PDA

View Full Version : Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard 'Finalized'?




Pages : [1] 2

xUKHCx
Oct 9, 2007, 05:39 PM
AppleInsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=3282) thinks so

A source tells AppleInsider that Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard is now "finalized" and that Apple has begun to provide Leopard-related support training materials to its support staff.

Among these initial training materials were self-paced training modules on some of the operating system's most popular features and components, such as installation methods, Mail and BootCamp.

The last full pre-release of Leopard arrived on September 21st, when Apple provided its vast developer community with Mac OS X Leopard build 9A559 in what was then assumed to be a release candidate.

A week later the company released a small automatic software update for build 9A559 but did not increase or otherwise change the Leopard build number as it had done in previous cases. Therefore, build 9A559 was the last known candidate to be declared Gold Master and released to manufacturing.

All signs have pointed to a public release of Leopard during the business week of Oct 22nd, with sources specifically singling out Oct 26 for the official launch.


Mac OS X 10.4.11

Meanwhile, AppleInsider has also heard that Apple on Tuesday pumped out two new builds of Mac OS X 10.4.11 -- widely expected to be the final update to the Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger operating system.

The new builds -- 8S161 (for PowerPC Macs) and 8S2161 (for Intel Macs) -- focus primarily on Dashboard, according to some of the people testing the releases. This reportedly includes a fix the the software's underlying Webkit foundation and word of two existing issues with number-oriented widgets.

Mac OS X 10.4.11 is now set to deliver over four dozen minor bug fixes and code corrections to users of Mac OS X Tiger.



Multimedia
Oct 9, 2007, 05:45 PM
Looking like the final candidate has left the building.

Peace
Oct 9, 2007, 05:46 PM
9a567 like I've said.;) ( internal build M67)

Just got the exact date wrong.

xUKHCx
Oct 9, 2007, 05:54 PM
its getting harder and harder for apple to keep secret. Just waiting for the official release, any day now.

mwxiao
Oct 9, 2007, 06:08 PM
Nothing new. Appleinsider just wrapped up old rumors and told us what we already know.

Freg3000
Oct 9, 2007, 06:51 PM
its getting harder and harder for apple to keep secret. Just waiting for the official release, any day now.

I'm pulling for an announcement tomorrow. 16 days in advance of the Friday the 26th release.

mwxiao
Oct 9, 2007, 07:02 PM
I'm pulling for an announcement tomorrow. 16 days in advance of the Friday the 26th release.

Why not Friday, Oct. 12? That's 14 days ahead.

MacRumors
Oct 9, 2007, 07:09 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

According to a source (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/10/09/sources_leopard_finalized_10_4_11_inching_closer.html) of AppleInsider, Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard is "finalized" and support staff have been provided Leopard-related training materials.

The last publicly available Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard seed (9A559) was released to developers on September 21st, 2007 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/09/21/apple-seeds-mac-os-x-10-5-leopard-9a559/). There is no word whether or not this seed represents the "Gold Master".

Apple has previously announced that Leopard will be shipping in October, but no official release date has yet been set. Circulating rumors have pegged October 26th as the likely date for the launch.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/10/09/mac-os-x-10-5-leopard-finalized/)

OdduWon
Oct 9, 2007, 07:10 PM
SWEET :D just in time for macBOO :eek:

swingerofbirch
Oct 9, 2007, 07:13 PM
Do they normally announce the final version is available the days it ships, or will they have another keynote showing off the final version?

plumbingandtech
Oct 9, 2007, 07:13 PM
Nice.

I think I will wait a couple weeks though personally before installing.

Or a couple of minutes if photoshop cs 3 is fine with it.


Do they normally announce the final version is available the days it ships, or will they have another keynote showing off the final version?


they will prob. announce store events on day X later this month.

Karpfish
Oct 9, 2007, 07:14 PM
Sweet. Still haven't decided if I will buy it on release day, if I don't I will wait until 10.5.1.

superleccy
Oct 9, 2007, 07:15 PM
Well, if it's not "finalized" by now, it'd be a bit late for an October release.

SL

pieman02
Oct 9, 2007, 07:16 PM
Well at least it wasn't the 30th or something ahahah....aw man can't wait! :apple:

Multimedia
Oct 9, 2007, 07:17 PM
Looking like we'll be able to pre-order tomorrow. Pre-orders get delivered on shipping day.

Muzzway
Oct 9, 2007, 07:17 PM
Almost time for that new iMac... :)

emegmac
Oct 9, 2007, 07:17 PM
Bring on the new cat. I'm tired of hearing about it. Its oct. 9th. We need a date!!:D

WebbDogg
Oct 9, 2007, 07:18 PM
running 9a559 here. I hope there is another version that's gold. Most everything runs fine but I have a couple programs that just crash.

Quicksilver867
Oct 9, 2007, 07:19 PM
Wow, I can't wait to get this running on the Quicksilver! I'm not so sure about the eMac though...:p

synth3tik
Oct 9, 2007, 07:20 PM
Oh, how I want 10.5. My life at work will be so much easier. I will basically be getting rid of any need for Win XP.

A Finalized Golden Master will be great. The next few weeks will be full of sleepless nights.:D

xUKHCx
Oct 9, 2007, 07:20 PM
i agree that we will have an announce this week (tomorrow) with pre-ordering. Hopefully they will also announce the new macbooks also with pre-ordering.

BornAgainMac
Oct 9, 2007, 07:23 PM
I hope the Apple website is updated with all the details of any features they still have close to the vest.

andrewag
Oct 9, 2007, 07:24 PM
Woohoo!!!!! We're almost there! :D

occ10dog
Oct 9, 2007, 07:25 PM
Any idea on what the EDU pricing will be? It seems like they have raised their software prices (iWork and iLife now cost $71 not $49) - do you think this will continue with 10.5?

thejadedmonkey
Oct 9, 2007, 07:25 PM
Sweet deal! I can't wait!

darthraige
Oct 9, 2007, 07:26 PM
Now if Apple would get off their bums and update the MacPro we'll be all set for Oct. 26.

MikeLord
Oct 9, 2007, 07:27 PM
Pre-orders get delivered on shipping day.

Or sooner. :)

Teddy's
Oct 9, 2007, 07:28 PM
Anything Golden sounds like fun!!! Yay!!!!!!!!

lukechip
Oct 9, 2007, 07:31 PM
What is the likely upgrade amnesty period ?

In plain english, how many days prior to release could someone buy a new Mac with 10.4 and receive a near free upgrade to 10.5 ? Historically, what has this period been ?

Does it align with the formal release data announcement, or perhaps with the entire release month "anyone who bought a new Mac since xx/yy/zz is eligble for an upgrade to 10.5"

I'm itching to order my CTO iMac but don't want to miss a "free" Leopard....

Telp
Oct 9, 2007, 07:34 PM
Can't wait!! But i know its going to get crazy in here forums...BRING IT ON.:D:D

n-abounds
Oct 9, 2007, 07:35 PM
Yahoo! I'm seriously excited. Now to find the necessary monies...

Darkroom
Oct 9, 2007, 07:35 PM
does this mean 10.5 will have aqua scroll bars?

chubad
Oct 9, 2007, 07:36 PM
Or sooner. :)

Or later.:D

Mac Fly (film)
Oct 9, 2007, 07:37 PM
Hope all those major bugs are gone. The same way all those secret features vanished. ;)

cohibadad
Oct 9, 2007, 07:39 PM
What is the likely upgrade amnesty period ?

In plain english, how many days prior to release could someone buy a new Mac with 10.4 and receive a near free upgrade to 10.5 ? Historically, what has this period been ?

Does it align with the formal release data announcement, or perhaps with the entire release month "anyone who bought a new Mac since xx/yy/zz is eligble for an upgrade to 10.5"

I'm itching to order my CTO iMac but don't want to miss a "free" Leopard....

I am just waiting until the macs are preloaded with 10.5

boxandrew
Oct 9, 2007, 07:43 PM
What is the likely upgrade amnesty period ?

In plain english, how many days prior to release could someone buy a new Mac with 10.4 and receive a near free upgrade to 10.5 ? Historically, what has this period been ?

According to the archives, Tiger's free (except shipping costs) upgrade period started the day the shipping date was confirmed. The official press release on the Apple website contains the details under "Pricing and Availability": http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/12tiger.html

Dicx
Oct 9, 2007, 07:47 PM
Well I sure hope they get 802.1x fixed and Airport also. Plus Airdisk, and the numerous Grey screen of death bugs that I have been seeing.

mklos
Oct 9, 2007, 07:48 PM
Any idea on what the EDU pricing will be? It seems like they have raised their software prices (iWork and iLife now cost $71 not $49) - do you think this will continue with 10.5?

In the past, OS X was $69 for educational customers. I would assume that since the regular price is still $129, the educational price would be the same. Also, its $199 for a family pack (5-user license).

OdduWon
Oct 9, 2007, 07:49 PM
Hope all those major bugs are gone. The same way all those secret features vanished. ;)

LOL, the secret is there is no secret :p

Soba
Oct 9, 2007, 07:50 PM
Any idea on what the EDU pricing will be? It seems like they have raised their software prices (iWork and iLife now cost $71 not $49) - do you think this will continue with 10.5?

I noticed the price hike, but interestingly, when I went to my school's bookstore to buy them, I was only charged $49 for each. Quite a pleasant surprise!

Historically, EDU pricing has been $69 for Mac OS X, but check with your school if you have the option. You might pay less.

-Soba

mklos
Oct 9, 2007, 07:52 PM
I think the secret features were the new dock, cover flow in Finder, new finder, etc.

I do think that some were dropped such as resolution independence which kind if sucks.

motulist
Oct 9, 2007, 07:55 PM
does this mean 10.5 will have aqua scroll bars?

At this point it's almost certainly what-you-see-is-what-you'll-get. If this version of the Finder is a final candidate for the Finder application, then no changes will be happening to it other than bug fixes and maybe optimizations.

So the scroll bars that you see in the screenshots of the current beta 10.5 Finder are the scroll bars you're gonna see on your computer when you load up an off the shelf copy of 10.5.

mklos
Oct 9, 2007, 07:56 PM
Well I sure hope they get 802.1x fixed and Airport also. Plus Airdisk, and the numerous Grey screen of death bugs that I have been seeing.

All of those can be fixed with a maintenance update. Apple just needs to get the damn thing shipping and worry about the little things like that later with a 10.5.1 update.

Dicx
Oct 9, 2007, 08:00 PM
All of those can be fixed with a maintenance update. Apple just needs to get the damn thing shipping and worry about the little things like that later with a 10.5.1 update.

Mark my typing, there will be whining about wireless and crashes, let's not hope it's you.

motulist
Oct 9, 2007, 08:01 PM
All of those can be fixed with a maintenance update. Apple just needs to get the damn thing shipping and worry about the little things like that later with a 10.5.1 update.

Broken wifi, if true, doesn't sound like a little thing to me.

Dicx
Oct 9, 2007, 08:02 PM
Broken wifi, if true, doesn't sound like a little thing to me.

There was a reason why that 1.5mb update was for wireless fixes. Just not there quite yet. I will leave final judgement for GM which hopefully will be seeded this Friday.

synth3tik
Oct 9, 2007, 08:05 PM
I will leave final judgement for GM which hopefully will be seeded this Friday.

~crosses fingers-

paola105
Oct 9, 2007, 08:07 PM
I'm even more excited now!

mklos
Oct 9, 2007, 08:08 PM
Mark my typing, there will be whining about wireless and crashes, let's not hope it's you.

There will be whining that Leopard broke my computer regardless. It always happens, usually because they did an upgrade.

I don't whine! Mark my words, you won't see it from me.

queshy
Oct 9, 2007, 08:10 PM
Looking like we'll be able to pre-order tomorrow. Pre-orders get delivered on shipping day.

Even in Canada?

Regardless of the country, how do we know this won't be another iPod touch fiasco?

mklos
Oct 9, 2007, 08:10 PM
Broken wifi, if true, doesn't sound like a little thing to me.

Well its not something that can't be fixed with a 10.5.1 update the same day or day after its released for sale. What I'm saying is that they don't need to be holding it up for something that can't be fixed soon after its released.

hob
Oct 9, 2007, 08:16 PM
There's something that's been bugging me, and it's this:

Look at us all, sitting here, ready to buy the new OS X...

Apple pitted Leopard against Vista with pithy remarks like "Redmond, Start Your Copiers", oh how we smiled...

Then Apple says, "here are 10 new features, also there are some top secret ones". We all go oooooooh!

Then there are delays

Then the top secret new features are nowhere to be seen.

Now unless they've been seeding one version to developers and developing extra features on the side... which is highly doubtful, then Leopard stands to be Apple's Vista...

What I mean to say is, XP/Tiger works fine/great - but Microsoft/Apple thought of a few more things to add. Then they realised it was going to be harder than they thought, delayed the project, and ultimately dropped a bunch of cool stuff. The main difference is Apple were smart enough not to tell anyone what they were developing so they could drop it easier...

No?

badtz
Oct 9, 2007, 08:16 PM
I do think that some were dropped such as resolution independence which kind if sucks.

This is still in Leopard.

ATimson
Oct 9, 2007, 08:18 PM
What I'm saying is that they don't need to be holding it up for something that can't be fixed soon after its released.
Except if wireless is broken, that can't necessarily be fixed--you can't install an update when your network connection doesn't work!

arn
Oct 9, 2007, 08:19 PM
Update: Since the story was originally published, we've heard from a couple of sources that internal Apple builds are still progressing and "Gold Master" has not yet been declared. I suspect we'll hear more in the next few days.

Doctor Q
Oct 9, 2007, 08:19 PM
Just in case, I guess it's time to get in line for the Leopard release at my local Apple Store. I wouldn't want to be too far back in line!

matticus008
Oct 9, 2007, 08:19 PM
At this point it's almost certainly what-you-see-is-what-you'll-get.
There are some things that don't require testing. Scroll bars, for instance, are an excellent example. As long as everyone uses the UI tools they're supposed to, it wouldn't matter if iTunes-style scrollbars randomly appeared in the final build--or even some heretofore unseen style of scroll bar.

Yeah, it would throw off the aesthetics of other applications using an Aqua-based UI--but that's already the case for people who use the Graphite theme.

seanneko
Oct 9, 2007, 08:19 PM
Wait, so does this mean that Leopard will still have Aqua in it? I was almost certain that they'd release a new colour scheme in the final build as one of their "secret features" - it would probably be very easily to drop in, after all.

Darkroom
Oct 9, 2007, 08:20 PM
There's something that's been bugging me, and it's this:

Look at us all, sitting here, ready to buy the new OS X...

Apple pitted Leopard against Vista with pithy remarks like "Redmond, Start Your Copiers", oh how we smiled...

Then Apple says, "here are 10 new features, also there are some top secret ones". We all go oooooooh!

Then there are delays

Then the top secret new features are nowhere to be seen.

Now unless they've been seeding one version to developers and developing extra features on the side... which is highly doubtful, then Leopard stands to be Apple's Vista...

What I mean to say is, XP/Tiger works fine/great - but Microsoft/Apple thought of a few more things to add. Then they realised it was going to be harder than they thought, delayed the project, and ultimately dropped a bunch of cool stuff. The main difference is Apple were smart enough not to tell anyone what they were developing so they could drop it easier...

No?

those "top secret" features of leopard were discussed already at the last keynote this past summer... did you miss it? they're not so top secret anymore...

DaBrain
Oct 9, 2007, 08:20 PM
I noticed the price hike, but interestingly, when I went to my school's bookstore to buy them, I was only charged $49 for each. Quite a pleasant surprise!

Historically, EDU pricing has been $69 for Mac OS X, but check with your school if you have the option. You might pay less.

-Soba

In Todays time, $69 is pretty damn cheap for an OS.

And for the rest of us I consider $129 (?) still a great bargin. Compared to Windows, I don't see how I can refuse--))))):D

mklos
Oct 9, 2007, 08:23 PM
Except if wireless is broken, that can't necessarily be fixed--you can't install an update when your network connection doesn't work!

Oh...but there's this MAJOR innovation in networking!!!! Its called OMG...Ethernet!!!! WOW!!!!

mklos
Oct 9, 2007, 08:25 PM
This is still in Leopard.

Ummm...as far as I know this hasn't been in any of the beta builds. Maybe its just gone under the radar?

Ok...I just had someone check with the latest build and its not there. When they set it 800 x 600 it goes blurry. So its definitely not there. If thats not what RI is supposed to do, then its pointless to have RI as that was supposed to be its main purpose, to let a user choose any resolution.

motulist
Oct 9, 2007, 08:32 PM
Ummm...as far as I know this hasn't been in any of the beta builds. Maybe its just gone under the radar?

From what I've heard other people say on the MR forums, 10.4 even has some R.I. elements in it, and 10.5 adds even more, but the interface and framework for complete RI isn't fully implemented yet.

(I have no first hand knowledge about this, I'm just passing on what I've heard in the telephone game)

chris200x9
Oct 9, 2007, 08:32 PM
Oh...but there's this MAJOR innovation in networking!!!! Its called OMG...Ethernet!!!! WOW!!!!

true but that'd look horrible on apples part "hey all you macbook user's who use your computer solely on wireless guess what you gotta go hook up your computer to a wired connection so you can download an update to fix something that we COULD have fixed but we thought it was better to make you all go through all this rigamarole just so we could ship our OS a week or so sooner"

crossifixio
Oct 9, 2007, 08:35 PM
those "top secret" features of leopard were discussed already at the last keynote this past summer... did you miss it? they're not so top secret anymore...

Many of the secret features shown at WWDC 07 were known because they were shown at WWDC 06 apart from the new finder and couple others like stacks. Apple said that there were 10 secret features after showing Time Machine, Spaces, 64 bit, Core animation, new iChat at WWDC 06 so really the ten secret features did not materialize and the demo of leopard at WWDC 07 didn't change that much from its previous demo. I get annoyed when people say that the ten secret features were shown at WWDC 07 :mad: as they were not secret really. Somethings got lost along the line :confused: :eek:
Anyway I'm getting leopard as soon as it comes out :D

mklos
Oct 9, 2007, 08:36 PM
true but that'd look horrible on apples part "hey all you macbook user's who use your computer solely on wireless guess what you gotta go hook up your computer to a wired connection so you can download an update to fix something that we COULD have fixed but we thought it was better to make you all go through all this rigamoral just so we could ship our OS a week or so sooner"

I know...its so hard to plug in a wire isn't it? Anyways...I'm sure Apple will fix the wireless issue before it ships if there's a major issue with it totally not working. They may have already fixed it. I personally think they have internal builds that aren't being released. Things like wireless issues they can test internally pretty easy. The build testers have already done the hard work of smashing a lot of the major and minor issues. So its not like they have to release it to testers because they know there's still 50+ bugs to squash.

If it isn't shipped we'll all have to listen to the pissing and moaning just because it shipped in November instead of October. "Apple missed another deadline!" "Apple is turning into Microsoft, missed another deadline". I guess Apple is in a no win situation here.

I hope we hear something official soon. There are only 3 weeks left in October! If something isn't heard by the end of next week I will be officially worried. Proves my point exactly. No disrespect intended chr1s60. I'm not saying you're pissing and moaning, just stating that it will worry you that Apple has missed another deadline.

my Leopard partitions have been ready since April. I'll be adopting the first day. They question is whether to trust that my pre-order will be delivered at the same time it is available in stores or not. I'd hate to be waiting on the mail when I could have driven 30 min and installed on (my PB) on the drive home.

I hope it gets to my door the same day its available. It always has been in the past, not that that means anything today. Apple has even upgraded my shipping to make sure it gets here on time. Lets hope together!!! :D

chr1s60
Oct 9, 2007, 08:37 PM
I hope we hear something official soon. There are only 3 weeks left in October! If something isn't heard by the end of next week I will be officially worried.

FJ218700
Oct 9, 2007, 08:43 PM
my Leopard partitions have been ready since April. I'll be adopting the first day. They question is whether to trust that my pre-order will be delivered at the same time it is available in stores or not. I'd hate to be waiting on the mail when I could have driven 30 min and installed on (my PB) on the drive home.

Multimedia
Oct 9, 2007, 08:50 PM
my Leopard partitions have been ready since April. I'll be adopting the first day. They question is whether to trust that my pre-order will be delivered at the same time it is available in stores or not. I'd hate to be waiting on the mail when I could have driven 30 min and installed on (my PB) on the drive home.They are delivered by FedEx ground the day before or the day of shipping.

Dicx
Oct 9, 2007, 08:53 PM
Oh...but there's this MAJOR innovation in networking!!!! Its called OMG...Ethernet!!!! WOW!!!!

Never had a problem with Ethernet, just wireless. I use Ethernet at work, at home there is no such thing as OMG, cables. I am a little more civilized. ;)

Anyways, like I said, will wait for GM, FWIW 10.4.11 has the longest beta builds I have ever seen, I think it is up to almost 10 right now.

curmi
Oct 9, 2007, 09:06 PM
Many of the secret features shown at WWDC 07 were known because they were shown at WWDC 06 apart from the new finder and couple others like stacks. Apple said that there were 10 secret features after showing Time Machine, Spaces, 64 bit, Core animation, new iChat at WWDC 06 so really the ten secret features did not materialize and the demo of leopard at WWDC 07 didn't change that much from its previous demo. I get annoyed when people say that the ten secret features were shown at WWDC 07 :mad: as they were not secret really. Somethings got lost along the line :confused: :eek:
Anyway I'm getting leopard as soon as it comes out :D

Actually, they never said there were 10 secret features. They just said there were secret features that they didn't want to announce to avoid people copying.

As it turned out, the secret features weren't that great, and no one was in a hurry to copy them. :-)

That doesn't mean Leopard isn't any good, just that Apple didn't deliver on their own hype (probably because they put all their resources on the iPhone).

mklos
Oct 9, 2007, 09:06 PM
Never had a problem with Ethernet, just wireless. I use Ethernet at work, at home there is no such thing as OMG, cables. I am a little more civilized. ;)

You missed my sarcasm. :D

Yes, like I said in my post. If its a major major issue where it doesn't work at all I'm sure they'll fix it. Like someone else said, maybe it was you even, Apple did release a small wireless update and didn't really state what it fixed other than something to do with wireless. So maybe its already fixed.

phil83
Oct 9, 2007, 09:13 PM
How long do you have to wait for it to be sent to you for free if you're an ADC education member?

twoodcc
Oct 9, 2007, 09:15 PM
Looking like we'll be able to pre-order tomorrow. Pre-orders get delivered on shipping day.

that would be nice, but i'm guessing probably this friday. hopefully you're right and i'm wrong though.....we'll see

akac
Oct 9, 2007, 09:15 PM
Ummm...as far as I know this hasn't been in any of the beta builds. Maybe its just gone under the radar?

Ok...I just had someone check with the latest build and its not there. When they set it 800 x 600 it goes blurry. So its definitely not there. If thats not what RI is supposed to do, then its pointless to have RI as that was supposed to be its main purpose, to let a user choose any resolution.

Actually you aren't correct. RI will not just work by you changing resolution since how would the OS know the DPI of your screen? RI *is* in Leopard. But it is not user enabled at this time because most apps are not written to support it so if you tried to turn it on (you can) then while OS elements will scale properly, most apps will completely screw up. Including currently the built in Leopard apps like Finder. Apple has told devs that RI may come to users in 2008 Q1/2.

Now personally here is how I *expect* it will happen, knowing Apple. I'm not really pleased by my thought, but this is how I expect it to be. Apple will introduce new ultra high res displays. Those people with those displays will get RI. Nobody else will. The idea being that there is no switch, no option. It turns itself on based on the hardware. Apple hardware of course. Sure people will figure out how to turn it on (like we do now with dev tools), but normal users won't get it without that.

Bosunsfate
Oct 9, 2007, 09:25 PM
I'm certainly going to pre-order.

I have to admit the biggest features I've been looking forward to is the mail/task integration. IMO it is one of the most significant advances for personal organizers. I have wondered how that will integrate with the iPhone.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, just look at what the Open Source Applications Foundation (http://www.osafoundation.org/) is trying to do. And what the "Dreaming in Code (http://www.dreamingincode.com/)" by Scott Rosenburg covered.

It is certainly something that Outlook has not even come close too..even for Office 2007.

ma2ha3
Oct 9, 2007, 09:29 PM
finally
no thanks to iphone
we have to wait for a few more months
i hope iphone will be a gigantic finanical failure. let's wait for the european court of human right sue the arse of apple for locking us off.

Veritas&Equitas
Oct 9, 2007, 09:36 PM
i hope iphone will be a gigantic finanical failure.
Well, not to rain on your parade, but Apple supposedly sold just under 1 million 8gb iPhones at the $600 price point = $600 million.

I don't know your definition of "financial failure," but that certainly does not seem to be one in my book.

lukechip
Oct 9, 2007, 09:41 PM
According to the archives, Tiger's free (except shipping costs) upgrade period started the day the shipping date was confirmed. The official press release on the Apple website contains the details under "Pricing and Availability": http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/apr/12tiger.html

Thanks - I'll be ordering my new 24" iMac (CTO with all options maxed out) with confidence the day they announce. Given that I'm currently using a 17" 800 MHz G4 iMac on 10.3.9, just the new hardware on 10.4 will be fun !

Searching some more shows:

10.2: Announced July 17, shipped August 24 = 38 day amnesty with $ 19.95 for upgrade
10.3: Announced Oct 8, shipped Oct 24 = 16 day amnesty with $ 19.95 for upgrade
10.4: Announced April 12, shipped April 29 = 17 day amnesty with $ 9.95 for upgrade

So:

10.5: Today is Oct 10, (if) shipping on Oct 26 = less than 16 day amnesty, which is the shortest yet....

BRING IT ON !

mklos
Oct 9, 2007, 09:50 PM
finally
no thanks to iphone
we have to wait for a few more months
i hope iphone will be a gigantic finanical failure. let's wait for the european court of human right sue the arse of apple for locking us off.

Oh please! I'm not convinced that even if the iPhone wasn't in the picture that it still would have been delayed. There was a lot of things that needed to be done before it ever got to the stage it was in for WWDC '07 and then there was a lot of work to be done after that.

If the iPhone is a financial failure, you'll have a lot more to worry about than a delayed OS. Trust me! Its not like Panther or Tiger is a terrible OS that is in dire need of an update here.

osxrulz
Oct 9, 2007, 09:51 PM
Like someone else said, maybe it was you even, Apple did release a small wireless update and didn't really state what it fixed other than something to do with wireless. So maybe its already fixed.
I can neither confirm nor deny that it definitely is not. ;)

Bosunsfate
Oct 9, 2007, 10:03 PM
finally
no thanks to iphone
we have to wait for a few more months
i hope iphone will be a gigantic finanical failure. let's wait for the european court of human right sue the arse of apple for locking us off.

You are nuts. Not only is your reason at cross purpose, you make this a human rights issue. :rolleyes:

Anonymous Freak
Oct 9, 2007, 10:13 PM
Update: Since the story was originally published, we've heard from a couple of sources that internal Apple builds are still progressing and "Gold Master" has not yet been declared. I suspect we'll hear more in the next few days.

Little did we know that when Steve said "delayed until October", he really meant next October.

hooch
Oct 9, 2007, 10:15 PM
Oh, how I want 10.5. My life at work will be so much easier. I will basically be getting rid of any need for Win XP.

A Finalized Golden Master will be great. The next few weeks will be full of sleepless nights.:D

What does leopard bring that tiger doesn't which will allow you to get rid of Win XP?

vertgo
Oct 9, 2007, 10:25 PM
and then putting it back into my wallet, because i really don't see anything about Leopard that is so awesome that i have to preorder it before they even have gold master.

And if they don't announce an iPhone SDK, I will steal it, so Jobs knows how it feels when someone crushes your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations, etc.

Well that goes a bit far, I will steal it because i'm miffed and i don't want them to have my money til I am less miffed. And also because it's cheaper than paying for it.

But I do say I will buy a 5 pack license if they do release an iPhone SDK (not talking web 2.0 here people) and have ZFS write. Because i will have felt that they have made things right again.

EagerDragon
Oct 9, 2007, 10:30 PM
Getting my family pack when it comes out. Playing with it all weekend.

jacktiernan
Oct 9, 2007, 10:30 PM
Looking like we'll be able to pre-order tomorrow. Pre-orders get delivered on shipping day.

What, like the ipod touches got delivered before stores....hang on.....

:P

EagerDragon
Oct 9, 2007, 10:33 PM
What does leopard bring that tiger doesn't which will allow you to get rid of Win XP?

I do not need a reason to get rid of win XP, I left that behing about 3 years ago. Have no need at all for it. Hell, I would need the Amiga OS more than XP or Vista, if I ever needed an OS other than OSX.

Whistleway
Oct 9, 2007, 10:34 PM
and then putting it back into my wallet, because i really don't see anything about Leopard that is so awesome that i have to preorder it before they even have gold master.

And if they don't announce an iPhone SDK, I will steal it, so Jobs knows how it feels when someone crushes your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations, etc.

Well that goes a bit far, I will steal it because i'm miffed and i don't want them to have my money til I am less miffed. And also because it's cheaper than paying for it.

But I do say I will buy a 5 pack license if they do release an iPhone SDK (not talking web 2.0 here people) and have ZFS write. Because i will have felt that they have made things right again.

Vote with your money. Well-done!

jackc
Oct 9, 2007, 10:37 PM
Awesome, can't wait for 10.5.2!

Stella
Oct 9, 2007, 10:42 PM
OSX 10.5 is looking OK IMO. I'd be surprised if they ship in October - 3 weeks left?

They probably announce October, but ship November.

Hope its more stable than 10.4 was...!

antibact1
Oct 9, 2007, 10:45 PM
and then putting it back into my wallet, because i really don't see anything about Leopard that is so awesome that i have to preorder it before they even have gold master.

And if they don't announce an iPhone SDK, I will steal it, so Jobs knows how it feels when someone crushes your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations, etc.

Well that goes a bit far, I will steal it because i'm miffed and i don't want them to have my money til I am less miffed. And also because it's cheaper than paying for it.

But I do say I will buy a 5 pack license if they do release an iPhone SDK (not talking web 2.0 here people) and have ZFS write. Because i will have felt that they have made things right again.

Do you even know what the point of having ZFS write is, and how that would be different from what you use now?

BKKbill
Oct 9, 2007, 10:49 PM
Looking like the final candidate has left the building.

One can only hope you are on the money.

Genghis Khan
Oct 9, 2007, 10:52 PM
i agree, you can't have people preordering it before it's announced

i'm betting announced 26th and..

One more thing...

you can buy it today:D

ihabime
Oct 9, 2007, 11:07 PM
and then putting it back into my wallet, because i really don't see anything about Leopard that is so awesome that i have to preorder it before they even have gold master.

And if they don't announce an iPhone SDK, I will steal it, so Jobs knows how it feels when someone crushes your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations, etc.

Well that goes a bit far, I will steal it because i'm miffed and i don't want them to have my money til I am less miffed. And also because it's cheaper than paying for it.

But I do say I will buy a 5 pack license if they do release an iPhone SDK (not talking web 2.0 here people) and have ZFS write. Because i will have felt that they have made things right again.

Hear, Hear, I agree completely.
I recently had a similar situation at my local corner store. The owner refused to put peanuts in my milky way bar, even after I'd paid for it. The owner had apparently never heard that the customer is always right, so I punched him in the face several times and stole an entire rack of peanuts to go with my milky way.

The next time I stopped by they were carrying a new version of the milky way called the snickers and it included peanuts. The owner was so pleased with my previous advice that he threw himself to the ground and insisted that I, "Take anything you want and just go".

I find that most businesses do respond well to such constructive criticism.

ryleguy06
Oct 9, 2007, 11:14 PM
How long do you have to wait for it to be sent to you for free if you're an ADC education member?

i as well was curious as to the wait on the leopard release for ADC members

chasemac
Oct 9, 2007, 11:14 PM
It will be available to the public on Wed. October 31st. Trick or Treat?:)

igazza
Oct 9, 2007, 11:15 PM
i cant wait for this :apple: good work

BTW
Oct 9, 2007, 11:17 PM
those "top secret" features of leopard were discussed already at the last keynote this past summer... did you miss it? they're not so top secret anymore...


Leopard Server will probably ship a month or two after Leopard Client, so there's a chance that some Server features not shown before could show up. All ADC members are under NDA so who knows.

The best top secret feature would be, "Oh one more thing, Leopard will run on your Dell, Gateway, or any other PC manufacturers product." :cool:

Andrew07
Oct 9, 2007, 11:27 PM
Do you even know what the point of having ZFS write is, and how that would be different from what you use now?

....I dont :o

simie
Oct 9, 2007, 11:30 PM
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/515ZAp9W5DL._AA280_.jpg

Amazon say; This product is expected to ship sometime in October. We will update the site with more specific information as soon as it is available, including system requirement details.

Full details (http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mac-Version-10-5-Leopard/dp/B000FK88JK/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-6369875-8665712?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1191990456&sr=8-2)

RichP
Oct 9, 2007, 11:32 PM
Amazon say it will ship on the 31st October 07.


They just put in the last possible date it could ship, doesnt mean anything.

mountainbiker80
Oct 9, 2007, 11:32 PM
running 9a559 here. I hope there is another version that's gold. Most everything runs fine but I have a couple programs that just crash.

Dude, you're right on. Running 9A559 here...there is NO way this should be released as final. :mad:

ATimson
Oct 9, 2007, 11:44 PM
Oh...but there's this MAJOR innovation in networking!!!! Its called OMG...Ethernet!!!! WOW!!!!
Which works great if you have a laptop. But if you have a desktop, well, not so much.

jhsfosho
Oct 10, 2007, 12:04 AM
Wow Apple, with all of the delays, I almost completely forgot about Leopard coming out. Minus the occasional build updates. But seriously, I hope the wait will prove to be worthwhile come release day, or whenever I actually buy it.

motulist
Oct 10, 2007, 12:16 AM
Wow Apple, with all of the delays, I almost completely forgot about Leopard coming out.

It was delayed once. Just once. And just by a few months.

Alloye
Oct 10, 2007, 12:27 AM
Update: Since the story was originally published, we've heard from a couple of sources that internal Apple builds are still progressing and "Gold Master" has not yet been declared. I suspect we'll hear more in the next few days.

I hope this turns out to be true. That would make 9A559 a Release Candidate rather than a Golden Master. I just wish Apple would say as much so we could keep the speculation under control.

JSpence
Oct 10, 2007, 12:32 AM
n Master. I just wish Apple would say as much so we could keep the speculation under control.

Agreed. Any news would be good news at this point.


Even if it is another Delay :(

offwidafairies
Oct 10, 2007, 12:38 AM
Bring on the new cat. I'm tired of hearing about it. Its oct. 9th. We need a date!!:D

It's Oct 10th here. I'm itching. I hope MacBook Pro comes with it pre-installed coz I'm ordering one :) :) :)

tuartboy
Oct 10, 2007, 12:39 AM
Ummm...as far as I know this hasn't been in any of the beta builds. Maybe its just gone under the radar?

Ok...I just had someone check with the latest build and its not there. When they set it 800 x 600 it goes blurry. So its definitely not there. If thats not what RI is supposed to do, then its pointless to have RI as that was supposed to be its main purpose, to let a user choose any resolution.


RI's main purpose is not to let a user choose any resolution. In fact, it is just the opposite. RI is designed to allow the user to use any app without ever needing to change resolution. With pixel densities growing many apps that have traditionally relied upon specifying exact pixel dimensions for layout are turning unreadable. With a 72 PPI screen, a 36 pixel button would be 1/2 " high. At the +100 PPI of the new macbooks, that would shrink down to 1/3" high. RI would allow developers to specify the actual height and the RI engine would then determine how many pixels it needed to be.


Also, displaying anything on a fixed grid display (LCDs are just rectangular pixel grids) will never look good unless it is either native or an exponent (don't know how to say that all mathy). No amount of bicubic calculations and software trickery is going to make 3 virtual pixels fit in to 5 physical pixels perfectly. Hence, the blur.

SiliconAddict
Oct 10, 2007, 01:09 AM
Meh. I've been talking to someone who downloaded the latest build. Not me because I like my OS's stable...well as stable as Tiger on my laptop can be but that's a different post. :rolleyes: I saw the ISO on their desktop so I know they had it. They were telling me that it still isn't fully baked. Occasional hangups in Finder and that even though leopard is supost to be multi-core aware it still does much of its processing through one core. *shrugs* Was he full of it? Maybe, but I trust this guy, and he's a big enough geek that I think his comments are legit. The only variable was that he was using leopard off of an external FW800 drive.

Jiddick ExRex
Oct 10, 2007, 01:11 AM
Which works great if you have a laptop. But if you have a desktop, well, not so much.

Surely you mean the other way around? :P

daze
Oct 10, 2007, 01:26 AM
Eh... Forget Leopard.... I want an official iPhone release in Canada...

Otherwise, I may have to find a job in the states. Too cold and high taxes in Canada. I can't take it no more! :D

hiimamac
Oct 10, 2007, 01:43 AM
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/515ZAp9W5DL._AA280_.jpg

Amazon say; This product is expected to ship sometime in October. We will update the site with more specific information as soon as it is available, including system requirement details.

Full details (http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Mac-Version-10-5-Leopard/dp/B000FK88JK/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-6369875-8665712?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1191990456&sr=8-2)

Does anyone know if this can be run as an update?

I am a mac noob and heard something about Archive install, anyway, will this be able to just UPDATE to new OS or do you have to wipe HD and start fresh, or, I know its better than windoze, but will it work well with just doing an update?

Thanks

Manic Mouse
Oct 10, 2007, 02:14 AM
I hope we see one more build, without any aqua scrollbars, that is gold master.

Multimedia
Oct 10, 2007, 02:21 AM
Does anyone know if this can be run as an update?

I am a mac noob and heard something about Archive install, anyway, will this be able to just UPDATE to new OS or do you have to wipe HD and start fresh, or, I know its better than windoze, but will it work well with just doing an update?Archive and install is the way to go. It preserves your current preference settings.

richinspace
Oct 10, 2007, 03:28 AM
Does anyone know if this can be run as an update?

I am a mac noob and heard something about Archive install, anyway, will this be able to just UPDATE to new OS or do you have to wipe HD and start fresh, or, I know its better than windoze, but will it work well with just doing an update?

Thanks

No, you definitely don't need to do any HD wiping. It's a Mac Ė welcome to the sunny side of the street!
:)

richinspace
Oct 10, 2007, 03:31 AM
Öwill never look good unless it is either native or an exponent (don't know how to say that all mathy).

I would say "an even multiple of the physical pixels".

aswitcher
Oct 10, 2007, 03:48 AM
Be nice to know about the special new features...not long now.

mycintosh
Oct 10, 2007, 03:56 AM
I was part of the internal Tiger-Beta Testers at Apple (As MacOS X Champ).
We received almost daily Seeds until the Gold Master was released. (Which was quite a pain, because we weren't allowed to UPDATE the System, we had to erase and install every time we've got a new Seed).
The Goldmaster was handed out for us just three days before the final release.

Cloudsurfer
Oct 10, 2007, 04:03 AM
I hope we see one more build, without any aqua scrollbars, that is gold master.

How much I'd like to see iTunes 7 scrollbars, I don't think we'll see that as an OS X feature until 10.6. And even then I think we will still see Aqua buttons.

gnasher729
Oct 10, 2007, 04:06 AM
In plain english, how many days prior to release could someone buy a new Mac with 10.4 and receive a near free upgrade to 10.5 ? Historically, what has this period been ?

Does it align with the formal release data announcement, or perhaps with the entire release month "anyone who bought a new Mac since xx/yy/zz is eligble for an upgrade to 10.5"

In the past it has been when Apple has officially announced a release date. At that point, you would get something in writing that guarantees you will get Leopard near free (paying for DVD, posting and handling) when you buy the Macintosh. For example, you would get a printed voucher from Apple. If you don't get that, you won't get Leopard free.

gnasher729
Oct 10, 2007, 04:10 AM
Meh. I've been talking to someone who downloaded the latest build. Not me because I like my OS's stable...well as stable as Tiger on my laptop can be but that's a different post. :rolleyes: I saw the ISO on their desktop so I know they had it. They were telling me that it still isn't fully baked. Occasional hangups in Finder and that even though leopard is supost to be multi-core aware it still does much of its processing through one core. *shrugs* Was he full of it? Maybe, but I trust this guy, and he's a big enough geek that I think his comments are legit. The only variable was that he was using leopard off of an external FW800 drive.

Since he is in breach of his NDA, no matter what "geek" he is, his comments are most definitely not legit. Just for making these comments to you he and his company could get into big trouble.

Wild-Bill
Oct 10, 2007, 04:17 AM
Not multi-core aware!???!!!?!

Maybe that's one of the "secret" features??? Leopard runs on just one core?

Maybe by 10.5.5 they'll make it multi-core aware.

Stupid iPhone. :mad: No gold master. No RC. One core. Finder crashing..

Guess we really don't need a Mac Pro update since there will be seven cores doing nothing........ :mad:

gnasher729
Oct 10, 2007, 04:23 AM
Ok...I just had someone check with the latest build and its not there. When they set it 800 x 600 it goes blurry. So its definitely not there. If thats not what RI is supposed to do, then its pointless to have RI as that was supposed to be its main purpose, to let a user choose any resolution.

Let's forget for the moment that you are in breach of your NDA (please read it carefully, if you think you need to post about your Leopard experience, contact your companies lawyers first).

But it seems that the someone you asked to check changed the resolution of their LCD screen to 800 x 600. Of course it goes blurry. If you had any idea how an LCD screen works, you would know that is exactly what is going to happen, because that is what the LCD hardware does.

Now go back to them, ask them to check it properly, and then _don't post it here_.

samh004
Oct 10, 2007, 04:44 AM
I'd hate to be waiting on the mail when I could have driven 30 min and installed on (my PB) on the drive home.

That sounds extremely dangerous...

i hope iphone will be a gigantic finanical failure. let's wait for the european court of human right sue the arse of apple for locking us off.

That's not going to help get Leopard into your hands any faster, in fact it's likely to be the end of your Mac experience if something like that happened. Think before you type next time ;)

It's Oct 10th here. I'm itching. I hope MacBook Pro comes with it pre-installed coz I'm ordering one :) :) :)

Not likely. Assuming it's shipped on the day that Leopard is released at the earliest, then you might have a disc in your box allowing you to upgrade when the MBP arrives.

Cabbit
Oct 10, 2007, 05:49 AM
I would just like to chip in and say that Leopard can't come soon enough. The new dock looks great so dose the new finder bar(much better than the current wight elefant). The unifid UI is cool too though i would have prefered it was a choice between the Mail.app and iTunes interface i like the white one better.

Stacks look set to really save me a lot of time and dock space, Coverflow in finder is a brillent idea i have about 300 files in my site directory that can be difficult to sort though without a little help. Will also be great for viewing images.

Also from what i have seen Leopard is a lot quicker than tiger but tiger is already pretty fast though not as snappy as Windows XP but a lot faster than Vista.

Quicklook is all fine and dandy but i see myself using coverflow more than quicklook.

Time machine would be great but my USB hard drive has been killed by the 10.4.10 upgrade so i can only access it form my 10.4.10/9 machine that has the .9 usb stuff tacked on that i was unable to do to my macbook.

Safari 3 looks like a nice incremental update it sorts a lot of problems with Safari 2 such as support with my sites WYSIWYG editior, and the inline search. Unfortunitly i can't use the beta just yet as it has messed up yahoo and msn making them annoying to use with yet no update form apple to resolve the problem yet. (edit installed the latest beta of safari 3 on my macbook it now works well, this may or may not be because of yahoo beta 2 though)

I look forward to iTunes 8 whenever that is coming but only because i don't like odd numbers lol.

I hope the 64bit in Leopard will work like 64 bit windows and linux were once the system passies 2GB of ram it jumps preformance by upto 40%, this has only been explained by perhaps extra registers being enabled.

Spaces is very cool i do miss virtual desktops form linux, ^_^ spaces makes it look cool.

The improvements to mail wont help me a bit i plan to switch to entorage once office 08 comes out. Entorage is a much more full application to me.

And the changes in iChat are pointless without msn and yahoo support. I have over 100 contacts and not one of them use AIM its kinda shunned here.

Overall this is my impression. tiger is great, Leopard builds on the greatness.

Dagless
Oct 10, 2007, 06:03 AM
Leopard will be great and that, but it's a shame I still have to use XP for all my work. I get to spend about an hour each day in OSX just sorting out my music and videos etc.

Leopard looks so brilliant too. :o

twoodcc
Oct 10, 2007, 06:12 AM
I was part of the internal Tiger-Beta Testers at Apple (As MacOS X Champ).
We received almost daily Seeds until the Gold Master was released. (Which was quite a pain, because we weren't allowed to UPDATE the System, we had to erase and install every time we've got a new Seed).
The Goldmaster was handed out for us just three days before the final release.

well if what you say is true, then they still have time to get it right before release.

let's just hope we get a date sometime this week

Chupa Chupa
Oct 10, 2007, 06:25 AM
It was delayed once. Just once. And just by a few months.

Leopard has actually been delayed twice.

At WWDC '05 Jobs, where Leopard was first revealed, he said 10.5 would be released in late '06/early '07:

Steve Jobs:

Well, the next, really I'm very pleased to announce, that the next release of OS X is going to be called Leopard and we're not going to be focusing on it at this conference today, but we certainly will in the future and we intend to release Leopard at the end of 2006 or early 2007 right around the time when Microsoft is expected to release Longhorn.

http://www.news.com/Apples-Intel-switch-Jobs-keynote-transcript---page-2/2100-1047_3-5748045-2.html?tag=st.num

Then it was "Spring '07."

And then it was the current October '07.

And we'll just have to wait and see if Leopard actually ships in Oct '08. I'm not a beta tester so I don't know what kind of condition 10.5 is in, but for an already announced product Apple is being very squirrely about the exact launch date. Apple knows the press is lying in wait to pounce on any bit of a trip up, so Leopard has to be fairly bug an incident free.

It's possible Apple let 9A559 be GM but will have a d/l update ready the day Leopard ships so essentially the first version of Leopard is 10.5.1.

Taylor C
Oct 10, 2007, 06:27 AM
It's 2007, not 2008.

Chupa Chupa
Oct 10, 2007, 06:53 AM
It's 2007, not 2008.

Thanks for the catch. It just feels like it's gonna be 2008. :o

Roy Hobbs
Oct 10, 2007, 07:03 AM
i agree, you can't have people preordering it before it's announced

i'm betting announced 26th and..

One more thing...

you can buy it today:D

Not gonna happen. Apple loves to see all of lined up outside of its stores. Which also brings the media and free advertising for Apple. It will not be announced and released the same day or on Halloween for that matter.

xUKHCx
Oct 10, 2007, 07:07 AM
Leopard has actually been delayed twice.

At WWDC '05 Jobs, where Leopard was first revealed, he said 10.5 would be released in late '06/early '07:

...

Then it was "Spring '07."

And then it was the current October '07.


Not wanting to get in to semantics to much but isnt Spring still early in the year so the first two references re actually talking about the same time frame. So only one delay so far.

twoodcc
Oct 10, 2007, 07:15 AM
Not wanting to get in to semantics to much but isnt Spring still early in the year so the first two references re actually talking about the same time frame. So only one delay so far.

it doesn't really matter now. all that matters now is if it will be released on the 26th......but we need an announcement this week for that to happen

milo
Oct 10, 2007, 07:27 AM
And if they don't announce an iPhone SDK, I will steal it, so Jobs knows how it feels when someone crushes your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations, etc.

I guess you're either kidding or a pathetic loser. Now that I think about it, it's entirely possible you're kidding AND a pathetic loser.


Not multi-core aware!???!!!?!

Maybe that's one of the "secret" features??? Leopard runs on just one core?

Maybe by 10.5.5 they'll make it multi-core aware.

Stupid iPhone. :mad: No gold master. No RC. One core. Finder crashing..

Guess we really don't need a Mac Pro update since there will be seven cores doing nothing........ :mad:

What the hell are you talking about? The finder only using one core (source?)? It sounds like you only need one core since you seem to be only running the finder and NOT RUNNING ANY APPS. While it would be cool if the finder used all cores, I'm not sure what the finder does that would benefit much from extra cores.

GoodWatch
Oct 10, 2007, 07:32 AM
Thatís just marvelous. The ETA of my iMac has been pushed back to October 23. I would very much like to find an upgrade DVD in the box! But Iím afraid Iíll receive one of the last iMacs with 10.4. Boohoo-hoo, Iím so sad now. :( ;)

twoodcc
Oct 10, 2007, 07:55 AM
Thatís just marvelous. The ETA of my iMac has been pushed back to October 23. I would very much like to find an upgrade DVD in the box! But Iím afraid Iíll receive one of the last iMacs with 10.4. Boohoo-hoo, Iím so sad now. :( ;)

but you should still get your copy of leopard for free. but maybe not, i'm not sure if it's from when you order it, or when it ships. you better call apple about that

GoodWatch
Oct 10, 2007, 07:56 AM
but you should still get your copy of leopard for free. but maybe not, i'm not sure if it's from when you order it, or when it ships. you better call apple about that

The order was placed the 27th of September.....

Chupa Chupa
Oct 10, 2007, 08:12 AM
Not wanting to get in to semantics to much but isnt Spring still early in the year so the first two references re actually talking about the same time frame. So only one delay so far.

Semantics? More you are more like rationalizing. Why I don't know. According to my calendar late '06/early '07 falls in the Winter NOT Spring. Also January is SIX months from June, when Apple pushed back 10.5 to October. That is hardly the same time frame.

samh004
Oct 10, 2007, 08:25 AM
The unifid UI is cool too though i would have prefered it was a choice between the Mail.app and iTunes interface i like the white one better.

It's silver when it's the active app and white when it's in the background, so technically your wish is granted.

Coverflow in finder is a brillent idea i have about 300 files in my site directory that can be difficult to sort though without a little help.

Remember that unless those images are big, they'll still be hard to see even in Coverflow. Therefore many images on a website are sometimes quite tiny, and will still be tiny when you browse through them (or horribly pixelated).

Also from what i have seen Leopard is a lot quicker than tiger but tiger is already pretty fast though not as snappy as Windows XP but a lot faster than Vista.

Depends what systems your running really doesn't it.

Time machine would be great but my USB hard drive has been killed by the 10.4.10 upgrade so i can only access it form my 10.4.10/9 machine that has the .9 usb stuff tacked on that i was unable to do to my macbook.

There's quite a chance that your issue will be fixed, however you should be using firewire for backups anyway, it's a lot faster.

Safari 3 looks like a nice incremental update it sorts a lot of problems with Safari 2 such as support with my sites WYSIWYG editior, and the inline search. Unfortunitly i can't use the beta just yet as it has messed up yahoo and msn making them annoying to use with yet no update form apple to resolve the problem yet. (edit installed the latest beta of safari 3 on my macbook it now works well, this may or may not be because of yahoo beta 2 though)

You'll find those issues you encounter are more of MSN and Yahoo's fault that Apple's. The services you can't access have always been low on the compatibility list for those companies, that's life, send them complaint, don't misplace your blame.

And the changes in iChat are pointless without msn and yahoo support. I have over 100 contacts and not one of them use AIM its kinda shunned here.

Many people in the US use AIM instead of MSN. It's very common and works quite well, if you have friends with macs, then I'd recommend just getting a simple AIM account and trying iChat's text, audio and video based chats. They really rock, and you can't even compare them to MSN or Yahoo.

MSN and Yahoo support in iChat isn't something Apple can just add, it's not their call, it's the other two companies, both of which I'm sure would be against the idea, or charge significantly for the ability.

Instead of complaining about how useless iChat is to you because you don't use it, try complaining to Microsoft and Yahoo about supplying decent IM apps for the mac.

It's possible Apple let 9A559 be GM but will have a d/l update ready the day Leopard ships so essentially the first version of Leopard is 10.5.1.

Updates to Leopard, just as Tiger, are helped along with the ADC community. If Apple was testing a 10.5.1 update already, it would of been seeded to developers and we'd know about it, due to the leaks they have.

aldalric
Oct 10, 2007, 08:26 AM
Since I missed out on the "Tiger" hype, How did the "up to date" program work? Did you get a "Full Build" of Tiger, or one specific to your Mac?? (like a system restore disk??) I'm interested in buying a MB Pro for my theater design work, and would like to time it near enough to the release to get a discount on Leopard.

(not that Steve would use the Tiger release as a formula for this release)

I'm tired of doing lighting design work (IE. CAD) on my ibook G3 600MHZ 14" These old eyes can't see things like they used to and I need a speed boost (and some business deductions for taxes this year)

Sorry if this is the wrong area to post this...

dazzer21
Oct 10, 2007, 08:39 AM
Actually you aren't correct. RI will not just work by you changing resolution since how would the OS know the DPI of your screen? RI *is* in Leopard. But it is not user enabled at this time because most apps are not written to support it so if you tried to turn it on (you can) then while OS elements will scale properly, most apps will completely screw up. Including currently the built in Leopard apps like Finder. Apple has told devs that RI may come to users in 2008 Q1/2.

Now personally here is how I *expect* it will happen, knowing Apple. I'm not really pleased by my thought, but this is how I expect it to be. Apple will introduce new ultra high res displays. Those people with those displays will get RI. Nobody else will. The idea being that there is no switch, no option. It turns itself on based on the hardware. Apple hardware of course. Sure people will figure out how to turn it on (like we do now with dev tools), but normal users won't get it without that.

Oh great - thanks for that!!! So I'm currently waiting for Leopard to arrive in order to get on board with a 24" iMac, having ALREADY waited for the white to aluminium upgrade, having received 'advance information' in this forum that it was impending; NOW there's the intimated possibility that an 'HD-display' version could be waiting in the wings of the near future to support resolution independence which is again now making me question whether now is the time to jump... AAArrrgh!

Don't Apple want my business?!! I

happydude
Oct 10, 2007, 08:44 AM
leopard, here we come!! my bet is release on the 26th! if we preorder, does it arrive on the 26th, or ship? i.e. to have it day of, should i stand in line at the store and by malled by ridiculous fanatics or can the transition take place in the comforts of my home?!

benpatient
Oct 10, 2007, 08:45 AM
looks like an october street date is out of the question now...oh well.

twoodcc
Oct 10, 2007, 08:48 AM
The order was placed the 27th of September.....

well if you want leopard for free...i would advise you to call apple and ask about that

Sprung
Oct 10, 2007, 08:49 AM
I favor Treat, as it might be fun standing in line wearing [Leopard] costumes. ;)

Corporate Media would love it!

Lesser Evets
Oct 10, 2007, 08:54 AM
Little did we know that when Steve said "delayed until October", he really meant next October.

It was an honest mistake. He garbled words.

October was just a slurring of the words 'MacWorld January 2008'.

But, with the Time Machine feature he can go back and release it in October 2007. The kicker is that you have to wait until January when he uses that feature to release it now... so it doesn't really help at all.

tennez
Oct 10, 2007, 08:54 AM
I think it should be ready by now and that it will cost 120$.

meagain
Oct 10, 2007, 08:57 AM
The order was placed the 27th of September.....

But I think it only matters as to the date your credit card was billed. Perhaps they didn't hit your card yet and only do that the day it's shipped, etc.

Gators Fan
Oct 10, 2007, 09:11 AM
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: On the day Leopard is released, I will be doing the following in front of my local Apple store in the International Plaza, Tampa, FL, to raise money for the purchase:

* Selling my body (to females only*)
* Posing for pictures (fee required)
* Signing autographs (fee required)
* Giving interviews to the media (no fee required)
* Accepting donations (tin cup provided)

* Must be over 18

All donations to my PayPal account gratefully accepted. (Please don't forget the hyphen.)

Gators-Fan

Darkroom
Oct 10, 2007, 09:15 AM
Almost time for that new iMac... :)

tell me about it...

LastZion
Oct 10, 2007, 09:17 AM
So excited. Historically, what is the fastest way to get new OS's from Apple? Ordering online or going to stores?

appleisbetter
Oct 10, 2007, 09:21 AM
I predict Leopard will sweep some thought into the heads of all those intelligent Windows users. It baffles my brain to consider how only a small percent of people use OS X. Windows users are so quick to rave about how expensive going mac is, as they forget to see how much money they are pissing into their PCís. I hope it catches on, and OS X becomes the norm. I hope I can see Microsoft go down. And the world will be a better place. Haha.

CJD2112
Oct 10, 2007, 09:26 AM
running 9a559 here. I hope there is another version that's gold. Most everything runs fine but I have a couple programs that just crash.

As I'm running 9A599 on my Mac Pro, I'm a little surprised that Apple has declded on releasing this AFTER the fact as either Gold Master or Release Candidate. It has way to many bugs as well as unfinished graphical touches such as finally eliminating Aqua scroll bars and such. I'm hoping Apple thinks this one through and doesn't bow to pressure, I'd be more than willing to wait one or two more months in getting this ready. Plus I feel as though the efforts in getting the iPhone launched AND locked down are taking away from Leopard development. The lack of Fast OS Switching, full Resolution Independence and other "top secret features" from the beta's that Jobs has touted from day one from this most recent beta is disappointing. I hope there is at least one more beta release before Gold Master.

Sbrocket
Oct 10, 2007, 09:33 AM
As I'm running 9A599 on my Mac Pro, I'm a little surprised that Apple has declded on releasing this AFTER the fact as either Gold Master or Release Candidate. It has way to many bugs as well as unfinished graphical touches such as finally eliminating Aqua scroll bars and such. I'm hoping Apple thinks this one through and doesn't bow to pressure, I'd be more than willing to wait one or two more months in getting this ready. Plus I feel as though the efforts in getting the iPhone launched AND locked down are taking away from Leopard development. The lack of Fast OS Switching, full Resolution Independence and other "top secret features" from the beta's that Jobs has touted from day one from this most recent beta is disappointing. I hope there is at least one more beta release before Gold Master.

Who ever said that the aqua scrollbars were changing? You? Come off it.

Blacky
Oct 10, 2007, 09:35 AM
We dont call it beta at this point anymore, these are RC's, I dont doubt that things like the aqua scrollbars can be completely fixed upon release, they probably have a global flag in their code which they can switch for the release compile, same goes for a number of different features which may be in there but have just not been enabled in the beta en rc process so the rc users dont get underwhelmed.

KingofAwesome
Oct 10, 2007, 09:41 AM
The lack of Fast OS Switching, full Resolution Independence and other "top secret features" from the beta's that Jobs has touted from day one from this most recent beta is disappointing. I hope there is at least one more beta release before Gold Master.

I can understand being disappointed that the Fast OS Switching was not feasible enough, but can't this be handled with Parallels or always shutting down windows with the hibernate command? I know neither are an exact replacement, but they should adequately meet most needs.

And please read through the threads - Resolution Independence is in Leopard, it just isn't enabled because it relies on developers coding for it and the existence of displays with higher pixel densities. This has been explained countless times on MR and once or twice in this thread.

The "top secret features" were revealed in June. New finder. New dock behaviors. Quicklook. Back to my mac.

FJ218700
Oct 10, 2007, 09:45 AM
So excited. Historically, what is the fastest way to get new OS's from Apple? Ordering online or going to stores?

Supposedly, if you pre-order from Apple's website, Leopard will arrive via FedEX the day of or day before it is available in stores.

Cabbit
Oct 10, 2007, 09:48 AM
You'll find those issues you encounter are more of MSN and Yahoo's fault that Apple's. The services you can't access have always been low on the compatibility list for those companies, that's life, send them complaint, don't misplace your blame.

Many people in the US use AIM instead of MSN. It's very common and works quite well, if you have friends with macs, then I'd recommend just getting a simple AIM account and trying iChat's text, audio and video based chats. They really rock, and you can't even compare them to MSN or Yahoo.

MSN and Yahoo support in iChat isn't something Apple can just add, it's not their call, it's the other two companies, both of which I'm sure would be against the idea, or charge significantly for the ability.

Instead of complaining about how useless iChat is to you because you don't use it, try complaining to Microsoft and Yahoo about supplying decent IM apps for the mac.

ok i will respond to this part of your reply the other part is relevant.

As for getting other people onto ichat that is impossible no one wants to open up a AIM account or pay for .mac for the privilege. AIM is seen as a real black sheep here. There was no complaint made about iChat i just dismiss it as useless to me. Because i have a fancy im program dose not mean i am going to force it on my friends. It is hard enough getting them to upgrade there version of MSN so i can transfer them onto yahoo witch is a lovely program that causes me no problems and dose most of the things i need it to do without skype.

iChat is useless if no one can use it. If it gains yahoo or MSN support then it becomes useful to 90% of the world. AIM is only an American thing, it even has America in the name. That is one of the reasons my colleges shun it, it gives them the wrong impression.

bgbrandon
Oct 10, 2007, 09:52 AM
Hi, I am new to the mac world and am a bit naive.. I want to upgrade to Leopard when it comes out, and am also interested in upgrading to iLife '08 right now. My question is, will iLife '08 be included when I upgrade to Leopard or will I still have to buy that separately? I know that people are down on the new iLife, but I have no choice, it's the direction my school has gone to in the classroom, so I am going to do the same on my own mac. Any feedback would be appreciated!:apple:

SiliconAddict
Oct 10, 2007, 09:53 AM
Since he is in breach of his NDA, no matter what "geek" he is, his comments are most definitely not legit. Just for making these comments to you he and his company could get into big trouble.

Wipe that smudge off your nose. :rolleyes:
And his company isn't liable since he didn't get it from his company. I've said this before and I will say it again if Apple wants to stop this **** all they need to do is release, release candidates. Its as simple as that. As long as Apple remains being an ***hat, this crap will continue and I welcome it. Big trouble. Yah whatever.

pdjudd
Oct 10, 2007, 09:59 AM
My question is, will iLife '08 be included when I upgrade to Leopard or will I still have to buy that separately?

iLife and Leopard have always been separate products. When you buy Leopard, you just get Leopard. Same with iLife. They are separate products.

elppa
Oct 10, 2007, 10:08 AM
As I'm running 9A599 on my Mac Pro, I'm a little surprised that Apple has declded on releasing this AFTER the fact as either Gold Master or Release Candidate. It has way to many bugs as well as unfinished graphical touches such as finally eliminating Aqua scroll bars and such. I'm hoping Apple thinks this one through and doesn't bow to pressure, I'd be more than willing to wait one or two more months in getting this ready. Plus I feel as though the efforts in getting the iPhone launched AND locked down are taking away from Leopard development. The lack of Fast OS Switching, full Resolution Independence and other "top secret features" from the beta's that Jobs has touted from day one from this most recent beta is disappointing. I hope there is at least one more beta release before Gold Master.

What are you going to do with the aqua buttons, radio buttons, check-boxes, sliders, sheets etc.

Aqua is not going away entirely in 10.5.

morespce54
Oct 10, 2007, 10:14 AM
Hi, I am new to the mac world and am a bit naive.. I want to upgrade to Leopard when it comes out, and am also interested in upgrading to iLife '08 right now. My question is, will iLife '08 be included when I upgrade to Leopard or will I still have to buy that separately? I know that people are down on the new iLife, but I have no choice, it's the direction my school has gone to in the classroom, so I am going to do the same on my own mac. Any feedback would be appreciated!:apple:

iLife and Leopard have always been separate products. When you buy Leopard, you just get Leopard. Same with iLife. They are separate products.

In fact, you will get both for free* only if you buy a brand new mac...

*Excluding 2K for the computer ;)

samh004
Oct 10, 2007, 10:28 AM
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: On the day Leopard is released, I will be doing the following in front of my local Apple store in the International Plaza, Tampa, FL, to raise money for the purchase:

* Selling my body (to females only*)

You'd make more money if you removed that restriction.

ok i will respond to this part of your reply the other part is relevant.

As for getting other people onto ichat that is impossible no one wants to open up a AIM account or pay for .mac for the privilege.

What you mean to say is none of your friends want to. Or no one you know. Since I got a mac in 2001 I have met loads of people that previously didn't use AIM and got a simple account (not like it's very hard now, is it).

As for .Mac, you firstly get a free trial with no prior commitment to buy, then at the end of the trial your allowed to use your .Mac member name with iChat without paying for the rest of the features.

AIM is seen as a real black sheep here. There was no complaint made about iChat i just dismiss it as useless to me. Because i have a fancy im program dose not mean i am going to force it on my friends. It is hard enough getting them to upgrade there version of MSN so i can transfer them onto yahoo witch is a lovely program that causes me no problems and dose most of the things i need it to do without skype.

You have no issues with the mac version of Yahoo IM ? Wow that's a first.

iChat is useless if no one can use it. If it gains yahoo or MSN support then it becomes useful to 90% of the world. AIM is only an American thing, it even has America in the name. That is one of the reasons my colleges shun it, it gives them the wrong impression.

AIM is mainly an American thing, but isn't restricted to America, many people in many countries use it and have accounts with it. It may not be their default account, but they have an account.

Many people use iChat, it's actually a very useful and well-used IM in the world of mac users. Where is Apple based ? America. Where do they sell a lot of their products and debut their products ? America.

Apple isn't likely to add Yahoo or MSN support to iChat. To do that they'd have to drop their very useful AIM partnership that's utilised by most of their customers (notice: I didn't say all, or you). Plus I'd imagine Microsoft would charge them an arm and a leg for the privilege, which to be economical, would mean every end user would end up paying more for Leopard for the "privilege".

If you don't like AIM then you do know you can use the jabber client of iChat for Gtalk, don't you ? Sure, it's not MSN and Yahoo which seems to be something you wont budge on, but yet another decent offering from another company.

You'll find lots of people who agree it's silly that iChat doesn't support MSN, you'll also find most of iChat's actual users disagreeing with you because the network it is on right now is working much better than MSN or Yahoo for them ever did.

You should try it some time, try a multiple-person audio/video chat, and then come back here and tell me that Yahoo and MSN really are better IM programs.

Note: I'm not saying you should switch all your friends, I'm simply saying your giving a really good application a bad rip because it doesn't work to the standards you already have... and there are many, many different standards out there... try some of the others some time and you might discover something.

Sijmen
Oct 10, 2007, 10:34 AM
Many people use iChat, it's actually a very useful and well-used IM in the world of mac users. Where is Apple based ? America. Where do they sell a lot of their products and debut their products ? America.

Where do they also sell a lot of products? Europe. We're not like, some underdeveloped outsiders. I can't help that MSN is the standard here.

You should try it some time, try a multiple-person audio/video chat, and then come back here and tell me that Yahoo and MSN really are better IM programs.

Sure. I don't personally know any people with a .mac account though (afaik).

badlydrawnboy
Oct 10, 2007, 10:35 AM
Can someone please tell me whether the "archive & install issue" for G5s has been fixed yet? That's a deal-breaker for me.

millerrh
Oct 10, 2007, 10:37 AM
I'm thinking that Aqua will go away in Leopard. I've got three reasons why:

1) We're seeing more and more Apps that are using iTunes style scroll bars and buttons and getting rid of the aqua stuff. Even the new finder has the iTunes style buttons already.

2) iPhone software is supposed to be Leopard, right? Well, all the buttons, drop down lists, etc. on web pages aren't aqua at all. They are the iTunes style gradient gray buttons.

3) Apple is all about consistent branding. Granted, with Tiger we have some brushed metal apps and some that are the matte gray deal, but they have made an effort to make everything visually consistent in Leopard. No more brushed metal. Now everything looks the same. But iTunes still has different scroll bars? Doesn't make much sense.

Maybe the scroll bars will remain aqua, but I think at least all the blue pill shaped buttons will be replaced for sure. And it wouldn't surprise me to see iTunes scroll bars.

Multimedia
Oct 10, 2007, 10:38 AM
Not multi-core aware!???!!!?! Maybe that's one of the "secret" features??? Leopard runs on just one core? Maybe by 10.5.5 they'll make it multi-core aware. Guess we really don't need a Mac Pro update since there will be seven cores doing nothing........ :mad:Relax Wild-Bill. And wait for me. ;) If you run multi-threaded applications like Toast and Handbrake it doesn't matter how few cores the system uses. I know I can use all 8 by only running one application like Handbrake. So bring it on.

hotdamn
Oct 10, 2007, 10:39 AM
Where do they also sell a lot of products? Europe. We're not like, some underdeveloped outsiders. I can't help that MSN is the standard here.

and the M in MSN stands for...

hotdamn
Oct 10, 2007, 10:39 AM
Relax Wile-Bill. And wait for me. ;) If you run multi-threaded applications like Toast and Handbrake it doesn't matter how few cores the system uses. I know I can use all 8 by only running one application like Handbrake. So bring it on.

you sure love those quad macs, mm :)

Multimedia
Oct 10, 2007, 10:41 AM
Regarding iChat multiple audio-video chat capability:Sure. I don't personally know any people with a .mac account though (afaik).Where did you get the idea a .Mac account is needed? It isn't. All you need is a free AIM name from aim.com (http://aim.com)

Leopard iChat (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/ichat.html)

Sijmen
Oct 10, 2007, 10:44 AM
and the M in MSN stands for...

Microsoft.

Ever heard of Messenger for Mac? I hate it, but it's there. I use Adium.

jamesarm97
Oct 10, 2007, 10:48 AM
Supposedly, if you pre-order from Apple's website, Leopard will arrive via FedEX the day of or day before it is available in stores.

Does anyone know when the pre-ordering begins? I have the iPhone credit and can only use it online because the only store we have is the Apple Store in Bestbuy and they will not be able to take the coupon.

- James

Hard Nard
Oct 10, 2007, 10:49 AM
[quote=Genghis Khan;4303822]i agree, you can't have people preordering it before it's announced

I had my name put on a waiting list at my local reseller the day after WWDC opened.

So yes, I preordered Leopard before it was announced.

(sits back and splits a few more hairs....)

milo
Oct 10, 2007, 10:56 AM
As I'm running 9A599 on my Mac Pro, I'm a little surprised that Apple has declded on releasing this AFTER the fact as either Gold Master or Release Candidate. It has way to many bugs as well as unfinished graphical touches such as finally eliminating Aqua scroll bars and such. I'm hoping Apple thinks this one through and doesn't bow to pressure, I'd be more than willing to wait one or two more months in getting this ready. Plus I feel as though the efforts in getting the iPhone launched AND locked down are taking away from Leopard development. The lack of Fast OS Switching, full Resolution Independence and other "top secret features" from the beta's that Jobs has touted from day one from this most recent beta is disappointing. I hope there is at least one more beta release before Gold Master.

As long as the OS doesn't have any major problems, it doesn't matter that much if there are smaller issues on the disk. People seem to keep forgetting that apple can have a downloadable software update the day the disks ship if they want.

Personally I'd rather get the OS sooner than have them try and wait for it to be "perfect".

pgwalsh
Oct 10, 2007, 11:01 AM
I would just like to chip in and say that Leopard can't come soon enough. The new dock looks great so dose the new finder bar(much better than the current wight elefant). The unifid UI is cool too though i would have prefered it was a choice between the Mail.app and iTunes interface i like the white one better.

Stacks look set to really save me a lot of time and dock space, Coverflow in finder is a brillent idea i have about 300 files in my site directory that can be difficult to sort though without a little help. Will also be great for viewing images.

Also from what i have seen Leopard is a lot quicker than tiger but tiger is already pretty fast though not as snappy as Windows XP but a lot faster than Vista.

Quicklook is all fine and dandy but i see myself using coverflow more than quicklook.

Time machine would be great but my USB hard drive has been killed by the 10.4.10 upgrade so i can only access it form my 10.4.10/9 machine that has the .9 usb stuff tacked on that i was unable to do to my macbook.

Safari 3 looks like a nice incremental update it sorts a lot of problems with Safari 2 such as support with my sites WYSIWYG editior, and the inline search. Unfortunitly i can't use the beta just yet as it has messed up yahoo and msn making them annoying to use with yet no update form apple to resolve the problem yet. (edit installed the latest beta of safari 3 on my macbook it now works well, this may or may not be because of yahoo beta 2 though)

I look forward to iTunes 8 whenever that is coming but only because i don't like odd numbers lol.

I hope the 64bit in Leopard will work like 64 bit windows and linux were once the system passies 2GB of ram it jumps preformance by upto 40%, this has only been explained by perhaps extra registers being enabled.

Spaces is very cool i do miss virtual desktops form linux, ^_^ spaces makes it look cool.

The improvements to mail wont help me a bit i plan to switch to entorage once office 08 comes out. Entorage is a much more full application to me.

And the changes in iChat are pointless without msn and yahoo support. I have over 100 contacts and not one of them use AIM its kinda shunned here.

Overall this is my impression. tiger is great, Leopard builds on the greatness.
I agree with just about everything you said except for the whole odd number thing as number 7 is my number. :D

As for the IM, I agree. I don't know anyone with AOL either. I use AdiumX and all 35/40 contacts are either on Yahoo or GoogleTalk. So like you, there's no reason to use iChat.

It sure would be nice if Apple announced a Gold Master and a release date. This is one of the most exciting updates for me since System 7.

Multimedia
Oct 10, 2007, 11:01 AM
Does anyone know when the pre-ordering begins? I have the iPhone credit and can only use it online because the only store we have is the Apple Store in Bestbuy and they will not be able to take the coupon.It begins as soon as they do the shipping date announcement. And it's true you will get it before the stores open if you pre-order it from Apple. FedEx builds up a queue of boxes for delivery either the day before or the first day store sales begin. It's' fun to get it before the store 'cause you can then go to the store with it on your mobile Mac and wait in line with others who also already have it on theirs and learn tips from others in line. Why get in line if you already have it? 'Cause it's a party. :p

See you in Palo Alto - downtown.

TFrank2
Oct 10, 2007, 11:05 AM
It begins as soon as they do the shipping date announcement. And it's true you will get it before the stores open if you pre-order it from Apple. FedEx builds up a queue of boxes for delivery either the day before or the first day store sales begin. It's' fun to get it before the store 'cause you can then go to the store with it on your mobile Mac and wait in line with others who also already have it on theirs and learn tips from others in line. Why get in line if you already have it? 'Cause it's a party. :p

See you in Palo Alto - downtown.

Haha, sounds like a good plan to me.

samh004
Oct 10, 2007, 11:10 AM
Regarding iChat multiple audio-video chat capability:Where did you get the idea a .Mac account is needed? It isn't. All you need is a free AIM name from aim.com (http://aim.com)

Leopard iChat (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/features/ichat.html)

You can also use a trial .Mac account and keep the name (for free) after the trial.

Microsoft.

Ever heard of Messenger for Mac? I hate it, but it's there. I use Adium.

I use Mercury, the video is as good as it's going to get on that network unfortunately.

ATimson
Oct 10, 2007, 11:29 AM
Surely you mean the other way around? :P
No, actually, I don't. In the event that wireless didn't work out of the box and was fixed in a patch, with a laptop I could take downstairs to our router in the basement & hook it up with an Ethernet cable in order to perform the update. I can't do the same with the desktops on the first & second floor.

Data
Oct 10, 2007, 11:47 AM
You'd make more money if you removed that restriction.



What you mean to say is none of your friends want to. Or no one you know. Since I got a mac in 2001 I have met loads of people that previously didn't use AIM and got a simple account (not like it's very hard now, is it).

As for .Mac, you firstly get a free trial with no prior commitment to buy, then at the end of the trial your allowed to use your .Mac member name with iChat without paying for the rest of the features.



You have no issues with the mac version of Yahoo IM ? Wow that's a first.



AIM is mainly an American thing, but isn't restricted to America, many people in many countries use it and have accounts with it. It may not be their default account, but they have an account.

Many people use iChat, it's actually a very useful and well-used IM in the world of mac users. Where is Apple based ? America. Where do they sell a lot of their products and debut their products ? America.

Apple isn't likely to add Yahoo or MSN support to iChat. To do that they'd have to drop their very useful AIM partnership that's utilised by most of their customers (notice: I didn't say all, or you). Plus I'd imagine Microsoft would charge them an arm and a leg for the privilege, which to be economical, would mean every end user would end up paying more for Leopard for the "privilege".

If you don't like AIM then you do know you can use the jabber client of iChat for Gtalk, don't you ? Sure, it's not MSN and Yahoo which seems to be something you wont budge on, but yet another decent offering from another company.

You'll find lots of people who agree it's silly that iChat doesn't support MSN, you'll also find most of iChat's actual users disagreeing with you because the network it is on right now is working much better than MSN or Yahoo for them ever did.

You should try it some time, try a multiple-person audio/video chat, and then come back here and tell me that Yahoo and MSN really are better IM programs.

Note: I'm not saying you should switch all your friends, I'm simply saying your giving a really good application a bad rip because it doesn't work to the standards you already have... and there are many, many different standards out there... try some of the others some time and you might discover something.

You know what would work for me to, if Apple would release a iChat version for windows just like they did with itunes, i meen did you ever try AIM for windows, it's horrible and really ugly to on windows. Maybe if people running other maschienes than mac's would be able to use iChat , then it would become a whole new ball game, and Apple won't be paying anybody any fees for it.
But since they are not going to make any money of it either i'm sure that is never going to happen.

Still , i have to say ( i'm in Europe to ) iChat is great but aslong as it's Mac only it's pretty useless ,unless your friends only excists of mac users or if your based in the US or an other country were AIM is the big network.
Every time this discussion comes up it's the samething, people who life in an area were using AIM/iChat is common , say , hey don't blame apple or iChat for this, in the end it is much better than all the other IM software out there, on the one hand.
And on the otherside , people like me , who don't life in such a country/area, say, iChat is great and nice, but it is useless because nobody in my country uses it, except for the odd one out that has a mac, but even they have always got to use aMSN or something like that, to connect to "the rest of us" msn messenger users, to be able to do audio /video chat's ( forget about Jabber, thats only text ).
In the end i'm afraid that will never chance or atleast not for a long time,and the next best thing for me now is VMware/Paralles and xp on my intel based mac, that solves the problem for me at the moment.
Now , let that leopard free ;-).

Multimedia
Oct 10, 2007, 12:16 PM
Still , i have to say ( i'm in Europe to ) iChat is great but aslong as it's Mac only it's pretty useless ,unless your friends only excists of mac users or if your based in the US or an other country were AIM is the big network.

Every time this discussion comes up it's the samething, people who life in an area were using AIM/iChat is common , say , hey don't blame apple or iChat for this, in the end it is much better than all the other IM software out there, on the one hand.
And on the otherside , people like me , who don't life in such a country/area, say, iChat is great and nice, but it is useless because nobody in my country uses it, except for the odd one out that has a mac, but even they have always got to use aMSN or something like that, to connect to "the rest of us" msn messenger users, to be able to do audio /video chat's ( forget about Jabber, thats only text ).
In the end i'm afraid that will never chance or atleast not for a long time,and the next best thing for me now is VMware/Paralles and xp on my intel based mac, that solves the problem for me at the moment.
Now , let that leopard free ;-).iChat is not Mac only. It's cross platform with AIM for Windows.

samh004
Oct 10, 2007, 12:54 PM
iChat is not Mac only. It's cross platform with AIM for Windows.

I think the point he was trying to make were the elegant interface and multi-user audio and video chat's are iChat only.

However I don't know this firsthand as I've never been on the windows side of the connection, but I heard that it wasn't as nice an experience as on the mac.

Regardless, I don't see Apple releasing iChat for windows, that would eliminate a whole point of switching.

seashellz2
Oct 10, 2007, 01:00 PM
read a little tidbit on a UFO conspiracy site no less-
That Leopard will run on Intel and AMD CPUs-in other words, 10.5 for PCs
-----
The news will be announced officially the next week!

From a source within the company :

The next version of the Mac OS Operating System 10.5, codenamed "Leopard" is set for release this month, October 26, 2007.
A transition has been made in the setup process and this is :

The installer wont check for Apple Hardware at install time-all you need to run "Leopard" will be ANY INTEL, AMD or PPC cpu that has 866 MhZ and the SSE2 instructionsets alongside with 512 MB Ram, supported mainboards include Via, Intel, Asus, Dell, and others .

Users will need a Nvidia Geforce 5200 or higher classed gpu, similar to the requirements of Windows Vista, to be able to use "QuartzExtreme","CoreImage" and "CoreAnimation" - a technique that turns the Users Desktop into a fully 3D accelerated place of fun.

With this decision, Apple, who are no longer calling themselves "Apple Computer" want to broaden the distribution of the Mac OS and grow marketshare.
And make a ton of money while theyre at it.

The time seems the right time, as more and more users are dissapointed with the last release of Microsofts OS, "Vista".

The transition took slowly place, as Apple began to switch from the Motorola PowerPC G4 and G5 CPUs over to Intel Pentium, since that day "Macs" are in hardware-terms are more or less standard PCs, just built into Apples designed housings.

The next "Macs" wont have the "TPM" ( trusted platform module ) soldered to their mainboards, the only way for the installer to check for "genuine Apple Hardware", as well as this check is being removed from the Mac OS X itself.

Mac OS is a Operating System, based on FreeBSD - a Unix derivate - but comes with the Mac Interface, which makes the OS so simple to operate with. The various special effects of this interface require the CPU to have SSE2 support as well as a supported graphics-card.

With Apple releasing iTunes/Quicktime and their own browser "Safari" for Windows they were evaluating how the OS itself would perform on common hardware, and now the decision has been made :

The Mac OS is finally free to run on any recent model computer.

Expected release date of "Leopard" is October 26th.

A date that Microsoft must be very concerned about.
-------
Could this be an "...and another thing..." that Steve forgot to tell us about at the MW conference?

Multimedia
Oct 10, 2007, 01:08 PM
OK my mind is officially blown. But I will still continue to only buy Apple Hardware.

I think you need to add the link to your source site above please. That is not something you should post without a link to your source. This is not funny.

Scottyk9
Oct 10, 2007, 01:09 PM
read a little tidbit on a UFO conspiracy site no less-

I think that says it all...

chrisdazzo
Oct 10, 2007, 01:16 PM
Without a link to the source, the idea that Leopard will run on almost any computer (Mac or not) is quite far-fetched. Though, I have to say, the genius that thought that one up had better get a call from Apple soon. That's actually a terribly good idea, and if it worked... Wow. :eek:

Peace
Oct 10, 2007, 01:21 PM
The UFO thing is absolutely stupid and uninformed as is the writer.

OSX Leopard uses EFI..You can't just install it on a dell or a gateway or a home made system since those systems probably use a BIOS chip.

I'm all for UFO's and conspiracies as long as there's some proof and is logical.
:rolleyes:

Multimedia
Oct 10, 2007, 01:22 PM
Without a link to the source, the idea that Leopard will run on almost any computer (Mac or not) is quite far-fetched. Though, I have to say, the genius that thought that one up had better get a call from Apple soon. That's actually a terribly good idea, and if it worked... Wow. :eek:The trouble is in the details. Apple is in no position to write all the drivers necessary for OS X to behave properly on the millions of different hardware combinations that are out there in PC land.

chrisdazzo
Oct 10, 2007, 01:23 PM
The UFO thing is absolutely stupid and uninformed as is the writer.

OSX Leopard uses EFI..You can't just install it on a dell or a gateway or a home made system since those systems probably use a BIOS chip.

I'm all for UFO's and conspiracies as long as there's some proof and is logical.
:rolleyes:
And there you have it, folks. :p

Graefe
Oct 10, 2007, 01:28 PM
iChat is not Mac only. It's cross platform with AIM for Windows.

iChat is a Jabber client as well. So it's even more than Mac and AIM only.

Graefe

Orng
Oct 10, 2007, 01:35 PM
Crazy-ass tidbit from UFO conspiracy site about Leopard running on any PC box

While this is dubious at best and highly improbable, impractical, and not worthy of consideration without any kind of link, such a thing would be a game changer. And not necessarily in Apple's favour.

If anything, Apple would have to reduce some of their hardware prices, or offer a range of less expensive sub-Pro towers or headless iMacs, to keep people like me from migrating to an AMD machine running Leopard.

I would have a very difficult time deciding whether it's the hardware I like, or just the software; right now, it's both, but when wallet-opening time comes, I might sacrifice the Apple hardware if I have the option to use the Apple software and still be able to cover rent.

Realistically, i'd love to see Apple offer an AMD option, but it ain't gonna happen before my birthday, that's for sure.

GoodWatch
Oct 10, 2007, 01:43 PM
So this: http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page is a hoax?

aldalric
Oct 10, 2007, 01:47 PM
Does Intel have the pull to tell everyone who uses their chips that you have to ship your systems with Leopard, or we don't deal ??? I mean the thought of all Dell computers shipping with 10.5 makes stagers the mind...

Imagine a great os like tiger (leopard??) running on those blankity blank black boxes...

just might be a sign of the end of days...

jonahan
Oct 10, 2007, 01:47 PM
No, actually, I don't. In the event that wireless didn't work out of the box and was fixed in a patch, with a laptop I could take downstairs to our router in the basement & hook it up with an Ethernet cable in order to perform the update. I can't do the same with the desktops on the first & second floor.

No but you can download the patch with your laptop and connect it to your computers upstairs and transfer the file!

Data
Oct 10, 2007, 01:49 PM
iChat is not Mac only. It's cross platform with AIM for Windows.

OK , i should have been more clear about this, i mean the program iChat, i tried aim on a pc and it is the worst piece of IM software i have ever seen, thats what i ment, i mean the MSN network is also available for mac, but not the Messenger program from MS, that is not available ( in it's full A/V version ) for the mac.

MrCrowbar
Oct 10, 2007, 01:54 PM
OK , i should have been more clear about this, i mean the program iChat, i tried aim on a pc and it is the worst piece of IM software i have ever seen, thats what i ment, i mean the MSN network is also available for mac, but not the Messenger program from MS, that is not available ( in it's full A/V version ) for the mac.

Miranda

psychofreak
Oct 10, 2007, 01:57 PM
So this: http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page is a hoax?

No, but its not Apple, and I don't think they're going to support it, at least in the foreseeable future...

Simmerl
Oct 10, 2007, 01:58 PM
If AOL would finally merge ICQ and AIM, I'd be delighted.

All my pals use ICQ, and using iChat isn't so much fun, since in my buddy list, there are only ICQ numbers, no nicknames ...

GoodWatch
Oct 10, 2007, 02:01 PM
No, but its not Apple, and I don't think they're going to support it, at least in the foreseeable future...

The question with some was if it could be done at all (EFI, etc.). Yes, it can. But I still wouldn't buy a PC for that. I like the complete package. :D

Orng
Oct 10, 2007, 02:06 PM
As for getting other people onto ichat that is impossible no one wants to open up a AIM account or pay for .mac for the privilege. AIM is seen as a real black sheep here. There was no complaint made about iChat i just dismiss it as useless to me. Because i have a fancy im program dose not mean i am going to force it on my friends. ...

iChat is useless if no one can use it. If it gains yahoo or MSN support then it becomes useful to 90% of the world. AIM is only an American thing, it even has America in the name. That is one of the reasons my colleges shun it, it gives them the wrong impression.

I'm with ya, I have never met anyone with an AIM account, and anyone I've mentioned it to has LAUGHED! Except my grandmother in Arizona, but she stopped using it because most of her family, who are in Canada and Europe, don't use AIM.
Until I read this thread, I didn't realize that anyone in the US used it either, since none of the people I know down there use it.
I was always surprised that Apple included AIM support, I always thought, "who's leg did AOL have to hump to score that deal?" Anything AOL is such a joke around here that I find it almost shocking that a company like Apple would let them play.

matticus008
Oct 10, 2007, 02:15 PM
So iChat remains unused, taking up space, full of promise but unable to connect to the 95% of the worlds population that lives outside the US who ignore AOL with a vengeance.
Actually, AOL's IM service has double the number of active users of the number 2 service, MSN (54 to 27 million). Registering a .Mac account or an AIM account is pretty simple and free and doesn't involve using any AOL software or giving up any personal information.

Further, iChat supports Jabber, so you can talk to Google, Yahoo, or MSN buddies.

Still, I prefer Adium.

psychofreak
Oct 10, 2007, 02:17 PM
I use Adium for MSN (what everyone in the UK uses basically) and Mercury when I need video...I wish iChat supported MSN with video, so I could use that instead of the clunky Mercury...

Data
Oct 10, 2007, 02:28 PM
If AOL would finally merge ICQ and AIM, I'd be delighted.

All my pals use ICQ, and using iChat isn't so much fun, since in my buddy list, there are only ICQ numbers, no nicknames ...

I think you can set a name to the people that have icq in your buddy list, i think i did that with the 2 people i know that still use icq ;-).

InLikeALion
Oct 10, 2007, 02:29 PM
Can we PLEASE discus other aspects of the upcoming Leopard release than iChat??? That is such a trivial thing for us to be bantering back and forth about on this thread. Thanks

Data
Oct 10, 2007, 02:34 PM
Miranda


I get your point, next time some windows user friend wants to connect to aim, ill recomend trying this one, but would it not be cool, if they would have acces to the REAL iChat, in my opinion, if thewy could see how that looks and feels and works, they might take a closer look at mac OS X because they love ichat so much, now there is absolutly no reason to chance from msn live messenger, iChat might do the trick, but again that will probably never happen.

MrCrowbar
Oct 10, 2007, 02:46 PM
I get your point, next time some windows user friend wants to connect to aim, ill recomend trying this one, but would it not be cool, if they would have acces to the REAL iChat, in my opinion, if thewy could see how that looks and feels and works, they might take a closer look at mac OS X because they love ichat so much, now there is absolutly no reason to chance from msn live messenger, iChat might do the trick, but again that will probably never happen.

iChat relies heavily on OSX's internal APIs. It would have to be written from the ground up to work on windows. Also, iChat is a real bitch if you're behind a router (which most people with high speed internet have)... that's where skype excels, works through every firewall :)

mdriftmeyer
Oct 10, 2007, 02:55 PM
Actually, AOL's IM service has double the number of active users of the number 2 service, MSN (54 to 27 million). Registering a .Mac account or an AIM account is pretty simple and free and doesn't involve using any AOL software or giving up any personal information.

Further, iChat supports Jabber, so you can talk to Google, Yahoo, or MSN buddies.

Still, I prefer Adium.

I prefer Pidgin, the reason Adium can do what it can do.

http://www.pidgin.im/

Orng
Oct 10, 2007, 02:56 PM
Can we PLEASE discus other aspects of the upcoming Leopard release than iChat??? That is such a trivial thing for us to be bantering back and forth about on this thread. Thanks

You're absolutely right, I shouldn't have gotten sucked in.


Soooo....


Any changes to Text Edit? That would be sweet.

H.Richburg
Oct 10, 2007, 02:57 PM
I realized that I hadn't heard if Leopard is desinged to run all software that was developed under Tiger or Panther. Has anyone heard for sure?

Thanks

Sijmen
Oct 10, 2007, 02:58 PM
You're absolutely right, I shouldn't have gotten sucked in.


Soooo....


Any changes to Text Edit? That would be sweet.

The menu bar is too dark. Also the haven't substantially updated the About window for ages. I think I might wait for 10.6, which is rumored to have a G5 calculator!

Multimedia
Oct 10, 2007, 02:58 PM
I realized that I hadn't heard if Leopard is desinged to run all software that was developed under Tiger or Panther. Has anyone heard for sure?Some will while others won't without a Leopard update. All new systems "break" some software that ran on the last version.

And that's for sure. ;)

No biggie. All the developers come out with updates periodically anyway. If you're worried about anything in particular, just go to the third party's website and ask.The menu bar is too dark. Also the haven't substantially updated the About window for ages. I think I might wait for 10.6, which is rumored to have a G5 calculator!Yeah what's up with all that grass on the desktop? I think I'll wait for 10.6 after the lawn mower gets fixed. :p

gmackay1903
Oct 10, 2007, 03:00 PM
How about an announcement at the opening of the MacLiveExpo in London on 25th Oct and on-sale 26th October?

Whatever it is I will be at the Expo and (hopefully!) picking up my copy!

Sijmen
Oct 10, 2007, 03:04 PM
How about an announcement at the opening of the MacLiveExpo in London on 25th Oct and on-sale 26th October?

Whatever it is I will be at the Expo and (hopefully!) picking up my copy!

Dang, I want to go to London. I wanted to do that for a long time, this might be a good excuse.

Is the expo on the 27th, too?

edit: it is. Can't find anything on pricing though, what does it cost to attend?

Multimedia
Oct 10, 2007, 03:07 PM
How about an announcement at the opening of the MacLiveExpo in London (http://www.macliveexpo.co.uk/client/index.aspx?page=2) on 25th Oct and on-sale 26th October?

Whatever it is I will be at the Expo and (hopefully!) picking up my copy!Yes. October 25-27 (http://www.macliveexpo.co.uk/client/index.aspx?page=2).

gmackay1903
Oct 10, 2007, 03:15 PM
Costs £15 for the ticket, pre-registration FREE.


Dang, I want to go to London. I wanted to do that for a long time, this might be a good excuse.

Is the expo on the 27th, too?

edit: it is. Can't find anything on pricing though, what does it cost to attend?

psychofreak
Oct 10, 2007, 03:17 PM
Yeah what's up with all that grass on the desktop? I think I'll wait for 10.6 after the lawn mower gets fixed. :p

I fixed it...the latest builds have a space themed background :)

CJD2112
Oct 10, 2007, 03:39 PM
All I simply stated was that many rumors have indicated that Leopard is slowly phasing out Aqua. I don't understand why everyone jumped down my throat on that comment, especially when every beta build release has new graphical interfaces that are certainly not Aqua-esque, and given iLife '08 and iTunes and how Leopard has slowly been incorporating that design into the OS, people have made correct assumptions that there are still more graphical interfaces to tweak.

I understand having a difference of opinion, but is getting all emotional about a freakin software program really necessary? Sheesh :rolleyes:

mountainbiker
Oct 10, 2007, 03:42 PM
I am curious if there will be any (legal) electronic download methods available?

I have Parallels with a number of (yucky) Windows-only apps. Do you think there will be any issues (e.g., having to reinstall Parallel or the apps)?

InLikeALion
Oct 10, 2007, 03:45 PM
All I simply stated was that many rumors have indicated that Leopard is slowly phasing out Aqua. I don't understand why everyone jumped down my throat on that comment, especially when every beta build release has new graphical interfaces that are certainly not Aqua-esque, and given iLife '08 and iTunes and how Leopard has slowly been incorporating that design into the OS, people have made correct assumptions that there are still more graphical interfaces to tweak.

I understand having a difference of opinion, but is getting all emotional about a freakin software program really necessary? Sheesh :rolleyes:

I've been reading along all day and didn't quite notice what you're referring to..?

But I believe you're right - I and others have said on past Leopard threads that the bars on the Apple.com site already show us what the marriage between Aqua and iTunes scrollers will look like. Also, more and more elements of the Apple.com store are showing what Aqua buttons, etc will look like as the more muted/more serious blue.

CJD2112
Oct 10, 2007, 04:10 PM
I've been reading along all day and didn't quite notice what you're referring to..?

But I believe you're right - I and others have said on past Leopard threads that the bars on the Apple.com site already show us what the marriage between Aqua and iTunes scrollers will look like. Also, more and more elements of the Apple.com store are showing what Aqua buttons, etc will look like as the more muted/more serious blue.

After I made a few comments on Leopard, a few members thought my one comment about Leopard not being ready as there are still Aqua elements in build 9A599, I apparently upset some who felt my comment was very inappropriate lol.

You're exactly right. The Apple site does show a marriage of Aqua and iTunes, and a lot of those elements (such as the scroll bars in iLife, etc.) seem to be reasonable predictors of what might be in store for the rest of the GUI in Leopard. :)

lukechip
Oct 10, 2007, 05:09 PM
but you should still get your copy of leopard for free. but maybe not, i'm not sure if it's from when you order it, or when it ships. you better call apple about that

The wording in all of Apple's announcements of new OS versions has been the same. This is from Tiger (which was announced on April 12 2005).

"The standard Mac OS Up-To-Date upgrade package is available to all customers who purchase a qualifying new Mac system from Apple or an Apple Authorized Reseller on or after April 12 for a shipping and handling fee of $9.95 (US). "

Purchase = pay = order, so I think people buying new Macs prior to the announcement will not immediately qualify for a cheap upgrade.

Still, calling AppleCare and crying might help....

lukechip
Oct 10, 2007, 05:24 PM
How about an announcement at the opening of the MacLiveExpo in London on 25th Oct and on-sale 26th October?

Whatever it is I will be at the Expo and (hopefully!) picking up my copy!

Apple tend to announce a week or two early for hardware and major software releases, to allow the press to give them tons of "free advertising" (reviews / commentaries) prior to release. This way the queues are longer and Day 1 sales volumes higher etc etc.

To announce only 1 day before would forego this, so I think they will announce sooner.

ATimson
Oct 10, 2007, 05:30 PM
No but you can download the patch with your laptop and connect it to your computers upstairs and transfer the file!
Over what network? No usable router (since it's driving the wireless), remember? :p

Arnieaz
Oct 10, 2007, 07:48 PM
My primary interest in Leopard is the new development tools! The rest is OK of course :)

On a side note to psychofreak - Love your smiling pig picture!!
Would love to have a larger version for my email picture:D

Wild-Bill
Oct 10, 2007, 09:39 PM
What the hell are you talking about? The finder only using one core (source?)? It sounds like you only need one core since you seem to be only running the finder and NOT RUNNING ANY APPS. While it would be cool if the finder used all cores, I'm not sure what the finder does that would benefit much from extra cores.

No no no no. I wasn't stating that as fact. I was reacting to SiliconAddict's post.

vertgo
Oct 10, 2007, 10:14 PM
I guess you're either kidding or a pathetic loser. Now that I think about it, it's entirely possible you're kidding AND a pathetic loser.

dude, the next sentence says "Well that goes a bit far, I will steal it because i'm miffed and i don't want them to have my money til I am less miffed. And also because it's cheaper than paying for it." This indicates that the first sentence was hyperbole (since you don't have the luxury of tone to indicate sarcasm online, i felt it would be good to explain it... but still people like to attack the exaggeration like it was literal because frankly, it's easy punching straw men).

Do you even know what the point of having ZFS write is, and how that would be different from what you use now?

Well, I actually was going to have to build a NAS and have to use solaris because i'd like to have nice things like constant time snapshots, fast and easy to expand RAID, and keep video for a very long time with self monitoring for loss of data integrity. Now if Leopard could do it, then sweet, I bet it would work better with a set of Mac Pros which are connected to it as a media storage for video editing.

So in a word "yes"

samh004
Oct 11, 2007, 02:41 AM
If AOL would finally merge ICQ and AIM, I'd be delighted.

All my pals use ICQ, and using iChat isn't so much fun, since in my buddy list, there are only ICQ numbers, no nicknames ...

If your talking about your iChat buddy list, get info on each contact and enter a real first and last name and they will appear in your Address Book. Quite simple to do.

Sijmen
Oct 11, 2007, 03:02 AM
I wonder whether they have upgraded the scroll bars in iChat.

twoodcc
Oct 11, 2007, 07:50 AM
I wonder whether they have upgraded the scroll bars in iChat.

what is with people and scroll bars?

iMacDude82
Oct 11, 2007, 08:07 AM
It is possible that Leopard is done, but they are keeping the 'Gold Master' status quiet. Surely if they plan to release by the end of the Month it must be ready by now?http://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/smilies/blackapple.gifhttp://images.macrumors.com/vb/images/smilies/wink.gif

HuskyOffset
Oct 11, 2007, 08:19 AM
I would say "an even multiple of the physical pixels".

I would say "an integer multiple of the physical pixels."

thefunkymunky
Oct 11, 2007, 08:20 AM
what is with people and scroll bars?

Errm. SJ said the interface will be unified with Leopard and its clearly not. Different scroll bars and buttons used in the iLife apps compared to the rest of the system. The Aqua scroll bars and buttons look out of place with the unified theme. The iLife apps look much better.

Sijmen
Oct 11, 2007, 08:30 AM
what is with people and scroll bars?

I was poking fun at the whole iChat and scrollbar thing ;)

LukeAP88
Oct 11, 2007, 02:31 PM
I am sort-of a mac noobie, but I was wondering how long it would take apple to come out with 10.5.1. If I buy Leopard when it comes out, will 10.5.1 be a simple software update or will I miss out on it entirely unless I buy the new version?

millerrh
Oct 11, 2007, 02:34 PM
I am sort-of a mac noobie, but I was wondering how long it would take apple to come out with 10.5.1. If I buy Leopard when it comes out, will 10.5.1 be a simple software update or will I miss out on it entirely unless I buy the new version?

Software updates are automatically delivered to you. You can buy from day one and all future builds will be available to you.

CWallace
Oct 11, 2007, 03:05 PM
I am sort-of a mac noobie, but I was wondering how long it would take apple to come out with 10.5.1.

Depends. Likely a year or so, when they decide to roll-up whatever application and security updates they release that apply to 10.5.0.


If I buy Leopard when it comes out, will 10.5.1 be a simple software update or will I miss out on it entirely unless I buy the new version?

You only pay for what I call a "major" point upgrade, such as 10.4 to 10.5.

You do not pay for what I call a "minor" point upgrade, such as the upcoming 10.4.11.

GoodWatch
Oct 11, 2007, 03:11 PM
Software updates are automatically delivered to you. You can buy from day one and all future builds will be available to you.

That is, untill the next version. When Leopard becomes... Lion?

CWallace
Oct 11, 2007, 03:16 PM
That is, untill the next version. When Leopard becomes... Lion?

By then, we'll likely have 8-way CPUs as standard, so "Cheetah" might be more apt. :D

jackc
Oct 11, 2007, 03:22 PM
Depends. Likely a year or so, when they decide to roll-up whatever application and security updates they release that apply to 10.5.0.


A year until 10.5.1? I think it'll be a little sooner than that.

GoodWatch
Oct 11, 2007, 04:02 PM
Isn't it better to wait and see what 10.5 brings us? One could be speculating about 10.5.5.9 already :p

Update = bring components up to date within the current version of a program or OS (which is also a program...)
Upgrade = major revision of a program or OS, often bringing new functionality and/or changes in the UI and also a trigger for the publisher to ask you for money again :rolleyes:

psychofreak
Oct 11, 2007, 04:05 PM
By then, we'll likely have 8-way CPUs as standard, so "Cheetah" might be more apt. :D

Mac OS 10.0 was Cheetah...

Cavemate K
Oct 11, 2007, 05:06 PM
Cougar or Lynx, folks. Those are the two other feline names that Apple copywrighted.

Stevenup7002
Oct 11, 2007, 05:25 PM
Do they normally announce the final version is available the days it ships, or will they have another keynote showing off the final version?

5 keynotes in 1 year?! :eek:

psychofreak
Oct 11, 2007, 05:27 PM
Cougar or Lynx, folks. Those are the two other feline names that Apple copywrighted.

Maybe they will go with Cougar, but it will be odd here in the UK where that word isn't really used...

twoodcc
Oct 12, 2007, 06:15 AM
so hopefully an announcement today of the release date!

xUKHCx
Oct 12, 2007, 06:17 AM
so hopefully an announcement today of the release date!

I think so, a fortnight until the expected release date makes for a good count down. But the lack of developer seeds or further release candidate news in slightly worrying. Hopefully these fears will be quelled today.

headfuzz
Oct 12, 2007, 06:54 AM
<off topic>

Maybe they will go with Cougar, but it will be odd here in the UK where that word isn't really used...

...except for that Ford car that no-one bought. :p

</off topic>