new cinema displays between now and december?

[coldmedina]

one of the rumor sites is reporting 5 "all new" products from mac between now and mid-december, does anyone think that one of them could be new cinema displays?

looking at the timeline of cinema display releases from 1998 until present, it seems the pattern is approx every two years for new display lines/major product upgrades. so if the 30" came out 03/06 and the 20"/23" came out in 08/06, that would potentially translate into new displays still not for another year or so.

but with all the recent price dropping on the displays, and the new product announcements, its got me wondering if maybe they might unveil new displays sooner than later...

[hollywoodmacguy]

one of the rumor sites is reporting 5 "all new" products from mac between now and mid-december, does anyone think that one of them could be new cinema displays?

looking at the timeline of cinema display releases from 1998 until present, it seems the pattern is approx every two years for new display lines/major product upgrades. so if the 30" came out 03/06 and the 20"/23" came out in 08/06, that would potentially translate into new displays still not for another year or so.

but with all the recent price dropping on the displays, and the new product announcements, its got me wondering if maybe they might unveil new displays sooner than later...

really it's been about three years since this line of displays was unveiled. you're right that there have been some (minor) spec tweaks since then, but that's it. this line is long overdue for an update and seems like the release of leopard would provide the ideal time to show off new displays...

fyi, there are a number of threads on this topic - new displays soon? - and you'll see that a lot of folks are waiting for everything from hdmi/hdcp/built-in isights to a complete redesign. i guess only steve knows for sure...

btw, which other site mentioned 5 new :apple: products between now and december? the main consensus generally seems to be that the macbook - and nothing else - will see a speed bump between now and christmas.

[twoodcc]

i would guess that if they are updated, it'd be in January of 08

[~Shard~]

I'm predicting a refresh to the Apple display line in January, perhaps at MWSF 08.

[Peace]

[snip]



fyi, there are a number of threads on this topic - new displays soon? - and you'll see that a lot of folks are waiting for everything from hdmi/hdcp/built-in isights to a complete redesign. i guess only steve knows for sure...



HDCP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdcp) is a content protection DRM that works over HDMI/DVI and is not a type of connection.

[hollywoodmacguy]

I'm predicting a refresh to the Apple display line in January, perhaps at MWSF 08.

I have also been hoping, if new displays don't show up at a special :apple: event to unveil Leopard this month, that they would show up at MWSF in January. But, I've held out little hope for the latter possibility since I've always thought of ACDs as more pro than consumer products.

Have any pro products ever come out at a MWSF? And, if not, I guess that means we might have to wait until next summer. :(

Of course, one reason for a delay in updating this line could be that LED backlit displays have been promised for all :apple: displays, but don't seem to exist in larger, e.g. 30", formats yet.

Anyone with other info or opinions on any of this, please LMK!

[~Shard~]

HDCP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdcp) is a content protection DRM that works over HDMI/DVI and is not a type of connection.

I don't believe he ever implied it was? :confused: He was simply listing features he could see making into the new displays - HDMI, HDCP, built-in iSights.

Regardless, thanks for providing info on DHCP in case anyone didn't know what it was.

[Peace]

I don't believe he ever implied it was? :confused: He was simply listing features he could see making into the new displays - HDMI, HDCP, built-in iSights.

Regardless, thanks for providing info on DHCP in case anyone didn't know what it was.

Your right but personally I don't consider HDCP content DRM to your TV or monitor something I would be looking forward to.
:)

[hollywoodmacguy]

I don't believe he ever implied it was? :confused: He was simply listing features he could see making into the new displays - HDMI, HDCP, built-in iSights.

Regardless, thanks for providing info on DHCP in case anyone didn't know what it was.

Agreed and thanks, too, for the DHCP information. I actually did not mean to make the implication that it is a type of connection. Was simply including it in a list of what others have listed elsewhere on their new ACD wishlists.

Does anyone else think it's curious that, although there are endless rumors about every possible tweak to the iPhone, Macbooks, etc, there are never (or certainly almost never) any peeps out of :apple: on updates or redesigns to this line?

[coldmedina]

thanks for all the feedback, good stuff :) although, i was convinced i was ready to march into my local apple store tonight after work and pull the trigger on the 23"... now i'm even more on the fence than i was before! :eek:

btw, which other site mentioned 5 new :apple: products between now and december? the main consensus generally seems to be that the macbook - and nothing else - will see a speed bump between now and christmas.

macosrumors.com (http://macosrumors.com/) is speculating it on their homepage, heres the exact rumormill:

"The grapevine is increasingly excited about a series of Apple Events between now and mid-December, introducing no less than five all-new products including at least one entirely new Mac product line -- almost certainly the much anticipated Macbook Nano."

vague, i know, but my unyielding optimism wants to read new cinema displays announced between those lines...

thanks again all!!

[hollywoodmacguy]

thanks for all the feedback, good stuff :) although, i was convinced i was ready to march into my local apple store tonight after work and pull the trigger on the 23"... now i'm even more on the fence than i was before! :eek:

vague, i know, but my unyielding optimism wants to read new cinema displays announced between those lines...

thanks again all!!


i don't know if this helps or makes fence-sitting seem like the best way to go for now... from the macrumors buyer's guide:

Product: LCDs
Recommendation: *Buy only if you need it - Approaching the end of a cycle*

Notes: *There has been some speculation that the most recent price drop doesn't represent a true update. If you click on the dates for the Apple LCD updates, you'll see that price drops are the primary form of LCD updates from Apple. The 30" model last received an increase in specification in March 2006 while the 20" and 23" remains unchanged since August 2006.

Last Release: April 04, 2007 [PRICE DROP ONLY - my edit]

Days Since Update: 192 (Avg = 230)

seems to me that if leopard is released 14 days from now (10/26), the days since update will then be 206 or less than 30 days from the Avg Update of 230. not that :apple:'s release schedule is set by a regular calendar, but u have to wonder if it's not worth waiting just a little bit longer... :rolleyes:

personally, i'm in the same boat and don't want to take the plunge only to have the line updated a month later. am waiting for leopard to get a mbp and want to get an ACD to complement it. personally, the absolute longest i will/can wait is MWSF keynote mid-january. the trigger will be pulled then for sure! :)

[coldmedina]

i don't know if this helps or makes fence-sitting seem like the best way to go for now... from the macrumors buyer's guide:

Product: LCDs
Recommendation: *Buy only if you need it - Approaching the end of a cycle*


well, that probably does it then. sounds like i'm waiting. i think i can make it until mid-jan :rolleyes:

figures, seeing how i was getting my heart totally set on one. well, its a good thing i suppose, because i'm really hoping they do something about this:

http://allforces.com/media/blogimages/mac/cinemadisplay-brick.jpg

which really makes me think of this:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/219/499679877_733fd127ea.jpg

;)

[hollywoodmacguy]

well, that probably does it then. sounds like i'm waiting. i think i can make it until mid-jan :rolleyes:

figures, seeing how i was getting my heart totally set on one. well, its a good thing i suppose, because i'm really hoping they do something about this:

;)

hilarious pics! as far as the waiting, i think the keynote at MWSF will be on january 14th or 15th, which is literally just 90 days away from now or 76 days after leopard is released (assuming that's 10/26). i say "just" even though that waiting will be excruciating... :rolleyes:

of course, the keynote could come and go with no display update at all, which would be a huge bummer, or we could get a nice surprise beforehand with leopard and/or if :apple: announces an update to the mac pro line and its displays (the ACDs)... fingers crossed that it's the latter! :)

[bluefishzoo]

I don't know if this helps, but I'm in the UK about to buy a 23" cinema display. Looking at all of the resellers here, most seem to be discounting (though not by much!) both the 23" and 30" displays. Could this mean end of life? Also with Leopard coming with Front Row built in, would it not make sense to have an IR built into the displays?

[hollywoodmacguy]

I don't know if this helps, but I'm in the UK about to buy a 23" cinema display. Looking at all of the resellers here, most seem to be discounting (though not by much!) both the 23" and 30" displays. Could this mean end of life? Also with Leopard coming with Front Row built in, would it not make sense to have an IR built into the displays?

that is interesting, indeed, about the UK discounts to the displays. will have to check around on this side of the pond to see if anything similar is happening here...

one other factor to consider when pondering whether or not to wait before picking up a new ACD is the statement :apple: made in may of this year about becoming greener and shifting to LED backlighting in all of its displays. here it is:

To eliminate mercury in our displays, we need to transition from fluorescent lamps to light-emitting diodes (LEDs) to illuminate the displays. Fortunately, all iPod displays already use LEDs for illumination, and therefore contain no mercury. We plan to introduce our first Macs with LED backlight technology in 2007. Our ability to completely eliminate fluorescent lamps in all of our displays depends on how fast the LCD industry can transition to LED backlighting for larger displays.

Apple plans to completely eliminate the use of arsenic in all of its displays by the end of 2008.

Apple plans to reduce and eventually eliminate the use of mercury by transitioning to LED backlighting for all displays when technically and economically feasible.



wondering if it has yet become "technically and economically feasible" to include LED backlighting on 20", 23" and 30" cinema displays? obviously :apple: has introduced these new displays in 15" MBPs. but, since they still have not introduced them in either the 17" MBP or either of the new iMacs (20" or 24"), just wondering if it's overly optimistic to think new ACDs with these displays would come out while smaller displays in other lines still remain unchanged? and, just as important, would :apple: redesign/update this line (the hardware) without updating the displays - as promised - and then have to update them later?

on balance, seems kind of unlikely, since they almost never touch this line, that they would do anything other than offer another (welcome!) price drop or perhaps a minor spec bump before issuing a redesign to this product line when the new LED backlit displays are feasible. anyway, just my humble opinion based on lots of over-thinking with insufficient hard information! ;)

[msharp]

i would guess that if they are updated, it'd be in January of 08

I would guess a price drop instead of a refresh.

Just look at what Apple did lately:
iPhone: $200 price drop;
Logic Studio, $500 price drop with enhancement!! (it was sold at $999 I believe and now it's $499 with full sound library!)

Now what? Apple is becoming more aggressive, however their Cinema displays are sold 3 times higher than others.

[mrfaize]

I'm in the UK and thinking of replacing my 19" Formac with a 23" ACD. I'd wait a while to see what's around the corner.

BUT.... do you think the new screens (if any) would be like the iMac screens e.g. shiny/glossy surface?

How much has the priced dropped recently (most interested in the UK)
Apple Store UK has them at £599 ($1200) but others have at £575 ($1150) all prices include tax.

Thanks

[RaceTripper]

I'm now thinking I may just hold out until Leopard ships on the 26th. If Apple has no new announcements I may get a Dell or Samsung 24" or 27" display. I can't wait much longer to get a display. It's getting too hard on my eyes to use a laptop display all the time.

[Martin C]

BUT.... do you think the new screens (if any) would be like the iMac screens e.g. shiny/glossy surface?
Doubtful in my mind seeing as the ACD's are supposed to be professional displays. Many professionals require matte screens, so I don't think that it will change.

A black aluminum ACD would be cool.

[hollywoodmacguy]

given that, at least so far, there has been no announcement of an :apple: event around the leopard release, my hopes for redesigned/refreshed cinema displays before december is fading a bit...

according to the buyer's guide, a couple of weeks after leopard comes out we'll go beyond the average period between updates. that being the case, perhaps we'll get another (admittedly welcome) price drop. and, lately, that has come to represent a refresh to this line. :rolleyes:

[nater.]

Not sure if it even really matters - but check out Apple's store.

On the top of the page they have all their products - the displays are not showing...maybe they are updating them soon. And by keeping them off the main store page, less people will buy them, less people will complain like they did with the iphone pricing?

Just a thought...

[mrfaize]

Not sure if it even really matters - but check out Apple's store.

On the top of the page they have all their products - the displays are not showing...maybe they are updating them soon.
Just a thought...

I noticed this last night when I went onto the US store by mistake. The UK store still shows them (obviously a much smaller market though). Got me wondering.... but probably nothing.

Will definately wait until the 26th and see if anything happens.

[supercooled]

Here's a pure hypothetical for you guys. What if they add an iSight into the new models; will this add an extra USB cable dangling along with the DVI? I'm assuming the DVI can't drive the iSight along with the digital signal, but I'm not technically inclined to know.

USB ports are so sparse as is, I don't know if it's a good idea. I can personally live without the iSight.

[Feverish Flux]

42-inchers coming? (http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/18/lg-philips-announce-0-78-inch-ultra-slim-42-inch-lcd-availabl/)

[mrfaize]

Here's a pure hypothetical for you guys. What if they add an iSight into the new models; will this add an extra USB cable dangling along with the DVI? I'm assuming the DVI can't drive the iSight along with the digital signal, but I'm not technically inclined to know.

USB ports are so sparse as is, I don't know if it's a good idea. I can personally live without the iSight.

The current ACD have USB sockets onboard but I think there is a single cable out of the back of the ACD to a break-out-box where the cables split (DVI USB etc) to allow them to be plugged into the computer. I guess an i-Sight could be driven through the same cable or slightly modified to add it inside. I don't think there would be a separate cable.

Just my 2 cents.

[hollywoodmacguy]

Here's a pure hypothetical for you guys. What if they add an iSight into the new models; will this add an extra USB cable dangling along with the DVI? I'm assuming the DVI can't drive the iSight along with the digital signal, but I'm not technically inclined to know.

Good question and I'm not technically savvy enough to know the answer. I do know that a lot of folks who have been patiently (and some not so patiently!) waiting for new displays are hoping for - and expecting - built in iSights, especially since :apple: stopped selling external iSights. Laptops and iMacs have this feature built in now, so seems like it would be logical to do the same for Mac Pro users (and others who use ACDs).

42-inchers coming? (http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/18/lg-philips-announce-0-78-inch-ultra-slim-42-inch-lcd-availabl/)

These screens look incredible. Notice, however, that they are specifically not going to be LED backlit, which would seem to keep them out of the running for ACDs since Steve has promised that :apple: will become greener over the next year by making all of its displays LED backlit. That said, there has been a lot of speculation in other threads that, when the line is finally updated, there will be a new model larger than the current 30"...

[machatch]

one of the rumor sites is reporting 5 "all new" products from mac between now and mid-december, does anyone think that one of them could be new cinema displays?

looking at the timeline of cinema display releases from 1998 until present, it seems the pattern is approx every two years for new display lines/major product upgrades. so if the 30" came out 03/06 and the 20"/23" came out in 08/06, that would potentially translate into new displays still not for another year or so.

but with all the recent price dropping on the displays, and the new product announcements, its got me wondering if maybe they might unveil new displays sooner than later...


Hate to bring it to you but the current mac displays such totally.Let's take the "cool"(yeahh its cool but outdated and sucky) 30 inc apple cinema(14ms real time? ore grey to grey?) display compare it with -(will not mention del UltraSharp 3007 cause it sucks to:))
- Samsung SyncMaster 305T specs:6 ms.dvi.Bether colours then apple and dell.dvi -
Cons:It dont have hdmi meaning you can't play xbox360, ps3,ore other hd-dvd resourches without a expensive hdmate from gef 300$.That same problem have the dells and apple. look at - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2071695,00.asp
and
http://www.amazon.com/HD-Mate-Scaler/dp/B000PU49KM/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1614812-2713444?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1192859309&sr=8-1

- HP LP3065 specs:6 ms 12ms typically.3xdvi.1000:1 contrast 300:1 brightness cons:dont have hdmi.bad brightness contrast compared to apple 30 inch 400:1)??if thats a problem..

- Samsung Samsung 275T(widescreen) specs:6ms dvi.hdcp for compute.s video.dvi.RGB.
Cons:dont have hdmi.+++:You can use for consols,other hd-dvd stuff via s cabel,hdcp(?),rgb.

- ViewSonic’s 28” VX2835wm specs:3 ms!!.Anti-glare.dvi.s-cabel.rgb.HDMI!! -(HDMI with HDCP input) OnView® controls for superior screen adjustability.500cd/m² brightness (typ.) and 800:1 contrast ratio.Speakers 2 x 3watt -

cons:It's not apple:).design?
++:it's the only big lcd screen for computer(not tv) i know of(27.5 not 30 inch) who supourts hdmi signals if you plan to use it besides computing.Pluss it's very cheap compare to the other's(but it's not a complete 30 inch)


The apple cinma display it's like a old dinosaur it's just "need to die" so the next lineup of cinemadisplays can breath
(led?=unlikely think of the price of 30 inc led and the response time in led is not good on big screens on what i have heard )
Maybe they are smart and include 2 hdmi.
And isight and good speakers.

I think they do have the tecnology and the money to put it out now in nowember but with Apple it allways have to be spectacular.Remember they had the first 30 inch.So maybe steve jobs it's up to something flashy before chritmas to reveal - something for the next level..
I'm currently waiting for a new mackbookpro to arrive and a new apple cinema display would be nice!with leds....(lol that will cost 20000$$(??) look just at the sony leds tv's 70 inch to 30000$ dollars ore somethin...

Note:all specs in lcd screen are note mentioned just the important ones to compare..

[machatch]

one of the rumor sites is reporting 5 "all new" products from mac between now and mid-december, does anyone think that one of them could be new cinema displays?

looking at the timeline of cinema display releases from 1998 until present, it seems the pattern is approx every two years for new display lines/major product upgrades. so if the 30" came out 03/06 and the 20"/23" came out in 08/06, that would potentially translate into new displays still not for another year or so.

but with all the recent price dropping on the displays, and the new product announcements, its got me wondering if maybe they might unveil new displays sooner than later...


Hate to bring it to you but the current mac displays such totally.Let's take the "cool"(yeahh its cool but outdated and sucky) 30 inc apple cinema(14ms real time? ore grey to grey?) display compare it with -(will not mention del UltraSharp 3007 cause it sucks to:))
- Samsung SyncMaster 305T specs:6 ms.dvi.Bether colours then apple and dell.dvi -
Cons:It dont have hdmi meaning you can't play xbox360, ps3,ore other hd-dvd resourches without a expensive hdmate from gef 300$.That same problem have the dells and apple. look at - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2071695,00.asp
and
http://www.amazon.com/HD-Mate-Scaler/dp/B000PU49KM/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1614812-2713444?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1192859309&sr=8-1

- HP LP3065 specs:6 ms 12ms typically.3xdvi.1000:1 contrast 300:1 brightness cons:dont have hdmi.bad brightness contrast compared to apple 30 inch 400:1)??if thats a problem..

- Samsung Samsung 275T(widescreen) specs:6ms dvi.hdcp for compute.s video.dvi.RGB.
Cons:dont have hdmi.+++:You can use for consols,other hd-dvd stuff via s cabel,hdcp(?),rgb.

- ViewSonic’s 28” VX2835wm specs:3 ms!!.Anti-glare.dvi.s-cabel.rgb.HDMI!! -(HDMI with HDCP input) OnView® controls for superior screen adjustability.500cd/m² brightness (typ.) and 800:1 contrast ratio.Speakers 2 x 3watt -

cons:It's not apple:).design?
++:it's the only big lcd screen for computer(not tv) i know of(27.5 not 30 inch) who supourts hdmi signals if you plan to use it besides computing.Pluss it's very cheap compare to the other's(but it's not a complete 30 inch)


The apple cinma display it's like a old dinosaur it's just "need to die" so the next lineup of cinemadisplays can breath
(led?=unlikely think of the price of 30 inc led and the response time in led is not good on big screens on what i have heard )
Maybe they are smart and include 2 hdmi.
And isight and good speakers.

I think they do have the tecnology and the money to put it out now in nowember but with Apple it allways have to be spectacular.Remember they had the first 30 inch.So maybe steve jobs it's up to something flashy before christmas to reveal - something for the next level..
I'm currently waiting for a new mackbookpro to arrive and a new apple cinema display would be nice!with leds....(lol that will cost 20000$$(??) look just at the sony leds tv's 70 inch to 30000$ dollars ore somethin...

Note:all specs in lcd screen are note mentioned just the important ones to compare..

[Lesser Evets]

42" screens?

Yikes.


Though I did think the 30" was ridiculous and now find it 'just right'. But, how long until a 60"?? An 80"? How big is enough??

I think an option of iSight built in or not would be an excellent choice if Apple will not be making external iSights anymore. I love my old iSight, but it hangs upside down, and I would like Apple to include software to flip the image, OR provide them built into monitors. Why should we need to buy an iMac to use video chat?

[RaceTripper]

You're just judging these from a single criteria of repsonse time. That's fine for gaming maybe, but that's not the only criteria. Indeed you could get a fast panel, and it might be crap on many other levels.

For example, I could care less about gaming on my monitor, but I want something that can be color calibrated accurately, have color consistency edge to edge, and have a good wide viewing angle. Different LCDs have different types of panels, and some (like Dell) play roulette with the panel type you get.

In addition to work, I want to use mine for my hobby of motorsports photography. I also don't care about a ton of inputs and outputs. The choice of color media pros is an S-IPS panel. That's what the ACDs have. Most other LCDs that have S-IPS panels are even more expensive than the ACDs.

Response time is just one criteria and isn't even important for some applications. It's not a spec high in importance to me.

After some research I'm back to considering the ACD, and I will probably get the 23" this week if Apple doesn't announce something else.

So I think to judge the Apple displays the way you do is misguided and misinformed. They aren't the best, but if you want to work with color, they are still a very good choice. I frequent a photographer forum, and many of the members (even PC users) who don't want to spring for a fully professional display (double the cost or so of a ACD) go with the ACD.

[psychofreak]

Though I did think the 30" was ridiculous and now find it 'just right'. But, how long until a 60"?? An 80"? How big is enough??

I think an option of iSight built in or not would be an excellent choice if Apple will not be making external iSights anymore. I love my old iSight, but it hangs upside down, and I would like Apple to include software to flip the image, OR provide them built into monitors. Why should we need to buy an iMac to use video chat?

Many people use dual-30"ers...unfortunately the thickness of the edges makes it a bit annoying...Apple need to make bigger displays, or greatly reduce the border thickness :)

[machatch]

:)[QUOTE=RaceTripper;4357522]You're just judging these from a single criteria of repsonse time. That's fine for gaming maybe, but that's not the only criteria. Indeed you could get a fast panel, and it might be crap on many other levels.


Hi!i wrote mainly for the 30 inches..(even though the specs,colour for the 20-23 inches can be beat by other producers up to date).
No i wrote not just response time. look here as stated in what i wrote.http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2071695,00.asp

And compare here:http://www.pcmag.com/compare_products/0,1943,,00.asp?a=196193,140686,168242&pt=0&sid=26265

That explains alot:)

And by the way apple is a future looking company so relax new Apple cinema will come soon:)

Remember that the apple display is near 3 years old.So it's not strange it's outdated.But yes the design in apple screen are cool.Great colours. But lcd's screens evolve alot in 3 years dont you think?And panels evolve too.
And i'm not just think about gaming.
:cool:

And by the way response time is important for moviewatching and video-editing to..:)

[devman]

figures, seeing how i was getting my heart totally set on one. well, its a good thing i suppose, because i'm really hoping they do something about this:

(images deleted)

;)

totally agree. That brick and the short DVI cord for it is a poor design when connecting a laptop.

Many people use dual-30"ers...unfortunately the thickness of the edges makes it a bit annoying...Apple need to make bigger displays, or greatly reduce the border thickness :)

I love my ACDs and I totally agree with this too.

[RaceTripper]

:)[QUOTE=RaceTripper;4357522]You're just judging these from a single criteria of repsonse time. That's fine for gaming maybe, but that's not the only criteria. Indeed you could get a fast panel, and it might be crap on many other levels.


Hi!i wrote mainly for the 30 inches..(even though the specs,colour for the 20-23 inches can be beat by other producers up to date).
No i wrote not just response time. look here as stated in what i wrote.http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2071695,00.asp

And compare here:http://www.pcmag.com/compare_products/0,1943,,00.asp?a=196193,140686,168242&pt=0&sid=26265

That explains alot:)

And by the way apple is a future looking company so relax new Apple cinema will come soon:)

Remember that the apple display is near 3 years old.So it's not strange it's outdated.But yes the design in apple screen are cool.Great colours. But lcd's screens evolve alot in 3 years dont you think?And panels evolve too.
And i'm not just think about gaming.
:cool:

And by the way response time is important for moviewatching and video-editing to..:)I agree the ACDs are due for a refresh, but the current ones aren't using panels from years ago. They use modern (and expensive) S-IPS panels. You don't really believe Apple is using panels from 3 years ago do you? ACDs aren't the best, but you can do a lot worse.

My point about response time is that there are uses of LCDs where it just isn't as important. 16 ms is good enough for many applications that aren't gaming/video.

If the ACD refresh is going to happen in the next month or so, I may wait. Otherwise I will just get a current 23" model soon. It's possible we won't see any before next year if Apple is sticking to it's green policy. They may not be ready with LED backlit screens for a while, so the current line could continue for some months more.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1039222

[cube]

Your right but personally I don't consider HDCP content DRM to your TV or monitor something I would be looking forward to.
:)


In general, that a monitor supports DHCP *is* something to look forward to. You're protecting yourself from fascist tecnologies like Blu-ray, HD DVD, and Vista.

Now, if an Apple monitor had this, it would be bad, because it would mean they would also bend over and turn the Mac into a fascist platform, too (which it actually already is, as per region-locked DVD drives).

There's no point waiting for new expensive and closed monitors from Apple. There's better and cheaper stuff out there.

[machatch]

Racetripper wrote:

My point about response time is that there are uses of LCDs where it just isn't as important. 16 ms is good enough for many applications that aren't gaming/video.

If the ACD refresh is going to happen in the next month or so, I may wait. Otherwise I will just get a current 23" model soon. It's possible we won't see any before next year if Apple is sticking to it's green policy. They may not be ready with LED backlit screens for a while, so the current line could continue for some months more.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1039222[/QUOTE]

Yeah they have tweaked the apple cinema displays.So it's not "old".Old is relative it's just that apple cinema display - even if it is a good quality panel it's still outdated.And the 30 inch is a little thick like someone mentioned.
And it's bout time for them to upgrade the display after allmost 3 years.But like allways when you produce a new product the technology is costly, specially when you're pointing out at good quality panel with the standards changing - if thats what apple doe.
..But i feel like nows the perfect time to get a shocking good news with new apple cinemas:)With the new macs rumord to come
And it would be strange if they don't include it with hdmi - compare to the standars today vs 2004 standards in lcd screens.
And if i was to chose today between the apple 30 inch vs the others i will rather choose the samsung 30ft ore the vievsonic - http://www.viewsoniceurope.com/no/Products/LCDX/VX2835wm.htm
simple because it's bether..If you think otherwise in my opinion you would be naiv ore a die hard apple fan:p;)
And i think it's bether solutions today regarding the other display (not in design):rolleyes:.
Each taste and needs to each his one thats all i say..But i am waiting for new apple display until desember - januar..
peace:)

[machatch]

In general, that a monitor supports DHCP *is* something to look forward to. You're protecting yourself from fascist tecnologies like Blu-ray, HD DVD, and Vista.

Now, if an Apple monitor had this, it would be bad, because it would mean they would also bend over and turn the Mac into a fascist platform, too (which it actually already is, as per region-locked DVD drives).

There's no point waiting for new expensive and closed monitors from Apple. There's better and cheaper stuff out there.


Yeahh.I see you're point..But who knows they could turn up with something soon:)..

[hollywoodmacguy]

since :apple: has publicly stated that it's going greener with all new displays and already has with the smaller MBPs, am wondering whether there are any manufacturers who are currently making 30" LED backlit displays? given how infrequently :apple: updates/refreshes/redesigns the ACD line, seems like they won't put out new displays til the appropriate size displays are available. can't see them just refreshing other specs without redoing the displays because of the new green policy. feels like there will be one big change/redesign...

anyone know about this? or know where you can go for more info?

[psychofreak]

They haven't even got LED 17" MBPs...30" LED isn't going to happen that soon...

[cube]

Samsung XL30 is LED backlit.

[hollywoodmacguy]

Samsung XL30 is LED backlit.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/samsungs-xl-30-led-backlit-30-inch-monitor/

Thanks, cube. Just looked it up and notice that a lot of folks don't like its 4:3 orientation, but it is def LED backlit so they do exist. And doesn't :apple: get some displays from Samsung?

[RaceTripper]

http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/samsungs-xl-30-led-backlit-30-inch-monitor/

Thanks, cube. Just looked it up and notice that a lot of folks don't like its 4:3 orientation, but it is def LED backlit so they do exist. And doesn't :apple: get some displays from Samsung?
Here's some other info on the Samsung 30" LED lit display. It paints a different picture with a 2560 x 1600 (16:10) resolution.

Note that it is a S-PVA – not a S-IPS – panel.

Edit: Oops, forgot the link.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news.htm#samsung_xl30

[RaceTripper]

I decided to quit obsessing about the whole thing and bought a 23" ACD.

Worse case scenario, they introduce something really better at a similar price in the next two weeks, then I return my 23" ACD for a $80 hit. Otherwise, they introduce something later, and if I like it enough, I sell my 23" and get it, or not. But at least I have something now that I can be happy with, and I can stop worrying about it. :)

When I went to buy it, I saw the Dell 2407 in a kiosk in the mall. It looked OK, but not as nice as the ACD. The Dell salesperson tried to tell me all the Apple store employees come down and buy the Dell. Yeah right!

[machatch]

http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/samsungs-xl-30-led-backlit-30-inch-monitor/

Thanks, cube. Just looked it up and notice that a lot of folks don't like its 4:3 orientation, but it is def LED backlit so they do exist. And doesn't :apple: get some displays from Samsung?

By the way that screen is coming in june..Maybe the same time as apple cinema led?hmm..
the specs where revealed CeBIT - the biggest trade show for the ICT in Hannover,Germany.
The specs where 2560 x 1600 (WQXGA),respons time 6ms
i also read hat the samsung xl20 has bin in japan for a long time.
The priceinfo is not yet to come..it says the screen is pointed at the proffesonial markey who knows..

[machatch]

http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/samsungs-xl-30-led-backlit-30-inch-monitor/

Thanks, cube. Just looked it up and notice that a lot of folks don't like its 4:3 orientation, but it is def LED backlit so they do exist. And doesn't :apple: get some displays from Samsung?

By the way that screen is coming in june..Maybe the same time as apple cinema led?hmm..
the specs where revealed CeBIT - the biggest trade show for the ICT in Hannover,Germany.
The specs where 2560 x 1600 (WQXGA),respons time 6ms
i also read hat the samsung xl20 has bin in japan for a long time.
The priceinfo is not yet to come..it says the screen is pointed at the proffesonial marked who knows..

[machatch]

I decided to quit obsessing about the whole thing and bought a 23" ACD.


When I went to buy it, I saw the Dell 2407 in a kiosk in the mall. It looked OK, but not as nice as the ACD. The Dell salesperson tried to tell me all the Apple store employees come down and buy the Dell. Yeah right!


Good choice!;)lafter reading about this led thing coming in june(samsungxl30)..it' was a smart move..if only i could tell the future for acd:o
Yeah the dell person tried to lure you..:)

[dante@sisna.com]

So much rubbish in this thread!

People love to beat on Apple's monitors as being outdated. They site lack of contrast, response time, use of older LCD technology, lack of inputs, price, etc.

What they fail to realize is this: the 23" and 30" LCD's are aimed at graphics, print, multimedia and video professionals. For these markets, these monitor excel in a few key areas: 1) Stable, predictable Delta (change) between pixels of related or difference colors, 2) Factory Built SWOP certified profiles work WITH OS X to translate colors from OS to Video Card to Monitor and back to output device (ie Printer, Video, etc) with reliable SWOP or broadcast results.

ACD's may not have the Sizzle, but they have the key features real pros want: Predictability, and, Controlled Color Gamut between corresponding pixels for superior color editing and retouching.

Personally, I do not see an ACD refresh until Summer 2008.

Why?

I do not believe CCFL or LED technology is stable enough for professional graphics, print, multimedia and video professionals. The gamuts are wild, like the wild west, the contrast and brightness, while great are not suited towards these professional markets without third party calibration -- and when this calibration is done, these new fangled monitors wind up displaying more like the current ACD's.

I could see apple releasing a "consumer" monitor for the first time, real soon, based on LED technology and more resembling a dell, samsung or HP. But make no mistake, real pros will stay away from this one until the technology is dialed in for pro work in graphics, print, multimedia and video.

Dante

PS-- I do color management every day for a living.

[cube]

http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/samsungs-xl-30-led-backlit-30-inch-monitor/

Thanks, cube. Just looked it up and notice that a lot of folks don't like its 4:3 orientation, but it is def LED backlit so they do exist. And doesn't :apple: get some displays from Samsung?

It's not 4:3

http://monitor.samsung.de/article.asp?artid=2AA18C62-B937-49ED-8741-E3C3369D35F3

It comes in January, not June.

It includes a Gretag MacBeth calibrator.

[machatch]

It's not 4:3

http://monitor.samsung.de/article.asp?artid=2AA18C62-B937-49ED-8741-E3C3369D35F3

It comes in January, not June.

It includes a Gretag MacBeth calibrator.

Yes.it comes in january in deutschland.Not the Us

[machatch]

So much rubbish in this thread!

People love to beat on Apple's monitors as being outdated. They site lack of contrast, response time, use of older LCD technology, lack of inputs, price, etc.

What they fail to realize is this: the 23" and 30" LCD's are aimed at graphics, print, multimedia and video professionals. For these markets, these monitor excel in a few key areas: 1) Stable, predictable Delta (change) between pixels of related or difference colors, 2) Factory Built SWOP certified profiles work WITH OS X to translate colors from OS to Video Card to Monitor and back to output device (ie Printer, Video, etc) with reliable SWOP or broadcast results.

ACD's may not have the Sizzle, but they have the key features real pros want: Predictability, and, Controlled Color Gamut between corresponding pixels for superior color editing and retouching.

Personally, I do not see an ACD refresh until Summer 2008.

Why?

I do not believe CCFL or LED technology is stable enough for professional graphics, print, multimedia and video professionals. The gamuts are wild, like the wild west, the contrast and brightness, while great are not suited towards these professional markets without third party calibration -- and when this calibration is done, these new fangled monitors wind up displaying more like the current ACD's.

I could see apple releasing a "consumer" monitor for the first time, real soon, based on LED technology and more resembling a dell, samsung or HP. But make no mistake, real pros will stay away from this one until the technology is dialed in for pro work in graphics, print, multimedia and video.

Dante

PS-- I do color management every day for a living.

If "pro" is a excuse for the screen is outdated and it's -technically impossible to be bether then up to date screens - no they want release any of that stuff.sorry..haha..:)..fanboy...
Then i rather chose "consumer"..-lol...who knows when the new screens arrive a good tip is before christhmas matching the new mac pros..The summer is to late..I just hope they speed up/cange the macbook pro too:cool:

[cube]

It is unknown when the XL30 will be released in the US. If it is like with hard drives, it could be a couple of months later.

LG optical drives also seemed to be available in Europe before USA.

[machatch]

It is unknown when the XL30 will be released in the US. If it is like with hard drives, it could be a couple of months later.

LG optical drives also seemed to be available in Europe before USA.

hmm.Hope the apple cinemas come soon:)But just like one said dident Apple bought up a chunk of shares in samsung displays couple of years of go?
So it's possible they release just in time with samsung ore before.Thats a hot tip.
:p;)

[cube]

That was only $100m in 1999.

[FireArse]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to add that all 3 displays on the UK Apple Store are out of stock (when you try buy them seperately from a unit)

I think we'll get new ones pretty soon.

F

[dante@sisna.com]

If "pro" is a excuse for the screen is outdated and it's -technically impossible to be bether then up to date screens - no they want release any of that stuff.sorry..haha..:)..fanboy...
Then i rather chose "consumer"..-lol...who knows when the new screens arrive a good tip is before christhmas matching the new mac pros..The summer is to late..I just hope they speed up/cange the macbook pro too:cool:

First off, if you want to throw darts at a pro, then please at least learn to spell and type.

Second, "Being a Pro," is not an excuse for choosing to buy a screen that lacks some "current" features in exchange for a tool that does a better job at executing tasks that professionals use to make a living and to satisfy clients.

No "Fanboy," here, just an experienced, smart, professional in print, web and multimedia.

Get the facts, use your brain to learn (would not hurt your credibility to learn to spell and type), and then come back to this discussion.

Repeat and return, my consumer friend.

Dante

[RaceTripper]

First off, if you want to throw darts at a pro, then please at least learn to spell and type.

Second, "Being a Pro," is not an excuse for choosing to buy a screen that lacks some "current" features in exchange for a tool that does a better job at executing tasks that professionals use to make a living and to satisfy clients.

No "Fanboy," here, just an experienced, smart, professional in print, web and multimedia.

Get the facts, use your brain to learn (would not hurt your credibility to learn to spell and type), and then come back to this discussion.

Repeat and return, my consumer friend.

Dante+1

I tried to explain that the cheaper (TN) panels with fast response times are of interest mostly to gamers and others displaying motion video, and not to those interested in color accuracy and print media. But I don't think I got very far.

Meanwhile, I really love my ACD so far. Calibrated with Spyder2 and my photos look great on screen.

[machatch]

First off, if you want to throw darts at a pro, then please at least learn to spell and type.

Second, "Being a Pro," is not an excuse for choosing to buy a screen that lacks some "current" features in exchange for a tool that does a better job at executing tasks that professionals use to make a living and to satisfy clients.

No "Fanboy," here, just an experienced, smart, professional in print, web and multimedia.

Get the facts, use your brain to learn (would not hurt your credibility to learn to spell and type), and then come back to this discussion.

Repeat and return, my consumer friend.

Dante

How you regard a pro does not sound right.It's like you telling me evryone can be a pro regarding the eye of the beholder.I can say i do this and this for living jadajadajada...
And if that so i'm a pro too!!:p.so what facts are you talking about? if you want to buy that display i'm not holding ya!!Just buy it.I wont buy beacuse its outdated and there are bether option in the market right now(maybe not designwise) and new cinemas are coming soon.
yeajjh..:)
Evryone is entitled to have their one opinion. If you can't respect that have can i respect you?.;)
Nice talking to you "pro".Like pro to pro:):p

[machatch]

That was only $100m in 1999.

100 mill in 1999 can grow big to current 2007..:)

[cube]

It was investment in a plant, not shares. That plant is old by now.

[machatch]

It was investment in a plant, not shares. That plant is old by now.

ok:rolleyes::)

[RUFiO795]

Something is definitely up....

Someone mentioned at the beginning of this thread that the Displays were no longer graphically featured on the Apple Store page. It's almost like they've hidden Displays as much as possible, though: not only is that graphic link gone, the Displays text link on the sidebar is gone, as are any links from other relevant Apple products (like the Mac Mini).

These mysterious disappearances plus the apparent lack of availability in the UK online store and US retailers (Best Buy, etc.) make it pretty clear that Apple is at the very least interacting with their beloved but outdated displays in some manner....Whether that's a price drop or a total overhaul remains to be seen, but I suspect that if it were a price drop they would have left the Displays prominently featured right up until the drop occurred. I wouldn't be too surprised if they went ahead and released new non-LED displays now and then quietly updated the new model to LED when it becomes technologically feasible. We'll see.

[hollywoodmacguy]

Something is definitely up....

Someone mentioned at the beginning of this thread that the Displays were no longer graphically featured on the Apple Store page. It's almost like they've hidden Displays as much as possible, though: not only is that graphic link gone, the Displays text link on the sidebar is gone, as are any links from other relevant Apple products (like the Mac Mini).

These mysterious disappearances plus the apparent lack of availability in the UK online store and US retailers (Best Buy, etc.) make it pretty clear that Apple is at the very least interacting with their beloved but outdated displays in some manner....Whether that's a price drop or a total overhaul remains to be seen, but I suspect that if it were a price drop they would have left the Displays prominently featured right up until the drop occurred. I wouldn't be too surprised if they went ahead and released new non-LED displays now and then quietly updated the new model to LED when it becomes technologically feasible. We'll see.

Very interesting analysis. I have noticed that it has been less obvious on the US site how to navigate to the display page. The displays have been listed as a "Staff Pick" though recently and not sure if/what that could mean, other than it was just this product line's time to be rotated onto that page.

What I find most interesting is your thought that :apple: might actually release a new non-LED display now and then update later. I couldn't see them doing this in 2 stages, but it does kind of make sense. Especially if it's true that new Mac Pros are coming. Doesn't it seem like a new Mac Pro would be complemented by a new ACD?

[sananda]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to add that all 3 displays on the UK Apple Store are out of stock (when you try buy them seperately from a unit)

I think we'll get new ones pretty soon.

F

all are available now.

[hollywoodmacguy]

So, if there is no update to the cinema displays with Leopard (and could there be a better way to showcase the new OS than on a new display?) or with the much-rumored new Mac Pro, was wondering if then we might next have the opportunity to see new ACDs at MWSF in January?

Question: since these displays are considered pro products and MWSF is a consumer event, is it completely unlikely that :apple: would unveil them at that event? Or, put another way, has :apple: ever released a new/refreshed pro line at MWSF?

If not, am guessing that the next time that would be obvious/logical would be at the developer's conference in June... Which seems a LONG time to wait!

[psychofreak]

It is very possible, especially because Apple has not stuck to the names of their conferences recently...

[hollywoodmacguy]

It is very possible, especially because Apple has not stuck to the names of their conferences recently...

Thanks, that's encouraging information. Perhaps all hope is not lost for January then if October/November is a bust...

Amazing that there are almost never any rumors about this product line and endless rumors about almost all the rest! :rolleyes:

[mrfaize]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to add that all 3 displays on the UK Apple Store are out of stock (when you try buy them seperately from a unit)

F

Where do you see this? When I look all three are showing ready to ship 24 hours right up to the point after entering payment details it say "Place order". Do you see this after you actually order one?

[machatch]

Very interesting analysis. I have noticed that it has been less obvious on the US site how to navigate to the display page. The displays have been listed as a "Staff Pick" though recently and not sure if/what that could mean, other than it was just this product line's time to be rotated onto that page.

What I find most interesting is your thought that :apple: might actually release a new non-LED display now and then update later. I couldn't see them doing this in 2 stages, but it does kind of make sense. Especially if it's true that new Mac Pros are coming. Doesn't it seem like a new Mac Pro would be complemented by a new ACD?


Yeah.thats true.If you say A you got to say b.
They will release a new display. But not without led's if you allready have seen this(oLd news) - http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/samsungs-xl-30-led-backlit-30-inch-monitor
ore regarding leds for new macbook pros http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/new-displays/samsung-develops-new-169-lcds-for-notebook-one-with-white-led-backlighting-311731.php