Looking forward to seeing the MTV VMA's....(HOT!!!)

[edesignuk]

...looks like it was very entertaining (http://www.what2see.com/) :eek: :D

It'll air here 2moro night @ 8pm (I think) on MTV, I'll be sitting on the edge of my seat ;)

edit: changed title, maybe will get some attention now?
edit2: DAMMIT! It didn't change the main thread title, oh well...

[edesignuk]

I cannot believe that no one is interested in this!?! Maybe I should have titled the thread differently?
Believe me, check the link out, it's well worth your time :D

[ExoticFish]

well well well, three hoochies on stage...

[britboy]

hehe. I'll bet that caused a few screams amongst the audience. A pair of slappers like britney and christina I can understand, but madonna? I thought she was happily married? Then again, perhaps that was Guy Richie goes for.......;)

How long 'till they have live sex on stage at the MTV awards? :eek:

[RobVanDam]

How long 'till they have live sex on stage at the MTV awards?7 years.

[3rdpath]

one has-been and two soon to be forgetten marginally talented skanks...and the best they can muster is a kiss? :rolleyes:

beyond boring.

[wdlove]

It was done for publicity. The old saying that there is no bad publicity, the point is to be noticed. Just a lot of poor acting!

[MrMacMan]

I saw it live...

It was pretty good and cool but still no Britney/Christina :rolleyes:

Madonna is cool, but it was all an act. :(
:p

[Backtothemac]

Yea, it would have been nice to see Britney and Christina going at it ;)

[mactastic]

Oh man this thread's gonna need an "R" rating pretty quick.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
the madonna/brittney thing had *me* hard, and i'm gay! but then, i'm gay.
pnw


Okay, wow, a bit too much sharing goin' on here. ;)


Lethal

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Yea, it would have been nice to see Britney and Christina going at it ;)

Haha, someone got it! :p

Paul -- A little too much info... you could have inferred it or something. :rolleyes:

[NavyIntel007]

That was the least real kiss I've ever seen. All three of them (well maybe not Aguillera cause she likes that stuff) looked awkward going into it.

Completely fake. If I want to see washout dirty whores make out I'll rejoin my fraternity. Do they honestly think making out with each other is going to sell more albums? If they did a pr0n, it would sell more pr0n but come on. The three of them are doing more and more to isolate themselves from their original fan base without the possibility of gaining new ground (you think guys are going to buy any of those albums just cause they made out on stage? PLEASE).

[aethier]

I saw it when it was live, the kiss between modana and britney is only like 2 seconds, but you should have seen 'ol justins face... while showing his face you just about miss the whole of christina and modona's kiss..

aethier

[FriarTuck]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Yea, it would have been nice to see Britney and Christina going at it ;)

This is only slightly more fake (http://www.o2sk8.com/forum/christina_brit_ps.jpg) than what apparently happened on MTV last night.

I started watching MTV 22 years ago. They had like 30 videos and ran "Pump Up the Volume" once an hour as filler. It was better then.

[aethier]

Originally posted by FriarTuck
This is only slightly more fake (http://www.o2sk8.com/forum/christina_brit_ps.jpg) than what apparently happened on MTV last night.


WEll that guy has pretty good photo shop skills

aethier

[mactastic]

Yeah, I liked the old skool MTV. Back when they mostly showed videos, and those videos were mostly concert footage of the groups. Ah the good old days when I looked forward to the headbangers ball...

[rainman::|:|]

it wasn't meant to be real, or make us think they're "going at it" or anything, it was part of a piece of performance art. Mostly, it's there to show that Madonna can still be risque, and that Brittney isn't as risque as she can be. That it got everyone talking shows it served it's purpose, to keep "madonna" as a household name. can you blame her (and spears as well) for not wanting to fade into obscurity?

i don't get why some people are so harsh. i mean, it's the VMA, what did you expect if not fakeness???

and btw, the comment i made earlier was a saying, it can't be "too much info" because it's not info. it's a saying! if you think about it, it doesn't make any sense, which is why i said it-- lighten up everyone. :rolleyes:

pnw

[Megaquad]

In 10-20 years MTV will become hardcore porn channel if it continues at present rate... tsk tsk
They just continue brainwashing children.

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by Megaquad
In 10-20 years MTV will become hardcore porn channel if it continues at present rate... tsk tsk
They just continue brainwashing children.

yeah, in 10+ years they've gone to showing almost total nudity to showing two women stage kiss.

*falls over shocked*

what brainwashing exactly? I agree that MTV is too sex-based, and promotes unhealthy body images on impressionable adolescents, but it's not like MTV started that little trend. Our society is shallow, MTV or not.

anyway i think the children will survive.

pnw

[scem0]

i agree with everything paul has said.

Originally posted by aethier
I saw it when it was live, the kiss between modana and britney is only like 2 seconds, but you should have seen 'ol justins face... while showing his face you just about miss the whole of christina and modona's kiss..

aethier

No - Mary J. Blige's face at the beginning of the performance was priceless. When Xtina and Brittney were on the stage (w/o madonna) she had the biggest look of disguist. It was pretty funny.

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
That was the least real kiss I've ever seen. All three of them (well maybe not Aguillera cause she likes that stuff) looked awkward going into it.

Completely fake. If I want to see washout dirty whores make out I'll rejoin my fraternity. Do they honestly think making out with each other is going to sell more albums? If they did a pr0n, it would sell more pr0n but come on. The three of them are doing more and more to isolate themselves from their original fan base without the possibility of gaining new ground (you think guys are going to buy any of those albums just cause they made out on stage? PLEASE).

I don't think they did it to sell albums...

I think they did it just for the shock value... and probably some money. And Xtina does that kind of **** just to show people that she isn't afraid to be sexual.

I like Xtina. Brittney is ok. Madonna is really cool, but I'm not a big fan of hers or anything.

Originally posted by 3rdpath
one has-been and two soon to be forgetten marginally talented skanks...and the best they can muster is a kiss? :rolleyes:

beyond boring.

christina aguilera...... marginally talented!??!?! She is an amazing singer, a good dancer, and she isn't afraid to be what she is. I think she is very brave, and an awesome entertainer - and definitely not 'marginally talented'

madonna..... a has-been?!?!? Madonna has major staying power. I tend to think of her as being in a whole nother plane of stardom as xtina and brittney.

And brittney spears isn't too talented at singing, but she is a damn good dancer and entertainer.

And about it being the 'best they could muster' - what do you want them to do? Have sex on the stage? This thread has already established that we have to wait 7 years for that ;).

scem0

[MrMacMan]

Yeah all shock value.

Do you really think anyone takes this serious?

I hope not, they might lose (britney) her grip on middle america...

;)

[mrjamin]

Originally posted by 3rdpath
one has-been and two soon to be forgetten marginally talented skanks...and the best they can muster is a kiss? :rolleyes:

beyond boring.

i disagree with the your comment on aguilera's talent - you can't deny she does have a phonenal voice, her problem is that its no particularly unique and she feels the need to use her body to sell her records. I guess it works though... doesn't mean its right.

[mrjamin]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
That was the least real kiss I've ever seen

http://msnbc.com/c/0/176/815/10x7/030828_mtv_05.jpg

do i see a tongue there? Looks pretty real from the photos - haven't seen the actual thing yet.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by mrjamin

do i see a tongue there? Looks pretty real from the photos - haven't seen the actual thing yet.

i think he means real as in "they felt some passion" or something.

i don't really expect anything more from mtv or tv in general, but it doesn't mean i don't laugh at how sad those people are (both the "performers"/sluts and the people who get all into them)

[mrjamin]

to be honest, i'm not a big fan of lesbians (in that they don't "do it" for me). Seems kinda unnatural to me, makes me feel the same when i see 2 guys kissing. No offence meant to any people of either inclination, i'm not homophobic or [whatever-the-term-for-lesbian]phobic, I guess i just don't like seeing people kissing!

[applemacdude]

Does that mean that they're lesbians now?;) So what if they kissed? let them be...Let d owhatever they want...

[cb911]

oh man! is there going to be a stream of that or something?

i don't have cable TV! :(

[iJon]

well i heard about this today becuase i had to much homework the night it aired. i downloaded the video and it was amazing. it was one of the coolest things i have ever seen ;) 3 good looking girls kissing, wow

iJon

[applemacdude]

Originally posted by iJon
well i heard about this today becuase i had to much homework the night it aired. i downloaded the video and it was amazing. it was one of the coolest things i have ever seen ;) 3 good looking girls kissing, wow

iJon


Yeah wasn't it great? (hormones starting to work up brb lol):D 3 sexy girls kissing. What else do you want? Now if teh could do it with their ropa off...hheeh:D :D :D

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by cb911
oh man! is there going to be a stream of that or something?

i don't have cable TV! :(

Um...

The link is the first post.

Find the video from there.

It was cool, but you know the preformance itself was just suprising, nothing vocally excellent... Madonna's Voice cracked a little :eek:

[rainman::|:|]

i was waiting for someone to point out the "lesbian" angle ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: madonna was dressed up as a MAN, the GROOM in the wedding, so it was intended as kind of a duality-wedding kiss... it wasn't, at least artistically, meant to be lesbian...

and yeah, if you can't stand to see gay people kiss, it's kind of sad. if it's everyone in general tho, i can definitely see where you're coming from, it's obnoxious to see someone getting lip-service in a mall... which makes it even more frustrating, that gay people can't even hold hands in public without risk of injury, and straight people can damn near have sex out in the open. that's really just gross.

sorry, i know you're not looking for criticism, it was just time for Explain the Gays hour.

:)
pnw

[Backtothemac]

Ok, I just saw the video of this, and what a joke. I cannot believe that that 1 second kiss made every major news site. They billed it as if they were making out on stage.

Question. If Madonna and Britney made a XXX 1 hour long movie, how much would you pay for it, and how many do you think would sell world wide?

That question was posed to me today, and the response from some people was a little shocking.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Question. If Madonna and Britney made a XXX 1 hour long movie, how much would you pay for it, and how many do you think would sell world wide?

That question was posed to me today, and the response from some people was a little shocking.

1 hour? probably 50 bucks.

they'd sell a ton

[Daveman Deluxe]

Originally posted by mrjamin
i disagree with the your comment on aguilera's talent - you can't deny she does have a phonenal voice, her problem is that its no particularly unique and she feels the need to use her body to sell her records. I guess it works though... doesn't mean its right.

People who think Aguilera (or Spears, of Aiken, or any pop musician) is a talented singer are misguided. They clearly haven't heard Pavarotti, The Three Tenors, or any of the famous singers of opera and Broadway. My voice teacher (I'm a music major) could teach me how to sing like Justin Timberlake in under a year. It will take almost four years to be able to sing a full recital with opera arias in four languages as well as Broadway musicals and (if I want to) at least eight to sing in an opera.

If you want to hear talented singers, run away from pop music, punk music, and anything else Billboard has a chart for. Pick up some plainchant or go to an opera.

The more music I listen to, the more I hate most pop music.

And don't get me started about the quality of music composition today.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
People who think Aguilera (or Spears, of Aiken, or any pop musician) is a talented singer are misguided. They clearly haven't heard Pavarotti, The Three Tenors, or any of the famous singers of opera and Broadway. My voice teacher (I'm a music major) could teach me how to sing like Justin Timberlake in under a year. It will take almost four years to be able to sing a full recital with opera arias in four languages as well as Broadway musicals and (if I want to) at least eight to sing in an opera.

If you want to hear talented singers, run away from pop music, punk music, and anything else Billboard has a chart for. Pick up some plainchant or go to an opera.

The more music I listen to, the more I hate most pop music.

And don't get me started about the quality of music composition today.

i personally can't stand most pop music. don't listen to the radio. hate it.

that said, i don't like listening to opera, or even really classical music. why? it's not that i don't understand that they're talented people, it's just that it doesn't grab me

when i'm pissed about a relationship or something, and i throw on the latest rise against album (today) then it totally fires me up. when i'm thinking about how this country is heading in the wrong direction, and i throw on my boy sets fire or whatever, i get fired up big time.

i could make a very technically skilled animation, but if it doesn't get people laughing or crying, who cares? ya know?

[vniow]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
which makes it even more frustrating, that gay people can't even hold hands in public without risk of injury, and straight people can damn near have sex out in the open. that's really just gross.


Unless you're hot lezzie sluts apparently.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by vniow
Unless you're hot lezzie sluts apparently.

well duh. you of all people should know this! hello. iran? la la la la la la la la la ;)

[iJon]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Ok, I just saw the video of this, and what a joke. I cannot believe that that 1 second kiss made every major news site. They billed it as if they were making out on stage.

Question. If Madonna and Britney made a XXX 1 hour long movie, how much would you pay for it, and how many do you think would sell world wide?

That question was posed to me today, and the response from some people was a little shocking.
i'd kazaa it, no need to pay. although something quality like that would deserve to be paid for, and i would probably cave, and then have my ass kicked by my girlfriend.

iJon

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
People who think Aguilera (or Spears, of Aiken, or any pop musician) is a talented singer are misguided. They clearly haven't heard Pavarotti, The Three Tenors, or any of the famous singers of opera and Broadway. My voice teacher (I'm a music major) could teach me how to sing like Justin Timberlake in under a year. It will take almost four years to be able to sing a full recital with opera arias in four languages as well as Broadway musicals and (if I want to) at least eight to sing in an opera.

If you want to hear talented singers, run away from pop music, punk music, and anything else Billboard has a chart for. Pick up some plainchant or go to an opera.

The more music I listen to, the more I hate most pop music.

And don't get me started about the quality of music composition today.

The fact is, many people like the sound of pop (or rock/ rap/ punk/ country/ whatever) music - why does it matter if the singers are "talented" or not?

Sorry, but for me, music is about enjoyment, not art.

Example: Finnegans Wake by James Joyce is considered by many literary experts to be a masterpiece and a stunning display of Joyce's talent... but it is almost totally unintelligible and a nightmare to actually try to read.

Literature, like music, can be undertaken as an intellectual exercise, but for many, it's simply about liking what you read/ hear. If you enjoy it, who cares what the "talent" level of the artist is?

[tazo]

Originally posted by mrjamin
to be honest, i'm not a big fan of lesbians (in that they don't "do it" for me). Seems kinda unnatural to me, makes me feel the same when i see 2 guys kissing. No offence meant to any people of either inclination, i'm not homophobic or [whatever-the-term-for-lesbian]phobic, I guess i just don't like seeing people kissing!

no you just dont like seeing gay people kissing;

i feel the same way as you [dont like seeing guys, women kissing].

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
... damn near have sex out in the open. that's really just gross.


:)
pnw


Hey! There's nothing wrong w/having sex out in the open. Not that I would know... or anything... I'm just saying... is all...


Daveman Deluxe,

So, how's the view from atop that horse? ;) It all depends on what qualities you measure in order to define the term "good." You seem to put more weight on the technical side of signing where other people might put more weight on the emotional/soul/heart side of signing. I fall into the "soul" camp. I'd much rather hear a technically average singer whose voice touches my soul than a technically solid singer whose voice touches nothing but air. Ideally I'd like to hear a singer who can deliver both the technical and the emotional elements but that is very, very, very rare to come by. I feel the same way whether it's a play, a book, a movie, a band, whatever just give me something that touches me on an emotional level. If it doesn't move you. If it doesn't touch you. IMO, what's the point? Give me Brody Armstrong (lead vocalist for the Distillers) over Sarah Brightman any day.

One of my favorite movie moments is near the begining of Dead Poets' Society when their text book explains how to graph a poem in order to derive its quality.


Lethal

[Daveman Deluxe]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
The fact is, many people like the sound of pop (or rock/ rap/ punk/ country/ whatever) music - why does it matter if the singers are "talented" or not?

Sorry, but for me, music is about enjoyment, not art.

With the exception of the commentary on what I personally enjoy, my post was not about whether it's all right to enjoy pop music or not. I'm not suggesting music has to be intellectually stimulating to be worthwhile. I also disagree with most of my professors who see no redeeming value whatsoever in pop music (I use the term "pop music" loosely).

What I DO take issue with is the fact that many people will consider these musicians to be the very cream of the crop out of all of the singers in the world, yet have never even considered any singers outside of their own comfort zone.

I prefer the classical singers (including Broadway and musicals) because they sing in such a way as to produce an aesthetically pleasing sound that is surprisingly easy to understand--these people don't study diction for years to sing with poor diction. You don't have to be an intellectual with a degree in music to appreciate that much.

I could go into detail on the finer points of performance and composition, but that's my position in a nutshell. The fact is that music is a very cerebral experience for me. I don't expect that from Joe Average Music Listener, because he hasn't studied music in college. I just can't stand to see mediocre people (in any profession) put on a pedestal. There IS pop music that I like, but it's a limited amount because most of the performers/composers (in my mind) suck.

[Daveman Deluxe]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
You seem to put more weight on the technical side of signing where other people might put more weight on the emotional/soul/heart side of signing. I fall into the "soul" camp. I'd much rather hear a technically average singer whose voice touches my soul than a technically solid singer whose voice touches nothing but air.

You know, when I was heading into college, I had this impression about most professional pianists that they were all about moving the fingers nicely but didn't teach anything about putting "heart" into the music.

I was wrong, and you are too.

I can't speak for Le Conservatoire (in Paris), but where I go to school, the teachers teach you to inject emotion into your voice. I attended weekly recitals most of the year, and attended several junior/senior recitals. When listening, I noticed that the singers who could sing technically well also put the soul into it, and I could understand and empathize with what was being sung about, even if I didn't understand the language!

Emotion, in classical music, derives from a few primary sources: the music itself (i.e., what's written on the page), facial expression/body language, dynamics and tempo, and the ability to use one's voice to evoke emotion. I have several recordings of opera and would be more than happy to share them to prove my point.

Edit: For what it's worth, I got marked down on my last jury for not putting enough pomp and bravado in my singing of "I am the very model" (as the Major-General from Pirates of Penzance).

[scem0]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
People who think Aguilera (or Spears, of Aiken, or any pop musician) is a talented singer are misguided. They clearly haven't heard Pavarotti, The Three Tenors, or any of the famous singers of opera and Broadway. My voice teacher (I'm a music major) could teach me how to sing like Justin Timberlake in under a year. It will take almost four years to be able to sing a full recital with opera arias in four languages as well as Broadway musicals and (if I want to) at least eight to sing in an opera.

If you want to hear talented singers, run away from pop music, punk music, and anything else Billboard has a chart for. Pick up some plainchant or go to an opera.

The more music I listen to, the more I hate most pop music.

And don't get me started about the quality of music composition today.

Comparing opera music to pop music is like comparing apples and bannanas...

I think an opera singer couldn't sing 'dirrty' as well as christina aguilera could, but I think they could sing 'think of me' a lot better.

Basically, they are totally different, and shouldn't be compared.

Plus, pop stardom isn't as singing-centric as opera stardom is. I sure as hell don't want to see Pavarotti get in a miniskirt and dance around suggestively. Despite what people may think, it requires a great deal of skill and effort to be the kind of entertainer brittney spears and christina aguilera are.

So, do you kind of see how they can't be compared now?

And singers like Celine Dion, Mariah Carey, and Christina Aguilera have a very amazing, extraordinary talent, whether you want to admit it or not. But they have to be able to do so much more than just be able to sing (and those 3 vocalists/pop stars are amazing singers whether you will admit it or not). They have to be beautiful 24/7, they have to be able to dance, they have to be able to perform, they have to be vivacious, and they have to work very hard. I'm not saying opera singers don't have to do anything but sing, but I'm saying that you might want to give pop singers a bit more credit because they truly are talented.

scem0

[mac15]

dudes and gals, I think them kissing is kinda hot. All they needed to do is dress up as a school girl and nurse and I would have been in heaven :D

[mrjamin]

Originally posted by tazo
no you just dont like seeing gay people kissing;

i feel the same way as you [dont like seeing guys, women kissing].

no, i don't like seeing people kissing, Its a personal, intimate thing that should be kept private!

By kissing i'm talking the passionate stuff.

Originally posted by paulwhannel
i was waiting for someone to point out the "lesbian" angle ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: madonna was dressed up as a MAN, the GROOM in the wedding, so it was intended as kind of a duality-wedding kiss... it wasn't, at least artistically, meant to be lesbian...

Ah hah, didn't realise that.


Originally posted by paulwhannel
... that gay people can't even hold hands in public without risk of injury, and straight people can damn near have sex out in the open. that's really just gross.

sorry, i know you're not looking for criticism, it was just time for Explain the Gays hour.

:)
pnw

It sucks - makes me sick what people get away with in public.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
You know, when I was heading into college, I had this impression about most professional pianists that they were all about moving the fingers nicely but didn't teach anything about putting "heart" into the music.

I was wrong, and you are too.

I can't speak for Le Conservatoire (in Paris), but where I go to school, the teachers teach you to inject emotion into your voice. I attended weekly recitals most of the year, and attended several junior/senior recitals. When listening, I noticed that the singers who could sing technically well also put the soul into it, and I could understand and empathize with what was being sung about, even if I didn't understand the language!

Emotion, in classical music, derives from a few primary sources: the music itself (i.e., what's written on the page), facial expression/body language, dynamics and tempo, and the ability to use one's voice to evoke emotion. I have several recordings of opera and would be more than happy to share them to prove my point.

Edit: For what it's worth, I got marked down on my last jury for not putting enough pomp and bravado in my singing of "I am the very model" (as the Major-General from Pirates of Penzance).


The point of my post, I apologize if it wasn't clear, was to state my opinion that technique is less imporant that soul/heart/emotion (whatever you want to call it). I was not trying to dis classical music and/or broadway by implying they are more style than substance. My distaste was directed at the performer, not what they are performing.


Lethal

[cb911]

Originally posted by MrMacman
Um...

The link is the first post.

Find the video from there.

It was cool, but you know the preformance itself was just suprising, nothing vocally excellent... Madonna's Voice cracked a little :eek:

oops, missed that link & just went straight to the pics! :p have to get that when i have a chance... ;) *looking over shoulder*

and on the subject of musical talent, i'd have to say that opera singers and the like are in a totally different league, you can't really compare them to pop singers. i saw an interview on TV the other night with Christina Aguilera and she seems to have a good voice. can't say the same for Britney... don't they mess with the vocals heaps in the studio's?

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by edesignuk
I cannot believe that no one is interested in this!?! Maybe I should have titled the thread differently?
Believe me, check the link out, it's well worth your time :D
hehe, and there I was worried that no one cared about my little thread :) :D ;)

[cb911]

Originally posted by edesignuk
hehe, and there I was worried that no one cared about my little thread :) :D ;)

oh no, this is a great thread!! :D

does anyone know if there's somewhere you can get the whole clip of when those 3 were on stage, like their whole 'act'? was this at the beginning or the end of the show?

[mactastic]

It was worse when Michael Jackson kissed Lisa Marie that one year, so don't think I'm not happy just 'cuz it was a girl on girl thing! I just don't want to have to see anyone gettin in on in public, gay or straight. Get a damn room. :p

Plus the only reason this was on all the news sites is because it was the only interesting moment of the evening!

[job]

i found it funny that britney and christina did not kiss. i wonder why. :rolleyes:

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by job
i found it funny that britney and christina did not kiss. i wonder why. :rolleyes:

Ha.

That would get more laughs... but it might rune their reps!

:rolleyes:

Its all Madonna's crazy stuff.

[scem0]

Yes, I think madonna is mainly responsible for this scandalous behavior... ;)

Xtina probably thought it was a good idea too.....

They are dirrty little girls.....

(you gotta use 2 r's ;))

Brittney Spears was probably bribed ;).

scem0

[Stelliform]

Finally saw the big Kiss. It was rather weak. It was open mouth, but I would give it maybe .5 seconds to 1 second. I would rather a make out session. ;)

[Daveman Deluxe]

A couple of good PVP strips from the past:

http://pvponline.com/archive/2002/pvp20021108.gif
http://pvponline.com/archive/2002/pvp20021114.gif

:D :D :rolleyes:

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by Daveman Deluxe
A couple of good PVP strips from the past:

http://pvponline.com/archive/2002/pvp20021108.gif
http://pvponline.com/archive/2002/pvp20021114.gif

:D :D :rolleyes:


LOL


Lethal

[Daveman Deluxe]

My favorite part is the fact that in the second strip, Francis just sits there with that blank expression on his face the whole time.

BTW, the two strips are related.