Apple.com Site Redesign?

[MacRumors]

According to Zeldman.com (http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0803a.shtml#apple), Apple has contracted two individuals (Douglas Bowman and Jeffrey Zeldman) to collaborate on a makeover of their corporate website (alongside the in-house Apple web design team).

Apple.com (http://www.apple.com/) has not undergone a major revision since the Mac OS X-theming in 1999/2000. The most recent pre-Mac OS X theme archive available is from November 1999 (http://web.archive.org/web/19991117085221/http://apple.com/index.html).

No time frame, or the extent of the makeover is given.

Update: A followup post on StopDesign.com (http://www.stopdesign.com/) claims that a visual redesign is not necessarily in the works:

To clear up some confusion and speculation, this does not imply a visual redesign is in the works. Happy Cog and Stopdesign will be consulting with the in-house team, providing guidance and a bit of a jump start as they explore the waters of web standards and forward-thinking design.

[applemacdude]

Maybe they wanna change teh design because of teh release of panther later on...

I doubt it though

[voyagerd]

I hope it's shinny!:D

[Mudbug]

Well, I for one hope that it's in the ballpark of being as functional and "pretty" as the current site... The current layout is easy to follow and understand, and is pleasing to the eye, as is the case with pretty much every apple product. I have to admit the designer in me wonders what the outcome will be...

[Keith Purfield]

I think it'll be a brushed metal design. They seem to like Metal now.

[iJon]

i wonder what other sites these guys have done. all i know thats a pretty heavy work load for 2 guys, im sure the paycheck will be nice though. when they collaborate, do these guys just think of the idea, or do they build the web site?

iJon

[evolu]

apple wants to be the #1 site on the net again.

http://www.btobonline.com/netMarketing200/2003/index.html

[arn]

Originally posted by iJon
i wonder what other sites these guys have done. all i know thats a pretty heavy work load for 2 guys, im sure the paycheck will be nice though. when they collaborate, do these guys just think of the idea, or do they build the web site?

iJon

they're working with the in-house Apple web design team

"We’ll be working with Messieurs Rand Hill, Douglas Vincent, and Chad Little of Apple’s web design team."

[evolu]

Some ideas:

Darker backgrounds (more like the new boxes)
Brushed metal throughout.
Panther style tabs.

[iJon]

Originally posted by arn
they're working with the in-house Apple web design team

"We’ll be working with Messieurs Rand Hill, Douglas Vincent, and Chad Little of Apple’s web design team."
yeah, i guess it would help clicking on the link and reading more. silly me.

iJon

[punter]

I hope they redesign it to include new powerbooks and panther! :P

[Nermal]

Every site needs a redesign now and then, it'll be good to have a change. I wonder how different it'll be...

[pmcaleer]

For those in the web design field familiar with Zeldman, this is a beauty of worlds colliding. I'm looking forward to the next site, whenever it rolls out, with a new anticipation. I'm also confident that it'll be better than the current site by leaps and bounds - and the current site isn't too shabby.

[hike77]

If anyone can do the site right, it will be zeldman. I think this is a great development. I can't wait to see what comes out of it, Hopefully it will even make safari better. You'll want your own site to look right in your own browser.

[Powerbook G5]

I have to say, clicking around on the old Apple site is a pretty cool blast from the past...I remember drooling over that PowerBook G3 way back when! I cannot see what the new site may look like, there seems to be so many exciting things happening with Apple lately.

[aje]

Originally posted by iJon
i wonder what other sites these guys have done. all i know thats a pretty heavy work load for 2 guys, im sure the paycheck will be nice though. when they collaborate, do these guys just think of the idea, or do they build the web site?

iJon

in the web design community zeldman is probably one of the most famous designers, known for raving about standards and usability. which is apple all over.

i'd just like to say though, as a web designer apple.com is one of the best sites on the net. easy to navigate, beautiful, very user friendly. its a tall ask to improve on it.

does anyone know if there is one art director who overlooks the whole apple brand (hardware, software, print, screen)? or if there are art directors for each section? would be interesting to know.

[Waluigi]

Originally posted by iJon
i wonder what other sites these guys have done. all i know thats a pretty heavy work load for 2 guys, im sure the paycheck will be nice though. when they collaborate, do these guys just think of the idea, or do they build the web site?

iJon

I'm a professional web designer, and it is just me (who does all of the graphics, flash, and animated gifs, ect), and my partner who is a genious coder from who is attending princeton (comp sci major). We have done lots of sites, just the 2 of us, no problem. Most of our time is actually spent checking to make sure everything is uniform, all the links work, and there are no bugs. If those 2, a web department from apple, and a whole slew of apple employees to test out a beta site before it goes live, it should be a piece of cake (and a very welcomed revision!).

--Waluigi

[Waluigi]

Originally posted by aje
i'd just like to say though, as a web designer apple.com is one of the best sites on the net. easy to navigate, beautiful, very user friendly. its a tall ask to improve on it.

You think apple is easy to navigate, beautiful, and very user friendly? Although it is compared to every other computer companies like dell, sony, gateway, ect, it is nothing compared to www.yale.edu which in my opinion is the best web site for navigation for a huge amount of content. That is the holy grail of navigation, and simplicity. It makes me cry out of joy with what they have done over at Yale.

--Waluigi

[zoozx]

Not impressed with either of those Co.'s web sites.

[aje]

Originally posted by Waluigi
You think apple is easy to navigate, beautiful, and very user friendly? Although it is compared to every other computer companies like dell, sony, gateway, ect, it is nothing compared to www.yale.edu which in my opinion is the best web site for navigation for a huge amount of content. That is the holy grail of navigation, and simplicity. It makes me cry out of joy with what they have done over at Yale.

--Waluigi

universities are notorious for bad navigation systems, but i don’t see what the big deal is with yale?

i tried to find out about post-grad multimedia/design courses and found it frustrating, therefore it fails in my view.

it was frustrating because there was no clear path for me to find out what i wanted to know

[aje]

Originally posted by zoozx
Not impressed with either of those Co.'s web sites.

well what are you impressed with?

[friendlyghost]

Zeldman really is a leader in accessable standards-based design and it's excellent to be hear he'll be working on the redesign.

He's genuinely knowledgable on standards-based design, which allows sites to be viewed well on numorous browsers whether they are Safari, IE, a little handheld one, or a browser for the blind. The opposite of this intelligent approach is when you see sites that say "Must have Internet Explorer 6 to use this site." Everyone in the mac community should be very pleased zeldman is on board.

I you consider yourself a web developer or designer you owe it to yourself to pick up his book Designing with Web Standards.

[bikertwin]

Originally posted by aje
universities are notorious for bad navigation systems, but i don’t see what the big deal is with yale?

i tried to find out about post-grad multimedia/design courses and found it frustrating, therefore it fails in my view.

it was frustrating because there was no clear path for me to find out what i wanted to know

Hmmm. Academics-->Professional Schools-->School of Art-->Areas of Study. Shows you all the post-grad courses.

4 clicks.;)

[themadchemist]

I guess everyone, even apple, thinks that the OS X theme is no longer chic (re: macrumors skins)...

I still like it, but it is getting overdone. I can't wait to see what they cook up; I'm sure it'll be great.

The nice thing about Apple's site is that the design is so radically different from every other tech software/hardware company's design...Sort of like the company itself.

If you go to microsoft or to dell or even to beloved IBM, the home pages are extremely similar, with key links at the top and more detailed links on the side...both textual, of course. In the case of Dell and IBM, several popular products can be found toward the bottom center of the page.

Ah, I hope that no matter what the change, Apple keeps its unique design, as a testament to its unique place in the computing world.

edit: Look at a Bauhaus-esque design, like that of the G5, for the new site.

Blocky? Cheese-gratey? Aluminum? We'll see.

[aje]

Originally posted by bikertwin
Hmmm. Academics-->Professional Schools-->School of Art-->Areas of Study. Shows you all the post-grad courses.

4 clicks.;)
yeah i found it :)

but it was frustrating - not to mention the total change in navigation/design once you get into the seperate schools

i've seen better nav systems for uni's where the first level is:

prospective students, current students, staff, alumni (and then another navigation system to the side which has all the usual contact, academic systems etc...

much easier as they identify there users straight away, whereas yale doesn't.

"website design 101 - identify your users"

[VirtualInsanity]

Why is this important...?

[Powerbook G5]

I'm not too worried about the site becoming difficult to navigate or anything. This is Apple, afterall, and whatever they do to their main website, it's going to be stunning. They need to have a professional, eloquent site in order to stand out and show what makes Apple who they are. I know they'll make sure no matter what the design will be, it will be a winner.

[VirtualInsanity]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I'm not too worried about the site becoming difficult to navigate or anything. This is Apple, afterall, and whatever they do to their main website, it's going to be stunning. They need to have a professional, eloquent site in order to stand out and show what makes Apple who they are. I know they'll make sure no matter what the design will be, it will be a winner.

Isnt that a little...sugary?

Apple is company that is excellent at innovation and design...but not evertything it does or creates like the new website is analogous to the shining gardens of babylon. Come on, they are just a company

[xtekdiver]

As a recent convert to web standards, I think Apple is very savy to hire these two gurus of web design. If you do web design you should read Zeldman's book Designing with web standards (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0735712018/qid=1062036512/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-3415182-9327858?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

This book will completely change the way you approach web design. Apple always seems to be on the cutting edge and knows how to do things right. It's kinda funny, but after reading Zeldman's book I decided to see if ASP.Net server controls HTML output would validate....they don't. MS just doesn't get it. Every day there seems to be a reminder that being a "switcher" was the right decision for me to make. Now where is that PHP book?...

[Zwiggles]

Originally posted by Waluigi
You think apple is easy to navigate, beautiful, and very user friendly? Although it is compared to every other computer companies like dell, sony, gateway, ect, it is nothing compared to www.yale.edu which in my opinion is the best web site for navigation for a huge amount of content. That is the holy grail of navigation, and simplicity.
--Waluigi

I totally, 100% agree that this is a site/sight that exudes crystal clear communication. Simplicity is very under-rated these days. Despite the beauty of Yale's site, apple.com doesn't lag that far behind.
I also think that this gives us some indication of how far panther may be away.

[Macette]

Zeldman is cool. His book is absolutely without a doubt the best computer-nerd book I've ever read (it's laugh-out-loud funny in places), he's consise, informative, etc etc. I don't think whether the site is brushed metal or not is really going to bother him... my guess is that his crew will be making the html sleek and lovely, and the CSS impressive, so that the pages load quickly and are accessible to everyone.

Yay for Zeldman (does anyone want to start a Zeldman fanclub with me? Actually, I'm sure there's already one out there.)

[xtekdiver]

Originally posted by Nermal
Every site needs a redesign now and then, it'll be good to have a change. I wonder how different it'll be...

My guess: it will reflect the metallic paradigm of the G5. Notice how Apple.com seems to blend with the industrial design of Apple's hardware and OS. Notice also the changes in the Aqua interface for Panther. We went from colors with the original imacs, to a more clear, white, and grey plastic look with the newer imac, G4 Tower, cinema display, and Aqua; and now to a brushed metal look with the G5, Powerbooks (15" someday), Panther, iSight, iApps, and Xserver. My bet is that the new web site will reflect this subtle shift in Apple's industrial design. Look at the .Mac page. It may not look like that, but I am betting it will be similar; if I were to describe it I would say a "harder edge", whereas the current site has a "softer glow". Just my 2cents.

[Powerbook G5]

Originally posted by VirtualInsanity
Isnt that a little...sugary?

Apple is company that is excellent at innovation and design...but not evertything it does or creates like the new website is analogous to the shining gardens of babylon. Come on, they are just a company

I know they aren't perfect, but this is their main site, so Apple of all people knows that it has to be as well executed as possible. They aren't going to skimp out on innovation and design on this project. When people go to Apple.com, they are going to judge the company on how they present themselves.

[Frobozz]

This is a quote from one of the outside consultants about the Apple.com redesign. For those of you unfamiliar, a redesign may or may not have anything to do with the display layer.

"Update: To clear up some confusion and speculation, this does not imply a visual redesign is in the works. Happy Cog and Stopdesign will be consulting with the in-house team, providing guidance and a bit of a jump start as they explore the waters of web standards and forward-thinking design."

If there are any visual changes, I'm expecting something more subtle. It will probably be designed by the in-house team.

Apple's main sections are easy to navigate but I find their knowledge base and developer section to be very difficult to find what your'e looking for. It's almost as if they built tunnels around some of the other subjects, even though they're directly related. Some improvement has been done recently in the knowledge base, but the developer site need major work.

[NAG]

Originally posted by aje
universities are notorious for bad navigation systems

I know some university sites where they purposefully make it nearly impossible to navigate anywhere quickly. Sheesh, users are less likely to stay longer when you frustrate them.

Anyway, as previously mentioned, apple.com has a few areas that could use some fixing.

[ryaxnb]

They've already got a pretty good site design (though it should be made in a lighter color, in my opinion), so I hope they don't make it worse.

[DStaal]

THIS. WILL. ROCK.

Zeldman does visually stunning, easy to use, lean, standards compliant sites, and has for as long as I've followed the field. I'm looking forward to whatever they come up with. (Even if it doesn't change the look at all the HTML will be worth reading.)

Ok, I'm done being a Zeldman fanboy. People, if you are going to argue about good site design, lets look at some good ones... Arguably the best around is Google (http://www.google.com/), or you could check out Zeldman's own site (http://www.zeldman.com/), or any of the sites he links to (http://www.zeldman.com/externals/).

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by Keith Purfield
I think it'll be a brushed metal design. They seem to like Metal now.

if they do, ill never go to the site again. maybe website themes to let us choose?

[MarksEvilTwin]

Removed

[sawaguchishinji]

Originally posted by iJon
i wonder what other sites these guys have done...
Apple hiring Zeldman to redesign their website means only one thing. It's gonna be fast, compatible with any browser, CSS. It's gonna be great!

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by VirtualInsanity
Apple is company that is excellent at innovation and design...but not evertything it does or creates like the new website is analogous to the shining gardens of babylon. Come on, they are just a company

HANGING Gardens, incidentally :D

[MightyB]

ah...posts like this call for a visit to the waybackmachine!!!

http://web.archive.org/web/*/apple.com

ENJOY!!!

[Powerbook G5]

Does Apple really have a problem with browser standards? I know I haven't tried viewing Apple.com on all browsers, but before I switched, I pulled their page of flawlessly with both IE and Netscape on Windows and it works great with IE, Netscape, and Opera on the Mac, too. If this really is just to tighten up its coding and interface, then maybe they will at least just update the OS X look to the Panther style, such as the tabbed buttons, toned down Aqua, etc. That might be a decent little evolution to the design. Nothing radical--just different.

[ColoJohnBoy]

I hope it's "thrusty"!!!

(For Bowie fans out there - Poughkeepsie was awesome!!!!)

[ITMediaCo]

The biggest problem I see with Apple's site is the lack of consistency.

They clearly aren't using a content management system for the entire site... Many sections and pages still follow their previous design systems (Apple does enjoy changing fonts).

Their support site is also in need of major revamping to get up to par with sites like Dell or HP.

[aje]

Originally posted by Zwiggles
I totally, 100% agree that this is a site/sight that exudes crystal clear communication. Simplicity is very under-rated these days. Despite the beauty of Yale's site, apple.com doesn't lag that far behind.
I also think that this gives us some indication of how far panther may be away.

did you guys design yale or something???? :)

yale needs work in my humble opinion - first of all the buttons are confusing because on one level "white" represents buttons, "yellow" selected, then on the next level, "yellow" is a button and then white becomes a heading. its all about consistency - zeldman would get very upset with yale :)

[greenstork]

Zeldman and Bowman are two great web designers, this is an outstanding move.

My guess is that Apple is looking to rework their site into XHTML and CSS if for any reason at all, to lessen their bandwith load. By switching to this format, they could reasonably make their pages 30-40% smaller files. This may not matter to Joe Schmoe's cheesy website but to a popular site like Apple.com, that's going to save them millions that would normally be sent to Akamai.

In addition to preaching web standards, both happen to be quite savvy with content management systems.

Accesibility is a bigger deal than most of you seem to understand. The next generation (or current for that matter) of web devices allows people to surf websites from phones, PDA's, and a host of new exciting things to come. In order for this to work correctly, and render nicely styled pages, content must be separate from style. CSS and XHTML allows sites to render for screen, print, and in the future phones, PDA's, you name it. This is the future of web design.

Zeldman and Bowman are on the leading edge of designing in this way.

edit: I think I should clear up that they could redesign and implement these standards while keeping the exact same look and feel for the Apple website. What they have the potential to do for the website internally is what I think is exciting for Apple.

[arn]

Update: A followup post on StopDesign.com (http://www.stopdesign.com/) claims that a visual redesign is not necessarily in the works:

To clear up some confusion and speculation, this does not imply a visual redesign is in the works. Happy Cog and Stopdesign will be consulting with the in-house team, providing guidance and a bit of a jump start as they explore the waters of web standards and forward-thinking design.

[edenwaith]

If there was a subtle change made, it would probably be moving to the more metal interface, or perhaps adding a panther pattern to the OS X page. Apple.com is nothing too flashy, but it seems to be kept fairly simple and clean, and standard across pretty much any modern web browser. Now take microsoft.com. If you aren't running IE 6 on a PC, they ditch a bunch of the flashy features, either to restrict non-IE users, or because they realize that too much glitz generally is very difficult to make standard across all browsers and platforms.

I'm probably going to be the odd man out here, but I feel that Apple's web site isn't that easily navigable. They do a good job in featuring their top five items of the moment, and a few more important areas (Quicktime, Mac OS X, Store). Perhaps even making the Hardware and Software links more prominent tabs would help. Ultimately, something like drop down menus with nearly all items (or the top 20 items) might be useful, but then that would probably destroy Apple.com's simplicity.

However, I feel that their store is quite well done. Very straight forward and easy to select items. If I ever go to a site like Dell's, I feel somewhat lost, and end up going through pages and pages worth of options. Also, some of these PC companies are suffering from what Apple had a problem with in the mid-90's...just too many different versions without enough differences between the various models. Perhaps the PC companies would be best off just offering three types of consumer/business machines: 1) no-frills business workstation. 2) A middle of the line computer for either home or business. 3) A work horse for super computing and games.

Apple has done a decent job in trying to draw lines in the sand to differentiate who needs what type of computer, whether it be a PowerMac, an iMac, Powerbook, or iBook.

[Dahl]

There's a difference between usability and design, Apples current site has both. But they can probably update it and make it even better.
The beauty of Apple's brand is how well their design work in various mediums, their print work mirrors their site which mirrors their commericals etc. Always the great use of space, fonts and colors.

I looked at Yale and found it average, the pop up windows are a pain so usability could be better. There's a link to a text version in the top left corner, but you can't see it on my monitor ( I found it by accident ) and my monitor is color calibrated. The design is bland and it could use some life. It can still be conservative and elegant, without being boring.
Is the blue color Yale's school colors ?

Amazon is still the best or at least one of the very best when it comes to site design, though I don't know how it works on all the browsers.

[Powerbook G5]

I've had a few glitches here and there with Amazon with IE 5 under OS 9. Not sure what it could be, but sometimes I have to use the Dell in order to view my order status and such.

[redAPPLE]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I have to say, clicking around on the old Apple site is a pretty cool blast from the past...I remember drooling over that PowerBook G3 way back when! I cannot see what the new site may look like, there seems to be so many exciting things happening with Apple lately.

well, many exciting things are happening, everything but revised PowerBooks.

:eek:

[gotohamish]

But I heard they were hired to make it.......snappier ...

[trianglejuice]

Originally posted by VirtualInsanity
Why is this important...?

A site that's better than the previous version, will draw more attention and will also convince possible costumers even faster to buy Apple products.

TJ.

[Mac Maven]

zeldman.com is a fine site, although I disagree with his default color scheme, which is too bright, IMO. The weird thing about this story, though, is that the recruits are so forthcoming about the details of their Apple relationship. A major technology company shouldn't have to admit that it can't design its own website. If I were Apple's web team, I wouldn't be too pleased with Zeldman and the other fellow yakking about their inadequacies. Oh, and I too concur with the comment that Amazon is one of the best sites around. One of the other posters commented that he had problems using it with the classic Mac OS and IE, but I've never had any such difficulty.

[mistersquid]

Originally posted by Waluigi
You think apple is easy to navigate, beautiful, and very user friendly? Although it is compared to every other computer companies like dell, sony, gateway, ect, it is nothing compared to www.yale.edu which in my opinion is the best web site for navigation for a huge amount of content. That is the holy grail of navigation, and simplicity. It makes me cry out of joy with what they have done over at Yale.

--Waluigi

With all due respect, if Apple's website had been designed similarly to Yale's, I would have had a hard time dropping a couple K on a Macintosh. The Yale site is nothing spectacular (read boring) and, in my opinion, doesn't present a "huge amount of content" in a particularly understandable way.

[trianglejuice]

Originally posted by mistersquid
With all due respect, if Apple's website had been designed similarly to Yale's, I would have had a hard time dropping a couple K on a Macintosh. The Yale site is nothing spectacular (read boring) and, in my opinion, doesn't present a "huge amount of content" in a particularly understandable way.

Have to agree with you!
Ok, the main page's JavaScript is cool, but the rest is so <homer>boring</homer>!

[cb911]

whoa!:eek: i just had a look at the web archive of Apple's pre-OS X site. i'd never even seen that before. i've only known Apple since the introduction of OS X.

i hope the site moves away from the aqua look a bit. the Panther look is a welcome change.

[iGav]

*falls to knees* Thank god they've not hired Jakob Nielson otherwise we'd all be doomed!!! :eek: :eek: :p

As for the Yale site... can't say I was impressed... another edu. site... what more can I say...

For simple usability...

http://www.fabrica.it/

isn't bad at all.... sometimes you just can't go wrong with white.... ;)

[NHMac]

Would love to see less reliance on images where plain text would do... ever try to get the apple on a modem?

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by iGAV
*falls to knees* Thank god they've not hired Jakob Nielson otherwise we'd all be doomed!!! :eek: :eek: :p

Ha, that's pretty funny. Nielsen comes up all the time in usability studies in my grad work (Educational Technology). He knows his stuff.

But, damn, if he doesn't kill form in favor of function. Apple does a great job with both. ;)

[railthinner]

I've been reading alistapart.com for a long time and have looked at a lot of sites of those who are following web standards and css design and while I think there on the money in most regards I have to say that the designs are getting boring. Two or three columns, dashed or dotted lines, bold headings with a little icon of some sort to the left, nice line spacing, bright background. Most of these sites are great, don't get me wrong, but when you get a glut of sites that all have basically the same look it starts to become a drag. (if you go to a listapart.com or happycog and start surfing around you'll see what I mean) What I'm hoping to see is a new set of demands placed on these guys by Apple that should really push their style to new heights. That will be cool.

By the way to the person that inferred Apple should try to keep this secret -- that's silly. Companies hire consultants all the time for various tasks, and they've picked some good ones.

[greenstork]

Originally posted by Mac Maven
zeldman.com is a fine site, although I disagree with his default color scheme, which is too bright, IMO.

You have the option to pick 4 different color schemes on the zeldman.com site. Ahhh the beauty of CSS.

[DrunkenMoNk]

Originally posted by railthinner
Two or three columns, dashed or dotted lines, bold headings with a little icon of some sort to the left, nice line spacing, bright background.

I understand that your seeing a pattern, but I still found your description quite amusing. Excluding Flash sites, you've probably just described almost every website in existance (Surprised you left out single column layouts with solid borders and muted backgrounds).

Douglas Bowman and Jeffrey Zeldman are at the forefront of the web standards movement, who else would better suit Apple?

[greenstork]

Originally posted by railthinner
What I'm hoping to see is a new set of demands placed on these guys by Apple that should really push their style to new heights. That will be cool.


It's not these guys that are the problem, it's browser innovation. This is one of the key issues that web standards attempts to address. If you are trying to design a site that needs to work on all browsers, you are limited by the weakest link (or the weakest browser in this case). If Microsoft or Apple or Mozilla would start to take browsers (and CSS) to the next level, you might see more interesting CSS designed websites. With Netscape going under and all innovation of IE put on hold for 3 years, how can anyone expect to innovate, the tools simply aren't there. Yes, you could use javascript and flash or other flashy design languages however, these languages are not conducive to designing with web standards. They also have trouble rendering on the next generation of web devices (phones, PDA's, etc.) Browser innovation will ultimately enable more exciting CSS design that is accesible for everyone.

[redshifter]

I think Zeldman and Bowman are excellent choices for the job of making Apple.com better. However, I heard a rumor today that they got fired by Apple for divulging the fact that they were working on the project. Anyone know anything about that? :confused:

[railthinner]

Originally posted by greenstork
It's not these guys that are the problem, it's browser innovation.

Agreed. I don't think they're a problem, and honestly I'm thankful for a lot of their advocacy. I'm just pointing out some of my observations regarding alot of these sites.

DrunkMonk: I get what you mean, but I think if you check out most of the newer compliant sites, you'll see what I'm talking about as well.

I really don't have much difficulty creating Table based sites that look and function essentially exactly the same across browsers and platforms. And personally I think a combination of CSS, and sliced images layed out with proper HTML tables provides a lot more variety. Creatively, I can do a hell of a lot more in Image Ready or Fireworks than CSS alone can ever allow. I liked sliced up menus etc. and it's still possible to produce an excellent site this way. CSS is essential for text no matter what though.

[aje]

Originally posted by railthinner

Fireworks than CSS alone can ever allow. I liked sliced up menus etc. and it's still possible to produce an excellent site this way. CSS is essential for text no matter what though.

i agree totally

however - i just made a css only site and the render/load time is awesome :)

[greenstork]

Originally posted by railthinner
I can do a hell of a lot more in Image Ready or Fireworks than CSS alone can ever allow.

I'm not sure you are fully aware of what CSS can do. Check out the CSS Zen Garden to see what I am talking about:

CSS Zen Garden (http://www.csszengarden.com/)

In my opinion, CSS can do as much or more than standard HTML with tables. And all at a fraction of the load time.

[railthinner]

I can't just fall off silent.

No, I get it really. Hmmm maybe on top of catching up on css and xhtml I should take a creative writing course so I can explain myself thoroughly and irrefutably.

Zen Garden is more of what I love to see. It's great--definately a good sign.

Back to Apple, I'm sure they'll pull off a mighty spiffy site.

[sawaguchishinji]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Does Apple really have a problem with browser standards? I know I haven't tried viewing Apple.com on all browsers, but before I switched, I pulled their page of flawlessly with both IE and Netscape on Windows and it works great with IE, Netscape, and Opera on the Mac, too. If this really is just to tighten up its coding and interface, then maybe they will at least just update the OS X look to the Panther style, such as the tabbed buttons, toned down Aqua, etc. That might be a decent little evolution to the design. Nothing radical--just different.
The website will be rewritten to xhtml/css to make updates easier.

[rjwill246]

Originally posted by Waluigi
You think apple is easy to navigate, beautiful, and very user friendly? It makes me cry out of joy with what they have done over at Yale.



It is certainly a well done site and compared to other Universities I looked at, it is at the top but the Apple site could not look like that because the two goals could not be more opposite. Apple has to attract, sell themselves a bit, inform and sell more. The Yale goal is to lay out an index so that you can get information rapidly and directly... selling? only a little. The HP site has more of the Yale look to it but they have not made it clear where you go once you get to the opening page. Once into that site it is not simple to navigate either.
Apple's browser look is certanly good. I hope they keep that simplicity and clarity and not go down the path of their commercials.

[yuin]

Is this (http://www.apple.com/switch/stories/03/index4.html) a start? It has a blue Apple logo in it. Hmmm...

[zach]

Originally posted by yuin
Is this (http://www.apple.com/switch/stories/03/index4.html) a start? It has a blue Apple logo in it. Hmmm...

Could be, could be. The tabs do have that sorta toned down aqua look to them, besides adding the blue logo.

I don't know, though. That could just be some experiment or other. Personally, I think if Apple really is redesigning their site, it would be a bit more drastic than this.

<edit> after screwing around a bit, i found this other page with the same differences. Check it (http://www.apple.com/switch/stories/03/index3.html) </edit>

<edit again>
hunh. these pages have a switch tab....
does this foretell the restart of the switch campaign?

probably not, but weird.
</edit again>

[Rower_CPU]

I'm gonna say a great big "NO" to the pages linked above.

CSS only used for fonts, font tags still left in the code and messy table-based layout scream "I'm not Zeldman's work".

I think those are just vestiges of older designs...