MLB Hotstove 08 [Archive]

MacNut

Oct 10, 2007, 05:34 PM

The offseason doesn't start for another month.But we have started to bog down the discussion already. Rather then to discuss off season topics in a playoff thread its best to do it here. There are a lot of big moves that can be discussed now even tho the season is still going.

Rivera has said that if Torre isn't signed as Yankee manager that he might leave the team. NEW YORK -- Mariano Rivera isn't happy that Joe Torre might be out as manager of the New York Yankees and said the team's decision will be factored into whether he returns.

"I don't feel good about it," Rivera said Wednesday, two days after the Yankees were eliminated from the playoffs. "I don't see why they're even thinking [about letting Torre go]. I wish he's back, definitely. If you ask me what I would want, I want him back."

Rivera's contract also is expiring and he is eligible to become a free agent. He said whether Torre returns will help determine whether he remains with the Yankees.

DETROIT -- The Detroit Tigers decided Ivan Rodriguez was worth another $13 million.

The Tigers exercised an option Tuesday on the All-Star catcher's contract, retaining him for a fifth season at a hefty price.PHILADELPHIA -- Charlie Manuel might not be the only one earning a big contract from the NL East champs.

Now that the Philadelphia Phillies have signed their manager to a contact extension that could keep him in red pinstripes through the end of the decade, they're prepared to bump their payroll to a franchise high and ensure he has a contending team.

OK, so the payroll won't rival what the New York Yankees pay out every year, but pushing the salaries well past the nine-figure mark might be enough for the Phillies to keep All-Star center fielder Aaron Rowand and add the pitching help they need.

Team president David Montgomery said on Wednesday that the Phillies spent about $103 million in player salaries in 2007 and expects next year's figure to be "in that ballpark, or higher."

goodtimes5

Oct 10, 2007, 07:44 PM

The Dodgers will sign A-Rod.

zioxide

Oct 10, 2007, 07:49 PM

The Yankees are going to suck next year. And I'm going to love every minute of it.

MacNut

Oct 11, 2007, 12:07 AM

The Yankees are going to suck next year. And I'm going to love every minute of it.Why do you think that. A lot of young pitchers and only 4 free agents. Who ever is the next manager will get a good team to work with.

Jschultz

Oct 11, 2007, 12:24 AM

I'm really hoping the White Sox can lure Rowand back to Chicago from Philly. Prolly not, though. We are rumored to be looking long and hard at Torii Hunter too. Both seem to want too much money though.

itgoesbuzz

Oct 11, 2007, 12:30 AM

Jschultz

Oct 11, 2007, 12:42 AM

The more I talk to people about it the more I see A-Rod signing with NY or BOS. Those are the only teams that can absorb that massive of a contract and not be hindered by it. Im most curious to see who the Tigers get for SS and if they even try to make a run at A-Rod.

Can they absorb his contract? Last year you guys sat @ $95 million..is it going up again next year?

I know I don't want A-Rod in our division, unless he's on the White Sox..or the Royals, lol.

fotografica

Oct 11, 2007, 05:20 AM

The more I talk to people about it the more I see A-Rod signing with NY or BOS. Those are the only teams that can absorb that massive of a contract and not be hindered by it. Im most curious to see who the Tigers get for SS and if they even try to make a run at A-Rod.

I really hope he doesn't end up here in Boston. I'd put my money on the Cubs or Angels...

zioxide

Oct 11, 2007, 12:43 PM

Why do you think that. A lot of young pitchers and only 4 free agents. Who ever is the next manager will get a good team to work with.

Here's what's going to happen.

1. King George fires Torre.
2. A-Rod, Clemens, Pettite, Posada, and Rivera all leave.
3. King George hires new manager who gets basically a while new team.
4. They don't do well next year because it's a whole new team (any other organization would call it a rebuilding year), but King George gets pissed because it's not a World Series, and fires the manager again.
5. And so begins a vicious cycle and the Yankees go into a downward spiral for years to come.

Naimfan

Oct 11, 2007, 01:07 PM

I think the Yankees need to do the following:

1. Let Torre go--but do it graciously. Spectacular run, but the Yankees need to continue the grow from within strategy Cashman instituted. And Joe is not a great manager for a younger team without the veteran presences that are about to leave. From what I know, Girardi would probably be the best replacement--although I like Mattingly a lot, he has no experience. Keep him as bench coach.

2. Let Clemens go. He is done.

3. Keep Abreu. His professionalism and discipline at the plate (highest number of pitches per at bat in the majors) will help the younger players and will continue to help raising pitch counts.

4. Bring back Posada and Rivera at a reasonable salary level (what that might be, I don't know, but 15 million a year strikes me as too much).

5. Continue developing the farm system and their younger players.

6. Wait out Giambi's and Mussina's contracts and let them go. (Not much for 08, but frees up ~32 million for 09).

7. If they can get someone like Santana without breaking the bank of money or prospects, go for him.

8. Let A-Rod walk if he opts out. If he stays, fine. If he goes, just get a decent 3rd baseman--no need to have an all-star everywhere.

The four remaining playoff teams show that chemistry is an essential element--the Yankees just seem too disjointed (I know, not a unique observation). They need more glue.

iKwick7

Oct 11, 2007, 01:19 PM

I think the Yankees need to do the following:

1. Let Torre go--but do it graciously.

2. Let Clemens go. He is done.

3. Keep Abreu.

4. Bring back Posada and Rivera at a reasonable salary level.

5. Continue developing the farm system and their younger players.

6. Wait out Giambi's and Mussina's contracts and let them go.

7. If they can get someone like Santana without breaking the bank of money or prospects, go for him.

8. Let A-Rod walk if he opts out. If he stays, fine.

1. I disagree. Sign Torre for 1 more year. The thought of players leaving if he does seriously frightens me. You do not want to piss off Rivera, Jeter, and Posada.

2. Agree.

3. Agree.

4. Pay them whatever they want. We cannot afford to lose either of them, especially Posada.

5. Agree.

6. Agree.

7. Agree.

8. Agree.

The Yankees can not afford to lose Posada and/or Rivera. Posada is extremely undervalued. He is a huge part of this team.

If the Yanks manage to keep Posada and Rivera, next year does look damn good. Hopefully Petitte comes back- another reason to give Torre 1 more year- no Torre, no Petitte, I can guarantee you that. Look at this pitching lineup- Petitte, Wang (a healthy, non-playoff-choking Wang), Ian Kennedy, Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes. I seriously like that- and try for Santana or another free agent, so long as the Yanks don't give up any prospects.

Keep Abreu- I like the guy and he is a great influence on Cano and, especially, Melky. I'd say get rid of Matsui before Abreu (even though I like the guy).

And one thing I must say- I love how everyone was so anti Damon all year. The man was hurt. I've been a HUGE Damon fan- even back to his Red Sox days. The man is CLUTCH!

iKwick7

Oct 11, 2007, 01:27 PM

I couldn't edit my previous post for some reason. Hmmm... Anywho....

I would like to see what Joba can do as a starter. That being said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If the Yanks have 5 good starters next year, leave Joba as the set up man and let him become Mariano's replacement. Mariano has always said he wants to play in the new Yankee Stadium- give him a 2 year contract and let him retire after playing in the new stadium. Then let Joba take over as the closer. Besides- 2 years of Joba and Mariano closing almost every game just astounds me!

MacNut

Oct 11, 2007, 01:28 PM

Naimfan

Oct 11, 2007, 01:33 PM

1. I disagree. Sign Torre for 1 more year. The thought of players leaving if he does seriously frightens me. You do not want to piss off Rivera, Jeter, and Posada.

2. Agree.

3. Agree.

4. Pay them whatever they want. We cannot afford to lose either of them, especially Posada.

5. Agree.

6. Agree.

7. Agree.

8. Agree.

The Yankees can not afford to lose Posada and/or Rivera. Posada is extremely undervalued. He is a huge part of this team.

If the Yanks manage to keep Posada and Rivera, next year does look damn good. Hopefully Petitte comes back- another reason to give Torre 1 more year- no Torre, no Petitte, I can guarantee you that. Look at this pitching lineup- Petitte, Wang (a healthy, non-playoff-choking Wang), Ian Kennedy, Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes. I seriously like that- and try for Santana or another free agent, so long as the Yanks don't give up any prospects.

Keep Abreu- I like the guy and he is a great influence on Cano and, especially, Melky. I'd say get rid of Matsui before Abreu (even though I like the guy).

And one thing I must say- I love how everyone was so anti Damon all year. The man was hurt. I've been a HUGE Damon fan- even back to his Red Sox days. The man is CLUTCH!

Eminently fair. I just question how much to pay Rivera and Posada. I mean, $25 million each would be too much, don't you think? I think Posada is actually the more important of the two--Joba could step in to Mo's role (and I am a HUGE fan of Mo!). I think Pettite will come back regardless of whether Joe Torre comes back.

I think this team is at a crossroads. The right decision, IMO, is to go the younger route, and to let the young players develop. What they Yankees need to avoid is signing another old and expensive free agent. So I'd be all for going after Santana, but don't give away the house.

The problem with signing Torre for one year is just that I don't think he'd do it--he'd probably want three more years. So I think the better approach would be to let him graciously go, and bring in someone who is better at developing younger players and someone better at game management. That's why I think Girardi is a better fit than Mattingly.

Anyway, it should be a fascinating off-season!

iKwick7

Oct 11, 2007, 01:34 PM

The Yankees are about to undergo a huge transition as George Steinbrenner will be passing the team on in a few years. He is getting older and I think will give up the big decision making. The team is getting younger and it needs to get rid of the baggage and the over priced players.

I definitely agree they need to get younger. But I still think they cannot afford to lost Posada and Mariano, yet.

The pitching has to get younger, and it is.

I think this team is at a crossroads. The right decision, IMO, is to go the younger route, and to let the young players develop. What they Yankees need to avoid is signing another old and expensive free agent. So I'd be all for going after Santana, but don't give away the house.

Anyway, it should be a fascinating off-season!

Couldn't agree more.

MacNut

Oct 11, 2007, 01:43 PM

iKwick7

Oct 11, 2007, 01:46 PM

How many years do you give Rivera, He is not getting younger and wont be the star closer forever. I would give him 2 years but he will want 3. Posada had a great year but he won't have 5 more. How many years do you give him. Posada is an interesting case as if we let him go what catcher will we find to replace him.

I think Rivera would settle with 2 years if the money is right. He'll perform the same he has this year and the past- slow at the beginning of the year but still clutch when it really counts- the postseason.

Give Posada 3 years, maybe even 4. The thing with both of them is that they make great teachers to. Find a young catcher now and have him learn from Posada. Posada gives you 2 or 3 solid years as catcher and teaches the young kid while he's around. Everyone wins.

Don't offer Posada a good 4 year or so contract? I guarantee you someone will. Both these guys would do great as free agents.

MacNut

Oct 11, 2007, 01:52 PM

Rumor is that the Mets would offer Posada a big contract if he goes free agent.

iKwick7

Oct 11, 2007, 01:59 PM

Rumor is that the Mets would offer Posada a big contract if he goes free agent.

I've heard. I would, too, if I was them.

There really aren't any good catcher free agents out there. If Posada went to the Mets, I could actually see Lo Duca possibly coming here. Who else is out there??

As for Petitte, he is ready to retire, I think. That's why I believe no Torre, no Petitte. Love the man (Petitte), always have. They should hav enever let him go in the first place. I really hope to see him on the Yanks next year. Can't say the same for Moose though. His time has come and go.

iKwick7

Oct 11, 2007, 02:01 PM

Hmm... still having edit problems. My typing errors are showing and there's nothing I can do about it! :)

I must add- I really don't care for Lo Duca. I wouldn't necessarily want the guy, but there is a lack of options.

Naimfan

Oct 11, 2007, 02:01 PM

I could see giving Mo two years at a reasonable cost--let him pitch in the new stadium and then retire. He's now 38--how many 40 year old closers are there?

With Posada, 2 or 3 years tops. Can you say "Mike Piazza?" Piazza started falling off at about 33--Posada is now 36. I agree with trying to keep him, but if he demands a 4 year deal, let him go.

Mike Teezie

Oct 11, 2007, 04:00 PM

I hope A-Rod stays with the Yankees. Yes, that's right, I'm both a Yankees fan AND an A-Rod fan.

I don't have much more to add, other than I would somehow like to see Rivera, Torre, and A-Rod stay. Captain America/Jeter should have a word with the King and make it happen.

IJ Reilly

Oct 11, 2007, 05:04 PM

zioxide

Oct 11, 2007, 05:10 PM

I just read an article on ESPN where someone suggested that the Sox sign Mariano Rivera. Hahaha how much would that crush the Yankees fans?

fotografica

Oct 11, 2007, 05:14 PM

I just read an article on ESPN where someone suggested that the Sox sign Mariano Rivera. Hahaha how much would that crush the Yankees fans?

Lemme guess..It was Easterbrook right?:p I hope we don't even explore that avenue..

Naimfan

Oct 11, 2007, 05:21 PM

djbahdow01

Oct 11, 2007, 05:28 PM

I'm going to venture a prediction, which is that Alex Rodriguez stays with the Yankees and exercises his escape clause in 2009. I don't see how he's going get more than the Yankees are committed to paying him next year in the current free agent market. The closer he gets to 700 home runs, the bigger the salary he can command. I think he waits.

Does anyone know if Miquel Cabrerra will be eligible for free agency this year?

I believe Cabrera is still arbitration eligible with the Marlins till '09, there is a 6 year window right, and he was a rookie in '03. So unless the Marlins decide not to go to arbitration he won't be available, as is Willis.

He would be a great addition to any team, just would wonder what the marlins would want in exchange.

I'd love to see him in Boston if the Sox don't resign Lowell.

cycocelica

Oct 11, 2007, 05:30 PM

Torre, A-Rod, Posada, Rivera NEED to stay.

Giambi, Abreu, Clemens NEED to go. Abreu might be a good influence on the younger guys, but he is holding the team back. A complete was of money in my opinion. Giambi can preform but he is getting old and not where he once was. Don't get me started with the Clemens offer, I knew that was going to be a waste of money.

Moose stays if we can fit him, but the Yankees must look for a better rotation (prospects or free agents).

Other than the Yankees, be on the watch next year for the Mariners.

fotografica

Oct 11, 2007, 05:31 PM

This is A Rod's opt out year..He still has 3 years for $81 million coming to him. Texas is picking up a nice chunk of that money.

What's with the feeling with Lowe and the Dodgers??

zioxide

Oct 11, 2007, 05:43 PM

Lemme guess..It was Easterbrook right?:p I hope we don't even explore that avenue..

Bill Simmons.

IJ Reilly

Oct 11, 2007, 05:58 PM

I believe Cabrera is still arbitration eligible with the Marlins till '09, there is a 6 year window right, and he was a rookie in '03. So unless the Marlins decide not to go to arbitration he won't be available, as is Willis.

He would be a great addition to any team, just would wonder what the marlins would want in exchange.

I'd love to see him in Boston if the Sox don't resign Lowell.

The talk in Florida is possibly moving Cabrera to 1st. He made a lot of errors at 3rd last year. I was pretty sure he wasn't free agent eligible next year but even in arbitration he could become too expensive for the notoriously cheap Marlins management.

This is A Rod's opt out year..He still has 3 years for $81 million coming to him. Texas is picking up a nice chunk of that money.

What's with the feeling with Lowe and the Dodgers??

I thought Rod could opt out either this year or next. Either way the logic still applies IMO. His market value goes way up when he starts seriously chasing the home run record.

I believe the Dodgers have Lowe under option for next season. He had a rough last month or so of the season but then so did the entire team. LA can't count on getting Schmidt back in the rotation, and no other obvious options, so they'll need Lowe.

iKwick7

Oct 11, 2007, 06:09 PM

I thought Rod could opt out either this year or next. Either way the logic still applies IMO. His market value goes way up when he starts seriously chasing the home run record.

I'd say that ARod's value is extremely high right now because of the monsterous season he just jud. While I'm sure he'll have another great season next year, I dunno if it could be as good as this one was.

Sobe

Oct 11, 2007, 08:12 PM

Hotstove 08?

How about "Thread all about what the Yankees will or won't do" ?

But sure, I'll bite.

I grew up watching the yankees.

From the days of Dent and Nettles and Guidry through the Bobby Meacham days up to the Dave Winfield and Don Mattingly days.

Back in those days, particularly during the Mattingly years, what consistently bogged the yankees down were two things:

1) overpaying for old talent, not letting youth develop.

2) Musical chairs for the manager.

What finally made that team great in the late 1990s-early 2000s was stability in the front office and managers positions and building up from below with youth like rivera, jeter, posada, bernie williams, Andy Pettitte.

Now they have some young guys with the likes of Cano and Hughes, Chaimberlin and Cabrera. The last thing they need to do is create turmoil in the managerial position or bring in overpriced talent to push that youth to the sidelines.

It's time to realize that it aint 2000 anymore.

The diamondbacks have won a world series more recently than the yankees.

They didn't make it to the postseason all these years, but they did retool, and now they have an excellent shot at returning.

Naimfan

Oct 11, 2007, 08:19 PM

Sobe--

Me too! Don't forget Roy White leading off.....Chris Chambliss..... Nettles was one of my favorite players

I generally agree with you, although I think they need to let their young players develop while Jeter et al are still around. With Joe Torre--I don't know. I think this is the right time for him to graciously ride off into the sunset, and then a minute later I think he should stay.

Tough one, and I think a lot depends on what Rodriguez does. Part of me thinks they're better off without him, another part thinks that he's THISCLOSE to being a "true" Yankee.

fotografica

Oct 11, 2007, 08:35 PM

No mention of any other year as the opt out year.All I could find:
"He could opt out tomorrow if he wanted to, but I haven't discussed that with him," Boras said. "All those decisions will be made when we sit down and talk."

The Chicago Cubs and Los Angeles Angels are viewed as possible destinations, although their payrolls are dwarfed by that of the Yankees.

Rodriguez is guaranteed $24 million annually by New York in each of the next three seasons. But part of that would be offset by $21,304,500 the Rangers still owe New York as part of the trade. In addition, Rodriguez is due $3 million each year by the Rangers, money that is deferred a 2 percent annual interest rate and scheduled to be paid from 2016-25.

Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said that if Rodriguez opts out — and the Yankees lose that $21 million subsidy — the team would cut off negotiations.

"That would be my position, yes, that would be my very strong recommendation," he said. "There is a date and if you can make a deal before that date, fine. After that date, it becomes a much different economic animal. It makes less sense."

------

For the Red Sox,they need to address of the issue of Veritek's successor at catcher. Tek's getting older and starts to wear down late in the season. They've got a catcher coming up in the minors,but that's it..
I think they should make an offer to sign Lowell.He's a team player and a great player in the clubhouse.

itgoesbuzz

Oct 12, 2007, 01:44 AM

Can they absorb his contract? Last year you guys sat @ $95 million..is it going up again next year?

I know I don't want A-Rod in our division, unless he's on the White Sox..or the Royals, lol.

I think the Tigers could absorb it, but then they would be SOL for attaining any other quality players for a while, and then they would be hard pressed to resign guys like Granderson and Zumaya down the road. The only other reason the Tigers might have a shot is because a lot of their players are Scott Boras clients and they have a good relationship with him (Verlander, Pudge, maybe Maggs). I dont know if I want A-Rod if it hinders the club from attaining other players that much, especially when the basis for winning a championship is pitching. The tigers have good pitching, but it is young and bound to hit some bumps along the way, id rather have another quality veteran starter, but then again, those are pretty hard to come by. I would seriously doubt him wanting to come to detroit though, but it is fun to hear the guys on the radio speculating, especially since the Tigers were irrelevant for so long.

dukebound85

Oct 12, 2007, 01:47 AM

im a huge braves fan and of andruw jones. however, i feel the giants will pick him up

Naimfan

Oct 12, 2007, 12:51 PM

Interesting comments from David Ortiz, who said the Yankees would suffer without Torre:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/sports/baseball/12torre.html?em&ex=1192334400&en=6684214182d885b1&ei=5087%0A

I have to admit--my respect for Ortiz just skyrocketed. A classy thing to say.

Silencio

Oct 12, 2007, 01:31 PM

im a huge braves fan and of andruw jones. however, i feel the giants will pick him up

As a Giants fan, that's what I'm afraid of. He's still a good player despite his big drop in production this year (Why did this happen? Was he playing through injury or something?), and he's still relatively young (by Giants standards), but he's not a Barry Bonds-like franchise player and I have a feeling the Giants' ownership will go behind Brian Sabean's back and grossly overpay for him.

Still, I'd rather have Jones than the other CF name being bandied about, Torii Hunter.

MacNut

Oct 17, 2007, 04:46 PM

The Yankees finished the second day of meetings and no news about Joe Torre's future. Furthermore they said that if A-Rod opts out of his contract that they will not negotiate.

emegmac

Oct 18, 2007, 03:12 AM

You know there are other teams beside yanks, red sox, & mets. The cards have been the best team in baseball the last 5 years. This year injuries killed us. Next year we will be back on top. Mulder, Carpenter, and Wainwright. If they can pick up one more good arm we will be unbeatable. I would take pujols any day over A-rod. He doesn't choke in the post season and has numbers pretty much the same. Pujols has a higher career BA, Slugging Avg, OBP, He's 27 compared to a-rod 32. Albert has 282 to 513. Give albert 5 years at 30 HR a year and he has 430 HR. The big thing is Albert does not choke in october. Also he makes under 13 million a year, always a class act, never complanes about money. A-rod wants 30 mil a year is sad. Hope he opts out and loses money.

Sobe

Oct 18, 2007, 03:41 AM

the cards are fine, but they aren't exactly major hot stove players, which is what this thread is about.

If Arod opts out there's basically no way he's going to lose money.

The Yanks obviously want him, not for the least of reasons that his salary is being partially picked up by Texas. Something like $7 mill a year or so.

I don't know what his thought process is, but I have to think that despite putting up great numbers and winning a shelf full of MVPs, going to new york was not good for Arod.

He could be headed to breaking Bonds' record as a short stop, but the move had to accomodate Jeter so he went to 3rd. Big mistake. Sure he's a fall of famer, but he looks a lot better putting up those numbers as a short stop.

emegmac

Oct 18, 2007, 04:08 AM

Sorry I tend to rant, when I've had a couple. I was going to say Tony Larussa is on the hot seat. The GM is already canned, and I think he may be next,.

fotografica

Oct 18, 2007, 07:39 AM

Sorry I tend to rant, when I've had a couple.

Alcohol and keyboards can be a dangerous combination :p

I'm curious to see if anybody makes a move for Santana..I know he's signed thru 08,but he wasn't happy when the Twins didn't do anything at the trading deadline..

IJ Reilly

Oct 18, 2007, 11:40 AM

Sorry I tend to rant, when I've had a couple. I was going to say Tony Larussa is on the hot seat. The GM is already canned, and I think he may be next,.

No need to apologize. Regulars in the baseball threads know that any discussion not about the Red Sox or the Yankees gets drowned out quickly.

Hey, Jim Tracy is available!

Naimfan

Oct 18, 2007, 11:45 AM

No need to apologize. Regulars in the baseball threads know that any discussion not about the Red Sox or the Yankees gets drowned out quickly.

True that, although the Cards and Dodgers SHOULD be in the discussion--since those teams have, IMO, two of the best baseball traditions around.

IJ Reilly

Oct 18, 2007, 12:13 PM

True that, although the Cards and Dodgers SHOULD be in the discussion--since those teams have, IMO, two of the best baseball traditions around.

The Dodger tradition has really suffered in recent years. The Fox ownership was a disaster, from which the franchise is still recovering. But yes, I expect the club to be an important hot stove participant. They've got a big hole at third and probably two positions in the rotation to fill, with nobody obvious coming up who can jump into them. All the other positions are pretty well nailed down, though they might be willing to part with Ethier or Kemp if the opportunity to sign a really big veteran bat comes along.

Naimfan

Oct 18, 2007, 12:47 PM

That's for sure about Fox ownership.

I've been a Yankee fan my whole life--grew up in northern NJ, first game was a Yankee game (against Cleveland--Yanks won it 7-3, Bobby Murcer hit a triple, Mel Stottlemyre pitched), etc. But baseball is better when the Dodgers are relevant.

Ditto the Cardinals (probably my favorite NL team, since my grandfather was friends with Red Schoendienst (hope I spelled that correctly!) and I got to meet him a couple times).

Living in Denver, sure, the Rockies are a great baseball story, but if they were to disappear next year no one would notice or care (much). So I hope the Dodgers get better, but not so much better that they run away and hide from the division (which I think they can do just from a revenue base perspective).

The Dodger tradition has really suffered in recent years. The Fox ownership was a disaster, from which the franchise is still recovering. But yes, I expect the club to be an important hot stove participant. They've got a big hole at third and probably two positions in the rotation to fill, with nobody obvious coming up who can jump into them. All the other positions are pretty well nailed down, though they might be willing to part with Ethier or Kemp if the opportunity to sign a really big veteran bat comes along.

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 12:57 PM

I'm curious to see if anybody makes a move for Santana..I know he's signed thru 08,but he wasn't happy when the Twins didn't do anything at the trading deadline..The Twins are going to try to get as much as possible for Santana. Once he goes free agency the Twins wont get anything. Expect him to be traded at some point.

IJ Reilly

Oct 18, 2007, 02:14 PM

Living in Denver, sure, the Rockies are a great baseball story, but if they were to disappear next year no one would notice or care (much). So I hope the Dodgers get better, but not so much better that they run away and hide from the division (which I think they can do just from a revenue base perspective).

Cinderella teams have a way of turning into pumpkins at midnight. But Colorado is so much better than anyone expected them to be that I don't think they're going to become immediately irrelevant. Arizona, either. San Diego is always a force to be reckoned with and the Giants are going to be rebuilding. So nobody is going to run away with this division for several years to come, IMO.

The Dodgers could theoretically pull a Red Sox or a Yankees and spend way more than any other team in the division in an effort to buy a pennant. I hope they don't, if only because we see year after year the limitations on that strategy. The fact is, if a team's farm system sucks, then the team probably won't have the depth required to go all the way. The Dodgers' farm system, which was once the best in baseball, was decimated during the Fox years. It's only now showing some signs of life again.

Bottom line, I think the Dodgers are dealing for one if not two marquee impact players and a starting pitcher or two, and standing pat with the young talent as much as possible.

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 03:03 PM

Expect an announcement about Joe Torre within the hour....

iKwick7

Oct 18, 2007, 03:07 PM

Expect an announcement about Joe Torre within the hour....

beat me to it!

Been listening to wfan

Naimfan

Oct 18, 2007, 03:14 PM

And? Which way is WFAN suggesting it will go?

CNNSI's Jon Heymann is suggesting they are closing in on a new deal....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/10/18/torre.thursday/index.html

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 03:24 PM

The thinking is that they would not fly Torre to Tampa to fire him.

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 04:08 PM

Joe Torre turned down a 1 year 5 million dollar contract with million dollar incentives every round of the playoffs plus an option for a second year. TAMPA, Fla. -- Joe Torre turned down the New York Yankees' offer to return as manager on Thursday.

The Yankees offered Torre a one-year deal with a base salary of $5 million and incentives that would have increased his salary to $8 million based on postseason performance. Under that offer, if Torre reached the World Series in 2008, an option for 2009 would have vested.

zioxide

Oct 18, 2007, 04:10 PM

haha yankees are screwed. I guess Torre was sick of getting **** on by the upper management.

also MacNut, you don't have to post 3 times in a row :P use teh edit

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 04:13 PM

haha yankees are screwed. I guess Torre was sick of getting **** on by the upper management,The Yankees are not dead in the water yet, they still have great talent.

Bosox3

Oct 18, 2007, 04:16 PM

The Twins are going to try to get as much as possible for Santana. Once he goes free agency the Twins wont get anything. Expect him to be traded at some point.

Ive heard rumors of Santana to Boston for Buchholz/Lester and Crisp.
As much as I wouldnt like to give up Buchholz...Santana is a cy young pitcher and is proven.

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 04:19 PM

Ive heard rumors of Santana to Boston for Buchholz/Lester and Crisp.
As much as I wouldnt like to give up Buchholz...Santana is a cy young pitcher and is proven.

W/ Hunter going to either Washington or Atlanta..Crisp will fit perfectly.What are the Twins gonna want with Crisp. I heard they are going to resign Hunter.

Bosox3

Oct 18, 2007, 04:20 PM

What are the Twins gonna want with Crisp.

W/ Hunter going to either Washington or Atlanta..Crisp will fit perfectly.

zioxide

Oct 18, 2007, 04:23 PM

The Yankees are not dead in the water yet, they still have great talent.

Yeah, until A-rod, posada, and mo rivera all leave. That's also what the Chargers said after they got rid of Marty. :P

Ive heard rumors of Santana to Boston for Buchholz/Lester and Crisp.
As much as I wouldnt like to give up Buchholz...Santana is a cy young pitcher and is proven.

Ew.. no **** that.

Lester and Buchholz are both going to be quality starters for us for years to come. I think the ALCS proves that you need pitching depth more than just one Cy young pitcher.

Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, and Buchholz, and Wakefield would be a much better rotation than Beckett, Matsuzaka, Santana, Wakefield, and Tavarez.

I do see Crisp being traded in the off season, maybe for some minor leaguers or something. Jacoby Ellsbury will be the starting center fielder next year.

emegmac

Oct 18, 2007, 04:26 PM

Joe Torre turned down a 1 year 5 million dollar contract with million dollar incentives every round of the playoffs plus an option for a second year.

I think Joe done the right thing. He is a proven leader of the team. The Yankees should show a little respect and at least give him more than one year. Its not healthy to always be worried about losing your job.

Bosox3

Oct 18, 2007, 04:30 PM

Yeah, until A-rod, posada, and mo rivera all leave.

Ew.. no **** that.

Lester and Buchholz are both going to be quality starts for us for years to come. I think the ALCS proves that you need pitching depth more than just one Cy young pitcher.

Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, and Buchholz, and Wakefield would be a much better rotation than Beckett, Matsuzaka, Santana, Wakefield, and Tavarez.

I do see Crisp being traded in the off season, maybe for some minor leaguers or something. Jacoby Ellsbury will be the starting center fielder next year.

Tavarez?? It wouldnt be him anyway. He'll most likely be dealt too, back to the NL. IF the sox have the chance to get santana..they have to do it!
The sox wouldnt have 1 cy young pitcher,,they'd have beckett and santana.
Lester and Buchholz dont make the rotation any better. You never know what you are gonna get out of them.

If arod leaves..its most likely gonna be for boston. Boston wanted him the 1st time..they're gonna go after him again.
Lowell w/ them prob sign w/ the yankees.

iKwick7

Oct 18, 2007, 04:35 PM

I wonder what Joe Torre turning down the offer does for Posada and Mariano.

Tis better to see Torre leave on his own terms than to be let go, but still: 5 million plus bonuses? That's like a million dollars per week in the playoffs!

Tavarez?? It wouldnt be him anyway. He'll most likely be dealt too, back to the NL. IF the sox have the chance to get santana..they have to do it!
The sox wouldnt have 1 cy young pitcher,,they'd have beckett and santana.
Lester and Buchholz dont make the rotation any better. You never know what you are gonna get out of them.

If arod leaves..its most likely gonna be for boston. Boston wanted him the 1st time..they're gonna go after him again.
Lowell w/ them prob sign w/ the yankees.

I don't know about that- if A Rod hated the drama that is New York, he will hate Boston that much more.

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 04:36 PM

I wonder what Joe Torre turning down the offer does for Posada and Mariano.

Tis better to see Torre leave on his own terms than to be let go, but still: 5 million plus bonuses? That's like a million dollars per week in the playoffs!Torre was forced out, they knew he would turn down the low offer so they look like the good guys that he turned it down.

The Red Sox wont give A-Rod that big an offer. 10 years 300 million plus

Bosox3

Oct 18, 2007, 04:37 PM

The Red Sox wont give A-Rod that big an offer. 10 years 300 million plus.

I wouldnt be too sure about that. The sox and arod will work some sort of deal out if this becomes the case.

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 04:39 PM

I wouldnt be too sure about that. The sox and arod will work some sort of deal out if this becomes the case.A-Rod wants the spot light and he wont get it in Boston.

zioxide

Oct 18, 2007, 04:39 PM

Tavarez?? It wouldnt be him anyway. He'll most likely be dealt too, back to the NL. IF the sox have the chance to get santana..they have to do it!
The sox wouldnt have 1 cy young pitcher,,they'd have beckett and santana.
Lester and Buchholz dont make the rotation any better. You never know what you are gonna get out of them.

Buchholz had what, 3 starts in Boston? He's got a huge amount of talent, and in 3-5 years could very well be a Cy Young pitcher.

Lester is also a great young prospect. He didn't do great this year, but hell, he only played half the year after coming back from CANCER. He's a quality starter.

Trading away 2 young promising prospects for one all-star doesn't seem like the best idea. It's like pulling a Yankee. Look at some of the bigger name guys we've brought in.. Renteria, Drew, Crisp, Lugo... those worked out well. :rolleyes:

Hell, we traded away a pitching prospect (Kason Gabbard) to get Eric Gagne. That should speak for itself.

Now look at what we've gotten out of the farm system:

Papelbon, Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Delcarmen, Lester, Buchholz.

There's no guarantee Santana would even do well in Boston. I mean, look at Gagne. Buchholz kept his cool in the 9th inning at Fenway when he was throwing a no hitter. These guys have already proven themselves.

If arod leaves..its most likely gonna be for boston. Boston wanted him the 1st time..they're gonna go after him again.
Lowell w/ them prob sign w/ the yankees.

A-Rod is not going to come to Boston. If he leaves NY, it will probably be for LA or Chicago. He doesn't want the pressure of playing in Boston, and the fans don't want him.

I think, and really hope that the Sox will re-sign Lowell. He's finally settled in to Boston and just had a career year. He's pretty much the MVP of this team.

Bosox3

Oct 18, 2007, 04:50 PM

Buchholz had what, 3 starts in Boston? He's got a huge amount of talent, and in 3-5 years could very well be a Cy Young pitcher.

Lester is also a great young prospect. He didn't do great this year, but hell, he only played half the year after coming back from CANCER. He's a quality starter.

Trading away 2 young promising prospects for one all-star doesn't seem like the best idea. It's like pulling a Yankee. Look at some of the bigger name guys we've brought in.. Renteria, Drew, Crisp, Lugo... those worked out well. :rolleyes:

Hell, we traded away a pitching prospect (Kason Gabbard) to get Eric Gagne. That should speak for itself.

Now look at what we've gotten out of the farm system:

Papelbon, Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Delcarmen, Lester, Buchholz.

There's no guarantee Santana would even do well in Boston. I mean, look at Gagne. Buchholz kept his cool in the 9th inning at Fenway when he was throwing a no hitter. These guys have already proven themselves.

A-Rod is not going to come to Boston. If he leaves NY, it will probably be for LA or Chicago. He doesn't want the pressure of playing in Boston, and the fans don't want him.

I think, and really hope that the Sox will re-sign Lowell. He's finally settled in to Boston and just had a career year. He's pretty much the MVP of this team.

Are you trying to compare Santana to Gagne? Gagne has been going down hill for some time while Santana is in his Prime. Santana is staying in the AL..so it wouldnt be that huge of a difference compared to the others youve listed.
and for the record..Gabbard isnt and wasnt a prospect.
You state that buchholz COULD be a cy young pitcher..well..Santana IS.

The fans dont want arod right now..but they are just sheep like all the other team fans out there. Once he comes here..he'll be loved. As much as I havent liked him...I do know he's one of the best players in the game right now and would help boston out big time. He'd have a field day in fenway and would become a fan favorite in no time.

zioxide

Oct 18, 2007, 04:57 PM

Are you trying to compare Santana to Gagne? Gagne has been going down hill for some time while Santana is in his Prime. Santana is staying in the AL..so it wouldnt be that huge of a difference compared to the others youve listed.
and for the record..Gabbard isnt and wasnt a prospect.
You state that buchholz COULD be a cy young pitcher..well..Santana IS.

The fans dont want arod right now..but they are just sheep like all the other team fans out there. Once he comes here..he'll be loved. As much as I havent liked him...I do know he's one of the best players in the game right now and would help boston out big time. He'd have a field day in fenway and would become a fan favorite in no time.

Gagne is no longer in his prime, but he was having a great year before he came to Boston.

Bottom line is baseball is a team sport. It's not about one or two superstars, its about each and every one of the 25 guys. Trading away a bunch of prospects for one guy is not worth it.

Also, I don't like A-Rod. I think he's an *******. And what happens when he comes to Boston and then tanks in the playoffs? No thanks. I'll take Lowell, who's the best defensive 3rd baseman in the league, coming off a career offensive year, has a better team attitude, and has also proven himself in Boston over a-rod.

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 05:16 PM

Hows this for a rumor, The Yankees don't resign A-Rod and go after Lowell.

zioxide

Oct 18, 2007, 05:18 PM

Hows this for a rumor, The Yankees don't resign A-Rod and go after Lowell.

The Yankees don't have a choice in the A-Rod thing. He's still under contract. He'll either opt out or he won't.

If he does, it wouldn't surprise me to see them go after Lowell, but I really hope the Red Sox manage to keep him.

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 05:23 PM

zioxide

Oct 18, 2007, 05:26 PM

Lowell is not stupid, he will test the market. I expect A-Rod to opt out and as of now the Yankees said they will not get involved. Do I believe them, who knows. But I do see the Yankees weighing there options and maybe offering Lowell a nice deal.

I don't really know anything about Yankees prospects, but do they have any infielding prospects that could take over 3rd base?

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 05:30 PM

I don't really know anything about Yankees prospects, but do they have any infielding prospects that could take over 3rd base?I think the prospects are a few years off.

IJ Reilly

Oct 18, 2007, 06:11 PM

YABTEATYARS!

(Yet another baseball thread exclusively about the Yankees and Red Sox)

zioxide

Oct 18, 2007, 06:14 PM

YABTEATYARS!

(Yet another baseball thread exclusively about the Yankees and Red Sox)

Well I don't see fans of any other team posting...

MacNut

Oct 18, 2007, 06:21 PM

YABTEATYARS!

(Yet another baseball thread exclusively about the Yankees and Red Sox)Nothing stopping you from posting.:rolleyes:
You find me some other huge baseball story today and we will discuss it.

IJ Reilly

Oct 18, 2007, 06:59 PM

Well I don't see fans of any other team posting...

You don't???

Sobe

Oct 18, 2007, 07:17 PM

emegmac

Oct 18, 2007, 08:57 PM

How about that move the O's made?

They got Rick Kranitz, the former pitching coach for the Marlins to fill the void when Leo Mazzone was fired.

This clearly puts them over the top and positions them to make a run at the AL East title in '08.

I didn't realize Leo Mazzone was fired. Wow. He would be a nice pickup for a struggling coaching staff. He was great with the Braves for many years.

Bosox3

Oct 18, 2007, 09:10 PM

How about that move the O's made?

They got Rick Kranitz, the former pitching coach for the Marlins to fill the void when Leo Mazzone was fired.

This clearly puts them over the top and positions them to make a run at the AL East title in '08.

With a healthy Chris Ray / Adam Loewen and hopefully signing of a another good starter, the O's might have a good run in them next yr.

Naimfan

Oct 18, 2007, 10:13 PM

You don't???

That's funny--I did. I could have sworn you posted a very good analysis of what the Dodgers need to do. Maybe I imagined it? ;) Oh, nope, here it is:

The Dodgers could theoretically pull a Red Sox or a Yankees and spend way more than any other team in the division in an effort to buy a pennant. I hope they don't, if only because we see year after year the limitations on that strategy. The fact is, if a team's farm system sucks, then the team probably won't have the depth required to go all the way. The Dodgers' farm system, which was once the best in baseball, was decimated during the Fox years. It's only now showing some signs of life again.

Bottom line, I think the Dodgers are dealing for one if not two marquee impact players and a starting pitcher or two, and standing pat with the young talent as much as possible.

MacNut

Oct 19, 2007, 04:08 PM

"I just felt the contract offer, the terms of the contract, were probably the thing I had the toughest time with -- the one year for one thing, the incentives for another thing," Torre said of his reasons for declining the offer. "I've been there 12 years and I didn't think motivation was needed.""We knew exactly what was expected here," he said. "So, I just didn't think it was the right thing for me, I just didn't think it was the right thing for my players."Torre said the Thursday meeting went 20 minutes and that there was no negotiation on the proposed contract terms. He would not disclose what terms he offered to manage the team during the meeting, other than that the team did not budge from its offer.

"The fact that somebody is reducing your salary is just telling me they're not satisfied with what you're doing, There really was no negotiation involved. I was hoping there would be, but there wasn't.

"If somebody wants you to do a job, if it takes them two weeks to figure out, yeah, we want to do this, should do this, yeah, you're a little suspicious."Asked if he would return if the team reconsidered, Torre said he wasn't expecting that to happen. He said committment, not money, was the biggest factor.

"I like to work with people -- there's a certain trust that has to be earned and forged in order to have the commitment to follow," "I can't answer that question because I don't anticipate it happening. If someone wanted me to manage here, I'd be managing here."Torre indicated he might not be done managing, either.

"That depends on sitting with someone and discussing what the job is. I still feel the energy level," he said. "Right now my contract [with the Yankees] runs till Dec. 1 ... I'm free to listen right now."

Would he return to Yankee Stadium for a ceremonial role, such as when Yankee Stadium closes in 2008 and its successor is opened in 2009?

"I'm really not prepared to comment on that," he said. "I've been very proud over the last 12 years to be a part of an organization that did very special things," he said, thanking Steinbrenner, his players and the team's fans for their support. "I took this job when I was 55 years old and my goodness, it's been the most exciting time of my life professionally, doing what we've been able to do in New York."

Bosox3

Oct 19, 2007, 04:35 PM

I don't really know anything about Yankees prospects, but do they have any infielding prospects that could take over 3rd base?

Im a huge fan of the minor leagues.

The only guy I can think of is Mitch Hilligoss. Mitch plays alittle SS and
3rd..but dont expect him up till atleast 2009..unless he dominates next yr.
besides him..there isnt much else IF prospect wise.

other guys to watch for in the future are:
C - Jesus Montero
OF - Austin Jackson
OF - Jose Tabata

Sobe

Oct 19, 2007, 05:22 PM

I hear people commenting on posada and rivera perhaps not returning with Torre gone, but I don't hear anyone saying that maybe ARod is more likely to return with Torre gone.

After the way he dropped him in the lineup in last year's post season, there can't be a whole lot of love lost there.

IJ Reilly

Oct 19, 2007, 06:17 PM

That's funny--I did. I could have sworn you posted a very good analysis of what the Dodgers need to do. Maybe I imagined it? ;) Oh, nope, here it is:

The operative word is "see." Boston and New York fans have a difficult time envisioning any serious discussions about baseball beyond the confines of their little enclave. You know, the rest of us just don't have a "passion" for the game, like they do.

I'm really amused by the Joe Torre situation. He was offered only twice as much as any other manager in the game and turned it down. As if some other team is going to pay him $7 million a season. I think Joe's spent too much time in Steinbrenner Land.

fotografica

Oct 19, 2007, 06:28 PM

...

Naimfan

Oct 19, 2007, 07:19 PM

Well, I'm a Yankee fan, have been forever (well, since 1973, anyway). And I saw it. Some of the fans there forget it's a big world!

I have to agree with you on Joe Torre. I think he was just right for the Yankees for a while, but in hindsight he perhaps should have left on his own accord a couple of years ago. In the beginning of this thread I thought he should leave, then later wavered. You're spot on about no one else paying him $7 million a year. I could perhaps see a team offering him $4 million, just to make him the highest paid given his record (which got worse and worse as more and more free agents were brought in.....).

The operative word is "see." Boston and New York fans have a difficult time envisioning any serious discussions about baseball beyond the confines of their little enclave. You know, the rest of us just don't have a "passion" for the game, like they do.

I'm really amused by the Joe Torre situation. He was offered only twice as much as any other manager in the game and turned it down. As if some other team is going to pay him $7 million a season. I think Joe's spent too much time in Steinbrenner Land.

MacNut

Oct 19, 2007, 07:27 PM

Who are the Yankees going to get for a manager that can deal with the press the owner and the players all at the same time. I doubt they will ever find a manager as good as Torre ever again.

The Yankees wanted him gone and by offering him what they did was a slap in the face and they knew he would never accept it.

The fact is that the Yankee front office is run like a corporation more then a baseball team.

Naimfan

Oct 19, 2007, 07:29 PM

Out of the candidates mentioned, I hope they go for Girardi. Loved Mattingly as a player, but I think the Yankees need someone who has actually managed somewhere. Don't you?

MacNut

Oct 19, 2007, 07:32 PM

Out of the candidates mentioned, I hope they go for Girardi. Loved Mattingly as a player, but I think the Yankees need someone who has actually managed somewhere. Don't you?The Yankees boxed themselves into a corner. The next manager will have to win the World Series or face being fired. At least that is what they told Joe Torre. They will not take the chance of Mattingly running the team because if he gets off to a bad start they will not want to have to fire him. The front office is already taking a lot of heat by the fans for Torre.

IJ Reilly

Oct 20, 2007, 12:17 PM

Well, I'm a Yankee fan, have been forever (well, since 1973, anyway). And I saw it. Some of the fans there forget it's a big world!

Thanks. ;) It's a point I've made many times before. The excuse I keep hearing for this attitude is that Yankee and Red Sox fans are superior to any other in baseball. Superior, my left foot. Try rooting for a team that hasn't won much of anything for a long time. That's the kind of real devotion to the game that many fans in New York and Boston will never understand.

I have to agree with you on Joe Torre. I think he was just right for the Yankees for a while, but in hindsight he perhaps should have left on his own accord a couple of years ago. In the beginning of this thread I thought he should leave, then later wavered. You're spot on about no one else paying him $7 million a year. I could perhaps see a team offering him $4 million, just to make him the highest paid given his record (which got worse and worse as more and more free agents were brought in.....).

This Torre business can only make sense to people in New York. To the rest of the baseball world, it's just bizarre. Torre says he's prepared to retire, but to stay, he needs twice as much money as anybody else in the game. Any lesser offer is just an insult to his... what? Greed?

MacNut

Oct 20, 2007, 12:47 PM

Naimfan

Oct 20, 2007, 01:21 PM

The issue was not about money, Torre said he was fine with 5 million but the incentives are what he didn't like.

I think money was a bigger deal than Torre wanted to let on: "The fact that somebody is reducing your salary is just telling me they're not satisfied with what you're doing," Torre said. From CNNSI.

Sobe

Oct 20, 2007, 03:21 PM

I don't think it was the money by itself.

What was he supposed to do if he had incentives, blow out Joba's arm just to see if he gets into the world series?

Incentives for managers like that is simply idiotic.

I think what Torre was looking for was a little respect for the amazing job he did in getting the yankees to the post season despite having a team torn apart by injuries all year.

I would have locked the guy up at least through the opening of new Yankee stadium and groomed Mattingly for the job (maybe give him a year in the minors).

The funny thing is, this is exactly the yankees I came to know and be frustrated with back in the 80s.

Of course then there was no wild card, so they simply didn't make it to the playoffs.

xsedrinam

Oct 20, 2007, 04:41 PM

Looks like La Russa's staying (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/10/20/bc.bbn.cardinals.laruss.ap/index.html) in St. Louis.

Sobe

Oct 20, 2007, 04:49 PM

I didn't see LaRussa going anywhere. I think he was just annoyed about not knowing who the GM would be first.

IJ Reilly

Oct 20, 2007, 04:51 PM

The issue was not about money, Torre said he was fine with 5 million but the incentives are what he didn't like. He wanted 2 years guaranteed. If he didn't win the world series the Yankees considered the season a failure and Torre would be out of a job. A Manager that has been to the playoffs 12 straight times is not enough for the Yankees if you don't win anything. That is why Torre turned down the deal. It had nothing to do with money. It was about respect. The Yankees can't give the most respected manager in the game money but they will waste money on Clemans. If the Yankees really wanted Torre to stay they would of made him an offer he would not turn down. This is a team that is known to throw money away.

Rule of life: Whenever somebody says "it's not the money, it's the principle," it's really about the money. I have never seen it work any other way. If you listen to even what you've said yourself in defense of Torre, you can see it really is about the money. Even without the incentives, he'd still be the highest-paid manager in baseball, by far. He's demanding the full price or nothing. Don't kid yourself, it's about the money.

Sobe

Oct 20, 2007, 05:14 PM

Rule of life: Whenever somebody says "it's not the money, it's the principle," it's really about the money. I have never seen it work any other way. If you listen to even what you've said yourself in defense of Torre, you can see it really is about the money. Even without the incentives, he'd still be the highest-paid manager in baseball, by far. He's demanding the full price or nothing. Don't kid yourself, it's about the money.

That fails the common sense test though, because now he's getting nothing.

If it is truly "all about the money" then taking a pay cut that still gives him several million would be just fine.

No one is going to offer him that kind of money to manage elsewhere, and it's pretty obvious that this was a move to say "hey we offered him a deal, he didn't want it."

It was a deal designed to be rejected and the yankees got what they wanted.

But make no mistake, they fired Torre.

They just didn't have the balls to actually come out and say that.

So it's not "all about the money."

It's about the money in the context of the particular offer given.

IJ Reilly

Oct 20, 2007, 05:30 PM

It's about the money in the context of the particular offer given.

Now there's a distinction without a difference. Torre thinks he's worth $7 million a year and he won't take less. If he doesn't get it then he won't manage next year. I don't see this as a matter of principle. He demanded a certain price for his services, or he'd walk. He didn't get his price, so he has to walk.

The same thing happened this season with Barry Bonds. He said he wouldn't take less than $16 million to play. He gambled that the Giants would be willing to pay it. Nobody else would. He gambled right. You might as well call that a matter of principle too.

Sobe

Oct 20, 2007, 05:55 PM

Now there's a distinction without a difference. Torre thinks he's worth $7 million a year and he won't take less. If he doesn't get it then he won't manage next year. I don't see this as a matter of principle. He demanded a certain price for his services, or he'd walk. He didn't get his price, so he has to walk.

The same thing happened this season with Barry Bonds. He said he wouldn't take less than $16 million to play. He gambled that the Giants would be willing to pay it. Nobody else would. He gambled right. You might as well call that a matter of principle too.

Find me one manager in the major leagues who would have had a string of nine straight division titles on their resume and a playoff appearance in every single year (12) he managed the club, including 4 world series titles in a 5 year span and accept a pay cut.

You won't.

Money, Torre said, was an issue, but taking a pay cut from a reported $7.5 million was not a big concern. The one-year offer and the playoff bonus system were the decisive factors.

And that's why Torre walked.

IJ Reilly

Oct 20, 2007, 11:55 PM

Find me one manager in the major leagues who would have had a string of nine straight division titles on their resume and a playoff appearance in every single year (12) he managed the club, including 4 world series titles in a 5 year span and accept a pay cut.

You won't.

That's irrelevant, obviously. Nobody will continue paying Torre the kind of money the Yankees have been paying him, including the Yankees.

And that's why Torre walked.

IOW, it was the money.

Sobe

Oct 21, 2007, 12:31 AM

That's irrelevant, obviously. Nobody will continue paying Torre the kind of money the Yankees have been paying him, including the Yankees.

IOW, it was the money.

yeah. sure. whatever you say.

iKwick7

Oct 24, 2007, 03:44 PM

ESPN is saying that the Yanks are offering Posada 3 years, 40 million. Thoughts?

I'd say that's a good offer. Please take it, hip hip Jorge!

Naimfan

Oct 28, 2007, 10:38 PM

Apparently A-Rod will no longer be a Yankee: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/specials/playoffs/2007/10/28/rodriguez.contract/index.html

I think he's making a mistake, and I hope to God that the Yankees stick with their position that they won't chase after him.

Teh Don Ditty

Oct 28, 2007, 10:40 PM

F**k him.

At least we know he won't go to the Red Sox.... cause he can't handle october.

MacNut

Oct 28, 2007, 10:45 PM

If that is the case expect the Yankees to go after Lowell hard in the off season.

It will be a dumb move by Arod as no other team will be able to give him that big a contract. Boras is maybe the worst agent ever not putting the best of his players ahead of his own agendas.

Naimfan

Oct 28, 2007, 10:47 PM

F**k him.

At least we know he won't go to the Red Sox.... cause he can't handle october.

I agree completely. It was a worthwhile experiment, and credit for to the Yanks for trying, but I think they're better off without him and with a couple other younger players. Plus, this means their payroll can be adjusted to favor pitching more--perhaps they can make a great offer now for Santana or just run with what they have for a year and continue building their farm system.

Teh Don Ditty

Oct 28, 2007, 10:52 PM

I agree completely. It was a worthwhile experiment, and credit for to the Yanks for trying, but I think they're better off without him and with a couple other younger players. Plus, this means their payroll can be adjusted to favor pitching more--perhaps they can make a great offer now for Santana or just run with what they have for a year and continue building their farm system.

Santana isn't a FA until next season.... the Yanks would have to give up Joba and Kennedy just to get him. It's not worth it. The Yanks need to rebuild and if that means Jorge and Rivera leave then so be it. I'd rather watch a bunch of youngsters than this current Yankee team. (yes, I do realize that the Yanks might suck... badly, but that's the price you have to pay)

MacNut

Oct 28, 2007, 10:53 PM

Going after Santana will be risky as the Twins will want Hughes in return.

The Yankees should of rebuilt years ago but they wanted the quick championships, interesting to see what the Steinbrenner brothers will do.

Koodauw

Oct 28, 2007, 10:54 PM

MacNut

Oct 28, 2007, 10:58 PM

I remember when Arod wanted to leave texas because he hated not being in the post season. Well he got his wish.

Now he wants to go back to that and leave the Yankees? Well good luck buddy.

Honestly.Arod wants to be Jeter, only problem is the Yankees already have Jeter, plus Arod can't hit in the clutch in the post season. It was a bad fit to begin with.

Boras wants the Yankees to crawl back and make an offer. I don't see it happening and if Arod really wants to be a Yankee he will have to take a pay cut now. The Yankees are in a great position now.

Naimfan

Oct 28, 2007, 11:00 PM

Teh Don Ditty

Oct 28, 2007, 11:06 PM

If the Twins want Hughes or Chamberlain the Yanks should say no. I just hope they do! What the Yanks need is a young Paul O'Neill. Maybe they could get Ian Stewart from the Rockies--he's a terrific third baseman--can hit, field, throw, etc.

Don--I agree with you completely. They need to go young and only bring someone in if they're on the upside of their career--not the downside. And they should be able to do it.

If they got rid of Hughes or Chamberlain, I don't think I'd be able to watch/root for them again. This is a very critical time in Yankeeland, and I think Cashman will stay the course (which he set) and keep the youth instead of trying to buy players.

The sooner Yankee fans (some, not all) and parts of management realize that the Dynasty ended in 2001 after that bloop single by LuGo, the easier this will be.

Koodauw

Oct 28, 2007, 11:06 PM

anybody have Drew Henson's Phone #? :p

Teh Don Ditty

Oct 28, 2007, 11:07 PM

anybody have Drew Henson's Phone #? :p

ROFLOL!

Naimfan

Oct 28, 2007, 11:08 PM

^

Seconded!

MacNut

Oct 28, 2007, 11:09 PM

They still need to name a manager, Girardi is the better choice but they also don't want to loose Mattingly.

Teh Don Ditty

Oct 28, 2007, 11:11 PM

They still need to name a manager, Girardi is the better choice but they also don't want to loose Mattingly.

I disagree, Mattingly can go suck it for all I care.

I found this interesting....

"Alex's decision was one based on not knowing what his closer, his catcher and one of his statured pitchers was going to do," Boras said. "He really didn't want to make any decisions until he knew what they were doing."

The way I'm reading that, we can say goodbye to Rivera and Posada.

Naimfan

Oct 28, 2007, 11:11 PM

Looks like Girardi may be the choice: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/specials/playoffs/2007/10/28/yanks.giardi.offer/index.html

Naimfan

Oct 28, 2007, 11:12 PM

I disagree, Mattingly can go suck it for all I care.

The way I'm reading that, we can say goodbye to Rivera and Posada.

Actually, I think that's just Boras spinning things.....

Teh Don Ditty

Oct 28, 2007, 11:15 PM

Looks like Girardi may be the choice: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/specials/playoffs/2007/10/28/yanks.giardi.offer/index.html

That would be glorious! I'm just so tired of everybody sucking Mattingly's d**k just because he's Mattingly.

Actually, I think that's just Boras spinning things.....

Perhaps so, but it could turn out that way.

MacNut

Oct 28, 2007, 11:25 PM

The Yankees need Mattingly, he is the most favorite Yankee of all time, if they don't give him the job he will walk away. The Yankees have bad enough PR as it is.

Teh Don Ditty

Oct 28, 2007, 11:29 PM

The Yankees need Mattingly, he is the most favorite Yankee of all time, if they don't give him the job he will walk away. The Yankees have bad enough PR as it is.

I couldn't careless about Mattingly. He was a great player, he ain't management material though. Like I said, the sooner we can stop sucking his d**k the sooner we can all move on and make the proper decisions for the organization.

MacNut

Oct 28, 2007, 11:32 PM

But will the players listen to Girardi. Some say he might be another Showalter.

Teh Don Ditty

Oct 28, 2007, 11:34 PM

But will the players listen to Girardi. Some say he might be another Showalter.

Why not? They listened down in Florida....

We'll see what happens.

MacNut

Oct 28, 2007, 11:37 PM

Why not? They listened down in Florida....

We'll see what happens.But these are veteran players, not rookies. I hear that a lot of people don't get along with Girardi but they like Mattingly.

iKwick7

Oct 29, 2007, 10:14 AM

Hopefully the Yanks keep their word and don't go after Arod. I would hav eliked to keep him if he DID NOT opt out- now I don't want him at all. And the balls to make that announcement DURING the world series. What a toad.

I also like his reasoning for opting out- because he didn't know what Posada, Mariano, and Petitte were doing. Right. Ass.

As for Girardi or Mattingly- I don't know on that one. Mattingly is one of my favorite Yanks of all time, but I don't know what his management potential is. I also don't know if anyone will respond to Girardi.

As for Santana- please, for the love of God, do not trade ANY pitchers for him. We havesome great young pitchers- Joba, Hughes, Kennedy. Don't make the same mistakes you have in the past. Please keep these young guys.

zioxide

Oct 29, 2007, 11:11 AM

I hope MLB fines Boras and A-Rod for leaking that **** during the WS

aloofman

Oct 29, 2007, 12:27 PM

The Dodger tradition has really suffered in recent years. The Fox ownership was a disaster, from which the franchise is still recovering. But yes, I expect the club to be an important hot stove participant. They've got a big hole at third and probably two positions in the rotation to fill, with nobody obvious coming up who can jump into them. All the other positions are pretty well nailed down, though they might be willing to part with Ethier or Kemp if the opportunity to sign a really big veteran bat comes along.

I fully expect them to overpay for someone, for better or worse. Maybe what bothers me most at this point is how the horrible Pierre signing has tied their hands when it comes to signing an outfielder with power. Pierre makes too much money to bench him, but he clearly is a waste of a lineup spot.

This Torre business can only make sense to people in New York. To the rest of the baseball world, it's just bizarre. Torre says he's prepared to retire, but to stay, he needs twice as much money as anybody else in the game. Any lesser offer is just an insult to his... what? Greed?

I read it as a response to the crap Torre has had to put up with. No other manager in the game has his job threatened every time his team has a slump. I interpreted it as stubbornness developed from dealing with Steinbrenner for so long. I think he just told them that if they want him to put up with this crap anymore, they'll have to overpay him even more.

If that is the case expect the Yankees to go after Lowell hard in the off season.

It will be a dumb move by Arod as no other team will be able to give him that big a contract. Boras is maybe the worst agent ever not putting the best of his players ahead of his own agendas.

Actually Boras is one of the most successful agents of all time. Many of the richest star players are his clients and he's proven he can get them the biggest contract possible. His agenda is enriching his clients and he does that well. It's how it affects the rest of baseball that makes him enemies.

The way I see it, Rodriguez's opt-out is worth it to him if he scores a contract that's richer and longer than what's left on his current one. He's taking advantage of his monster year and using the leverage from the Yankees turmoil. I'm not saying it's honorable, just that from the perspective of Rodriguez and Boras, it's the smart thing to do.

Naimfan

Oct 29, 2007, 12:39 PM

The Red Sox are probably too smart to sign A-Rod--he'd take WAY too much money and that would hurt their ability to lock up their young players. Besides, has A-Rod EVER been about winning or is he just about himself? I think the latter. My first thought is that he'll end up in Anaheim--they need the hitting and the publicity, and he won't be examined nearly as closely as he was in NY.

IJ Reilly

Oct 29, 2007, 01:10 PM

I fully expect them to overpay for someone, for better or worse. Maybe what bothers me most at this point is how the horrible Pierre signing has tied their hands when it comes to signing an outfielder with power. Pierre makes too much money to bench him, but he clearly is a waste of a lineup spot.

Clearly I'm not as down on Pierre are you are, but the simple fact remains that power-hitting center fielders are a rare commodity. If one suddenly appeared, either out of the farm system or free-agency, I have little doubt that the Dodgers would find a way to move Pierre. An experienced outfielder who can hit .300 and steal 60 bases has value to many teams, rag arm or otherwise. Not that it really matters, because to my knowledge the power-hiting center fielder of our dreams is nowhere to be found.

I read it as a response to the crap Torre has had to put up with. No other manager in the game has his job threatened every time his team has a slump. I interpreted it as stubbornness developed from dealing with Steinbrenner for so long. I think he just told them that if they want him to put up with this crap anymore, they'll have to overpay him even more.

I suspect so. But we'll find out if this is really the case when and if Torre signs with somebody else. I'm hearing rumors that the Dodgers are interested, but it's hard to take them seriously.

fotografica

Oct 29, 2007, 01:40 PM

MacNut

Oct 29, 2007, 01:45 PM

The Yankees have offered the Manager job to Girardi.

Sobe

Oct 29, 2007, 01:50 PM

I can't see the Orioles shopping Bedard:
Nick Cafardo expects the Orioles to shop Miguel Tejada this winter, which would surprise no one. But he's also hearing that Erik Bedard could be available. Trades of either might be unpopular with the fanbase. The trade market for starters could be hopping if Johan Santana, Bedard, and C.C. Sabathia are made available.

Per the NY Post:
This, obviously, is a major hit. Perhaps devastating when you consider how this period is playing out. It is possible that in one offseason the Yanks could lose such meaningful pieces of their history as Joe Torre, Don Mattingly (if, as expected, Joe Girardi is named manager), Ron Guidry, Rivera, Posada, Pettitte and A-Rod. All while having it accentuated that the Red Sox are now ahead in the Rivalry - perhaps way ahead.

Just heard on EEI that the Dodgers are negotiating to buy out Grady's contract to get Torre in..Any truth to this??

The Boston Globe is reporting that Bedard might be shopped. It's crap.

I can certainly see other teams asking for him, but there's no way they give him up.

He's signed for $3.4 million which is a bargain and he isn't due for free agency til after the 2009 season.

I could possibly see moving him after next season before his walk year if the O's cannot give him the salary he is asking for. But in 2008 for $3.4 million they won't find a better deal in baseball.

Tejada I can see, but the problem there is that his value has plummeted.

Girardi in pinstripes again...I give that 3 Meh's out of 5. Won't make any difference but the Yankees have a new manager to blame for not winning with a $200+ million payroll.

Will be fun to watch what Rivera, Posada, and Pettitte do now.

Aaaaand nice. Now Mattingly is gone.

Well done Yankees. At least now I officially have no reason to care about them in any way.

aloofman

Oct 29, 2007, 02:30 PM

Clearly I'm not as down on Pierre are you are, but the simple fact remains that power-hitting center fielders are a rare commodity. If one suddenly appeared, either out of the farm system or free-agency, I have little doubt that the Dodgers would find a way to move Pierre. An experienced outfielder who can hit .300 and steal 60 bases has value to many teams, rag arm or otherwise. Not that it really matters, because to my knowledge the power-hiting center fielder of our dreams is nowhere to be found.

I've never expected them to get a power-hitting center fielder. But a player like Pierre with no power OR plate discipline has to have a very high batting average or really great defense (Ichiro, for example) to justify keeping him in the lineup. He gets caught stealing quite often, gives up extra bases because he can't throw, and he regularly leads the league in outs made. I'd happily put Ethier in center if I could.

I suspect so. But we'll find out if this is really the case when and if Torre signs with somebody else. I'm hearing rumors that the Dodgers are interested, but it's hard to take them seriously.

Agreed. As successful as Torre has been, I can't help but think that his abilities are uniquely suited to the Yankees and less so to other teams. And the Dodgers' problems really aren't going to be solved directly by changing managers. They need young players to continue to move up into starting roles to replace the vets, and for everyone to stay healthy.

Just heard on EEI that the Dodgers are negotiating to buy out Grady's contract to get Torre in..Any truth to this??

The local media here hasn't given these rumors much credibility, so I'm skeptical right now. Around here people are much more fixated on whether Kobe gets traded. :rolleyes:

MacNut

Oct 29, 2007, 02:42 PM

The rumors are that Boras has already lined up a team for A-Rod just like he did with Drew before opting out. People seem to think that A-Rod will go to the Angels.

Sobe

Oct 29, 2007, 02:47 PM

The rumors are that Boras has already lined up a team for A-Rod just like he did with Drew before opting out. People seem to think that A-Rod will go to the Angels.

The angels are a silly fit, even though they need a 3B.

ARod needs to go back to Short stop where he belongs before that silly ill-fated trip to new york moved him to 3rd.

He was and is a better fielding short stop than jeter ever was and would be better than O. Cabrera too.

furcalchick

Oct 29, 2007, 04:24 PM

i'm glad about girardi. i liked him as marlin manager back in 2006 before the loudmouth loria and his midget stepson samson outed him and whined and complained about him. now girardi is manager of the yankees and those two have a mess of a team. and one of the local people just suggested that miggy cabrera will be going to the yankees.

and if i was a boras client, i would be concerned that he's cuddling arod like t.o.'s agent did to owens.

furcalchick

Oct 29, 2007, 04:40 PM

DETROIT (AP) -- The Detroit Tigers addressed one of their biggest needs Monday, acquiring shortstop Edgar Renteria from the Atlanta Braves for two prospects.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-braves-tigerstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

i'm thinking wren is betting his future on yunel, who i really like. he sounds like the second coming of furcal.

rdowns

Oct 29, 2007, 05:05 PM

The Yankees have offered the Manager job to Girardi.

It's now official. The George Steinbrenner era is over. Mattingly was always his guy and didn't get the job.

Sobe

Oct 29, 2007, 05:06 PM

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-braves-tigerstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

i'm thinking wren is betting his future on yunel, who i really like. he sounds like the second coming of furcal.

Poor renteria...

In 2004 he's with St. Louis. Moves to Boston in 2005, the year after they win the WS. Cards win WS in 2006.

Leaves Boston and plays in ATL in 2006 and 2007.

In 2007, Boston wins WS.

I guess I should go put money down on Atlanta to win the WS in 2008.

MacNut

Oct 29, 2007, 05:19 PM

It's now official. The George Steinbrenner era is over. Mattingly was always his guy and didn't get the job.I think its best for the team that George wont be as hands on. I just hope the brothers don't let it all fall apart.

So now the Yankees are the old Red Sox and the Red Sox are the old Yankees. Can the Yankees rebuild the right way and will the Red Sox collapse on their own weight.

IJ Reilly

Oct 29, 2007, 05:30 PM

I've never expected them to get a power-hitting center fielder. But a player like Pierre with no power OR plate discipline has to have a very high batting average or really great defense (Ichiro, for example) to justify keeping him in the lineup. He gets caught stealing quite often, gives up extra bases because he can't throw, and he regularly leads the league in outs made. I'd happily put Ethier in center if I could.

Well you did say power-hitting outfielder. If the right person came along, I think shopping Pierre would be no problem. It's not like the Dodgers were the only team interested in him last year and it's not like he turned out to be a different player than the one the Dodgers signed. And it's also not like the salaries for free-agents are declining.

I don't know if Ethier has the range for center. Has he ever started in center?

Agreed. As successful as Torre has been, I can't help but think that his abilities are uniquely suited to the Yankees and less so to other teams. And the Dodgers' problems really aren't going to be solved directly by changing managers. They need young players to continue to move up into starting roles to replace the vets, and for everyone to stay healthy.

I guess this is one of the real differences between Boston, New York, and the rest of the baseball nation. We're not calling for Grady Little's head. Put some tools in the man's belt and he'll do some winning for us.

The rumors are that Boras has already lined up a team for A-Rod just like he did with Drew before opting out.

That would be a big-time rules violation.

Sobe

Oct 29, 2007, 05:31 PM

I think its best for the team that George wont be as hands on. I just hope the brothers don't let it all fall apart.

So now the Yankees are the old Red Sox and the Red Sox are the old Yankees. Can the Yankees rebuild the right way and will the Red Sox collapse on their own weight.

Let's wait for the Red Sox to pass the yanks in salary, then maybe we can call it a flip flop in roles.

A $50 million difference buys the entire Red Sox pitching staff with money to spare, so let's keep things in perspective.

MacNut

Oct 29, 2007, 05:33 PM

When has Boras played by the rules. Everyone thinks that Boras was in talks with the Red Sox about Drew. He would not pull A-Rod out of NY unless he has something planned. To much risk there.

The Yankee dynasty years were low payrolls, it wasn't until after that they starting to spend. With the brothers in charge now, maybe they will cut back. The Red Sox might start to get greedy now like the Yankees did.

IJ Reilly

Oct 29, 2007, 05:59 PM

When has Boras played by the rules. Everyone thinks that Boras was in talks with the Red Sox about Drew. He would not pull A-Rod out of NY unless he has something planned. To much risk there.

I'm certainly no Scott Boras fan (every Dodger free agent he represented last year signed with another team), but if "everybody thinks" that Boras violated the collusion rules then why didn't the Dodgers press the matter? They were seriously pissed off, so they had the motivation. Also, it's riskier to promise something to another team for a free agent, if only because the price of free agents is raised by the competitive bidding process and not by agreeing to sign with one team without making yourself available to the market. It's also a serious violation of the rules. Getting caught is also a risk.

MacNut

Oct 29, 2007, 06:11 PM

I don't know what other team besides the Yankees that would offer A-Rod the money he wants. Unless he has other teams offering him a big deal it is a huge gamble that he wont see the contract like the Yankees were going to offer. It seems that Boras called the Yankees bluff and the Yankees are not going to play the game. Cashman just about said goodbye to A-Rod today so it seems like he will have to find the mega deal elsewhere.

aloofman

Oct 29, 2007, 06:44 PM

Well you did say power-hitting outfielder. If the right person came along, I think shopping Pierre would be no problem. It's not like the Dodgers were the only team interested in him last year and it's not like he turned out to be a different player than the one the Dodgers signed. And it's also not like the salaries for free-agents are declining.

I think that depends on whether his production improves or not. If his batting average sinks even lower (or an injury hobbles him on the bases), then the Dodgers still will basically be paying to get rid of him. As far as I'm concerned, the Pierre contract is an albatross.

I don't know if Ethier has the range for center. Has he ever started in center?

I was actually just tossing Ethier's name out there semi-randomly, but I wouldn't be that worried about his range. Left field will be better-manned with Gonzalez gone. And Ethier has a good arm and better fly-ball judgment than Pierre does.

I'm certainly no Scott Boras fan (every Dodger free agent he represented last year signed with another team), but if "everybody thinks" that Boras violated the collusion rules then why didn't the Dodgers press the matter? They were seriously pissed off, so they had the motivation. Also, it's riskier to promise something to another team for a free agent, if only because the price of free agents is raised by the competitive bidding process and not by agreeing to sign with one team without making yourself available to the market. It's also a serious violation of the rules. Getting caught is also a risk.

It must be very hard to enforce. There are so many ways you could communicate with a free agent-to-be through intermediaries. I suppose Boras is still taking a bit of a risk, but I would be shocked if he doesn't have suitors lined up already.

I think people are taking his $400 million claim too literally. He always starts with a super-high price to make sure the final deal is merely huge. And like I said above, he really doesn't have to make a half-billion dollars for the opt-out to be worth the risk. He only needs a contract better than what was left on his old contract, which should be easy. Anything that increases his total compensation is a net win, and since he just had a huge year, that seems almost inevitable.

I don't know what other team besides the Yankees that would offer A-Rod the money he wants. Unless he has other teams offering him a big deal it is a huge gamble that he wont see the contract like the Yankees were going to offer. It seems that Boras called the Yankees bluff and the Yankees are not going to play the game. Cashman just about said goodbye to A-Rod today so it seems like he will have to find the mega deal elsewhere.

Baseball teams are flush with cash these days because there's record-high revenue. Seven years ago, Rodriguez scored a record contract from a team that was NOT the Yankees, so why wouldn't the same thing happen again?

The genius of free agency for the players is that there will always be owners that think they're one superstar away from winning the title.

j/k/Andy

Oct 29, 2007, 06:53 PM

Poor renteria...

In 2004 he's with St. Louis. Moves to Boston in 2005, the year after they win the WS. Cards win WS in 2006.

Leaves Boston and plays in ATL in 2006 and 2007.

In 2007, Boston wins WS.

I guess I should go put money down on Atlanta to win the WS in 2008.

true, but all of that was after he won the WS with Jim Leyland in 97.

Should be a good move for the Tigers,

IJ Reilly

Oct 29, 2007, 07:07 PM

I think that depends on whether his production improves or not. If his batting average sinks even lower (or an injury hobbles him on the bases), then the Dodgers still will basically be paying to get rid of him. As far as I'm concerned, the Pierre contract is an albatross.

Injuries are always a risk with long-term contracts, but that's why teams insure against them. Pierre hasn't exactly been fragile.

I was actually just tossing Ethier's name out there semi-randomly, but I wouldn't be that worried about his range. Left field will be better-manned with Gonzalez gone. And Ethier has a good arm and better fly-ball judgment than Pierre does.

Choosing from the available talent, I think Kemp would be a better candidate for center. Better arm and faster than Ethier.

It must be very hard to enforce. There are so many ways you could communicate with a free agent-to-be through intermediaries. I suppose Boras is still taking a bit of a risk, but I would be shocked if he doesn't have suitors lined up already.

I think people are taking his $400 million claim too literally. He always starts with a super-high price to make sure the final deal is merely huge. And like I said above, he really doesn't have to make a half-billion dollars for the opt-out to be worth the risk. He only needs a contract better than what was left on his old contract, which should be easy. Anything that increases his total compensation is a net win, and since he just had a huge year, that seems almost inevitable.

Granted Boston is the most likely team to spend the money Rodriquez would demand but that's only because the Yankees are presumably out of the bidding. I don't suppose it takes any outright collusion to know that.

fotografica

Oct 29, 2007, 07:14 PM

The Yankee dynasty years were low payrolls, it wasn't until after that they starting to spend. With the brothers in charge now, maybe they will cut back. The Red Sox might start to get greedy now like the Yankees did.

What do you think is going to happen when the Yankees get their new stadium? The team is going to suddenly become value conscious?You think their payroll is high now,wait till the new stadium opens....

MacNut

Oct 29, 2007, 07:57 PM

What do you think is going to happen when the Yankees get their new stadium? The team is going to suddenly become value conscious?You think their payroll is high now,wait till the new stadium opens....If that was the case then they would of gone hard after A-Rod, The fact that they are letting him go means that they want to cut costs.

How much are the Red Sox willing to give Lowell to keep him around. Now we get to see what Theo is made of.

fotografica

Oct 29, 2007, 08:02 PM

If that was the case then they would of gone hard after A-Rod, The fact that they are letting him go means that they want to cut costs.

How much are the Red Sox willing to give Lowell to keep him around. Now we get to see what Theo is made of.

With that revenue stream,they're going to suddenly become frugal? Maybe they just realized A Rod isn't/never was the answer...

More like how many years for Lowell...

Naimfan

Oct 29, 2007, 08:05 PM

If that was the case then they would of gone hard after A-Rod, The fact that they are letting him go means that they want to cut costs.

How much are the Red Sox willing to give Lowell to keep him around. Now we get to see what Theo is made of.

Actually, I think we've seen what Theo is made of...... he's put together two World Series champions. Quite a resume.

And I know this is not quite the right spot, but Congratulations to the Red Sox! They were the better team in the Series, and not by a small margin.

I think the Yankees are interested in at least containing costs, but given their published revenue streams they have a LOT more containment space than any other team. That said, I think the Yankees will be just fine without Rodriguez, and, perhaps, a better TEAM. Addition by subtraction, as many others have noted. Let's face it--the Yankees need to do some major culling of their roster, and this is a terrific opportunity they were not guaranteed to have.

Sobe

Oct 29, 2007, 08:14 PM

I think the Yankees are interested in at least containing costs, but given their published revenue streams they have a LOT more containment space than any other team. That said, I think the Yankees will be just fine without Rodriguez, and, perhaps, a better TEAM. Addition by subtraction, as many others have noted. Let's face it--the Yankees need to do some major culling of their roster, and this is a terrific opportunity they were not guaranteed to have.

I don't see how losing a guy who won 1 mvp in 3 years and is a lock to win another this year helps in any way shape or form.

Arod *carried* the yankees this year and I think the yankees will miss him terribly.

Ohg sure they'll find someone other than Wilson Betemit to play third probably, but you don't lose 50+ HR, 150+ rbi, and 140+ runs and see no difference.

Not even adding a bat like miguel cabrera will get you those numbers.

Naimfan

Oct 29, 2007, 08:29 PM

I don't see how losing a guy who won 1 mvp in 3 years and is a lock to win another this year helps in any way shape or form

You ARE familiar with the term "team?" And with the idea that baseball is a team game?

Arod *carried* the yankees this year and I think the yankees will miss him terribly.

Oh[] sure they'll find someone other than Wilson Betemit to play third probably, but you don't lose 50+ HR, 150+ rbi, and 140+ runs and see no difference.

I did not say that they wouldn't miss his numbers--kindly point to where I wrote that? My point is that the Yankees have the potential to be a better team because there will not be so much attention paid to someone for his salary and production. While it is a cliche, the Yankees target the World Series and are one of the few teams for which that is realistic. But winning a Series depends on a lot more than having numbers. Now relieved from the drama that was Rodriguez, the Yankees can hopefully build better chemistry, spend the money on developing their young players (those already at the major league level and below), and identify and bring in new talent. And it's not like the Yankees haven't let other players go....

They also have an opportunity for some good PR for saying no to Boras. I only hope they stick to their guns and wave goodbye. And I don't mean that to suggest I dislike Rodriguez or that I don't appreciate what he has done on the field.

zioxide

Oct 29, 2007, 08:35 PM

I'm going to laugh when nobody offers A-Rod the kind of money Boras thinks he can get. They're both *******s.

MacNut

Oct 29, 2007, 08:37 PM

Actually, I think we've seen what Theo is made of...... he's put together two World Series champions. Quite a resume.Don't give Theo all the credit, He actually thought that Beckett and Lowell were bad trades. That was ownership that made those deals. Theo has made some bone headed moves in his tenure. He also got lucky with a few but I think any GM would of made the same decisions. Not to say that Cashman made the best decisions either.

fotografica

Oct 29, 2007, 08:41 PM

Don't give Theo all the credit, He actually thought that Beckett and Lowell were bad trades. That was ownership that made those deals. Theo has made some bone headed moves in his tenure. He also got lucky with a few but I think any GM would of made the same decisions. Not to say that Cashman made the best decisions either.

Oh please..For cripe's sake just stop will you:rolleyes: So I suppose it was Theo's "luck" that made him trade Nomar for Cabrera in July of 04? And yeah, getting Foulke and Schilling (without either of the two we probably wouldn't have won in 04.Foulke was arguably the MVP of the Series) was just dumb luck?? He pushed for all those moves. Sure he's had some bad ones,but the good ones more than make up for them..You sound like more and more of a tool with every post you make..
You still can't get over the fact that the Yankees are looking up at the Sox...

Naimfan

Oct 29, 2007, 08:43 PM

Don't give Theo all the credit. . .

I'm not. Just pointing out that if you're going to say now we find out what Theo is made of, you have to credit the decisions he's made. Because he is the principal architect of the Sox as they are now constructed.

Besides, with as much money as will likely be involved, it won't be just his call on Rodriguez (if the Sox are even interested).

MacNut

Oct 29, 2007, 08:50 PM

I'm not. Just pointing out that if you're going to say now we find out what Theo is made of, you have to credit the decisions he's made. Because he is the principal architect of the Sox as they are now constructed.

Besides, with as much money as will likely be involved, it won't be just his call on Rodriguez (if the Sox are even interested).I don't see the Sox going after A-Rod, they would spend the money on more young talent.

You could argue that the biggest moves were made when Theo left the team for a few weeks.

fotografica

Oct 29, 2007, 08:55 PM

You could argue that the biggest moves were made when Theo left the team for a few weeks.

One could argue that:
a. You've lost touch with reality
b. You haven't had your medication
c. You still deny that the Yankees are lookin UP at the Red Sox
d. all of the above

MacNut

Oct 29, 2007, 09:03 PM

One could argue that:
a. You've lost touch with reality
b. You haven't had your medication
c. You still deny that the Yankees are lookin UP at the Red Sox
d. all of the aboveAll Im saying and you are getting all offended is that Theo DID NOT sign Beckett or Lowell. In fact he hated the deal. And those 2 players are the only reason you won the World Series.

Do I like the fact that the Red Sox won, no of course I don't, what Yankee fan was cheering last night. Yes the Yankees are looking up at the moment, but that doesn't mean that they are dead in the water as you love to put it. Next year will be very interesting and I expect the Yankees to contend.

fotografica

Oct 29, 2007, 09:06 PM

All Im saying and you are getting all offended is that Theo DID NOT sign Beckett or Lowell. In fact he hated the deal. And those 2 players are the only reason you won the World Series.

Papelbon (who could have been MVP),Ellsbury,Pedroia and Youkilis had nothing to do with the Serie's win?Wow, now that's rich.....

Sobe

Oct 29, 2007, 09:08 PM

You ARE familiar with the term "team?" And with the idea that baseball is a team game?

I did not say that they wouldn't miss his numbers--kindly point to where I wrote that? My point is that the Yankees have the potential to be a better team because there will not be so much attention paid to someone for his salary and production. While it is a cliche, the Yankees target the World Series and are one of the few teams for which that is realistic. But winning a Series depends on a lot more than having numbers. Now relieved from the drama that was Rodriguez, the Yankees can hopefully build better chemistry, spend the money on developing their young players (those already at the major league level and below), and identify and bring in new talent. And it's not like the Yankees haven't let other players go....

They also have an opportunity for some good PR for saying no to Boras. I only hope they stick to their guns and wave goodbye. And I don't mean that to suggest I dislike Rodriguez or that I don't appreciate what he has done on the field.

Better chemistry?

New York just ran the best player in the major leagues out on a rail.

If I'm a kid coming up in the system, I'm thinking, damn look what they did to an MVP, I better not screw up.

The only reason anyone is going to come to NY now is purely for the money.

At least in the past there was the idea that you could sign up and win a world series.

Now that illusion is dead. Poor mike mussina. Could have stayed in Baltimore and won the same number of rings.

I've seen this all before. It's vintage 1980s yankees all over again.

The only thing missing is Ed Whitson and Rick Rhoden.

MacNut

Oct 29, 2007, 09:14 PM

Arod was never happy in NY, he does not have a good playoff record. His contract will suck the team dry. He is not a team player but only cares about himself. He is a young version of Barry Bonds, only cares about the records. Yes the Yankees will miss his numbers but they did it without him before and they can do it again.

The Yankees did not run him out of town he wanted out. If he wanted to stay he would of worked out a deal.

As for the Red Sox if it wasn't for Lowell and Beckett they would not of even made it to the World Series.

Teh Don Ditty

Oct 29, 2007, 09:54 PM

I hope MLB fines Boras and A-Rod for leaking that **** during the WS

I agree. It's really a shame that that announcement was more important that the World Series. (Regardless of who's playing)

The Yankees have offered the Manager job to Girardi.

Boo yea! Told you.

It's now official. The George Steinbrenner era is over. Mattingly was always his guy and didn't get the job.

Thank friggin god it's over. I have been getting so sick and tired of Steinbrenner.

I think its best for the team that George wont be as hands on. I just hope the brothers don't let it all fall apart.

Agreed. George needs to leave completely though.

With that revenue stream,they're going to suddenly become frugal? Maybe they just realized A Rod isn't/never was the answer...

More like how many years for Lowell...

I agree. Expect both the Sox and Yanks to throw plenty of money at him (at the right number of years.... I'm thinking 4)

New York just ran the best player in the major leagues out on a rail.

Are you saying the Yanks ran him out? The media? The fans? All three? Or is it maybe that Arod can't handle the pressure and is only after money and personal stats? My bet is on the last one.

Sobe

Oct 29, 2007, 10:15 PM

Are you saying the Yanks ran him out? The media? The fans? All three? Or is it maybe that Arod can't handle the pressure and is only after money and personal stats? My bet is on the last one.

All of the above.

He single handedly kept the yankees from oblivion in the first half winning game after game with late inning home runs and rbi.

He had 30 HR and 86 RBI in the first half of the season, when the yankees were no better than a .500 team.

They gave up 393 runs and scored 494.

Arod either drove in or scored 165 of those 494 runs, or roughly 33% of the yankees first half runs went through ARod.

Second half was 384 runs against, 504 runs for the yankees. and they went 51-25.

Arod scored or batted in 134 runs out of 504, or roughly 27% of the offense went through Arod in the 2nd half.

I don't care if this guy is Albert Belle with rabies. That's the kind of production you go above and beyond to keep in your lineup.

Teh Don Ditty

Oct 29, 2007, 10:24 PM

MacNut

Oct 29, 2007, 10:29 PM

Sobe

Oct 29, 2007, 10:44 PM

Yes, he did carry the Yankees during the Regular Season. We all know that you have to be able to produce in both RS and Post Season and Arod can only do it in the RS.

If you want him you can have him and his $30 mil/yr salary. Team player my ass. If the Yankees resign him, I ain't watching them until his contract is up.

You mean like Jeter did this post season?

His .136 avg, OBP and .353 OPS sure didn't get the job done in the post season.

You gonna call for his head too?

The truth that no yankee fan wants to hear is that Arod at short with any decent player at third is a better team than one with Jeter at short sporting his .970 fielding percentage and a range factor lower than Miguel Tejada's.

A career fielding percentage of .975 and a career range factor of 4.18 compared to ARod's (at SS) of .977 and .463 then add on Arod vastly superior offensive skill set.

So not only did Arod make more plays, he also got to more.

Man and I don't even like Arod.

But hey enjoy!

Teh Don Ditty

Oct 29, 2007, 10:51 PM

You mean like Jeter did this post season?

His .136 avg, OBP and .353 OPS sure didn't get the job done in the post season.

You gonna call for his head too?

The truth that no yankee fan wants to hear is that Arod at short with any decent player at third is a better team than one with Jeter at short sporting his .970 fielding percentage and a range factor lower than Miguel Tejada's.

A career fielding percentage of .975 and a career range factor of 4.18 compared to ARod's (at SS) of .977 and .463 then add on Arod vastly superior offensive skill set.

So not only did Arod make more plays, he also got to more.

Man and I don't even like Arod.

But hey enjoy!

Why should I call for Jeter's head? I know what he can do and HAS done in the playoffs. 4 rings for the captain, none for the classless money grubber. You can throw stats at me all you want, I'm well aware of them. Is Arod one of the, if not, the most prolific player of all time? Yes. Is he a player that can perform in the post season in NY? No. Is he a money grubbing whore? Yes.

Counterfit

Oct 29, 2007, 10:58 PM

Defensively, I'd take Alex Gonzalez or Michael Young over either of them at SS anyway...
Don't give Theo all the credit, He actually thought that Beckett and Lowell were bad trades.

And that's why he signed Beckett to an extension in the middle of last season?

On to Renteria. Looks like he gets another shot at the AL. I hope for the Tigers' sake he doesn't make 30 errors again.

I also wonder about Wakefield's shoulder. If it's bad enough, anyone think he might retire?

Sobe

Oct 29, 2007, 11:14 PM

Why should I call for Jeter's head? I know what he can do and HAS done in the playoffs. 4 rings for the captain, none for the classless money grubber. You can throw stats at me all you want, I'm well aware of them. Is Arod one of the, if not, the most prolific player of all time? Yes. Is he a player that can perform in the post season in NY? No. Is he a money grubbing whore? Yes.

Heh Jeter is making $21.6 million has never won an MVP and probably never will and Arod is the money grubbing whore. I hope you kept the receipt.

And yeah I know what Jeter HAS done in the playoffs too.

And it wasn't 10 years ago or 5 years ago.

It was this month.

And he sucked.

Worse than ARod.

zioxide

Oct 30, 2007, 12:04 AM

I also wonder about Wakefield's shoulder. If it's bad enough, anyone think he might retire?

He said in the post game he was going to be ready to go next year. I believe the Sox will pick up his $4 million option.

Also, about Curt Schilling. If you would have asked me a month ago I would have said don't re-sign him. But after his performances in the ALDS, ALCS Game 6, and the World Series I say lets do it. On his blog (38pitches.com) he said that he and his wife have decided that he's going to pitch one more year, and he would love to stay in Boston. He probably isn't worth the $13 million he made this year, but I'd say give him the 1 year contract worth about $10 million (maybe with a $1 mil bonus if the Sox win the WS again). It can't hurt.

It's likely that sometime during the year you're going to have a starter (probably Wakefield) go on the DL for some time, so having Schill would be great. That would give us 6 starters. Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Buchholz, Wakefield, and Schilling. They could work something out where Schilling and Wakefield alternated starts or something, or even go with a six man rotation for part of the year. That way it would give you options if Schill or Wake (or any of the other guys) had to go on the DL for a couple of weeks. Since Schill only wants to play for one more year and he said he'd really like to stay in Boston, it would work.

As for Lowell, the Sox should offer him a solid contract of at least 3 years (maybe 4). I don't really see the problem of signing him until he's 36. He has the highest fielding percentage for a 3B in the history of MLB. He's just come off a career year where he completely revamped his strategy at the plate, where he's now hitting to all parts of the field instead of just trying to pull it. So he might not hit .324 again with 120 RBI, but he's still going to have a great year and there's nobody I'd rather have at 3B. Plus he's a great guy and a good leader in the clubhouse.

The other guy who's a free agent is Mike Timlin. I don't know if he's going to keep playing or if he's going to retire, but if he's going to keep playing I see no reason why we shouldn't give him another 1 year 2.8 million deal like he had this year. He proved that he's still more than capable with those two clutch strikeouts in Game 4 last night. If he wants to come back, bring him back because you can never have too much pitching.

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 03:03 AM

Schilling might turn into a pumpkin like Clemans did, or he might pitch a few more good years. it is a gamble that I don't think the Red Sox will risk. I say they let him go.

fotografica

Oct 30, 2007, 08:42 AM

He said in the post game he was going to be ready to go next year. I believe the Sox will pick up his $4 million option.

Also, about Curt Schilling. If you would have asked me a month ago I would have said don't re-sign him. But after his performances in the ALDS, ALCS Game 6, and the World Series I say lets do it. On his blog (38pitches.com) he said that he and his wife have decided that he's going to pitch one more year, and he would love to stay in Boston. He probably isn't worth the $13 million he made this year, but I'd say give him the 1 year contract worth about $10 million (maybe with a $1 mil bonus if the Sox win the WS again). It can't hurt.

It's likely that sometime during the year you're going to have a starter (probably Wakefield) go on the DL for some time, so having Schill would be great. That would give us 6 starters. Beckett, Matsuzaka, Lester, Buchholz, Wakefield, and Schilling. They could work something out where Schilling and Wakefield alternated starts or something, or even go with a six man rotation for part of the year. That way it would give you options if Schill or Wake (or any of the other guys) had to go on the DL for a couple of weeks. Since Schill only wants to play for one more year and he said he'd really like to stay in Boston, it would work.

As for Lowell, the Sox should offer him a solid contract of at least 3 years (maybe 4). I don't really see the problem of signing him until he's 36. He has the highest fielding percentage for a 3B in the history of MLB. He's just come off a career year where he completely revamped his strategy at the plate, where he's now hitting to all parts of the field instead of just trying to pull it. So he might not hit .324 again with 120 RBI, but he's still going to have a great year and there's nobody I'd rather have at 3B. Plus he's a great guy and a good leader in the clubhouse.

The other guy who's a free agent is Mike Timlin. I don't know if he's going to keep playing or if he's going to retire, but if he's going to keep playing I see no reason why we shouldn't give him another 1 year 2.8 million deal like he had this year. He proved that he's still more than capable with those two clutch strikeouts in Game 4 last night. If he wants to come back, bring him back because you can never have too much pitching.

I would be more concerned with A Rod's effect in the clubhouse. Wherever he goes,it seems to be an issue. What happens if he comes here and Pedroia or Youk have better numbers? Prima donnas have a hard time not being the center of attention..Manny is about all this town/team can handle in regard to drama queens..
In regard to his post season,yeah,it does matter..In his last three post seasons,he's gone 7 for 34 with with 1 RBI (that was a solo HR in the Indian's series this year)..I could care less what he does from April thru the end of September. And not for nothing,if he couldn't handle the media attention in NY,it's not going to be any better here..
Theo on Lowell after game 2:
“(Re-signing Lowell is) a priority for the offseason, and I’m sure we’ll be able to get something done,” Epstein said of his pending free agent. “We have a desire to keep him here a long time. He’s a core member of the organization. It’s just not the time to talk about that.”---
We'll see if anything comes of that.The market for corner infielders is slim to none..
Clement's money ($17 mil) comes off the books.My impression with Tavarez is that much of the value of picking up his option was to then trade him (like Sheffield last year) rather than keeping him around here.Sure its valuable to have a swing man (moreso in the regular season obviously, hence him being dropped from the rosters now) but the sense I've gotten is that esp to a NL team, a $4M potential starter would be a valuable trading chip. The example everyones pointing to now being Joel Pineiro's new contract. Obviously we're going to want to get a little more back this time!
If Schilling wants a 1 year deal at his present salary, re-signing him should be a no-brainer. This team is going to need at least 6 starters next season. As someone else said, re-signing Schilling minimizes the reliance on Tavarez.
Wakefield will do whatever is asked of him,just like he's done his whole career. Even it means going to the bullpen. For $4 mil,if his health is ok,that's a deal.

zioxide

Oct 30, 2007, 09:27 AM

I would be more concerned with A Rod's effect in the clubhouse. Wherever he goes,it seems to be an issue. What happens if he comes here and Pedroia or Youk have better numbers? Prima donnas have a hard time not being the center of attention..Manny is about all this town/team can handle in regard to drama queens..
In regard to his post season,yeah,it does matter..In his last three post seasons,he's gone 7 for 34 with with 1 RBI (that was a solo HR in the Indian's series this year)..I could care less what he does from April thru the end of September. And not for nothing,if he couldn't handle the media attention in NY,it's not going to be any better here..
Theo on Lowell after game 2:
“(Re-signing Lowell is) a priority for the offseason, and I’m sure we’ll be able to get something done,” Epstein said of his pending free agent. “We have a desire to keep him here a long time. He’s a core member of the organization. It’s just not the time to talk about that.”---
We'll see if anything comes of that.The market for corner infielders is slim to none..
Clement's money ($17 mil) comes off the books.My impression with Tavarez is that much of the value of picking up his option was to then trade him (like Sheffield last year) rather than keeping him around here.Sure its valuable to have a swing man (moreso in the regular season obviously, hence him being dropped from the rosters now) but the sense I've gotten is that esp to a NL team, a $4M potential starter would be a valuable trading chip. The example everyones pointing to now being Joel Pineiro's new contract. Obviously we're going to want to get a little more back this time!
If Schilling wants a 1 year deal at his present salary, re-signing him should be a no-brainer. This team is going to need at least 6 starters next season. As someone else said, re-signing Schilling minimizes the reliance on Tavarez.
Wakefield will do whatever is asked of him,just like he's done his whole career. Even it means going to the bullpen. For $4 mil,if his health is ok,that's a deal.

Yeah Clement will be gone, and so will Gagne's $6 million

Yeah if we do re-sign Schill, Wake would probably go to the bullpen for at least part of the year. But having six decent starters would be great. Plus having the veteran presence of Schill and Wake in the clubhouse when you have young pitchers like Lester, Buchholz, Paps, and MDC would be great.

As for the other positions, I'm not sure what's going to happen with Hinske or Kielty, and Coco will probably be traded for a minor league prospect or two.

edit: ooh, just read this on SoSH:

It's not any different than it was at the beginning of the year. This is my first choice, I want a one year deal and it will be a deal that works for the team and myself. If it's other than Boston then the dollars will be a significant factor, along with the teams ability to contend, or field an incredibly talented blend of young players that are on the cusp of being very good. I would like to think a serious contender would be interested if Boston doesn't work out, but if for some reason that doesn't happen then I'd really like to be a part of a talented group of young up and coming pitchers that want to win.

So yeah, I think Schill will be back for one more season and then will retire as a member of the Sox.

zioxide

Oct 30, 2007, 11:09 AM

NEW YORK -- Joe Girardi has agreed to a three-year contract to manage the New York Yankees.

The agreement to take over as Joe Torre's replacement is worth an average salary of at least $2 million annually, a baseball official said Tuesday, speaking on condition of anonymity because the team had not yet announced the deal.

Girardi was the 2006 NL Manager of the Year with Florida, plus he has a pinstriped pedigree. The hard-nosed catcher played on three Yankees teams that won the World Series, served as their bench coach and was a TV announcer this year.

"Joe Girardi is a good man," Torre said Monday on The Late Show with David Letterman. "He's got a feel for this organization."

Once he was informed Monday that the Yankees had chosen Girardi, Don Mattingly told the team he had no interest in returning next year as bench coach or in any other coaching position.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10441056

IJ Reilly

Oct 30, 2007, 11:15 AM

Meanwhile...

Torre is talking to Dodgers

Sources say the team is in negotiations to bring the former Yankees manager to L.A. He says, 'There's nothing to any of it so far.'

October 30, 2007

The Dodgers are in negotiations with former Yankees manager Joe Torre to become their next manager, two major league baseball officials said Monday.

The hiring of Torre probably would result in the firing of Grady Little, contradicting Dodgers owner Frank McCourt's end-of-the-season declaration that Little would be back in the spring.

A third major league official said that a deal between Torre and the Dodgers wasn't imminent, something Torre himself seemed to hint at when appearing on CBS' "Late Show With David Letterman."

"There's nothing to any of it so far," Torre said.

Torre's agent, Maury Gostfrand, did not return messages left on his office and cell phones.

The Dodgers also remained silent on the status of their managerial position, as General Manager Ned Colletti didn't return phone calls for a fifth day in a row. McCourt was also unavailable.

Little could also not be reached.

Little is under contract for next season, but his option for 2009 hasn't been picked up. The team was 88-74 and won the National League wild card in his first season with the club in 2006.

But the Dodgers were 82-80 last season and finished fourth in the NL West in what Little said was the toughest year of his career because of tensions between the team's veteran and young players.

"What's been the most disappointing to me is that so many people, when things are going good, they're fine," Little said. "But then the very minute things turn sour, the real person comes out. That's what disappointed me the most."

McCourt stood behind Little and Colletti on the last day of the season, saying in a news conference that both would be back in 2008.

Asked why, McCourt pointed to what he called "core values" that he wanted to be the franchise's foundation -- he listed hard work, trust, integrity, respect, unselfishness and teamwork.

"I think they share the values I talked about repeatedly," McCourt said of Little and Colletti. "When we do have an opportunity to talk -- and we do talk as a group -- and we talk about the things I'm saying, I don't get a blank look. These gentlemen believe in what I've just articulated. At the end of the day, it takes people who are committed to one goal, which is winning. I think they share the same values and the same goal."

Torre and the Yankees parted ways Oct. 18 after Torre turned down an incentive-laden one-year, $5-million offer to return for his 13th season. The Yankees won four World Series titles and made the playoffs all 12 years he was the manager. He made $7.5 million last season.

The Yankees offered their managerial job on Monday to Joe Girardi, who reportedly had been approached by the Dodgers about a position with the club. The Dodgers were also quiet last week when asked about the reports linking them to Girardi.

A source told The Times that Girardi informed the Yankees that he had an offer for a current or future managing job with another team.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-joetorre30oct30,1,3045713.story

iKwick7

Oct 30, 2007, 11:19 AM

What about Joe Torre going to the Dodgers? And the rumors of Don Mattingly going with him?

Seriously, I would be very worried if that were to happen. I'm worried about Posada, Petitte, and Mariano as it is right now. If Torre AND Mattingly went to the Dodgers, I would absolutely be rooting for them.

As for Shilling going back to the Red Sox, I really don't see it happening. He had a great post season, but is it worth it? I don't think so.

Redline13

Oct 30, 2007, 11:46 AM

The Yankees will be fine. Just like the Red Sox they have enough money to spend to make sure they will always be competitive.

IJ Reilly

Oct 30, 2007, 11:51 AM

Ah, ha. The only significance of Torre going to the Dodgers is how it might affect the Yankees.

Naturally. :rolleyes:

Naimfan

Oct 30, 2007, 11:52 AM

New York just ran the best player in the major leagues out on a rail.

Wrong. You're obviously confusing the Yankees with Rodriguez's agent, whose greed is what drove Rodriguez out of NY.

Meanwhile: Just heard Torre WILL be managing the Dodgers next season....

iKwick7

Oct 30, 2007, 12:03 PM

Ah, ha. The only significance of Torre going to the Dodgers is how it might affect the Yankees.

Naturally. :rolleyes:

Considering I'm a Yankees fan, yes, that is the only significance to me.

Great for the Dodgers, in my opinion, sucks for the Yankees.

:rolleyes:

xsedrinam

Oct 30, 2007, 12:09 PM

Wrong. You're obviously confusing the Yankees with Rodriguez's agent, whose greed is what drove Rodriguez out of NY.

Meanwhile: Just heard Torre WILL be managing the Dodgers next season....
If it holds true, congrats to L.A. 'cause I think Torre's a good manager. On the other, I've not known greed to drive anyone out of NY. A better analogy would be that "like charges repel each other".

Mike Teezie

Oct 30, 2007, 12:27 PM

If Torre and Mattingly go to the Dodgers, I'll be rooting for them next year.

I don't get most Yankees fans. ARod single handedly drags the entire team into the playoffs, and still gets no respect. ANd because he didn't single handedly win every game in the playoffs, he sucks. Take ARod out of that lineup. Do the Yankees even make the playoffs? Of course not.

If he didn't hit a home run every at bat, he got booed. He wasn't a "true Yankee" like Jeter. ARod only moved to 3rd so the Captain wouldn't get his feelings hurt, which I've always felt was ridiculous.

Now, his greed drove him out. What did Clemens make last year, and what did he do again? For that matter, what did Jeter make, and what did he do?

Look at Torre. What the hell do you have to do in New York to get a pass? Besides be named Derek Jeter, of course.

IJ Reilly

Oct 30, 2007, 12:29 PM

Considering I'm a Yankees fan, yes, that is the only significance to me.

Believe it or not, the game of baseball is played west of the Hudson River.

If it holds true, congrats to L.A. 'cause I think Torre's a good manager. On the other, I've not known greed to drive anyone out of NY. A better analogy would be that "like charges repel each other".

Assuming this does come to pass, I think aloofman will have put it about right when he said that Torre needed more money to put up with the grief of managing in New York. For sure, he's not going to get $7 million to manage in LA.

If I'm Joe Torre, I'm also thinking about the Dodgers throwing Grady Little overboard after expressing confidence in him.

furcalchick

Oct 30, 2007, 01:06 PM

the player choice award winners were announced throughout the past week, and you can watch the announcements here (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/awards/pa).

for those of you who don't want to sit through the interviews, here are the winners.

Outstanding Pitcher

NL: Jake Peavy
AL: C.C. Sabathia

Outstanding Player

NL: Prince Fielder
AL: Alex Rodriguez

Outstanding Rookie

NL: Ryan Braun
AL: Dustin Pedroia

Comeback Player of the year

NL: Dmitri Young
AL: Carlos Pena

Player of the Year: Alex Rodriguez
Man of the Year: Torii Hunter

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 01:17 PM

Don Mattingly being my favorite player of all time, if he went to the Dodgers I would follow the team a lot closer.

aloofman

Oct 30, 2007, 01:48 PM

If I'm Joe Torre, I'm also thinking about the Dodgers throwing Grady Little overboard after expressing confidence in him.

McCourt doesn't get many points for loyalty, does he? The first red flag for me was when he fired DePodesta and Tracy separately in the same offseason, leaving the team rudderless during the free agent signing period. At the very least, McCourt needs to learn what PR is.

I wonder if this is a response to the local media criticism that the team has been getting since September. I also wonder if Torre would be the "star" signing that some have clamored for, in lieu of signing Rodriguez or Jones or whomever. Not that we need either of those players for the price they'll want. (I believe Andruw Jones is a Boras client too.)

Only in the last 24 hours have I ever pondered the possibility of Joe Torre or Don Mattingly wearing a Dodger uniform. If it happens, that will take some getting used to.

zioxide

Oct 30, 2007, 01:50 PM

AL: C.C. Sabathia

Josh Beckett > C.C.

AL: Dustin Pedroia

win.

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 01:52 PM

Only in the last 24 hours have I ever pondered the possibility of Joe Torre or Don Mattingly wearing a Dodger uniform. If it happens, that will take some getting used to.Keep in mind that the Dodgers did draft Mattingly's son in 2006.

iKwick7

Oct 30, 2007, 02:05 PM

Believe it or not, the game of baseball is played west of the Hudson River.

Really? I had no clue!

I love how if a Yanks fan talks about the Yankees, they get blasted for it and get labeled. You know what? If I was born in Philadelphia and grew up there, I'd probably be a Phillies fan and follow everything they do. Same goes for any other town.

People need to stop hating Yankees fans. It's not my fault I grew up here and was raised following this team- Don Mattingly, in particular. Love the guy. Grew up watching him play.

Shoot me.

Don Mattingly being my favorite player of all time, if he went to the Dodgers I would follow the team a lot closer.

Same here. I would love to see the Dodgers get somewhere next year- sure would make those suits in NY look like the donkeys that they are.

aloofman

Oct 30, 2007, 02:12 PM

People need to stop hating Yankees fans.

I don't hate Yankees fans. I hate when some of them act like every other team's success is a result of luck and only the Yankees' achievements are legitimate. That's not being a good fan, it's being a poor sport.

xsedrinam

Oct 30, 2007, 02:13 PM

I don't hate Yankees fans. I hate when some of them act like every other team's success is a result of luck and only the Yankees' achievements are legitimate. That's not being a good fan, it's being a poor sport.
That pretty much sums up the scenario and my "queja". Thanks.

IJ Reilly

Oct 30, 2007, 02:20 PM

Really? I had no clue!

I love how if a Yanks fan talks about the Yankees, they get blasted for it and get labeled. You know what? If I was born in Philadelphia and grew up there, I'd probably be a Phillies fan and follow everything they do. Same goes for any other town.

People need to stop hating Yankees fans. It's not my fault I grew up here and was raised following this team- Don Mattingly, in particular. Love the guy. Grew up watching him play.

Shoot me.

Yankee fans can talk about their team as much as they like. What gripes me, and other baseball fans, is when they act like nothing else in baseball really matters. I grew up in New Jersey, so I know the drill. It's one of the constants in the game. This attitude hasn't really changed much from the early '60s at least when all those smug, overbearing Yankee fans made a Mets fan out of me.

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 02:34 PM

I grew up in the 80's being a Yankee fan back when they sucked. I grew up watching Don Mattingly, maybe the only reason I watched the Yankees. When the Yankees started to get good in the mid 90's I was thrilled. Like it or not but when the Yankees won 3 in a row they were the only thing in town. And like it or not but the Yankees have had the most success then any other team in existence, if that isn't a reason for a Yankee fan to be cocky about their team then what is. Yankee fans are a different breed of fan, But its not like the team has always sucked and the fans are just cocky for the sake of it. They expect to win all the time, they won't always but that is no reason for other fans to get pissed off. It is what it is and it won't change.

Naimfan

Oct 30, 2007, 02:35 PM

I don't hate Yankees fans. I hate when some of them act like every other team's success is a result of luck and only the Yankees' achievements are legitimate. That's not being a good fan, it's being a poor sport.

Then please specify who you ARE referring to, and stop including those Yankee fans who actually understand all that.

Otherwise you're just being a poor sport. ;)

IJ Reilly

Oct 30, 2007, 02:40 PM

McCourt doesn't get many points for loyalty, does he? The first red flag for me was when he fired DePodesta and Tracy separately in the same offseason, leaving the team rudderless during the free agent signing period. At the very least, McCourt needs to learn what PR is.

I wonder if this is a response to the local media criticism that the team has been getting since September. I also wonder if Torre would be the "star" signing that some have clamored for, in lieu of signing Rodriguez or Jones or whomever. Not that we need either of those players for the price they'll want. (I believe Andruw Jones is a Boras client too.)

Only in the last 24 hours have I ever pondered the possibility of Joe Torre or Don Mattingly wearing a Dodger uniform. If it happens, that will take some getting used to.

Not just media criticism, but fan criticism. I don't think most fans see Grady Little as the problem, but the front office seems to need someone to blame and it might has well be him. Clearly, they also need to make some dramatic changes. If they can't sign the perfect big-ticket free agent, at least they can hire a rock star manager. I have a feeling that this may be the thinking, in part.

The other issue is the players themselves. That round of public recriminations between Kent and some of the young players at the end of the season is an event which should never have happened. It may be seen to have been Little's fault, and it might have been in part. (Hard to imagine anything like this happening under Tommy Lasorda's watch.) It was already going to be tough for Little to put the Humpty-Dumpty Dodgers back together again. Now, with all the speculation over his replacement (none of which has been denied by the front office), if he does stay, his hand has been considerably weakened. In sum, if the Dodger don't sign Torre now, the team's troubles are only compounded. Little's replacement with Torre is quickly becoming a fait accompli. That's no way to run a baseball team.

zioxide

Oct 30, 2007, 02:41 PM

Then please specify who you ARE referring to, and stop including those Yankee fans who actually understand all that.

Otherwise you're just being a poor sport. ;)

We all know who he's talking about on here. I don't think we need to name any names. :p

Naimfan

Oct 30, 2007, 02:44 PM

We all know who he's talking about on here. I don't think we need to name any names. :p

I have no idea who he's talking about. So perhaps he SHOULD name names.

Sheesh, can't even address someone directly anymore?

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 02:44 PM

We all know who he's talking about on here. I don't think we need to name any names. :pFor the record, I sat through the horrible years of the Yankees. Then the great years. I would rather the great years continue and not have a 15 year drought again.

IJ Reilly

Oct 30, 2007, 02:54 PM

It is what it is and it won't change.

No kidding. As I said, this attitude been a constant for as long as I've been a baseball fan, which is over 40 years now, and I know it goes back even further. So for as long as Yankee fans continue to advertise themselves as being something special, then they should expect to get static about that attitude from the rest of baseball fandom. That is what that is, and it won't change either. ;)

iKwick7

Oct 30, 2007, 02:55 PM

Yankee fans can talk about their team as much as they like. What gripes me, and other baseball fans, is when they act like nothing else in baseball really matters. I grew up in New Jersey, so I know the drill. It's one of the constants in the game. This attitude hasn't really changed much from the early '60s at least when all those smug, overbearing Yankee fans made a Mets fan out of me.

Fair enough. But then don't drop comments about "baseball being played to the west of the Hudson River" when all someone says is that it looks like the Doggers picked up Torre and possibly Mattingly.

edit: man I suck at typing sometimes

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 02:58 PM

No kidding. As I said, this attitude been a constant for as long as I've been a baseball fan, which is over 40 years now, and I know it goes back even further. So for as long as Yankee fans continue to advertise themselves as being something special, then they should expect to get static about that attitude from the rest of baseball fandom. That is what that is, and it won't change either. ;)But you also can't argue the history the Yankees have had and the impact they have made on the game the past 100 years. Like it or not but they are bigger then baseball in many ways.

Redline13

Oct 30, 2007, 03:00 PM

I don't hate Yankees fans. I hate when some of them act like every other team's success is a result of luck and only the Yankees' achievements are legitimate. That's not being a good fan, it's being a poor sport.

The NYY fans with the attitude you dislike are a ridiculously small minority. All fan bases have them.

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 03:03 PM

The NYY fans with the attitude you dislike are a ridiculously small minority. All fan bases have them.I think its 50/50 with Yankee fans. Im sure the numbers are similar for Red Sox fans, and all fans in general.

Redline13

Oct 30, 2007, 03:04 PM

... made a Mets fan out of me.

Please let me offer my condolences. ;)

zioxide

Oct 30, 2007, 03:14 PM

For the record, I sat through the horrible years of the Yankees. Then the great years. I would rather the great years continue and not have a 15 year drought again.

That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about you trying to discredit the Red Sox wins. One week you were saying the Rockies were awesome and they were going to win, and the next week "the Rockies suck and the Red Sox didn't really have to beat anyone."

If the Rockies (or if the Yankees had made it) and won, I would have congratulated them, not tried to discredit their win.

Also, as far as waiting 15 years for a championship, be thankful you're not a Cubs fan.

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 03:29 PM

That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about you trying to discredit the Red Sox wins. One week you were saying the Rockies were awesome and they were going to win, and the next week "the Rockies suck and the Red Sox didn't really have to beat anyone."

If the Rockies (or if the Yankees had made it) and won, I would have congratulated them, not tried to discredit their win.

Also, as far as waiting 15 years for a championship, be thankful you're not a Cubs fan.I do think the Red Sox got lucky with good pitching at the right time and other teams collapsing at the right time. Eventually I will congratulate the Sox, Im just not ready to do it yet.

As for the Cubs, I think they really are cursed.

xsedrinam

Oct 30, 2007, 03:36 PM

The NYY fans with the attitude you dislike are a ridiculously small minority. All fan bases have them.
Yes they do. That doesn't make it either right or excusable.

Regionalism in baseball fans is a funny thing. Well, sometimes it's not all that funny. Those of you who grew up in Jersey or NY City, L.A., the Bay Area, Cincinnati, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Houston, Baltimore, etc., naturally have a regional fan-slant on the game, just as I would having grown up in the St. Louis area and a Cardinals fan.

To me, the issue becomes unpleasant among baseball aficionados when the dialogue, mutual respect and love of the game get colored and tainted by innuendo or just plain blatant aires of elitist superiority which are, without humility or recognition of any blind spot, projected upon informed baseball fans in this forum. This erodes the will of that class of fan to participate or return since those who continue to bash demonstrate neither sensitivity nor intent to accommodate change in their demeanor.

I'm genuinely happy for Boston's second World Series Championship in 4 years, and as a die-hard STL fan, I can appreciate and join in the celebration of achievement and excellence of both team and fans who have been through a huge drought of success. Why others either will not or cannot, only they can explain. But I've yet to read any intelligent and open explanation.

iKwick7

Oct 30, 2007, 03:38 PM

I think its 50/50 with Yankee fans. Im sure the numbers are similar for Red Sox fans, and all fans in general.

i think the problem is that a lot of these "fans" arent really fans- just people that like the yankees because they win. These arent real fans have only been around since the late 90's. I hate these people as well.

I guess thats a problem with big city teams. Some people just like a team because everyone around them does.

zioxide

Oct 30, 2007, 03:40 PM

IJ Reilly

Oct 30, 2007, 03:43 PM

Please let me offer my condolences. ;)

And this was in the mid-60s. Back in those days you really had to love baseball to love the Mets. They turned incompetence into an art form!

Also, as far as waiting 15 years for a championship, be thankful you're not a Cubs fan.

Or a Dodger fan. It'll be 20 years of drought for us, unless something big happens next season.

Tommy Lasorda was quoted in the paper the other day (on the occasion of his 80th birthday) saying that he told the Big Dodger in the Sky that he was planning on living long enough to see another Dodger world championship. Long life to you Tommy, but I hope you don't have to make it to 100.

IJ Reilly

Oct 30, 2007, 03:47 PM

To me, the issue becomes unpleasant among baseball aficionados when the dialogue, mutual respect and love of the game get colored and tainted by innuendo or just plain blatant aires of elitist superiority which are, without humility or recognition of any blind spot, projected upon informed baseball fans in this forum. This erodes the will of that class of fan to participate or return since those who continue to bash demonstrate neither sensitivity nor intent to accommodate change in their demeanor.

That's perfect. Thank you.

Naimfan

Oct 30, 2007, 03:47 PM

I've yet to read any intelligent and open explanation.

I hope you're not holding your breath! :D

IJ Reilly

Oct 30, 2007, 03:52 PM

Like it or not but they are bigger then baseball in many ways.

And you still wonder why Yankee fans get such a bad time?

aloofman

Oct 30, 2007, 03:59 PM

We all know who he's talking about on here. I don't think we need to name any names. :p

I'm not trying to start flame wars here. I'd rather it stay civilized.

fotografica

Oct 30, 2007, 04:27 PM

i think the problem is that a lot of these "fans" arent really fans- just people that like the yankees because they win. These arent real fans have only been around since the late 90's. I hate these people as well.

I guess thats a problem with big city teams. Some people just like a team because everyone around them does.

You mean the "pink hat people"?We have those here in Boston. They got on board after 04.The morning after the Sox won,they were out buying up all kinds of gear..Funny thing is,none of them bothered to tune in when the Sox were down 0-3 to the Yankees.They jumped on board going into game 7 and rode it to the Series.They're not fans by any stretch.They think a "hit and run" is a car accident...

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 04:29 PM

They're not fans by any stretch.They think a "hit and run" is a car accident...Well it turned out that way for the Indians.:p
I was just reading this on Sportsline:

You know what's going to be awesome and unite RSN and Yankees fans for one day next year? The All-star game. A-Rod will be coming back to NY to play in the game, and we can all unite in booing his ass out of New York.

hahahaI was just thinking this, Would A-Rod skip the all star game next year.

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 07:02 PM

Here is the list so far of free agents.
SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/10/29/bc.bbo.free.agent.list.ap/index.html)

zioxide

Oct 30, 2007, 07:13 PM

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2007/10/30/1193778159_9243.jpg

oh, and 111 days until pitchers and catchers report

IJ Reilly

Oct 30, 2007, 07:45 PM

Here is the list so far of free agents.
SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/10/29/bc.bbo.free.agent.list.ap/index.html)

Any interest in Kerry Wood?

xsedrinam

Oct 30, 2007, 08:26 PM

With Eckstein now a FA, and though STL has in house bargaining preferences 'til Nov. 12 or somewhere in there, I've read some rumors where they may look elsewhere for a S.S., like to a kid from Cuba now in the D.R., Alexei Ramírez who's supposed to be all that. Just rumor though.

Their new management seems to be beating the drum to revert emphasis to stocking up their farm club system, but this move, the way it's done in this day and age, may well set them back to square one in being competitive. All La Russa's staff returns. Pitching-wise, that doesn't excite me.

fotografica

Oct 30, 2007, 08:30 PM

Add Schilling,Kielty,Hinske and Clement to that list..

zioxide

Oct 30, 2007, 08:41 PM

Grady Little has resigned.

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 08:43 PM

Grady Little has resigned.Dodgers' Little says 'personal' reasons prompt resignation All the talk was about Joe Torre managing the Los Angeles Dodgers. Only problem was Grady Little was still the manager.

That's not a problem anymore. Little announced on Tuesday night that he was resigning as manager.

During a conference call, Little responded to reports of ill will between himself and Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti.

"Ned and I have been in constant communication since the end of the season and decided mutually that this was the best move for the Dodgers organization to take," Little said.

Colletti said, "I wanted Grady Little back. I encouraged him a handful of times to think it through,"

The general manager said that he knew resignation was on Little's mind at the end of the season.

When asked if rumors of Torre taking over had an influence on his decision, Little replied, "None whatsoever."

"I have my personal reasons," he said.

He added: "It's nothing in particular. It's just a decision we've come to. This is all personal. There's a lot of belief I've been dealt an injustice here. That couldn't be further from the truth. My plans? To play with my grandkids."

Little had one year remaining on his contract with a club option for a second year.

iKwick7

Oct 30, 2007, 09:38 PM

You mean the "pink hat people"?We have those here in Boston. They got on board after 04.The morning after the Sox won,they were out buying up all kinds of gear..Funny thing is,none of them bothered to tune in when the Sox were down 0-3 to the Yankees.They jumped on board going into game 7 and rode it to the Series.They're not fans by any stretch.They think a "hit and run" is a car accident...

O how I hate pink hat people.

Here is the list so far of free agents.
SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/10/29/bc.bbo.free.agent.list.ap/index.html)

O my is that a slim list.

MacNut

Oct 30, 2007, 10:08 PM

O my is that a slim list.Keep in mind that this is the first day to declare for free agency, the list will grow.

IJ Reilly

Oct 31, 2007, 11:29 AM

Grady Little has resigned.

The deal with Torre is all but done. Presumably Mattingly will be coming too, along with other coaching staff, so far unnamed. The informed speculation is that one of Torre's conditions was that the Dodgers sign a power-hitter, which of course raises the Rodriguez question. For his part, Scott Boras is mum on the subject, and A-Rod only says that he liked playing for Joe Torre. The plot thickens...

MacNut

Oct 31, 2007, 11:47 AM

How much of a budget do the Dodgers have. Will they be willing to spend 300 million for A-Rod.

aloofman

Oct 31, 2007, 11:54 AM

How much of a budget do the Dodgers have. Will they be willing to spend 300 million for A-Rod.

Nobody really knows. Frank McCourt's finances have been kind of murky since before he bought the team. When he became the owner it sort of looked like he was borrowing money left and right. But since then he has spent money on the stadium and big contracts, plus attendance is up.

Personally, I think the Angels or Cubs are the most likely destinations for Rodriguez.

IJ Reilly

Oct 31, 2007, 11:59 AM

How much of a budget do the Dodgers have. Will they be willing to spend 300 million for A-Rod.

That's something we don't know. The team payroll has been rising steadily these last few years (along with ticket prices) and I suspect that we haven't reached the limits on either yet. They will also be spending something like $40 million on stadium renovations this winter and need to sign at least one top starter, perhaps two if Schmidt doesn't come back in good health. The bench also needs some work. It looks like the team will lose both its right and left-hand pitch hitters.

EDIT: echo, echo, echo.... ;)

Sobe

Oct 31, 2007, 12:00 PM

The Dodgers have money to burn if they want to. The question is do they want to.

I think the unspoken biggest factor is position.

The Angeles have O. Cabrera, the Dodgers have R. Furcal.

After moving to 3b for Jeter, I'd be surprised if Arod didn't want to move back to short stop to show the world that he actually is a fantastic short stop who can also hit like Ted Williams.

Assuming that's true, that he wants to play short (haven't seen anything stating this for a fact yet), Chicago makes the most sense.

Ryan Theriot?
Mike Fontenot?
Mark DeRosa?
Ronny Cedeno?

Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh.

Yeah no problem sticking Arod at short @ Wrigley.

And they have Aramis at 3b anyway.

Keep DeRosa for 2B, keep Theriot for util, and deal fontenot/cedeno/murton for a better OF or another arm.

IJ Reilly

Oct 31, 2007, 12:13 PM

The Dodgers have money to burn if they want to. The question is do they want to.

The McCourt's dollar resources are far from clear. Still, you are right to bring up the position issue.

Another issue is the park. Dodger Stadium is quite pitcher-friendly. Rodriquez is probably not going to be able to hit 50+ home runs in LA, a feat he's more likely to repeat in Chicago, and of course being in the batting order with Soriano has to be appealing. Still, we are talking about the Cubs, a team with a grand tradition of losing and an uncertain future in terms of ownership. Can the Cubs afford to add another $300 million to the liability side of their ledger, above and beyond their commitment to Soriano?

Sobe

Oct 31, 2007, 12:34 PM

The McCourt's dollar resources are far from clear. Still, you are right to bring up the position issue.

Another issue is the park. Dodger Stadium is quite pitcher-friendly. Rodriquez is probably not going to be able to hit 50+ home runs in LA, a feat he's more likely to repeat in Chicago, and of course being in the batting order with Soriano has to be appealing. Still, we are talking about the Cubs, a team with a grand tradition of losing and an uncertain future in terms of ownership. Can the Cubs afford to add another $300 million to the liability side of their ledger, above and beyond their commitment to Soriano?

If Cuban buys the team, absolutely =D

fotografica

Oct 31, 2007, 12:34 PM

Good luck getting any financial information out of McCourt.When he was buying up the South Boston waterfront,trying to get info out of him was like asking the Vatican about the abuse scandal. He was always "My way or the highway" when it came to his business dealings..
Seems like the Dodgers are doing well financially tho:

Dodgers are valued at $632 million

That's the estimate by Forbes in the magazine's annual examination of how much baseball franchises are worth. The valuation is a huge jump from the $482 million last year - and it's based on a bunch of factors, including the Socal market, the stadium and the team's brand management. The Forbes report also shows that the Dodgers operating income this year will be $28 million, compared with $13 million in 2006 (and operating losses for years before that). Revenues are up (higher ticket prices have helped) and player expenses are under control. In other words, Frank McCourt is making a business out of the Dodgers - and for all the gripes about Jaime's management style, the long concession lines, the lousy parking system, etc., the team is drawing better than ever. Go figure. Forbes ranks the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim 13th, with a valuation of $431 million. That's almost double the value when Arte Moreno bought the team in 2003. The Angels will show an operating income this year of $12 million. Rank, team and valuation on jump.

IJ Reilly

Oct 31, 2007, 01:09 PM

Sobe

Oct 31, 2007, 01:12 PM

They're just lining up their ducks...

They can't officially negotiate with Arod until Nov 13 anyway, so it makes sense to focus on the managerial side and get that nailed down now.

I would expect to see Torre's signing announced by the end of the week.

IJ Reilly

Oct 31, 2007, 01:22 PM

According to the local press, the Torre deal should be finalized soon, possibly today. It appears the only reason it hasn't been announced yet is that some issues remain regarding coaching personnel. The terms we're hearing are $14.5 million for three years.

fotografica

Oct 31, 2007, 01:28 PM

Market value doesn't mean much unless you sell or borrow against it. McCourt's purchase of the Dodgers was heavily leveraged. Some of that debt is now retired but we simply don't know how committed McCourt is to winning -- the Dodger draw big crowds win or lose.

True.Unless he's trying to make the team as profitable as possible to get a new stadium?At one time,there was talk of McCourt getting an NFL franchise to the LA market..Is this still being discussed?

aloofman

Oct 31, 2007, 01:38 PM

True.Unless he's trying to make the team as profitable as possible to get a new stadium?At one time,there was talk of McCourt getting an NFL franchise to the LA market..Is this still being discussed?

There was speculation that McCourt might sell the stadium and land to build a new one elsewhere, since the downtown hilltop location is pretty desirable. But since then he's invested quite a bit in stadium improvements, which would seem to indicate that he doesn't plan to sell it, at least not to someone who would tear it down.

The NFL has no future here, despite the occasional rumors. There's no sign at all that there will be a team here within the next four years, maybe longer.

fotografica

Oct 31, 2007, 02:24 PM

There was speculation that McCourt might sell the stadium and land to build a new one elsewhere, since the downtown hilltop location is pretty desirable. But since then he's invested quite a bit in stadium improvements, which would seem to indicate that he doesn't plan to sell it, at least not to someone who would tear it down.

The NFL has no future here, despite the occasional rumors. There's no sign at all that there will be a team here within the next four years, maybe longer.

He was always successful here,no matter what the venture..Sounds like he's continuing out West:

Dodgers owner Frank McCourt lives in Jack Benny's old house and his neighbor is Hugh Hefner. His sons and his wife, Jamie, are top executives with the team. He has moved his real estate development business here in Los Angeles from Boston and attendance at Dodger Stadium is pushing 4 million. His farm system might be the best in baseball.
Southern California has been very good to McCourt, who lost his bid to buy the Red Sox to John Henry's group even though he owned prime real estate on the Boston waterfront for a possible new ballpark
McCourt already has poured $60 million into improving Dodger Stadium, which will become the third-oldest park in the major leagues (after Fenway Park and Wrigley Field) when the new Yankee Stadium opens in 2009. By next offseason, that number will rise to $125 million..
Like Henry and Co. did with Fenway Park, McCourt made the decision that refurbishing Dodger Stadium was a better option than building a new ballpark. It will celebrate its 50th anniversary in 2012 and McCourt has publicly made a 25-year commitment to the park. He has replaced all 50,000 seats, replicating the stadium's original seatbacks. New field seats were added, drainage has been improved, and next offseason the concourses will be widened and the bathrooms and concession areas will get an upgrade.

The Dodgers' spring training headquarters will move to a state-of-the-art facility in Phoenix in 2009.
-------
Does Colletti stay on once the Torre deal is finalized?

Counterfit

Oct 31, 2007, 03:00 PM

I was just reading this on Sportsline:

You know what's going to be awesome and unite RSN and Yankees fans for one day next year? The All-star game. A-Rod will be coming back to NY to play in the game, and we can all unite in booing his ass out of New York.

hahaha

I will gladly join in the booing. :D I hope to get to a game at Yankee Stadium some time next year, just because it's Yankee Stadium.
You mean the "pink hat people"?We have those here in Boston. They got on board after 04.The morning after the Sox won,they were out buying up all kinds of gear..Funny thing is,none of them bothered to tune in when the Sox were down 0-3 to the Yankees.They jumped on board going into game 7 and rode it to the Series.They're not fans by any stretch.They think a "hit and run" is a car accident...

One good thing about the pink hats.

Most of them are hot. :D
Add Schilling,Kielty,Hinske and Clement to that list..
Kerry Wood and Matt Clement as FA's. Think the Cubs want them back? :rolleyes: I wouldn't exactly be surprised if Clement has a good 2008, depending how far along he is in rehab. Wasn't there a chance he could have pitched for the Sox in September?
*slight aside, does Clement get a ring?

who can also hit like Ted Williams.
A) Williams was a lefty
2) NO ONE can hit like Ted Williams until they break .400. Not Bonds, not Manny, not Ortiz, not A-Rod, not Nomar (does anyone even think of him that way anymore?), NOBODY.

Sobe

Oct 31, 2007, 03:15 PM

I will gladly join in the booing. :D I hope to get to a game at Yankee Stadium some time next year, just because it's Yankee Stadium.

One good thing about the pink hats.

Most of them are hot. :D

Kerry Wood and Matt Clement as FA's. Think the Cubs want them back? :rolleyes: I wouldn't exactly be surprised if Clement has a good 2008, depending how far along he is in rehab. Wasn't there a chance he could have pitched for the Sox in September?
*slight aside, does Clement get a ring?

A) Williams was a lefty
2) NO ONE can hit like Ted Williams until they break .400. Not Bonds, not Manny, not Ortiz, not A-Rod, not Nomar (does anyone even think of him that way anymore?), NOBODY.

Courtesy of Buster Olney:

Name 5 players to lead the league in Runs, HR, and RBI...ever.

ever...in the history of baseball.

Alex Rodriguez-2007-54 HR, 156 RBI, 143 R

Roger Maris-1961-61 HR, 142 RBI, 132 R
Mickey Mantle-1956-52 HR, 130 RBI, 132 R
Johnny Mize-1947-51 HR, 138 RBI, 137 R
Ted Williams-1942-36 HR, 137 RBI, 141 R

Batting average aint everything. But Arod's .306 lifetime mark isn't exactly Dave Kingman territory either.

Is Williams a better pure average hitter? Sure, but he doesn't have Arod's power.

With 3 HR, ARod will tie Ted Williams for career HR, and he has about 350 fewer career AB.

Is Williams a better pure hitter? Sure, but people need to start realizing the caliber of player we're talking about here, if they don't already.

Again, ripped from Olney:

• Youngest ever to hit 300 HR, 400 HR, 450 HR, 500 HR
• 6 straight 40-HR seasons; 10 straight 30-HR seasons
• 3 50-HR seasons
• 2 MVPs (2003 & 2005) [add a 3rd for 2007 as soon as it's announced]

He can hold his own with any player ever, including Williams.

And sure Williams was a lefty, but that only makes his lead in average less important, due to the advantage it gives you.

And let's not pretend that hitting in Fenway your whole career isn't a huge advantage offensively.

I love Ted Williams, but let's be reasonable. The numbers that Arod is putting up are truly spectacular.

I don't like the guy, but you cannot argue with the numbers.