhone.

While the "fourth screen" seems exciting, it's hard to predict how popular the end result will be. The tracks in Nokia's music store are protected by DRM and cost slightly more than other outlets, and the PC streaming function doesn't seem to be too attractive. Games are on the expensive side, and the N-Gage-capable phones will cost you an arm and a leg and possibly one of the smaller organs. Yikes. And then there's this:
In London, Nokia's president and CEO, Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo, also displayed the phone's ability to play video on a television by hooking it up to the big screen using a TV-out cable. The N95 is priced at a sky-high €560, or approximately $764, somehow managing the impossible: making the iPhone look like a bargain.And, the iPhone being $399 now and TV-out back in full effect, makes Nokia look a bit silly, getting comfortable with its uber-price points.

~ CB

[wescravn]

I'm happy i was able to impart some clarity and wisdom for your benefit :D


Well thank god for your post. I'm sure hundreds of iPhone owners reading these boards including myself were spinning in circles wondering what to do until you posted your simple solution for us. I think i'm going to rebox my iPhone and return it now that I have seen the easy, simple, and logical solution you imply.

/end sarcasm

[Hopstretch]

Hopefully all the hackers will jump on the Nokia bandwagon and leave the iPhone to the core customer who needs a stable platform and is too busy to worry about hacks etc.
Right. Because me hacking my phone clearly destabilizes yours. Aren't you too busy to be posting in this thread anyway?

[rlreif]

I read your posts, and all I can say is this!

SIMPLE:

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD AT&T SERVICE AND NEED TO HACK YOUR IPHONE TOO BAD, GO TO ANOTHER CARRIER. TMOBILE WILL BE HAPPY TO TAKE YOU. GET YOUR NOKIA PHONE AND HAVE A GOOD LIFE.

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE IPHONE OR WANT CUSTOM HACKS STOP COMPLAINING BUY A DIFFERENT PHONE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE APPLE'S POLICIES....GO BY ANOTHER VENDORS

BASICS 101

Hi,
welcome to the internet!
just a tip: writing in all caps means you are yelling, and doesn't make people appreciate your points any better, and makes you seem abrasive, just like yelling in real life

[Sobe]

Hi,
welcome to the internet!
just a tip: writing in all caps means you are yelling, and doesn't make people appreciate your points any better, and makes you seem abrasive, just like yelling in real life

yes, the real skill is in seeming abrasive entirely in lowercase!

[zub3qin]

I read your posts, and all I can say is this!

SIMPLE:

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD AT&T SERVICE AND NEED TO HACK YOUR IPHONE TOO BAD, GO TO ANOTHER CARRIER. TMOBILE WILL BE HAPPY TO TAKE YOU. GET YOUR NOKIA PHONE AND HAVE A GOOD LIFE.

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE IPHONE OR WANT CUSTOM HACKS STOP COMPLAINING BUY A DIFFERENT PHONE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE APPLE'S POLICIES....GO BY ANOTHER VENDORS

BASICS 101


I can afford an iPhone. I can afford 10 iPhones. I want to have more widgets and apps. I could care less if Apple releases them or if a third party does. But if Apple can't make them because they are preoccupied or don't have the resources because they have spread themselves too thin, I see no reason for them to prevent me from getting the apps I want from another source. It seems more like sour grapes than anything else.

[phytonix]

The problem with unlocked phones is that people (Americans especially) don't know what they are.


Exactly. I sold an unlocked Nokia today locally because I replaced it with an Alcatel. The guy who bought it said he is buying it for a friend, but he has no idea what is SIM card nor what is unlocked.

[winterspan]

I read your posts, and all I can say is this!
SIMPLE:
IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD AT&T SERVICE AND NEED TO HACK YOUR IPHONE TOO BAD, GO TO ANOTHER CARRIER. TMOBILE WILL BE HAPPY TO TAKE YOU. GET YOUR NOKIA PHONE AND HAVE A GOOD LIFE.


First of all, most of the unlockers of the iPhone are doing it not because they are unable to afford AT&Ts rate plan, but because they either live abroad, travel abroad frequently, or are in an existing contract with a different provider (T-Mobile). And yes, most of them are "going" to another carrier. They are just taking their iPhone with them. :eek:


IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE IPHONE OR WANT CUSTOM HACKS STOP COMPLAINING BUY A DIFFERENT PHONE.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE APPLE'S POLICIES....GO BY ANOTHER VENDORS


"If you can't afford the iphone" --> What does adding third party applications to or unlocking an iPhone have to do with being able to afford it? Obviously if people are modifying an iPhone then they had the ability to afford it in the first place.

If customers don't agree with Apple's policies, they are not forced to
"go by [sic] another vendors".

They do, however, have two forms of recourse:

1) On a practical level, If they want an iPhone with certain features, they are going to have to look to the hacking community.

2) They have the right to make their opinions and disagreements known to Apple and also the community on the forums as long as it is the topic of discussion.

BTW, When did you get the authority to tell other people what to do?
If you want to contribute to the topic of discussion, please stop with the unintelligible, half-baked lecturing.

Is the bold text and capitalization supposed to makeup for the flawed reasoning and poor articulation?


For everyone else: Why does it seem like many are so quick to take sides with Apple's legal team and their "user agreement"? Does it make them feel all warm inside because they get to be the antagonist?

[zub3qin]

For everyone else: Why does it seem like many are so quick to take sides with Apple's legal team and their "user agreement"? Does it make them feel all warm inside because they get to be the antagonist?

Having been a prior Windows user, and a recent Mac OS convert (6 mos ago), I have noticed that there is a weird attitude among a large number (or maybe small vocal group) of Mac fans... That Apple can do no wrong. That Apple has the most advanced the products.

Both are incorrect. Apple is slow to adopt a lot of technology (why is my Treo better than the iPhone in many ways? I had Google Maps, 3G web access, better email, mp3 player, video playback including avi, wmv, photos, etc... nearly 2 YEARS ago.) Apple perfected the user interface, but iPhone doesn't have all the functionality- or even 3G for that matter.

If the iPhone was made by Nokia or Palm, trust me, all the Apple zealots would be criticizing it.

iPhone is great. But it should be better, and people shouldn't be embarassed to say that.

[Arcus]

The problem with unlocked phones is that people (Americans especially) don't know what they are.


Americans will only buy phones they hear about or find in the operator store. Most Americans also don't know what a SIM card is.

Apple probably would've sold the iPhone unlocked SIM-free if people understood that concept, but they don't, so they would've sold significantly less iPhones. Also, there probably would've been a lot of clueless Verizon, Sprint, or Alltel subscribers growing angry at the fact that they bought a phone that doesn't even work with their operator. Thus, I believe that Apple had no choice but to sell it though an operator in order for iPhone anticipation and sales to compare.

Nokia is trying to change people's ideas of phones by selling them unlocked and SIM-free, but it doesn't seem to be working. They've removed tons of their Experience stores, and probably because Americans just didn't understand it.



With that said, I love Nokia. They were my favorite mobile phone manufacturer until Apple came along with the iPhone. However, since the American cell market doesn't have the same phone philosophy as Nokia (and Europe for that matter), Nokia doesn't seem to care that much about our country, and it's hard to find one with the ever-so important 850 MHz band and a reputable place that sells them.

Oh this is garbage. Its not the we dont know what they are. Take the iPhone for instance. Wow you can unlock it to go to ...ummm....T Mobile, who in my area is just as bad as ATnT . Its not that we dont know what they are, its that we dont have that many choices even if we do.

[iMacZealot]

Oh this is garbage. Its not the we dont know what they are. Take the iPhone for instance. Wow you can unlock it to go to ...ummm....T Mobile, who in my area is just as bad as ATnT . Its not that we dont know what they are, its that we dont have that many choices even if we do.

You may, but most of the nation doesn't. I'm willing to bet that just about everybody on this website knows what GSM, a SIM card, and an unlocked phone are, but the general American public (or average joe if you will) doesn't.

[spydr]

yeah i believe to photoshop... good eye i zoomed in on the immage and you can see the pixels change around the letters and some of the images..

mmm...I agree with the printed matter not sharing the texture. Fishy!

[mcdj]

mmm...I agree with the printed matter not sharing the texture. Fishy!
I haven't bothered addressing the photoshop accusations til now, but have you doubters even gone to the URL on the flippin' poster?? Do I need to post the ORIGINAL .CR2 file from my Canon 5D? What would I stand to gain from faking this anyway?

[HiRez]

Unlocking and opening the phone can dramatically increase the difficulty and expense for Apple of supporting the iPhone (or any such piece of hardware). If these applications are all interacting and mucking about with the same files as Apple's apps, when something goes wrong the number of possibilities of what's causing it goes up exponentially, and what the non-Apple apps are doing and how they're doing it are not known to Apple. If someone for example gets all their photos deleted, whose fault is it now? Not to mention that people will be upset when Apple's updates break or cause incompatibilities with 3rd-party apps. And they'll be mad at Apple, not the 3rd party.

[mcdj]

Unlocking and opening the phone can dramatically increase the difficulty and expense for Apple of supporting the iPhone (or any such piece of hardware). If these applications are all interacting and mucking about with the same files as Apple's apps, when something goes wrong the number of possibilities of what's causing it goes up exponentially, and what the non-Apple apps are doing and how they're doing it are not known to Apple. If someone for example gets all their photos deleted, whose fault is it now? Not to mention that people will be upset when Apple's updates break or cause incompatibilities with 3rd-party apps. And they'll be mad at Apple, not the 3rd party.

So how has Nokia managed to be the largest cell manufacturer in the world if all this is true?

[Evangelion]

Nokia allow networks to SIM lock their handsets... isn't this a bit hypocritical?

No, since you can get those phones unlocked as well. Nokia really has two sets of customers when it comes to phones: operators and end-users. And Nokia doesn't limit what their customers want to do with their phones. And that includes the operators. Don't like it? Then buy an unlocked Nokia.

Remember: This ad is about Nokia talking to people, not operator talking to people. If operator wants to lock the phone, how exactly is that Nokias fault?

[iMacZealot]

No, since you can get those phones unlocked as well. Nokia really has two sets of customers when it comes to phones: operators and end-users. And Nokia doesn't limit what their customers want to do with their phones. And that includes the operators. Don't like it? Then buy an unlocked Nokia.

Remember: This ad is about Nokia talking to people, not operator talking to people. If operator wants to lock the phone, how exactly is that Nokias fault?

>Not all Nokias that Nokia sells through operators are available on their website SIM-free and unlocked.
>The cheapest phone on their website is $199.
>If Nokia didn't like operators paying them loads of money to stick their (the operators') logos and software on it, lock it to their network, subsidise it, and sell it with a two year contract, then Nokia could stop selling them their phones in the first place. However, they seem to be okay with the castration of their phones considering that they've been selling them in this country under this process for probably nearly two decades.

[HiRez]

So how has Nokia managed to be the largest cell manufacturer in the world if all this is true?
GM was once the largest car manufacturer, McDonald's sold more food to people than anyone else, Safeway the largest grocery chain, etc. I'm sure you see the point. Do you know anyone who truly loves using their Nokia phone? I've owned 3 Nokias. For making phone calls, they did the job. For anything else, they were torture to use. They were disposable and forgettable.

Basically, Nokia doesn't give a crap about your user experience, it's not at all a priority for them, and they're not going to help you if you modify their phone. For Apple it is different because the phone is all about the user experience. If that goes badly, you have something people aren't going to pay hundreds of dollars for.

[magic]

You know, I am really hopping mad that Apple is perpetrating this sham of selling us things that we can't unlock! I've bought every generation of iPod they've released, and every single one is *locked down*! It's infuriating! I can't install any widgets, or third party apps at all! Where's the SDK?!? I've been waiting for six long years!

And, while we're at it, it is an insult to commerce and the American way that Apple will not replace my iPhone if I use it underwater and it shorts out! WTF! If I paid my hard-earned $600 like everyone else, I expect to be able to use it how *I* want. Steve Jobs and all his minions can't tell me what I can and can't do with it! That is immoral and wrong. Why won't the genius bar goons just swap out my shorted out iPhone for a brand new one?!

They waste all of this time adding features for free to my iPhone, and yet they still won't take the time to make it possible for me to toast my bread in the morning with it! I'd come up with a way to do it myself, but I have this *sinking* feeling that getting jam in the ports will *probably* "violate my warranty" -- that's their lame excuse for all the poor customer service nowadays.

Whatever happened to quality companies, anyway? I can't believe they forced me to buy this thing that doesn't even do what I want! The least they could do is put out a website or a box or a warning. Sheesh.

[iMacZealot]

You know, I am really hopping mad that Apple is perpetrating this sham of selling us things that we can't unlock! I've bought every generation of iPod they've released, and every single one is *locked down*! It's infuriating! I can't install any widgets, or third party apps at all! Where's the SDK?!? I've been waiting for six long years!

And, while we're at it, it is an insult to commerce and the American way that Apple will not replace my iPhone if I use it underwater and it shorts out! WTF! If I paid my hard-earned $600 like everyone else, I expect to be able to use it how *I* want. Steve Jobs and all his minions can't tell me what I can and can't do with it! That is immoral and wrong. Why won't the genius bar goons just swap out my shorted out iPhone for a brand new one?!

They waste all of this time adding features for free to my iPhone, and yet they still won't take the time to make it possible for me to toast my bread in the morning with it! I'd come up with a way to do it myself, but I have this *sinking* feeling that getting jam in the ports will *probably* "violate my warranty" -- that's their lame excuse for all the poor customer service nowadays.

Whatever happened to quality companies, anyway? I can't believe they forced me to buy this thing that doesn't even do what I want! The least they could do is put out a website or a box or a warning. Sheesh.

Umm, I don't think SJ held you at gunpoint while you forked over six benjamins.

And Apple isn't responsible for you forgetting to remove your $600 phone "that you were forced to purchase" from your swimsuit.

[magic]

(Umm, thanks for the sympathies iMacZealot... but that post was sarcasm.)

[iMacZealot]

(Umm, thanks for the sympathies iMacZealot... but that post was sarcasm.)

Sarcasm works better when it's shorter...

MUCH shorter...my God, how long did you spend writing that?

[OllyW]

Sarcasm works better when it's shorter...

MUCH shorter...my God, how long did you spend writing that?

Didn't the toast and jam section arouse any suspicions :D

[iMacZealot]

Didn't the toast and jam section arouse any suspicions :D

No, because sarcasm works better when shorter, and I just glanced over it.

Also, (at least the first half of it) sounded like some of the complaints I've read! :eek:

[princigalli]

One would think Steve Jobs learned from almost killing Apple in the 90s. After being fired he had time to think and the best of his genius was working again. Now, with success and increasing arrogance, Steve Jobs is starting to make the exact same mistakes from the past. I have been a core Apple user for a long time, but will not get an IPhone. When I pay for a phone then it becomes my phone and I should be able to use it anyway I like. I have no time to play games with Apple just in the hope of being able to keep my operator or running my apps. And this type of attitude should never be encouraged.

[epicwelshman]

No, because sarcasm works better when shorter, and I just glanced over it.

Also, (at least the first half of it) sounded like some of the complaints I've read! :eek:

Haha, the first few lines of Magic's "rant" almost convinced me, but then the swimsuit and toast arguments were a little fishy :D

And sarcasm doesn't always work better if it's shorter.

[epicwelshman]

One would think Steve Jobs learned from almost killing Apple in the 90s. After being fired he had time to think and the best of his genius was working again. Now, with success and increasing arrogance, Steve Jobs is starting to make the exact same mistakes from the past. I have been a core Apple user for a long time, but will not get an IPhone. When I pay for a phone then it becomes my phone and I should be able to use it anyway I like. I have no time to play games with Apple just in the hope of being able to keep my operator or running my apps. And this type of attitude should never be encouraged.

Actually Steve's been like this forever. He doesn't like user expandability, and honestly, I can see why. As Mac users we pride ourselves on the stability of our computers. A big reason for that is because Apple knows more or less exactly what kind of hardware their software is running on, so we don't get conflicts like the PC folks do. The original Macintosh was hardly expandable. The original iMac wasn't expandable. The current MacBook is one of Apple's most expandable computers, and that's only RAM and HDD replacement.

Point is, Apple wants their products to work exactly as advertised, and as much fun as friggin' around with gadgets may be to some people, it does decrease stability.

There was fair warning with the iPhone. Everybody knew it was locked to AT&T, and there were never any promises regarding compatibility of 3rd party apps. Apple is in this business to make money. Their deal with AT&T makes both parties rich. We see Apple as this friendly computer company who loves their loyal customers and will do anything for them. Apple's better than most, but they're still a business, and they really don't care what you have to say.

[needthephone]

As a long term PC user who has willy nillingly dowloaded anything and everything and paid the price of viruses, major computer crashes, inconvenience, slow response and stress I am willing to put up with limited applications if I know what I put on will work, won't steal my credit card details or my identity!

Phone viruses are becoming more and more common and could potentially be more disruptive to the unsuspecting user.

If I was apple I would counter with this tag line

" A phone open to everything is open to viruses and crashes"

I want more applications but they should be controlled so the phones integrity and security is not put at risk

[ScubaDuc]

I read your posts, and all I can say is this!

SIMPLE:

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD AT&T SERVICE AND NEED TO HACK YOUR IPHONE TOO BAD, GO TO ANOTHER CARRIER. TMOBILE WILL BE HAPPY TO TAKE YOU. GET YOUR NOKIA PHONE AND HAVE A GOOD LIFE.

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE IPHONE OR WANT CUSTOM HACKS STOP COMPLAINING BUY A DIFFERENT PHONE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE APPLE'S POLICIES....GO BY ANOTHER VENDORS

BASICS 101

I can afford an Apple phone with the AT&T deal (would be proximus in my case) but the fact it is locked is a deal killer for me because I have a couple of different SIMs I use when I travel. I can't install VoiP software or add GPS maps on an SD and a BT module. Same thing for the iPod touch. It is crippled without BT and a microphones for notes.

And indeed I did not buy either one but a regular iPod classic (size matters) and decided to wait for the Nokia stuff since their "iPhone" look alike will be out next year.... fully unlocked

And no, I don't like Apple policies and I do what I want with their products... including modding my Mac Mini but one of these days, they are going to get a giant suit from the EU about iTune being closed to other players... and it's gonna cost them millions

Can't really say I would be sorry either.....

[bousozoku]

So how has Nokia managed to be the largest cell manufacturer in the world if all this is true?

People have to replace their phones quite often? They've been offered free more often than any other manufacturer's phones for several years?

In any case, their inexpensive phones seem to get bad user reviews and their expensive phones don't seem to be easy to use, so I can still say that I've never owned one. I saw the N95 for $719 the other day and that's quite a bit, especially if it's competing with the iPhone, locked or unlocked.

Yes, they can claim to be open but if the phone is a pain to use, who will care whether it's open or not?

[Evangelion]

>Not all Nokias that Nokia sells through operators are available on their website SIM-free and unlocked.

Well, they are over here ;). And those phones you mentioned are not sold by Nokia, they are sold by the operator.

>The cheapest phone on their website is $199.

So?

>If Nokia didn't like operators paying them loads of money to stick their (the operators') logos and software on it, lock it to their network, subsidise it, and sell it with a two year contract, then Nokia could stop selling them their phones in the first place.

Nokia doesn't really like it when operators do that, according to their CEO. But if operators insist on doing that, there's not much they could do about it. If they didn't go along, operators would simply shop elsewhere. And that is exactly the thing that has happened in the USA; where Nokia is a small player. Kallasvuo has commented that they have been suffering in the USA because they want to make and sell devices that end-users want, as opposed to making and selling devices that operators want. And since most phones in USA are sold through the operators, they have been suffering in the US market.

However, they seem to be okay with the castration of their phones considering that they've been selling them in this country under this process for probably nearly two decades.

Complain to the operators then who insist on crippling those phones. Does Apple sell unlocked phones? No. In fact, they do their best to make their phones as locked as possible. And while Nokia-phones are being castrated by the operators, Nokia itself does not do that. They encourage open phones, and that's something Apple does NOT do.

Don't like castrated Nokias? Well, switch to an operator that does not castrate them, or buy your phones unlocked. And neither of those is an option when iPhone is concerned.

[Evangelion]

Basically, Nokia doesn't give a crap about your user experience

While you might feel that their devices are not fun to use, the above statement is 100% bullcrap.

it's not at all a priority for them

Well, yes it is. Their UI was one of the things that helped them beat Ericsson and Motorole to become #1 cell-phone manufacturer.

and they're not going to help you if you modify their phone.

Lots of our users here have "modified" their phones, and Nokia doesn't care. The phones are still serviced just fine if they break. Hell, Nokia has built software and API's that help users modify and expand their phones, how is that NOT helping? Hell, just for ***** and giggles I launched Nokia PC Suite on my computer. And sure enough, there is a button labeled "Install Applications" right in the front page. Sure looks like they ARE helping me out.

For Apple it is different because the phone is all about the user experience.

How does that work if I want to run SSH-client (for example) on my iPhone? What would the "user experience" be like?

[awmazz]

It's legal to unlock an iPhone, isn't it?

So you unlock your iPhone and give your business to another carrier. Then Apple comes along and relocks your iPhone, locking the second carrier out and forcing you back to the original carrier. The second carrier then has legal recourse for loss of business.

How is Apple 'bundling' a carrier different from Microsoft 'bundling' a web browser, and then using its control over the OS to shut another carrier/browser (Netscape) out?

The choice of carrier is NOT part of the iPhone's system. It's a bundled feature, so Apple cannot dictate it, let alone force-change it back again, despite what they write in the small print. Maybe in America, but not elsewhere. Despite Microsoft arguing til they were blue in the face that Internet Explorer was part of their system, they just lost their legal battle badly in the European Court, didn't they? A fine of $360 million if I recall correctly.

PS. I haven't been abe to find this info through the search feature (too many posts on 'contracts'), but when your original 2 year contract expires, is the iPhone then unlocked and you're free to use another carrier? Or are you forced to sign up again until Apple's 5 year deal with the original carrier expires?

[kamiboy]

About a month back we got a Nokia N95 in at work, so seeing all the comparisons with iPhone I decided to put it though its paces. Needless to say I was laughing hysterically and pointing at the device in ridicule within the first minutes of using it. It has been a long time since I have had the displeasure of using such a steaming pile of crap.

Apple has nothing to be afraid of from Nokia, locked or not, it is still a piece of ****. As much as teh interwebs wants to make a big deal out of the locked platform issue on the iPhone I simply refuse to believe that it is an issue for the average, normal phone user who is not tech geek. You know, 90% of the mobile phone users.

The others will just have to stick with 1.0.2 until the next version is hacked, its not like Apple is forcing you to update the firmware.

[Evangelion]

It's legal to unlock an iPhone, isn't it?

According to the DMCA, it is.

So you unlock your iPhone and give your business to another carrier. Then Apple comes along and relocks your iPhone, locking the second carrier out and forcing you back to the original carrier. The second carrier then has legal recourse for loss of business.

Well, not exactly. The way I see is that you are free to unlock your iPhone, and neither Apple or at&t can sue you for it. But that doesn't mean that they are not allowed to prevent you from doing so.

If you bypass encryption or DRM, you are breaking the law and you can be prosecuted for it. Unless you are doing it to unlock a phone. But it doesn't mean that you or anyone else can sue someone if you are prevented from unlocking the phone. It just means that you can't get sued for unlocking your phone.

Of course, IANAL.

How is Apple 'bundling' a carrier different from Microsoft 'bundling' a web browser, and then using its control over the OS to shut another carrier/browser (Netscape) out?

Well, for starters Microsoft is a monopoly, whereas Apple is not....

Apple has nothing to be afraid of from Nokia, locked or not

I can't help but laugh at this comment :). Rather, it's the other way around. Nokia, with it's 40% market-share has nothing to fear from Apple, which has under 1% market-share.

As much as teh interwebs wants to make a big deal out of the locked platform issue on the iPhone I simply refuse to believe that it is an issue for the average, normal phone user who is not tech geek. You know, 90% of the mobile phone users.

Our users range from "normal users" and "power-users". And just about every one of them has modified their phone in one way or the other.

[blakecamp]

too bad nobody wants to develop on a nokia phone. :apple:

[obirah]

So how has Nokia managed to be the largest cell manufacturer in the world if all this is true?

Well, I think the main reason is they've kept the user interface about the same from the beginning till now and refining it without changing it.
Back in the late 90s the Nokia 3210 was using the same menu structure, keyboard symbols, even the turn on/off button is still on a similar place. That helps you not having to learn how to use every new phone you get.

Another reason why Nokia worked and still works is that it crashed not that often than other phones at the time. You could always say "Get a nokia and it won't crash". Almost the same situation as with Windows and MacOs.
Nowadays you have almost everything on your phone. The cool thing about my current Nokia is that it still works exactly the same way, it has everything I need (and a lot of stuff I don't need). It evolved so to say. And it still works great.

A good example of Nokia working great is the fact that I still see people on the street with 1996 year models - the father used it, the big brother used it, it felt like 1000 times and now the teenage girl uses it and it's still working. You can't say that for a lot of other phones.

Oh, and one other thing - the price classes:

Current nokia models start from 139 EUR (Nokia Online Shop - you can get it even cheaper) and end at 19.000 EUR + (for Vertu as Nokia Luxury line)
So you can cover the whole market...


For me right now the better combination is a Nokia phone to talk with and send SMS and the new iPod touch to have the music and the internet in my pocket - I don't like the idea to get out of battery because I surfed a bit too much and having a way to call someone because of that.

[Evangelion]

too bad nobody wants to develop on a nokia phone. :apple:

Um, there is HUGE number of apps available for Nokia-phones, and comments like that reek of ignorance. Just to give you an idea:

link (http://www.s60.com/life/application/displayApplications.do)
Link (http://my-symbian.com/s60/software/index.php)
116 pages of apps.... (http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/software/Series_60_3/)

[applepies]

Just had to register.

I'm by no means implying that N95 is a perfect phone. However it sure as hell is the most advanced cellphone in the world right now, still a year after launch..

I mean sure there are some problems. Personally for me the biggest annoyance is the battery life, which could be twice as long. But yeah, at least I can pop in a new battery myself ;)

Now iPhone pros? What are they? Longer battery life and a better looking (thou def not better functioning) UI.. anything else? Yeah didn't think so..

Now the N95 pros. Well let's see.. I rather like the 5 MP camera. You have a standalone camera? Well do you also have a standalone GPS unit? Don't need one? I didn't think I'd needed one either, that is before I had one. I also enjoy having a 3,6 MB modem on me at all times. 3,5G pretty much covers this entire country while wifi hotspots are hard to find and non existent when you're on the move. I rather enjoy having broadband speeds on my laptop at commuter trains.

N95 is what you make of it. iPhone is what Steve allows you to make of it. Now if you don't need the stuff the N95 offers.. well iPhone might be better for you, thou I reckon that 400$ is still too heavy a price for that Apple at the back.

[applepies]

Needless to say I was laughing hysterically and pointing at the device in ridicule within the first minutes of using it. It has been a long time since I have had the displeasure of using such a steaming pile of crap.



1$ a ringtone.. that's innovation :p


Anyways did you laugh at the 5 MP camera. I mean the 2 MP one in iPhone is so much more impressive. Had a good laugh about the 3G chip which doesn't exist in iPhone? What about the GPS chip, I'm sure that gave you a good laugh! Flash and Java in web browser? Surely that gave you the giggles? TV out? The 3,5mm jack that you can use with any headphones?


I've been laughing at this (http://www.mobile-review.com/articles/2007/iphone-as-phone-en.shtml) and this (http://www.mobile-review.com/articles/2007/iphone-sms-en.shtml) a lot lately ;)

[aristobrat]

Anyways did you laugh at the 5 MP camera. I mean the 2 MP one in iPhone is so much more impressive. Had a good laugh about the 3G chip which doesn't exist in iPhone? What about the GPS chip, I'm sure that gave you a good laugh! Flash and Java in web browser? Surely that gave you the giggles? TV out? The 3,5mm jack that you can use with any headphones?
Your post once again proves that a device is more than the simple sum of its parts.

What's the point of using really great subcomponents if many people find the UI unintuitive and slow to use, the physical form factor to be bulky, and battery life that rapidly declines the more you use the additional features? :confused:

Um, there is HUGE number of apps available for Nokia-phones, and comments like that reek of ignorance. Just to give you an idea:[/url]
What I'm curious to know is how soon after they launched their first device Nokia and RIM had SDKs available.

Seems to me I had my first BB for a year or two before third-party apps started to trickle out...

[applepies]

Your post once again proves that a device is more than the simple sum of its parts.


Only if you can add more to it thru 3rd party apps ;)


What's the point of using really great subcomponents if many people find the UI unintuitive and slow to use, the physical form factor to be bulky, and battery life that rapidly declines the more you use the additional features? :confused:

Actually I find the s60 3rd edition UI very nice and fast to use. Bulky? Please, the iPhone is longer and wider than the N95. What goes for the battery life, yeah I wouldn't mind having some more. I guess N95 8GB addresses this 'issue'..


What's the point of having a phone if you can't even hear it ring 3 meters away? What's the point of having vibration in a phone if you can't feel it in your own pocket? What's the point of having a 2 MP camera in phone when the end result is.. well it's not impressive.

You think the iPhone's ui is intuitive and fast to use?


Calling with the iPhone:

After pressing the button below the display or the power key, unlocking the device, moving fingers across the display, tapping the Phone icon, we get straight into… The place you end up in actually depends on your luck – the Phone application comes with 5 tabs – Favorites, Recent Calls, Contacts, Keyboard, Voice mail. This handset memorizes the last tab you were in and then upon re-entering the application calls up this tab. For other applications this approach can do some good, but in a mobile phone that has dumped all hardware keys, such a solution is more than just odd. The keypad is what all phones have in common, and normally we tend to call more often than do something else with our handsets. Probably, the fact that LG and Samsung have finally awoken to this has made for pick/hang up buttons in the Prada and the Armani. These Korean makers have not forgotten what the handset is all about – calls.

Anyway, in the iPhone that Phone application is three clicks away, and then you will usually need another tap to enable the keypad or some other apps, like the phonebook or favorites.

Mobile-review



WOW! :)

Read the review (I posted a link) and then come back and talk about good UI design ;)

[anschris]

Some of you guys crack me up. Apple can make whatever kind of device they want. Just because you buy it as it is, doesn't mean they then have to change it to suit your needs. Who are they controlling?

I just bought my shiny new iPhone. Thank God it hasn't ibricked yet. Yes, I installed a 3rd party app. The ONLY reason I did this is that the new iPhone doesn't have the simplest of applications: chat. For God's sake! Even my crappy Motorola flip phone had that! So, I resorted to installing an available 3rd party application. I haven't unlocked it to go on another network. Why bother? No other network has the technology for the phone. I just switched to AT&T for this phone and so far have been impressed with their support.

I can understand Apple not supporting hacked/unlocked iPhones, but to actively target and destroy someone's hardware through an update, that they have paid for is beyond reprehensible.

So, Clonenode, I want to know what makes you think ANYONE is expecting Apple to change the phone to suit their needs??? We just want Apple to leave it the hell alone. I can understand if we were putting software on the phone that was causing problems for Apple, but no one is doing that. In fact, those that are buying the iPhone are more than likely already fans of Apple and their products. Your ignorance in believing that people that buy a piece of hardware and actually want to do with it as they wish are somehow wrong is completely stupid. Look at it this way. How would you feel if you bought a computer from Dell and Dell told you you could only install applications made by or supplied by Dell? What a pile of crap that would be huh?

[Sobe]

I just bought my shiny new iPhone. Thank God it hasn't ibricked yet. Yes, I installed a 3rd party app. The ONLY reason I did this is that the new iPhone doesn't have the simplest of applications: chat. For God's sake! Even my crappy Motorola flip phone had that! So, I resorted to installing an available 3rd party application. I haven't unlocked it to go on another network. Why bother? No other network has the technology for the phone. I just switched to AT&T for this phone and so far have been impressed with their support.

I can understand Apple not supporting hacked/unlocked iPhones, but to actively target and destroy someone's hardware through an update, that they have paid for is beyond reprehensible.

So, Clonenode, I want to know what makes you think ANYONE is expecting Apple to change the phone to suit their needs??? We just want Apple to leave it the hell alone. I can understand if we were putting software on the phone that was causing problems for Apple, but no one is doing that. In fact, those that are buying the iPhone are more than likely already fans of Apple and their products. Your ignorance in believing that people that buy a piece of hardware and actually want to do with it as they wish are somehow wrong is completely stupid. Look at it this way. How would you feel if you bought a computer from Dell and Dell told you you could only install applications made by or supplied by Dell? What a pile of crap that would be huh?

I think the problem is in characterizing their efforts the way you do.

Is it Apple's responsibility to contact the hackers, get their code and test it for compatability with their updates?

The people you should be reserving your ire for is the hackers who obviously didn't do proper testing on the software they distributed.

[aristobrat]

They should probably update their review as 1.1.1 allows you to press the home button twice and be taken straight to the favorites (speed-dial) screen.

By bulk, I mean thick, ... fat. It feels like I'm holding a deck of cards. It looks like a brick in my pant pocket.

When it comes to the user-interface and device usability, have you seen the article where the N95, iPhone and HTC Touch were tested?
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9037858&pageNumber=2

Seems to sum up your point that the Nokia has (by far) better features/subcomponent specs and mine that the iPhone, because of its UI, is a device that people can pick up and figure out a lot easier.

The company brought in 10 testers who had never used any of the three devices. It then asked the testers to perform a series of tasks on each device with quantifiable results, such as the time needed to find and use the on/off switch. Other tasks included setting the phone to vibrate, making a call, saving a phone number to the contact list, sending a brief e-mail, taking a photo and finding a Web site using the device's built-in browser.

"People can eventually learn to use any device," Ballew said. "But that's not true usability. We wanted to see how long it took to figure out how to use the phones. That's the difference between learnability and usability."
I think this is what you're not taking into consideration when you knock the iPhones UI.

Let's cut to the bottom line: In terms of usability, iPhone blew away its two competitors. Its overall score in the usability tests was 4.6 out of 5. The HTC Touch was a distant second at 3.4, and the Nokia N95 scored 3.2.

"Testers were [typically] about twice as fast doing specific tasks on the iPhone, which is pretty remarkable," Thornton said.

The Nokia N95, however, suffered from too much complexity, even for basic tasks.

"People had a hard time turning it on," Thornton said. "Only 30% of our sample group could turn it on right away."

Once turned on, navigation was confusing to some users.

"You can access different menus from different locations, which can be disorienting," Ballew said. "And common features are hard to find -- turning the sound down, putting it on vibrate, things like that."

Functionality refers to what some consider the meat and potatoes of the device -- its applications and how complex and customizable they are. It also refers to the quality of subsystems within the device, such as the camera. In this area, the Nokia was the clear leader.

"It has a really nice feature set," Ballew said. On the other hand, he stressed, its strong feature set contributed to its relatively poor usability scores in previous categories.

"It's right on the verge of feature bloat," he said. "I mean, I'm not sure when I'd ever use the bar-code scanner. And some of the features are hard to set up." In particular, Ballew said it took four hours to set up Wi-Fi on the N95, which was a fast, simple task on both the HTC Touch and the iPhone.

[megfilmworks]

Um, there is HUGE number of apps available for Nokia-phones, and comments like that reek of ignorance.
Sure if you can put up with Symbian...no thanks!!

[applepies]

stufff


Check the review I posted a link to. They ask people to do very basic stuff with the N95 and iPhone. People do the things with the N95 about twice as fast.. ;)

And seriously, if 70% of people have a hard time turning the device on. Well their test group must consist of mentally retarded people.

N95 feels like a deck of cards? You reckon a deck of cards is a big object? Anyways iPhone feels like a CD case.. which do you prefer to keep in your pocket? I go for the deck of cards any day ;)

[anschris]

I think the problem is in characterizing their efforts the way you do.

Is it Apple's responsibility to contact the hackers, get their code and test it for compatability with their updates?

The people you should be reserving your ire for is the hackers who obviously didn't do proper testing on the software they distributed.

I am certainly not saying that Apple has any responsibility toward any 3rd party developers. In fact, I think Apple needs to stay away from it. What irks me is that (from everything I have read), the latest update will detect any added apps or "hacks" of your iPhone and will turn it into a rectangular hockey puck. As long as my added apps aren't somehow causing direct harm to Apple or AT&T's system, then the update should either ignore those components or simply not install.

Personally, I love the Apple products. I couldn't wait to buy an Intel based Mac. I love it to death and would never dream of going back to a PC (Pile of Crap). I hope Apple continues to develop on all of their product lines. I just wish they would stay out of my hardware. I like my new phone, but I needed some things that were just plain not included, such as iChat.

I used to have a new BB and that was a sweet phone a year ago when I got it. It had almost everything I wanted. When I got the iPhone, it said that it had a maps application. Well, so did my BB. I made the rather rash assumption that they would be at least somewhat similar. NOT SO. The iPhone map is just a map. It doesn't have the GPS feature. Even though the phone contains a GPS system........ So, I have to use a 3rd party app. Will that cause the phone to brick on the next update? We'll see. Certainly hope not since it's no skin off anyone else's nose.

Andrew

P.S. Unlike most of the people on this board, I am giving my REAL name and not hiding behind some weird veil of anonymity provided by a user name. Are we all really so frightened of the internet that we can't at least use our first names? Of course, this is a topic for some other board I suppose. Oh well.

[ender22]

too bad nobody wants to develop on a nokia phone. :apple:

Too bad nobody CAN develop on an iPhone. "No SDK required" my ass.

[CJD2112]

Hi,
welcome to the internet!
just a tip: writing in all caps means you are yelling, and doesn't make people appreciate your points any better, and makes you seem abrasive, just like yelling in real life

Sadly, a lot of people on the internet, especially in forums, don't know the meaning of the word respect. Sitting behind their shiny little screens and keyboards, all sense of decency is lost as they anonymously write insulting and disrespectful comments. Kind of a sad state of the human psyche I guess. Oh well.

[ngdesign]

HAHA.. i think they are just desperate because not many programer likes to make them 3rd party softwares

& yes.. apple should open up for 3rd party stuffs

[aristobrat]

Check the review I posted a link to. They ask people to do very basic stuff with the N95 and iPhone. People do the things with the N95 about twice as fast.. ;)
That's the whole point. The review you link to is someone's personal review of the iPhone. The link I gave was to a usability survey conducted by research scientists (subsequently published by Computerworld).

The research scientists designed their test to be objective between the devices being tested. As the first lines of the review you point to reads "Attention. If you are an Apple fan, stop right here, don’t read any further. Take care about your nerves.", I'm guessing that objectivity wasn't one of their main objectives.

When it comes to your claim that "people do things with the N95 about twice as fast...", the only speed claims mentioned involve using the N95's shortcut keys to access voice mail, speed dial, etc. I see no speed claims on how long it takes to do other real-world tasks, such as sending an email, taking a picture, putting the phone in silent mode, pulling up a web page, or sending a SMS. :confused:

And seriously, if 70% of people have a hard time turning the device on. Well their test group must consist of mentally retarded people.
Or maybe they weren't quite sure which of the following clearly labeled (:rolleyes:) buttons actually turns it on?

Like I said, the N95 is one of the best pieces of equipment out there. That does *not* make it easy for the average person to use, and I think the article I linked to proves that point a lot better than your article does.

So where's the power button? Is it...

One of the buttons on the front?
http://i.zdnet.com/gallery/61111-525-393.jpg

Maybe one of the ones on the left?
http://i.zdnet.com/gallery/61114-525-393.jpg

Or how about the right?
http://i.zdnet.com/gallery/61113-525-393.jpg

[xy14]

everyone email sjobs@apple.com and let them know that they broke the DMCA by not allowing unlocked phones to stay unlocked! Not only that but they made these iPhones completely useless! (at $4-600/phone, with 1% of people unlocking them, thats nearly $60,000,000 in damages!) LAWSUIT

[pascalpp]

yeah i believe to photoshop... good eye i zoomed in on the immage and you can see the pixels change around the letters and some of the images..

this is not a photoshop job. the 'changed' pixels you're referring to around the letters are just JPEG artifacts.

[PBG4 Dude]

everyone email sjobs@apple.com and let them know that they broke the DMCA by not allowing unlocked phones to stay unlocked! Not only that but they made these iPhones completely useless! (at $4-600/phone, with 1% of people unlocking them, thats nearly $60,000,000 in damages!) LAWSUIT

Maybe you need to reread stuff again. It's not against the DMCA to break encryption / reverse engineer software in order to unlock a cell phone. It doesn't say anything about it being illegal for said cell phone manufacturer to relock the phone.

[elguercoterco]

This evening I went to Nokia's store in NYC to look for an iphone alternative. I'm fed up with the whole iphone/Apple/ATT BS crap and would like to get out all this.

I was going to check out the E61i but after playing with it for an hour there's NO way that I can ever move from my iphone to that User interface - it's a total mess, is slow to navigate, complicated to figure out and just plain user-hostile. The keyboard, which people have raved about, felt awful to me too. In terms of functionality, it beats the iphone in most respects, but without a sleek, smooth UI to take advantage, it's more trouble than it's worth.

just had to say that i broke my iphone after about a week of having it...not thinking i could afford another i started thinking about a cheap replacement. i couldn't find anything as satisfying as the iphone. hell, even picking up my friends razr to make a call was awful as i inadvertently tried to scroll with my fingers. I instinctively did this a few times with other phones before realizing what it was i needed to do....

suffice to say, i bought another iphone :) locked or not, this phone is unreal and way ahead of ANYTHING ELSE ON THE MARKET.

[WinstonSmith]

Like I said, the N95 is one of the best pieces of equipment out there. That does *not* make it easy for the average person to use, and I think the article I linked to proves that point a lot better than your article does.

So where's the power button? Is it...

I'm not saying that the iPhone doesn't have a more intuitive user interface than say the N95. But in my opinion, it's not a great catastrophe if you need a little time to adjust to a new interface. You really need to be retarded if you can't find the power button on the N95. Could it be the round button, with the universal symbol of power buttons? Hmmm.

Since I have nearly always used Nokia phones, the interface feels kind of natural and easy to use, most of all logical. I know what's where and what happens when I do something. The good part is, wheter I'm using a low end 1100 or a high end N95, they both have familiar features and once you spend some time with a Nokia phone, you can pretty much use all of them.

If I bought a Samsung or a Sony Ericsson phone today, I wouldn't expect to master the interface immedeatly. If it takes a coule of days to get used to, I wouldn't say the phone sucks.

My point is that very good usability is only positive, but I would not give up many of the beautiful features of a modern smartphone, just beacuse some lame featured phone is a bit easier to use. And I would not let Apple tell me what carrier to use and what I can or can't do with my phone

[kdarling]

II can understand Apple not supporting hacked/unlocked iPhones, but to actively target and destroy someone's hardware through an update, that they have paid for is beyond reprehensible.


I saw a blog recently, that went something like this:

Even Microsoft doesn't purposely brick your computer if you have a bogus copy of Windows. They just install the security updates and go on. (However, only paid-for copies are allow to upgrade.)

The least Apple could've done, was to see if the current code was theirs... if not, then warn the user and STOP. There was no reason to continue and brick the phone.

[applepies]

The link I gave was to a usability survey conducted by research scientists (subsequently published by Computerworld).


Makes no difference what so ever who hands the phone to people.


We handed our iPhone to random people, showed where the Phone application was and offered them to practice in dialing phone numbers. When they mastered this operation, we asked them to type 333-33-33 on the Nokia N95 and do exactly the same thing on the iPhone. The dispersion in the results we witnessed was quite remarkable. It took them about 5 seconds (best time – 4 seconds) to dial with the N95 and nearly 10 seconds with the iPhone (best time – 9 seconds).





Like I said, the N95 is one of the best pieces of equipment out there. That does *not* make it easy for the average person to use, and I think the article I linked to proves that point a lot better than your article does.


No, seriously it's very easy to use and again you have to be retarded if you have problems turning it on. :rolleyes:

Active Standby is there for all the common things like messages, calendar, www, maps & music. Those are like 1 click away and then the more advanced functions are hidden inside the Symbian menu (which is again 1 click away). Then there's also the multimedia menu (again 1 click away). It's so simple :)

[ok13]

big difference between osx and whatever os those ****heads can dream up

[bousozoku]

everyone email sjobs@apple.com and let them know that they broke the DMCA by not allowing unlocked phones to stay unlocked! Not only that but they made these iPhones completely useless! (at $4-600/phone, with 1% of people unlocking them, thats nearly $60,000,000 in damages!) LAWSUIT

Calm down.

I believe that the locked phones can still make emergency calls. They're not completely useless.

Besides, I believe that the user agrees to not reverse engineer or otherwise tamper with the phone's software, so Apple really hasn't done anything legally wrong. They're just taking care of the customer's breach of contract.

[BillHarrison]

I read your posts, and all I can say is this!

SIMPLE:

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD AT&T SERVICE AND NEED TO HACK YOUR IPHONE TOO BAD, GO TO ANOTHER CARRIER. TMOBILE WILL BE HAPPY TO TAKE YOU. GET YOUR NOKIA PHONE AND HAVE A GOOD LIFE.

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE IPHONE OR WANT CUSTOM HACKS STOP COMPLAINING BUY A DIFFERENT PHONE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE APPLE'S POLICIES....GO BY ANOTHER VENDORS

BASICS 101


I did. And I have AT&T already. So stick the whole "Can't afford" right where it burns after mexican food. What a great way to treat potential customers. With people like you pitching apple products, I may never buy another. My windows mobile phone has mp3 ringtones, and I can download any one of thousands of 3rd party apps and games, as well as run java midlets.

I would own an iPhone this very second were it not locked down.

But as long as apple has policies like these, I will shy away.

[kamiboy]

1$ a ringtone.. that's innovation :p


Anyways did you laugh at the 5 MP camera. I mean the 2 MP one in iPhone is so much more impressive. Had a good laugh about the 3G chip which doesn't exist in iPhone? What about the GPS chip, I'm sure that gave you a good laugh! Flash and Java in web browser? Surely that gave you the giggles? TV out? The 3,5mm jack that you can use with any headphones?


I've been laughing at this (http://www.mobile-review.com/articles/2007/iphone-as-phone-en.shtml) and this (http://www.mobile-review.com/articles/2007/iphone-sms-en.shtml) a lot lately ;)

Yeah, I laughed of it all because N95 is a piece of poorly constructed ***** with even worse software and the worst UI of any mobile manufacturer. Tech geeks can quote spec sheets all day long, I don't care. Unlike tech geeks I don't get off by what I read off of a piece of paper, rather I like to have the device in my hand and make up my mind by using it.

I tested the N95 and tried all of its "touted" functions, though it sure did make a fine effort of preventing me by crashing on me more than a PC running Windows ME. But the verdict was in pretty early on, Nokia might have 40% of the market now but if they don't shape up in a major way they will only see that number grow slimmer and slimmer. Apple I imagine could easily get the lions share of whatever Nokia looses if they wanted to.

[applepies]

Yeah, I laughed of it all because N95 is a piece of poorly constructed ***** with even worse software and the worst UI of any mobile manufacturer.


Worst UI of all mobile manufacturer? Please be a little bit more informative. What did you like? Nothing? What did you dislike? Everything? Have you tried out all UIs of all manufacturers? Give examples of what sucked..


Tech geeks can quote spec sheets all day long, I don't care. Unlike tech geeks I don't get off by what I read off of a piece of paper, rather I like to have the device in my hand and make up my mind by using it.


Yeah it's just that there's not that much to use in iPhone when compared with N95.



I tested the N95 and tried all of its "touted" functions, though it sure did make a fine effort of preventing me by crashing on me more than a PC running Windows ME.


So what firmware version was it running on? N95 has never crashed on me and I've had mine since April or something.



But the verdict was in pretty early on, Nokia might have 40% of the market now but if they don't shape up in a major way they will only see that number grow slimmer and slimmer.


Actually Nokia's market share is increasing all the time..



Apple I imagine could easily get the lions share of whatever Nokia looses if they wanted to.

Not. You know N95 has sold more than iPhone and sure it was sold all around the world instead of USA alone but still.. especially when you consider that it's more expensive than the iPhone and just one out of 100s of phones in Nokia's portfolio.

But yeah, dream on fanboy. I'm guessing you've never even touched N95..

[shrewsburywolf]

Worst UI of all mobile manufacturer? Please be a little bit more informative. What did you like? Nothing? What did you dislike? Everything? Have you tried out all UIs of all manufacturers? Give examples of what sucked..

Sorry to butt in... but I could let this pass without casting my vote for worst UI, a few years back my wife had a Motorola, boy was that terrible!!!:eek: Once you had typed out a text message you had to press about 17 buttons just to send the damn thing!

[gceo]

I love it!!!!!

Why? Because WE ALL WIN. This makes Nokia work harder, which makes Apple work harder. So from both camps, this is a very good thing. I'm glad another cell co. took notice of Apple. Thank you.

[shrewsburywolf]

I love it!!!!!

Why? Because WE ALL WIN. This makes Nokia work harder, which makes Apple work harder. So from both camps, this is a very good thing. I'm glad another cell co. took notice of Apple. Thank you.

Fair point, they must feel fairly intimidated by apple's product to take this sort of action. I have owned a few nokia's but switched to sony erricsson as I thought all nokia's phones were getting a bit samey. The N95 is probably the first nokia since the 7110 to really make me look again.

[HiRez]

I love it!!!!!

Why? Because WE ALL WIN. This makes Nokia work harder, which makes Apple work harder. So from both camps, this is a very good thing. I'm glad another cell co. took notice of Apple. Thank you.Now that is the most sensible thing I've heard anyone say in this thread. We can argue all day long about N95 vs. iPhone features and UI, but as you say, any good features or innovation from any side will end up benefitting everyone eventually, no matter what phone they get. Hopefully manufacturers will take the best bits from everything and fold them into their new products.

But I do have to say, let's remember the iPhone is a brand new platform with a lot of room to grow and though it's closed now, that doesn't mean it always will be. Perhaps Apple just wants to get started with an easier to maintain closed system before jumping in all the way, since they are a brand new player starting from scratch in this vicious market of mobile phones.

[gkarris]

I've always liked my Nokia phones. Those N95's are $749 though (ouch)... :(

[kamiboy]

Worst UI of all mobile manufacturer? Please be a little bit more informative. What did you like? Nothing? What did you dislike? Everything? Have you tried out all UIs of all manufacturers? Give examples of what sucked..



Yeah it's just that there's not that much to use in iPhone when compared with N95.




So what firmware version was it running on? N95 has never crashed on me and I've had mine since April or something.




Actually Nokia's market share is increasing all the time..




Not. You know N95 has sold more than iPhone and sure it was sold all around the world instead of USA alone but still.. especially when you consider that it's more expensive than the iPhone and just one out of 100s of phones in Nokia's portfolio.

But yeah, dream on fanboy. I'm guessing you've never even touched N95..

You bore me. I make games for mobile phones for a living, here at the office we have somewhere between 50-100 mobile phones, all thrown together in boxes. Although we write games for Java, which theoretically should mean that one jar should work on all handsets the reality is that differences in performance and screen resolution and most of all buggy Java implementations force us to test on each and every device.

I have tried more mobile phones that you could ever dream of, that is if the dream was not more of a nightmare. Who makes the best handsets? SONY-Ericsson hands down, among the normal handset manufacturers (anyone not Apple) they do everything right. Who has the worst UI and platform, well the poo award will have to go to Nokia with the their S60 platform. Ask anyone at the office, they will tell you the same and throw in LG and Samsung for buggy software.

I am not going to give you a point for point list of bad things with the Nokia S60 UI. Why? Because if you have truly had an iPhone and a N95 in your hand and used them each for 10 minutes and still think the N95 is da shizzle then you are beyond help. You are one of those techgeeks that have a certain fetish for high technology that you have long lost all touch with the reality that ordinary consumers are faced with when they struggle with bad design in electronics.

Like the people who love Linux or work at Microsoft you are impervious to bad design, congratulations. I however put design above anything else, everything from the cheap flimsy plastic feel of the N95 to the horribly bad menu, performance and UI of the the device irks me.

I don't give a flying monkey fart how many handsets Nokia has sold, if volume alone was the merit by which we measured quality then by god, Microsoft would surely be the pantheon of all things great. We all know how false that statement is, nuff said.

[applepies]

You bore me. I make games for mobile phones for a living, here at the office we have somewhere between 50-100 mobile phones, all thrown together in boxes. Although we write games for Java, which theoretically should mean that one jar should work on all handsets the reality is that differences in performance and screen resolution and most of all buggy Java implementations force us to test on each and every device.


Yet you had your first experiences with the N95 just a while back. I call ********. I bet you're just some highschool kiddy.



I have tried more mobile phones that you could ever dream of, that is if the dream was not more of a nightmare. Who makes the best handsets? SONY-Ericsson hands down, among the normal handset manufacturers (anyone not Apple) they do everything right. Who has the worst UI and platform, well the poo award will have to go to Nokia with the their S60 platform. Ask anyone at the office, they will tell you the same and throw in LG and Samsung for buggy software.


Once again you throw in incredible details.. besides the OS shouldn't really matter a flying **** if you do Java games.



Like the people who love Linux or work at Microsoft you are impervious to bad design, congratulations. I however put design above anything else, everything from the cheap flimsy plastic feel of the N95 to the horribly bad menu, performance and UI of the the device irks me.


And the details just keep on coming. If you really were a programmer you would appreciate Linux. Just goes to show your background if nothing else..

[Sobe]

Putting design above anything else isn't exactly appropriate either.

It's just worship at the altar of a different god.

[PowerFullMac]

Hmmm... I heard Nokia were deciding on what to do about the iPhone. At least they listen to what the customers want. Most Nokia N Series devices are still as expensive as the iPhone though, although you do get a better deal network/minutes/offers-wize.

[thomasfxlt]

If I was Nokia, I'd probably try to exploit this mess too. I don't blame them for trying.

I don't think it matters to the majority thought, because the "real majority" wants an iPhone that does what APPLE designed it to do.

[jwkay]

I've always liked my Nokia phones. Those N95's are $749 though (ouch)... :(

Or completely free in the UK from Apple's favourite Carphone Warehouse :)
It's a popular phone; how many customers will be willing to sacrifice features they already have to "upgrade" to the iPhone, which costs them more? N95 for free and UKP35 call package, or iPhone for UKP 269 and UKP35 call package?

[PowerFullMac]

Sorry to butt in... but I could let this pass without casting my vote for worst UI, a few years back my wife had a Motorola, boy was that terrible!!!:eek: Once you had typed out a text message you had to press about 17 buttons just to send the damn thing!

My dad also has a Motorola (one of the cheap ones) and I used to have one and I can tall you exclusively that they suck. They are good fashion accessorys but thats just about it really. Nokia phones, especially the N Series and Series 60 platform smartphones, they rock! I used to use my 6600 until recently. Nokia phones are also very strong. I drop mine all the time and its fine, im sending a text on it now. Samsung phones really suck though, I dropped my D500 twice on a carpet and it broke. Half the buttons dont work and the screen displays upside down and reflected, with messed up colours. So if I turn it upside down and look at it in a mirror and dont use the middle blue button, the C key, the green phone key or the left and right scroll buttons, I can still use it!

[Sobe]

I always liked Nokias...those Finns are some smart people.

Nothing wrong with Nokia filling one niche and Apple filling another.

[kamiboy]

Yet you had your first experiences with the N95 just a while back. I call ********. I bet you're just some highschool kiddy.




Once again you throw in incredible details.. besides the OS shouldn't really matter a flying **** if you do Java games.




And the details just keep on coming. If you really were a programmer you would appreciate Linux. Just goes to show your background if nothing else..

Jesus, the morons one meets on the internet. I mean really. You deserve a N95, damn frigtard.

[applepies]

Jesus, the morons one meets on the internet. I mean really.

Tell me about it. Now go play school kiddo :p

Tell me what this very simple class does and I give you a little credit:


import java.util.Scanner;

public class Something {
private static Scanner zzz = new Scanner(System.in);

public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("What is this, zero does what?");
int i = zzz.nextInt();
while (i != 0) {
System.out.println("WOOT: "+i*2);
i = zzz.nextInt();
}
System.out.println("So that's that.");
}
}


;)


edit.

It's been about a day now.. even if you answer it's suspicious. So consider yourself caught kiddo :o

[BS85]

my take...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandonshigeta/1473133645/

[xert]

my take...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandonshigeta/1473133645/
I don't really get your point considering that Nokia has lots of experience with touch screens (Nokia 7700, 7710, N770 and N800 - and their GPS navigator N300). Even Nokia's S60 user interface for Symbian has supported touch screens for some years although Nokia hasn't yet used touch screens in their S60 smartphones.

If we forget the design of iPhone, it's nothing more but a mediocre mobile phone with a "cool" UI and touchscreen. A high-end S60 smartphone (with or without a touch screen) is a completely different story.

It's true that the current S60 UI is optimised for "normal" keypad and non-touch screen - but this will be changing in the future... ;)

[zap2]

If we forget the design of iPhone, it's nothing more but a mediocre mobile phone with a "cool" UI and touchscreen.


Nope...nothing I've seen to date match up with safari on iPhone....and iTunes support is a must for me!

[applepies]

Nope...nothing I've seen to date match up with safari on iPhone....and iTunes support is a must for me!

Then you haven't seen much :D

What goes for iTunes. It's okay on Macs.. on Windows it's plain ****, even worse than Quicktime and Real.

[PowerFullMac]

my take...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brandonshigeta/1473133645/

Ha! Very funny, do a Micro$oft Zune one!!!! :D

[xert]

Nope...nothing I've seen to date match up with safari on iPhone....and iTunes support is a must for me!
S60 smartphones have a wide range of mobile browsers available: e.g. Nokia's S60 Browser, Opera Mobile, Opera Mini (Java program). Opera Mini's coming 4th version will offer a Safari/S60 Browser like user experience for non-touch screen (and non-smartphones). BTW, the native S60 browsers support Flash. (Windows Mobile version of Opera Mobile even supports touch screens.)

Nokia's N and E series smartphones (i.e. most of their smartphones) are able to sync DRM-free songs with iTunes. There's even a Mac version!

[Geckotek]

Wow nice design.. its cool..

Welcome to 2007. Spam much?