iPhone software for pilots. interesting

[jeffreyfort]

this is the most interesting 3rd party software I have seen thus far.

http://www.foreflight.com/

[kis]

this is the most interesting 3rd party software I have seen thus far.

http://www.foreflight.com/


"oreFlight iPhone Edition is the first iPhone and iPod touch centric way to get critical flight data right in the palm of your hand and on demand."

Just a pity that you can't use that while you're airborne (=illegal because it uses mobile connectivity).

[bonjavi]

"oreFlight iPhone Edition is the first iPhone and iPod touch centric way to get critical flight data right in the palm of your hand and on demand."

Just a pity that you can't use that while you're airborne (=illegal because it uses mobile connectivity).


man if you're using an iphone for that kind of things you won't have any problem using your phone while on it

[kis]

man if you're using an iphone for that kind of things you won't have any problem using your phone while on it

? why, do you think using cell phones and other radio transmitters are illegal only for passengers? You're wrong there - FCC regulations don't allow pilots to use that stuff either.

[kdarling]

Ah, well that's why it's called "Fore Flight" ... because you're supposed to use it to help plan beforehand.

Looks especially fun for armchair piloting as well. (This is what you do when you can't go up, but you want to dream/think about it anyway.)

PS. A private pilot can determine for themselves if a piece of electronic equipment interferes with their instruments or not. So that isn't a legal problem. The use of airborne cell phones still is.

However, pilots do use cell phones sometimes to ask for clearances when out of radio coverage, to call ahead for taxis, etc.

[IJ Reilly]

Ah, well that's why it's called "Fore Flight" ... because you're supposed to use it to help plan beforehand.

Looks especially fun for armchair piloting as well. (This is what you do when you can't go up, but you want to dream/think about it anyway.)

PS. A private pilot can determine for themselves if a piece of electronic equipment interferes with their instruments or not. So that isn't a legal problem. The use of airborne cell phones still is.

However, pilots do use cell phones sometimes to ask for clearances when out of radio coverage, to call ahead for taxis, etc.

The big problem with cell phone use airborne in the cockpit isn't so much that they can cause RF interference, but that they tend to hit too many cell towers simultaneously, which causes problems for the providers. This from what I understand is the main reasons why cell use while airborne is prohibited.

I don't know how you'd use a cell phone or any other kind of phone to get a clearance, since ATC only monitors radio frequencies. You could certainly use one to file or close a flight plan, though.

[sblasl]

Please Turn On Your Electronic Devices and Prepare for Take-off.;)

[DeaconGraves]

Friends don't let pilot friends fly planes while watching Zoolander. :rolleyes:

[kdarling]

The big problem with cell phone use airborne in the cockpit isn't so much that they can cause RF interference, but that they tend to hit too many cell towers simultaneously, which causes problems for the providers. This from what I understand is the main reasons why cell use while airborne is prohibited..

Yep, cell tower interference is one reason the FCC doesn't like it. One feature of cells is that each has its own set of frequencies that don't touch boundaries, just like a colored map of countries. Up in the air, you'd use a frequency that would be shared by lots more cells.

Potential instrument interference is why the FAA doesn't.

(Side note to some who note that airplanes fly into radio saturated areas. Yes, they do, but that has no comparison with a transmitter _inside_ the metal tube. Especially GSM buzz.)

I don't know how you'd use a cell phone or any other kind of phone to get a clearance, since ATC only monitors radio frequencies. You could certainly use one to file or close a flight plan, though.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was thinking of radio-out situations. Also thought I'd heard of some getting a pop-up that way when still outside repeater coverage in the mountains.

[Fast Shadow]

I fly on a regular basis and once in a while, I will be sneaky and try activating my cellphone, just to see if it can pick up a signal. I've done this perhaps five times over the past 6 or 7 years. Only one time did I get a signal. One bar, and it failed to successfully make a call. That's one thing I never understood about the events of 9/11 - how all those people were able to use their cellphones in airplanes that were whizzing along at hundreds of miles per hour. I know a couple people used airphones, but at least a few used their personal cellphones.

[kdarling]

That's one thing I never understood about the events of 9/11 - how all those people were able to use their cellphones in airplanes that were whizzing along at hundreds of miles per hour. I know a couple people used airphones, but at least a few used their personal cellphones.

I don't know if they used their personal cellphones or not, but my guess would be it had to do with what kind, CDMA or GSM. CDMA has a soft handoff between towers (it can talk to more than one at a time.) GSM cannot... it breaks the old, then makes a new one.

Soft Handoff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_handover)

Handoffs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handoff)

Not sure which is better in the air, though my bet is on CDMA, since it should be less likely to constantly drop the user.

[IJ Reilly]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was thinking of radio-out situations. Also thought I'd heard of some getting a pop-up that way when still outside repeater coverage in the mountains.

Could be I suppose. Maybe they could get it by calling a Flight Service Station, but I don't really know, since I'm not instrument rated. I have to wonder on the chances of hitting a cell tower in an area without even a remote FSS or ATC frequency.

Anyway, this iPhone product looks cool, I just don't see how you could use it legally in the cockpit.

[gkarris]

The big problem with cell phone use airborne in the cockpit isn't so much that they can cause RF interference, but that they tend to hit too many cell towers simultaneously, which causes problems for the providers. This from what I understand is the main reasons why cell use while airborne is prohibited.

In GA aircraft you're not flying as high, so you're only likely to light up the same cell sites as being on the ground...


I don't know how you'd use a cell phone or any other kind of phone to get a clearance, since ATC only monitors radio frequencies. You could certainly use one to file or close a flight plan, though.

It's happend to someone in our flying club. You get a comm failure, then you can call the tower's telephone with your problem, tail number, location, and ETA. They give you a place to report and then you look for the light gun signals...

[IJ Reilly]

In GA aircraft you're not flying as high, so you're only likely to light up the same cell sites as being on the ground...

I know, but I don't think the FAA or the FCC makes this subtle distinction.

It's happend to someone in our flying club. You get a comm failure, then you can call the tower's telephone with your problem, tail number, location, and ETA. They give you a place to report and then you look for the light gun signals...

Where'd he get the phone number? It's not going to be in the A/FD.

[bonjavi]

? why, do you think using cell phones and other radio transmitters are illegal only for passengers? You're wrong there - FCC regulations don't allow pilots to use that stuff either.

Sorry, what I mean is this kind of software is normally used when you fly on very small airplanes, single engined or twin, but not turbo prop, I mean, basic stuff like Cessna or Piper... Of course nor pilots or passengers should use mobile phones on commercial flights.

I'm commercial pilot, and when flying on school planes, or private (with not advanced avionics) it doesn't make any difference to carry the phone activated, we even use to call with it. So this kind of software is great cause in one of this planes you don't have any of the things that it offers you and you can securely use a mobile phone, pda or whatever.

[bonjavi]

In GA aircraft you're not flying as high, so you're only likely to light up the same cell sites as being on the ground...




It's happend to someone in our flying club. You get a comm failure, then you can call the tower's telephone with your problem, tail number, location, and ETA. They give you a place to report and then you look for the light gun signals...

Yeah that was what I mean, in General Aviation airplanes, avionics don't get affected by this system (most cases the better you have is a garmin GPS which is just a PDA with GPS); it's truth that you don't have to fly too high to lose signal or at least have some problems with it.


You can find the phone on the jeppessen charts, I guess they have a first one with all the info on the airfield.

[IJ Reilly]

You can find the phone on the jeppessen charts, I guess they have a first one with all the info on the airfield.

Probably that's it. Since I'm not instrument rated, I don't buy Jeppessen charts. It might also be in Flight Guide, and in some GPS databases. I know Flight Guide lists the general number for the airport in some cases.

[JimmyDreams]

I don't know how you'd use a cell phone or any other kind of phone to get a clearance, since ATC only monitors radio frequencies. You could certainly use one to file or close a flight plan, though.

Here in SoCal, we have a number of uncontrolled airports that cannot reach ATC via radios because of terrain issues etc. There is a posted 1-800 number for the pilots to call, they get a menu of airports, and they pick which one they need a clearance from. ATC answers and gives them whatever clearance they need.

I'm sure other areas of the country use similar methods.

[DotComCTO]

Where'd he get the phone number? It's not going to be in the A/FD.

Personally, I use The AirGuide FlightGuides (http://www.flightguide.com/). It has TONS of info - including phone numbers. Of course, I always have my A/FD with me, but I typically pull out the pages from the FlightGuide for the airports I'm going to be flying from/to (and some potential airports in between, just in case). Good stuff.

In any case, the software looks interesting. I'm not sure I'm getting anything much better than AOPA's online planners, though (aside from being optimized for an iPhone). I'll play around with the demo...the weather graphics are always nice to have.

:D

--DotComCTO

[kdarling]

Probably that's it. Since I'm not instrument rated, I don't buy Jeppessen charts. It might also be in Flight Guide, and in some GPS databases. I know Flight Guide lists the general number for the airport in some cases.

I used to carry a black book I bought somewhere that had all the tower, center, local FSS, etc phone numbers for the Northeast.

Now, where did I get that? (wracking brain) Oh yeah, actually I think it was a free sample at an AOPA show. Probably sold commercially.

[IJ Reilly]

I used to carry a black book I bought somewhere that had all the tower, center, local FSS, etc phone numbers for the Northeast.

Now, where did I get that? (wracking brain) Oh yeah, actually I think it was a free sample at an AOPA show. Probably sold commercially.

Not Flight Guide then? It's a brown binder.

[megfilmworks]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was thinking of radio-out situations. Also thought I'd heard of some getting a pop-up that way when still outside repeater coverage in the mountains.
kdarling has it right,
A good example is Watsonville, Ca. You get your IFR clearance on the phone from FSS (Flight Service) and then when you are ready for take off (this airport has no tower), you call on your radio or cellphone (if the reception on the ground is poor) to NorCal, the Radar control and they will give you your release.
And the Pilot in Command determines the use of electronics on board his aircraft.

[IJ Reilly]

kdarling has it right,
A good example is Watsonville, Ca. You get your IFR clearance on the phone from FSS (Flight Service) and then when you are ready for take off (this airport has no tower), you call on your radio or cellphone (if the reception on the ground is poor) to NorCal, the Radar control and they will give you your release.

All of this is happening on the ground, which I get. The suggestion that you can air file a pop-up clearance by phone is the one that surprised me.

And the Pilot in Command determines the use of electronics on board his aircraft.

Not that I'm doubting you, but do you happen to have an FAR/AIM citation for this?

[LoneWolf121188]

^^ I'm pretty sure its in Part 91 somewhere. Its definitely in the FARs and not the AIM. I know I've seen it before. Check AOPA. As to "air filing" a clearance...it doesn't really make a difference to FSS whether you're on the ground or not when you file. Now, whether you can actually get a hold of FSS before you run into the approach IFR is a completely different story...you may need to call them up a good 100+ miles out... *rolls eyes* ...don't get me started on the new FSS. Someone's going to get themselves killed one day because they got fed up sitting on hold for a preflight weather briefing...

Back on topic: I'd totally get this...if it were free. Since its not, I'll just use AirNav.com. :)

[Gonzlobo]

I agree, airnav.com has 75% of the info I need, aviationweather.gov has 20% & registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_inquiry.asp allows me to trace the owners of aircraft at the neighboring FBOs.

[bonjavi]

kdarling has it right,
A good example is Watsonville, Ca. You get your IFR clearance on the phone from FSS (Flight Service) and then when you are ready for take off (this airport has no tower), you call on your radio or cellphone (if the reception on the ground is poor) to NorCal, the Radar control and they will give you your release.
And the Pilot in Command determines the use of electronics on board his aircraft.


LOL!!

Now thats impressive

[gkarris]

I'm using the free trial - the UI on the iPhone is pretty good. Now I wish I have a data plan...:(

$8/month is a little steep though...

[JimmyDreams]

you may need to call them up a good 100+ miles out... *rolls eyes* ...don't get me started on the new FSS. Someone's going to get themselves killed one day because they got fed up sitting on hold for a preflight weather briefing...



Not to hijack or anything, but have you made any OFFICIAL complaints about the 'new and improved FSS'?

The FAA is deliberately (IMHO) taking steps to set up the ATC system for a privatization just like FSS. Imagine the advisory services you'll get THEN! Complain now, often and LOUDLY! We need all the help we can to shine the light on these cockroaches!

Jim (20+ year ATC)

[IJ Reilly]

Who still uses the FSS for Wx briefings anymore? Hit DUATS and you've been officially briefed, and nobody can say you weren't. Then use all the superior supplemental weather data available to find out what's really going on out there.

[kdarling]

It's too bad. Used to be able to call up and get someone who knew all about the local conditions.

Now you're lucky to get someone who's heard of your airport!

[DotComCTO]

Who still uses the FSS for Wx briefings anymore? Hit DUATS and you've been officially briefed, and nobody can say you weren't. Then use all the superior supplemental weather data available to find out what's really going on out there.

I do both. I also file VFR flight plans and get info at that point...I'd prefer a quick response from my local CAP squadron should I ever need it!

:p

--DotComCTO

[IJ Reilly]

I do both. I also file VFR flight plans and get info at that point...I'd prefer a quick response from my local CAP squadron should I ever need it!

:p

--DotComCTO

Gosh. The last time I filed a VFR flight plan was... on my solo cross-country! I prefer VFR radar services.

I became cynical about the weather briefers after one occasion when I got the dreaded "VFR not recommended" in a briefing when everything else I knew about the forecast from my own research looked okay. I ended up leaving my airplane at an airport 400 miles from home and driving home and looking at blue skies the entire way. That very costly experience was brought to me by the very conservative, cover-your-butt and less-than-well informed briefers at the FSS.

[Gonzlobo]

kdarling has it right,
A good example is Watsonville, Ca. You get your IFR clearance on the phone from FSS (Flight Service) and then when you are ready for take off (this airport has no tower), you call on your radio or cellphone (if the reception on the ground is poor) to NorCal, the Radar control and they will give you your release.
And the Pilot in Command determines the use of electronics on board his aircraft.

Ok, I'll ask... hey. megfilmworks, your avitar is a PFD. Which aircraft does it belong to?

[gkarris]

Gosh. The last time I filed a VFR flight plan was... on my solo cross-country! I prefer VFR radar services.

I became cynical about the weather briefers after one occasion when I got the dreaded "VFR not recommended" in a briefing when everything else I knew about the forecast from my own research looked okay. I ended up leaving my airplane at an airport 400 miles from home and driving home and looking at blue skies the entire way. That very costly experience was brought to me by the very conservative, cover-your-butt and less-than-well informed briefers at the FSS.

Yea, Briefers tend to not want to take responsibility if the report is marginal.

Hopefully, you're at an FBO with internet where you can get the latest radar and reports.

A couple of times, I just called back to get a different Briefer for an update...

[fireflighter]

Is the g3 actual gps (ie. satalite use)? If so is there any rumors of aviation gps software (ie. garmin like)?

[megfilmworks]

Ok, I'll ask... hey. megfilmworks, your avitar is a PFD. Which aircraft does it belong to?
That shot is from our DA42 Twinstar. As you probably know it is the PFD of a Garmin G1000 integrated avionics suite.